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#treehouse, 2010-02-23

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
16:03 dogi #topic agenda
16:03 #info * last meeting
16:04 #info * aslo and RIT update - dfarning (http://activities.sugarlabs.org)
16:04 #info * bootcamp/sugarcamp at RIT? timesched
16:04 #info * lightwaveVM update - bernie
16:04 #info * zatoichiVM update - bernie/rgs (http://paraguayeduca.org)
16:04 #info * meetingsVM update - dogi (http://meetings.olpcorps.net)
16:04 #info * migrate pootleVM to housetree - unmadindu/dogi (http://translate.sugarlabs.org)
16:04 #info * idea & access fairy
16:04 #info * eucalyptus and landscape discussion
16:05 something to add?
16:05 hi walterbender hi tonyf
16:05 #topic last meeting
16:05 dfarning_laptop dogi puppetizing?
16:05 dogi #link http://me.etin.gs/treehouse/tr[…]0100216_1606.html
16:06 cdeslandes I have bad news on the RIT front
16:06 dogi dfarning_laptop: do it in the etherpad ...  please
16:06 _bernie hello
16:06 dogi #info action check:
16:06 dfarning_laptop cdeslandes, yes
16:06 dogi #info action dogi ask adam reguarding idea and gsoc - done
16:06 #info action dogi/bernie give silbe access to lightwave - done
16:06 #info action bernie switch master dns to lightwave - done
16:06 tonyf hi all
16:07 dogi #info action lfaraone follow up tracking numbers - done
16:07 #info the servers arrived 6 are now in Boston the other in DC
16:07 #info action dogi search a ps2 keyboard for servers and move them to pika - done
16:07 cdeslandes dfarning_laptop: CSH is putting all new server projects on hold indefinitely
16:07 dogi #info action dfarning can do this and analytics for you - done
16:07 #info action dogi write recipe for meetings
16:07 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Machine/meetings
16:08 #info action provide brief summary of cloud computing and how it may hurt or harm sugar labs:) - done (will be dicussed on the of the meeting)
16:08 cdeslandes dfarning_laptop: Which includes the servers from Sugar Labs
16:08 dfarning_laptop cdeslandes, what happened?
16:08 dogi #info not done:
16:08 #action dfarning update http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/M[…]buntu-10.04-64bit
16:08 #action dogi update http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/I[…]ure_Team/Meetings and all the other meetings pages
16:08 cdeslandes dfarning_laptop: They accepted too many servers and now we are dealing with cooling issues
16:08 dogi #action create schooltoolVM
16:08 #action _bernie/ rgs write recipe for zatoichiVM
16:09 #action dfarning look into student labor/reseach opertunities
16:09 #action dogi/bernie/RIT put together learning materials
16:09 #topic aslo and RIT update
16:09 cdeslandes dfarning_laptop: That and they upgraded a bunch of servers not thinking about heat load
16:09 dfarning_laptop cdeslandes, arg common problem
16:09 cdeslandes dfarning_laptop: Currently looking at avg. temp of 90 degrees F
16:10 dfarning_laptop cdeslandes, it is easy to forget how much power a server uses and heat it produces
16:10 cdeslandes, what are the other opertunities at RIT?
16:10 cdeslandes dfarning_laptop: We went from servers that pulled 1 amp a piece to 2.3 amps a piece
16:11 dfarning_laptop cdeslandes, It would be nice to have a foothold at RIT for when the racks go into the CIC
16:11 _bernie dogi: no recipe needed, it's yet another clone of template_karmic.
