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#treehouse, 2010-03-02

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
16:06 dogi #topic agenda
16:06 #info * last meeting
16:06 #info * aslocamp at RIT - RIT/walter/dfarning (dfarning link?)
16:06 #info * aslo and RIT update - dfarning (http://activities.sugarlabs.org )
16:06 #info * aslo and turtleart - alsroot/tonyf (http://idea.olpcorps.net/drupa[…]atorrent/idea/19/ )
16:06 #info * launchpadVM update - lfaraone (http://pad.sugarlabs.org )
16:06 #info * olpcorps.org redesign for sugar - _bernie (http://olpcorps.org )
16:06 #info * cleaning of old VMs on treehouse/housetree - dogi
16:07 #info * result of test fairy - treehouse (http://idea.sugarlabs.org )
16:07 #info * access fairy
16:07 #info * puppetization discussion
16:07 #topic last meeting
16:08 #link http://me.etin.gs/treehouse/tr[…]0100223_1603.html
16:09 had no time this week to write the action check
16:10 and all my actions from last meeting are still open ...
16:10 is there somebody else which wants to report some fulfilled actions?
16:11 ping _bernie alsroot  lfaraone dfarning
16:11 dfarning started turtle art sharing conversation on systems
16:12 will take a few weeks to sort out
16:12 dogi :)
16:12 alsroot hopes to make something useful from activity side for object sharing for these few weeks
16:12 dfarning also at rit - still waiting for a new place to host the machines
16:12 dogi #topic aslocamp at RIT
16:13 dfarning still waiting for a location to host the machines to settle out before we can make any firm plans
16:13 dogi, when are you leaving to go back to germany
16:14 cdeslandes, do you have any more info about also at rit
16:14 cdeslandes dfarning: Nothing much here, everyone is on vacation because of spring break
16:15 dfarning: decause and I are trying to shape up plans in the Center for Student Innovation, but that won't start up until at least next week
16:15 dfarning cdeslandes, ok we will just put things on hold until we hear back from you or steve
16:15 cdeslandes dfarning: ok
16:16 dfarning on other closely related news dogi and I brought also-web up for a bout an hour this morning
16:16 dogi dfarning, will leave after aslocamp ...
16:17 #topic aslo and RIT update
16:17 dfarning dogi, ok as soon as we know more we will put something together
16:17 dogi #link aslo-web.sugarlabs.org
16:17 dfarning cdeslandes, pretty much covered aslo at rit
16:18 dogi #info aslo-web VM is helping sunjammer to stem the load
16:18 dfarning once we fix the nfs between sunjammer and aslo-web we wll have 2-3 time the current capacity for also
16:18 dogi cdeslandes, is there already a plan for hosting the wikipediaservers at RIT?
16:19 dfarning that will buy us a few more weeks?
16:19 dogi +1 dfarning
16:19 hopes at least ...
16:19 dfarning dogi, nothing firm about hosting at RIT... everyone is on semester break
16:19 cdeslandes dogi: Currently, decause and myself are trying to get a proposal together to build a small server rack in the innovation center which would host the servers
16:20 dogi cdeslandes, thx :)
16:20 cdeslandes dogi: We will start working on this proposal next week hopefully
16:20 dfarning cdeslandes, whos approaval do you need?
16:20 dogi #action dfarning fix nfs for aslo-web
16:20 dfarning Ian's?
16:21 cdeslandes dfarning: Not sure, we haven't really started looking, decause and mchua went to toronto and saw a glass datacenter and decause wants to put one in the innovation center
16:22 dfarning #action _bernie or dogi fix nfs for aslo-web.  I have learned not to tound nfs on production ubuntu machines:(
16:22 cdeslandes, sounds cool
16:23 dogi #action dogi/_bernie help dfarning with nfs for aslo-web
16:23 thx cdeslandes
16:23 dfarning cdeslandes, FWIW we can start small.... Just to prove we are serving valuable content out of the innovation center.
16:23 cdeslandes, thanks
16:24 I guess that is it for also at rit this week:)
16:24 dogi #topic aslo and turtleart
16:24 dfarning This is going to be a back burner thing until also is sorted out
16:25 dogi dfarning, is there a better title for this?
