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#sugar-newbies, 2010-10-20

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16:26 infromthecold Good afternoon
16:32 I was wondering if you would know the target age for the olpc, as i want to to a project that teaches math and words and spelling in the mold of sesame street, or would the target be older than that
16:37 alsroot infromthecold: there are various activities, including activities like you're talking about, target age could be also various
16:37 infromthecold thanks
16:41 alsroot infromthecold: in fact some people (including me) think about sugar is not only about creating programs for *later* usage(by kids) but more about the one process where people(not only kids, but including kids) create something and teach themselves
16:47 infromthecold I have the skils and the time to create something, but what and who for :)
16:48 silbe <silbe!~silbe@2a01:198:408:1::1> has joined #sugar-newbies
16:50 infromthecold any ideas of what is NEEDED ?
16:50 alsroot infromthecold: thats all time a good thing to know this :), you can ask about special needs of some activities on http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ML list, it is list targeted more to educators
16:51 personally started work within sugar from something like this, but for now I got lots of work that relates more to sugar internals :)
16:53 infromthecold :) thanks for the link, Im an EX games developer, done 30+ games, since 1980s, so activities even in Python should be up my street
16:54 silbe g'evening!
16:54 infromthecold good evening
16:55 silbe infromthecold: just in case you were asking about things Sugar would benefit from (sorry for jumping into the discussion without listening for a while first): We have dire need for automated testing, especially automated UI tests.
16:56 infromthecold patricia.curtis@gmail.com, if you want to talk to me more in more depth
17:00 silbe infromthecold: was this directed at alsroot or me?
17:00 infromthecold oh sorry, you silbe
17:01 as i say i have time, but i want to do something in my skillset and that is intresting, benefits others within the OLPC project
17:07 silbe infromthecold: awesome! We can always need help, especially from experienced developers. You might be interested in the "Vacancies" wiki page (https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Vacancies). But like I said, IMO the most important important task (for someone with background as a developer) is automated UI tests.
17:07 infromthecold: Welcome, BTW!
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17:23 silbe infromthecold: I'll follow up via email if you're interested in details about the automated UI tests stuff. Or I'll just shut up if you're not. ;)
17:25 infromthecold LOL
17:29 well i dont want to upset anyone or put down their work on such a worthwhile project, but looking at the available activities with my game developer eyes, they do not inspire me. I feel i could do better, but then i will have to proove that as its easy to sit on my high horse
17:31 I think it would be best if i write something and submit it, as then i would have understood the limitations of the OX and sugar and either prooven im an idiot or an asset to the project(s)
17:35 alsroot infromthecold: agree, I did the same, the easiest way could be just creating an activity, the sugar core is just 3-4 not big python based projects, the rest (what might make more sense in some cases) is activities
17:36 though I don't have gamedev background and what I did is just recoding some of activities :)
17:40 silbe infromthecold: then you better not even try looking at their code ;)
17:41 infromthecold: at least some of them were written by interns during the early days of Sugar
17:42 infromthecold Yes, i think i am a little scrared of the Sugar Project as i am not from a Linux background (although i have dabbled) but having 30+ years in programming, i easily pick up new languages and systems, i would normally write somthing in c, but i understand the need for end user to have source code and python does not look that hard, even though i am suprised there is no Vsync in pygame.
17:42 yes other peoples code, is sometimes more trouble than its worth
17:46 silbe infromthecold: another important aspect is easy exchange of custom activities. With interpreted languages like Python you don't need to compile anything (which eliminates quite a can of worms). Just exchange the source code and you're done.
17:48 infromthecold: alsroot is working on integrating 0install with Sugar (project name 0sugar). It's quite a lot of work for the obvious reasons (different distros, different hardware, potentially expensive or no internet access, etc.).
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17:51 alsroot silbe: btw is how ds-2 going, I hope to announce bazaar Core project (git glucose) packages and start thinking about Core:Lab ie laboratory of experimental things like rainbow and your ds-2
17:51 silbe alsroot: depends on what you mean by ds-2
17:51 alsroot silbe: just what you did
17:52 silbe if you mean the git based rewrite that I don't think I ever mentioned anywhere, then there's no code yet and I even don't have the concept finished. ;)
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17:53 infromthecold :) well its good learn, i did not know what 0install was until you mentioned it, and am i right in assuming ds-2 is not a nintendo platform?
