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| 07:44 | kornbluth.freenode.net | [freenode-info] if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp |
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| 15:00 | walterbender | hola todas |
| 15:01 | do we have a quorum? | |
| 15:01 | bernie | walterbender: sorry, i'm late |
| 15:01 | alsroot | hi all |
| 15:02 | walterbender | bernie: np |
| 15:02 | just finishing up a demo at OLPC for some teachers | |
| 15:02 | raffael | hello from berlin |
| 15:03 | walterbender | looks to see if cjb is in |
| 15:03 | cjb | hello |
| 15:03 | walterbender | hi chris... I am at OLPC :) |
| 15:03 | bernie | walterbender: i'm in no hurry |
| 15:03 | walterbender | we have a quorum, so we can get started |
| 15:03 | #start-meeting | |
| 15:03 | meeting | Meeting started Fri Sep 23 15:03:50 2011 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 15:03 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting | |
| 15:04 | walterbender | I think the first topic is Raffael's proposal. |
| 15:04 | #topic SL Germany | |
| 15:05 | has everyone read it? | |
| 15:05 | looks for the link | |
| 15:05 | raffael | Are there any open questions on my informations? |
| 15:07 | walterbender | I just realized that Raffael's most recent mail only went to slobs.sl.org |
| 15:07 | I'll forward it to iaep | |
| 15:07 | sent | |
| 15:08 | #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ember/014113.html | |
| 15:08 | raffael: I think the idea of studios (I like that term) is great | |
| 15:08 | and very much in keeping with our mission | |
| 15:09 | raffael: as I remarked to you off list, I think the only issue I have is with coming up with a name that is broad enough for your goals and yet makes room for the other activities in Germany | |
| 15:10 | raffael: did you ever have a chance to speak with erikos (Simon) and bertf? | |
| 15:11 | #idea Sugar Studios Germany | |
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| 15:12 | bernie | reads |
| 15:12 | raffael | mmmh ... I think it is really important to keep the reference to sugarlabs |
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| 15:13 | Icarito-6f6e | sorry I'm late, SLOBs meeting here? |
| 15:14 | bernie | Icarito-6f6e: yup, but it just started |
| 15:14 | Icarito-6f6e: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]eeting/2011-09-23 | |
| 15:14 | Icarito-6f6e | walter fwd'd raffael's email to IAEP |
| 15:14 | thanks | |
| 15:14 | walterbender | maybe SL Germany is a collective that includes Simon's program and you are running Sugar Studios within it? |
| 15:15 | Icarito-6f6e: #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ember/014113.html | |
| 15:15 | raffael | It is fine for me - everyone is welcome to join |
| 15:16 | walterbender | raffael: you mentioned a webpage in the wiki? do you have a link you can share? |
| 15:17 | JT4sugar | raffael, I think if you want it to spread in Germany you would start as Sugar Labs Berlin opening up opportunity for others to jump in such as Sugar Labs Stuttgar, etc.t. After a few have formed then an umbrella Sugar Labs Germany makes sense |
| 15:17 | raffael | exactly |
| 15:17 | bernie | raffael: your project is really interesting |
| 15:17 | walterbender | JT4sugar: the Sugar activities in Germany are already more widespread than Berlin and in Berlin, there are several different types of projects. |
| 15:18 | my suggestion is that Simon, Bert, Raffael, et al. establish SL Germany and Raffael runs his Studio program under that umbrella. | |
| 15:18 | raffael | my problem at the moment is, I need to establish a legal institution to start with |
| 15:19 | walterbender | raffael: caa that be SL Germany with the broader mission? |
| 15:19 | JT4sugar | walterbender, If he wants to take on his new project at same time put together other efforts through collaboration with other efforts into a Sugar Labs Germany with help of Bert and Simon then that would seem to work also |
| 15:20 | bernie | raffael: in the past, there have been pilots that took sugar in some form (XO, SoaS, Fedora...), found what works and what doesn't, and customized the sw to their needs. This time i'd like to ask ahead of time that we establish tight communication channels with the developers to get any technical issues fixed for good in the software we release. |
| 15:20 | walterbender | ^caa^can |
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| 15:21 | bernie | raffael: it might not be easy, because pilots work at a different pace and have different priorities from upstream development (school terms VS 6 months release cycles) |
| 15:22 | raffael | found the link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Learning_Studios |
