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#sugar-meeting, 2011-09-23

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15:00 walterbender hola todas
15:01 do we have a quorum?
15:01 bernie walterbender: sorry, i'm late
15:01 alsroot hi all
15:02 walterbender bernie: np
15:02 just finishing up a demo at OLPC for some teachers
15:02 raffael hello from berlin
15:03 walterbender looks to see if cjb is in
15:03 cjb hello
15:03 walterbender hi chris... I am at OLPC :)
15:03 bernie walterbender: i'm in no hurry
15:03 walterbender we have a quorum, so we can get started
15:03 #start-meeting
15:03 meeting Meeting started Fri Sep 23 15:03:50 2011 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:03 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
15:04 walterbender I think the first topic is Raffael's proposal.
15:04 #topic SL Germany
15:05 has everyone read it?
15:05 looks for the link
15:05 raffael Are there any open questions on my informations?
15:07 walterbender I just realized that Raffael's most recent mail only went to slobs.sl.org
15:07 I'll forward it to iaep
15:07 sent
15:08 #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ember/014113.html
15:08 raffael: I think the idea of studios (I like that term) is great
15:08 and very much in keeping with our mission
15:09 raffael: as I remarked to you off list, I think the only issue I have is with coming up with a name that is broad enough for your goals and yet makes room for the other activities in Germany
15:10 raffael: did you ever have a chance to speak with erikos (Simon) and bertf?
15:11 #idea Sugar Studios Germany
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15:12 bernie reads
15:12 raffael mmmh ... I think it is really important to keep the reference to sugarlabs
15:13 Icarito-6f6e <Icarito-6f6e!~urk@> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:13 Icarito-6f6e sorry I'm late, SLOBs meeting here?
15:14 bernie Icarito-6f6e: yup, but it just started
15:14 Icarito-6f6e: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]eeting/2011-09-23
15:14 Icarito-6f6e walter fwd'd raffael's email to IAEP
15:14 thanks
15:14 walterbender maybe SL Germany is a collective that includes Simon's program and you are running Sugar Studios within it?
15:15 Icarito-6f6e: #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ember/014113.html
15:15 raffael It is fine for me  - everyone is welcome to join
15:16 walterbender raffael: you mentioned a webpage in the wiki? do you have a link you can share?
15:17 JT4sugar raffael, I think if you want it to spread in Germany you would start as Sugar Labs Berlin opening up opportunity for others to jump in such as Sugar Labs Stuttgar, etc.t. After a few have formed then an umbrella Sugar Labs Germany makes sense
15:17 raffael exactly
15:17 bernie raffael: your project is really interesting
15:17 walterbender JT4sugar: the Sugar activities in Germany are already more widespread than Berlin and in Berlin, there are several different types of projects.
15:18 my suggestion is that Simon, Bert, Raffael, et al. establish SL Germany and Raffael runs his Studio program under that umbrella.
15:18 raffael my problem at the moment is, I need to establish a legal institution to start with
15:19 walterbender raffael: caa that be SL Germany with the broader mission?
15:19 JT4sugar walterbender, If he wants to take on his new project at same time put together other efforts through collaboration with other efforts into a Sugar Labs Germany with help of Bert and Simon then that would seem to work also
15:20 bernie raffael: in the past, there have been pilots that took sugar in some form (XO, SoaS, Fedora...), found what works and what doesn't, and customized the sw to their needs.  This time i'd like to ask ahead of time that we establish tight communication channels with the developers to get any technical issues fixed for good in the software we release.
15:20 walterbender ^caa^can
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15:21 bernie raffael: it might not be easy, because pilots work at a different pace and have different priorities from upstream development (school terms VS 6 months release cycles)
15:22 raffael found the link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Learning_Studios
15:22 Icarito-6f6e i think raffael's entrepreneuring is very welcome, and a formal institution is a great contribution to our ecosystem
15:23 walterbender I think we #agreed that the Learning Studios initiative is a very positive contribution to SL
15:24 we just need to agree to the name and I think we are set to go!!
