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#sugar-meeting meeting, 2020-01-01 20:00:40

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20:00 meeting Meeting started Wed Jan  1 20:00:40 2020 UTC. The chair is Quozl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:00 pikurasa and libraries
20:00 meeting Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
20:00 Quozl #topic quorum
20:00 pikurasa thank you Quozl
20:01 walterbender: would you mind to ping claudia
20:01 ?
20:01 walterbender ok
20:01 Quozl let's see, we have devin, james, walter, alex, and some visitors.  could the visitors please identify for the record, if you would like to?
20:01 Favour Hello
20:01 Bottersnike Hello
20:01 Quozl we have quorum, but are missing samson, lionel, and claudia.
20:02 meeting Quozl: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
20:02 Quozl #topic agenda
20:02 walterbender I have a few topics
20:02 gci
20:02 gsoc
20:02 election
20:02 funding
20:02 pikurasa Quozl: I just want to talk about 1023 status and accounting/book-keeping briefly
20:02 boring, I know
20:02 Quozl i've the unsupported operating systems issue; just found meeting is on jita, which is ubuntu 12.04
20:03 satellit <satellit!~satellit@2601:602:880:d540::bfb4> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:03 Quozl i suggest we go for the 1023 status first.
20:03 #topic 1023 and accounting
20:03 MrBIOS I just pinged Samson
20:03 pikurasa Quozl: as for 1023, it is 2020 and not yet complete.
20:04 Kyle tried to help us complete by the end of the year, but we still have some loose ends
20:04 We are about 90% of the way there, I think
20:04 Quozl we can never assume people will answer mails or other contacts, i've found repeated attempts matter.
20:04 MrBIOS yep, I propose we have a "workshop" of sorts to get it across the finish line.
20:04 llaske <llaske!~llaske@2a01cb00074daf009d35a88bd82​0a92f.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:04 walterbender +1
20:05 pikurasa MrBIOS: I agree. Set aside 2-3 hours of an afternoon would be good
20:05 Quozl llaske: welcome, topic is 1023 and accounting.
20:05 MrBIOS Samson says he is coming
20:05 pikurasa We need to make sure everyone is on the same page.
20:05 MrBIOS having hotspot issues.
20:05 pikurasa And I think we need to do it soon-ish to avoid needing to ask SFC for more time
20:05 llaske has left #sugar-meeting
20:05 samsongoddy <samsongoddy!~samsongod@169.159.89.153> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:05 pikurasa samsongoddy: howdy!
20:06 samsongoddy: please pm your home address
20:06 MrBIOS looks like llaske may be having connection problems too :P
20:06 pikurasa I need it for 1023
20:06 Thanks!
20:06 samsongoddy hello, sorry for coming late, had some connection issue
20:06 Okay, sure
20:06 Quozl so re the topic, your suggestion is to defer it?
20:07 pikurasa As for accounting and book-keeping, we need to get help to submit 2019 taxes as our new entity, I think (I need to see the form IRS sent us to be sure, but I think it is the case).
20:07 walterbender samsongoddy, please send pikurasa your home address
20:07 pikurasa I found a bookkeeping company that was recommended called ABC
20:08 samsongoddy Done
20:08 llaske <llaske!~lionel@2a01cb00074daf00011acddde45​44ab4.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:08 llaske Sorry I'm back, had an issue. Hi all
20:08 MrBIOS pikurasa great, do they have any experience with non-profits?
20:08 pikurasa yes they do
20:09 They charge something like $90/hour
20:09 which seems typical
20:09 Quozl llaske: welcome, i hear you.
20:09 MrBIOS yep, that's about the going rate. How do you propose we engage with them? Where are they based, and are they technically competent?
20:09 Quozl pikurasa: i dunno about there, but here they would have to have suitable registrations; do they?
20:10 pikurasa MrBIOS: They have one person who is very technically competent, Annie
20:10 She is the one who came recommended by a web developer company
20:10 Quozl it's always good to have accountants with professional liability or e&oe insurance.
20:10 pikurasa They are in NY
20:11 MrBIOS pikurasa, great, website? Are any of them CPAs?