| 15:22 | Icarito-6f6e | i think raffael's entrepreneuring is very welcome, and a formal institution is a great contribution to our ecosystem |
| 15:23 | walterbender | I think we #agreed that the Learning Studios initiative is a very positive contribution to SL |
| 15:24 | we just need to agree to the name and I think we are set to go!! | |
| 15:24 | bernie | Icarito-6f6e: +1 |
| 15:24 | walterbender: i don't remember #agreeing, but i hereby #agree :) | |
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| 15:25 | walterbender | bernie: "your project is really interesting" :P |
| 15:26 | erikos: welcome | |
| 15:26 | erikos | walterbender, hi |
| 15:26 | walterbender | erikos: just wanted your input re Raffael's Learning Studios proposal |
| 15:26 | erikos: because we are trying to come up with a name | |
| 15:26 | erikos | walterbender, what was the url again? |
| 15:27 | walterbender | #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Learning_Studios |
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| 15:27 | bernie | erikos: hey! |
| 15:27 | walterbender | erikos: and #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ember/014113.html |
| 15:27 | bernie | erikos: also http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]eeting/2011-09-23 |
| 15:27 | erikos | hey bernie ! |
| 15:28 | Icarito-6f6e | my opinion regarding regional sugar labs is that if they abide by http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]r_Labs#Principles - there should be no problem calling it SL Germany |
| 15:28 | i.e. there would be explicit ways to become part of and collaborate with the organization | |
| 15:29 | bernie | Icarito-6f6e: agreed |
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| 15:29 | Icarito-6f6e | which is sort of what walterbender was saying about acting as umbrella organization |
| 15:29 | this is a big chore and I feel if raffael is willing to take it on, we should welcome it | |
| 15:29 | SL Global is lucky to have SFC for this | |
| 15:30 | raffael | Sorry, what is SFC? |
| 15:30 | bernie | Icarito-6f6e: Bradley Kuhm would also add that Local Labs shouldn't be doing for-profit activity using the Sugar Labs or SFC marks (if I understood correctly) |
| 15:31 | Icarito-6f6e | of course erikos, silbe, bert, are closer to the issue |
| 15:31 | bernie | raffael: Software Freedom Conservancy |
| 15:31 | walterbender | Icarito-6f6e: why do you say that? |
| 15:31 | bernie | raffael: it's our umbrella foundation |
| 15:31 | Icarito-6f6e | walterbender: why do I say what? |
| 15:32 | bernie | #link http://sfconservancy.org/ |
| 15:32 | walterbender | Icarito-6f6e: say that SFC is against for-profit ? |
| 15:32 | Icarito-6f6e | walterbender: I did not say that, bernie did |
| 15:32 | walterbender | Icarito-6f6e: oops... |
| 15:32 | bernie: why do you say that? | |
| 15:32 | raffael | Only to make this clear I am talking about non-profit here. |
| 15:33 | Icarito-6f6e | bernie, walterbender Somos Azucar is non profit as well, but I remember when Local Labs were originally devised, the door was open for other models |
| 15:33 | walterbender | raffael: I am not sure that matterss... it is OK to be for-profit too |
| 15:34 | Icarito-6f6e | so far local labs have been not-for-profit too |
| 15:34 | bernie | walterbender: he told us not long ago that we shouldn't do for-profit activity under *.sugarlabs.org, or using the SL marks... like, for example, dogi's online shop of Sugar branded merchandise. |
| 15:35 | Icarito-6f6e: i'm 100% in favor of for-profit models. i actually HOPE to see more of them in the future | |
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| 15:36 | JT4sugar | In a business sense you would set up a Non-profit and a for profit and just have them partner and avoid the issue. Or the non-profit sells services but money goes back into non-profit not to invetsors. |
| 15:37 | Raffael maybe go with Sugar Labs Germany and then call your particular project Sugar Studios-Berlin which opens opportunities for names like Sugar Studios-Stuttgart, etc. | |
| 15:37 | Icarito-6f6e | JT4sugar: in places like Peru setting up a non profit can take up to a year |
| 15:37 | lfaraone | It's totally okay to sell stuff as a non-profit, the key must be that all funds raised are reinvested in the business's non-profit mission. |
| 15:38 | raffael | lfarone: correct |
| 15:38 | walterbender | #action Walter will clarify this issue with Bradley |
| 15:39 | but I think lfaraone is correct as well | |
| 15:39 | and I think it has always been the case that we are in favor of for-profit local enterprizes | |
| 15:39 | bernie | lfaraone: yes. this would not count as for-profit activity. |
| 15:39 | walterbender | as per the local labs page in the wiki |
| 15:40 | but back to the name issue... | |
| 15:40 | are we converging on a solution? | |
