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#treehouse, 2011-02-15

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21:00 meeting Meeting started Tue Feb 15 21:00:56 2011 UTC. The chair is dogi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:00 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
21:01 dogi #info Date: 2011-02-15
21:01 #info Time: 20:00 UTC (16:00 EST, 22:00 CET)
21:01 #info Agenda: http://openetherpad.org/BXH8LOrtQT
21:01 #info Location: #treehouse on irc.oftc.net
21:01 #link http://bit.ly/hi2BrA
21:01 #topic last meeting
21:01 #info Usefull Links:
21:01 #info LastAgenda:
21:01 #link http://openetherpad.org/md6SQKy996
21:01 #info LastLog:
21:01 #link http://meeting.treehouse.su/treehouse/2011-02-01
21:01 #info LastMinutes:
21:01 #link http://bit.ly/fTfMcT
21:01 #info NextAgenda:
21:01 #link http://openetherpad.org/GQeZRa0CrS
21:02 #info actioncheck
21:02 #done template-maverick - dogi
21:02 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/M[…]template-maverick
21:02 #topic agenda
21:02 #info * sugar in browser
21:02 #info * www.sl.o redesign
21:02 #info * pootle migration
21:02 #info * unmaintianed sevices
21:02 #info * wanted services
21:02 #info * found bugs
21:02 #info * server hardware update
21:02 #info * access fairy & homework
21:03 _bernie, alsroot CanoeBerry CanoeBerry dirakx djbclark erikg erikos FGrose JasonWoof  kevix  silbe  SMParrish  anything to add?
21:04 silbe VM or similar for new OpenID provider
21:04 dirakx dogi: I have to add a request to upgrade pootle and translate toolkit
21:05 erikos dogi, so, yeah I am interested in the pootle migration topic including issues that have been introduced with this
21:06 dogi kevix, where is olpcbot source code
21:06 silbe, add this under the topic wanted services
21:06 dirakx, erikos sure
21:06 kevix dogi: didnt I give you the url?
21:07 dogi yes but I lost it :P
21:07 kevix ok.
21:07 silbe dogi: ok
21:07 dogi #topic sugar in browser
21:07 #link http://one.treehouse.su/gar.ht[…]ehouse.su&port=80
21:07 #info the passwd is still the one of http://sugarbush.media.mit.edu/
21:07 #info this is a ubuntu 10.10 with
21:07 #link https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/m[…]buntu-sugar-remix
21:07 #action dogi: same with debian sqeeze
21:07 #action dogi: same with fedora 14
21:07 #info need some help with Xvnc
21:07 #info display :1 is normal gnome and not sugar
21:09 is searching soebody with Xvnc knowledge
21:09 _bernie dogi: sorry, i'll have to drop out in less than 10 minutes...
21:10 kevix http://mysite.verizon.net/kevi[…]rk/newolpcbot.tar
21:10 dogi erikos, do you know why when I export an other display then :0 I boot normal Gnome and not sugardesktop
21:10 silbe _bernie: ok, let's discuss Pootle first then?
21:10 dogi +1 silbe
21:10 ty kevix
21:10 erikos dogi, no, sorry :/
21:11 dogi erikos, who can tell me that?
21:11 silbe dogi: try checking what actually gets executed - if you use "vncserver", it's usually ~/.vnc/xstartup
21:11 _bernie silbe: oh, i was talking about it with dirakx on #sugar just a while ago:
21:11 dogi #topic pootle migration
21:11 #info situation
21:11 #info bernie upgraded pootleVM to a newer version of ubuntu
21:11 #info and pootle
21:11 reboot   system boot  2.6.31-22-server Mon Feb 14 01:36 - 15:09 (1+13:33)
21:11 reboot   system boot  2.6.31-22-server Mon Feb 14 01:35 - 15:09 (1+13:34)
21:11 reboot   system boot  2.6.31-22-server Mon Feb 14 01:09 - 15:09 (1+14:00)
21:11 _bernie <bernie> dirakx: those are the latest releases packaged in ubuntu. to upgrade further, we'd have to create our own packages or install by hand
21:11 <dirakx> bernie: 2.1.0
21:11 <bernie> dirakx: ah, i see. well, we need to perform a manual installation probably
21:11 <dirakx> bernie: :(.
