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| 14:07 | silbe | dfarning_afk: who's going to lead the meeting today? |
| 14:08 | m_anish | meeting happening today? |
| 14:08 | meeting | m_anish: Error: "happening" is not a valid command. |
| 14:08 | m_anish | is there a meeting happening today? |
| 14:08 | Nubae | mirror mirror who is the most beautiful off them all? ;-) |
| 14:10 | m_anish | carries on watching the cricket world cup :-) |
| 14:11 | Nubae | refrains from knocking it... |
| 14:11 | tch | and I am half sleep |
| 14:12 | m_anish | tch, that means you're half awake (as well) :P |
| 14:13 | tch | i could be half sleep half deep sleep |
| 14:13 | lol | |
| 14:16 | m_anish | tch, my intel processor is half asleep as well, every time I plug in the dell charger (which doesn't charge because of a broken 1wire data line), the frequency instantly drops from 2 x 2GHz to 2 x 800MHz |
| 14:17 | silbe | m_anish: that's what you get for not using an XO :-P |
| 14:17 | Nubae | now.... meeting or not meeting.... that is the question? |
| 14:18 | m_anish | silbe, its still better than 1 x 400MHz and allows me to stream cricket matches |
| 14:18 | silbe | m_anish: don't you have an XO-1.5? |
| 14:18 | m_anish | silbe, ya |
| 14:18 | silbe, well that works as well | |
| 14:18 | anyone wanna lead today's meeting? | |
| 14:19 | silbe | m_anish: that's 1GHz. Sufficient for most tasks, except fancy non-accelerated modern video codecs. |
| 14:19 | m_anish | silbe, heh |
| 14:21 | silbe | and those codecs even cause trouble on my dual core desktop if the resolution is high enough... All just because graphics chipset vendors do good video acceleration only in the Windows drivers :-/ |
| 14:21 | m_anish | wonders how many processor cycles has the world already wasted because of them ... maybe that's the real cause of global warming |
| 14:22 | silbe | m_anish: computers (especially PCs) definitely play their part in it... |
| 14:23 | Green IT is fancy and at least partially a marketing trick, but definitely a good idea overall. | |
| 14:23 | dogi | silbe, which meeting is supposed to be |
| 14:23 | silbe | dogi: Activity Central |
| 14:23 | dogi | ohhh |
| 14:24 | silbe | meeting commands |
| 14:24 | meeting | silbe: action, add, addchair, alert, announce, announce add, announce list, announce remove, any, apply, apropos, at, author, ban add, ban list, ban remove, capabilities, capability add, capability list, capability remove, capability set, capability setdefault, capability unset, change, changename, channel, channels, channelstats, cmd, command, commands, config, connect, contributors, cpu, ctime, cycle, default, (3 more messages) |
| 14:24 | silbe | meeting more |
| 14:24 | meeting | silbe: defaultcapability, defaultplugin, dehalfop, deletemeeting, deop, devoice, dict, dictionaries, disable, disconnect, doctype, driver, echo, elapsed, enable, export, fetch, fit, flush, get, ghost, halfop, headers, help, hostmask, hostmask add, hostmask list, hostmask remove, identify, ignore, ignore add, ignore list, ignore remove, info, insert, invite, ircquote, join, kban, key, kick, langs, last, latency, (2 more messages) |
| 14:24 | silbe | meeting more |
| 14:24 | meeting | silbe: limit, list, listmeetings, ln, load, lobotomy add, lobotomy list, lobotomy remove, lock, log, mode, moderate, more, net, netcraft, networks, news, next, nick, nickometer, nicks, note, notice, old, op, part, password, pin, ping, pingall, plugin, praise, private, quit, random, rank, recent, reconnect, redo, register, reload, remove, rename, reorder, repeat, replace, reply, restore, rss, savemeetings, search, (1 more message) |
| 14:24 | silbe | meeting help pingall |
| 14:24 | meeting | silbe: (pingall <text>) -- Send a broadcast ping to all users on the channel. An message to be sent along with this ping must also be supplied for this command to work. |
| 14:25 | silbe | meeting: pingall AC meeting about to start |
| 14:25 | meeting | AC meeting about to start |
| 14:25 | [scs] aa___ alsroot_away bernie CanoeBerry ChanServ cjb dfarning_afk dirakx_away dogi homunq_ lfaraone lucian m_anish m_anish_afk manushee` marcopg mchua_afk meeting mk8 mtd Nubae pbrobinson satellit_ scorche silbe SMParris1_away tch tuukkah valhalla walterbender | |
| 14:25 | yama | |
| 14:25 | AC meeting about to start | |
| 14:26 | lfaraone | silbe: why thank you for waking me up :) |
| 14:26 | silbe | let's wait another 5 minutes (i.e. start at 15:30) for everyone to wake up ;) |
| 14:27 | <g> | |
| 14:27 | dogi | hi lfaraone |
| 14:27 | silbe | lfaraone: it's not healthy to sleep on the keyboard ;) |
| 14:27 | m_anish | silbe, the coffee maker connected to my computer just poured it all over me :P |
| 14:27 | tch | lol, |
| 14:28 | silbe: what about hugging the laptop? | |
| 14:30 | lfaraone | silbe: agreed. |
| 14:31 | m_anish | wow, http://autsys.tkk.fi/intranet/as-0.3200/S09-07 |
| 14:32 | Nubae | hmmmm... have a lunch with graddad... possible for me to follow via 3g? |
| 14:32 | silbe | m_anish: back in the fido jokes there was a running gag that some software could do everything, except making coffee. Those times seem to be over. :) |
| 14:33 | Nubae | grand dad` |
| 14:34 | silbe | Nubae: :-P |
| 14:34 | #startmeeting | |
