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#sugar-newbies, 2016-06-18

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Time Nick Message
03:48 kevix <kevix!~kevin@pool-100-2-86-213.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has joined #sugar-newbies
03:49 kevix has left #sugar-newbies
11:15 meeting <meeting!~sugaroid@rev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-newbies
14:17 iamutkarshtiwari <iamutkarshtiwari!a32f9767@gateway/web/freenode/ip.> has joined #sugar-newbies
14:18 iamutkarshtiwari #startmeeting
14:18 meeting Meeting started Sat Jun 18 14:18:07 2016 UTC. The chair is iamutkarshtiwari. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:18 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
15:05 tony37 <tony37!~tony@> has joined #sugar-newbies
15:05 tony37 hello
15:05 iamutkarshtiwari hello
15:06 I have started working on #SaveAs
15:08 tony37 Good!
15:09 iamutkarshtiwari I have implemented the 'discard' option in the alert
15:09 tony37 OK
15:09 iamutkarshtiwari When the users selects the 'discard' option, it doesn't get saved in the Journal.
15:10 tony37 What doesn't get saved?
15:10 iamutkarshtiwari The entry in the Journal.
15:10 and the data.
15:10 tony37 However you need to save the metadata
15:10 iamutkarshtiwari The thing you were talking about, matadata.
15:10 If we save the metadata, it shows up in the Journal entry list.
15:11 Which we don't want to if the user discards the instance.
15:11 tony37 Sadly yes. However, the remotejournal will delete the local copy after uploading it to the server
15:12 We need to save the metadata so that it can be uploaded for use in statistical analysis (the log)
15:13 iamutkarshtiwari So even after the discard of object by the user, if the entry appears in the Journal, what's would be the use of 'Save As' then? It's like instance is still in the Journal even after the user discarded it.
15:13 tony37 The important point is the data file. It should not be saved.
15:15 iamutkarshtiwari But the main purpose of 'save as' is to provide user the choice to provided different names to instances on close.
15:15 So ideally, the entry should not appear
15:15 after discard.
15:15 tony37 Yes - in the standard desktop there is no metadata. What you are doing is the same as standard desktops re the data file
15:16 The metadata must always be saved - that is a requirement of Sugar
15:17 iamutkarshtiwari Do you want the entries to show up in Journal even after 'discard/not save' on close?
15:18 tony37 I really would rather it didn't show up in the Journal view but it will be removed quickly by the remotejournal script (assuming the user has access to a school server).
15:18 If not, it will be there as it is now.
15:18 iamutkarshtiwari oh.
15:19 What are the datafiles for the activities like 'calculator', games , etc ?
15:19 tony37 The user can delete the object manually. Not saving the data file helps with reducing the space taken by the Journal. Normally, a data file will take more space than the metadata
15:20 Sadly, the activity can write a file on quit (using the write_file procedure). Activities have been pressured to save a file (wrongly).
15:21 So an activity can choose to write a file whether one is needed or not
15:21 iamutkarshtiwari What type of datafiles to activities like - chat, calculator, speak  save in the datastore?
15:21 tony37 Browse is a good example. It saves the urls in each tab on quit as a data file (not as metadata which should be used)
15:22 Garbage
15:22 Actually data files have a mime type so you would have to look at each file to see what is saved (see the details part of the Journal).
15:23 These activities are actually saving state information to be used to resume (e.g. a game saves state so the player can continue the game). However, this can and should be done in the metadata and does not need a data file.
15:25 iamutkarshtiwari I'll then program 'save as' to not save datafiles should the user choose to 'discard' (But the entry will still appear in Journal).
15:25 tony37 By the way. I created an html file which illustrates how I think the fiddler should work between output and console. I will send it to you as an e-mail attachment.
15:25 Yes, that is correct
15:26 The fiddler generates the html code on the fly which makes it more difficult to see what is happening - this html shows in a static file what is needed.
15:28 iamutkarshtiwari Are we discussing about #SaveAs or the #JSFiddler ?
15:28 tony37 For the html #fiddler. Not trying to confuse you.
15:29 iamutkarshtiwari Let's first clear the air for the #SaveAs since it's originally the part of our GSoC proposal.
15:29 tony37 OK
15:29 iamutkarshtiwari We should halt #Fiddller for a while, we have spend too much time tweaking it to perfection.
15:30 tony37 I don't expect perfection but it need to work
15:30 iamutkarshtiwari I understand. But we need to complete this year's proposed tasks first.
