| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 02:31 |
meeting |
Meeting started Wed May 9 02:31:29 2018 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 02:31 |
|
Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting |
| 02:32 |
walterbender |
pikurasa, I think I fixed the bug with the cursor not tracking (#1130) |
| 02:32 |
|
so all of the interactive demos should be much more stable :) |
| 02:32 |
pikurasa |
yes, I see that. |
| 02:32 |
walterbender |
pikurasa, what time are you in court tomorrow? |
| 02:33 |
|
has a meeting in Cambridge from 8-8:45am |
| 02:33 |
pikurasa |
I tried one of the examples and it worked well the first time. However, the second time it was very slow |
| 02:33 |
|
walterbender: They moved the date again |
| 02:33 |
walterbender |
pikurasa, hmmm... did you try refreshing the browser? |
| 02:33 |
pikurasa |
So I can meet anytime, anywhere |
| 02:34 |
walterbender |
I thought you had to be in West Newton |
| 02:34 |
pikurasa |
They moved the court date yet again |
| 02:35 |
walterbender |
Maybe Cambridge? At 9am? |
| 02:35 |
|
a-ritwik, sorry about this banter |
| 02:35 |
pikurasa |
Where in Cambridge? |
| 02:35 |
walterbender |
Kendall Sq? |
| 02:35 |
a-ritwik |
its fine |
| 02:35 |
walterbender |
a-ritwik, can you give a quick update? |
| 02:35 |
pikurasa |
Sure. I can meet at your office at 9 |
| 02:36 |
walterbender |
pikurasa, OK |
| 02:36 |
a-ritwik |
I tried understanding code for pitch time matrix |
| 02:37 |
walterbender |
a-ritwik, it is a bit convoluted |
| 02:37 |
|
prob. the most complicated widget |
| 02:37 |
a-ritwik |
also now using a better IDE for faster debugging. |
| 02:37 |
walterbender |
(except perhaps the timbre widget) |
| 02:37 |
|
a-ritwik, the trick bits involve trying to restore the state |
| 02:37 |
a-ritwik |
should I start from some easier widget? |
| 02:38 |
walterbender |
yes... I'd suggest tackling the rhythm ruler to start |
| 02:38 |
a-ritwik |
okay |
| 02:38 |
walterbender |
maybe first just confirm that the open issues are still valid |
| 02:39 |
|
then jump in. I don't think any of them are too complicated |
| 02:39 |
|
relatively speaking |
| 02:39 |
a-ritwik |
okay, I will check and comment on the issues. |
| 02:39 |
pikurasa |
a-ritwik: Rhythm Ruler probably still has many issues to be discovered (and fixed). |
| 02:39 |
a-ritwik |
also I see one pending pull request, I will fix it by today. |
| 02:40 |
walterbender |
a-ritwik, OK |
| 02:40 |
pikurasa |
a-ritwik: +1 |
| 02:40 |
walterbender |
a-ritwik, there is lots to do in cleaning up the lilypond code... |
| 02:41 |
|
it is pretty brittle... not my finest moment as a programmer |
| 02:41 |
a-ritwik |
yeah, many arrays are defined but are not needed that much. |
| 02:42 |
walterbender |
feel free to clean things up as you fix bugs |
| 02:43 |
a-ritwik |
pikurasa, I will try Rhythm ruler |
| 02:43 |
walterbender |
a-ritwik, ping me with any questions you may have. |
| 02:43 |
pikurasa |
a-ritwik: Please let us know if you have any questions. |
| 02:44 |
walterbender |
If I don't respond on IRC, ping me on gmail and I will join you here |
| 02:44 |
a-ritwik |
fine |
| 02:45 |
|
does the project's timeline needs a change? |
| 02:45 |
walterbender |
not yet... let's get into it to get a sense of the pace and scale of the problems.. |
| 02:45 |
|
we can revisit the timeline next week |
| 02:48 |
|
riyalohia_ <riyalohia_!6acfb0f5 gateway/web/freenode/ip.106.207.176.245> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 02:48 |
a-ritwik |
okay, I will ask for help when needed. |
| 02:49 |
walterbender |
hi riyalohia_ |
| 02:49 |
riyalohia_ |
walterbender, hii! |
| 02:50 |
pikurasa |
a-ritwik: regular communication is critical. Feel free to send communication anytime. |
| 02:50 |
|
riyalohia_: hello! |
| 02:50 |
riyalohia_ |
pikurasa, hii! |
| 02:53 |
|
Sachiko <Sachiko!~webchatrev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 02:53 |
riyalohia_ |
Sachiko, hii! |
| 02:53 |
pikurasa |
Hi Sachiko! |
| 02:55 |
walterbender |
everyone is here |
| 02:55 |
pikurasa |
Sachiko: is everything working for you? |