16:25 dfarning looking for ling to email conversation last week
16:26 #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ruary/010133.html
16:26 dogi #link http://idea.olpcorps.net/ideat[…]atorrent/idea/19/
16:26 thx dfarning
16:27 dfarning the important thing is to keep it really simple.  Other efforts at unified bundles or activity sharing have fail because of their complexity
16:27 dogi #info this is a plan to save/share content on aslo or an other service
16:27 dfarning dogi, not sure.... Still looking for the right tool for the job.....
16:27 dogi alsroot, I would like you to take the lead here
16:28 dfarning, ok
16:28 dfarning alot will depend on what alsroot and sascha come up with
16:28 dogi +1
16:29 decause catches up with backlogs
16:30 I'm meeting with who's still here from my team tomorrow at 3pm
16:30 dfarning decause, cool I think cdeslandes gave us the high level over view
16:30 dogi #info share sugar activities content is one the goals for this year
16:30 hi decause
16:30 decause dogi: waves
16:30 dfarning decause, what do you need from us?
16:31 cdeslandes waves at decause
16:31 decause cdeslandes: holler
16:32 were going to start modest and go bigger, but I think I can fit a box or 2 in a closet at the CSI if worse comes to worse
16:32 dogi +1 decause
16:33 decause cdeslandes and I will be wheeling tomorrow with our team at CSI, and seeing what we have available as far as jacks and space
16:34 dfarning +1 if you can fit two we can start fro there.  Our machines are crappy and need redundancy for such a critical service.
16:34 lfaraone dogi: pong.
16:34 dfarning we can scale from there as needed
16:35 decause dfarning: agreed
16:35 alsroot dogi: about content library, I'm doing what I can, here coding separate activity, and also because I'm not familiar w/ web stuff much (the only my experience is ASLO, but I'm not sure that hacking ASLO would be useful(but could be for php coders e.g.) -- and at the end both approaches (web library portal and activities) would be useful and work together -- it would be useful if someone picks web stuff
16:35 up
16:35 dogi #action decause/cdeslandes give systems@list.sl.o update about result for CSI meeting
16:35 decause we'll post irc logs
16:36 dfarning alsroot, The lowest hanging fruit looks like uploading to moodle.   Mainly because we know several expert moodle hackers
16:36 dogi thx decause
16:36 decause dogi: np
16:37 dfarning alsroot, and moole has a modular structure so the feature can be added a a moodle addon rather than hacking the aslo core.
16:38 alsroot dfarning: would be cool if we found someone who will take moodle, from acitivty(uploading) side, I guess we can just patch Browse and it shouldn't be a problem
16:40 dfarning alsroot, yes, is what we are looking for.   Then if it is useful we can add to aslo
16:41 alsroot dfarning: so, we just need to call moodle hackers we know :)
16:42 dfarning yes
16:42 alsroot is not sure who are our moodle hackers
16:43 dfarning caroline meek knows and employes several:)
16:44 dogi who wants to write a nice mail for moodle hackers to help us with sugar content sharing feature
16:45 dfarning dogi, we need to hear back from alsroot and sascha about what they need
16:45 dogi ok
16:46 lauchpad and olpcorps.org topics are moved to the next meeting
16:47 #topic cleaning of old VMs on treehouse/housetree
16:47 alsroot dfarning: since we can patch Browse for every sugar release, the question is just what moodle devs need, to represent all sugar metadata properly
16:48 ..and we can provide sufficient mechanism
16:48 dfarning alsroot, I try to get you together with someone later this week or next.
16:49 dogi hi tonyf
16:49 tonyf hi
16:50 dogi tonyf, log: http://me.etin.gs/treehouse/tr[…]0100302_1606.html
16:51 tonyf dogi, thanks
16:52 dogi tonyf, I will finish this topic and then switch back to sugar content sharing again, ok?
16:53 on treehouse and housetree there are already some to delete develVMs
16:54 tonyf ok
16:54 dogi #action dogi rename trac to puppet
16:54 dfarning +1
16:55 dogi #action dogi delete aslo-proxy, aslo-db on treehouse
16:55 dfarning +1
16:56 dogi #action dogi delete beamrider on treehouse
16:56 I don t have to forget to delete them from munin and lightwave (dns) too
16:56 dfarning +1
16:57 dogi dfarning, _bernie should I delete the backups too?