16:11 dogi: oh, you mean to install stuff on it? rgs is working on it
16:11 cdeslandes dfarning_laptop: I am currently discussing options with Prof. Jacobs and decause about those options
16:11 dogi _bernie: thx
16:12 dfarning_laptop cdeslandes, should I give you a call tonight to see where we stand
16:12 cdeslandes dfarning_laptop: we are discussing it over lunch tomorrow
16:12 dfarning_laptop cdeslandes, ok i'll call after lunch:)
16:13 cdeslandes dfarning_laptop: Its up to you, nothing is going to change here very quickly
16:13 dfarning_laptop: +1
16:13 dfarning_laptop cdeslandes, ok
16:14 cdeslandes, should we postpone the bootcamp of would it be a usefull event to help push things forward
16:15 dogi cdeslandes: think for starting with the students we need only a room and some (3) ipaddresses
16:15 for the servers
16:16 cdeslandes I think it might be a good idea, to postpone it as the administrators of the boxes could change drastically0,00 in the next few days
16:16 as will their location, possibly
16:16 dfarning_laptop ok
16:16 as for the software side....
16:16 dogi by the way yesterday a repaired the broken rails ...
16:17 dfarning_laptop the machine setup is going well
16:17 cdeslandes CSH e-board also isn't sure if they even want to host the machines now
16:17 dfarning_laptop I can have the machines running in about 6 hours
16:17 cdeslandes I tried to get them to nail down an answer, but they said they would look at it when we get all the issues in the server room fixed
16:18 THere is a possiblity that CSH could say no
16:18 dfarning_laptop cdeslandes, ok we will talk tomarrow
16:18 cdeslandes And if they say yes, they want to do the hosting of the machines in 1 year contracts
16:18 We are looking at the possible alternatives
16:19 dfarning_laptop cdeslandes, that is reasonable
16:19 dogi so updates from my side
16:19 dfarning_laptop if the project is not useful to CSH they should be able to kick us out with reasonable notice
16:20 cdeslandes dfarning_laptop: ok
16:20 dogi I was able to install unbuntu server 9.04 on all machines
16:21 then I moved them form walter office to
16:21 #link http://pika.mit.edu/
16:22 there they have the ips
16:22 #link
16:23 is offert by djbclark
16:23 thx walterbender for your office
16:23 walterbender dogi: np
16:23 dogi #topic bootcamp/sugarcamp at RIT? timeschedule?
16:23 _bernie silbe: what's your wiki account?
16:23 silbe _bernie: probably sascha_silbe
16:24 dfarning_laptop dogi, looks like we will need to postpone it at least until we learn more.
16:24 walterbender fyi, I am at RIT april 29- may 1
16:25 cdeslandes Innovation Fair Weekend
16:25 dfarning_laptop we could do it then....
16:26 dogi don t likes to postpone the postponed ...
16:26 cdeslandes Might not be the best idea, everyone will be showcasing the projects that they have been workingon during the year
16:26 dfarning_laptop cdeslandes, +1 I like the idea of a steady stream of events to keep repeating a thaem
16:27 dogi :)
16:27 dfarning_laptop i'll talk to cdeslandes tomarrow and send a follow up to the systems list
16:28 cdeslandes ok
16:28 dfarning_laptop in term of time I was think of a intense session from a friday evening to a sunday morning
16:28 is that too much
16:28 dogi dfarning_laptop: link?
16:30 don t think this is too much ...
16:30 cdeslandes dfarning_laptop: Sounds right up our alley, but I'm not sure how much Sugar will get out of it. I'll probably get more information tomorrow
16:30 dfarning_laptop http://lists.sugarlabs.org/pri[…]ruary/001369.html is a brainstorm email
16:31 dogi #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/pri[…]ruary/001369.html
16:31 #info brainstorm about aslo bootcamp session
16:31 dfarning_laptop cdeslandes, we need sysadmins:) not necessarily sugar people
16:32 #action follow up with cdeslandes and report to list on future of aslo @ rit
16:32 dogi #action follow up with cdeslandes and report to list on future of aslo @ rit
16:32 lfaraone wakes up.
16:33 cdeslandes dfarning_laptop: I understand that, my concern is that if the servers are not on CSH for some reason, I don't think CSH will have very many people outside myself that would be interested in administrating these machines
16:33 dfarning_laptop anything else for aslo @ rit?
