Time |
Nick |
Message |
18:58 |
meeting |
Meeting started Fri Mar 1 18:58:42 2019 UTC. The chair is Quozl_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
18:58 |
|
Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting |
18:58 |
Quozl_ |
#topic waiting for quorum |
18:59 |
samsongoddy |
Hello |
18:59 |
Quozl_ |
our oversight board mission is to "ensure that the Sugar Labs community has clarity of purpose and the means to collaborate in achieving its goals." |
18:59 |
|
perrie <perrie!~perrie 129.56.60.27> has joined #sugar-meeting |
18:59 |
Quozl_ |
samsongoddy: hello. |
19:00 |
walterbender |
hi |
19:00 |
samsongoddy |
Happy new month |
19:00 |
walterbender |
last night between midnight and midnight was Seymour Papert's birthday |
19:00 |
|
He would have been 91 |
19:01 |
samsongoddy |
yeah I saw it everywhere on twitter |
19:01 |
Quozl_ |
oversight board members are Walter Bender (present), Lionel Laské, Devin Ulibarri, James Cameron (chair, present), Samson Goddy (present), Alex Perez, and Claudia Urrea. |
19:01 |
walterbender |
He was born on 29 Feb. :P |
19:01 |
Quozl_ |
walterbender: hello. |
19:02 |
|
i'm in a motel room four hours drive from home, so i don't have all my notes with me. dawn is half an hour away. i just finished speaking with karen sandler. |
19:03 |
walterbender |
I am in Toronto, behind a firewall and about to head to the airport |
19:03 |
|
tries to contact pikarusa |
19:05 |
Quozl_ |
ours and another project's travel policy exemption request were considered by the conservancy board, but they decided not to grant either, because of the increased work and the number of exemptions they had already granted to all projects. |
19:06 |
|
the other project's exemption was due to illness. our exemption was due to our own failure to communicate. |
19:06 |
walterbender |
"What we have here is a failure to communicate" |
19:07 |
|
pikurasa <pikurasa!~devin fsf/member/pikurasa> has joined #sugar-meeting |
19:07 |
walterbender |
Did you ever see "Cool Hand Luke"? |
19:07 |
pikurasa |
Hi! |
19:07 |
walterbender |
hi Devin |
19:07 |
|
texted Claudia too |
19:08 |
|
Devin: can you please translate "Take a tour" when you have a chance? |
19:08 |
pikurasa |
walterbender: ok |
19:08 |
walterbender |
thx |
19:08 |
|
devin, I will be at MIT on Wednesday. I could bring USB sticks with me. |
19:09 |
pikurasa |
kai is in attendance, too. |
19:09 |
|
Let's plan for Wednesday. I can meet anytime before 1 or after 5pm |
19:09 |
Quozl_ |
pikurasa: welcome. |
19:09 |
|
#topic agend |
19:09 |
|
#topic agenda |
19:10 |
pikurasa |
Thank you Quozl_ ... sorry to be late |
19:10 |
Quozl_ |
we have quorum, is there anything we need to talk about? i'd like to get ibiam's travel request approved at least. |
19:11 |
|
MrBIOS <MrBIOS!~aperez c-67-170-219-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net> has joined #sugar-meeting |
19:11 |
walterbender |
Maybe a quick discussion/update re GSoC? |
19:11 |
MrBIOS |
hey folks, sorry, other meeting ran long |
19:11 |
Quozl_ |
i've sent Skype and WhatsApp messages to Alex and Lionel. |
19:11 |
|
MrBIOS: welcome, we are in quorum, we have walter, devin, samson, myself, and you. we are discussing agenda. |
19:12 |
walterbender |
pikurasa: I will be giving a talk at 6PM |
19:12 |
MrBIOS |
apologies for my tardiness. |
19:12 |
Quozl_ |
walterbender: thanks, so agenda so far is ibiam's travel, update re gsoc. i'll add a behaviour issue that is sucking time if there is time. |
19:12 |
|
lionel will be with us shortly. |
19:13 |
|
llaske <llaske!~llaske v9e93-h01-176-145-89-188.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr> has joined #sugar-meeting |
19:13 |
llaske |
hi all |
19:13 |
Quozl_ |
llaske: welcome. all but claudia are here. agenda so far is ibiam's travel, update re gsoc, and a minor behaviour problem. |
19:13 |
|
llaske: anything for the agenda before i begin? |
19:14 |
|
s/for/to add to |
19:14 |
llaske |
nope |
19:14 |
Quozl_ |
thanks. |
19:14 |
MrBIOS |
I would also like to discuss our presence at SCaLE |
19:14 |
|
briefly |
19:14 |
Quozl_ |
#topic travel to pycon 2019 for ibiam |
19:14 |
|
MrBIOS: okay. |
19:14 |
|
can i have ya or nay votes from devin and alex on the motion posted to mailing list past two days about ibiam's travel advance? |
19:15 |
|
callaurrea <callaurrea!1228548f gateway/web/freenode/ip.18.40.84.143> has joined #sugar-meeting |
19:15 |
walterbender |
+1 from me as per my email |
19:15 |
callaurrea |
Hi |
19:15 |
MrBIOS |
I am in favor. , however I do believe he needs to document the benefit of his presence, which I have not seen explained, despite me asking him directly to do this |