20:11 That's Certified Professional Accountant, for non-US folk
20:11 samsongo_ <samsongo_!~samsongod@169.159.124.183> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:11 pikurasa https://bookkeeping.coop/home/
20:12 I am unsure if any of them are accountants, but they have a partnership with an accounting firm
20:12 Wegner, is the name, I think
20:12 samsongoddy has quit IRC
20:12 pikurasa At any rate, that is where I am at -- just exploring options
20:13 MrBIOS okay, we can engage with them, and figure out if they're right for us, it makes sense at this point, any objections from anyone else?
20:13 pikurasa Their initial assessment is a little under $300, fyi
20:13 Quozl it's a new board responsibility, so i've nothing further to add.
20:13 walterbender just heard that Claudia will not be able to join us
20:14 pikurasa One time fee
20:14 Quozl walterbender: thanks.  claudia is an explicit apology then.
20:14 pikurasa: are you content with the discussion on the topic so we can move on?
20:14 pikurasa Yes
20:14 I don't want to talk about finances any more
20:14 :p
20:15 MrBIOS just wait until we get to fundraising :P
20:15 Quozl walterbender: your turn.
20:15 #topic gci, gsoc
20:16 (after that, i'll say topic is election, then our vulnerable infrastructure, and leave fundraising for last, if everyone is okay with that.)
20:18 walterbender #topic gci
20:18 going well
20:18 lots of participation and some real progress on Python 3 porting, Music Blocks bug fixes and long-needed overhauls
20:18 MrBIOS What's the timeframe? End date?
20:18 walterbender 3 more weeks
20:19 459 students so far
20:19 of course 55 are amazing
20:19 ^55^5%
20:19 llaske Just shared with us a CSV file with instances if anyone want to do some stats
20:20 walterbender +1
20:20 MrBIOS That's great, we should do a write-up once we're done, and potentially use it for marketing purposes.
20:20 samsongoddy <samsongoddy!~samsongod@154.66.17.17> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:20 walterbender yes...
20:20 MrBIOS and by we, I mean you, Walter ;)
20:20 walterbender we usually get a great blog or two from students at the end
20:21 #task GCI writeup
20:21 switching to GSoC
20:21 pikurasa We do get great blogs from students. It would be nice to have one blog on SL site that links to those great student blogs.
20:21 walterbender #topic GSoC 2020
20:21 llaske About 40 issues fixed on the Sugarizer side
20:22 walterbender the application window is opening soon so we should decide whether or not to do it again this year
20:22 I am in favor as I have had very good students over the years: Favour for example
20:22 Quozl i felt gsoc 2019 wasn't particularly successful; we get way more out of a single gci task than we do out of a week or gsoc.
20:22 MrBIOS I'm in favor of it, it's good exposure if nothing else.
20:23 walterbender but I understand that others have been disappointed.
20:23 samsongo_ has quit IRC
20:23 Quozl it's a problem of return on investment, mainly.
20:23 MrBIOS but yes, we should be highly selective
20:23 llaske I'm in favor. Great features added this year to Sugarizer thanks to GSoC
20:23 MrBIOS Quozl, I completely agree
20:23 walterbender Quozl, I agree that GCI is more return for our mentoring investment
20:23 pikurasa The main benefit of GSoC is work on larger projects.
20:24 walterbender we need to be very selective and (like last year) turn down slots if we don't have the mentors to handle them
20:24 llaske On Sugarizer all GSoC projects are integrated and released
20:24 walterbender same with MB
20:24 MrBIOS llaske that's great news
20:24 Quozl we can't tell ahead of time who will do the right thing.  we saw commits that were probably subcontracted work; complete style changes and only cognitive failure could explain the difference.
20:24 pikurasa That being said, there are some students that are admitted that should not be continued once it has been determined that they are unproductive.
20:24 walterbender Quozl, we have failed students in the past.
20:25 MrBIOS that's good to know
20:26 Quozl in preparation for gsoc, i can report about 49 new subscriptions since 18th november, each of which i've sent my how to get started message.
