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#olpc-admin, 2008-10-28

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Time Nick Message
16:02 hhardy    *  Hhardy: Talk to Princeton + Google about CoralCDN
16:02    * Hhardy: dev needs to be documented
16:02    * Hhardy: prepare 2 network diagrams, current and future
16:02    * MelChua: internalwiki
16:02    * MelChua: gforge
16:02    * Lfarone: openid
16:02    * Dogi: meeting.laptop.org and other channels
16:02    * new businesses
16:02 also Dogi has got his meet bot working now
16:02 Dogi want to say something about it? how it is improved from meetbot?
16:03 dogi so basically for now is an exact copy of meetbot
16:03 this was the first step
16:03 hhardy but it now allows 20 lines before it bans for floding :)
16:03 dogi the logs now are on meeting.laptop.org
16:04 hhardy meeting.l.o is where it lives for now right?
16:04 yep
16:04 dogi #LINK http://meeting.laptop.org
16:05 next step is to have that automatically writing into the wiki
16:05 hhardy as far as agenda adric did you want to say anything about rt this week?
16:05 dogi: aye that will be cool
16:05 adric I can make a brief statement, yeah
16:06 hhardy is it better to take that now or at end of mtng?
16:07 ok we take it at end then if ok
16:07 as for coralcdn, its very very slow is my impression
16:07 dogi my question is are there channels what would like to use meeing bot too?
16:07 hhardy seems like olpc-meeting is a logical place
16:08 maybe send a note about it to devel and tech-team as well as olpc-sysadmin?
16:08 dogi ok
16:09 hhardy #topic Hhardy: Talk to Princeton + Google about CoralCDN
16:09 cjl dogi: you can also ask sugar folks about #sugar-meeting
16:09 hhardy #TOPIC Hhardy: Talk to Princeton + Google about CoralCDN
16:09 #TOPIC Hhardy Talk to Princeton + Google about CoralCDN
16:09 hmmm seems not to take
16:09 cjl hhardy: is hte idea to have many pages cached or jsut a few?
16:09 hhardy anyway
16:10 the main pages I would think
16:10 I like the idea of torrent seeding better really
16:10 per the plan on the VIG front page
16:12 #topic Hhardy: dev needs to be documented
16:12 yep it does, not done tho
16:12 same for
16:12 #topic Hhardy: prepare 2 network diagrams, current and future
16:13 mel anything to report on this?
16:13 cjl If this is meant to help take some server load off from Uruguay hits, it won't do that unless the links in the Browse activity are switched to include .nyud.net or do I have this wrong?
16:13 sorry, was still on previous topic.
16:13 hhardy cjl: yes
16:13 and its very very slow
16:14 dogi but that net can take a lot of load ... or i m wrong?
16:14 hhardy yes
16:14 yes you are correct dogi
16:14 I doubt it has more capacity than MIT's tho
16:15 but our servers are finite
16:15 per Kim and Ed we will devote more resources to getting the hot mirrors of crank and pedal up and installed
16:15 then I can put the 16 GB of memory for pedal in
16:16 dogi so maybe we use that feature when we need it, like a mounth ago with uruguay by changing there dns ...
16:16 hhardy then we can use memcached
16:17 the mirror of dev is up for testing at
16:18 mchua yes, re: internalwiki - it's currently using an old, old mediawiki build
16:18 _bernie hhardy: ho do you sync the db?
16:18 hhardy please let me know anything wrong there
16:18 rsync from grinch via cron.daily
16:18 one problem is I need to change the script to preserve uid and gid instead of setting unknowns to root
16:18 that is grinch pulls it over via rsync
16:19 mchua we'd like to upgrade internalwiki to something more recent than 1.6.5 (from 2006) so we can have features like sortable tables
16:19 hhardy hi mel, floor is yours
16:19 mchua hhardy: (thanks)
16:19 we'd like to get an idea of what it would take / what risks there would be associated with an upgrade, since it's quite a leap
16:20 dogi kimquirk: if u want to read back http://meeting.laptop.org/olpc[…]0081028_1601.html
16:20 mchua and this is a private wiki, and it's very important that the data stay that way
16:20 can anybody help with this, suggest what we might do, etc?
16:20 cjl mchua are you talking teamwiki or the mysterious third internal wiki?
16:20 mchua cjl: the latter
16:20 cjl k
16:21 What is rate of editting on it?