19:16 |
Quozl_ |
callaurrea: hello. we have begun. topic is travel to pycon 2019 for ibiam. can i have yes or no votes on this motion please from you? |
19:16 |
walterbender |
MrBIOS: +1... I have also discussed that with him |
19:16 |
Quozl_ |
MrBIOS: thanks. i agree. i'll count that as a yes. |
19:16 |
pikurasa |
has voted via mail. +1 |
19:16 |
Quozl_ |
we could give him ideas too. |
19:16 |
callaurrea |
I am running a workshop, so I just got a break now... but I can't really stay |
19:16 |
Quozl_ |
okay, thanks, the motion passes. moving on. |
19:17 |
callaurrea |
I will here in the background |
19:17 |
Quozl_ |
#topic update gsoc |
19:17 |
|
callaurrea: okay. |
19:17 |
walterbender |
In brief, we have been accepted. |
19:17 |
llaske |
great |
19:17 |
callaurrea |
great |
19:17 |
walterbender |
We have lots of solid proposal ideas in GH: See https://github.com/sugarlabs/GSoC |
19:18 |
Quozl_ |
we got late formal notification from conservancy agreeing to us doing gsoc. about 12 hours ago. delay was theirs. |
19:18 |
llaske |
thanks to Quozl for PR reviews on it |
19:18 |
walterbender |
I would like to hold off inviting mentors until he get some idea of what sort of applications we are getting |
19:19 |
Quozl_ |
walterbender: good idea. that will also prevent the mentor hell of "is my application meeting your personal requirements" that we've been getting already. |
19:19 |
walterbender |
@pikarusa -- there is a Northeastern student who is interested in performance on MB |
19:19 |
Quozl_ |
s/prevent/reduce |
19:19 |
llaske |
May be we could designate a main mentor on each idea, it will help to take decision |
19:20 |
pikurasa |
walterbender: great, I wonder if that has to do with my meeting the NU prof a few weeks ago... |
19:20 |
walterbender |
FWIW, we can still add more project ideas |
19:20 |
|
and we should all try to encourage strong candidates to apply |
19:20 |
|
pikurasa: maybe... |
19:20 |
samsongoddy |
I am doing some outreach in Nigeria |
19:20 |
|
So maybe we will get some folks |
19:20 |
walterbender |
I will advertise at the Open Edx talk too |
19:21 |
Quozl_ |
#agreed Motion 2019-08: to pay a travel advance of $USD 1600 to Ibiam Chihurumnaya to attend Pycon 2019 in Cleveland, with pauses in New York accommodated by member Dave Crossland. |
19:21 |
callaurrea |
+1, walterbender |
19:21 |
Quozl_ |
(for the records) |
19:22 |
MrBIOS |
what is the travel visa situation for Nigerians inbound to US? |
19:22 |
|
I guess that can be answered later :) |
19:22 |
|
what next? |
19:23 |
Quozl_ |
i ask that any revision to project ideas negotiated between mentors and students actually get pushed into the repository as well. even after the start of gsoc. |
19:23 |
|
MrBIOS: yours. |
19:23 |
MrBIOS |
Roger. When does GSoC formally start, and will it be possible for board members to have access to the GSoC program pages, or is that verboten? |
19:23 |
Quozl_ |
#agenda our presence at scale |
19:24 |
|
MrBIOS: i think it would be best for you to be registered as a mentor but without expectation of mentoring; we don't seem to have any other process possible. |
19:24 |
walterbender |
mrbios MrBIOS I will send you a US of the GCI data :P |
19:25 |
Quozl_ |
MrBIOS: you would need to agree to google's t&c on it though. it is always a bit non-transparent in this way, and we don't seem to have a better solution. |
19:25 |
|
ibiam <ibiam!~myirc 197.210.54.254> has joined #sugar-meeting |
19:25 |
ibiam |
Hi everyone |
19:25 |
Quozl_ |
ibiam: welcome, as visitor. perrie: welcome too. |
19:25 |
walterbender |
Quozl_: yes... I don't think there is any other way |
19:25 |
ibiam |
Thank you Quozl_ |
19:26 |
Quozl_ |
MrBIOS: willing to talk us through scale now? |
19:26 |
MrBIOS |
okay. SCaLE officially begins next Thursday, the seventh. I will be attending through Sunday, arriving in the evening on Thursday. Since we have a booth in the exhibit hall, gratis, I would like recommendations from other SLOBs with regards to anything they would like to be presented to the general public/attendees. The discounted floor pass is only $35, so the barrier to attend/enter this show is low |
19:27 |
|
My wife, who teaches first grade here, and has taught second and third grade as well, will be accompanying me, and helping to man the booth. We will have XO’s on display, as well as a low end $250 laptop running Sugar, and an android Tablet running Sugarizer, for demonstration purposes, which anyone will be able to interact with if they so desire. |
19:28 |
walterbender |
RPi? |
19:28 |
MrBIOS |
walterbender: yes, that too :) |
