| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 20:00 |
meeting |
Meeting started Fri Jun 7 20:00:04 2019 UTC. The chair is Quozl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 20:00 |
|
Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting |
| 20:00 |
Quozl |
who have we here? |
| 20:00 |
pikurasa |
kemitchell: why are you here? |
| 20:00 |
MrBIOS |
pikurasa: he was invited :) |
| 20:00 |
pikurasa |
everyone kemitchell: is the lawyer that we are considering for the operating agreement |
| 20:01 |
kemitchell |
Alex invited me to join. I am the lawyer Devin and Alex have been in touch with about representing the project in its departure from SFC. |
| 20:01 |
walterbender |
hi |
| 20:01 |
kemitchell |
Hello. |
| 20:02 |
MrBIOS |
kemitchell: thank you for taking the time to join us, I figured it would be a good venue for asking a few questions. We have one remaining vote to be cast before I sign our engagement letter, and Claudia should be with us shortly. |
| 20:02 |
kemitchell |
I won't be leading conversation or otherwise disrupting the flow of the meeting. I'm in here in case questions come up. |
| 20:02 |
Quozl |
so far; we have myself, devin, walter, alex. we don't have lionel, samson, and claudia. |
| 20:03 |
pikurasa |
Ok, but when we have a vote (i.e. complete the vote) on the OA, I think kemitchell should leave |
| 20:03 |
|
thanks Quozl |
| 20:03 |
walterbender |
I had not heard that anyone was *not* coming |
| 20:04 |
MrBIOS |
walterbender: samson is coming, I just spoke to him |
| 20:04 |
kemitchell |
I'm glad to /leave whenever the board prefers. |
| 20:04 |
MrBIOS |
pikurasa: given that the logs of these meetings are public record, I don’t think that makes much sense :) |
| 20:04 |
walterbender |
:) |
| 20:04 |
llaske |
Hi, sorry |
| 20:05 |
MrBIOS |
hi, Lionel |
| 20:05 |
|
samsongoddy <samsongoddy!~samsongod 160.152.54.104> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 20:05 |
Quozl |
i've sent messages to samson, lionel, and claudia. i've a response from samson. as chair, i've no problem with kyle remaining, as the meeting is public. if any member of the board wants to make that decision in private, we won't make it now at this meeting, but by e-mail. |
| 20:06 |
samsongoddy |
Hello, sorry for coming late |
| 20:06 |
|
Lost track of time |
| 20:06 |
pikurasa |
hi samsongoddy |
| 20:06 |
kemitchell |
Quozl: Thanks for mentioning you hold chair. To be clear: I'm here just in case the group finds it useful to have me. Happy to /join and /leave whenever. Feel free to /msg me |
| 20:07 |
|
Claudia <Claudia!~webchatrev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 20:07 |
Quozl |
so everyone is here bar claudia. i'll now take proposals for agenda, as we had no prior agenda. our standing agenda is on the wiki page. |
| 20:07 |
|
Claudia: welcome. |
| 20:07 |
Claudia |
hello |
| 20:07 |
pikurasa |
Claudia: ih |
| 20:07 |
Claudia |
thanks |
| 20:07 |
pikurasa |
*hi |
| 20:07 |
walterbender |
nothing pressing on my end... just lots of nice press on MB in Japan :) |
| 20:08 |
|
links added in the News page of the wiki |
| 20:08 |
pikurasa |
https://edtechzine.jp/article/detail/1802 |
| 20:08 |
samsongoddy |
awesome |
| 20:08 |
pikurasa |
for example |
| 20:08 |
Quozl |
kemitchell: welcome as visitor. you may speak at any time pertinent to the agenda item at hand. |
| 20:08 |
kemitchell |
Quozl: Noted. Thank you. |
| 20:09 |
|
MrBIOS2 <MrBIOS2!~default2601:645:100:d390:b9cc:1e75:5fa7:a625> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 20:09 |
Claudia |
congrats, pikurasa + walterbender |
| 20:09 |
MrBIOS2 |
hello folks, I've switched machines to a more reliable connection :) |
| 20:09 |
Quozl |
any proposals to discuss something? |
| 20:10 |
pikurasa |