| 02:56 |
walterbender |
Sachiko, any comments about the widgets? |
| 02:56 |
pikurasa |
Sachiko: 大丈夫ですか？ |
| 02:56 |
walterbender |
a-ritwik was going to start by reviewing the rhythm-ruler widget |
| 02:56 |
|
not sure if you have ever tried it |
| 02:57 |
Sachiko |
Hello! Can you see my comment? |
| 02:57 |
pikurasa |
Sachiko: yes |
| 02:57 |
|
:) |
| 02:57 |
|
Sachiko: IRCへようこそ |
| 02:57 |
Sachiko |
Sorry that I was late in joining this! (This is my first success to join this!:) |
| 02:58 |
pikurasa |
Sachiko: no problem |
| 02:59 |
walterbender |
welcome to IRC (old-school chat) |
| 02:59 |
Sachiko |
So, a-rikwik would try to start with reviewing the rhythm-ruler widget to see how he(she?) could improve it? (debugging, etc.) |
| 02:59 |
walterbender |
that is the plan |
| 02:59 |
pikurasa |
yes Sachiko |
| 03:01 |
|
riyalohia_: I just added comments to your latest proposal draft |
| 03:02 |
riyalohia_ |
pikurasa : I just saw them, I will make the changes according to your comments. |
| 03:04 |
pikurasa |
We should probably have something simple (even simpler than the graph) to input and visualize the pitch-space |
| 03:04 |
|
Perhaps a circle. |
| 03:05 |
|
The graph would still be present, but the circle would help one identify the pitches within an octave, visually |
| 03:06 |
riyalohia_ |
pikurasa, do you want me to change the temperament widget design ? |
| 03:06 |
pikurasa |
I imagine lines that mark proportionally the relationship between the pitches (the visual distance would be equal to [logarithmic] pitch distance) |
| 03:06 |
|
riyalohia_: you do not need to change much, just add |
| 03:07 |
|
add a circle |
| 03:07 |
|
looks for my creations... |
| 03:08 |
Sachiko |
pikurasa, are you meaning the circle of the 5th? or the circle which has do do # re ... in this order? |
| 03:08 |
pikurasa |
never mind finding my own for now. Something like this: http://openmusictheory.com/Gra[…]h-class-Space.jpg |
| 03:08 |
|
Sachiko: not circle of fifths... in chromatic order |
| 03:09 |
|
so that one can see the tuning relationships |
| 03:09 |
|
I found that image here: http://openmusictheory.com/mod12.html |
| 03:09 |
riyalohia_ |
pikurasa, this circle would be a part of widget ? |
| 03:09 |
pikurasa |
riyalohia_: yes, output, like the graph |
| 03:10 |
walterbender |
pikurasa, I imagine that as the mouse hovers over a circle, the data for that entry is displayed? |
| 03:10 |
pikurasa |
walterbender: in hertz? |
| 03:11 |
walterbender |
maybe in several different formats |
| 03:11 |
|
hertz, the ratio if available... |
| 03:12 |
|
different entries from the table |
| 03:12 |
pikurasa |
hmmm... there could be a "free-form" (hertz) and computational (ratio or other calculation method). |
| 03:12 |
|
somewhat similar to what we have for pitch staircase... |
| 03:12 |
riyalohia_ |
pikurasa, so when user clicks on the temperament block, widget appears along with the circle? |
| 03:12 |
Sachiko |
I see. Is it to be drawn according to the "cent" (one circle = 1200 cent) to see the difference of the scales? (temperament, Pythagorian, intonation...) or just a simple one with 12 points, the length between the 2 points of which are all equal? (sorry for my bad English...) |
| 03:12 |
pikurasa |
riyalohia_: are you familiar with pitch staircase? |
| 03:13 |
|
riyalohia_: *the pitch staircase widget for MB |
| 03:13 |
riyalohia_ |
pikurasa, yes! |
| 03:14 |
pikurasa |
Sachiko: it would have 12 points when a 12 pitch system is selected |
| 03:14 |
|
Sachiko: but could have (almost) any number (up to a limit, I suppose) |
| 03:14 |
walterbender |
Sachiko, maybe we can drag the points on the circle as one way of adjusting the numbers |
| 03:14 |
Sachiko |
so the length between 2 points could be different according to the pitch system? |
| 03:15 |
pikurasa |
(some kids try to break the program by putting millions into these widgets) :p |
| 03:15 |
walterbender |
Sachiko, I think that would be nice |
| 03:16 |
pikurasa |
Sachiko: yes |
| 03:16 |
|
Sachiko: and could be altered, if desired |
| 03:16 |
walterbender |