19:28 |
Quozl_ |
for general public, i think the key messages are "put this usb drive into your computer and boot it, and you have software for learning by elementary children", and you can go intro constructivist, history, one laptop per child, as appropriate. |
19:28 |
MrBIOS |
yes, exactly. |
19:28 |
Quozl_ |
and they may ask if it can run without usb drive, and yes, you can. |
19:29 |
|
and parents are very worried about data collected on their children, and you can tell them we don't have the time or the software that does that. |
19:29 |
MrBIOS |
I personally view this trip as an outreach effort, not any sort of effort to attract development contributors, however there may also be the prospect of that. It really boils down to who ends up coming to engage us at the booth. |
19:29 |
Quozl_ |
and ask them if they have any budding programmers who might want to help us out with making children's software even better. |
19:30 |
MrBIOS |
yes, there are also some very young attendees to this show, pre-teen and teenage kids, some of whom have literally attended their whole lives. |
19:30 |
walterbender |
MrBIOS: maybe show Turtle Blocks --> Python --> Pippy --> Sugar activity |
19:30 |
Quozl_ |
and we don't charge for the software, it can be inspected, and while we have an app store it's not very good at the moment, the fedora soas has much of what is needed already. |
19:31 |
pikurasa |
My son, Kai, has been having fun with Turtle Blocks on his XO laptop. |
19:31 |
|
...or maybe it's just me having fun. |
19:31 |
|
:) |
19:31 |
walterbender |
pikurasa: he should love the Physics activity |
19:31 |
pikurasa |
Yeah, we did that a bit, too. |
19:32 |
|
And I noticed that TB integrates with the physics activity, which is nice. |
19:32 |
walterbender |
yes |
19:32 |
|
there is a plugin for creating high-precision projects for Physics |
19:32 |
pikurasa |
imagines a future where MB integrates more with the other "suites" (sweets) of apps |
19:32 |
Quozl_ |
MrBIOS: got enough? any other issues re scale? |
19:33 |
MrBIOS |
not that I can think of, but I ask that if anyone has any ideas or suggestions, to contact me or Caryl via e-mail. |
19:33 |
Quozl_ |
MrBIOS: okay, please keep us updated via the mailing lists. |
19:34 |
MrBIOS |
will do. |
19:34 |
Quozl_ |
#topic introductory tasks |
19:34 |
|
so i've been careful to create issues for introductory tasks that i don't have the time to do myself, and i specify them carefully. |
19:35 |
|
then tony comes along and undermines them. i'm not getting much support from any other developers, and i need support to argue against tony's put-downs. |
19:35 |
|
comments? |
19:35 |
MrBIOS |
can you cite the particular instance of this for those of us who are not aware? |
19:35 |
|
ML archive URL? |
19:35 |
pikurasa |
yes, please |
19:35 |
|
I need some context, too |
19:36 |
Quozl_ |
most recent is bichos activity, issue. i'll go find, standby. |
19:36 |
walterbender |
Quozl_: sorry... I have not read that thread. I will try to follow up this weekend |
19:36 |
Quozl_ |
https://github.com/sugarlabs/b[…]activity/issues/9 |
19:36 |
|
it's just a repository merge, of commit history, easily done with a rebase and cherry-pick. problem was caused by tony anyway. |
19:37 |
|
(he had uploaded a new repository instead of cloning the author's repository). |
19:38 |
|
but it is a continuing problem. the only things tony wants to say are "don't do that, do something else". he doesn't push commits. he doesn't make pull requests. |
19:38 |
pikurasa |
Why upload a new repository? |
19:38 |
walterbender |
a bit of background: we had a major disagreement in the past when he uploaded a bunch of repos w/o the commit histories |
19:38 |
MrBIOS |
basically because he doesn’t understand how Git works? |
19:38 |
Quozl_ |
pikurasa: he seems to think git is for holding release versions of software. |
19:38 |
|
MrBIOS: yes. |
19:38 |
|
MrBIOS: or rather he doesn't understand how the rest of us use git. |
19:38 |
walterbender |
I had a GCI task to hunt down the original repos |
19:38 |
pikurasa |
That would make it difficult to see the project history... |
19:38 |
walterbender |
but no one took the task :( |
19:39 |
Quozl_ |
pikurasa: yes, impossible. |
19:39 |
walterbender |
Flavio I think would be willing to help |
19:39 |
Quozl_ |
and hunting them down is as easy as searching for the bundle_id string across github. very fast. |
19:39 |
MrBIOS |
walterbender: we should keep track of those items, they would be good for non-GSoC contributors to delve into |
19:40 |
Quozl_ |
