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| Time | Nick | Message |
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| 03:48 | kevix <kevix!~kevin pool-100-2-86-213.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has joined #sugar-newbies |
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| 03:49 | kevix has left #sugar-newbies | |
| 11:15 | meeting <meeting!~sugaroidrev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-newbies |
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| 14:17 | iamutkarshtiwari <iamutkarshtiwari!a32f9767gateway/web/freenode/ip.163.47.151.103> has joined #sugar-newbies |
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| 14:18 | iamutkarshtiwari | #startmeeting |
| 14:18 | meeting | Meeting started Sat Jun 18 14:18:07 2016 UTC. The chair is iamutkarshtiwari. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 14:18 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting | |
| 15:05 | tony37 <tony37!~tony194.152.247.2> has joined #sugar-newbies |
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| 15:05 | tony37 | hello |
| 15:05 | iamutkarshtiwari | hello |
| 15:06 | I have started working on #SaveAs | |
| 15:08 | tony37 | Good! |
| 15:09 | iamutkarshtiwari | I have implemented the 'discard' option in the alert |
| 15:09 | tony37 | OK |
| 15:09 | iamutkarshtiwari | When the users selects the 'discard' option, it doesn't get saved in the Journal. |
| 15:10 | tony37 | What doesn't get saved? |
| 15:10 | iamutkarshtiwari | The entry in the Journal. |
| 15:10 | and the data. | |
| 15:10 | tony37 | However you need to save the metadata |
| 15:10 | iamutkarshtiwari | The thing you were talking about, matadata. |
| 15:10 | If we save the metadata, it shows up in the Journal entry list. | |
| 15:11 | Which we don't want to if the user discards the instance. | |
| 15:11 | tony37 | Sadly yes. However, the remotejournal will delete the local copy after uploading it to the server |
| 15:12 | We need to save the metadata so that it can be uploaded for use in statistical analysis (the log) | |
| 15:13 | iamutkarshtiwari | So even after the discard of object by the user, if the entry appears in the Journal, what's would be the use of 'Save As' then? It's like instance is still in the Journal even after the user discarded it. |
| 15:13 | tony37 | The important point is the data file. It should not be saved. |
| 15:15 | iamutkarshtiwari | But the main purpose of 'save as' is to provide user the choice to provided different names to instances on close. |
| 15:15 | So ideally, the entry should not appear | |
| 15:15 | after discard. | |
| 15:15 | tony37 | Yes - in the standard desktop there is no metadata. What you are doing is the same as standard desktops re the data file |
| 15:16 | The metadata must always be saved - that is a requirement of Sugar | |
| 15:17 | iamutkarshtiwari | Do you want the entries to show up in Journal even after 'discard/not save' on close? |
| 15:18 | tony37 | I really would rather it didn't show up in the Journal view but it will be removed quickly by the remotejournal script (assuming the user has access to a school server). |
| 15:18 | If not, it will be there as it is now. | |
| 15:18 | iamutkarshtiwari | oh. |
| 15:19 | What are the datafiles for the activities like 'calculator', games , etc ? | |
| 15:19 | tony37 | The user can delete the object manually. Not saving the data file helps with reducing the space taken by the Journal. Normally, a data file will take more space than the metadata |
| 15:20 | Sadly, the activity can write a file on quit (using the write_file procedure). Activities have been pressured to save a file (wrongly). | |
| 15:21 | So an activity can choose to write a file whether one is needed or not | |
| 15:21 | iamutkarshtiwari | What type of datafiles to activities like - chat, calculator, speak save in the datastore? |
| 15:21 | tony37 | Browse is a good example. It saves the urls in each tab on quit as a data file (not as metadata which should be used) |
| 15:22 | Garbage | |
| 15:22 | Actually data files have a mime type so you would have to look at each file to see what is saved (see the details part of the Journal). | |
| 15:23 | These activities are actually saving state information to be used to resume (e.g. a game saves state so the player can continue the game). However, this can and should be done in the metadata and does not need a data file. | |
| 15:25 | iamutkarshtiwari | I'll then program 'save as' to not save datafiles should the user choose to 'discard' (But the entry will still appear in Journal). |
| 15:25 | tony37 | By the way. I created an html file which illustrates how I think the fiddler should work between output and console. I will send it to you as an e-mail attachment. |
| 15:25 | Yes, that is correct | |
| 15:26 | The fiddler generates the html code on the fly which makes it more difficult to see what is happening - this html shows in a static file what is needed. | |
| 15:28 | iamutkarshtiwari | Are we discussing about #SaveAs or the #JSFiddler ? |
| 15:28 | tony37 | For the html #fiddler. Not trying to confuse you. |
| 15:29 | iamutkarshtiwari | Let's first clear the air for the #SaveAs since it's originally the part of our GSoC proposal. |