15:24 bernie Icarito-6f6e: +1
15:24 walterbender: i don't remember #agreeing, but i hereby #agree :)
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15:25 walterbender bernie: "your project is really interesting" :P
15:26 erikos: welcome
15:26 erikos walterbender, hi
15:26 walterbender erikos: just wanted your input re Raffael's Learning Studios proposal
15:26 erikos: because we are trying to come up with a name
15:26 erikos walterbender, what was the url again?
15:27 walterbender #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Learning_Studios
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15:27 bernie erikos: hey!
15:27 walterbender erikos: and #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ember/014113.html
15:27 bernie erikos: also http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]eeting/2011-09-23
15:27 erikos hey bernie !
15:28 Icarito-6f6e my opinion regarding regional sugar labs is that if they abide by http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]r_Labs#Principles - there should be no problem calling it SL Germany
15:28 i.e. there would be explicit ways to become part of and collaborate with the organization
15:29 bernie Icarito-6f6e: agreed
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15:29 Icarito-6f6e which is sort of what walterbender was saying about acting as umbrella organization
15:29 this is a big chore and I feel if raffael is willing to take it on, we should welcome it
15:29 SL Global is lucky to have SFC for this
15:30 raffael Sorry, what is SFC?
15:30 bernie Icarito-6f6e: Bradley Kuhm would also add that Local Labs shouldn't be doing for-profit activity using the Sugar Labs or SFC marks (if I understood correctly)
15:31 Icarito-6f6e of course erikos, silbe, bert, are closer to the issue
15:31 bernie raffael: Software Freedom Conservancy
15:31 walterbender Icarito-6f6e: why do you say that?
15:31 bernie raffael: it's our umbrella foundation
15:31 Icarito-6f6e walterbender: why do I say what?
15:32 bernie #link http://sfconservancy.org/
15:32 walterbender Icarito-6f6e: say that SFC is against for-profit ?
15:32 Icarito-6f6e walterbender: I did not say that, bernie did
15:32 walterbender Icarito-6f6e: oops...
15:32 bernie: why do you say that?
15:32 raffael Only to make this clear I am talking about non-profit here.
15:33 Icarito-6f6e bernie, walterbender Somos Azucar is non profit as well, but I remember when Local Labs were originally devised, the door was open for other models
15:33 walterbender raffael: I am not sure that matterss... it is OK to be for-profit too
15:34 Icarito-6f6e so far local labs have been not-for-profit too
15:34 bernie walterbender: he told us not long ago that we shouldn't do for-profit activity under *.sugarlabs.org, or using the SL marks... like, for example, dogi's online shop of Sugar branded merchandise.
15:35 Icarito-6f6e: i'm 100% in favor of for-profit models. i actually HOPE to see more of them in the future
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15:36 JT4sugar In a business sense you would set up a Non-profit and a for profit and just have them partner and avoid the issue. Or the non-profit sells services but money goes back into non-profit not to invetsors.
15:37 Raffael maybe go with Sugar Labs Germany and then call your particular project Sugar Studios-Berlin which opens opportunities for names like Sugar Studios-Stuttgart, etc.
15:37 Icarito-6f6e JT4sugar: in places like Peru setting up a non profit can take up to a year
15:37 lfaraone It's totally okay to sell stuff as a non-profit, the key must be that all funds raised are reinvested in the business's non-profit mission.
15:38 raffael lfarone: correct
15:38 walterbender #action Walter will clarify this issue with Bradley
15:39 but I think lfaraone is correct as well
15:39 and I think it has always been the case that we are in favor of for-profit local enterprizes
15:39 bernie lfaraone: yes. this would not count as for-profit activity.
15:39 walterbender as per the local labs page in the wiki
15:40 but back to the name issue...
15:40 are we converging on a solution?