20:26 of those, about five replied to me.
20:26 walterbender I've had many too, sent to me individually... same deal
20:27 maybe some of the GCI students will be in Uni next year?
20:27 Quozl the subscriptions are mostly (~85% to ~95%) from india.  one of last year's gsoc students told me privately there is a play book in the universities.
20:27 walterbender not sure if they can apply yet :P
20:27 Quozl, yes... actually same deal with GCI --- some schools push it
20:27 MrBIOS Quozl, yes, I wonder to what extent it's posturing for resume-padding.
20:27 walterbender of course it is for some
20:27 but some are legit
20:28 Quozl walterbender: it was said to be a non-official playbook, but i can't prove that.
20:28 walterbender and regardless of their motives, if they make real contributions...
20:28 MrBIOS agreed, at the end, that's what matters.
20:28 Quozl at the moment, 90% of the new subscriptions make no contribution at all.
20:28 walterbender Maybe we can do interviews this year
20:28 pikurasa Interviews would be nice, I think
20:28 walterbender 10% is a decent return
20:29 MrBIOS I'm strongly in favor of light interviews
20:29 Quozl i think it's wishful thinking.
20:29 MrBIOS if they can't be bothered to show up for the interview, that's a great way to weed out time-wasters
20:29 pikurasa Yes
20:30 If they do not do the interview, then they cannot be accepted
20:30 Quozl walterbender: it is half way on time, care to move on to election yet?
20:30 walterbender can propose a motion for GSoC?
20:30 Quozl sure.
20:30 walterbender motion: Walter will prepare an application on behalf of Sugar Labs for GSoC.
20:31 llaske Seconded, I can help if need
20:31 Quozl and submit?
20:31 MrBIOS +1
20:31 walterbender It will be vetted by the board before submission
20:31 Quozl oh.
20:31 walterbender (that was line 2 of the motion)
20:31 Quozl did we do that before?  i thought we just agreed to submit.
20:31 Favour +1
20:31 pikurasa +1
20:32 walterbender I would like feedback, but I suppose we need not require it as the application itself is just boilerplate.
20:32 Quozl 2019-02 "Sugar Labs will apply for Google Summer of Code 2019", i propose the motion is amended to the same, with 2020 as the year.
20:32 walterbender +1
20:32 llaske +1
20:32 Quozl +1
20:32 MrBIOS +1
20:32 walterbender second Quozl motion
20:33 samsongoddy, ??? pikurasa ???
20:33 samsongoddy +1
20:33 pikurasa +1
20:33 Quozl carried.
20:33 next?
20:33 walterbender #topic election
20:33 ibiam is not here... but he did send email out re a January election
20:33 Quozl (by the way, would our visitors please identify themselves for our records ... don't worry about interrupting the flow).
20:34 walterbender I will ask that he send an update
20:34 Quozl i note ibiam has also stood as a candidate.
20:34 llaske Nice to see he's candidate
20:34 walterbender OK. Then we will need to find someone to run the election.
20:34 MrBIOS agreed
20:34 walterbender I will solicit volunteers from the community
20:34 samsongoddy I can do that
20:35 Bottersnike Re-identifying self as visitor present in meeting.
20:35 walterbender OK with me.
20:35 samsongoddy I am up for election
20:35 walterbender Bottersnike is a GCI participant
20:35 Quozl pikurasa: reminder; the new organisation will need to decide after the election if they will offer a seat on the board to any elected members of the old organisation.
20:35 eohomegrownapps is identifying as a visitor
20:35 samsongoddy So I don't think I should
20:35 walterbender samsongoddy if you are up for reelection you need to stand down from the committee
20:35 Favour Identifying myself as a  visitor present in the meeting
20:35 walterbender eohomegrownapps is a former GCI grand prize winner
20:36 Favour is a GSoc participant and GCI mentor
20:36 Bharath_Joshi I am here for Funding topic '=D
20:36 walterbender eohomegrownapps is also a GCI mentor
20:36 satellit Identifying as as a visitor
20:36 walterbender I don't think we can do much else re election until I find someone to run it.