| 15:29 | tony37 | OK |
| 15:29 | iamutkarshtiwari | We should halt #Fiddller for a while, we have spend too much time tweaking it to perfection. |
| 15:30 | tony37 | I don't expect perfection but it need to work |
| 15:30 | iamutkarshtiwari | I understand. But we need to complete this year's proposed tasks first. |
| 15:31 | tony37 | No, we need to complete all of them. Since fiddler is really last year's work - it should have some priority. |
| 15:31 | I regret that the version 14 was such a regression, but that happens (one step forward, two steps back). | |
| 15:32 | iamutkarshtiwari | It does indeed have priority, but let's first make some significant progress with this year's tasks. |
| 15:32 | tony37 | I also need to see progress on the save as feature. |
| 15:32 | iamutkarshtiwari | We can work out fiddler in the remaining time. |
| 15:33 | tony37 | So, you will get back to work after the trip (hopefully Monday). |
| 15:33 | *actually Tuesday | |
| 15:34 | iamutkarshtiwari | I will work tonight. Tomorrow I'll be doing some sight-seeing (possibly not be able to get on irc tomorrow). |
| 15:34 | tony37 | Ok - no problem. |
| 15:34 | iamutkarshtiwari | I'll be travelling back to India on Monday. So Teusday is when we can get back to our speed. |
| 15:34 | tony37 | As I understand it, #fiddler is hung up on the html5print feature |
| 15:35 | I also need to see the swap between output and console working cleanly | |
| 15:35 | iamutkarshtiwari | I am not that comfortable with JS/html/css so I find hard time figuring out the solutions. |
| 15:36 | tony37 | The html file I will send you should help you see what is needed. |
| 15:36 | iamutkarshtiwari | Thank you :) |
| 15:36 | tony37 | The html5print problem probably arose because you had access to them in your development environment and did not see the missing file |
| 15:36 | iamutkarshtiwari | As far as I remember, I had fixed the html5print dependency |
| 15:36 | and it was working fine. | |
| 15:37 | tony37 | It is not uncommon for a file like tinycss2 to appear in your environment even though not in the bundle. Then when tested on another system, it fails. |
| 15:38 | iamutkarshtiwari | What is 'tinycss2' ? |
| 15:38 | tony37 | That is the missing file that caused version 14 to fail |
| 15:38 | iamutkarshtiwari | Where is it included? |
| 15:38 | I mean the location? | |
| 15:39 | tony37 | You can try 'which' to see where it is found. |
| 15:39 | My guess is that it was installed when you pipped the package to your general environment | |
| 15:39 | iamutkarshtiwari | oh.. |
| 15:39 | I get it. | |
| 15:40 | You might be facing the issue because you had already pipped installed 'html5print' | |
| 15:40 | tony37 | I think there is a method to uninstall a package |
| 15:40 | iamutkarshtiwari | You need to first 'pip uninstall html5print' |
| 15:40 | for the dependency in the package to work. | |
| 15:41 | tony37 | I have never installed it. It is not included in the bundle. |
| 15:41 | iamutkarshtiwari | There is a 'html5print' folder in the xo bundle I sent you? |
| 15:41 | tony37 | Yes |
| 15:41 | iamutkarshtiwari | Then it should work fine. |
| 15:42 | tony37 | Tell that to the computer |
| 15:42 | iamutkarshtiwari | haha :D |
| 15:43 | Is tinycss no included in Sugar env by default? | |
| 15:43 | not* | |
| 15:43 | tony37 | Clearly no |
| 15:43 | iamutkarshtiwari | That's the problem. |
| 15:43 | What alternative woudl you suggest? | |
| 15:44 | tony37 | No, the problem is that the dependency needs to be satisfied in the Browse bundle |
| 15:44 | iamutkarshtiwari | since html5print has a lot of dependencies, i'll need to add all of them in the bundly to work. |
| 15:44 | tony37 | I suggest you uninstall the html5print package and then test the bundle. |
| 15:44 | iamutkarshtiwari | I did that and it still works. |
| 15:45 | I don't know why isn't the same working at your end. | |
| 15:45 | Might be that 'pip installing html5print' installs other dependencies side by side. | |
| 15:45 | tony37 | Python solves an import statement by searching the system path (see google for details). The 'which' command is supposed to show you where the file is found. |
| 15:45 | Yes | |
| 15:46 | iamutkarshtiwari | Don't worry, I'll include all the dependencies of html5print in the bundle. |
| 15:46 | It should fix most of the bugs you mentioned in the mail today. | |
| 15:46 | tony37 | Great! I look forward to testing version 15 |
| 15:47 | So far we have received no feedback on the issue with download overlapping the built-in alert in Browse | |
| 15:48 | iamutkarshtiwari | https://github.com/sugarlabs/b[…]comment-223558353 |
| 15:48 | I'll test the patch on an XO-4. Seems like the new Gtk version is causing some issue. | |
| 15:50 | #MidTermEvaluations | |
| 15:50 | tony37 | Seems like the url on github talks about a number of topics |
| 15:51 | Certainly testing the fiddler problem with html5print on an XO-4 should be effective. | |
| 15:52 | iamutkarshtiwari | I won't be able to do that until Monday (I only have access to an XO-4 at office) |
| 15:52 | tony37 | Understand - go see Kathmandu |
| 15:52 | iamutkarshtiwari | Or, I can try setting up a fresh sugar-build to test it separately. |
