| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 02:32 |
meeting |
Meeting started Wed May 16 02:32:20 2018 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 02:32 |
|
Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting |
| 02:32 |
walterbender |
I suppose we should be logging :) |
| 02:32 |
pikurasa |
sure |
| 02:33 |
|
#agreed |
| 02:33 |
a-ritwik |
Yeah, I think I have decent idea. |
| 02:33 |
walterbender |
The tapping code is a bit of a kludge |
| 02:34 |
|
but it sort of kind of works |
| 02:34 |
|
enough to get an idea |
| 02:35 |
|
a-ritwik, is that the thing you are planning to work on first? |
| 02:35 |
a-ritwik |
I am currently working on #754 and #756 |
| 02:37 |
pikurasa |
a-ritwik: any questions? |
| 02:40 |
walterbender |
hello? |
| 02:40 |
a-ritwik |
In #756 we have to find highest factor and then highlight so the user gets idea of time, am I correct? |
| 02:42 |
|
eg. in 1/2, 1/4 and 1/8 we would choose 1/8 |
| 02:42 |
walterbender |
pikurasa, please refresh my memory... this ticket is in regard to the progress bar when tapping, correct? |
| 02:43 |
pikurasa |
yes, 1/8, but then show subdivision one factor more than 1/8, so 1/16 |
| 02:44 |
|
walterbender: it is related to it, but it would be useful with or without tapping |
| 02:45 |
walterbender |
maybe we want a separate row for this? |
| 02:45 |
pikurasa |
walterbender: that would be fine |
| 02:45 |
a-ritwik |
+1 |
| 02:46 |
walterbender |
I understand where the LCD would come from if playing back a rhythm after it is defined |
| 02:46 |
|
but how do we know before it is defined, e.g., when tapping? |
| 02:46 |
pikurasa |
walterbender: probably from meter |
| 02:47 |
|
would be best |
| 02:47 |
|
it is not so black and white however |
| 02:47 |
|
to predict what a user might want, but that would probably work for most cases |
| 02:48 |
walterbender |
since the default is 4:4, then we'd use 1/8 notes? |
| 02:48 |
pikurasa |
Yes, I think that should work. |
| 02:48 |
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And 8/8 would be 1/16 notes |
| 02:48 |
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riyalohia <riyalohia!6acfe255 gateway/web/freenode/ip.106.207.226.85> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 02:49 |
pikurasa |
It is not perfect, but is better than nothing |
| 02:49 |
walterbender |
So maybe a-ritwik should tackle #754 first? |
| 02:50 |
pikurasa |
that would make sense to me |
| 02:50 |
walterbender |
And we could include a meter block in the macro by default. |
| 02:50 |
pikurasa |
a-ritwik: does that sound good to you? |
| 02:50 |
a-ritwik |
fine |
| 02:50 |
|
seems good |
| 02:50 |
walterbender |
OK. |
| 02:51 |
|
anything else we need to cover at the moment? |
| 02:51 |
pikurasa |
a-ritwik: Please update via email on a regular basis |
| 02:51 |
a-ritwik |
okay, I will mail 2-3 times a week. |
| 02:51 |
walterbender |
pikurasa, FYI, I've started to dig into #1210 |
| 02:52 |
|
We must have created a regression in the lilypond code. |
| 02:52 |
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I'll try to dig into it in the morning. |
| 02:53 |
pikurasa |
walterbender: I could not tell if it was just lilypond or something else |
| 02:53 |
walterbender |
Might be more than one issue |
| 02:53 |
a-ritwik |
walterbender, what are zebra stripes in rhythm ruler? |
| 02:54 |
pikurasa |
the performance was very badly compromised when I was playing it back, so it hard to tell |
| 02:54 |
walterbender |
a-ritwik, that is just a way to ensure you can tell one cell from the next... every other cell is a different color |
| 02:54 |
|
pikurasa, I will report back in the AM |
| 02:54 |
pikurasa |
which was funny, because I played the bach retrograde plot example and thought "wow, it is running so fast!" |
| 02:55 |
|
squirrelly |
| 02:55 |
a-ritwik |
thanks for explaining. |
| 02:55 |
walterbender |
pikurasa, had you played other things too or was it a fresh session? |
| 02:55 |
pikurasa |
walterbender: feel free to work on it anytime. Not in any hurry |
| 02:55 |
walterbender |
worrying about synth garbage collection |
| 02:56 |
pikurasa |