| 14:34 | meeting | Meeting started Sat Feb 19 14:34:23 2011 UTC. The chair is silbe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 14:34 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting | |
| 14:34 | walterbender | m_anish: at the Media Lab, we used to have a coffee machine that read an RFID tag in your mug and automatically brewed your choice of espresso, latte, etc. and played your choice of radio station while brewing |
| 14:34 | m_anish | silbe, i wonder if we could set parameters for amount of coffee, sugar, etc. :-) |
| 14:34 | silbe, my new project is to make a irc connected robotic tea (chai) maker :-) | |
| 14:34 | walterbender, ah! | |
| 14:35 | silbe | #topic weekly reports |
| 14:35 | Nubae | silbe, u think maybe I could be amongs the first, so I can then take off with my grandad? |
| 14:35 | SMParris1_away is now known as SMParrish | |
| 14:36 | silbe | I'll go first |
| 14:38 | erikos and I decided last night to slightly extend the 0.92 deadline until Wed so he can improve some parts on the metadata-on-USB patches before landing them. Refactorings etc. of the patches will take place in 0.94, though. | |
| 14:39 | Nubae | listens |
| 14:39 | silbe | as you might have noticed, we managed to land quite a lot of patches since the last meeting. The delta between mainline/master and those patches from Dextrose-3 that I fixed up is rather small now. |
| 14:40 | The patches I did not work on yet are mostly from the accessibility, Backup/Restore and Feedback series. | |
| 14:40 | Nubae | silbe.... this be codumented somehwere? as it is useful to ocompression/fistro on server project too |
| 14:41 | s/fistro/distro | |
| 14:41 | silbe | Another Design Team meeting is scheduled for tomorrow. I'm optimistic so far that we can unblock several important issues, though I'm not sure how long we can keep up the weekly schedule. |
| 14:41 | m_anish | silbe, do you have any comments on the most common issues you came across while going through the patches? |
| 14:42 | silbe | Nubae: ? |
| 14:43 | m_anish: you can check "git log"; I summarised the changes I did. Most common were style fix-ups and better descriptions. | |
| 14:43 | m_anish | silbe, ok |
| 14:43 | Nubae | u mentioned delta... forget it... was thinking somethign else |
| 14:43 | silbe | Sometimes the improved descriptions made the difference between reject and accept, see Speaker mute patch. |
| 14:44 | Nubae: ah, ok. I meant the number of patches that are in Dextrose, but not in mainline/master. (I suppose you got that now, but maybe someone else didn't understand it either) | |
| 14:45 | any other question? If not, we can continue with m_anish. | |
| 14:46 | tch | lets continue then :)? |
| 14:47 | m_anish | so, this week i've mostly been opening and monitoring bug reports while working on some issues, and testing the generated build... a point of concern is that we're not getting as much testing done from the teachers, formadores as i'd like... |
| 14:47 | the schools open on wednesday, we plan on going to caacupe and get some more testing done, otherwise the build looks stable... | |
| 14:47 | silbe | tch: an indication that somebody is currently typing (like e.g. Jabber has) would be nice :) |
| 14:48 | m_anish | also there were some reports that dx-2 is slower than 0.84. I've been doing some tests with two laptops next to each other and both seem to run at almost the same speed |
| 14:49 | might be having some comparison videos by next week :) | |
| 14:49 | dirakx_away is now known as dirakx | |
| 14:49 | silbe | m_anish: "is slower" should always be qualified by exactly what operation is slower. I know it's hard to get users to do that, though. :-/ |
| 14:49 | m_anish | silbe, agree :) |
| 14:50 | silbe, one of their complaints is that dx-2 is slower on a xo1 than on a xo1.5 which is a fundamentally fallacious comparison :/ | |
| 14:50 | silbe | at least some general direction would be useful - starting activities, switching between activities, Journal interaction, using some activities, ... |
| 14:50 | m_anish | silbe, i doubt we could get that info from them |
| 14:51 | Nubae | just as a lowly beginning occassional user of upgrading my xos with 0s6dx2s.img with same .crc file gave me bad checksum veveral times |
| 14:51 | silbe | m_anish: I partially blame the (nearly) identical appearance of the XOs for that. Try explaining to a user that three additional dots on the surface make the machine more than twice as fast. :) |
| 14:52 | Nubae: have you tried using the MD5SUM files to check your download? If the download gets corrupted, there's nothing we can do about it. | |
| 14:53 | dirakx | Nubae: i had the same problem..had to check the SUM twice. |
| 14:53 | silbe | Nubae: oh, are you saying the using the _same_ file several times results sometimes in failures, but sometimes it works? |
| 14:53 | Nubae | wel i downloaded like 5 differetn times |
| 14:54 | I'm just saying its surely a problem that comes up a lot | |
| 14:54 | silbe | ok. Then it might still be a download issue. |
| 14:54 | m_anish | done with his status |
| 14:54 | silbe | We should set up bittorrent. The protocol has inherent checksumming. |
| 14:55 | m_anish: can you give a short summary of the next deadlines etc. ? | |