21:11 <bernie> dirakx: could you try that out? you can use the pootle vm, if you want, but please do it in another directory without disturbing the production instance until we're ready to switch
21:11 <dirakx> bernie: will do np
21:12 dirakx in fact is 2.1.5..
21:12 dogi _bernie, what do we do with the booting issue?
21:12 erikos dirakx, so you want to upgrade to the latest latest by hand?
21:13 dogi erikos, which is the version of pootle we need to have?
21:13 dirakx erikos: that's the only otion i guess.
21:14 dogi does not belief in the newest ... only in the most stable version
21:14 dirakx Pootle 2.1.5 & Translate Toolkit 1.8.1 released -- Ubuntu PPA: https://launchpad.net/~transla[…]g.za/+archive/ppa -- Fedora: yum --enablerepo=updates-testing install pootle
21:14 _bernie dogi: i'd try to move the vm out of the hard-file, into a normal partition
21:14 dogi: then, we can boot from externally provided kernel, without grub-de-merd.
21:15 erikos dogi, http://bugs.locamotion.org/sho[…]ug.cgi?id=1821#c6 we tried to find out for the issue we were seeing
21:15 replaceafill <replaceafill!~replaceaf@> has joined #treehouse
21:15 erikos dogi, but had no reply yet
21:15 dogi #link http://bugs.locamotion.org/sho[…]ug.cgi?id=1821#c6
21:16 _bernie, new VM or fix the old one ... that is the question
21:16 erikos dogi, and the devs said it would be wise to update (2.0.6 or 2.0.5)
21:16 _bernie dogi: same vm, different disk
21:16 dogi _bernie, +1
21:16 erikos dogi, and as 2.0.5 was the only one that was available in debian - bernie did that
21:16 _bernie dogi: "same person, different brain" ;-)
21:16 dogi #info the devs said it would be wise to update (2.0.6 or 2.0.5)
21:17 _bernie restarts apache on sunjammer for the openssl security update
21:17 dogi #action dogi/_bernie move pootleVM into lvm without grub
21:18 _bernie dogi: i have a recipe in the wiki :)
21:18 dogi erikos, dirakx when is the best time for such work?
21:18 _bernie, can you post the link?
21:19 dirakx erikos: dogi maybe weekend sometime ? .
21:19 erikos dirakx, I think anytime is fine - just let the translations list know
21:20 dirakx erikos: reading the bug info it seems that could be a Translate toolkit issue. maybe?.
21:20 dogi the list mail is ?
21:20 dirakx dogi: localization@laptop.org
21:21 dogi ty
21:21 other pootle related things we should discuss?
21:21 _bernie dogi: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]e_virtual_machine
21:21 dirakx localization@lists.laptop.org
21:21 _bernie #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]e_virtual_machine
21:21 dogi _bernie, ty
21:21 erikos dogi, http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/localization
21:22 dogi #info translation list
21:22 _bernie dogi: see "How to migrate a file-based guest to LVM (offline method)"
21:22 dogi #link http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/localization
21:22 erikos dogi, well, what is the plan to move forward now?
21:22 _bernie -> eye doctor
21:22 erikos _bernie, good luck!
21:22 silbe _bernie: good luck
21:22 dogi :) have fun _bernie
21:23 dirakx _bernie:good luck!
21:23 dogi erikos, for what I understand there are 2 problems
21:23 one is that pootleVM is not automatically booting
21:24 _bernie, and /me had to boot by hand over an VNC ... with a lot of shellgrubvoodoo
21:24 to convince to pootle to boot
21:25 we will fix this over the weekend or when we have time
21:25 the other problem is
21:25 erikos dogi, ok, that sounds good
21:25 dogi pootle itself
21:25 erikos dogi, and the second issue is pootle itself
21:25 right
21:25 dogi we have now 2.0.5  right?