16:21 mchua (publicwiki and teamwiki are both at recent 1.13 mediawiki builds)
16:22 cjl: quite low, and there are very few users on it - looking at the stats now
16:22 cjl What is level on reliance on viewing it (day-today).  How critical is it if it goes down for a few days?
16:23 mchua looking at logs, usually less than 10 pages are edited per day, by a max of 4 users or so
16:23 hhardy if fully backed up risk is minimal
16:23 cjl Relatively low risk to take an image, do the update, test and restore if you don't like what you see.  Assuming you klnow you can do the restore . . . too late to find out it doesn't work after.
16:25 hhardy mchua: I think there's a general consensus this is a good thing, do you want to post an rt ticket on it?
16:25 cjl What sort of tools does Mediawiki provide to facilitate back-up restore for MW wikis?
16:25 hhardy or there is one, let me check
16:25 mchua hhardy: yes - kimquirk, do you have any preference as to who works on this ticket? (should it be me/henry/another employee, or can a VIG member help with this?)
16:25 hhardy sj or seth also could do
16:26 cjl mchua probably can't be VIG member, it is a private wiki.
16:26 _bernie cjl: what else do you need besides dumping the db and saving the img directory?
16:26 hhardy cjl: yes
16:26 http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Backup
16:27 #LINK http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Backup
16:27 kimquirk mchua: vig is my preference
16:27 lfaraone How about this...
16:27 cjl _bernie: Probably nothing, I don't host a wik myselfi, I was just speculating that MW might have some experience with backing up/restoring/migrating that they would have shared.
16:27 lfaraone We clone the wiki.
16:28 hhardy kim, it would mean privileged access to teamwiki and internalwiki
16:28 lfaraone We make this clone not-world-readable.
16:28 (so that nobody outside of 1cc can view it (unless you tunnel through dlo or something)
16:28 We upgrade it, and check that all the security features work.
16:28 If we like, we migrate.
16:29 hhardy I would like an employee to oversee this, mel do you have time for that seems you are pretty busy?
16:29 and who VIG folk want to assist?
16:29 lfaraone hhardy: Well, I'd like to.
16:29 hhardy: I've played around a lot with MediaWiki
16:30 kimquirk hhardy: mchua - not vig, then... needs to get on the RT list
16:30 mchua hhardy, kimquirk: it doesn't need access to the info on the wiki per se - see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/[…]pgrading_to_1.13; it's all data dumping
16:31 that having been said, it would be *way* easier to upgrade, check all is working, etc. with access to the wiki, but I think a VIG member could do it and just ping me/hhardy/sj/seth with "done pls look at this page" stuff
16:31 kimquirk mchua: agreed
16:31 there are people who can test after it has been done
16:32 lfaraone kimquirk: although the VIG member could _theoretically_ look at the dump.
16:32 hhardy mchua: is there a ticket on this, seems related to @22985
16:32 mchua hey, we all signed SAGE code of ethics for a reason :)
16:32 lfaraone mchua: this is NDA'd stuff.
16:33 (and worse, I'd assume)
16:33 adric what he said.
16:33 hhardy I suggest mel you write ticket for tthis and let kim assign it and prioritize?
16:33 mchua hhardy: related but a different issue - #22985 is closed (thanks!) but didn't require a mw upgrade to work, just php tweaking
16:33 kimquirk hhardy: we need to separate the wiki -- public facing and VIG manageable, from private wiki
16:33 I think that means different machines... doesn't it?
16:34 hhardy kimquirk: ideally but not necessarily
16:34 mchua hhardy: I'll write a ticket (will wait for this discussion to finish first)
16:34 hhardy could be different virtual servers
16:35 mchua hhardy: just fyi, I don't have the bandwidth to do this myself right now, but I can test the upgrade once whoever does it is done, since there are some things I want to do for qa/support on internalwiki that depend on the upgrade anyway
16:36 for ticketwriting - kimquirk, hhardy, et al, do we have consensus on whether this can be a VIG job or whether it must absolutely be internal?
16:36 hhardy it isnt a consensus decision its a policy matter for kim
16:37 kimquirk but I don't understand the security implications... if the person who does the upgrade has access to all the information, then it is a security problem.
16:37 hhardy my suggestion is we have an olpc employee own this and take responsibility for it
16:37 kimquirk what is the work effort?
16:37 hhardy kimquirk: it would be copying the entire database
16:37 kimquirk how long will it take
16:38 hhardy when sj and I did the last upgrades it didn't take that long few hours to do it and test
16:38 if it breaks things as we have also done then it takes maybe 8 hours to revert max
16:39 mel, agree?