Quozl: well we should finish discussing and voting the OA |
| 20:10 |
Quozl |
okay, i'll move onto the standing agenda. pikurasa; are you wanting to discuss that in private? |
| 20:10 |
Claudia |
I can talk about my recent visit to Paraguay |
| 20:10 |
pikurasa |
It is okay Quozl ...whatever |
| 20:11 |
Quozl |
#topic pending motions from e-mail, an agreement proposal |
| 20:11 |
|
proceed, pikurasa. |
| 20:11 |
pikurasa |
Okay, so we have a few votes in for the OA. What is the current number? |
| 20:11 |
|
4, it seems |
| 20:12 |
Claudia |
walterbender: I have a book from Pacita |
| 20:12 |
walterbender |
whom are we missing? |
| 20:12 |
Quozl |
four in favour. one question. one no answer. |
| 20:12 |
walterbender |
that adds up to six |
| 20:12 |
pikurasa |
Claudia: is question. Who is no answer? |
| 20:13 |
Claudia |
+ 1 |
| 20:13 |
|
I chat with Alex |
| 20:14 |
pikurasa |
Is James the one with no answer? |
| 20:14 |
|
Or am I just not seeing it on the email chain? |
| 20:14 |
Quozl |
Claudia: thanks, i acknowledge +1, that makes five in favour. my vote is missing. i vote against. the motion is carried. |
| 20:14 |
MrBIOS2 |
Claudia, if you could respond to the e-mail thread with +1, I'd like to make sure we have it all on the record in one place. |
| 20:15 |
|
nitpicky I know, but :) |
| 20:15 |
Claudia |
MrBIOS2: I did |
| 20:15 |
MrBIOS2 |
nevermind, I just saw it :D |
| 20:15 |
Quozl |
#agreed we execute an agreement to engage with Kyle Mitchel, attorney, for the purposes of setting up a 501(c)3 non-profit for Sugar Labs. |
| 20:16 |
MrBIOS2 |
kemitchell, I've sent you the requested names and e-mail addresses via e-mail, as previously requested. |
| 20:16 |
|
Claudia what's new/going on in Paraguay? |
| 20:16 |
Quozl |
thanks for working through this everyone. i shall support the work; solidarity. |
| 20:16 |
pikurasa |
The OA is for creating a roadmap to creating NPO, to be specific |
| 20:16 |
kemitchell |
MrBIOS2: Thank you. I see the group agreed without questions. Should I stick around here in the channel, or be on my way? |
| 20:16 |
pikurasa |
not for the formation itself |
| 20:17 |
walterbender |
kemitchell, is there anything you need from us at this stage? |
| 20:17 |
pikurasa |
kemitchell: When do you plan to have this done by? |
| 20:17 |
MrBIOS2 |
walterbender, just eSignatures. |
| 20:17 |
|
up to you, does anyone here have any general questions for Kyle while he's here? They can always be sent to me if there's anything you think of later. |
| 20:17 |
walterbender |
just want to say, thanks and let's get this done :P |
| 20:17 |
kemitchell |
walterbender: Amen. |
| 20:18 |
pikurasa |
SFC says that they need to sign a document to say that "although they are making the payments, SFC is not the client" |
| 20:18 |
Quozl |
#topic insert; what to publish about the motion |
| 20:18 |
|
do i include the agreement? |
| 20:18 |
MrBIOS2 |
One thing I want to mention is that I intend to hold off on submitting expenses incurred during my SCaLE and PyCon conference visits _after_ we are fully separated from SFC, whenever that is, unless anyone here has a problem with that. |
| 20:18 |
kemitchell |
pikurasa: I mentioned to Alex that I think the engagement letter covers it. But if they come back after we've signed, I can clarify for them. |
| 20:19 |
MrBIOS2 |
I wish to minimize back-and-forth with SFC as much as possible. |
| 20:19 |
Quozl |
only pikurasa should be dealing with the sfc, as our representative. he needs to be able to back and forth as much as we need. |
| 20:19 |
Claudia |
MrBIOS2: They are working with funding from the Gov on Caacupe, and also in private schools in Asunción... they have Sugar on different machines, but they will soon need to think about the Activities that they want going forward and how they work with SLabs |