16:58 dfarning dogi, asls-[proxy|db] yes please
16:58 not sure wht bean rider was for....
16:58 dogi beamrider is bernies first experiment on treehouse
16:59 he wanted to replace solarsail
16:59 dfarning ahh yes.... made from a rib.....
16:59 dogi #action delete backup from aslo-proxy and aslo-db
17:00 #action dfarning move wiki recipes for aslo-machines to oldmachines
17:01 please don t delete them
17:02 dfarning dogi what about buildslave4?
17:02 dogi #action dogi delete aslo from housetree too
17:02 what is buildslave4?
17:03 dfarning dogi, I'll restore the pages and mark them historical
17:03 dogi lol
17:03 dfarning http://sunjammer.sugarlabs.org/munin/
17:03 dogi historical := category oldmachines
17:04 dfarning It was a vm luke crawford provided as a build slave, do we sill use it or can we add it to the build farm on bender
17:05 dogi think we have to wait for _bernie there
17:05 has no access there
17:06 dfarning dogi, aslo what about moving subuntu to the rest of the build machines on bender.... just to keep things consistant
17:07 dogi I m fine subuntu on treehouse
17:08 #idea what is with buildslave4 - _bernie
17:08 #idea move subuntu to bender?
17:09 think that is enough for cleaning for the hole year :P
17:09 #topic sugar activities content sharing
17:10 tonyf, do you have something to add there?
17:10 tonyf no
17:10 dogi a suggestion
17:10 an idea?
17:11 tonyf not really (:
17:11 dogi ok :)
17:12 #topic result of test fairy
17:12 dfarning wants to keep _bernie's head from exploding:)
17:12 dogi #info I asked last week all treehousers to test
17:12 #link http://idea.sugarlabs.org/
17:13 #info and to give feedback
17:13 Does everyone has an account on idea.sl.o?
17:14 alsroot, what is your impression?
17:14 what does dogi need/should fix there
17:14 alsroot ok with that
17:15 dfarning now has an accout
17:15 dogi adam holt said he would push idea.sl.o if we add the language spanish there
17:15 will give dfarning admin rights there
17:16 dfarning dogi is there a straight forward translation mechanism?
17:16 dogi I looked into that a little
17:17 but drupal is easy to translate ... it is already done
17:17 with ideatorrent hmmm
17:18 think alsroot looked a little bit into that, but for an other reason:
17:18 he wanted to sugarize the design of idea.sl.o
17:19 alsroot s/wanted to sugarize/wanted to have sugarized/ :)
17:19 hhardy hey
17:19 dogi :)
17:19 alsroot since I'm a bad designer as well
17:19 dogi hi hhardy
17:20 hhardy hi sorry to be late... I do have a question though
17:20 dogi hhardy, log: http://me.etin.gs/treehouse/tr[…]0100302_1606.html
17:21 hhardy http://me.etin.gs/treehouse/tr[…]0100302_1606.html
17:21 oops
17:21 dogi #action dogi research into spanify idea.sl.o
17:21 hhardy dfarning: why are we using puppet?
17:22 dogi mom hhardy puppet is the last point in this meeting
17:22 hhardy ok I will hold that question then
17:23 dogi hhardy, should i add monitoringVM topic?
17:23 hhardy sure if you like...
17:23 dogi #topic monitoringVM
17:23 hhardy I will need to research the quesiton before saying anythig definitive on it tho
17:24 maybe take it next week
17:24 dogi #action dogi create monitoringVM for hhardy
17:25 hhardy ok let me sandbox some ideas then good plan
17:25 dogi #topic access fairy
17:26 <lfaraone> an aside, is it possible to get meeting to join #ubuntu-us-dc on freenode?
17:26 sure lfaraone
17:26 lfaraone dogi: cool, thanks.
17:27 dogi #action dogi send meeting to  #ubuntu-us-dc on freenode
17:27 are there other access requests?
17:27 no?
17:27 lfaraone dogi: since you're in such a permissive mood, can I take the Cadillac to the movies?
17:28 :P
17:28 dogi #topic puppetization discussion
17:28 :)
17:28 so hhardy now
17:28 <hhardy> dfarning: why are we using puppet?
