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Time	Nick	Message
20:11	meeting	Meeting started Wed Apr 1 20:11:17 2020 UTC. The chair is pro-panda. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:11		Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
20:11	pro-panda	#chair Quozl
20:11	meeting	Current chairs: Quozl pro-panda
20:12	Quozl	sorry for the delay, i was washing my hands. ;-) slept in, unusually overcast, sun did not wake as it normally would.
20:12	pikurasa	Quozl: no worries
20:13		Where to start?
20:13		pro-panda has quit IRC
20:14	Quozl	pikurasa: you. any reports as your role as conservancy liaison?
20:14	pikurasa	I have not made contact with SFC recently (I suppose I should reach out to them), but nothing to report as liason.
20:14	Quozl	#topic reports, conservancy
20:14	pikurasa	(nothing)
20:14	Quozl	okay, that's easy. reports from membership and elections committee next.
20:14		#topic reports, membership and elections committee
20:14		ibiam, you're liaison, anything to report?
20:15	ibiam	Nothing to report.
20:15	Quozl	okay.
20:15		#topic reports, ombudsman
20:16		ombudsman is not here, but i can tell you that bert unsubscribed this week and i said thanks and goodbye.
20:16		pro-panda <pro-panda!9d31cd14157.49.205.20> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:16	Quozl	#topic google code-in
20:16	walterbender	we need an ombudsman
20:16	Quozl	i've heard that the winners' trips were cancelled due to pandemic.
20:16	ibiam	I thought we had one.
20:17	MrBIOS-	walterbender what happend to our current/previous one?
20:17	Claudia_	I can imagine how it busy people are... I am extra busy with work and home
20:17	Quozl	we have one.
20:17		#topic google summer of code
20:18	pikurasa	walterbender: maybe you can report on GSoC?
20:18	Quozl	we have plenty of proposals, some of them good. i've not much to say on them except that it will be a lot of work for our mentors to review them, and that has to happen by 22nd. with exponential growth on our minds, i'm inclined to leave things to the last moment, just like many of our students did. ;-) walter?
20:18	walterbender	I have very good MB applicants
20:18	pikurasa	gave his input on Music Blocks proposals
20:18	MrBIOS-	Quozl it's also possible Google may defer that due date. Perhaps even likely.
20:19	walterbender	I will review the others this weekend.
20:19	ibiam	+1
20:19	Quozl	MrBIOS-: yes, it is possible. they have adjusted their schedule once already, so that means they are inclined to do it again if they have to.
20:19	ibiam	I haven't been able to look at proposals as we've been having power surges here lately.
20:19	MrBIOS-	Quozl do you think any of the issues around potential plagiarism is something that should disqualify anyone, at this point?
20:20	pikurasa	"potential" ?
20:20	Quozl	MrBIOS-: no. the issue wased i felt was copying of my text in the project idea and links from it.
20:20	Claudia_	It may be good to engage kids more since they are at home
20:20	ibiam	pikurasa: there was an issue in the mailing list.
20:20	Quozl	s/wased/raised
20:20	pikurasa	oh, I see
20:20	Claudia_	just to give perspective... 1.5B learners affected by Covid-19
20:20		pro-panda has quit IRC
20:21	pikurasa	Claudia_: I agree
20:21	Claudia_	can we push a bit forward to offer some challenges of our own to encourage engagement?
20:21	MrBIOS-	Claudia_, sure, any specific ideas?
20:21	Claudia_	walterbender has been doing some online facilitation... and we can make it more visible
20:22	pikurasa	Quozl: I think we are on a new topic
20:23		pro-panda <pro-panda!9d31cd14157.49.205.20> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:23	walterbender	maybe we should look into using jitsi periodically for community meetups
20:23	Quozl	the pandemic is an existential priority, so learning naturally slips down the list. at my school, teachers have reported difficulty creating new lesson plans, and are slipping into making distracting activities.
20:23		(at my school, about 50% of students are present; those who have parents working in essential services, food production etc.)
20:24	pro-panda	(Might get dropped off again, the client I'm using seems to be flaky)
20:24	Quozl	#topic another topic yet to be defined
20:24	pikurasa	Many US schools are completely shut down
20:24		I think this is an important topic: What to do with the present circumstances?
20:24	Claudia_	a few states have schools open
20:25	pikurasa	Sugar Labs' role in today's society
20:25	MrBIOS-	my wife is a first grade school teacher, it has been a huge adjustment for her, her teaching team (six other first grade teachers at her school) and their students. Schools in California are not expected to open up for in-person instruction for the remainder of the school year, though the formal order hasn't come down from the governor yet.
20:25		The state superintendent of schools has been talking about it, however.