| 20:20 |
pikurasa |
kemitchell: they asked for it, I think it is simple, and I want to make sure that you get paid as fast as you need to |
| 20:20 |
kemitchell |
pikurasa: FWIW, I am not particularly worried about when I get paid. I am more worried about getting an engagement letter in place, so we can start the work. |
| 20:21 |
samsongoddy |
Great news Claudia |
| 20:21 |
pikurasa |
hmmm... How do I put this: I highly recommend it |
| 20:21 |
samsongoddy |
I saw pictures from twitter |
| 20:21 |
Claudia |
I suggested a open conversation with Slabs will be great |
| 20:21 |
MrBIOS2 |
Claudia that's great, are there any contacts there who might be interested in sharing some more about the specifics with us, via e-mail or on the mailing lists? |
| 20:21 |
Quozl |
MrBIOS2: i don't think it is a problem to submit your expenses now, and there's the time limits in the sfc travel policy to worry about. i'd rather you didn't lose the opportunity; we're somewhat responsible to pay you as you did something on behalf of sugar labs. |
| 20:22 |
samsongoddy |
I agree with Quozl |
| 20:22 |
|
Because of the 90 days rule |
| 20:23 |
MrBIOS2 |
the 90 day rule no longer applies once we are not SFC-affiliated |
| 20:23 |
Quozl |
i ask again; do i make the agreement with kyle available to our members (i.e. on our wiki in public). |
| 20:23 |
Claudia |
Patricia Escauriza.. she comes to the education meeting sometimes and Mary Gomez |
| 20:23 |
pikurasa |
kemitchell: I think we are done with the part of the conversation that pertains to you. |
| 20:24 |
kemitchell |
pikurasa: Thank you. I'm available by anyone if there are any further needs. |
| 20:24 |
|
kemitchell has left #sugar-meeting |
| 20:24 |
Quozl |
the 90 day rule originates from procedures for validation of the claim by referencing current pricing. yes, we might not have the same rule, but if we had no limit we might be slack. |
| 20:24 |
MrBIOS2 |
Quozl I don't see why not, personally. |
| 20:25 |
|
I also did not adhere to that policy when I booked the SCaLe lodging, and I drove there instead of flew, to be able to bring stuff and save money. The primary cost was lodging |
| 20:25 |
|
and today is the end of the 90 day window |
| 20:25 |
Quozl |
well, your decision will be easier. ;-) |
| 20:26 |
|
#topic insert; remaining business with sfc |
| 20:26 |
MrBIOS2 |
it will also be a test of how we actually handle such things once we are independent. |
| 20:26 |
Quozl |
pikurasa: what open tracking items do we have with sfc? any progress? that book? |
| 20:27 |
walterbender |
the advice re sugarizer licenses |
| 20:27 |
Claudia |
I am sure the 501(c)3 status doesn't need to be granted in order for us to pay the expenses... it could take months |
| 20:27 |
MrBIOS2 |
Claudia exactly, I am sure it does not need to be either. |
| 20:27 |
pikurasa |
I believe that Samson is waiting about PyCon |
| 20:27 |
MrBIOS2 |
months is fine. |
| 20:28 |
pikurasa |
I reached out 5/19 and was asked to wait |
| 20:28 |
MrBIOS2 |
pikurasa was any reason given? |
| 20:28 |
pikurasa |
However, since the original 30 days has passed, it seems to be just time to ask again |
| 20:28 |
Claudia |
MrBIOS2: it took 13 for a non-profit I helped create in MA |
| 20:28 |
llaske |
walterbender: I will have news about that very shortly, we've worked with a counsel on that |
| 20:28 |
pikurasa |
(it was within 30 days) |
| 20:29 |
Quozl |
#topic report froom project representative |
| 20:29 |
pikurasa |
The ticket was made 5/6. I just sent another message. |
| 20:29 |
Quozl |
right, we've done that one, |
| 20:29 |
MrBIOS2 |
makes sense. |
| 20:30 |
Quozl |
#topic report from membership and elections committee |
| 20:30 |
|
a report was made just before last meeting but we didn't receive it. they are operating fine. |