15:31 tony37 No, we need to complete all of them. Since fiddler is really last year's work - it should have some priority.
15:31 I regret that the version 14 was such a regression, but that happens (one step forward, two steps back).
15:32 iamutkarshtiwari It does indeed have priority, but let's first make some significant progress with this year's tasks.
15:32 tony37 I also need to see progress on the save as feature.
15:32 iamutkarshtiwari We can work out fiddler in the remaining time.
15:33 tony37 So, you will get back to work after the trip (hopefully Monday).
15:33 *actually Tuesday
15:34 iamutkarshtiwari I will work tonight. Tomorrow I'll be doing some sight-seeing (possibly not be able to get on irc tomorrow).
15:34 tony37 Ok - no problem.
15:34 iamutkarshtiwari I'll be travelling back to India on Monday. So Teusday is when we can get back to our speed.
15:34 tony37 As I understand it, #fiddler is hung up on the html5print feature
15:35 I also need to see the swap between output and console working cleanly
15:35 iamutkarshtiwari I am not that comfortable with JS/html/css so I find hard time figuring out the solutions.
15:36 tony37 The html file I will send you should help you see what is needed.
15:36 iamutkarshtiwari Thank you :)
15:36 tony37 The html5print problem probably arose because you had access to them in your development environment and did not see the missing file
15:36 iamutkarshtiwari As far as I remember, I had fixed the html5print dependency
15:36 and it was working fine.
15:37 tony37 It is not uncommon for a file like tinycss2 to appear in your environment even though not in the bundle. Then when tested on another system, it fails.
15:38 iamutkarshtiwari What is 'tinycss2' ?
15:38 tony37 That is the missing file that caused version 14 to fail
15:38 iamutkarshtiwari Where is it included?
15:38 I mean the location?
15:39 tony37 You can try 'which' to see where it is found.
15:39 My guess is that it was installed when you pipped the package to your general environment
15:39 iamutkarshtiwari oh..
15:39 I get it.
15:40 You might be facing the issue because you had already pipped installed 'html5print'
15:40 tony37 I think there is a method to uninstall a package
15:40 iamutkarshtiwari You need to first 'pip uninstall html5print'
15:40 for the dependency in the package to work.
15:41 tony37 I have never installed it. It is not included in the bundle.
15:41 iamutkarshtiwari There is a 'html5print' folder in the xo bundle I sent you?
15:41 tony37 Yes
15:41 iamutkarshtiwari Then it should work fine.
15:42 tony37 Tell that to the computer
15:42 iamutkarshtiwari haha :D
15:43 Is tinycss no included in Sugar env by default?
15:43 not*
15:43 tony37 Clearly no
15:43 iamutkarshtiwari That's the problem.
15:43 What alternative woudl you suggest?
15:44 tony37 No, the problem is that the dependency needs to be satisfied in the Browse bundle
15:44 iamutkarshtiwari since html5print has a lot of dependencies, i'll need to add all of them in the bundly to work.
15:44 tony37 I suggest you uninstall the html5print package and then test the bundle.
15:44 iamutkarshtiwari I did that and it still works.
15:45 I don't know why isn't the same working at your end.
15:45 Might be that 'pip installing html5print' installs other dependencies side by side.
15:45 tony37 Python solves an import statement by searching the system path (see google for details). The 'which' command is supposed to show you where the file is found.
15:45 Yes
15:46 iamutkarshtiwari Don't worry, I'll include all the dependencies of html5print in the bundle.
15:46 It should fix most of the bugs you mentioned in the mail today.
15:46 tony37 Great! I look forward to testing version 15
15:47 So far we have received no feedback on the issue with download overlapping the built-in alert in Browse
15:48 iamutkarshtiwari https://github.com/sugarlabs/b[…]comment-223558353
15:48 I'll test the patch on an XO-4. Seems like the new Gtk version is causing some issue.
15:50 #MidTermEvaluations
15:50 tony37 Seems like the url on github talks about a number of topics
15:51 Certainly testing the fiddler problem with html5print on an XO-4 should be effective.
15:52 iamutkarshtiwari I won't be able to do that until Monday (I only have access to an XO-4 at office)
15:52 tony37 Understand - go see Kathmandu
15:52 iamutkarshtiwari Or, I can try setting up a fresh sugar-build to test it separately.
15:53 Sure I'll do :)
15:53 #MidTermEvaluations
15:53 tony37 I would prefer a 0.106 build which is a stable base for development. Trying to develop on a changing base is bound to be frustrating.