20:36 Quozl are we finished with the election topic?  i'd like to insert the infrastructure topic next.
20:37 pikurasa Quozl: Many are GCI students
20:37 what needs to be said about the election?
20:37 I noticed that ibiam announced candidacy
20:37 walterbender I'll get on that after the election.
20:37 Quozl, please continue your topic
20:37 Quozl #topic infrastructure
20:37 MrBIOS Quozl: on the subject of vulnerable/decrepit infrastructure, I took it upon myself to re-set the jita VM when it went out to lunch, and I cloned the VM while it was still down, and  then brought up the clone with a different IP, and proceeded to upgrade the base operating system to  18.04.3 LTS (Bionic Beaver). I've done nothing with it since then, this was a few days ago,
20:37 but now  I/someone needs to see what doesn't work, if anything.
20:37 presumably plenty of things don't/won't work
20:38 walterbender I think mailman may be iffy too... I did not get ibiam's emails, for example.
20:38 Quozl meeting bot and several other services run on jita, which is ubuntu 12.04.  aslo and translations run on ubuntu 14.04.  denial of service vulnerabilities exist, which we can handle by monitoring.  there may be remove execution vulnerabilities eventually; what shall we do when we hit them?
20:38 meeting Quozl: Error: "bot" is not a valid command.
20:38 Quozl s/remove/remote
20:38 MrBIOS getting the meeting bot running elsewhere should be fairly trivial
20:39 Quozl walterbender: mailman is on sunjammer, which is 18.04.3
20:39 MrBIOS yes, all mail infrastructure is not hosted on the hardware we have at MIT
20:40 walterbender OK. Maybe a glitch in my email
20:40 Quozl by the way, the MIT infra is SFC owned, is legal transfer on the way?
20:40 walterbender: gmail has increased their thresholds recently, i've a set of other community groups affected.
20:40 MrBIOS Quozl yes,that will happen once the non profit status happens
20:40 samsongo_ <samsongo_!~samsongod@169.159.122.132> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:40 Quozl MrBIOS: thanks.
20:41 MrBIOS Jita also hosts/hosted our old Gitorious instance, which we should shut down properly
20:41 it's still running there, I see the services start and stop
20:41 https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Service/git
20:41 Quozl okay, so i've absolved myself of the responsibility to report; does anyone feel responsible enough to suggest what we do?  ;-)  we still use gitorious.
20:41 samsongo_ has quit IRC
20:41 MrBIOS what do we use it for, exactly?
20:42 Quozl source code for activities.
20:42 samsongo_ <samsongo_!~samsongod@169.159.122.132> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:42 Quozl (commit history for git bisect, for example.  several repositories on my desktop have remotes set up for gitorious).
20:42 samsongoddy has quit IRC
20:43 walterbender Quozl, any reason not to migrate those repos to github?
20:43 Quozl (last i saw, several activities only exist on gitorious).
20:44 walterbender: yes, they might not work, and the time to assess.
20:44 MrBIOS Quozl good to know, should we fix that?
20:45 Quozl it's yack shaving.  you want to shutdown gitorious, that's one of the things you should also do, or risk losing things.
20:45 samsongoddy <samsongoddy!~samsongod@169.159.80.139> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:45 Quozl i guess we can move on to the fundraising topic now.
20:45 #topic fundraising
20:46 this came from https://github.com/sugarlabs/m[…]cblocks/pull/1996
20:46 walterbender Favour and Bharath_Joshi do you want to explain your ideas
20:46 Bharath_Joshi So firstly why a sponsorship button?
20:46 Adding a sponsorship button might seem a minute addition, but it makes a lot of difference when it comes to the developers.I do agree that 6 out of 10 people might not even notice it being added and the 2 among rest 4 people wouldn't pay attention to it. My inner conscience believes that the rest 2 members would atleast think about it and may end
20:46 up sponsoring and that would boost the confidence of the developer to another extent.
20:47 MrBIOS button where, and for what, exactly?
20:47 Bharath_Joshi Setting up it is also not a hard task and would require no modification of code or anything of that sort..