17:54 lucy00 hello, I have been looking at the sugar-love bugs and noticed that most of them appear to have fixes already... is there anything else thats needs to be done to those? or should I wait for updates?
17:54 alsroot silbe: anyway I'm thinking about something like staging glucose project w/ experimental features that not (yet) in glucose (or even won't be at all), core idea is having checkboxs in CP to enable/disable particualr feature and let people use/test them
17:55 infromthecold: for ds-2 I meant sugar-datastore  rewrite :)
17:56 silbe alsroot: so version support for the current data store? I intend to land it in 0.92. I've somewhat recently added support for emulating the old API (as well as is possible) and for keeping only a certain number of versions per entry (deleting the oldest entry when a newer one gets saved). that's not great, but a stopgap measure for the size overhead issue so we can ship a version support enabled data store to the users and work out better housekeepin
17:56 alsroot lucy00: if tickets are not closed then they are not committed to trunk, attached patches might be arguable or incomplete
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17:58 lucy00 alsroot: thanks!!
17:58 silbe lucy00: you might take a look at other bugs and judge for yourself whether you might be able to tackle them. not all of the easy ones are marked as sugar-love, especially not "older" ones.
17:59 alsroot lucy00: though some patches might be committed to trunk but not (yet) to some of stable branches
18:00 silbe: in 0.92.. next sugar could be too different to previous one :) I'm also planing/hopping to have 0install work there, it will be new glucose component that will handel all dependencies/activity-management stuff
18:00 silbe alsroot: interesting. it goes along my sugar-next lines, though I didn't envision ways to enable/disable patches as that's rather hard (and laboursome) to get right.
18:00 lucy00 is it a general consensus to contact the owner/maintainer before starting work on a bug?
18:01 alsroot lucy00: yup, it would be useful, maint might have vision on how it could be fixed
18:01 silbe alsroot: because of Gnome 3 we have a major API change anyway, so now is a good time to land stuff we want in the long run and that change API.
18:02 alsroot lucy00: you can find info about maints on http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/D[…]m/Release/Modules
18:02 lucy00 alsroot: great, thanks for your help
18:04 alsroot yw
18:06 silbe infromthecold: I'm curious for what activity you'll come up with :)
18:07 infromthecold sothing like this
18:07 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8sbDFvXzGs
18:07 silbe infromthecold: oh, you might be interested in knowing about some team at the RIT. They're working on a game-like activity; IIRC it was something RPG-style for learning math and called Fortune Hunter.
18:09 hmm, looks like I need to update youtube-dl first
18:10 infromthecold lmao
18:11 alsroot infromthecold: you also can talk w/ GCompris people (http://gcompris.net/), it is bunch of small app for kids (mostly written in C but there are python ones as well)
18:12 silbe d'oh, that's going to take some time. 114MB via 802.11b (=> 360KB/s)
18:15 infromthecold ouch
18:25 alsroot infromthecold: btw GCopris channle in #Gcompris and ericb2 GC main dev
18:26 s/in/is/
18:27 hmm maybe ericb2 is not main GC dev
18:39 silbe infromthecold: I'm not quite sold on the educational value of this application, but then A/V was totally out of sync so maybe the voices / sound effects in the background (that didn't make sense to me) make up for at least a part of it. and there's definitely something lost in the translation for me - in the video it seems as if Kindergarten is after pre-school, while it's the other way round here: Kindergarten is 3yr up, primary school 6yr up, pre-s
18:42 infromthecold Yes thats why my first question was asking about the target age group for the OX
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18:44 alsroot infromthecold: GCompris is also targeted to 2 to 10 age
18:45 but, afaik, people don't see problems in having GC in sugar
18:45 silbe infromthecold: target age for XO is primary and secondary school children IIRC (someone else can probably give you a better answer, including taking country differences into account). Target age for Sugar is at least the same, though personally I'm targeting adults, too (no age limit at all).
18:47 infromthecold I suppose Primary amongst the poor is not the same as Priamry amongst the beter off.
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19:12 infromthecold Anyhow laters silbe, aslroot
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19:41 mukul alsroot: hi
19:41 alsroot mukul: hi
19:42 mukul alsroot: I was working on sugar SL 2201. Can you tell me which file should I be looking at?
19:43 alsroot mukul: grep for ClipboardMenu class
19:43 mukul Ok
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