15:54 Don't work about midterm. That will be a report from me to Walter.
15:54 iamutkarshtiwari Evalutions are starting from 20th of this month. What are your expectations?
15:54 oh.
15:54 tony37 You are putting in the necessary effort. Naturally I would like more progress but I understand the difficulty coping with a development environment not representative of the XO
15:55 iamutkarshtiwari But'll try to finish 'Save As' as quickly as possible.
15:55 tony37 For midterm, that doesn't matter. Move forward where you can. I would like to get fiddler done so that it becomes available for use.
15:56 iamutkarshtiwari Later to 'Save As' we need to decide #SugarResume
15:56 tony37 Luckily, Sugar activities can be released independently of Sugar release levels and schedules.
15:56 iamutkarshtiwari Yes, I agree.
15:56 tony37 Remind me of what Sugar resume is
15:56 iamutkarshtiwari n Sugar's Home View, a click on an activity icon by default resumes the most recent instance of the activity. This capability is designed into the Journal and is redundant in the Home View. A Sugar activity is a tool to enable the user to accomplish some task. If that task is not completed, the user can resume it via the Journal. If the tool is to be used on a new task, the user can launch it from the Home View. The
15:57 he intent of the user is to continue the most recent task with that tool.  This task should set the Home View default to launch a new instance of the activity. The Alt key should be set to enable resuming a selected instance of the activity. By serendipity, this also shows the Home View with black and white icons. Icons with color signifying a resumable instance use the colors associated with the laptop. Unfortunatel
15:57 tony37 OK - for me very important. However, this was Walter's idea and so he is reluctant to admit it was an error.
15:57 This means we need to make it a configurable option.
15:58 iamutkarshtiwari An additional option in 'My settings'
15:58 tony37 Unfortunately, configuration is moving from gconf to gsetting. I don't know where this stands.
15:59 My settings is the user visible interface for setting configurations. Gsettings is internal. We probably want to keep mysettings as simple as possible for 10-12 year olds.
15:59 We probably should have a settings option like about:config which is used only by those in-the-know.
16:00 iamutkarshtiwari oh.
16:00 tony37 In the case of the resume option - this would normally be set by deployment on all of the XOs before they are accessed by the students.
16:00 iamutkarshtiwari where will that 'about:config' command run?
16:01 tony37 Browse?! Consider at the moment that it is set by command line.
16:01 I believe this is done by editing a configuration file.
16:01 iamutkarshtiwari By command line do you mean 'terminal' in Sugar ?
16:01 tony37 Yes
16:01 iamutkarshtiwari Got it.
16:01 tony37 Note: We also have ctrl+alt+N
16:02 iamutkarshtiwari What's that for?
16:02 tony37 Linux standard access to the shell
16:02 iamutkarshtiwari It's Ctrl+alt+T I guess?
16:02 in Ubuntu.
16:03 tony37 where T is a number between 1 and 5 (I think)
16:03 iamutkarshtiwari No,I mean  'T' ~ 'T' key on keyboard
16:04 #Kathmandu
16:04 tony37 Actually on an XO, ctrl+alt+the leftmost zoom key shows the home view where the next three keys show a shell. Give it a try with an XO
16:04 iamutkarshtiwari Since I only have 1 day of sight-seeing, what place would you suggest me to visit ?
16:06 tony37 You are near the old town area. Ask anyone (I forget the names). You can see the old traditional architecture.
16:06 This is an area which was hit hard by the earthquake
16:06 iamutkarshtiwari Have you been near to those mountains.?
16:07 tony37 There is a plane trip to see Everest (takes an hour and $). Actually Everest and Annapurna are not close to Kathmandu.
16:08 iamutkarshtiwari oh..But looking at those mountains from a distance gives a very nice feeling.
16:08 It'l like looking at one of the God's greatest creations.
16:08 tony37 Everything in Kathmandu is up and down so getting up high enough for a good view is easy
16:08 I need to run. I expect to hear from you Monday or Tuesday. Let me know by email. Bye
16:09 tony37 has quit IRC
16:09 iamutkarshtiwari Sure.
16:09 Bye
16:09 #endmeeting
16:09 meeting Meeting ended Sat Jun 18 16:09:15 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
16:09 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-18T14:18:07.html
16:09 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]16-06-18T14:18:07
16:09 iamutkarshtiwari has quit IRC

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