walterbender: I closed and reopened and it still was slow, but maybe some cache is left over between sessions...??? |
| 02:56 |
walterbender |
a-ritwik, we update the zebra stripes whenever we divide (or merge) cells |
| 02:57 |
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pikurasa, I'll check it when I am awake :) |
| 02:57 |
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anything else a-ritwik ??? |
| 02:57 |
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riyalohia, I see you are here |
| 02:57 |
a-ritwik |
No |
| 02:57 |
riyalohia |
walterbender , pikurasa : hii!! |
| 02:58 |
pikurasa |
hi riyalohia!!! |
| 02:58 |
walterbender |
Maybe we can switch gears to temperament ??? |
| 02:58 |
pikurasa |
Thanks a-ritwik! |
| 02:58 |
riyalohia |
walterbender , yes :) |
| 02:58 |
pikurasa |
walterbender: sounds good to me |
| 02:58 |
walterbender |
a-ritwik, don't be shy with questions |
| 02:58 |
pikurasa |
(everything sounds like a pun lately :p) |
| 02:58 |
walterbender |
riyalohia, can you walk me through your PR? |
| 02:59 |
|
I am a bit lost in the musicblocks.js changes |
| 02:59 |
riyalohia |
walterbender, sure! |
| 02:59 |
pikurasa |
riyalohia: for my sake, what is your reference for just intonation? |
| 03:00 |
walterbender |
Let's discuss the table itself first |
| 03:00 |
pikurasa |
(whenever you get a chance) |
| 03:00 |
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a-ritwik has quit IRC |
| 03:00 |
riyalohia |
1.) I have created the look up table having equal, Just Intonation and Meantone systems. |
| 03:01 |
walterbender |
I understand the ratios section, I think |
| 03:01 |
riyalohia |
2.) I have not yet passed the ratios to the synth. |
| 03:01 |
walterbender |
but I don't quite understand why you moved all of the pitch arrays into the table |
| 03:02 |
|
where do those arrays differ from one tuning system to the next? |
| 03:02 |
riyalohia |
As in one of our mails, pikurasa explained that semitones doesnt change, so I have not changed the calculations for semitones and half steps. |
| 03:03 |
pikurasa |
riyalohia: what do you mean by the semitones do not change? |
| 03:04 |
riyalohia |
walterbender, regarding pitch arrays, it will be C, C#, Db, D ... for 21 note system but for equal it would be C, C#, D ...thats y I moved all of the pitch arrays into the table. |
| 03:05 |
walterbender |
riyalohia, I get that, but I guess I dpn |
| 03:06 |
pikurasa |
dpn? |
| 03:06 |
riyalohia |
pikurasa, the semitones between C and D are 2 in equal temperament and for 21 note system also, the semitones between C and D are 2. (semitones dont change) |
| 03:06 |
walterbender |
but you would still go from C to C# to D in a half-step prgression |
| 03:06 |
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it is the accidentals that would change |
| 03:06 |
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unless I am misunderstanding something |
| 03:07 |
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In other words, C# does not necessarily === Db |
| 03:07 |
riyalohia |
walterbender, yes! ..I have taken care of that. |
| 03:07 |
pikurasa |
walterbender: is correct |
| 03:07 |
walterbender |
but if I was playing a scale, I wouldn't play C# followed by Db |
| 03:07 |
pikurasa |
and that is correct as well |
| 03:08 |
walterbender |
riyalohia, I guess I need to dig a bit deeper into how you set things up, |
| 03:08 |
|
Some comments in the code would help :) |
| 03:08 |
pikurasa |
riyalohia: the error I see with your statement above is: |
| 03:09 |
riyalohia |
walterbender, I'll add the comments. :) |
| 03:09 |
pikurasa |
Instead of thinking just in half steps, you need to think in all the interval possibilities |
| 03:09 |
walterbender |
pikurasa, I think that is what the ratios do |
| 03:10 |
pikurasa |
so, yes two semitones, but really C --> D is a major second |
| 03:10 |
|
The ratios, as far as I could tell, seemed correct |
| 03:11 |
|
There were some missing possibilities, but perhaps corner cases |
| 03:11 |
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is unsure where we "draw the line" |
| 03:11 |
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some missing augmented/diminished for 6ths if I remember correctly |