| 20:30 |
MrBIOS2 |
do we have any way of sending "official" communications to our members, other than the IAEP and other mailing lists? |
| 20:30 |
|
MrBIOS has quit IRC |
| 20:30 |
Quozl |
#topic report from administrators of google summer of code (gsoc) |
| 20:31 |
walterbender |
So far so good. One student has dropped out due to visa issues |
| 20:31 |
Quozl |
MrBIOS2: we have a list of e-mail addresses, so we could potentially use that. the membership and elections committee holds the list, but as board member you are entitled to it. |
| 20:31 |
MrBIOS2 |
is that list not the one that's on the wiki? |
| 20:31 |
llaske |
walterbender: on which project? |
| 20:31 |
Quozl |
MrBIOS2: there's no list on the wiki of e-mail addresses, if things went well. |
| 20:31 |
walterbender |
llaske, MB unit tests |
| 20:32 |
|
MrBIOS2 has quit IRC |
| 20:32 |
walterbender |
they seem to be blogging and keeping the devel list updated for the most part |
| 20:32 |
llaske |
Sorry to hear |
| 20:32 |
Quozl |
walterbender: i did not hear the drop-out was completed. must have missed it. github to be updated, i think. |
| 20:32 |
walterbender |
some very good work from what I have seen |
| 20:32 |
|
MrBIOS2 <MrBIOS2!~default2601:645:100:d390:b9cc:1e75:5fa7:a625> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 20:32 |
llaske |
Very good start on Sugarizer projects |
| 20:33 |
walterbender |
Quozl, I don't know if it is "official" but it is done. |
| 20:33 |
Quozl |
my two students are doing stuff, but my gut feel is that they are doing it as a side hustle late at night, and we aren't getting the seven or eight hours a day that google had specified. |
| 20:33 |
walterbender |
Quozl, you should call them out on it |
| 20:33 |
MrBIOS2 |
Quozl, as I privately noted to you, I share this concern with at least one of them |
| 20:33 |
Quozl |
i should, i've been asking for daily reports to encourage them to give me useful input that i can measure. |
| 20:34 |
llaske |
Quozl, may be you could give them more ambitious objectives from one week to another |
| 20:34 |
MrBIOS2 |
I am also in favor of asking for an explanation, and simply asking bluntly if they really are going to be able to dedicate the time necessary to this. |
| 20:36 |
pikurasa |
I recommend to call them out on it early |
| 20:36 |
Quozl |
for one of them, they are lost in a maze of twisty little passages; telepathy api. i'd prefer to wait for them to get through that maze before calling them on it. but i'm keeping it in mind. |
| 20:36 |
MrBIOS2 |
I agree that the learning curve there is steep. |
| 20:36 |
Quozl |
for the other, they are concentrating on quality rather than quantity of activities maintained. he's busy with hyperlink support in sugar terminal. ;-) |
| 20:37 |
pikurasa |
Students who are still learning should be reporting what they are learning, preferably daily |
| 20:37 |
MrBIOS2 |
I'd also like to generally ask all SLOBs if there is anything specific you feel has been neglected, and should be an initial focus of Sugar Labs V2, if anything. Personally, I feel we need to do a much better job with outreach, and understanding how our deployed user base actually uses Sugar. |
| 20:37 |
Quozl |
i'm asking for and receiving daily reports, with occasional missed reports. |
| 20:38 |
|
MrBIOS2: remote data collection of metrics? |
| 20:38 |
Claudia |
MrBIOS2: we can beging with Paraguay |
| 20:39 |
MrBIOS2 |
Quozl, no, I don't think that's necessary, just understanding who is using what, for what ages, which activities, etc. |
| 20:39 |
|
Claudia agreed, it's an obvious first choice. What is the scale of Sugar usage there? |
| 20:40 |
Quozl |
#topic next |
| 20:40 |
|
what shall we agree to talk about next? |
| 20:40 |
MrBIOS2 |
my question above? |
| 20:40 |