so, anyway, i feel i need others to step up and take on the arguments in favour of git workflow. it can get hostile, as you can see. |
19:40 |
MrBIOS |
it’s very clear to me that Tony has very minimal understanding of the way SCM is supposed to be used, but there’s nothing we can ultimately do about him choosing to be obstinate, at the end of the day. |
19:40 |
Quozl_ |
i've no idea what the new contributor thinks of all this, we may have lost them. |
19:40 |
walterbender |
Quozl_: I will reach out... again (on this new thread) |
19:40 |
MrBIOS |
walterbender: yeah this is probably something to which you are best suited to respond |
19:41 |
Quozl_ |
i wish we had an api way of finding out what repositories we aren't watching on sugarlabs. so if anyone has any github api foo, that's an idea to look at. |
19:41 |
pikurasa |
Tony says "I will continue to distrust version control in github until some proper procedures are put in place." https://github.com/sugarlabs/b[…]comment-468192348 |
19:41 |
MrBIOS |
and he does not describe which procedures he thinks need to be put in place, or why |
19:41 |
Quozl_ |
okay, i've nothing more to add, we can move on to general discussion if everybody is finished with this one? |
19:41 |
walterbender |
I guess he don't think our current procedures are proper... but they are what we have been using for 10+ years |
19:41 |
MrBIOS |
yes please |
19:42 |
pikurasa |
so Quozl_ what do you propose to do given the situation? |
19:42 |
walterbender |
Quozl_: I have one more topic -- a book purchase -- when we are done with this topic |
19:43 |
Quozl_ |
pikurasa: nothing yet. my plan is still in the issue first post. generally, i'll continue logging easy issues for new developers. |
19:43 |
MrBIOS |
what was the next topic on the agenda? |
19:43 |
Quozl_ |
#topic book purchase |
19:43 |
|
walterbender: go ahead. |
19:43 |
|
callaurrea has quit IRC |
19:44 |
Quozl_ |
MrBIOS: we're off the agenda now, on fresh stuff. |
19:44 |
walterbender |
Perrie, who is our de facto design team asked if we would buy a book |
19:44 |
|
https://www.nngroup.com/articl[…]usability-issues/ |
19:44 |
MrBIOS |
roger |
19:44 |
walterbender |
it seems quite relevant |
19:44 |
|
it is a bit pricy: $180 |
19:44 |
Quozl_ |
there was also that children's software research study, a bit cheaper if i recall correctly. are they related at all? |
19:44 |
MrBIOS |
it’s a report, really |
19:45 |
|
the group license is $388 |
19:45 |
walterbender |
yes |
19:45 |
|
callaurrea <callaurrea!1228548f gateway/web/freenode/ip.18.40.84.143> has joined #sugar-meeting |
19:45 |
Quozl_ |
yep, that was the one. i asked about it at the time. so we have someone who can use it. |
19:45 |
MrBIOS |
which might be a better buy, since we could actually legally share it (albeit pivately) |
19:45 |
llaske |
I think a group license will be better |
19:45 |
MrBIOS |
agreed |
19:46 |
Quozl_ |
we would have to remember to give it to only members. |
19:46 |
MrBIOS |
correct. |
19:46 |
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perrie has quit IRC |
19:46 |
Quozl_ |
would someone like to move that we purchase the group license? |
19:46 |
MrBIOS |
I move that we purchase a group license for this |
19:46 |
Quozl_ |
okay, seconders? |
19:46 |
walterbender |
seconded |
19:46 |
pikurasa |
I am for it if 1) it seems helpful and 2) we use it. |
19:46 |
MrBIOS |
This = “UX Design for Children (Ages 3-12) 4th edition” |
19:46 |
Quozl_ |
discussion on motion? |
19:47 |
pikurasa |
And will assume that 1 and 2 are true, thus +1 |
19:47 |
llaske |
+1 |
19:47 |
walterbender |
+1 |
19:47 |
Quozl_ |
looks like we're in agreement. callaurrea: motion is to purchase group license for https://www.nngroup.com/articl[…]usability-issues/ |
19:47 |
|
samsongoddy: ? |
19:47 |
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perrie <perrie!~perrie 129.56.60.27> has joined #sugar-meeting |
19:47 |
samsongoddy |
+1 |
19:48 |
callaurrea |
what is the cost? |
19:48 |
MrBIOS |
group use license is $388 |
19:48 |
callaurrea |
+1 |
19:48 |
|
thanks, MrBIOS |
19:48 |
MrBIOS |
process-wise, since we are agreed, how do we go about executing on the purchase? Can we just have SFC buy it on our behalf? |
19:48 |
Quozl_ |
#agreed Motion 2019-08: to purchase a group license to https://www.nngroup.com/articl[…]usability-issues/ for use by members of Sugar Labs. |
19:49 |
|
MrBIOS: i'll ask them, my job to do so. |
19:49 |
|
#topic any general discussion |
19:49 |
MrBIOS |
also had one issue to bring up regarding SFC travel policy |
19:49 |
Quozl_ |
we're ten minutes before end of meeting, anything else to talk about? |
19:49 |
walterbender |
I have nothing more |