| 15:40 | Icarito-6f6e | walterbender: while you're at it, it would be interesting to ask SFC if Sugar Labs can engage in contracts, etc internationally as well |
| 15:40 | maybe SFC can be umbrella for us all | |
| 15:40 | walterbender | Icarito-6f6e: as far as I know, the answer is yes |
| 15:40 | Icarito-6f6e: but if there is a more detailed question, I am happy to run it past Bradley | |
| 15:41 | Icarito-6f6e: I am sure we could do some sort of subcontracting arrangement as well, if necessary | |
| 15:42 | bernie | walterbender: anyway, there doesn't seem to be an issue for this particular local lab, as it isn't going to do for-profit activity, is it? |
| 15:43 | Icarito-6f6e | walterbender: ask him this: Is it possible and under what conditions can Sugar Labs (SFC) engage in a contractual relationship with the Peruvian Government? |
| 15:43 | walterbender | #action Walter to ask SFC ^^ |
| 15:44 | cjb | walterbender: was our contract with Slipstream international? |
| 15:44 | walterbender | do we have enough data to decide re SL Germany as a name? |
| 15:44 | cjb: Slipstream is US based, but we have entertained international contracts in the past, e.g., Nokia | |
| 15:45 | cjb: it should not be a problem | |
| 15:45 | cjb | yeah, I agree |
| 15:45 | have we tried just asking erikos/silbe what they think? | |
| 15:45 | walterbender | cjb, Icarito-6f6e I think the question is whether the SFC will sign off for SL contracts or Local Labs contracts |
| 15:46 | cjb: I had asked raffael to have that conversation... | |
| 15:46 | cjb: he spoke with erikos in Berlin at Linux Tag? or some other event, as I recall | |
| 15:46 | cjb | how'd it go? |
| 15:47 | raffael | we did not talk about the name yet |
| 15:47 | walterbender | raffael, erikos should speak for themselves :P |
| 15:47 | cjb | I don't like mediating things like this -- we should just encourage people to get an okay from the other people who might object, I think |
| 15:47 | walterbender | raffael: personally, I think that SL will be happy with whatever the local community decides |
| 15:48 | but as cjb suggests, we shouldn't make that decision for you | |
| 15:48 | bernie | walterbender: +1 |
| 15:48 | Icarito-6f6e | I think if erikos or silbe had objected they'd have said something by now |
| 15:48 | bernie | cjb: right |
| 15:49 | cjb | cool, okay. So, raffael, please send a mail to the other German SL folks saying that you would like to take on "Sugar Labs Germany" and ask for whether they are +1 or -1 on it |
| 15:49 | erikos | what is actually the benefit of calling it sugarlabs germany? |
| 15:49 | cjb | if they all reply +1, I think we can consider it done; no-one here objects |
| 15:49 | walterbender | cjb: we can pass a motion even by email... |
| 15:49 | erikos | it seems to me, to be a local entitiy only that deals with a specific task |
| 15:50 | Icarito-6f6e | all the other local labs are called by their country name... |
| 15:50 | umm not all sorry | |
| 15:52 | bernie | Icarito-6f6e: nope, there's also Sugar Labs DC (Washington DC) |
| 15:52 | erikos | i would not use such a big term like country if my work is only relevant for a small portion of the country itself |
| 15:52 | raffael | erikos: but the intention is much broader |
| 15:52 | erikos | if someone in Munich wants to do a lab he might be stopped by that |
| 15:53 | raffael, you can always enlarge later, I guess | |
| 15:53 | raffael | no, he could simply join in |
| 15:53 | erikos | I would start small |
| 15:53 | bernie | erikos: otoh, calling it SL Germany might attract more people later, thus making it become what the name suggests later on |
| 15:53 | erikos | raffael, but he would have to deal with your lab first |
| 15:53 | Icarito-6f6e | erikos: i don't think somebody interested in making a lab would be stopped by something like that |
| 15:54 | bernie | (unless of course there's another group right now who wants to claim the nation-wide lab for Germany) |
| 15:54 | walterbender | It could be argued either way... but it could be nice to have an umbrella in Germany to help promote everyone's efforts |
| 15:54 | raffael | as you know I see it as some kind of blueprint - of course i have to start with one |
| 15:55 | erikos | personally, I like to start small |
| 15:55 | easier to fulfill the promisses then | |
| 15:55 | just my 2 cents | |
| 15:55 | bernie | erikos: ah, i see your point as well |
| 15:55 | cjb | erikos: have any specific naming suggestions? |
| 15:56 | erikos | cjb, Sugar Labs Berlin |
| 15:56 | for example | |
| 15:56 | cjb | that sounds pretty reasonable |
| 15:57 | walterbender | the other approach would be projects under a country-wide organization... |
| 15:57 | JT4sugar | raffael, If you choose Sugar Labs Germany think it's very important to then say you are setting up Sugar Studios-Berlin to leave open opportunity for others to create locally named studios |