16:39 mel did 22985 very fast once I gave her access
16:40 cjl kimquirk: The directions are laid out here http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/[…]Upgrading_to_1.13 This is not a whole lot of steps,  I imagine the longest time is waiting for things to finish (with hopefully low risk of larger time investment if it all goes bad, of course)
16:41 kimquirk cjl: thanks!
16:42 cjl I would argue that allocating Mchua's time to do it (assuming interst) also serves the OLPC purpose of having more mediawiki savvy expertise developing (as backup on main wikis).
16:43 hhardy #LINK http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/[…]Upgrading_to_1.13
16:43 cjl If OLPC is going to lean heaviliy on mediawiki wikis (and you do), then more people internally that have experience walking through the maintenance tasks (like an upgrade) the better.
16:43 hhardy mel can you talk about what the upgrade will allow us to do in terms of benefit for olpc?
16:45 mchua well, the upgrade is for internalwiki, so it will benefit a relatively small # of people (olpc employees)
16:45 hhardy #LINK http://svn.wikimedia.org/svnro[…]se3/RELEASE-NOTES
16:45 mchua but that wiki as a shared internal repository for extremely private, NDA'd information is an important thing to have
16:45 _bernie cjl: as a matter of fact, I also have to upgrade sugarlab's mediawiki from 1.12 to 1.13 one day or another
16:46 mchua upgrading to a less-than-2-years-old version of mediawiki would allow us to use more recent plugins/features to manage the data on it - specifically, sortable tables for some pages with large amounts of data
16:47 hhardy bernie are you still NDA'ed?
16:47 cjl _bernie: There is no teacher like experience :-)  
16:47 _bernie mchua: we should also setup openid as a starting step to sharing users between all these wikis
16:47 cjl: heh :)
16:48 hhardy: no, I never was...
16:48 hhardy luke has been pushing me on the open id thing and I'm not opposed
16:48 _bernie hhardy: I have some experience with it
16:48 not with mediawiki though
16:48 hhardy let's take the further discussion of openid
16:49 lfaraone _bernie: I'd be happy to help implement it on the public wikis.
16:49 hhardy #topic Lfarone: openid
16:49 lfaraone hhardy: It's "Faraone", but whatever :P
16:49 hhardy lfaraone sent me link to article about msft and openid
16:49 mchua hhardy, kimquirk - re: internalwiki upgrade, I'll make a ticket, cc you both, and we can take discussion there
16:49 kimquirk ok
16:49 hhardy sorry lf
16:49 lfaraone hhardy: np.
16:50 dogi sorry :P
16:50 lfaraone #link http://www.readwriteweb.com/ar[…]s_live_openid.php
16:51 hhardy heh beat me to it
16:51 so by that it seems it will become defacto single signin standard
16:51 _bernie lfaraone: cool
16:51 lfaraone _bernie: Very.
16:51 _bernie finally
16:52 hhardy so is there general agreement that as we update things we will add openid support if it can be done in a secure way with minimal effort?
16:53 objections?
16:53 cjl hhardy: forward compliance with standards (even still emerging, but promising ones like OpenID) seems like a sensible move.
16:54 lfaraone objects!
16:54 (Kidding)
16:54 hhardy #AGREED so is there general agreement that as we update things we will  add openid support if it can be done in a secure way with  minimal effort?
16:54 agree with plus-1
16:54 dogi +1
16:54 hhardy +1
16:54 cjl +1
16:54 mchua +1
16:55 lfaraone +1
16:55 _bernie +1
16:55 mchua question: we are talking publicwiki first, right?
16:55 is4 +1
16:55 lfaraone mchua: Yes.
16:55 hhardy mchua: yes
16:55 mchua cool, thanks.
16:55 _bernie I will do the same for sugarlabs. At this time I can't create new accounts on solarsail.
16:56 adric +1
16:56 hhardy seems like rough consensus, now for the working code part :)
16:56 lfaraone _bernie: well, I had an account on trinity.
16:57 _bernie: did SL leave them?
16:57 hhardy #TOPIC MelChua: gforge
16:57 mchua, floor is your re: gforge
16:57 I want to revisit blessing this project per gregdek
16:58 mchua gforge is now gitorious
16:58 lfaraone mchua: Now, does gitorious have bug tracking?