15:40 Icarito-6f6e walterbender: while you're at it, it would be interesting to ask SFC if Sugar Labs can engage in contracts, etc internationally as well
15:40 maybe SFC can be umbrella for us all
15:40 walterbender Icarito-6f6e: as far as I know, the answer is yes
15:40 Icarito-6f6e: but if there is a more detailed question, I am happy to run it past Bradley
15:41 Icarito-6f6e: I am sure we could do some sort of subcontracting arrangement as well, if necessary
15:42 bernie walterbender: anyway, there doesn't seem to be an issue for this particular local lab, as it isn't going to do for-profit activity, is it?
15:43 Icarito-6f6e walterbender: ask him this: Is it possible and under what conditions can Sugar Labs (SFC) engage in a contractual relationship with the Peruvian Government?
15:43 walterbender #action Walter to ask SFC ^^
15:44 cjb walterbender: was our contract with Slipstream international?
15:44 walterbender do we have enough data to decide re SL Germany as a name?
15:44 cjb: Slipstream is US based, but we have entertained international contracts in the past, e.g., Nokia
15:45 cjb: it should not be a problem
15:45 cjb yeah, I agree
15:45 have we tried just asking erikos/silbe what they think?
15:45 walterbender cjb, Icarito-6f6e I think the question is whether the SFC will sign off for SL contracts or Local Labs contracts
15:46 cjb: I had asked raffael to have that conversation...
15:46 cjb: he spoke with erikos in Berlin at Linux Tag? or some other event, as I recall
15:46 cjb how'd it go?
15:47 raffael we did not talk about the name yet
15:47 walterbender raffael, erikos should speak for themselves :P
15:47 cjb I don't like mediating things like this -- we should just encourage people to get an okay from the other people who might object, I think
15:47 walterbender raffael: personally, I think that SL will be happy with whatever the local community decides
15:48 but as cjb suggests, we shouldn't make that decision for you
15:48 bernie walterbender: +1
15:48 Icarito-6f6e I think if erikos or silbe had objected they'd have said something by now
15:48 bernie cjb: right
15:49 cjb cool, okay.  So, raffael, please send a mail to the other German SL folks saying that you would like to take on "Sugar Labs Germany" and ask for whether they are +1 or -1 on it
15:49 erikos what is actually the benefit of calling it sugarlabs germany?
15:49 cjb if they all reply +1, I think we can consider it done; no-one here objects
15:49 walterbender cjb: we can pass a motion even by email...
15:49 erikos it seems to me, to be a local entitiy only that deals with a specific task
15:50 Icarito-6f6e all the other local labs are called by their country name...
15:50 umm not all sorry
15:52 bernie Icarito-6f6e: nope, there's also Sugar Labs DC (Washington DC)
15:52 erikos i would not use such a big term like country if my work is only relevant for a small portion of the country itself
15:52 raffael erikos: but the intention is much broader
15:52 erikos if someone in Munich wants to do a lab he might be stopped by that
15:53 raffael, you can always enlarge later, I guess
15:53 raffael no, he could simply join in
15:53 erikos I would start small
15:53 bernie erikos: otoh, calling it SL Germany might attract more people later, thus making it become what the name suggests later on
15:53 erikos raffael, but he would have to deal with your lab first
15:53 Icarito-6f6e erikos: i don't think somebody interested in making a lab would be stopped by something like that
15:54 bernie (unless of course there's another group right now who wants to claim the nation-wide lab for Germany)
15:54 walterbender It could be argued either way... but it could be nice to have an umbrella in Germany to help promote everyone's efforts
15:54 raffael as you know I see it as some kind of blueprint - of course i have to start with one
15:55 erikos personally, I like to start small
15:55 easier to fulfill the promisses then
15:55 just my 2 cents
15:55 bernie erikos: ah, i see your point as well
15:55 cjb erikos: have any specific naming suggestions?
15:56 erikos cjb, Sugar Labs Berlin
15:56 for example
15:56 cjb that sounds pretty reasonable
15:57 walterbender the other approach would be projects under a country-wide organization...