19:49 |
Quozl_ |
MrBIOS: go ahead. |
19:50 |
MrBIOS |
the current policy seems to require that the least expensive flight always be purchased, regardless of the amount of time it adds to take a non-direct flight. |
19:50 |
pikurasa |
Not exactly |
19:50 |
ibiam |
Agreed |
19:50 |
MrBIOS |
Since I value my time, I would like to understand more fully if it is possible to simply personally pay the difference between the two. |
19:50 |
Quozl_ |
ibiam: agreed with which line? |
19:50 |
MrBIOS |
I have two full time jobs. |
19:50 |
ibiam |
pikurasa's |
19:50 |
walterbender |
MrBIOS: the more recent (as of a few years ago) policy is a little more flexible |
19:51 |
MrBIOS |
walterbender: got it, can you explain how it was changed? |
19:51 |
pikurasa |
It does say that "more than one connection" is not assumed to be "reasonable" (I am paraphrasing) |
19:51 |
|
^ needs verification... from my memory |
19:51 |
MrBIOS |
I have already purchased travel, non-stop, to PyCon, prior to fully understanding the SFC policy on this (my bad) |
19:51 |
ibiam |
MrBIOS: you can also choose a flight that's $100 more from the lowest available |
19:51 |
MrBIOS |
this saves several hours |
19:51 |
walterbender |
MrBIOS: there is a formula layover time vs $ |
19:52 |
pikurasa |
MrBIOS: In my experience is the most important question is "did you take a screenshot of the various prices at purchase"? |
19:53 |
MrBIOS |
pikurasa: and I did not, in my case, because I was unaware that this was the policy, but I think the price is quite reasonable, but I can’t go back in time to take screenshots, so I’m a bit at a loss as to how to rectify this oversight |
19:53 |
pikurasa |
MrBIOS: I have messed up a few times. I recommend that (assuming you made an error) you explain yourself. |
19:53 |
MrBIOS |
anyways, just something I wanted to throw out there. I would also like to briefly touch upon PyCon. |
19:53 |
walterbender |
needs to head to the airport... sorry leave a few minutes early. thanks everyone, |
19:53 |
Quozl_ |
go ahead, MrBIOS |
19:54 |
MrBIOS |
walterbender: no worries, thanks! |
19:54 |
pikurasa |
Karen asked me once if there is a way to make this system more convenient, so I think they are open to ideas. FYI |
19:54 |
|
I need to go, too. |
19:54 |
|
Thank you! |
19:54 |
MrBIOS |
I would very much like them to consider using something as Expensify |
19:54 |
|
but they would probably be opposed because it’s not OSS |
19:54 |
Quozl_ |
i'm not familiar. |
19:54 |
MrBIOS |
it’s an app/platform for managing expenses electronically, and submitting them in a structured, electronic format |
19:54 |
Quozl_ |
but yes, in general, they won't use non-oss if they can avoid it. |
19:55 |
|
despite doing so raising their own costs and our costs. ;-) |
19:55 |
MrBIOS |
eg photos of receipts, associated with the actual structured data which describes things about the expense, etc. |
19:56 |
|
something to consider, I am sure there are other solutions which accomplish something similar, Expensify is just the one I’m familiar with |
19:56 |
pikurasa |
It could be as simple as a simpler presentation of the important information from their policy on their website. |
19:56 |
|
Bye for now. |
19:56 |
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pikurasa has quit IRC |
19:56 |
Quozl_ |
pikurasa: bye. |
19:56 |
MrBIOS |
yes, having it written in non-legalese (“American”) as Quozl_ pejoratively refers to it as, would be a good first start |
19:56 |
Quozl_ |
eh? pejoratively? what's wrong with saying it that way? |
19:57 |
|
in australia we always refer to canadians and united states of america residents as "american". |
19:57 |
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19:57 |
MrBIOS |
it sounds moderately hostile to me, but I don’t think it matters. We think of people who speak and write like that as lawyers being lawyers |
19:57 |
|
Anyways, PyCon. |
19:57 |
Quozl_ |
(the canadians don't like it, but we can't tell their accents apart). |
19:58 |
MrBIOS |
samsongoddy has an accepted talk there, I believe. Samson, can you share a link to this content? |
19:58 |
samsongoddy |
https://docs.google.com/docume[…]/edit?usp=sharing |
19:58 |
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19:59 |
samsongoddy |
Pycon offer to purchase my international ticket |
19:59 |
MrBIOS |
Thanks. I have not purchased lodging for PyCon yet, but I need to reserve something Real Soon Now. |
19:59 |
samsongoddy |
But I will be needing support for NY to Ohio |
19:59 |
|
local flight |
20:00 |
MrBIOS |
that should not be an expensive flight. |
20:00 |
samsongoddy |
Yes |
20:00 |