16:58 mchua the lead dev of gitorious.org, Johan, has offered (independently, as a volunteer) to make it work for olpc volunteers
16:58 lfaraone #link http://gitorious.org/
16:59 (Oh, and they support OpenID, btw :)
16:59 mchua his group does not expect this to be official in any way, or require any OLPC resources - it was a standalone effort they were just giving us a heads-up on
16:59 we came to the conclusion last week, iirc, that gforge or a gforge-like project couldn't be an official VIG undertaking
17:00 hhardy huge rainbow over boston
17:00 mchua but that doesn't rule out the potential for blessing something else that 'grows up' outside VIG, if it works, retroactively
17:00 lfaraone: I don't believe it has bugtracking, no
17:01 hhardy I'd rather folks work on trak and git and our build system but its great to see the commuity generating these projects
17:01 time
17:01 mchua lfaraone: I think the idea was to use gitorious for repo hosting alone, and use existing (or different) infrastructure for bugtracking, but can ask Johan if VIG feels that knowing these details is important
17:01 lfaraone hhardy: on that note, could you give some of us in said community the ability to grease those wheels? (magic create-branch/trac rights)
17:02 hhardy lfaraone: make ticket
17:02 lfaraone has to be going, >dinner
17:02 hhardy: Will do.
17:02 _bernie lfaraone: yes, we still have the accounts on trinity, but the wiki is now hosted on solarsail
17:02 hhardy noah was going to maintain trac but I think he can't make these meetings
17:02 lfaraone _bernie: ah, kk
17:03 mchua hhardy: I'd suggest we say "great, go ahead, we can't put resources into this now but if you want to do it on your own please keep us posted", then stand back
17:03 hhardy I am not sure how much he is still involved, will need to ping him
17:03 mchua hhardy: if they make it work, and they get back to us and demonstrate that, then we can bring the "blessing" topic up again
17:03 but no sense in discussing it now since it isn't clear this will succeed yet
17:03 _bernie lfaraone: we moved a few services there becauuse it offered more bandwidth, more reliability and more horsepower (it's a sun niagara with 32 processors)
17:03 hhardy #ACTION ITEM ask noah status of trac
17:04 #topic Dogi: meeting.laptop.org and other channels
17:04 Dogi anything further on meeting bot?
17:05 #ACTION ITEM: Dogi to document meeting bot on wiki
17:06 any new business?
17:06 cjl hhardy: time to revisit adric and RT?
17:06 hhardy oh dear yes
17:06 dogi ok
17:06 hhardy #TOPIC RT
17:07 adric So, time has passed and G1G1 2008 looms. We need to retriage our priorities for what we want and and need to do before 17 nov.
17:08 I really would like to see some input on categories, or we'll just run with the ones we have.
17:09 upgrade to 3.8 before then is no longer reasonable.
17:09 cjl kimquirk: How can we balance input from SG'ers (who know what the categories are because they handle the tickets) and 1CC which has business requirements for summarized info from RT?
17:09 adric Spam changes .. *shrug* .. unless someone produces some new magic..
17:09 mchua adric: I would like to have a categories overhaul, but I think we disagreed last time as to what the magnitude/effort required for that overhaul would be
17:10 adric mchua: Let's call a meeting and let everyone shout about it at once for a little while.
17:10 hhardy Sunday at the s-g mtng?
17:10 adric Will that be accessible enough?
17:11 Maybe two meetings, in one week. and then fight it out after?
17:11 cjl I'm not convinced tah talking about it will help a whole lot, it needs to be written about.  No one is going to reel off a list of 27 categories tha everyone likes.
17:11 Not that anyone would be given the floor long enough t orattle off the categories anyway :-)
17:12 hhardy maybe a shared google doc as a working list of categories?
17:12 cjl kimquirk: How can we balance input from SG'ers (who know what the categories are because they handle the tickets) and 1CC which has business requirements for summarized info from RT?
17:12 mchua proposal: can we, at the s-g meeting, toss out ideas as adric said for a while, then delegate a max-5 person working group to summarize discussion into a draft categories list within 24 hours of meeting end,
17:12 adric cjl: Agree agree. I was waiting for a primer from mgmt, but we didn't get one.
17:12 hhardy also to clarify are we talking catagories for the help queue here?
17:13 mchua leave that list open for commentary by s-g for a week, and then get the final list okayed/edited by 1cc  people with business requirements ( kimquirk  and reubencaron and myself - who else? )
17:13 hhardy I have rt http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=22018
17:13 cjl hhardy: I think that ther should probably be a single set of categories for help volunteer and content.  reality is requestors use them fairly willy-nilly.