| 03:11 |
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...but not really worried about it now |
| 03:12 |
riyalohia |
pikurasa: A second major will always have 2 semitones (halfsteps) whether we are in 21 note system or in 12 note system? |
| 03:12 |
pikurasa |
yes, but the distance of the semitones themselves could be different |
| 03:12 |
walterbender |
riyalohia, I think we are confusing our nomenclature |
| 03:12 |
pikurasa |
they may not be equal |
| 03:13 |
riyalohia |
pikurasa: when are they not equal ? |
| 03:13 |
pikurasa |
so C --> C# may not equal C# --> D may not equal C --> Db may not equal Db --> D and so forth |
| 03:14 |
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riyalohia: please send the just intonation reference that you used |
| 03:14 |
riyalohia |
pikurasa: just intonation ratios reference ? |
| 03:14 |
walterbender |
riyalohia, I think we can make everything a bit less complicated (at least for 21 and 12) |
| 03:15 |
riyalohia |
walterbender, how ? |
| 03:15 |
walterbender |
riyalohia, let's tease things apart for a moment |
| 03:16 |
|
If we generate, using the ratios, 21 notes that we will pass to the synth, that will handle the tuning |
| 03:16 |
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then we need to worry separately about how we navigate the mode |
| 03:17 |
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if we are on C and go up a half step, we should get to C# |
| 03:17 |
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if we are on D and go down a half-step, we should be on Db |
| 03:17 |
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(when the half step is defined using an accidental) |
| 03:18 |
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but when it is defined by the mode, we may want to go C to Db or D to C# |
| 03:18 |
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Does that make sense, pikurasa ? |
| 03:19 |
pikurasa |
walterbender: yes |
| 03:19 |
riyalohia |
walterbender, if we are on C# and want to go a half-step up, we should get D ? |
| 03:19 |
|
is this correct ? |
| 03:20 |
walterbender |
riyalohia, yes... |
| 03:20 |
pikurasa |
by default, yes |
| 03:20 |
riyalohia |
okay! |
| 03:20 |
pikurasa |
unless the key/mode calls for something else |
| 03:20 |
walterbender |
unless the way we define the half-step is by using double sharp |
| 03:20 |
|
in which case, we'd want C## |
| 03:21 |
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which in equal temperament would be the same as D |
| 03:21 |
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but in other tuning systems, maybe not |
| 03:21 |
pikurasa |
riyalohia: As for different semi-tones, this article discusses them in detail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitone |
| 03:22 |
walterbender |
riyalohia, in any case, I think you can simplify your table |
| 03:22 |
riyalohia |
walterbender, what changes do I have to make ? |
| 03:22 |
pikurasa |
riyalohia: by the way, this book is great: https://books.google.com/books[…]onepage&q&f=false |
| 03:22 |
|
and easy to read |
| 03:23 |
walterbender |
riyalohia, I think you need the ratios, so you can calculate the correct note to send to the synth |
| 03:24 |
|
but maybe the other changes are not necessary? |
| 03:24 |
|
except to make sure that accidentals don't get confused with semi-tones. |
| 03:25 |
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(even though in equal-temp. they are the same) |
| 03:25 |
pikurasa |
riyalohia: questions? |
| 03:26 |
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I know it is a bit challenging. It took me quite a while to wrap my brain around it -- and I am doing music all the time! |
| 03:26 |
riyalohia |
Do I just need the ratios in my lookup table ? |
| 03:26 |
pikurasa |
It does not help that the topic is avoided in music classes. |
| 03:27 |
riyalohia |
( I am really sorry but I am very confused ) |
| 03:27 |
walterbender |
riyalohia, I'll work on another diagram for you tomorrow to try to explain it. |
| 03:28 |
riyalohia |