16:33 cd makes sense
16:34 s/cd/cd<TAB>/
16:34 should we go on to lightwave?
16:35 dogi ping _bernie
16:35 _bernie dogi: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Machine/lightwave :-)
16:35 dogi: I beat you :)
16:35 dogi #topic lightwaveVM update
16:35 lol
16:36 has to use mibbit again ... MITGUEST no port 9999 and no port 6667
16:36 _bernie perhaps we should create a Macine/template page for documenting all machines similarly
16:36 lfaraone dogi: use port 7000. (fn supports, it idk about OFTC)
16:37 dogi #idea create a Macine/template page for documenting all machines similarly
16:37 lfaraone dogi: might this be an application of a proper MediaWiki template?
16:37 *case for the application of a *
16:38 dogi _bernie: good job with the recipe
16:38 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Machine/lightwave
16:39 dfarning_laptop will wait a few weeks before making a case that the reporting features of puppet should be use to generate the infrastructure documentation.
16:39 dogi #idea wikipedia template
16:39 +1 dfarning
16:40 #action zatoichiVM update
16:40 #link http://paraguayeduca.org
16:40 _bernie: what is your plan there?
16:41 who has access?
16:41 _bernie dogi: I need to ask rgs. he said he wanted to install drupal there
16:41 dfarning_laptop what is zatoichiVM for?
16:41 dogi #info drupal installation
16:42 thx _bernie
16:42 don t forget the recipe :P ...
16:42 #topic meetingsVM update
16:43 _bernie rgs: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Machine/zatoichi  <- please, fill in
16:43 rgs _bernie: oh, ok
16:43 dogi #link http://meetings.olpcorps.net
16:43 thx _bernie
16:43 _bernie rgs: something like this would work: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Machine/gitorious
16:43 dogi #info I asked in #meetbot channel for help with the upgrade to the new meetbot
16:43 #info MrBeige will help me there
16:43 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Machine/meetings
16:44 rgs dfarning_laptop: zatoichi is a VM , gratiously given to us by you guys, that we use to host services for our deploymenbt. Since internet and electricity is *very* unreliable at our office
16:44 dfarning_laptop: at least, unreliable enough to host services
16:44 dogi rgs: welcome
16:45 dfarning_laptop rgs, cool.... I was just think about how to help local labs scale up from host their stuff, to hosting a vm for them to, helping them setup their own machine
16:45 rgs dfarning_laptop: dogi : so its basically a few web apps, might become an alternate/backup MX someday and even a site for backups
16:46 dfarning_laptop rgs, good precedent.
16:46 rgs dfarning_laptop: a VM comes handy if you are in Paraguay! Datacenters are a luxory here
16:46 dfarning_laptop: I am sure the reality might be similar in many other deployments
16:47 dogi rgs: thats fine as long we know by recipe what is going on ... :)
16:48 next topic?
16:48 #topic migrate pootleVM to housetree
16:48 #link http://translate.sugarlabs.org
16:49 #info unmadindu reported by email thats pootle has no memory .. I don t know how they are called in english
16:50 #info pootle is ready to move to housetree
16:51 unmadindu pootle seems to be saner memory-wise now - but I think CPU usage has increaseds a bit
16:52 dogi hi unmadindu
16:52 unmadindu hello :)
16:52 dogi the reason for the move is treehouse is getting full ...
16:53 move/migration
16:53 _bernie unmadindu: indeed
16:53 dogi #link http://sunjammer.sugarlabs.org[…].org.html#Virtual machines
16:53 #link http://sunjammer.sugarlabs.org[…]s.org-memory.html
16:53 _bernie dogi: as we move pootle's vm, can we convert it to an lv?
16:54 unmadindu: oh, btw... can I de-provision you on sunjammer and clear all remaining traces of pootle on it?