17:13 hhardy but I would welcome help with that from VIG
17:13 so add comments to that ticket
17:13 cjl That is as good as anywhere, will do.
17:13 hhardy cjl: fine if achievable without too much argumentation
17:14 mchua oh: before the s-g meeting, 1cc people with business needs should lay out specs/requirements for a category system that the discussion can then limit itself to using
17:14 adric Motion for mchua's plan?
17:14 Yeah, they should have.
17:14 lfaraone +1
17:15 cjl +1
17:15 hhardy #AGREED can we, at the s-g meeting, toss out ideas as adric  said for a while, then delegate a max-5 person working group to  summarize discussion into a draft categories list within 24  hours of meeting end,
17:15 mchua if the decision by either s-g or 1cc folks with biz reqs is, at any point, "we really can't use the same category queue," we'll split and each group can do whatever on their own, but I think combining the two would be best, if we can
17:15 adric +1
17:15 mchua hhardy: I'll grab the lines into one coherent paragraph and pastebin
17:15 hhardy #VOTE can we, at the s-g meeting, toss out ideas as adric  said for a while, then delegate a max-5 person working group to  summarize discussion into a draft categories list within 24  hours of meeting end,
17:16 cjl +1
17:16 hhardy +1
17:17 lfaraone hhardy: #VOTE isn't a command, afaict.
17:17 dogi +1
17:17 hhardy dogi said it is :/ lol
17:17 cjl #AGREED can we, at the s-g meeting, toss out ideas as adric  said for a while, then delegate a max-5 person working group to summarize discussion into a draft categories list within 24 hours of meeting end,
17:17 adric One offtopic question... When does the press blitz for G1G! start, and where is the press kit?
17:17 dogi new version of mootbot is out ... :)
17:18 lfaraone cjl: and only the chair, hhardy , can put forward #AGREED
17:18 mchua hhardy: http://pastebin.ca/1239006
17:18 hhardy adric: major efforts underway but can't tell you specifics
17:18 adric hhardy: Great, want my eps for the business cards?
17:18 hhardy soon
17:18 eps?
17:18 postscript?
17:19 adric hhardy: Image here: http://adric.livejournal.com/2[…]4.html?mode=reply
17:19 hhardy spearhead for the publicity effort is aaron@l.o Aaron Royer
17:20 adric: nice
17:20 tho I like my sideways ones
17:20 cjl adric I have about 50 sheets of really nice glossy HP paper that would work great for color printed cards.
17:20 adric sideways?
17:20 hhardy yeah rotate 90 degrees
17:21 adric cjl: http://dev.atlbbs.com/g1g12008.eps
17:21 sound neat :)
17:21 lfaraone hhardy: git and trac ticket: http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=23069
17:22 hhardy lfarAone: thx
17:22 final note, we have talked about doing a VIG FTF at fudcon in Jan
17:23 #LINK http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon/FUDConF10
17:23 someone want to spearhead planning that?
17:23 LINK: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon/FUDConF11
17:23 #LINK: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon/FUDConF11
17:23 f10 was last summer :)
17:23 lfaraone hhardy: right the first time.
17:23 (syntax)
17:24 hhardy anyway if we can come with a reasonable plan I will see if we have some resources to support some activities
17:24 cjl hhardy: I want to ask how you think VIG is going.  Does it show potential to a) take things off your plate or b) get things done without them landing on your plate or is it C) come up with more stuff to land on hhardy's plate?
17:24 hhardy we should start planning soon before g1g1 descends
17:25 adric Having a date more than a few weeks out would be nice for once :D
17:25 hhardy mostly it is very useful as a sounding board and reality check for me
17:25 cjl hhardy: That is a useful role.
17:26 hhardy its going to take a while to gel but I am very happy with progress so far
17:26 lfaraone hhardy: It'd be nice if we can do the FTF somewhere around a thurs/fri/sat
17:26 sat prefered
17:26 hhardy noted
17:26 we have run 90 min so closing formal meeting now ok?
17:27 mchua +1
17:27 hhardy ---END---
17:27 good meeting
17:27 lfaraone hhardy: it's #endmeeting
17:27 dogi :)
17:27 adric Not too bad .. thanks folks. I gotta hop int he shower, bt I'll check scrollback later
17:28 lfaraone hhardy: and you have to say it.
17:28 hhardy #endmeeting

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