walterbender |
Turtle Art Day in Uruguay |
| 20:40 |
MrBIOS2 |
or that |
| 20:40 |
Claudia |
MrBIOS2: 12K in Caacupe and not sure in the city (with private schools) |
| 20:40 |
Quozl |
#topic turlte art day in uruguay |
| 20:41 |
|
s/turlte/turtle |
| 20:41 |
walterbender |
Just a heads up that the MEC is doing a TA Day in October |
| 20:41 |
|
their initiative |
| 20:41 |
Quozl |
what's the MEC? |
| 20:41 |
walterbender |
Ministry of Ed |
| 20:41 |
Claudia |
Minister of Education |
| 20:41 |
walterbender |
they'd like some SL participation |
| 20:42 |
Quozl |
what participation can be get from them? |
| 20:42 |
walterbender |
but they would need to rely on us for funding (Trip Advisor) |
| 20:42 |
|
If I can carve out the time, I'd be willing to go. |
| 20:42 |
|
But that is a big if |
| 20:42 |
|
Maybe Artemis Papert? |
| 20:43 |
Quozl |
latest TA after the GTK 3 port is very difficult to use with touchscreen in classroom, i downgrade to GTK 2, have you heard of that? |
| 20:43 |
Claudia |
I think she will be willing |
| 20:44 |
|
Quozl: does OLPC have data of countries still using XOs/Sugar? |
| 20:45 |
Quozl |
Claudia: yes, but very limited, as we have lost the personal contacts as our people have left, and the countries have not initiated a contact on the matter. at the moment olpc is myself, maria, luisa, jimmy, and desire. jimmy and desire are in rwanda. maria and luisa in miami. i'm in australia. |
| 20:46 |
MrBIOS2 |
perhaps it would make sense for Sugar Labs to attempt to re-establish those contacts, where possible? |
| 20:46 |
samsongoddy |
Claudia, I spoke with Henry from one of the OLPC/SEED school, I heard they still have about 2k laptops |
| 20:46 |
llaske |
But Tony talked about thousands of XO in Rwanda |
| 20:46 |
walterbender |
It would be nice at least to know what is going on in Nicaragua |
| 20:46 |
samsongoddy |
400,000 in Rwanda |
| 20:47 |
Claudia |
thank for the update.. Quozl. |
| 20:47 |
|
and yes, what is Nicaragua doing? |
| 20:47 |
|
I heard Paraguay has kept coming |
| 20:47 |
|
to visit them |
| 20:47 |
|
Felix is still there |
| 20:48 |
Quozl |
nobody from the countries seems to be contributing source code or bug reports. i suspect they are either maintaining activities themselves, or not upgrading from known working activities. |
| 20:49 |
|
sugar labs did release buggy activities for a while, and that would have burned the relationship. |
| 20:49 |
Claudia |
Paraguay has not tech tean |
| 20:49 |
|
*team, so they are not updating |
| 20:50 |
Quozl |
not updating is the usual method a non-tech team will deploy. strong social norms and classroom management against downloading new activities. |
| 20:50 |
Claudia |
samsongoddy: good... are those machines still working? |
| 20:50 |
samsongoddy |
Yes, according to Henry |
| 20:50 |
|
I am planning to visit them |
| 20:51 |
Quozl |
MrBIOS2: note that our work in gsoc 2019 on python 3 porting is useless to the deployed XO population. i'm using a "fedora18" branch in each repository to maintain the old code. |
| 20:52 |
walterbender |
back to MrBIOS2 question about what we should be doing differently in the reboot... I would say some professional marketing. |
| 20:52 |
MrBIOS2 |
Quozl acknowledged. |
| 20:52 |
|
in theory there's nothing to prevent Python3 from running on F18, however. |
| 20:52 |
llaske |
Ooch :-( |
| 20:53 |
walterbender |
Every time I talk about Sugar (most recently at a conference in NYC on Tuesday) people are blown away, but they don't know anything about it. |
| 20:53 |
MrBIOS2 |
although that's certainly not the desired route forward :) |
| 20:53 |
Quozl |
MrBIOS2: all the dependencies would be needed as well, but technically you are correct. i'd budget ten engineers for six months to bring the XO population up to current software versions. |