16:54 dogi _bernie: why should we? ... we lose the flexibility?
16:54 _bernie dogi: the qcow files are not more flexible than lvm logical volumes. quite the contrary.
16:55 dogi: lv's can be expanded and shrunk on the fly, you can take snapshots, etc.
16:55 dogi do you remember aslo migration
16:55 unmadindu _bernie: don't delete data yet (I might need to migrate a few scripts). but you can de-root me
16:55 dogi unmadindu: +1
16:55 _bernie dogi: oh, and they are faster and more reliable.
16:55 unmadindu: k
16:56 dogi lol detail _bernie lets dicuss this later when we do the migration, ok?
16:56 #action dogi/bernie pootle migration to housetree
16:56 _bernie dogi: ok
16:57 dogi unmadindu: do you want to add something ?
16:58 unmadindu dogi: nah - just keep me in the loop when you do it
16:58 _bernie dogi: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]e_virtual_machine
16:59 dogi thanks
17:00 #topic turtleart upload server
17:00 Yesterday when was speaking with walter about infrastructure
17:01 we figured out that TA wants to have a global server upload function
17:02 :P
17:02 was think in this particularly about the scratch site
17:02 +ing
17:03 tonyf http://scratch.mit.edu/
17:03 silbe dogi: so something like a.sl.o, but for TA files instead of activities?
17:04 dogi thx tonyf
17:04 dfarning_laptop tonyf, would there be a reason not to use a.sl.o?
17:04 dogi hmm silbe interesting idea
17:05 dfarning_laptop a.sl.o can be set up to handle and cagorize various types of files.
17:05 tonyf aslo? thats a technical question, dont know, educationally the idea i i think to have a button on ta which saves project to server
17:06 dogi yes tonyf  me too
17:06 dfarning_laptop asddon.mozilla.org has addons, skins, dictionaries
17:07 dogi and then there is a server side where you can look a other ta scripts and give them stars/hearts when you like them
17:08 so that it is possible to have favorite list
17:08 tonyf i think tim falconer is doing similar with etoys
17:08 dogi last upload
17:08 dfarning_laptop technically activities.sugarlabs.can do it.  But would the workflow be to heavy weight for kids....  One could upload to aslo with a single click from an activity that was set up correctly.
17:09 dogi +1
17:09 walterbender It should be  journal operation, not an activity operation
17:10 dfarning_laptop walterbender, will work from journal if the journal is set up to 'upload to a.sl.o.'
17:10 walterbender with maybe an activity helper function...
17:10 tonyf http://www.squeakland.org/showcase/everyone/
17:10 walterbender dfarning_laptop: yes. but what is with workflow? where to put things? how to find them?
17:10 dogi #link http://www.squeakland.org/showcase/everyone/
17:11 walterbender BTW, we went over 2million downloads on ASLO!!!!
17:12 dfarning_laptop walterbender, when you click the link it could ask some simple question about how to categorize and tag the TA creation
17:13 dogi walterbender: :)
17:13 silbe Journal-backup-to-a.sl.o sounds like fun ;)
17:13 dfarning_laptop walterbender, downloads would be the same as xo bundle downloads
17:14 silbe dfarning_laptop: more or less exactly the same even: we already have support for downloading "journal entry bundles".
17:15 so we'd "just" need the opposite direction
17:15 dfarning_laptop right no a.sl.o is only set up for xo bundles but we could add a separate section for TA creations...
17:15 walterbender It would be nice to generalize it so that each activity could have a project collection associated with it.
17:16 rgs _bernie: where is zatoichi hosted?
17:16 dogi rgs: gnaps
17:16 rgs _bernie: ah, and we have to show Jorge how to upload his activity, I'll send both of you an email
17:16 dogi: URL for that?
17:17 tonyf if you allow upload of multimedia you might overload server
17:17 dfarning_laptop walterbender, check out the #
17:17    * Collections
17:17    * Personas NEW!