15:57 JT4sugar raffael, If you choose Sugar Labs Germany think it's very important to then say you are setting up Sugar Studios-Berlin to leave open opportunity for others to create locally named studios
15:57 bernie erikos: this name might discourage other german people from joining, though
15:57 raffael one point ... maybe to be described more elaborate offline. labs are only working if someone pays the rent - no legal institution, no nationwide name, no nationwide funds
15:58 erikos bernie, ok, that's a point
15:59 walterbender it seems that there is so much positive energy in .de that we should have a national group
15:59 bernie raffael, erikos: i think the SLOBs could pre-approve the creation of the lab before there's an agreement about the name
15:59 cjb erikos: perhaps everyone involved in SL in .de could set up a national group together, first
15:59 and then raffael's studio could be a part of it?
15:59 walterbender cjb: +1 with individual projects with in it...
15:59 bernie raffael, erikos: after all, it's about trusting a certain group of people, not a specific name
16:00 this way we can move the name discussion offline
16:01 erikos cjb, would be an option indeed
16:01 there is as well olpc-de...
16:01 raffael I am member there too
16:02 Icarito-6f6e in Peru we've innoculated ourselves from this by calling us "Somos Azucar - Sugar Labs Peru"
16:02 cjb raffael: does that sound good to you, setting up SL Germany as encompassing everyone's work, including yours?
16:02 walterbender needs to disappear for 5 minutes... please continue
16:02 erikos just saying, they already do not really know what to do with their time ;p
16:02 Icarito-6f6e we wanted to leave the door open for other groups as well
16:03 raffael erikos: that is part of the problem
16:04 erikos raffael, you may be even able to run your lab under their umbrella
16:04 raffael, that way they might get involved...
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16:08 Icarito-6f6e Peru team would like to request the board's time for next meeting, also regarding possible contracting with the government, who can help us from SL side of things?
16:08 walterbender is back
16:09 bernie i'm afraid i have to leave
16:09 walterbender Icarito-6f6e: OK... I'll put it on the agenda for next week
16:09 bernie did we have anything else in the agenda?
16:09 Icarito-6f6e there is  a movement to create SL Latinamerica we could discuss
16:10 bernie I'd like to discuss the team reports next time
16:10 walterbender next week, I am running a workshop on Friday, but I think I can schedule things such that I break at 15UTC
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16:10 walterbender bernie: OK... more than we discussed last week? any particular focus?
16:11 JT4sugar walterbender, Are the local lab reports in and are they posted?
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16:11 walterbender so, re names, can we task erikos and raffael to discuss between now and next week and come to us with a proposal?
16:12 raffael_ I will try
16:12 walterbender JT4sugar: there are links from the minutes page I posted on w.sl.o
16:12 JT4sugar walterbender, OK thanks
16:12 walterbender #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/O[…]inutes-2011-09-16
16:12 bernie walterbender: i've read Sean Daly's report and he seems to have many blocking issues, we should try to address some of them
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16:13 walterbender to be continued next week?
16:13 bernie: +1. I'll see if he can join us next week
16:13 anything else pressing for today?
16:13 bernie walterbender: iirc, one issue is with the infrastructure, one is with development, and one is a budget issue
16:14 walterbender Icarito-6f6e: I'd like to discuss you suggestion of beefing up what SL central can do for local labs... maybe we can come up with a concrete proposal
16:14 bernie ok let's endmeeting for now
16:14 walterbender OK...
16:14 3
16:14 Icarito-6f6e walterbender: we can dicuss more next meeting about this
16:14 thanks!
16:15 walterbender 2
16:15 1
16:15 thanks all... until next week... see you in #sugar :)
16:15 #end-meeting
16:15 meeting Meeting ended Fri Sep 23 16:15:31 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
16:15 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-23T15:03:50.html
16:15 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-09-23T15:03:50
16:15 raffael_ bye from berlin
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