| 15:53 | Sure I'll do :) | |
| 15:53 | #MidTermEvaluations | |
| 15:53 | tony37 | I would prefer a 0.106 build which is a stable base for development. Trying to develop on a changing base is bound to be frustrating. |
| 15:54 | Don't work about midterm. That will be a report from me to Walter. | |
| 15:54 | iamutkarshtiwari | Evalutions are starting from 20th of this month. What are your expectations? |
| 15:54 | oh. | |
| 15:54 | tony37 | You are putting in the necessary effort. Naturally I would like more progress but I understand the difficulty coping with a development environment not representative of the XO |
| 15:55 | iamutkarshtiwari | But'll try to finish 'Save As' as quickly as possible. |
| 15:55 | tony37 | For midterm, that doesn't matter. Move forward where you can. I would like to get fiddler done so that it becomes available for use. |
| 15:56 | iamutkarshtiwari | Later to 'Save As' we need to decide #SugarResume |
| 15:56 | tony37 | Luckily, Sugar activities can be released independently of Sugar release levels and schedules. |
| 15:56 | iamutkarshtiwari | Yes, I agree. |
| 15:56 | tony37 | Remind me of what Sugar resume is |
| 15:56 | iamutkarshtiwari | n Sugar's Home View, a click on an activity icon by default resumes the most recent instance of the activity. This capability is designed into the Journal and is redundant in the Home View. A Sugar activity is a tool to enable the user to accomplish some task. If that task is not completed, the user can resume it via the Journal. If the tool is to be used on a new task, the user can launch it from the Home View. The |
| 15:57 | he intent of the user is to continue the most recent task with that tool. This task should set the Home View default to launch a new instance of the activity. The Alt key should be set to enable resuming a selected instance of the activity. By serendipity, this also shows the Home View with black and white icons. Icons with color signifying a resumable instance use the colors associated with the laptop. Unfortunatel | |
| 15:57 | tony37 | OK - for me very important. However, this was Walter's idea and so he is reluctant to admit it was an error. |
| 15:57 | This means we need to make it a configurable option. | |
| 15:58 | iamutkarshtiwari | An additional option in 'My settings' |
| 15:58 | tony37 | Unfortunately, configuration is moving from gconf to gsetting. I don't know where this stands. |
| 15:59 | My settings is the user visible interface for setting configurations. Gsettings is internal. We probably want to keep mysettings as simple as possible for 10-12 year olds. | |
| 15:59 | We probably should have a settings option like about:config which is used only by those in-the-know. | |
| 16:00 | iamutkarshtiwari | oh. |
| 16:00 | tony37 | In the case of the resume option - this would normally be set by deployment on all of the XOs before they are accessed by the students. |
| 16:00 | iamutkarshtiwari | where will that 'about:config' command run? |
| 16:01 | tony37 | Browse?! Consider at the moment that it is set by command line. |
| 16:01 | I believe this is done by editing a configuration file. | |
| 16:01 | iamutkarshtiwari | By command line do you mean 'terminal' in Sugar ? |
| 16:01 | tony37 | Yes |
| 16:01 | iamutkarshtiwari | Got it. |
| 16:01 | tony37 | Note: We also have ctrl+alt+N |
| 16:02 | iamutkarshtiwari | What's that for? |
| 16:02 | tony37 | Linux standard access to the shell |
| 16:02 | iamutkarshtiwari | It's Ctrl+alt+T I guess? |
| 16:02 | in Ubuntu. | |
| 16:03 | tony37 | where T is a number between 1 and 5 (I think) |
| 16:03 | iamutkarshtiwari | No,I mean 'T' ~ 'T' key on keyboard |
| 16:04 | #Kathmandu | |
| 16:04 | tony37 | Actually on an XO, ctrl+alt+the leftmost zoom key shows the home view where the next three keys show a shell. Give it a try with an XO |
| 16:04 | iamutkarshtiwari | Since I only have 1 day of sight-seeing, what place would you suggest me to visit ? |
| 16:06 | tony37 | You are near the old town area. Ask anyone (I forget the names). You can see the old traditional architecture. |
| 16:06 | This is an area which was hit hard by the earthquake | |
| 16:06 | iamutkarshtiwari | Have you been near to those mountains.? |
| 16:07 | tony37 | There is a plane trip to see Everest (takes an hour and $). Actually Everest and Annapurna are not close to Kathmandu. |
| 16:08 | iamutkarshtiwari | oh..But looking at those mountains from a distance gives a very nice feeling. |
| 16:08 | It'l like looking at one of the God's greatest creations. | |
| 16:08 | tony37 | Everything in Kathmandu is up and down so getting up high enough for a good view is easy |
| 16:08 | I need to run. I expect to hear from you Monday or Tuesday. Let me know by email. Bye | |
| 16:09 | tony37 has quit IRC | |
| 16:09 | iamutkarshtiwari | Sure. |
| 16:09 | Bye | |
| 16:09 | #endmeeting | |
| 16:09 | meeting | Meeting ended Sat Jun 18 16:09:15 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 16:09 | Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-18T14:18:07.html | |
| 16:09 | Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]16-06-18T14:18:07 | |
| 16:09 | iamutkarshtiwari has quit IRC |
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