| 14:55 | Nubae | wonders, is there not an easier all encompassing way to download a whole package and install, detect chekcsum errors and redownload bad bits |
| 14:55 | silbe Exactly! | |
| 14:56 | with bittorrent, one just checks file, and it only downloads messed up parts | |
| 14:56 | it could even be a super simplified bittorrent app just for sugar | |
| 14:56 | m_anish | silbe, sure, so the school open on this wednesday, we'll slowly start flashing laptops this week and gradually expand, i really don't know how much time is this gonna take. next the 5000 xo1.5's should be arriving soon and if given the go ahead, we have to nandblast them ... their handout happens around 2-4th week of march |
| 14:57 | silbe | Nubae: would you like to set up bittorrent on sunjammer? We've been meaning to do it for some time, but it wasn't high-priority. |
| 14:57 | m_anish | tch, ^^ (anything to add) |
| 14:57 | Nubae | silbe sure... rtorrent? |
| 14:57 | dirakx | is glad to know deadlines. |
| 14:57 | Nubae | rtorrent has distance based guis... I mean, live vnc |
| 14:57 | works great | |
| 14:57 | m_anish | silbe, also thinking of releasing updates as per a schedule... starting from weekly, then bi-weekly and finally monthly |
| 14:58 | silbe | m_anish: how is the update of existing XOs going to be done? Can we improve the technology to make it faster? |
| 14:58 | m_anish | dirakx, priority should be to get activity issues fixed sooner |
| 14:58 | silbe, Nandblasting | |
| 14:58 | silbe | Nubae: let's talk about that after the meeting. Thanks for working on it! |
| 14:58 | dirakx | m_anish +1. |
| 14:59 | silbe | m_anish: the schedule sounds good |
| 14:59 | Nubae | k.... distributing updates... why not use the server for that |
| 14:59 | let it cache | |
| 14:59 | then push to xos, or let xos pull | |
| 14:59 | m_anish | dirakx, btw the browse | objectchooser issue exists on 0.84 build as well :/ , lucian found an issue with gmail code |
| 15:00 | dirakx | m_anish about that this seems to be an upstream issue..:( at least what lucian found. |
| 15:01 | tch | m_anish: lets just hope the schedules don't change in the last minute, |
| 15:01 | silbe | m_anish: so for preserving the Journal contents you're relying on the XS? How do you ensure that there are no updated (i.e. not yet backed up) entries on the XO? |
| 15:01 | m_anish | dirakx, ya we could look into packaging f13-xulrunner et al for f11 and see if it works |
| 15:01 | dirakx | m_anish yeah.. |
| 15:01 | silbe | m_anish: FWIW, that's good news to me as it means it's not a regression ;) |
| 15:02 | tch | m_anish: even with nandblasting, it could take 1 day per school, and need to consider kids that won't go to school that same day... we could pass the build to formadores who works there just in case |
| 15:02 | m_anish | silbe, i was talking to roberto re that, he's gonna decide what to do re: backing up, i haven't heard back from him |
| 15:02 | tch, ya | |
| 15:02 | silbe | Nubae: the XS already includes a web cache, doesn't it? That should be good enough for now. |
| 15:03 | dirakx | m_anish I'll check closely into that. anyway pygtk-xulrunner interaction would be always flacky. but Surf stil need time as some parts are not yet ready. |
| 15:03 | Nubae | silbe it will do very very soon, but lets get to that when its my turn to talk |
| 15:04 | m_anish | tch, once we're done with the build, we'll need some time for the rpm for XS's and schools without internet |
| 15:04 | Nubae | we have some decisions to make based on questions I have |
| 15:04 | tch | Nubae: please remember that our problem is not school with intermittent internet connection, our problem is that those school do not have internet at all, and we don't know when or if they ever going to |
| 15:04 | Nubae | I know |
| 15:05 | I spent yesterday evening till very late/early and have the solutions | |
| 15:05 | but need some input from u guys, but continue | |
| 15:05 | silbe | m_anish: one idea I had in the past is to do a USB stick that contains a signed initramfs to back up resp. restore the home dir with tar (using the serial number as part of the filename). |
| 15:05 | Nubae | let me know hen its my turn |
| 15:05 | tch | m_anish: backup of what? |
| 15:06 | silbe: ^ | |
| 15:06 | silbe | Nubae: ok (proxy) |
| 15:06 | tch: in general: the Journal; for the USB stick: the entire home directory (/home/olpc), incl. the data store. | |
| 15:07 | m_anish | silbe, interesting, what we could do (hacky) is to backup to USB change the folder name (serial number) and just copy it to another xo |
| 15:07 | tch, i guess ^ should work? | |
| 15:07 | silbe | m_anish: if you want to restore to a different XO, then yes, that would work. |
| 15:07 | m_anish | tch, silbe, i mean using the backup to USB feature already present |
| 15:08 | tch | m_anish, silbe: there are backups already at the school server, the current builds also provide a backup to XS on demand at the CP section |
| 15:08 | silbe | m_anish: the advantage of the "backup stick" is that you only need to plug it in, not use a GUI => faster |
| 15:08 | Nubae | backup is super simple... its just about picking the method one wants |
| 15:08 | m_anish | silbe, is something like that present already? |
