| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 22:00 |
meeting_ |
Meeting started Tue Dec 12 22:00:08 2017 UTC. The chair is Quozl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 22:00 |
|
Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting |
| 22:00 |
Quozl |
#topic quorum |
| 22:00 |
|
hello |
| 22:01 |
walterbender |
hi |
| 22:01 |
eohomegrownapps |
pokes his head in |
| 22:01 |
Quozl |
#agreed quorum |
| 22:01 |
|
#topic what we have been working on |
| 22:01 |
eohomegrownapps |
(am I meant to be here?) |
| 22:01 |
walterbender |
eohomegrownapps, you are welcome |
| 22:02 |
|
Quozl, I've been mostly working on administering GCI |
| 22:02 |
|
and a little Music Blocks and Turtle Blocks work on the side. |
| 22:02 |
eohomegrownapps |
me, mainly being a GCI 'student' |
| 22:02 |
walterbender |
Lots of student participation this year: almost 400!!! |
| 22:03 |
|
They have all learned (more or less) how to make a pull request |
| 22:03 |
|
and some, like eohomegrownapps, are making solid contributions |
| 22:03 |
|
a bunch of new sugar apps beginning to appear |
| 22:03 |
eohomegrownapps |
woah - looking at the GCI org list SL has by far the highest number of tasks completed |
| 22:04 |
walterbender |
and some work on cleaning up old apps: licenses, etc. |
| 22:04 |
Quozl |
I've been doing various pull request reviews, how to elicit the helpful GitHub response when it recognises the md5sum of a COPYING file, testing Sugar and tracking on Ubuntu 18.04 beta, Speak-55, Read-118.1, and the Paint empty canvas bug. |
| 22:05 |
eohomegrownapps |
walterbender: I wouldn't really describe my contributions as 'solid' - more polystyrene than concrete |
| 22:05 |
Quozl |
I've also been helping a contributor directly who apparently wants to learn privately; they have been testing various activities and finding they don't start any more. |
| 22:06 |
walterbender |
Quozl, I've been having lots of issues with JavaScript activities |
| 22:06 |
|
They seem to largely be broken in Sugar (but not Sugarizer, apparently) |
| 22:07 |
Quozl |
walterbender: yes, i noticed that last or or the year before. they mostly aren't cross-platform. |
| 22:07 |
walterbender |
It is big problem as many developers are self-selecting JavaScript |
| 22:07 |
|
and thinking that they are contributing to Sugar |
| 22:07 |
|
when they are not |
| 22:08 |
|
I think it largely has to do with the glue around the datastore and i18n |
| 22:08 |
|
but I am not 100% certain yet where all the problems lie. |
| 22:09 |
|
I've numerous work-arounds scattered through Music Blocks, for example, to keep it running outside of Sugarizer. |
| 22:09 |
Quozl |
walterbender: at heart, the problem is developers are developing without executing their code within Sugar? ;-) |
| 22:09 |
walterbender |
Quozl, I think that many new developers think that executing in Sugarizer is the same as in Sugar |
| 22:09 |
eohomegrownapps |
from the perspective of GCI, as one of those developers, I'd say what's deterring me from contributing in Python is lack of GTK3 knowledge - HTML is a much more 'common' skill than GTK application design |
| 22:10 |
Quozl |
eohomegrownapps: we're talking about javascript activities though. |
| 22:10 |
walterbender |
eohomegrownapps, agreed, which is why we created sugar-web |
| 22:10 |
|
but it seems to be forked in a way that breaks it in Sugar |
| 22:10 |
eohomegrownapps |
understood, just commenting on *why* there might exist a predisposition towards JS |
| 22:11 |
Quozl |
eohomegrownapps: i think the predisposition is that there are more people who can already code in javascript for a UI, compared to Python for a UI, especially as we only offer GTK as the UI layer. exception is libsugarize.so which wraps a typical X app. |
| 22:12 |
walterbender |
anyway, I will try to dig a bit into where the breakage is... |
| 22:12 |
eohomegrownapps |
is sugar-web https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-web? |