20:47 MrBIOS in the app itself?
20:47 samsongo_ has quit IRC
20:47 Bharath_Joshi One second, can i send an image?
20:47 Favour Most open-source projects that I've seen so far seem to use a collection of Patreon, OpenCollective, and a manual process for their sponsorships. Having it integrated into GitHub makes a lot of sense.
20:48 The sponsorship button is on github
20:48 pikurasa Even for the people who do not become "sponsors" it serves as PR as it reminds people that SL is the org that develops the app.
20:48 Bharath_Joshi It would appear in the repository near the star, fork symbols in github
20:48 Is there a way to attach a picture in this chat?
20:49 Quozl Most open-source projects that do it also had donors first, for which they responded by investing in the features.  pikurasa: what donors have we had in last year?
20:49 MrBIOS Bharath_Joshi just paste a link to a URL of the photo
20:49 Quozl Bharath_Joshi: or send a URL to a project that does it.
20:49 MrBIOS in principle, I'm not opposed, but we also don't have any mechanisms for casual donations, so asking what we have gotten seems a bit absurd
20:49 it's a chicken and egg problem, if you don't make it easy, it's not likely to ever happen
20:49 Bharath_Joshi https://github.com/bharathjoshi/musicblocks
20:49 Favour Okay
20:49 Quozl MrBIOS: we publish a mechanism for casual donations.
20:49 walterbender We have had donations from Trip Advisor, Google, Nokia, a few private foundations, Slipstream...
20:50 satellit seen trisquel  donation list?
20:50 Favour https://github.com/oscommunityafrica/osf-website
20:50 Bharath_Joshi Favour we could mention Patreon, Opencollective accounts
20:50 Quozl MrBIOS: we have now this; https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/Donate
20:51 MrBIOS yep, and neither of those two are easy, or even close to it
20:51 Bharath_Joshi earlier the donation links were usually attached in the readme file and went unnoticed. bringing it on the top would help.
20:51 Quozl MrBIOS: yes, perhaps an artefact of SFC, and they may have improved things since, but we're leaving them soon.
20:51 pikurasa There are so many ways to do this, that we should think about this a bit more before deployment
20:51 otherwise I have nothing against the idea
20:52 MrBIOS pikurasa, agreed, but also agreed, it has to be prominent.
20:52 samsongo_ <samsongo_!~samsongod@169.159.91.72> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:52 pikurasa Like, "Once someone dontes, do they get a gift?" Because if I was a kid, I would want a gift
20:52 walterbender I wish it was at the project level and not the repo level
20:53 pikurasa walterbender: that would be nice
20:53 MrBIOS pikurasa I doubt we'd get donations from any/many kids. we have a bank account now, we could be accepting non-tax-deductible donations via PayPal at present, to the new organization.
20:53 pikurasa well, it could be in some interface that linked to all the repos
20:53 MrBIOS but obviously that has to be agreed upon
20:53 Bharath_Joshi walterbender the organisation sponsorship button i currently in beta version and may come in near future.
20:53 Quozl i've understood from the way patreon-based communities respond that the funding tends to steer the organisation.  will that happen?
20:53 samsong__ <samsong__!~samsongod@169.159.73.117> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:53 pikurasa MrBIOS: I dunno, kids seem to buy lots of stuff in their apps these days. Not impossible I think
20:54 MrBIOS impossible to say, really
20:54 pikurasa fair enough, I guess
20:54 walterbender Quozl, the Trip Advisor and Google funding has been somewhat targeted but toward ends we define
20:54 pikurasa I would rather they donate to SL than spend money in some weird app
20:54 samsongoddy has quit IRC
20:54 pikurasa (as it could ultimately benefit the community)
20:55 Bharath_Joshi I guess this would be useful and profitable as it has been in other sectors..for example game streamers in youtube
20:55 pikurasa ANy more to discuss on this topic?
20:55 walterbender I think we can distinguish between donations to the project as a whole and targeted grants... this proposal seems to be about the former
20:55 MrBIOS correct, we're talking small, individual donations here
20:55 pikurasa NPO's do not use the word "profitable", fyi
20:56 Quozl i've not seen how funding we _have_ received has been of clear benefit to the community.  we don't report on how we spend the moneys.