walterbender, what changes do I need to make for now ? |
| 03:28 |
walterbender |
But basically, we use the table (ratios) to tweak the hertz associated with a note |
| 03:29 |
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and that in turn impacts the ratio between notes (interval) |
| 03:29 |
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but we still walk though the scales the same way. |
| 03:29 |
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just the notes we play have been tuned differently |
| 03:29 |
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bikram <bikram!~bikram202.63.242.180> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 03:30 |
walterbender |
so the code mostly already handles the walking through scales part |
| 03:30 |
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but not the tweaking for the hertz |
| 03:30 |
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so the table needs to be placed between Music Blocks and the calls to the synth. |
| 03:31 |
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riyalohia, it will get more confused when we introduce additional notes beyond our 12 (21) |
| 03:31 |
|
but we can deal with that later |
| 03:32 |
pikurasa |
riyalohia: do you understand walter's basic advice? |
| 03:32 |
riyalohia |
okay! so I will remove the pitches array in the table. |
| 03:32 |
walterbender |
riyalohia, yes... wind back those changes |
| 03:33 |
riyalohia |
pikurasa, which advice ? |
| 03:33 |
walterbender |
and when the temperament is selected, populate a table based on the ratios to define the notes that will be played by the synth. |
| 03:33 |
pikurasa |
riyalohia: (this advice) |
| 03:33 |
walterbender |
the table for equal temperament can just be identity, since the synth uses equal temperament by default |
| 03:34 |
|
but with meantone, the A is not necessarily 440 any more... |
| 03:36 |
riyalohia |
walterbender, so I dont need to put ratios for equal temperament which is 2^(x/12) ? |
| 03:36 |
pikurasa |
anything else? |
| 03:36 |
walterbender |
riyalohia, it is good to have it there for completeness |
| 03:36 |
riyalohia |
walterbender, got it! |
| 03:36 |
walterbender |
it makes things clear as to what is happening |
| 03:37 |
|
but in your calculations for the synth, it is already done by default |
| 03:37 |
riyalohia |
I 'll change the table and revert back the calculations I changed. |
| 03:37 |
walterbender |
OK |
| 03:37 |
|
let me know when you have something for me to look at |
| 03:38 |
riyalohia |
walterbender , okay! |
| 03:38 |
walterbender |
anything else for tonight? |
| 03:38 |
riyalohia |
walterbender, pikurasa, thank you so much for the help :) |
| 03:39 |
walterbender |
that is what we are here for... |
| 03:39 |
pikurasa |
riyalohia: no problem. Keep up the good pace!! |
| 03:39 |
walterbender |
and your questions help me clarify things in my mind |
| 03:39 |
pikurasa |
It's nice to have work to review! |
| 03:39 |
|
is really excited about this |
| 03:40 |
walterbender |
I need to call it a night soon |
| 03:40 |
riyalohia |
pikurasa: I am also really excited about this :) |
| 03:40 |
pikurasa |
families always ask for tips to learn how to tune by ear, and this is definitely going to be in the toolbox for teaching that concept!!! |
| 03:40 |
walterbender |
riyalohia, please send email if you get stuck before I am back on line in the morning |
| 03:40 |
riyalohia |
walterbender, okay :) |
| 03:41 |
pikurasa |
feel free to cc me onto correspondences, too |
| 03:41 |
riyalohia |
pikurasa, I will :) |
| 03:41 |
pikurasa |
okay, g'night |
| 03:41 |
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bye riyalohia walterbender |
| 03:41 |
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pikurasa has quit IRC |
| 03:42 |
riyalohia |
pikurasa, walterbender, bye! |
| 03:42 |
walterbender |
good night |
| 03:42 |
|
#end-meeting |
| 03:42 |
meeting |
Meeting ended Wed May 16 03:42:40 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 03:42 |
|
Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-16T02:32:20.html |
| 03:42 |
|
Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]18-05-16T02:32:20 |