Time |
Nick |
Message |
19:03 |
meeting |
Meeting started Fri May 5 19:03:37 2017 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
19:03 |
|
Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting |
19:03 |
|
samsongoddy <samsongoddy!294f0706gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.41.79.7.6> has joined #sugar-meeting |
19:03 |
walterbender |
#topic GSoC/Outreachy |
19:04 |
GrannieB |
The link in the email didn't work. Had to get in differently! |
19:04 |
walterbender |
Just a quick update |
19:04 |
|
#link https://summerofcode.withgoogl[…]5544862897143808/ |
19:04 |
|
GrannieB, ^^ |
19:04 |
samsongoddy |
hello |
19:04 |
walterbender |
does that work? |
19:04 |
|
9 GSoC students |
19:05 |
GrannieB |
yep |
19:05 |
llaske |
It's really awesome, I guess it's the best number of students we had |
19:05 |
walterbender |
llaske, the most in quite a few years |
19:05 |
|
We also have one Outreachy student |
19:05 |
|
I am not sure what the link is for that one |
19:06 |
|
maybe this: |
19:06 |
|
#link https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreac[…]pted_Participants |
19:07 |
llaske |
There is 2 students on this link |
19:07 |
kaametza |
hi all, sorry I'm late |
19:07 |
walterbender |
llaske, They list the overlap with GSoC for some reason |
19:08 |
llaske |
okay |
19:08 |
walterbender |
kaametza, just updating everyone on GSoC |
19:08 |
ignacio |
How are you going to handle the two participants? It is the same project, right? |
19:08 |
|
ibiam <ibiam!294f0706gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.79.7.6> has joined #sugar-meeting |
19:08 |
ignacio |
(About outreach) |
19:08 |
walterbender |
FYI, we will have a group meeting of the GSoC participants every Monday in this channel at 13UTC |
19:08 |
kaametza |
thx walterbender reading above |
19:09 |
walterbender |
ignacio, we will morph Prachi's project |
19:09 |
|
and individual mentor/mentee tieams will meet hopefully on a daily basis |
19:09 |
|
In any case, we have a great set of projects |
19:09 |
|
and alas, a few disappointed applicants who also had great propsoals |
19:10 |
kaametza |
ignacio, walterbender lots of energy for Music Blocks! |
19:10 |
samsongoddy |
yeah |
19:10 |
walterbender |
and Sugarizer |
19:10 |
|
and Sugar |
19:10 |
kaametza |
an lots of good energy to all :D |
19:10 |
llaske |
sure |
19:10 |
walterbender |
a nice balance |
19:10 |
|
let's hope we make good progress |
19:11 |
kaametza |
overcomuniation seems to be a key component of sucessfull execution of projects |
19:11 |
walterbender |
We'll make sure that the interns communicate regularly with the community |
19:11 |
|
many (most) of the interns have been very active on IRC |
19:11 |
|
but we need to reciprocate :) |
19:12 |
kaametza |
would be nice to keep the propoer lists aware of the progress |
19:12 |
|
so that everyone can help out |
19:12 |
|
sugar-devel I mean |
19:12 |
walterbender |
kaametza, I will be asking everyone to join sugar-devel , but also to share a blog to the general community |
19:13 |
kaametza |
thx walterbender all learners will benefit |
19:13 |
walterbender |
+1 |
19:13 |
|
always learns a lot during GSoC |
19:14 |
GrannieB |
I'm interested in seeing the Music Blocks User Manual |
19:14 |
walterbender |
GrannieB, me too... |
19:14 |
GrannieB |
Also glad to see someone working on Sugar for the RPi |
19:14 |
kaametza |
that makes us 3! |
19:14 |
samsongoddy |
yeah that is nice too |
19:14 |
walterbender |
the students have already done some great work |
19:15 |
samsongoddy |
sorry i have been unavailable, been resting. |
19:15 |
walterbender |
there was a user student and survey to determine what confuses people about the current manual |
19:15 |
|
re RPi, lots of debugging/testing already |
19:15 |
GrannieB |
Maybe communicating just with sugar-devel isn't such a good idea. Some of us who aren't on that list would want to see what they are doing |
19:16 |
walterbender |
we will start off running |
19:16 |
|
GrannieB, I will be asking them to blog as well |
19:16 |
kaametza |
GrannieB, I suggest you suscribe to sugar-devel it's sugar's main list |
19:16 |
walterbender |
but it is important that they keep the devel community in a tight feedback loop |
19:17 |
kaametza |
+1 |
19:18 |
walterbender |
shall we go to the next topic? |
19:18 |
|
#topic mission statement |
19:19 |
|
Just wanted to recap that the motion that GrannieB made that I submitted to SLOB failed due to lack of votes |
19:19 |
|
3 in favor, 4 abstaining |
19:19 |
|
This is the second email vote in a row where many votes were not cast |
19:20 |
llaske |
:-( |
19:20 |
samsongoddy |
Is it possible to raise it again? |
19:20 |
kaametza |
I liked the mission proposed but proposed another |
19:20 |
|
"Sugar Labs (r) is a community-managed project whose mission is to support a collection of free/libre software tools that facilitates learners to discover, create, reflect, translate, share and appropriate such tools in creative and sustainable manners". |
19:20 |
sverma |