20:25	Quozl	well, you can guess my position; while i'm being paid, i'll keep working on sugar, activities, and olpc os. otherwise i'll be off and leave you guys to it. as for what sugar labs _can_ do, we can't release relevant activities fast enough at the rate we develop new stuff.
20:25	pikurasa	Look, what the schools here are sending out is: "Just use Google Classroom for the time being"
20:26		(I think Sugar is better)
20:27	Quozl	i had expected at least a hand washing activity in sugarizer. ;-} is lionel here?
20:27	MrBIOS-	yes, there is immense pressure on teachers to "just use Google Classroom"
20:27	pikurasa	Quozl: ok, but without relevancy, then we are really dead in the water...
20:27	MrBIOS-	he's absent, go figure. I don't understand why he's wants to be on the board, honestly.
20:28	ibiam	pikurasa: I agree, sugar is better.
20:28	pikurasa	walterbender: suggested Jitsi meetups. I have been having success with it with my own teaching. We could use it to start something
20:28	MrBIOS-	we all have personal and family responsibilities, but if you are unable to set aside the necessary time on a regular basis to attend, what's the point? Participation shouldn't be optional.
20:29		pikurasa sounds good to me, I assume it's free?
20:29	Claudia_	Quozl: I am sure there is a need for reviewing and providing some support for exisiting activities... so I wonder about producing new ones.. could we focus on ways to engage with existing ones for Covid-19 related...
20:29	pikurasa	yes as in pizza and speech
20:29	MrBIOS-	cool.
20:29	ibiam	MrBIOS-: yeah it's open source.
20:29	Quozl	i can report an uptick in expressions of interest for laptops, but the main cause of that is the sudden supply chain load, and how the factories have dried up. olpc might get to sell some old stock, but making new laptops is costly and risky at the moment.
20:29	pikurasa	(avoids "beer" cuz I work with kids so much)
20:29	Claudia_	BUT think about ways in which we can provide support long term
20:31	Quozl	from my server logs, olpc laptops are not being used as much this month as they were last month, and i'm guessing the main effect is displacement of activity in learning systems and costs of power.
20:31	ibiam	Claudia_: An activity that teaches about Covid-19 can be created but modifying an existing activity for Covid-19 wouldn't be great.
20:32	Quozl	there are WHO maintained pages in several languages. at minimum an activity could be a virus logo which redirects to that content for the local language setting or says go talk to your doctor.
20:32	Claudia_	more than activities, I want ideas that engage kids with creating and using activities
20:33	MrBIOS-	We don't really have an easy way of distributing such an activity, though, do we?
20:33	Quozl	it is risky to make an activity that focuses on pandemic, without being able to distribute updates quickly.
20:33		we could so easily mislead people with old information.
20:33	pikurasa	I did not get the impression that is what Claudia_ was saying
20:35	Quozl	okay, any suggestions on how to concentrate the discussion?
20:35	Claudia_	pikurasa: I was discouraging the idea of a new activity, but suggesting we focus on what we have...
20:36		I want to acknowledge though the need to provide support and maintenance of Activities in Sugar
20:36	MrBIOS-	Claudia_ +1, it is something we have historically neglected, to the detriment of the greater project.
20:36	ibiam	MrBIOS-: yes we don't, if we wanted to put the activity on aslo we'll have to write it in python2 and that's not a good idea. Github would be where it'll reside as we don't have a store for python3 activities yet.
20:37	Claudia_	walterbender: we can think about challenges you can share in social media and direct people to turtle art
20:37	Quozl	Claudia_: yes, that's true. i did write to everyone on the board in the past month with some ideas on that. i didn't get any response from alex or devin though, so i guess i could ask; did they get my private mail?
20:37	Claudia_	blocks
20:38	MrBIOS-	I personally would like to suggest we identify a core group of activities, (I propose the so-called Sucrose activities, most of which are already working) and a handful of others, and then determine a way to fix them in an expeditious manner. A month or two.
20:38	Claudia_	Quozl: I did... I responded
20:38	MrBIOS-	Quozl what was the subject of the e-mail, I will search for it. I may have missed it.
20:39	pikurasa	Quozl: I did not see it. Sorry. I will look again
20:39	Quozl	Subject: Confidential: a contractor for Sugar maintenance
20:39	MrBIOS-	yeah, I definitely did _not_ see that
20:40	Quozl	okay, thanks. i got busy and didn't keep pushing. i do think we need to meet more frequently to get anything done, but not sure if middle of a pandemic is going to work for increasing our meeting rate. ;-}
20:40	MrBIOS-	just searched my inbox, nothing, can you forward it again? I will also PM you another e-mail address.
20:40	ibiam	MrBIOS-: Are you suggesting we package the core group and handful of activities separately?
20:40	MrBIOS-	I agree, we need to meet more frequently.