| 22:12 |
walterbender |
It seems that JS apps should run in Sugar, Sugarizer, and a vanilla browser |
| 22:12 |
|
it is a wasted opportunity if they do not. |
| 22:12 |
Quozl |
eohomegrownapps: yes, and sugar-web is also within sugarizer. |
| 22:13 |
walterbender |
where it was forked |
| 22:13 |
eohomegrownapps |
so the issue is that the sugar-web in sugarizer is out of sync with the sugar-web used in sugar itself? |
| 22:13 |
walterbender |
I think that is the core issue |
| 22:13 |
Quozl |
cross-platform development always requires a cross-platform developer. we had a cross-development environment and we attracted single-platform developers. ;-) |
| 22:14 |
walterbender |
and there are additional sugarizer layers being used that also cause problems outside of Sugarizer |
| 22:14 |
|
Quozl, it also requires paying attention... |
| 22:15 |
Quozl |
walterbender: but if the maintainer of the library doesn't want to support cross-platform development, then almost everything they do will break it. |
| 22:15 |
walterbender |
true. |
| 22:16 |
Quozl |
i've nothing further to add, and we did discuss a bit the second agend item; gci progress, so shall we call it a done meeting? |
| 22:16 |
walterbender |
sure... |
| 22:16 |
eohomegrownapps |
sorry, but just another question, if I may, |
| 22:16 |
Quozl |
eohomegrownapps: go ahead. |
| 22:16 |
eohomegrownapps |
where exactly does sugar-web end and sugarizer begin? |
| 22:17 |
Quozl |
eohomegrownapps: file boundary? |
| 22:17 |
eohomegrownapps |
more repo boundary |
| 22:17 |
|
are we even keeping the two separate? |
| 22:17 |
|
llaske <llaske!~llaske 2a01cb00074daf00dcf7b7133380c7df.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 22:18 |
eohomegrownapps |
something like git submodules |
| 22:18 |
Quozl |
eohomegrownapps: myself, i do not know. |
| 22:18 |
walterbender |
eohomegrownapps, I think submodules are the way to go, but llaske thinks otherwise and he is the Sugarizer maintainer |
| 22:19 |
eohomegrownapps |
llaske: thoughts? |
| 22:22 |
walterbender |
I wonder if he is really there or just his x-chat fired up |
| 22:22 |
|
llaske has quit IRC |
| 22:23 |
walterbender |
I guess we'll have to ask him to join us next time??? |
| 22:23 |
Quozl |
no worries. bit late over there. ;-) |
| 22:23 |
walterbender |
Quozl, maybe we can have a discussion specific to sugar-web sometime soon? |
| 22:24 |
Quozl |
walterbender: no objection, just that i don't know much about it myself. ;-) |
| 22:24 |
eohomegrownapps |
(time and revision dependent) I'd be keen to help |
| 22:24 |
Quozl |
eohomegrownapps: see what you can do to port a simple activity (small lines of code count) from sugarizer to sugar. |
| 22:25 |
|
eohomegrownapps: that will help identify what library support needs porting back to sugar. |
| 22:25 |
eohomegrownapps |
I'll try to do that |
| 22:25 |
|
I have a few simple sugarizer activities from last year |
| 22:25 |
|
(actually sugar-->sugarizer porting tasks) |
| 22:26 |
|
they use most features of sugar including datastore so that should be a good test |
| 22:27 |
|
in the meantime, I might try to brave a few Python Sugar tasks to 'actually contribute to Sugar'... |
| 22:27 |
walterbender |
:) |
| 22:27 |
|
eohomegrownapps, we are here to help with that. |
| 22:28 |
eohomegrownapps |
thanks - so far SL in general has been quite a friendly, helpful environment |
| 22:28 |
Quozl |
ever patient and friendly; i've nothing further for the meeting, shall we finish up? |
| 22:29 |
walterbender |
nothing more on this end |
| 22:29 |
Quozl |
eohomegrownapps: ? |
| 22:29 |
eohomegrownapps |
me neither; discussion's been useful |
| 22:29 |
Quozl |
#endmeeting |
| 22:29 |
meeting_ |
Meeting ended Tue Dec 12 22:29:52 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 22:29 |
|
Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-12T22:00:08.html |
| 22:29 |
|
Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]17-12-12T22:00:08 |