21:25 dirakx 2.0.1
21:25 dogi ok
21:26 erikos dirakx, sure?
21:26 dirakx erikos: yep
21:26 dogi and we want something which is newer
21:26 erikos dirakx, I thought bernie did the update
21:26 dirakx About Pootle
21:26 This site is running Pootle — powerful web software to empower teams to do translation and translation management. This community tool is Free Software, and any team can use it and contribute to the Pootle community. Read more on the project website.
21:26 Pootle 2.0.1 is powered by Translate Toolkit 1.7.0
21:26 erikos: we have an older version..IIRC.
21:27 erikos: oh I got you now.
21:28 that version is what pootle displays ATM..bernie could have more info on the *actual* version.
21:28 dogi erikos, dirakx is that what _bernie did already fine?
21:28 or do we need more?
21:29 erikos I logged into the server, how do I find out?
21:29 dirakx dogi: I guess we have more info on the actual versions both of pootle and translate toolkit installed.
21:30 erikos: maybe /etc/pootle something ..
21:30 dogi hi replaceafill
21:31 replaceafill hello dogi
21:31 dogi replaceafill, back log http://meeting.treehouse.su/treehouse/2011-02-15
21:31 _bernie, dogi are fixing the VM
21:32 and dirakx erikos gonzalo ... find out if that what we have is already enough
21:32 erikos erikos@pootle:~$ PootleServer --version
21:32 Pootle 2.0.1
21:32 Translate Toolkit 1.7.0
21:32 Django 1.1.1
21:33 erikos@pootle:~$ moz2po --version
21:33 moz2po 1.7.0
21:33 dogi, enough info? ;p
21:33 dirakx :P
21:33 erikos is a pootle sysadmin now ;)
21:33 dogi #info actual pootle version Pootle 2.0.1, Translate Toolkit 1.7.0, Django 1.1.1, moz2po 1.7.0
21:33 erikos, ty
21:34 granted erikos first sysadmin karma points
21:34 erikos :)
21:34 dogi, so I think we need to get more info from bernie what he did
21:34 silbe erikos: thanks for taking care of Pootle!
21:35 dirakx +1
21:35 dogi :) lots of manual changes
21:37 erikos, since you request pootle update
21:37 is this version the one you wanted?
21:37 erikos dogi, no, I think 2.0.5
21:38 dogi ok
21:38 erikos dogi, but I must say, I can not say much about it - as I just know pootle as a user :(
21:38 dogi, maybe the best would be to: either find someone who can take care of it, or revert to the last state so we keep at least what we had
21:39 dogi then I would say lets check first if this version is already doing what we want
21:40 erikos, revert will be complicated ... we would create pootle from the backups
21:40 erikos dogi, ok, in any case it would be great if we had a person that would maintain it
21:40 dogi +1 erikos
21:41 erikos dogi, it is a very important part of our infrastructure, imho
21:41 dogi, we had someone stepping up for it, but he did not do any work so far, afaikt
21:42 dogi erikos, who was stepping up
21:42 will mentor/help this person/angel :P
21:43 erikos looks for the name
21:43 dirakx I've already done some maintainance..but yes we need  some extra care.
21:43 at least until it's fully upgraded/tested.
21:44 erikos thangam.arunx@gmail.com
21:44 dogi dirakx, we (_bernie and /me) can help you with the extra care
21:45 dirakx dogi: o.k :)
21:45 dogi: as we did..the other night
21:45 dogi but we are not the maintainer ...
21:46 dirakx I can maintain..but we should address the upgrading issue.
21:47 dogi dirakx, can you find out if pootle is still doing translation work
21:47 dirakx becuase we need it..(at least is what pootle folks told me) for having functional pgettext.
21:47 dogi and set up a how to test if pootle works procedure
21:47 dirakx dogi: tested and it has been pushing to repos.
21:48 dogi cool
21:48 dirakx but we need a procedure
21:48 documentation! :)
21:48 dogi #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Service/Pootle
21:49 can you add there succ a full test how to
21:49 dirakx sure.