|
it is under $300 |
20:00 |
MrBIOS |
before I can do that, I need to know roughly how many people we will have in attendance, assuming we are going to share |
20:00 |
samsongoddy |
Perrie got accepted |
20:00 |
MrBIOS |
which airport in NYC? |
20:00 |
samsongoddy |
JFK |
20:00 |
|
airport |
20:01 |
|
But my speaker ticket didn't cover food expenses |
20:01 |
MrBIOS |
there are 60 days until April 30th, which is the day PyCon begins |
20:01 |
samsongoddy |
but they waived my $400 ticket |
20:01 |
|
Pycon start 1st of May |
20:02 |
|
I will be speaking 2nd or 3rd. I am waiting for the calendar |
20:02 |
MrBIOS |
correct, but we need to arrive before then if we want to be there on the first day :) |
20:02 |
ibiam |
Yeah |
20:02 |
MrBIOS |
Quozl_: any thoughts here? |
20:02 |
samsongoddy |
Yes |
20:02 |
Quozl_ |
samsongoddy: do get on to the travel advance then, covering the parts that are not funded. we have the money, and the board is, except lionel, in favour at the moment. |
20:02 |
perrie |
I'll be attending PyCon hopefully if my visa gets accepted |
20:03 |
samsongoddy |
I will send a motion to the board by mail for this advance |
20:03 |
Quozl_ |
samsongoddy: in your travel advance request, list the costs you need cover for, _and_ for the record the costs that you don't need cover for. |
20:03 |
samsongoddy |
Sure |
20:03 |
|
I will do that |
20:04 |
MrBIOS |
Quozl_: I would like to propose a motion that we approve purchase of group/airbnb-style lodging for a handful of people, including myself. I can book it. |
20:04 |
Quozl_ |
MrBIOS: by mail thanks, the meeting has gone over, and we have lost several people. |
20:04 |
MrBIOS |
yes |
20:04 |
|
by mail for sure |
20:04 |
|
just brininging it up here so it’s on-record |
20:04 |
Quozl_ |
... just remember, about $93k and it's not going down fast enough. |
20:05 |
MrBIOS |
I’ll be sure to book the ritz-carlton penthouse |
20:05 |
Quozl_ |
... we're not an investment bank. ;-) |
20:05 |
MrBIOS |
;-) |
20:05 |
|
honestly most of the hotels in the area are already booked |
20:05 |
ibiam |
And they're quite expensive |
20:05 |
samsongoddy |
Quozl_, I am guessing with the update from Karen. I should forget about the refunds |
20:07 |
Quozl_ |
samsongoddy: yes, on motion 2019-04 there's nothing more we can do about it unless you have new information that you want the conservancy board to consider. and we'd need to be convinced as well that the new information is worth them considering. karen had thought it would be okay, but the feeling of her board was different. |
20:08 |
samsongoddy |
I don't think I have any idea. This isn't the first time I refusing a refunds anyways |
20:08 |
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This isn't new |
20:08 |
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20:09 |
Quozl_ |
samsongoddy: ultimately, this board is at fault, our previous baord is at fault, and you share some of the fault. i think we can see what needs to happen to make sure it doesn't happen again. it's nothing to do with lionel, in my opinion. |
20:09 |
samsongoddy |
I am not faulting lionel either |
20:10 |
|
Karen saw me in london |
20:10 |
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And we briefly discussed about the situation |
20:10 |
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About the previous board |
20:11 |
Quozl_ |
#topic closing meeting |
20:11 |
samsongoddy |
Do you think that you can raise the issue with SFC that the board was unresponsive? As I am sure I sent in a motion immediately after my trip |
20:11 |
Quozl_ |
all in favour of closing the meeting? |
20:11 |
samsongoddy |
+1 |
20:11 |
MrBIOS |
aye, +1 |
20:11 |
samsongoddy |
I think I should either start ignoring trips that will require me to travel |
20:12 |
|
As I don't wish to leave my comfort zone again and still keep losing money. I am not working |
20:12 |
Quozl_ |
samsongoddy: karen knew our previous board was unresponsive. she would have raised that at her board. but that doesn't make it conservancy's responsibility; it made it even more your responsibility to wake that previous board up. |
20:13 |
samsongoddy |
Quozl_, trust me I tried. I wrote to the board |
20:13 |
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Individually |
20:13 |
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general |
20:13 |
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Tried everything I could |
20:13 |
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Something similar happen in January 2018 |
20:13 |
Quozl_ |