I've been super swamped with a research grant project at work...haven't kept up with motions. My apologies. |
19:20 |
GrannieB |
Could you call for a revote? Some SLOBs may not have noticed that it was actually a motion. |
19:20 |
walterbender |
It is of course everyone's prerogative to abstain, it would be really helpful to provide input to the discussion in any case. |
19:20 |
llaske |
+1 GrannieB |
19:20 |
kaametza |
walterbender, +1 |
19:20 |
GrannieB |
Use Walter's version ... it is better... more concise |
19:20 |
kaametza |
I did provide feedback |
19:21 |
|
but no feedback from my feedback |
19:21 |
|
besides james |
19:21 |
|
i reduce it from 2 sentences to 1 |
19:22 |
|
I detaled the sugar key concepts that were critical to our mission: |
19:23 |
|
free/libre software + community + support |
19:23 |
|
here it is again: " |
19:23 |
|
"Sugar Labs (r) is a community-managed project whose mission is to support a collection of free/libre software tools that facilitates learners to discover, create, reflect, translate, share and appropriate such tools in creative and sustainable manners". |
19:23 |
|
Motion: To adopt the fllowing mission statement: |
19:23 |
|
"Sugar Labs (r) is a community-managed project whose mission is to support a collection of free/libre software tools that facilitates learners to discover, create, reflect, translate, share and appropriate such tools in creative and sustainable manners". |
19:23 |
sverma |
based on what little I've been able to keep up with, it appears that we have a minor problem with the wordsmithing of statements, but a major problem with conflict resolution and consensus building. |
19:24 |
GrannieB |
Here is Walter's version: Revise the Sugar Labs mission statement to "Sugar Labs is a volunteer-run project whose mission is to reach global learners and educators with a collection of tools that enable them to explore, discover, create, and reflect in their local language. Sugar Labs distributes these tools freely and encourages its users to appropriate them, taking ownership and responsibility for their learning." |
19:24 |
kaametza |
GrannieB, we all read Walter version |
19:24 |
|
walterbender, was already for and it didn't pass |
19:24 |
GrannieB |
Some may not have |
19:25 |
kaametza |
that's how our community takes decisiions |
19:25 |
|
it's all well documented on the wiki |
19:25 |
|
:D |
19:26 |
GrannieB |
How about some SLOB member making a motion for a revote? |
19:26 |
walterbender |
sverma, an actions we should take regarding your observation? |
19:26 |
sverma |
In reading these, my confusion is with: Is Sugarlabs a project or an organization? |
19:26 |
llaske |
good point |
19:26 |
samsongoddy |
nice one |
19:27 |
kaametza |
sverma, we are a project from the SFC |
19:27 |
|
still, we are also an "organization" in the general use of the word |
19:28 |
|
we are a community-managed project |
19:28 |
llaske |
I think organization is better |
19:28 |
kaametza |
whose mission is to support a collection of free/libre software tools that facilitates learners to discover, create, reflect, translate, share |
19:28 |
sverma |
kaametza: To me, SFC is simply a legal entity that we use to have legal and fiscal standing. SFC doesn't do anything else for Sugarlabs. They don't code, they don't design, they don't determine th edirection of the project. They are like a bank and law offices folded into one. |
19:28 |
walterbender |
doesn't understand the distinction in this context |
19:28 |
kaametza |
llaske, better or not is irrelevant |
19:28 |
|
accuracy is vital for a mission |
19:28 |
|
we are a project |
19:29 |
sverma |
In my opinion, Sugarlabs is the organization, with Sugar as its project. SFC is is a bank. |
19:29 |
walterbender |
I would recommend we adhere to the word choice that the SFC imposes upon us |
19:29 |
llaske |
+1 sverma |
19:29 |
kaametza |
+1 walterbender |
19:30 |
|
we have an agreement with the FSC |
19:30 |
llaske |
Ooch I'm afraid it's not today that will have a mission |
19:30 |
kaametza |
llaske, one day the sun will shine :D |
19:30 |
sverma |
:-) |
19:30 |
GrannieB |
+1 for Sameer! |
19:30 |
llaske |
I think SFC don't care about the word project or organization |
19:31 |
kaametza |
hope the earth still rotates by then... |
19:31 |
sverma |
I think we'll go through the motions of mission, etc. without anything relevant if we continue to muddy the structure of org, project, etc. |
19:31 |
|
It will be garbage in, garbage out :-( |
19:31 |
kaametza |
llaske, we should care about the worf because they make what we are |
19:31 |
walterbender |
llaske, I beg to differ on your assertion |
19:31 |
kaametza |
*words |
19:31 |
walterbender |
they as very sensitive to these things |
19:32 |
GrannieB |
Not another month! For heaven's sake, why not just vote on Walter's mission so we can move on to getting 4-5 goals next month and maybe even some objectives after that! |
19:32 |
kaametza |
sverma, I really can't understand your point |
19:32 |
llaske |
+1 GrannieB |
19:32 |
kaametza |