17:17    * Dictionaries & Language Packs
17:17    * Search Tools
17:17    * Themes
17:17 _bernie rgs: on Machine/treehouse
17:17 silbe walterbender: if a.sl.o supports subcategories we could add a category per activity and would still be able to split it further.
17:17 dfarning_laptop links on the left side of addons.mozilla.org
17:17 _bernie rgs: is jorge still in the office?
17:17 rgs: I can show him now
17:17 dfarning_laptop they are the different file types mozilla uses
17:18 walterbender rgs: I was just asking you on freenode if you had a chance to test TA with kids yet?
17:18 rgs walterbender: thursday probably, today we were at the field but not in schools (showing F11 to the group that will be working with the teachers)
17:18 silbe tonyf: the files themselves are offloaded to our download mirrors
17:18 rgs _bernie: he left
17:19 dfarning_laptop walterbender, we can change the look and feel so each file type feels like a neighborhood
17:19 silbe a.sl.o is only the user interface part
17:19 dogi #action dfarning brainstrom aslo sugar uplaod
17:19 +1 silbe
17:19 walterbender most activities generate a journal thumbnail and description. and then the activity data...
17:20 dfarning_laptop tonyf, one of our mirrors is ibiblo:) that is a really fat pipe.....
17:20 tonyf :)
17:20 djbclark dogi: fyi is now also power1.gnewsense.org
17:21 dfarning_laptop walterbender, i'll get with you silbe, and alsroot later this week.  
17:22 walterbender dfarning_laptop: sound like a plan...
17:22 silbe djbclark: the web interface on that host is rather broken: Content-Type: text/plain
17:23 rgs dogi: so location for zatoichi would be the same location used for Machines/treehouse?
17:23 dogi: that is, the location of the real hardware holding my XEN instance?
17:24 silbe dfarning_laptop: let's move that out by a week, I'm quite busy currently, sorry (already got a bad conscience about participating in this meeting and doing other random stuff today).
17:24 dogi will jump then to the next topic ..
17:24 djbclark silbe: yep that's what you get for $20/port. I was thinking of doing DIY, but just power line interface stuff is $15 each
17:24 dogi what should I write as #action
17:24 silbe djbclark: I'd guess for powercycling a server once a year on average a relais would be fine, no expensive solid state stuff needed.
17:25 djbclark silbe: if you know of something cheap and better I'm all ears :)
17:25 silbe: url for "relais" ?
17:25 silbe djbclark: sorry, s/relais/relay/
17:25 dfarning_laptop silbe, ok... we can start looking at the work flow and server side stuff then follow up later with what you would need for the journal.
17:26 silbe djbclark: i.e. the electro-magnetic component
17:26 dfarning_laptop: sounds good
17:26 djbclark silbe: yeah but unless you are EE doing anything with 110V is pretty sketch. If you want to make something I'd happly install it.
17:27 dogi dfarning_laptop: will you start this email for brainstroming aslo and sugar activites upload?
17:27 djbclark silbe: I looked at all the DIY remote power projects I could find first, they all were either much more expensive or looked like they would cause pikans to die in a fire, or both :-/
17:27 silbe djbclark: ask me again in a few weeks, maybe I will. :)
17:28 dfarning_laptop #action dfarning start email conversation about hooking TA and a.sl.o together
17:28 dogi #action dfarning start email conversation about hooking TA and a.sl.o together
17:28 #topic test fairy
17:29 #link http://idea.sugarlabs.org/drup[…]ent/?tags=service
17:29 #info please send feedback to systems@sugarlabs.org
17:29 silbe djbclark: my first 230V switch board (about 15 years ago I guess) made a nice impression - the optocoupler died a rather quick and intense death ;)
17:29 dogi can please all treehousers test this?
17:30 #topic access fairy
17:30 #info silbe/dogi should have access to solarsail - bernie
17:30 #info discuss staff/institutional accounts (name treehouse?)