samsongoddy: i only have evidence of the slobs@ mailing list. if a board member does not respond, you should have used a telephone. |
20:14 |
samsongoddy |
I was ignored |
20:14 |
Quozl_ |
if they refuse to answer your calls or mail, you should try public mailing lists, carefully at first. e.g. "please call me". |
20:14 |
samsongoddy |
That all |
20:15 |
|
At least that how I understood it. |
20:15 |
Quozl_ |
and, once this becomes an issue, you have a responsibility to record your own actions to remedy it. |
20:15 |
|
so that you can stand up in court and say "this is what i did to try to contact the board of which i was a member". |
20:16 |
samsongoddy |
I did reach out to all board member |
20:16 |
ibiam |
Quozl_: I don't think that sending to the mailing list would make any difference as he reached out to them personally and got no response |
20:16 |
Quozl_ |
and i'm saying, based on your failure, you didn't do enough, or you did it in a way that caused them to feel they could not respond. |
20:17 |
samsongoddy |
Well to my understand I simply asked that I need a vote on the motion. simple -1 or +1 |
20:17 |
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won |
20:17 |
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Won't hurt |
20:17 |
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When the board was a bit confusional in early 2018 |
20:18 |
Quozl_ |
i don't remember a motion in slobs mailing list archives that i read; because you can't move a motion yourself for your own travel. |
20:18 |
|
i'm talking about the london trip advance in late 2018. |
20:19 |
samsongoddy |
it doesn't make any difference |
20:19 |
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because it happen early 2018 |
20:19 |
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also |
20:20 |
Quozl_ |
as i said, i'm only looking at the issue with the london trip advance, because that's the issue that i studied in detail. |
20:20 |
samsongoddy |
I did what I can. Ask the board, contacted them individually |
20:21 |
Quozl_ |
did you keep a diary of that? |
20:21 |
samsongoddy |
Of personal conversional on social media? |
20:21 |
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FB and Hangout |
20:22 |
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I even had a meeting with lionel for him to vote -1 or +1 |
20:22 |
Quozl_ |
a board member is _required_ to keep these records, yes. in summary form. you might seek some board director training. |
20:22 |
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it irritates me that people join boards without understanding their obligations. |
20:23 |
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diary entry is like; date, tried to speak with N, no answer. |
20:24 |
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once you have identified a pattern of exclusion behaviour, your choices are to resign, raise it with the chair, or in our case raise it with the conservancy. |
20:24 |
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and you say you kept a diary, and these are the things i tried to do. |
20:24 |
samsongoddy |
I can't mail SFC because it was Adam job |
20:24 |
Quozl_ |
wrong. |
20:25 |
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you can mail sfc if adam was not doing his job as a plc member. |
20:25 |
MrBIOS |
correct |
20:25 |
Quozl_ |
because if adam was not doing his job, it means _you_ are responsible to do it. |
20:25 |
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same now, if i do not do my job as liaison with sfc, _you all_ must do it. |
20:25 |
MrBIOS |
if James stops responding to us for whatever reason, we have every right (and possibly even obligation) to contact SFC directly |
20:25 |
Quozl_ |
MrBIOS: yes, spot on. |
20:26 |
samsongoddy |
I had a conversation with Karen about it |
20:26 |
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in person |
20:26 |
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About Adam and the failure of the board response |
20:26 |
Quozl_ |
this concept in director training is "jointly and severally responsible". |
20:26 |
samsongoddy |
She just told me to keep receipts |
20:26 |
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which is very important |
20:27 |
Quozl_ |
yes, it is clear that karen was offering to cover adam's responsibility for a while. she probably expected to have to process your travel claim herself. |
20:27 |
MrBIOS |
right, but Karen is also not able to make unilateral decisions on the part of SFC |
20:28 |
Quozl_ |
MrBIOS: it would have worked but for the additional delay that took it beyond the 90 day limit. |
20:28 |
MrBIOS |