20:56 Bharath_Joshi @pi i'm sorry'=D
20:56 MrBIOS well, historically, we're really bad at spending the money
20:56 walterbender Quozl, largely we have not spent the money
20:56 Favour Okay I have this to drop here so we could know how this works https://github.blog/2019-05-23[…]e-to-open-source/
20:56 MrBIOS and that's a different issue
20:56 Favour, thanks
20:56 Quozl llaske: cue mention of travel here.  ;-)
20:56 samsongo_ has quit IRC
20:57 walterbender SFC made it very difficult for me to run workshops with the Trip Advisor money so I largely paid out of pocket
20:57 pikurasa Speaking of spending money, I have not seen proposals for FOSS con (correct me if I am mistaken)
20:57 MrBIOS pikurasa I haven't sent it, and at this point, I think I'll just eat it.
20:57 Favour I think  its FOSSDEM
20:57 walterbender We do occasionally fund translation work (Aymara) from the Trip Advisor grant
20:57 MrBIOS FOSDEM, yes
20:57 walterbender would love broader coverage for i18n
20:57 llaske Quozl: :-D
20:57 Quozl so, does the board wish to decide anything on changing our donor options to the newfangled taxed-by-an-intermediary arrangements?
20:57 pikurasa I/we also need to develop our own policies for reimbursements (which we can do at the 1023 workshop, if we have time)
20:58 Quozl or could i say commissioned fundraising agents?
20:58 walterbender Quozl, I think we need to do some homework re $ to newco before proceeding
20:58 can we task pikurasa with that?
20:58 MrBIOS agreed, but yes, we need to do that homework soonish, so we can get that ball rolling
20:58 walterbender but otherwise, I am in favor of what Favour and Bharath_Joshi have in minf
20:59 mind
20:59 MrBIOS same, in favor in principle as well
20:59 Quozl once we have one of the web fundraising agents engaged, they provide html we can inject.
20:59 walterbender Bharath_Joshi, can you report back re the org-level tools?
21:00 pikurasa my "task pikurasa", I am happy to take lead, but I need help
21:00 Quozl (for the record, before the meeting i restarted the meeting bot, but it was not necessary; i had used the wrong command).
21:00 pikurasa needs to go. My son is not going to take care of himself any longer.
21:00 MrBIOS I need to get moving as well, unfortunately
21:00 pikurasa Quozl: thanks for the note
21:00 Bharath_Joshi Yeah, the org-level sponsorship button is still in testing, would revert immediately if it comes out of the beta versioon
21:00 Quozl okay, i move to close the meeting.  all in favour?
21:01 walterbender +1
21:01 MrBIOS +1
21:01 Favour +1
21:01 Quozl samsong__: ?
21:01 pikurasa +1
21:01 Quozl llaske: ?
21:01 llaske +1
21:01 samsong__ s+1
21:01 Quozl carried.  bye all.
21:01 walterbender thanks everyone
21:01 Favour Thanks
21:01 MrBIOS Thanks, folks.
21:02 pikurasa has quit IRC
21:03 Bharath_Joshi Thank you=D
21:03 samsongoddy <samsongoddy!~samsongod@169.159.66.41> has joined #sugar-meeting
21:04 Bharath_Joshi has quit IRC
21:05 samsongoddy has quit IRC
21:06 MrBIOS has quit IRC
21:06 llaske has quit IRC
21:06 samsong__ has quit IRC
21:09 Favour has quit IRC
21:13 llaske <llaske!~lionel@2a01cb00074daf00011acddde45​44ab4.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr> has joined #sugar-meeting
21:17 Favour <Favour!~androirc@41.190.31.91> has joined #sugar-meeting
21:22 Favour has quit IRC
21:26 Quozl #endmeeting
21:27 meeting Meeting ended Wed Jan  1 21:26:59 2020 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
21:27 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-01T20:00:40.html
21:27 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]20-01-01T20:00:40

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