17:28 hhardy suggest we put tripwire on all machines and vms to monitor changes in critical files... somewhat for security but mainly for knowing how to rollback changes that dont go well
17:29 dfarning: I'm not opposed on principle but I guess I don't see how the oppotunity cost outweighs the advantages
17:29 or the other way round rather
17:29 dfarning hhardy, at this point the goal is to easily configure multiple similar machines for the aslo cluster.
17:30 hhardy so mainly for replication then
17:30 dogi hhardy, +1
17:30 hhardy how is that going to play with our idea of doing replication via rsync?
17:30 seems like an either/or
17:31 my concerns on puppet are
17:31 dfarning hhardy,  I don't know.... I am just using also a a test case.
17:32 hhardy 1 it obscures the underlying "normal" way of system administration, and potentially will step on changes made in the "normal way"
17:32 2 it is a potential single point of failure
17:32 3 it is a potential security exposure
17:32 4 it involves learning a new language
17:32 5 it is very limited in what it can do
17:33 advantage is...1  replication of configuration
17:33 2 ease of use
17:33 3 central point of administration
17:34 4 OS independent for certain linux versions
17:34 basically right?
17:34 dogi hhardy, think so
17:34 the main advantage
17:35 hhardy as I say not opposed but just wonder if the time spent setting up puppet might not be better spent on setting up the actual services we want to run
17:35 dogi is that by puppetifing it is easier to scale
17:35 hhardy it is interesting... I will look into it more
17:35 yes and the scaling issue is the big advantage I can see
17:36 dogi :)
17:36 dfarning hhardy, my trade off is all so when the time spent.
17:36 dogi dfarning, tell us some of this week learned puppet things ...
17:36 hhardy like bernie I am very allegic to tools which step on my handrolled configuration files... I know this is dinosaurish of me
17:37 dogi hhardy, :P
17:37 dfarning my time up front or _bernie and dogi's time later on....
17:38 hhardy well... is puppet being set up to make things easier for _bernie and dogi??
17:38 dubious of that
17:38 dogi had an discussion with friends which are a lot into puppet
17:39 and I told them about using puppet for starting the old recipe on remote servers
17:39 hhardy as I say I will look into it further... could be a useful tool if we dont try to use it for everything... like using a hammer to drive screws
17:39 dogi ups recipes
17:40 they basically smiled at me :P
17:40 and told me no dogi that s not the puppet way :)
17:40 hhardy dfarning: thank you for your work on puppet... I don't mean to be overly critical
17:41 tonyf I do have a question on TA server but will wait till finished this topic
17:41 dogi +1 hhardy
17:41 hhardy I look forwrd tobeing further enlightened on the matter... but withholding judgement on if it is worth the effort
17:41 dogi tonyf, it is discussion time ... so go for it
17:41 tonyf ok
17:42 dfarning hhardy, I understand.... I have to prove its worth on ASLO before selling it to the rest of the infrastructure.
17:42 tonyf we are talking about uploading a ta bundle not just a ta file
17:42 the bundle includes mime type and maybe preview, right?
17:42 dogi tonyf, where is the difference there?
17:43 ahh
17:43 tonyf just trying to understand
17:43 dogi tonyf,  this is a good point
17:44 dfarning tonyf, from the user pov there should be no difference
17:44 tonyf has the issue of multimedia used in a ta project been considered in the bundle, how would it work?
17:44 dfarning from the develop pov there will likely be additional metadata that needs to be passed aound
17:45 tonyf dfarning when linked files come in then the user does see something
17:46 user would see in their journal a ta project and a image file if the image was linked from the ta project?
17:46 dogi by the way dfarning tonyf alsroot think I should setup a develVM for all the person which want to try some content sharing strategies ...
17:47 dfarning tonyf, I am envissioning very similar to xo bundles.  a bundle handler will stick he stuff where it needs to go....
17:48 tonyf not sure if its a big deal, just wanted to raise it
17:48 dfarning tonyf, I think alsroot, sascha, walter and you will have to figure out _what_ that means so we can work on a proof of concept
17:49 tonyf dfarning, what that means from a user perspective or programmers?
17:49 dfarning server side, _all_ we see is a bundle.
17:49 tonyf, both:)
17:50 dogi and for the user it is a button?
17:50 #endmeeting

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