20:40	ibiam	I was going to propose a motion for that today.
20:41		Meet frequently and also use jitsi for some of our meetings.
20:41	pikurasa	If anyone wants to try Jitsi (after the meeting), I am in https://meet.jit.si/sugarlabs (recommend Chrome or Chromium)
20:41	Quozl	proposed motion; meet every two weeks instead if every month. (we can change out minds later).
20:42	MrBIOS-	seconded
20:42	pikurasa	+1
20:42	Quozl	s/change out/change our/
20:42	pro-panda	+1
20:42	MrBIOS-	+1
20:42	ibiam	+1
20:43	Claudia_	+1
20:43	walterbender	:)
20:43	ibiam	Proposed motion: we add jitsi as a mode of meeting that we decide when to use.
20:44	pikurasa	Maybe every other meeting is Jitsi?
20:44	MrBIOS-	videoconferencing may be problematic and error prone in the short term, given the stresses placed upon all ISPs, globally.
20:44		samsongoddy has quit IRC
20:44	MrBIOS-	We can try that, pikurasa
20:44	Quozl	agreed motion 2020-06; meet every two weeks instead of every month.
20:44	pikurasa	Because we have such a culture of IRC, and its persist ency is nice (for voting)
20:44		samsongoddy <samsongoddy!~androirc169.159.127.120> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:45	Claudia_	I never used jitsi, but I imagine it is easy to setup
20:45	Quozl	let's try jitsi for the next meeting. i don't think it needs a formal motion, but all in favour of trying it for that meeting?
20:45	ibiam	MrBIOS-: that's why I said we can decide when we want to use it.
20:45	pikurasa	+1
20:45	MrBIOS-	Quozl I'm in favor
20:45	ibiam	I'm in favour.
20:45	Claudia_	=1
20:45		+1
20:45	Quozl	pro-panda: ?
20:46	pikurasa	Claudia_: it is easy, but I do recommend trying it once before the meeting
20:46	pro-panda	+1
20:46	pikurasa	An FYI is, for mobile, you need their Jitsi Meet app (for iPhone or Android)
20:47	Quozl	i'll install the app after we've closed this meeting, so i can test with others.
20:47	pikurasa	(pointing a browser to the site does not work for mobile)
20:47	Claudia_	will do, pikurasa
20:47	pikurasa	With a browser, no app is needed
20:47	MrBIOS-	I would also like to propose we develop a policy for how to deal with chronically-absentee board members.
20:47	Quozl	any other topics?
20:47	pikurasa	but Chrome (or FF) needs to be up-to-date
20:47	MrBIOS-	this has been a problem several times
20:47		not just during COVID
20:48	ibiam	Quozl: Yes, a motion that was agreed on but wasn't implemented.
20:48		https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/[…]isions#2019-01-21
20:48	MrBIOS-	anybody willing to second?
20:48	Quozl	ibiam: you mean 2020-05?
20:48	pikurasa	maybe a 1. yellow card, 2. red card, 3. your out system?
20:48	ibiam	MrBIOS-: I agree, you have anything in mind?
20:48		Quozl: 2019-01-21
20:49	MrBIOS-	ibiam, I'm less concerned with the exact mechanics at this point, but pikurasa's suggestion is as good as any.
20:50	Quozl	we have in our governance some mechanism to deal with absent board members, but if you're talking about lionel, he's only missed this one this year, and we don't know if he had a good reason. i think we need to give him the benefit of the doubt, and remember that an additional meeting will make this problem less of a problem or make things clearer.
20:51	MrBIOS-	Quozl, he has also consistently been absent in the past, and I've pointed it out in writing, before I was a member of the oversight board.
20:51	Quozl	we also have quite enough people on the board, and we can operate without him if we have to.
20:52	MrBIOS-	Agreed, but obviously that's not ideal.
20:53	Claudia_	he has opinions...
20:53	ibiam	Is anyone going to say anything about the topic I just brought up?
20:53	MrBIOS-	ibiam, "Proposed motion: we add jitsi as a mode of meeting that we decide when to use."? this, or something else?
20:54	Quozl	ibiam: MrBIOS- was slightly first with a real motion, sorry. MrBIOS-: finished with the topic yet?
20:54	ibiam	MrBIOS-: This motion that was agreed on but wasn't implemented.
20:54		(ibiam) https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/[…]isions#2019-01-21
20:55	Claudia_	money for samsom?
20:55		* Samson
20:55	ibiam	Quozl: Yeah just noticed.
20:55	Quozl	ibiam: do you mean motion 2019-04?
20:55	ibiam	Claudia_: yes, the motion was agreed on but Samson says he hasn't received anything.
20:56		Quozl: No I mean, 2019-01-21.