| 20:54 |
|
** time, ladies and gentlemen. we have five minutes left, any other topics? |
| 20:55 |
MrBIOS2 |
nobody has any concerns about things which have been/become neglected over the years? I kinda doubt that |
| 20:55 |
|
speak up! |
| 20:55 |
samsongoddy |
walterbender, I just had a meeting earlier with the mind Africa folks, they are planning another TA this year |
| 20:55 |
walterbender |
nice |
| 20:56 |
samsongoddy |
I am going to see that they get all the support they need this time. I will keep the community updated if anything comes up |
| 20:56 |
walterbender |
MrBIOS2, I think marketing is our biggest weakness |
| 20:56 |
|
across all fronts |
| 20:56 |
|
users, developers, etc. |
| 20:56 |
samsongoddy |
MrBIOS2, I better structured community engagement too |
| 20:57 |
Quozl |
i think our software quality is an issue that marketing will reveal in depth. |
| 20:57 |
Claudia |
Strategic path forward will be great |
| 20:57 |
MrBIOS2 |
I agree with Quozl on that front, we need to address software quality, and that includes the activities |
| 20:57 |
walterbender |
Quozl, chicken and egg to some degree |
| 20:58 |
|
lots of regressions for sure |
| 20:58 |
Quozl |
walterbender: simultaneous effort required. |
| 20:58 |
walterbender |
+1 |
| 20:58 |
|
it is just hard to get motivated if you don't ever get user feedback |
| 20:58 |
Quozl |
but i'm used to hearing "We all have to do better" then silence. ;-) |
| 20:58 |
MrBIOS2 |
I also personally think we need to re-visit re-booting ASLO, I would even go so far as to propose that we hire someone to take ASLO V3 code, evaluate it, and assuming it's deemed suitable, extend it to feature parity with ASLO V1. The current activities server/service is decrepit and unmaintained. |
| 20:58 |
walterbender |
I tend to focus where I see user activity |
| 20:58 |
MrBIOS2 |
and a horrible user experience, |
| 20:58 |
Claudia |
yes. 1. understand who is using to make sure we support those well, 2. establish goals for future so we can fundraise... we can do it all with the people and resources |
| 20:59 |
MrBIOS2 |
and we _do_have user activity on the activities server, along with data to back up that claim |
| 20:59 |
Quozl |
it's just php, it should be easy to update ASLO V1. a few CSS tweaks. |
| 20:59 |
MrBIOS2 |
it's not just a matter of code, it's a usability disaster, things are mis-categorized, etc etc |
| 20:59 |
Quozl |
neither aslo v2 nor aslo v3 have been prepared with the installed base in mind. they are a bigger job than php tweaks and recategorisation. |
| 21:00 |
|
and using categorisation from the activities themselves is not useful, as the activities don't have them and would need maintenance anyway to add them. ;-) |
| 21:00 |
MrBIOS2 |
I am aware of the scope. |
| 21:01 |
Quozl |
anyway, our time is up. i move to close the meeting, all in favour? |
| 21:01 |
walterbender |
Quozl, but we had developers enthusiastic about v2 and v3 and not about v1... which IMHO is critical |
| 21:01 |
|
I need to go too... +1 |
| 21:01 |
MrBIOS2 |
+1 |
| 21:01 |
Claudia |
i need to go to a dif meeting |
| 21:01 |
llaske |
+1 |
| 21:01 |
Quozl |
samsongoddy: ? |
| 21:01 |
MrBIOS2 |
thanks, Claudia, llaske |
| 21:01 |
samsongoddy |
I need to go to bed |
| 21:01 |
|
+1 |
| 21:01 |
Quozl |
pikurasa: ? |
| 21:01 |
Claudia |
bye everyone |
| 21:01 |
llaske |
bye |
| 21:01 |
pikurasa |
+1 |
| 21:01 |
|
bye |
| 21:02 |
Quozl |
#endmeeting |
| 21:02 |
walterbender |
thanks everyone |
| 21:02 |
meeting |
Meeting ended Fri Jun 7 21:02:01 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 21:02 |
|
Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-07T20:00:04.html |
| 21:02 |
|
Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]19-06-07T20:00:04 |