21:49 dogi #action dirakx add "how test pootle" in docu
21:50 erikos, can you invite thangam.arunx@gmail.com to our next meeting
21:51 and send him the meeting notes
21:51 erikos dogi, when is it?
21:51 dogi, I guess it is mentioned in your notes
21:51 dogi hopefully next week :P
21:52 is finally on the end with pootle
21:52 #topic unmaintianed sevices
21:52 erikos dogi, it gets back on you!
21:52 unmaintained services: pootle
21:53 dogi #info * pootle?
21:53 dirakx dogi: erikos thanks
21:53 erikos oh, no - dirakx stepped up....:)
21:53 dogi dirakx, is the new maintainer
21:53 erikos hurray!
21:53 dirakx hehe..I must learn to be silent hehe :)
21:53 erikos dirakx, hopefully not so soon! ;p
21:54 dogi dirakx, maybe you take care of thangam.arunx@gmail.com
21:54 so he can help you
21:54 #info * planet
21:54 #link http://planet.sugarlabs.org/
21:55 dirakx erikos: :)
21:56 dogi #info We would like a maintainer for planet ...
21:56 #info step up and contact systems@sugarlabs.org
21:56 silbe, alsroot are there other unmaintained services
21:57 ok lets move to the next agenda point
21:57 alsroot dogi: no ideas, thats the question more to _bernie
21:58 dogi alsroot, that was the 2 I remember
21:58 silbe dogi: I don't know, best to ask _bernie.
21:59 dogi #topic wanted services
21:59 #info * new lists replacement
21:59 #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/
21:59 #info possible replacement
21:59 #link http://groupserver.org/groupserver/features/
21:59 the other thing _bernie wanted ...
21:59 +s
21:59 #info * better planet
21:59 #link http://planet.sugarlabs.org
21:59 #info * better schooltool demo
21:59 #link http://schooltool.sugarlabs.org:?port?
21:59 #info * question/answer service
21:59 #info what is a question/answer service?
21:59 #link http://askubuntu.com/
22:00 #info an AGPL/ruby solution:
22:00 #link http://shapado.com/
22:00 we can offer VMs for
22:00 silbe dogi: I though groupserver is an enhancement rather than a replacement?
22:01 dogi silbe, ups
22:01 yes
22:01 silbe We should be very careful about replacing the list software. The mailing lists are very high priority, potentially even more important than the wiki.
22:01 dogi +1
22:02 but we can always test that in a VM before
22:02 VM = sandbox
22:02 #info * new features in aslo?
22:02 #link http://idea.sugarlabs.org/drupal5/
22:03 silbe we can't really. The "interesting" part is the software at the subscribers end.
22:03 dogi FGrose, ?
22:03 you added this?
22:03 FGrose Is idea.sl.o a possible ?!server?
22:04 dogi ?
22:04 idea is search a maintainer
22:04 ups searching
22:05 FGrose by configuring ideas to questions, etc.
22:05 dogi ohhh
22:06 now i get you
22:06 yes it is? and we have 160 users
22:07 FGrose If we find a maintainer, it might serve as sandbox for evaluation.
22:07 dogi wanted to move this userbase from ideatorrent to shapado
22:08 dirakx I like shapado more ;)
22:08 dogi which is more general
22:08 FGrose deferring to your judgment for infrastructure...
22:08 dogi :)
22:09 FGrose There's just a lot of teachers who are familiar with drupal
22:09 Cerlyn has quit IRC
22:09 dogi FGrose, yes
22:10 FGrose But shapado looks suitable too.
22:11 dogi we will speak more about this when we have a volunteer willing to set this up
22:12 FGrose Will pass this by Marketing for ideas..
22:12 dogi #info * olpcbot wants a home in the cloud
22:12 #link http://mysite.verizon.net/kevi[…]rk/newolpcbot.tar
22:12 kevix, I really like your little nice bot ...
22:13 #info olpcbot is automatically informing new arriving users at #olpc-help
22:14 kevix dogi: well. its was just a start of an idea as #olpc-help seemed to be lacking people getting any help and leaving.
22:14 dogi would like to offer you a VM in treehouse ...