| 15:09 | tch, the old laptops won't have the backup feature, or do they? | |
| 15:09 | Nubae | thinks rsync + puppet |
| 15:09 | m_anish | old=0.84 |
| 15:09 | tch | m_anish, silbe: they do, that was my first approach it is on the CP section |
| 15:09 | silbe | m_anish: not yet, that's the problem. And I won't have time to implement it until you start updating. |
| 15:10 | tch | m_anish, silbe: they have os-py 0.84, I added a backup/restore to XS for the CP |
| 15:10 | m_anish | tch, ah, then it shouldn't be an issue! |
| 15:10 | silbe | tch: are you doing the update while the kids are present? If so, does the CP provide a visible "everything is backed up" indication? |
| 15:11 | Nubae | itwould be a waste and confusing to back everything up |
| 15:12 | tch | silbe: well i am not sure how they are planning to do it, but they should. This CP section just uses what is already built on XS, nothing fancy |
| 15:12 | Nubae | there are great apps like the moodle addon mahora |
| 15:12 | a kind of facebook with major cv+document sharing+ backup | |
| 15:13 | silbe | Nubae: the question isn't what technical solution is easiest, but rather how we can improve the process in a way that works best for and is the fastest for the people doing the update. |
| 15:13 | Nubae | ok, let me ask differently, who will be doing the updates? |
| 15:13 | dirakx | has to go afk for 15 min. will be back soon. |
| 15:13 | Nubae | not the kids I take it fom what u just said? |
| 15:14 | silbe | tch: so the CP provides an indication that everything has been backed up that the teacher could check? I.e. tell all kids to power up, go to the CP to trigger the backup and then do a tour through the class to check everyone has indeed backed their stuff up? |
| 15:15 | tch | silbe: yeah, something like that |
| 15:15 | Nubae | silbe that sounds like mahora,,,, have u seen it in action? |
| 15:15 | silbe | tch: ok, perfect. |
| 15:15 | tch | silbe: that is how we did it in the past atleast, |
| 15:16 | m_anish: ^ copying? :) | |
| 15:16 | m_anish | tch, ack |
| 15:16 | tch | m_anish: :) |
| 15:16 | silbe | tch: ok, so I won't have to ask if you've done the nandblasting part before. :) |
| 15:16 | tch: any other idea on what we could do to make it easier or faster? | |
| 15:18 | Nubae | hmmmm sheeeeet.... s/mahora/Mahara |
| 15:18 | lucian | has read some of the backlog |
| 15:18 | silbe | (for this time - future updates will benefit from the ability to do rpm updates) |
| 15:19 | tch | silbe: not sure if it would work, but if we could know if they current backup represents the current journal state, that would save time |
| 15:19 | silbe | tch: only the XO knows that, so the only way to check it is to power up and check the XO - either manually (CP) or automatically (backup stick). |
| 15:21 | tch | silbe: of course, the question is: is would work technically? (how can you define the journal state? a hash? ) |
| 15:22 | s/: is/: it | |
| 15:22 | silbe: well, guess we can talk about that later | |
| 15:23 | silbe | tch: the technical side is easy enough. We have uid, metadata and checksum (MD5 over the data file). |
| 15:23 | ok, anything else re. the roll-out? | |
| 15:24 | tch | m_anish: ^ |
| 15:24 | m_anish | silbe, nope, can't think of anything else relevant at this point |
| 15:24 | silbe | nice. let's continue with tch then. |
| 15:24 | tch | kk |
| 15:25 | m_anish | has to leave for spanish lesson in 10 mins |
| 15:26 | Nubae | m_anish_afk buena suerte y que tengas una profesora bombona |
| 15:26 | silbe | m_anish: is there anything else you'd like to talk or know about? |
| 15:27 | (before you leave) | |
| 15:27 | Nubae | he's afk I believe |
| 15:27 | tch | Well, basically this week I got split in 3, (1) dx2 testing and bugfixing, (2) talking with nubae about what are our needs for the schools with no internet and (3) contacting our friends from AU |
| 15:27 | m_anish | silbe, hmm, no |
| 15:27 | Nubae, i'm both afk (and not) ;) | |
| 15:28 | Nubae | oh... hehe |
| 15:28 | too many machines | |
| 15:28 | silbe | m_anish: ok. don't tease your teacher too much. ;) |
| 15:28 | Nubae | unless she's a bombona |
| 15:29 | dirakx | :) |
| 15:29 | m_anish | Nubae, (more wasted processor cycles :/) |
| 15:29 | tch | for (1) I think we have done a great job, fixed most of the blockers we had not only for sugar but for activities too |
| 15:29 | Nubae | then just go for it |
| 15:29 | m_anish | silbe, Nubae its a he :) |
| 15:29 | Nubae | oh... I feel for u |
| 15:29 | ;-) | |
| 15:29 | dirakx | tch: yeah good work!. |
| 15:29 | silbe | m_anish: more information than I wanted :-P |
| 15:30 | wonders if tease wasn't a good translation... | |
| 15:30 | m_anish | :D |
| 15:30 | silbe | tch: good work! |
| 15:30 | tch | (2) Nubae will provide me easy way to redirect wan domains to local network address, so we can provide rpms/activities updates on the schools with no internert |
| 15:31 | silbe | ah, split horizon DNS |
| 15:31 | Nubae | tch I spoke to martin L about it yesterday too, but ill get into that in a sec |
| 15:31 | tch | (3) I wrote an email to olpc.AU folks asking a few questions about what they are doing to see how we can help them :) |
| 15:31 | lucian | tch: that sounds a little scary |