| 15:57 | bernie | erikos: this name might discourage other german people from joining, though |
| 15:57 | raffael | one point ... maybe to be described more elaborate offline. labs are only working if someone pays the rent - no legal institution, no nationwide name, no nationwide funds |
| 15:58 | erikos | bernie, ok, that's a point |
| 15:59 | walterbender | it seems that there is so much positive energy in .de that we should have a national group |
| 15:59 | bernie | raffael, erikos: i think the SLOBs could pre-approve the creation of the lab before there's an agreement about the name |
| 15:59 | cjb | erikos: perhaps everyone involved in SL in .de could set up a national group together, first |
| 15:59 | and then raffael's studio could be a part of it? | |
| 15:59 | walterbender | cjb: +1 with individual projects with in it... |
| 15:59 | bernie | raffael, erikos: after all, it's about trusting a certain group of people, not a specific name |
| 16:00 | this way we can move the name discussion offline | |
| 16:01 | erikos | cjb, would be an option indeed |
| 16:01 | there is as well olpc-de... | |
| 16:01 | raffael | I am member there too |
| 16:02 | Icarito-6f6e | in Peru we've innoculated ourselves from this by calling us "Somos Azucar - Sugar Labs Peru" |
| 16:02 | cjb | raffael: does that sound good to you, setting up SL Germany as encompassing everyone's work, including yours? |
| 16:02 | walterbender | needs to disappear for 5 minutes... please continue |
| 16:02 | erikos | just saying, they already do not really know what to do with their time ;p |
| 16:02 | Icarito-6f6e | we wanted to leave the door open for other groups as well |
| 16:03 | raffael | erikos: that is part of the problem |
| 16:04 | erikos | raffael, you may be even able to run your lab under their umbrella |
| 16:04 | raffael, that way they might get involved... | |
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| 16:08 | Icarito-6f6e | Peru team would like to request the board's time for next meeting, also regarding possible contracting with the government, who can help us from SL side of things? |
| 16:08 | walterbender | is back |
| 16:09 | bernie | i'm afraid i have to leave |
| 16:09 | walterbender | Icarito-6f6e: OK... I'll put it on the agenda for next week |
| 16:09 | bernie | did we have anything else in the agenda? |
| 16:09 | Icarito-6f6e | there is a movement to create SL Latinamerica we could discuss |
| 16:10 | bernie | I'd like to discuss the team reports next time |
| 16:10 | walterbender | next week, I am running a workshop on Friday, but I think I can schedule things such that I break at 15UTC |
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| 16:10 | walterbender | bernie: OK... more than we discussed last week? any particular focus? |
| 16:11 | JT4sugar | walterbender, Are the local lab reports in and are they posted? |
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| 16:11 | walterbender | so, re names, can we task erikos and raffael to discuss between now and next week and come to us with a proposal? |
| 16:12 | raffael_ | I will try |
| 16:12 | walterbender | JT4sugar: there are links from the minutes page I posted on w.sl.o |
| 16:12 | JT4sugar | walterbender, OK thanks |
| 16:12 | walterbender | #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/O[…]inutes-2011-09-16 |
| 16:12 | bernie | walterbender: i've read Sean Daly's report and he seems to have many blocking issues, we should try to address some of them |
| 16:13 | erikos has quit IRC | |
| 16:13 | walterbender | to be continued next week? |
| 16:13 | bernie: +1. I'll see if he can join us next week | |
| 16:13 | anything else pressing for today? | |
| 16:13 | bernie | walterbender: iirc, one issue is with the infrastructure, one is with development, and one is a budget issue |
| 16:14 | walterbender | Icarito-6f6e: I'd like to discuss you suggestion of beefing up what SL central can do for local labs... maybe we can come up with a concrete proposal |
| 16:14 | bernie | ok let's endmeeting for now |
| 16:14 | walterbender | OK... |
| 16:14 | 3 | |
| 16:14 | Icarito-6f6e | walterbender: we can dicuss more next meeting about this |
| 16:14 | thanks! | |
| 16:15 | walterbender | 2 |
| 16:15 | 1 | |
| 16:15 | thanks all... until next week... see you in #sugar :) | |
| 16:15 | #end-meeting | |
| 16:15 | meeting | Meeting ended Fri Sep 23 16:15:31 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 16:15 | Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-23T15:03:50.html | |
| 16:15 | Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-09-23T15:03:50 | |
| 16:15 | raffael_ | bye from berlin |
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