22:15 what do you think about that?
22:17 kevix, ?
22:17 silbe dogi: a full VM just for an IRC bot?
22:17 dogi :P
22:18 kevix silbe: well at the moment, its running on my little pc at home on a FIOS connection.
22:18 which is ok for me.
22:18 dogi is hoping in more services from kevix :)
22:18 and his olpcbot
22:19 will jump to the next agenda point
22:19 #topic www.sl.o redesign
22:19 #info Marketing Team log:
22:19 #link http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-02-15T15:05:53
22:20 silbe kevix: my point was just that setting up an entire VM just to run the bot in it is kind of overkill. It could easily live on one of the existing hosts or VMs.
22:20 FGrose Sugar Labs marketing has stalled for a number of reasons. High among them is the difficulty of providing an easy Sugar demonstration for newcomers.  The Marketing Team is wondering if the Infrastructure Team can help by providing something like Dogi's sugarbush to provide an experience of a working Sugar to the public.
22:21 kevix silbe: yeah. I can understand that :)
22:24 dogi hmm
22:24 #info sugarbush demo
22:24 silbe FGrose: the way dogi did it (using VNC) is the only way that doesn't require major changes to Sugar in order to work (assuming you're talking about "running" it from a web browser).
22:25 dogi #link http://one.treehouse.su/gar.ht[…]ehouse.su&port=80
22:26 erikos dogi, (I have to run off soon - thanks for having us)
22:26 dogi FGrose, it is not so easy to get from a working prototype to a reliable demo for our endusers
22:26 silbe FGrose: sugarbush is nice for a short demo, but a) latency makes it a PITA when used across a "long distance" link (e.g. across a continent). I'm also worried about the load that more than a handful of users would cause.
22:26 (the last sentence should have been b) )
22:26 FGrose silbe: yes, but can it support the traffic or are there ways to limit traffic or provide some mirrors???
22:27 replaceafill has quit IRC
22:27 silbe FGrose: it runs Sugar on the server and copies the image to the browser pixel-by-pixel
22:27 FGrose: so every "mirror" would need to be a server running Sugar
22:28 dogi FGrose, the only thing we could offer right new is this link to selected users
22:28 silbe, +1
22:28 silbe FGrose: I would expect CPU and memory to be exhausted before we hit traffic limits
22:29 dogi but right now the only running example is located in North America
22:29 what about other locations
22:29 FGrose OK, I follow.  So it would take a lot of resources, could Amazon cloud serve it?
22:29 dogi FGrose, +1
22:30 and vmware.com
22:30 is working on his vmware contacts
22:31 silbe FGrose: It could, but I wouldn't even want to think about the costs.
22:32 dogi silbe, maybe the are willing to donate some services
22:32 FGrose Good opportunity for corporate donation.
22:33 dogi FGrose, amazon cloud, rackspace and vmware are possible candidates
22:33 silbe dogi: There already was talk about using Amazon hosting for some other stuff in the past. AFAIK Amazon wasn't interested in sponsoring.
22:33 something related to Fedora... maybe mchua recalls the details
22:34 dogi silbe, oh good pint
22:34 point
22:34 we can ask on the Fedora Cloud list
22:35 #action dogi FGrose : ask on the Fedora Cloud list for VMs
22:35 silbe feel free to go ahead. :)
22:35 FGrose So a technical strain, but something that might be considered.
22:35 silbe but remember that there are a lot of open source projects, all of them doing something cool, and most of them wanting free hosting.
22:35 dogi FGrose, enough about the web demo
22:35 back to the actual www
22:36 #link http://www.sugarlabs.org
22:36 is there a git repository of this page available
22:37 silbe FGrose: FWIW, I'd love to see us put up such a demo server. But we should be aware that it doesn't require a Slashdot article to take down the server by friendly DDoS.
22:37 dogi silbe, invitation only ...
22:37 FGrose JT4sugar is considering coordinating a design firm who have offered Sean pro bono services, some college students, + a teacher review panel
22:38 dogi FGrose, right now such a service would need a around the clock protection/monitoring crew
22:39 FGrose Right, I'm following your cautions.