| 15:31 | the dns bit | |
| 15:31 | Nubae | lucian its not |
| 15:32 | silbe | tch: work on Backup/Restore (activities) ;) |
| 15:32 | Nubae | wait for the full explanation |
| 15:32 | tch | silbe: +1 |
| 15:32 | haha | |
| 15:32 | lucian | Nubae: ok |
| 15:33 | silbe | tch: did you hear back from them yet? |
| 15:34 | tch | silbe: nope, I sent the email last night, |
| 15:34 | silbe | ok. What blockers remain for DX-2? |
| 15:36 | tch | silbe: the only that comes to my mind is the browse objectchooser one |
| 15:36 | m_anish | leaves for spanish class |
| 15:36 | m_anish has quit IRC | |
| 15:36 | silbe | lucian: what's the latest word re. that one? ^ |
| 15:37 | tch | silbe: beside that we most of the blockers solved :) (one way or another haha) |
| 15:37 | s/we most/we have most | |
| 15:37 | lucian | silbe: i'm not sure what's going on |
| 15:37 | for one, gmail has wrong markup | |
| 15:38 | however, other browsers don't seem to mind | |
| 15:39 | i believe xulrunner chokes on that markup and for some reason unregisters the Browse FilePicker | |
| 15:39 | silbe | well, we do exactly the same as the other browsers do if - show the file chooser ;) |
| 15:39 | s/if // | |
| 15:40 | dirakx | lucian: have you tested with a different version of xulrunner ? |
| 15:40 | lucian | dirakx: no, i didn't manage to |
| 15:40 | dirakx | lucian: I thing dsd has new packeges that we can test on. |
| 15:41 | silbe | lucian: have you tried reproducing it with a minimal example (instead of Browse)? (for reporting the bug upstream) |
| 15:41 | lucian | i should probably also run it on gdb |
| 15:41 | silbe: i tried, but i couldn't | |
| 15:41 | silbe | that's bad... |
| 15:41 | lucian | it's extremely frustrating |
| 15:41 | actually, i didn't try with a minimal browser, just a minimal page | |
| 15:42 | silbe | FWIW I can fell with you - this kind of bug is very hard to diagnose and certainly not fun. |
| 15:42 | dirakx | lucian: #10595 laptop.org |
| 15:42 | silbe: +1. | |
| 15:42 | lucian | strongly dislikes xulrunner |
| 15:42 | silbe | lucian: ah, ok. A minimal browser would be still worth a try then, so we can report it upstream. |
| 15:42 | too | |
| 15:43 | lucian | silbe: yeah |
| 15:43 | tch | seems to agree |
| 15:43 | dirakx | lucian: sorry this seems more likely #10684 |
| 15:43 | silbe | lucian: once DX-2 is out, we should talk about what exactly we need to get Surf into DX-3. |
| 15:44 | lucian | silbe: i can tell you now: dump pygtk&friends for gobject-introspection and a fresh webkit |
| 15:44 | silbe | lucian: "dump" is not an option. Installing in parallel (if possible) would be. |
| 15:44 | tch: anything else you'd like to mention? | |
| 15:44 | lucian | silbe: that's not possible. sugar-toolkit still uses pygtk |
| 15:44 | you can't mix them | |
| 15:45 | tch | silbe: nope, :) |
| 15:45 | silbe | lucian: is it just a run-time issue or can't you even install the packages in parallel? |
| 15:45 | lucian | silbe: just runtime |
| 15:45 | silbe | a run-time issue we could solve. |
| 15:46 | lucian | Browse relies on sugar-toolkit, so both would have to be ported |
| 15:46 | silbe | ok, let's continue with dirakx then |
| 15:46 | lucian | but afaik, s-t has C bits |
| 15:46 | dirakx | ok a minor update. |
| 15:47 | silbe | lucian: quick hack: ship a g-i'ified version of sugar-toolkit (no C bits required) as part of Surf. |
| 15:47 | (but let's talk about that when DX-3 development fully starts) | |
| 15:48 | lucian | silbe: ugh. yeah, i guess |
| 15:48 | dirakx | we worked with activities blockers..fixing bugs. some pootle work, also we have complemented http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/A[…]ry/Editors/Policy |
| 15:48 | this is inorder to have a better QA of activities. | |
| 15:49 | tch | dirakx: :) |
| 15:49 | dirakx | NZ testers are collaborating with this ;) |
| 15:49 | I have a request of a sysadmin help..about upgrading pootle.. | |
| 15:50 | would be nice to work sometime today or tomorrow fixing it up. | |
| 15:50 | our upgrade managed to broke commits. | |
| 15:50 | silbe | dirakx: what exactly do you need help with? maybe dogi can help. |
| 15:51 | dirakx | silbe: I guess only back up..if any gets too damaged. |
| 15:51 | silbe | (I have neither PHP or Pootle knowledge nor time, sorry) |
| 15:51 | Nubae | is pretty pootle fluent |
| 15:51 | dirakx | this upgrade should do for pgettext support. |
| 15:51 | Nubae | but also pretty backed up |
| 15:51 | so couldnt look within 2 weeks at least | |
| 15:52 | silbe | dirakx: ok, we should be able to provide that - IIRC Pootle is routinely backed up using duplicity in case everything else fails. |
| 15:52 | Nubae | also, used pootle for tranlsating my edu python app to Spanish |
| 15:52 | dirakx | silbe: right..ok I only need that. |
| 15:52 | Nubae: silbe I'll ping you if I need any help then. | |
| 15:53 | Nubae | dirakx to be honest, it soounds harder than it is |
| 15:53 | silbe | dirakx, Nubae: ok, then we'll do the backup and you (dirakx) can try the upgrade today on your own, and if anything goes wrong we can restore and you two (dirakx+Nubae) can try again in two weeks. |
| 15:54 | dirakx | silbe: sounds good. |
| 15:55 | I'll try tonight. | |
| 15:55 | silbe | dirakx: thx! |