In the picture Devin shared, it would be equal temperament since it is equal spacing |
| 03:16 |
pikurasa |
Sachiko: did you see riya's proposal? |
| 03:16 |
walterbender |
but it could be changed |
| 03:17 |
Sachiko |
Thanks! If we could "see" the difference of the scales by how 12 points are put on the circle, that would be nice, I think... |
| 03:17 |
pikurasa |
and could be changed arbitrarily or by a calculation (e.g. ratio) |
| 03:17 |
walterbender |
yes |
| 03:17 |
Sachiko |
Pikurasa, yes! I saw that. |
| 03:18 |
pikurasa |
Sachiko: +1 |
| 03:18 |
walterbender |
Sachiko, in IRC world, +1 means, "I agree" |
| 03:19 |
pikurasa |
it's similar to "a like" |
| 03:19 |
|
and probably why Google called their social network service "Google Plus"... |
| 03:19 |
Sachiko |
Oh, I see! |
| 03:20 |
pikurasa |
riyalohia_: does this sound okay to you? |
| 03:20 |
|
I just thought it needed something to make it a little less abstract |
| 03:20 |
riyalohia_ |
pikurasa, walterbender : when will the circle appear (I'm still confused) |
| 03:21 |
walterbender |
riyalohia_, I image that it is always present, along with the table |
| 03:21 |
|
and that you can edit in either place |
| 03:22 |
pikurasa |
riyalohia_: I suppose when you click on the temperament (widget) block (similar to the other widgets) |
| 03:22 |
walterbender |
riyalohia_, always present in the widget |
| 03:22 |
pikurasa |
I suppose that would be this image under "implementation in your proposal |
| 03:22 |
|
*"implementation" |
| 03:23 |
|
and, yes, always present |
| 03:23 |
|
bikram <bikram!~bikram202.63.242.180> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 03:23 |
walterbender |
riyalohia_, have you played with the mode widget? |
| 03:23 |
pikurasa |
it basically has the same info as the graph, but is a different representation of the information |
| 03:23 |
riyalohia_ |
I got it! |
| 03:24 |
walterbender |
Sachiko, have you seen the mode widget? |
| 03:24 |
riyalohia_ |
walterbender ,no! |
| 03:24 |
walterbender |
check it out... it also has a circle, but just done as an HTML table |
| 03:25 |
|
but it has some similarities |
| 03:25 |
pikurasa |
https://github.com/sugarlabs/m[…]#44-musical-modes |
| 03:26 |
Sachiko |
I think I am now checking this...:) Everything on my PC is translated into Japanese... but I think mode widget is "調の設定". RIght? > pikurasa |
| 03:26 |
riyalohia_ |
walterbender, pikurasa: the widget table already has too many entries, maybe we can add an auto scroll to make the circle visible? |
| 03:27 |
|
Sachiko has quit IRC |
| 03:27 |
pikurasa |
the temperament circle would need to be like a "high definition" version of the current mode widget |
| 03:27 |
walterbender |
I think the table is less useful as a UI element |
| 03:28 |
|
I suspect that the circle would be where the use would work and then call up the table as one form of reviewing |
| 03:28 |
pikurasa |
some of the same info could be "tooltips" when hovering over the circle |
| 03:29 |
|
walterbender: yes! |
| 03:29 |
walterbender |
so the UI is the circle and one alternative visualization is the table and the output is blocks |
| 03:29 |
|
and the blocks are used to change the internal table used to drive the synth |
| 03:29 |
|
Sachiko <Sachiko!~webchatrev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 03:30 |
walterbender |
make sense? |
| 03:30 |
|
Sachiko, http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]etings/2018-05-09 has what you missed while you were disconnected |
| 03:32 |
riyalohia_ |
walterbender , pikurasa, maybe we can add an extra button in the widget itself, the circle will appear by clicking on that button.? |
| 03:32 |
walterbender |
riyalohia_, sure... |
| 03:32 |
|
but maybe the button toggles between the circle and the table> |
| 03:32 |
riyalohia_ |
walterbender , +1 |
| 03:33 |
walterbender |
I suspect that most people will want to default to the circle |
| 03:33 |
pikurasa |
Sachiko: "Mode Widget" is カスタム音階...at least in the version on https://musicblocks.sugarlabs.org/ |
| 03:33 |
riyalohia_ |
I'll change my design proposal according to the circle. |
| 03:34 |
pikurasa |