yep, and that’s the shitty part |
20:28 |
Quozl_ |
MrBIOS: and we as the new board were also responsible for that delay. |
20:28 |
MrBIOS |
I would hope SFC would be able to understand that, but apparently they are just too annoyed with us |
20:29 |
Quozl_ |
MrBIOS: i took this morning's news of the conservancy board meeting decision as a signal that things are tight for them because of their leniency toward several projects, and we are just one of their problems. |
20:30 |
MrBIOS |
tight in what sense, financially? |
20:30 |
Quozl_ |
s/this morning/a few hours ago |
20:30 |
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i've no idea. just that the other project affected had way more excuse than we did; actual illness. |
20:31 |
MrBIOS |
got it |
20:31 |
samsongoddy |
To be honest with you I am actually very disappointed. |
20:33 |
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This happened again for the second time |
20:33 |
Quozl_ |
samsongoddy: in any board i'm on, i've always got that trump card, of resigning if nobody is listening to me. you should be disappointed. you should be more careful. not all of this is your fault, but there are things you can do to improve future situations. |
20:33 |
samsongoddy |
Quozl_, I am considering it. |
20:35 |
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We will be having election this year anyways |
20:35 |
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So I will see if i am still interested to re-run |
20:36 |
Quozl_ |
you have a stack of disadvantages to deal with. as do i. just means i have to work harder to overcome them. |
20:36 |
samsongoddy |
Because so far my efforts are slamming me on my face |
20:36 |
MrBIOS |
utilizing SFC comes with its own set of limitations |
20:36 |
Quozl_ |
i disagree, some of your efforts have paid off. |
20:37 |
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remember to count your successes as well. |
20:37 |
samsongoddy |
Yes |
20:38 |
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First of all SFC rules doesn't work very well in Africa especially Nigeria. |
20:38 |
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Like for example SFC cannot book flight from Nigeria |
20:38 |
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so it is up to me to ask someone to advance it or I do it myself. After making the expenses, I always run into problems with SFC |
20:39 |
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90% board and 10% SFC |
20:40 |
Quozl_ |
at pycon, put a hat out, say "donations toward travel costs are welcome, nigeria is difficult to travel from.", but don't use it as an opportunity to criticise SFC or Sugar Labs board. |
20:40 |
samsongoddy |
Quozl_, I just remembered |
20:40 |
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I did contact SFC when Adam was inactive |
20:40 |
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perrie has quit IRC |
20:40 |
samsongoddy |
I was told by Bradley to let Adam do his job |
20:41 |
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That is why I don't email SFC |
20:41 |
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anymore after early 2018 case |
20:41 |
Quozl_ |
did you keep a copy of that you can share with alex and i? |
20:41 |
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perrie <perrie!~perrie 129.56.60.27> has joined #sugar-meeting |
20:41 |
samsongoddy |
Sure I can check my emails |
20:41 |
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Hopefully I still have a copy |
20:41 |
MrBIOS |
that would be very helpful to present as evidence |
20:41 |
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but honestly should have already been presented |
20:42 |
Quozl_ |
alex and i have discussed the value that sfc brings to us, and how they respond to problems. |
20:42 |
samsongoddy |
I used to use IRC channel to ask for advice and questions |
20:42 |
|
SFC IRC channel |
20:44 |
Quozl_ |
can we finish this meeting now? i've got things to do. a day of safety training for ministers. i've only got ten minutes left here. |
20:44 |
samsongoddy |
Sure |
20:44 |
Quozl_ |
MrBIOS: ? |
20:44 |
samsongoddy |
I will forward the mail |
20:46 |
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perrie has quit IRC |
20:48 |
MrBIOS |
yes please finish |
20:48 |
Quozl_ |
#endmeeting |
20:48 |
meeting |
Meeting ended Fri Mar 1 20:48:20 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
20:48 |
|
Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-01T18:58:42.html |
20:48 |
|
Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]19-03-01T18:58:42 |