| 15:55 | dirakx | silbe: so is everything backed up ? |
| 15:55 | Nubae | silbe I sent email to team, can u please moderate it... for some reason it just wouldn't go through AC |
| 15:55 | silbe | dirakx: I'd like to check first to be sure. |
| 15:55 | dirakx | silbe: ok thanks. |
| 15:55 | Nubae | its relevant to the next piece of info |
| 15:56 | silbe | Nubae: you sent using your gmail.com address again, not using the ac.(com|org) address. Only ac.(com|org) gets through unmoderated. |
| 15:56 | done | |
| 15:56 | Nubae | I tried first with ac address |
| 15:56 | but it failed | |
| 15:57 | tch | silbe: could you send my ac acc info to my gmail inbox please :)? |
| 15:57 | Nubae | and couldnt be bothered to reverse engineer at this critical time |
| 15:57 | dirakx | just other thing ..we are working on miel collection if you have suggestions for inclusion of activities http://activities.sugarlabs.or[…]r/collection/miel |
| 15:57 | Nubae | It wont happen again, promise |
| 15:57 | tch | silbe: I keep getting rejected for team |
| 15:57 | silbe | Nubae: :) |
| 15:57 | tch: let's work on it after the meeting. | |
| 15:58 | tch | silbe: ACK |
| 15:58 | silbe | dirakx: nice progress. Anything else? |
| 15:59 | dirakx | silbe: nop ;). |
| 15:59 | tch | is it now when we drink tequilas and celebrate for another productive week? |
| 16:00 | silbe | alsroot_away, bernie: would you like to say anything? |
| 16:00 | Nubae | hehe, if only |
| 16:01 | silbe | tch: I "celebrate" by working on the slides for my talk about about HV supplies for X-ray tubes on monday. :-/ |
| 16:01 | tch | bernie: deme! |
| 16:01 | dirakx | silbe: that sounds interesting ;) |
| 16:02 | tch: maybe beer will be all right. | |
| 16:02 | tch | silbe: too wild for me sorry ;) |
| 16:02 | silbe | dirakx: it definitely is - and hard to squeeze into a 12 minute talk :-/ |
| 16:02 | tch: lol | |
| 16:02 | Nubae | k.... am I up? |
| 16:02 | silbe | Nubae: you have the stage :) |
| 16:03 | dirakx | silbe: I've studied some X-ray tube theory on a class at U. .but i forgot about it now. |
| 16:04 | Nubae | ok, cool... very nice developments this week... tch and me bounced ideas back and forth quite frantically, some of them a bit a head of their time, but most of them very doable and implementable in a short time frame |
| 16:04 | The mail u guys should have received was sort of the final conclusion that me and tch came up with and I sent it to to Martin L, to see what he thought about it | |
| 16:05 | As u can see, the response was actually very positive... so applause for tch for coming up with a new requirement for the XS server and derivatives there of | |
| 16:06 | dirakx | great. |
| 16:06 | silbe | is surprised the XS doesn't already ship wwwoffle |
| 16:06 | bernie | silbe: say something about tequila? ;-) |
| 16:06 | Nubae | The idea wsa simple enough to begin with... we wanted to redirect one url to a local source, so it wouldnt have to do a DNS lookup for activities.sugarlabs.org |
| 16:06 | silbe | bernie: yep, you wanted to give a round I heard :-P |
| 16:07 | bernie | silbe: the xs does not ship many things... it doesn't even have squid! |
| 16:07 | silbe | (or whatever the english translation is) |
| 16:07 | bernie | silbe: hehe, i get it :) |
| 16:07 | silbe | bernie: that's exactly what we're talking about (wwwoffle is an HTTP proxy) ;) |
| 16:07 | tch | (it makes sense when translating it to spanish, al least) |
| 16:08 | Nubae | This then transmutated to an idea that we could use a configuration file in which to put sites to be cached, editted by teachers/admins/or even students (an activity anyone?) |
| 16:08 | silbe | tch: that's a start :D |
| 16:09 | Nubae | between me and the folks here... the XS is amongst the worst distros I've had the pleasure of working with |
| 16:09 | I hope this channel is not logged :-/ | |
| 16:09 | dirakx | Nubae: that's a good idea for an activity. |
| 16:09 | Nubae | oh... I was just kiddig anyway |
| 16:09 | :p | |
| 16:09 | so... back to point... | |
| 16:10 | bernie | silbe: ah... then either squid or wwwoffle would be fine with me. in paraguay we've been using squid and i installed it also in mozambique. what makes wwwoffle interesting? |
| 16:11 | silbe | Nubae: meetings are always logged and public. |
| 16:11 | Nubae | there were many choices, use bind + squid, use dnsmasq+squid, use wwwoffle, and finally, an idea thta seems to be the most interestng of all, a patched version of squid, using dnsmasq which is the way I am going right now |
| 16:11 | bernie not much wwwoffle is new, not benchmarked | |
| 16:11 | but a sort of alll in one solution | |
| 16:12 | I'm not too fond of it | |
| 16:12 | silbe right thats why I said I was kidding, I love the XS... best distro in the world! | |
| 16:12 | silbe | bernie: it's specifically made for "offline" (i.e. non-24/7 uplink) operation (dial-up etc.). I've been using it for many years on my laptops. |
| 16:13 | Nubae | silbe hang on a sec though |
| 16:13 | bernie | silbe: ah, ok. makes sense for the xs. |
| 16:13 | Nubae | in the attachment I sent u guys... there is a patch for squid... its does one of 3 things.... turn caching completely On forever |
| 16:14 | tch | goes to eat something, |