and Set Mode is 調の設定 |
| 03:34 |
|
which I am sure is weird. :p |
| 03:34 |
walterbender |
"�怒�踴��喲�" |
| 03:34 |
|
is custom mode |
| 03:34 |
pikurasa |
walterbender: ?? |
| 03:34 |
walterbender |
oops... encoding bug |
| 03:34 |
|
one sec |
| 03:35 |
pikurasa |
what I typed matches what I see... |
| 03:35 |
walterbender |
カスタム音階 |
| 03:36 |
Sachiko |
Thank you Walter and Pikurasa. But... sorry to say this, but personally, if I could see the ratio and numbers in the table, that would be also quite easy to understand... Or "cent" would be written next to the point in the circle? Can I set that by putting the number? (not just dragging the point) |
| 03:36 |
walterbender |
Sachiko, yes... you should be able to see the numbers above the circle and edit them |
| 03:36 |
pikurasa |
Sachiko: The circle representation reinforces the graph representation. |
| 03:36 |
walterbender |
as hertz or cents or a ratio |
| 03:37 |
pikurasa |
It is not either or... it is both... multiple representations |
| 03:37 |
walterbender |
"if you don't understand something more than one way, you don't understand it" -- Minskey |
| 03:37 |
|
Minsky |
| 03:38 |
Sachiko |
I see.... if so, I think it's OK! I just was not sure how the design would be... In the table it's quite easy to see the both or 3 ways of expressions. But on the circle... isn't it difficult? |
| 03:39 |
walterbender |
Sachiko, there would be a box floating above the circle with those data |
| 03:39 |
|
Sachiko, the table is quite overwhelming unless you are used to looking at those data |
| 03:40 |
Sachiko |
I see... do you have clear image> Riya? Walter, Pikurasa, I see your points, too! |
| 03:40 |
walterbender |
Sachiko, I think we want the learner to get to the point where the table is the preferred interface |
| 03:40 |
pikurasa |
For those unfamiliar with the nature of pitch, the proportions would be hard to pinpoint with just the numbers |
| 03:40 |
walterbender |
but to start, a visual representation would be best, IMHO |
| 03:41 |
Sachiko |
I see! |
| 03:41 |
walterbender |
any more questions/comments for tonight/today? it is getting late here in Boston |
| 03:42 |
|
pikurasa has a baby, so he is used to not sleeping :) |
| 03:42 |
riyalohia_ |
walterbender, pikurasa , sachiko : the ratios for the traditional temperament are editable? |
| 03:42 |
pikurasa |
quite late... and baby just woke up |
| 03:42 |
|
riyalohia_: yes, but once edited they become custom |
| 03:42 |
walterbender |
riyalohia_, as soon as you edit them, then it because a custom temperament |
| 03:42 |
|
becomes |
| 03:43 |
riyalohia_ |
walterbender, pikurasa, maybe we can discuss this later (its quite late in Boston) |
| 03:43 |
walterbender |
riyalohia_, we've introduced enough changes for one meeting :) |
| 03:44 |
pikurasa |
riyalohia_: Please add this to your proposal. We can take a look and see if it is on the right track |
| 03:44 |
riyalohia_ |
walterbender, yes :) |
| 03:44 |
pikurasa |
riyalohia_: the proposal is otherwise very good. |
| 03:44 |
Sachiko |
I do think so, too! Great proposal! |
| 03:44 |
riyalohia_ |
pikurasa,Sachiko : thank you... I'll definitely add this to my proposal :) |
| 03:45 |
pikurasa |
teaches a lot of kids, so when I thought about it I suspected we needed one more way of showing the info. Let's spend a little more time and get something we can all agree on. |
| 03:45 |
|
riyalohia_: Thanks! Keep up the really great effort. |
| 03:45 |
|
Okay, I gotta' get back to family |
| 03:45 |
|
Cheers! |
| 03:45 |
|
bye |
| 03:45 |
walterbender |
good night. |
| 03:45 |
|
thanks everyone |
| 03:45 |
riyalohia_ |
pikurasa , thank you for the motivation :) |
| 03:46 |
walterbender |
#end-meeting |
| 03:46 |
meeting |
Meeting ended Wed May 9 03:46:00 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 03:46 |
|
Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-09T02:31:29.html |
| 03:46 |
|
Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]18-05-09T02:31:29 |
![http://openmusictheory.com/Gra[…]h-class-Space.jpg](http://openmusictheory.com/Graphics/postTonal/Pitch-class-Space.jpg){kind=link}