22:39 silbe dogi: we could put it on an ex-WMF server. Then it wouldn't matter if it went down, so no 24/7 monitoring required.
22:40 dogi FGrose, right now I can setup 5 demos on dextra.media.mit.edu
22:41 is working on the debian squeeze
22:41 FGrose OK, more planning needed.  Thanks for considering!
22:41 dogi version
22:43 FGrose, bingo
22:43 FGrose, who is the actual maintainer of the www
22:44 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Service/000_other
22:44 FGrose Sean will provide meeting notes from today's Marketing meeting.  There will be other infrastructure requests such as ?!server
22:44 maybe unmaintained...
22:44 dogi ok
22:44 #action dogi set up git for www
22:45 new page should be i18n able
22:45 FGrose #link This has some other thoughts, for reference, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/M[…]ting_Team/Website
22:45 silbe dogi: FWIW, you could use a simple web frontend for registration (using OpenID, e.g. https://ssl-test.sugarlabs.org/) and run each VNC instance as a separate unix user.
22:46 dogi silbe, yes - but right now not possible
22:47 every other then :0 is gnome
22:47 FGrose Timeline is 3 to 6 months I presume.
22:47 dogi not sugardesktop
22:47 ups display :0
22:48 FGrose, that sound realistic
22:48 +s
22:48 erikos has quit IRC
22:48 FGrose dogi: I had more luck :# in Fedora than Ubuntu in December with Sugar
22:49 dogi the demo is in ubuntu cause I was not able to install soas on a kvm ...
22:50 but debian is already next to finished
22:50 FGrose dogi: that is display :0 (but I was just playing and didn't do much more)
22:50 dogi and then I will do Fedora 14
22:50 silbe needs to go soon
22:51 dogi topic found bugs
22:51 #info * aslo 404 pages show mozilla emails
22:51 #link http://activities.sugarlabs.or[…]S/sugar/user/1425
22:51 #topic found bugs
22:52 alsroot, can you change this?
22:52 #info * wiki.sl.o analytics is broken since nov14/15
22:52 #link https://www.google.com/analyti[…]20101015-20110214
22:53 FGrose, do you have a possibility to help here?
22:53 alsroot dogi: sure
22:54 dogi #action alsroot: aslo 404 pages shows mozilla emails
22:54 ty alsroot :)
22:54 FGrose I can review the Localsettings. May have stepped on anaytics configuration.
22:55 dogi FGrose, do you analytics access?
22:55 FGrose I'm not getting to the link.
22:56 So probably not.
22:56 dogi #action dogi add Fgrose to analytics
22:57 #action FGrose fix analytics in wiki.sl.o
22:57 #topic server hardware update
22:57 #info treehouse/housestree cpu upgrade - dogi/bernie
22:57 #info rit-ex-wikipedia servers (aslo1.rit.edu, aslo2.rit.edu, aslo3.rit.edu)
22:57 #info black?something? - lfarone
22:57 _bernie, lfaraone not here
22:57 moves this to next meeting
22:58 silbe did i miss your openid stuff?
22:58 silbe dogi: let's just move it to the next meeting.
22:59 dogi ok
22:59 with cas there?
22:59 #topic access fairy & homework
22:59 #info Now is the best time to ask for access to systems/server.
22:59 #info a homework in form of solving an action, writing documentaton or
22:59 #info helping in RT is the best way to get access to our systems.
22:59 silbe it's not as if anything besides me cares about it anyway :-P
22:59 dogi :)
22:59 does somebody more access?
23:00 silbe dogi: it's a central authentication service, but neither the CAS protocol nor the CAS implementation
23:00 FGrose silbe: we're patient with your vision!
23:00 dogi will end the meeting
23:00 last words?
23:00 FGrose Thanks!
23:01 dogi thank you all
23:01 #endmeeting
23:01 meeting Meeting ended Tue Feb 15 23:01:37 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
23:01 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/t[…]-15T21:00:56.html
23:01 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/t[…]11-02-15T21:00:56

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