| 16:14 | Nubae | detect if interenet access is availlable and refresh content, and alllow someone to choose which content to refresh manually |
| 16:15 | its been used by quite some people, and they are all saying it sounds great... I personally think dnsmasq +squid would be the way to go.... | |
| 16:15 | why? | |
| 16:15 | because people know squid | |
| 16:16 | and dnsmasq is 10-20 times easier than bind9 | |
| 16:16 | what do u think? | |
| 16:16 | m_anish_afk is now known as m_anish | |
| 16:16 | Nubae | can always go back and use wwwoffle at any time if it turns out not to work as advertised |
| 16:17 | silbe | tch: bon apo |
| 16:17 | lucian | likes dnsmasq |
| 16:17 | silbe | Nubae: people also know wwwoffle and it's been specifically written for this instead of hacked. |
| 16:18 | Nubae | finally... got a lot of this advice from folks on #bind, #dnsmasq and Scottsolarone.net: http://www.gnuveau.net/cgi-bin[…].cgi/SolarNetWiki |
| 16:18 | please look at link | |
| 16:18 | lucian | i am skeptical of squid's performance |
| 16:18 | silbe | Nubae: Wizzy Digital Courier and similar projects use it, too. |
| 16:18 | Nubae | silbe this is a patch, not a hack |
| 16:18 | and squid has been around 20 years longer than wwwoffle | |
| 16:19 | I guarantee wwwoffle's performance will be light years away from squid | |
| 16:19 | lucian | for example, last time i checked squid did its own swapping, which is just silly on modern machines |
| 16:19 | silbe | Nubae: turning squid into an offline proxy qualifies as hack to me, no matter what the patch looks like. |
| 16:19 | lucian: you might have misunderstood how squid works | |
| 16:20 | Nubae | lucian u can choose where/how/which filesystem to swap with |
| 16:20 | I'm not sure what u mean? | |
| 16:20 | lucian | Nubae: yes, which is silly |
| 16:20 | silbe | lucian: it has both an in-RAM and an on-disk cache, but nothing that resembles swapping. |
| 16:20 | lucian | the varnish guy explains it better than i do |
| 16:20 | silbe: yes, and it should realistically only have one | |
| 16:20 | Nubae | silbe offline has been in squid since its inception what are u talking about? |
| 16:20 | offline_mode | |
| 16:21 | lucian | anyway, my point is just that squid isn't necessarily fast. all options should be benchmarked |
| 16:22 | Nubae | wel,l, I've done my research... spoken to folks in the many places its used... I've not come across anyone telling me squid's performance is slow |
| 16:22 | complicated for the lay person, perhaps, slow? compared to what? | |
| 16:23 | silbe | lucian: I beg to differ. RAM and disk have different performance characteristics, so different layouts and algorithms make sense. |
| 16:24 | Nubae | silbe... the patch I sent, simply adds 1 more option to Squid... it allows it to play well with intermittent connections+ |
| 16:24 | lucian | silbe: modern OSes make that obsolete, mostly |
| 16:24 | Nubae | but squid has ALWAYS been an offline proxy if needed |
| 16:25 | lucian modern oses? | |
| 16:25 | silbe | Nubae: interesting, I didn't know about that option. But does it have all the other features (requesting pages to be fetched on next dial-up etc.) that make wwwoffle so useful? |
| 16:25 | Nubae | anyway, this conversation is degrading to completely unconstructive |
| 16:25 | lucian | virtual memory in modern OSes is usually better at optimising than separate code for memory and disk |
| 16:26 | Nubae | silbe basically it turns it into wwwoffle (thats really making it basic) |
| 16:26 | but yes.... its made for dialup | |
| 16:26 | lucian | anyway, if it's fast enough it shouldn't be an issue |
| 16:26 | silbe | lucian: I definitely want to see the numbers that back this up. |
| 16:26 | Nubae | me too :-) |
| 16:26 | lucian | is rifling through varnish docs |
| 16:27 | Nubae | remember, there are about 100 plugins to support squid's performance needs on large load balanced systems |
| 16:27 | silbe | Nubae: and why don't we use wwwoffle right away then? ;) |
| 16:28 | Nubae | wwwoffle as far as I know, does not play nice with dnsmasq (according to the channel boys) |
| 16:28 | also, I dont know wwwoffle as well, and I imagine most people in the field dont either | |
| 16:28 | is that not a good enough reason? | |
| 16:28 | silbe | Nubae: do we expect any deployment to operate load balanced proxies? |
| 16:28 | Nubae | never say never |
| 16:29 | silbe | Nubae: I don't expect people in the field to know squid, either. I can't really claim that I understand it well enough myself (and I've been running squid for about a decade now) |
| 16:29 | Nubae | silbe right... but if we throw something at them that they dont even know the name of |
| 16:29 | think politically for a second | |
| 16:30 | silbe | Nubae: BTW, I'm not saying that your idea is bad and we shouldn't try it out - I'm just skeptical that it's better than wwwoffle. |
| 16:30 | Nubae | silbe thats why I said above... if I see its not working.... |
| 16:30 | I will gofor wwwoffle | |
| 16:30 | silbe | Nubae: then we can show them that it's used by projects with very similar needs. It's got a reputation. |
| 16:31 | Nubae: ok, get me a working prototype (XS image) and I'll try it out. :) | |