20:56		There's a link above.
20:56	Quozl	ibiam: there's no such motion number. what is the motion number on that date?
20:57	pikurasa	Not paid?
20:57	MrBIOS-	That was due to internal politics at SFC, if memory serves, are you proposing we reimburse Samson via funds from Sugar Labs, Inc.?
20:57		Quozl https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/[…]isions#2019-01-21
20:57		the hyperlink is supposed to take you to the date in question
20:58	Claudia_	anything we can do?
20:58	Quozl	MrBIOS-: that's why i'm asking if it is motion 2019-04, 'cause that's the only one i can see.
20:58	MrBIOS-	At least in Firefox, it doesn't seem to though. Broken anchor.
20:58		Quozl, I'll copy-paste it here: pay $890 of unmet costs for trip by Samson Goddy to London for Sustain Summit, Mozfest, and meetings with Scratch and Google Open Source team.
20:58		that was our agreed motion
20:58	Quozl	yes, that's motion 2019-04, it says so just before it, on the assumption that this is motion, this became ticket #3530 with the conservancy.
20:59	ibiam	pikurasa: yes not paid.
20:59	MrBIOS-	correct, I believe they wouldn't pay it because it violated their travel policies?
21:00	Quozl	okay, i've reviewed the discussion with conservancy. the request was denied because it was outside the rules, and the ticket was closed. samson was notified.
21:00	ibiam	MrBIOS-: The board can decide if they want to pay him via funds from Sugar Labs Inc.
21:00		I'm just learning the reason why the request was denied.
21:01	pikurasa	ibiam: It is beyond the 90 days
21:01	ibiam	Yes it is.
21:01	pikurasa	(is what I hear from Quozl)
21:01	Quozl	the ticket was handled by bradley m. kuhn.
21:02		last activity on the ticket was feb 14.
21:02		srevinsaju has quit IRC
21:02	MrBIOS-	did we lose pro-panda?
21:03	Quozl	pro-panda: ?
21:04	MrBIOS-	ibiam we would need to understand the legal implications of paying out money for an event that preceeded the creation of the entity that is paying it out. That's my only concern, but it's a big one. I'm otherwise supportive of the proposal, in theory.
21:04	Quozl	devin and i have been discussin this via jitsi just now, as prior and current conservancy liaisons.
21:04	MrBIOS-	Sugar Labs, Inc. didn't exist as an entity prior to June of 2019.
21:05	pikurasa	There are a lot of implications to this that are kind of out of our control
21:05	Quozl	the new org can't go against conservancy policy without risking the remainder of the funds being held.
21:05		pro-panda has quit IRC
21:06	MrBIOS-	That is a significant concern, as well.
21:06	pikurasa	on top of that, we would need to ask an accountant about a reimbursement for travel done so long ago (and before the org started)
21:06	Quozl	at heart the problem was that the board, in late 2019 before i joined it, failed to respond to samson, and samson failed to follow up within the 90-day time frame that he was aware of.
21:07	Claudia_	This is such a bad time for trying to get it done... in the middle of the crisis
21:09	MrBIOS-	I agree, but a board member made a motion, and we don't get to choose. Is there room for a creative solution here, where perhaps we offer a ~$900 "grant" to Samson for ...something that's not travel?
21:09		it's a sticky wicket.
21:09	pikurasa	I will ask the accountant, that is what I can do/
21:09		no guarantees
21:10	ibiam	pikurasa: thanks.
21:10	MrBIOS-	+1 I think that's all we can do.
21:10	Quozl	any other business for the meeting? we are over time.
21:10	pikurasa	next meeting time
21:10	Quozl	i propose 15th as next meeting.
21:10		same time of day.
21:10	pikurasa	sure
21:10	MrBIOS-	works for me
21:10	pikurasa	second
21:10	ibiam	+1.
21:11	Quozl	we lost rahul.
21:11		Claudia_: ?
21:11	ibiam	Quozl: send you a PM.
21:11		Sent.
21:11	MrBIOS-	Quozl probably network congestion related. His IP is not responsive to ping
21:12	Claudia_	+1
21:12	Quozl	okay, agreed.
21:12		i propose we close the meeting now.
21:12	pikurasa	second
21:12		I will be on https://meet.jit.si/sugarlabs for about 5-10 more minutes if anyone wants to join
21:12	MrBIOS-	+1
21:12	Claudia_	sorry.. I entered a different meeting now
21:12		+1
21:13	ibiam	+1.
21:13	Quozl	#endmeeting
21:14	meeting	Meeting ended Wed Apr 1 21:13:58 2020 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
21:14		Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-01T20:11:17.html
21:14		Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]20-04-01T20:11:17

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#sugar-meeting meeting, 2020-04-01 20:11:17