17:30 #info other staff/institutional accounts (aslo?)
17:31 lets start with instituttional accounts
17:31 dfarning_laptop dogi, what are institutional accounts?
17:32 dogi I would like to have something like the fsf does on treehouse and sunjammer
17:32 they have an user fsfstaff
17:33 which is what I would call an institutional account
17:33 silbe what for?
17:33 dogi so that we dont need to deal with so many user accounts
17:34 so that out of the box every staff memeber has access to the systems
17:34 silbe there are better ways to do that
17:34 dogi silbe: tell me more
17:35 silbe I certainly hope we won't be going back to shared-password accounts...
17:35 dfarning_laptop dogi, moving forward puppet will deal with automatically provisioning users for machines of different role and zone
17:36 dogi dfarning_laptop: this is an interesting point ...
17:36 _bernie: ping
17:36 silbe dogi: a) various PAM modules for secondary account database (copied over from a master machine using a cron job), b) LDAP
17:36 _bernie dogi: pong
17:36 dfarning_laptop dogi, will finish implementing it tonight to test on eu[3|4] tomarrow
17:36 silbe b) will soon be set up on lightwave
17:37 dogi silbe: ok
17:37 _bernie dogi: I can't give access to solarsail without neuralis' consent
17:37 dogi: we're moving trac to sunjammer anyway.
17:38 silbe as much as I don't like LDAP bernie keeps telling me it's the best solution (and I trust him)
17:38 dogi _bernie: it was more that wiki was strange and I wanted to look what the log is telling
17:38 _bernie dogi: this friday I'll bring up the topic of a new machine in the slobs meeting again
17:38 dogi cool
17:39 _bernie dogi: we delayed the decision to see if the wikimedia machines would have been good enough to act as a primary server, but I don't think so.
17:39 silbe _bernie: +1 from me on that, especially (but not only) now that the future of a.sl.o at RIT doesn't look too bright...
17:39 _bernie silbe: btw, I had forgotten: bender always has been using ldap from sunjammer!
17:40 silbe: the accounts on bender shouldn't really be in /etc/passwd.
17:40 silbe _bernie: interesting...
17:40 dogi #topic 3 boston wikipediaservers - sugarbush
17:40 #link http://www.cpu500.com/opteron-[…]etail-p-1447.html
17:40 silbe so the most important thing to work out is how to manage the SSH keys. really need to look at monkeysphere...
17:41 _bernie silbe: wait, what's the matter with aslo at rit? I've not been particularly present in this meeting
17:41 dogi this processor is not kvm able
17:41 silbe _bernie: it's all talk and no play
17:41 dogi #link http://www.supermicro.com/Aplu[…]/8132/H8DAR-T.cfm
17:41 the motherboard would allow to upgrade to
17:41 _bernie dogi: but the mediawiki servers shouldn't host VMs, I think. they're small servers...
17:42 dogi http://www.newegg.com/Product/[…]name=Socket%20AM2
17:42 #link http://www.newegg.com/Product/[…]name=Socket%20AM2
17:43 dfarning_laptop _bernie, long story short the CSH server room is over heating and we need to find a cooler room.
17:43 dogi and there a possiblity to upgrade this machines with ram ... each 32gb
17:43 _bernie dfarning_laptop: oh!
17:43 dogi: I wouldn't do that.
17:43 dogi sure
17:43 silbe dogi: please make sure to use ECC RAM
17:43 dogi silbe: :)
17:43 silbe (if we're going to upgrasde them at all)
17:44 _bernie dogi: let's use these old servers only as simple aslo web servers... 2GB is plenty of ram.
17:44 dogi ok
17:44 dfarning_laptop _bernie, we will know more tomarrow after the RIT folks examine their options. i'll follow up with a post to the list
17:45 _bernie dfarning_laptop: cool, thanks!