| 16:31 | Nubae | <Nubae> can always go back and use wwwoffle at any time if it turns out not to work as advertised |
| 16:31 | feels much more comfortable with dnsmasq and squid | |
| 16:32 | but what I wrote above is also true | |
| 16:32 | it mayeven be the point that we give them a choice | |
| 16:32 | who knows | |
| 16:33 | its early days... why not do at least a little bit of R and D | |
| 16:33 | silbe | Nubae: giving them a choice might be a good idea. It'll increase our support load, but would give us feedback which one works better in the field. |
| 16:33 | Nubae: do you need anything else to continue working? | |
| 16:34 | Nubae | is used to coming from an environment (Guadalinex-edu) where we checked tens of solutions before choosing one |
| 16:34 | no.... just the VM u promised to build statusnet in | |
| 16:35 | and whatever other experimental things that might crop up | |
| 16:35 | I know I know... I need to send u my public key | |
| 16:35 | silbe | :) |
| 16:35 | Nubae | can u take it from my git are? |
| 16:35 | or should I send it? | |
| 16:35 | silbe | alsroot_away might be able to |
| 16:36 | Nubae | did u see this? http://www.linux.com/archive/feature/151362 |
| 16:36 | silbe | Nubae: are you "nubae" on gitorious? |
| 16:36 | Nubae | yeah |
| 16:37 | but wait... I just upgraded my key... so need to upload that | |
| 16:37 | dont take the old one... give me a couple mins | |
| 16:37 | silbe | Nubae: nop, but I've read the web site for the SolarNetOne project. |
| 16:37 | Nubae: ok. | |
| 16:37 | Nubae | watch the movie in the mean time, its abonut xos and how to get internet to remote locations |
| 16:38 | silbe | Nubae: you don't happen to have a direct link to the video (as MPEG or whatever)? I have youtube-dl, but it's using some other site (blip.tv). :-/ |
| 16:38 | Nubae | I know scott pretty well, as hes heavily involved with LTSP.... he was the one who suggested squid and a dns server as best solutions, he didnt like wwwoffle |
| 16:38 | silbe | anyone else want to say something before we finish= |
| 16:38 | ? | |
| 16:39 | Nubae | ogg-theora right click to download |
| 16:39 | http://blip.tv/file/get/Lc-GNU[…]sForRemote596.OGG | |
| 16:40 | lucian | heh, wwwoffle could've solved some of my issues when i was on 3g internet |
| 16:40 | Nubae | hmmm u didnt have always on 3G connect? |
| 16:40 | silbe | Nubae: thx! |
| 16:41 | #endmeeting | |
| 16:41 | meeting | Meeting ended Sat Feb 19 16:41:03 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 16:41 | Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-19T14:34:23.html | |
| 16:41 | Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-02-19T14:34:23 | |
| 16:41 | lucian | Nubae: it didn't always work |
| 16:41 | silbe | lucian: which issues exactly? I can imagine it doesn't work too well if transfers get interrupted (though squid probably wouldn't do any better ;) ). |
| 16:41 | Nubae | silbe Scott has found very efficient/cheap ways to get net access to very remote locations |
| 16:42 | its super intersting stuff... he said he'd be happy to consult for us, if we needed to | |
| 16:42 | lucian | silbe: the 3g kept disconnecting and screwing things up |
| 16:43 | Nubae | lucian weird... I have 3g for a year now, and it works like a charm |
| 16:43 | cant remember not living without it anymore | |
| 16:43 | lucian | Nubae: try using it with a bad signal :) |
| 16:43 | Nubae | silbe how come I get my crc being corrupted every time? |
| 16:44 | silbe | Nubae: ask your provider. transparent proxy maybe? |
| 16:44 | Nubae | lucian oh well, mine jumps to gprs in those situations |
| 16:44 | but it never switches off | |
| 16:44 | lucian | Nubae: no, no signal at all |
| 16:44 | silbe | totally hates those. They make debugging network issues a PITA. |
| 16:44 | lucian | mobile signal in the UK is crap |
| 16:45 | Nubae | ah... saturation probably |
| 16:45 | I dont live in a big city | |
| 16:45 | lucian | no, it's just crap |
| 16:45 | the city isn't very big | |
| 16:45 | silbe | lucian: my phone has a tendency to drop phone calls if the battery gets too low, even if it's still in the "green area" (> 1/3 capacity left). :-/ |
| 16:45 | lucian | silbe: that sounds like a buggy phone |
| 16:46 | Nubae | lucian what phone? |
| 16:46 | silbe | lucian: buggy phone and old battery |
| 16:46 | lucian | silbe's |
| 16:46 | Nubae | I have a HTC... very happy with it |
| 16:46 | silbe | lucian: it's so buggy that it even runs Windows :( |
| 16:46 | lucian | silbe: heh |
| 16:46 | silbe | is talking about a Telekom-branded HTC Universal |
| 16:46 | lucian | i almost like my motorola milestone |
| 16:46 | Nubae | The new htcs look soooo nice |
| 16:47 | I want a Desire 2 | |
| 16:47 | wow that looks nice | |
| 16:47 | ok, well... have to run... | |
| 16:47 | silbe | -> lunch |
| 16:47 | Nubae | silbe cool video eh? |
| 16:48 | interesting guy to talk to | |
| 16:48 | I told him I'd forward his mail to dfarning/us | |
| 16:48 | we could learn a LOT from the dude methinks | |
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| 18:08 | silbe | Nubae: the two interesting minutes of this quarter-of-an-hour video were when he mentioned where he got the money from to build the first installation :) |
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