17:45 dogi but if housetree is going to be full this machines would be the ideal replacements
17:45 rgs _bernie: dogi Ñ finished documenting Machine-zatoichi .. could you guys check to see if its compliant with the documentation standards?
17:46 s/Ñ--
17:46 _bernie oh, almost forgot: ivan mentioned that he's going to purchase a new machine to replace solarsail. he said sugarlabs is welcome to use it like solarsail
17:46 dogi #idea setup a site where ask for (hardware-)donations for upgrading the wikipedia servers
17:46 _bernie the only downside will be the strict account policy.
17:47 silbe _bernie: so not shared with our new machine?
17:47 dogi lol then it is waste of time telling us this ... :P
17:48 _bernie rgs: I think it's great!
17:48 dogi #action dogi brainstorm hardware donation site for wikipediaservers
17:48 _bernie dogi, silbe: ivan's machine would be useful in case we don't get the new server.
17:49 dogi #topic eucalyptus and landscape discussion
17:50 silbe _bernie: ok. I can't imagine why we wouldn't get one, though. IIRC it was more or less decided already, only affected by the sudden appearance of the WMF servers.
17:50 dogi sorry _bernie I don t wanna deal here with machines where only one of 3 admis has access ...
17:51 dfarning_laptop dogi, do you have info on eucalyptus?
17:51 silbe dogi: for services with low maintenance overhead (e.g. static website) that's actually fine.
17:52 though full access would obviously be preferred
17:52 _bernie dogi: ivan told me that _user_ accounts would be fine for people who maintain the services: wiki, trac... just not root access for anyone else.
17:52 dfarning_laptop What I have read indicates that we should focus on a configuration management system instead
17:52 _bernie dogi: there are no accounts just because nobody wanted to maintain trac and wiki :-)
17:53 silbe _bernie: oh, so I would have got shell access to Trac?
17:53 dogi <dogi>: _bernie: it was more that wiki was strange and I wanted to look what the log is telling
17:53 silbe not that it matters now as Trac will hopefully run faster on sunjammer :)
17:53 _bernie silbe: yes. actually, we're moving it to sunjammer, remember?
17:53 dfarning_laptop _bernie, several people have offered to admin the wiki and trac and were turned away....
17:53 _bernie silbe: I'm just blocking on you or mchua to work with me on setting it up.
17:54 silbe _bernie: ok. I'll get unblocked myself at start of march, for better or worse ;)
17:54 _bernie dfarning_laptop: no, I've been looking for trac admins for 1 year and found none
17:55 dfarning_laptop: for the main wiki, we have several high level admins. the local labs wikis are fully maintained by the individual owners.
17:56 dfarning_laptop can we move past this to euculyptus?
17:56 dogi?
17:56 dogi +1 dfarning_laptop
17:57 by having finally 6 indentical server s on my hand
17:57 I could not resist
17:57 Installed eucalyptus
17:58 which is nice to play with
17:58 silbe what's that?
17:59 dogi #link https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Eucalyptus
17:59 #link https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEC
17:59 dfarning_laptop silbe, eucalyptus in an open source cloud the has the same apis as amazon.
18:00 dogi it is a clustering software
18:00 dfarning_laptop: +1
18:00 but on the other side it is an other template to deal with
18:01 silbe what's the advantage of using it? Cloud always sounds like useless overhead to me...
18:01 dogi I used this recipe:
18:01 #link https://help.ubuntu.com/commun[…]geInstallSeparate
18:02 basically eucalyptus is similar to kvm with the difference it can deal with more then one physical machine
18:03 and it has already a nice webinterface
18:04 silbe similar to kvm or uses kvm?
18:04 dogi dfarning_laptop: uoyu asked the last time that I should think how cloud computing will affect sugar
18:04 ups you
18:04 silbe oh, _nice_, a web frontend (sorry, I just loathe them)
18:04 dogi and I think you know the answer
18:05 _bernie silbe: it works on top of kvm, like libvirtd
18:05 dogi sugar with a the services sooner or later has to move into the cloud ...
18:05 silbe _bernie: ok. does it work equally well or better?
18:05 _bernie silbe: actually, I would expect something like eucaliptus to be built on top of libvirt
18:06 silbe ok
18:07 _bernie silbe: eucaliptus would be like gitorious of virtual machines...
18:07 dogi thats why sould ask fedora for VM on their cloud mailing list
18:07 _bernie dogi: I'm subscribed, btw
18:07 dogi _bernie: me too
18:08 silbe _bernie: so what use is it for us? we're not going to host random VMs I'd suppose.
18:08 _bernie dogi: I'm not terribly fascinated by the entire cloud thing... I think it's being hyped too much.
18:08 dogi I know bernie
18:09 _bernie silbe: it's useful if you have dozens of servers and hundreds of customers and you don't want to process admin requests such as "please create a VM for me" manually.
18:09 dogi you like big strong machine in the best bandwith places
18:09 _bernie silbe: but for us... it's totally useless.
18:09 dfarning_laptop _bernie, +1, We need to focus on a few well provissioned (and consistant) machines rather than a million vms
18:09 _bernie silbe: unless we want to start a hosting business, that is :-)
18:09 silbe _bernie: ok :)
18:10 that's what I thought myself :)
18:10 not arguing against dogi playing with it, of course.
18:10 _bernie dogi: btw, can we recycle the trac vm which is on treehouse?
18:11 silbe: yeah, I'd have fun trying it out too :-)
18:11 dogi the problem I see is that if we as infrastructure team can not grow as fast as our user grow ...we may disappoint them with slow and unreliable services
18:11 #action dogi recycle tracVM
18:11 silbe dogi: which would only be intensified if we started giving everyone their own VM which they'd hose :-P
18:12 dogi +1 silbe
18:12 silbe we should rather concentrate on reducing the maintenance overhead on our primary services first
18:12 instead of creating even more overhead
18:13 (yes I'm aware _bernie thinks puppet is such additional overhead ;) )
18:13 dogi silbe: remember treehouse an housetree are supposed to be constraction spaces
18:14 silbe dogi: but those are only two servers in separate places. Automatically shuffling VMs around between them doesn't make a lot of sense.
18:14 dogi for devel environments ... little services
18:15 silbe: I get you
18:15 dfarning_laptop silbe, after working with puppet for the last couple of days, I am not worried about what _bernie thinks about puppet.  Once the pain of setting it up is over it will quickly prove its worth:)
18:15 silbe dogi: IMO it makes much more sense to automate administration of the VMs using puppet than using a Cloud service and letting users administrate the machines.
18:15 dfarning_laptop silbe, and we can prove that worth on aslo and the build farm
18:15 silbe dfarning_laptop: I sure hope so :)
18:16 _bernie dfarning_laptop: mine is just a gut feeling... I'll have a look as soon as you guys deploy it for aslo.
18:16 dogi #action _bernie/dogi ask on fedora cloud list for VMs
18:17 _bernie dfarning_laptop: in my dream world, puppet would be useless because Sugar Labs would only have two servers: main and people.
18:17 silbe dfarning_laptop: it would be awesome to be able to create a new buildslave with just a few lines of config and maybe a single CLI invocation :)
18:17 _bernie dfarning_laptop: projects much bigger than us have been running with just one machine, even
18:17 silbe: btw, do we have a F11 buildslave?
18:18 dfarning_laptop silbe, yep it will be 'pupptd --server sunjammer.sugarlabs.org'
18:18 silbe _bernie: sure, even two (32+64bit)
18:18 dogi think the meeting is over ...
18:18 _bernie silbe: I might start using the 32bit one also for running some experimental F11-XO1 builds with Sugar 0.88.
18:18 silbe dfarning_laptop: I guess that's on an already installed VM? I was dreaming about automatic installation :)
18:19 dogi #endmeeting

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