GrannieB, please do read what I write |
19:33 |
|
I proposed another motion, and it has many days to get a second |
19:33 |
|
it was made by eamil |
19:33 |
|
*email |
19:33 |
|
GrannieB, please to participate check our protocols they are well documented on the wiki |
19:34 |
samsongoddy |
What i think is that, we don't have time. |
19:34 |
kaametza |
so, next topic? |
19:34 |
samsongoddy |
We need to vote fast |
19:34 |
|
so we can move ahead |
19:34 |
walterbender |
kaametza, with all due respect, making a second motion while the first one was still active was not very helpful |
19:34 |
samsongoddy |
it is that simple |
19:34 |
kaametza |
walterbender, I didn't |
19:34 |
|
I did the motion 3 days after the 7 days :D |
19:34 |
|
it had already failed |
19:34 |
samsongoddy |
walterbender, can we vote here? |
19:35 |
walterbender |
samsongoddy, on what? I have not seen a motion seconded |
19:35 |
llaske |
We spent one year to try to find two sentences for our mission ! |
19:36 |
samsongoddy |
the one you proposed |
19:36 |
kaametza |
please do second it then, motion: To adopt the following motion: whose mission is to support a collection of free/libre software tools that facilitates learners to discover, create, reflect, translate, share |
19:37 |
|
sorry here it is again: Motion to adopt the following motion text: En Español: |
19:37 |
|
"Sugar Labs es un proyecto gestionado por la comunidad, cuya misión es apoyar una colección de herramientas de software libre que facilita a los estudiantes descubrir, crear, reflejar, traducir, compartir y apropiarse de tales herramientas de maneras sostenibles y creativas". |
19:37 |
|
in ENglisH: "Sugar Labs is a community-run project whose mission is to support a collection of free/libre software tools that facilitates learners to discover, create, reflect, translate, share and appropriate such tools in sustainable and creative manners". |
19:38 |
|
llaske, I'm proposing one sentence, you don't like it? |
19:38 |
GrannieB |
No good. Addresses only software. Too limiting |
19:39 |
llaske |
+1 GrannieB |
19:39 |
walterbender |
llaske, and what were your objections to the previous motion? |
19:40 |
|
the one circulated by email? |
19:40 |
kaametza |
GrannieB, free/libre software is all what Sugar labs is about |
19:40 |
GrannieB |
Also fails to mention educators... they are the real key to getting the tools used |
19:40 |
llaske |
I'm agree with your version but I think we're an organization, not a project. |
19:40 |
kaametza |
GrannieB, learners and educators are the same this days |
19:40 |
|
:DS |
19:41 |
|
let's avoid that horrible distintion |
19:41 |
sverma |
walterbender: FWIW, i didn't read your motion, but I'm ok with it, now that I've read it. The issue of org vs project semantics can be addressed separately. |
19:41 |
kaametza |
sverma, I would also like an opion to my proposal |
19:41 |
llaske |
Okay so let's second the motion so we'll have a mission |
19:42 |
kaametza |
samsongoddy, you as well and of course ignacio who is not here today |
19:42 |
GrannieB |
which mission??? |
19:42 |
sverma |
kaametza: I agree with GrannieB that it needs that second sentence on educators and learners. |
19:42 |
samsongoddy |
we have two mission statements? which one? |
19:42 |
kaametza |
sverma, let's agree to disagree on that then ;D |
19:42 |
ignacio |
is here, he's just really quiet |
19:42 |
GrannieB |
+1 sameer |
19:43 |
kaametza |
here is the motion proposed: "Sugar Labs is a community-run project whose mission is to support a collection of free/libre software tools that facilitates learners to discover, create, reflect, translate, share and appropriate such tools in sustainable and creative manners". |
19:43 |
walterbender |
did someone second kaametza 's motion? |
19:43 |
CanoeBerry |
Apologies to all I was unable to keep up with email while away working with schools in rural Mexico with http://kidsoncomputers.org for much of the past 2 weeks, and am trying to catch up + understand now. |
19:43 |
kaametza |
seems like llaske wanted to second? |
19:43 |
GrannieB |
Revise the Sugar Labs mission statement to "Sugar Labs is a volunteer-run project whose mission is to reach global learners and educators with a collection of tools that enable them to explore, discover, create, and reflect in their local language. Sugar Labs distributes these tools freely and encourages its users to appropriate them, taking ownership and responsibility for their learning." |
19:43 |
kaametza |
ignacio, I hope you had time to read it |
19:44 |
llaske |
I'm agree to second the GrannieB motion |
19:44 |
kaametza |
GrannieB, what are you doing? the board is trying to reach consensuss? |
19:44 |
GrannieB |
Thank you lionel |
19:44 |
kaametza |
GrannieB, you cant make motions |
19:44 |
|
you are not an SLOB |
19:45 |
ignacio |
Hey GrannieB, do I know you? (not being rude, I'm just not familiar with your nick :P) |
19:45 |
GrannieB |
I believe any Sugar-Labs member can make a motion for consieration by the SLOB |
19:45 |
sverma |
ignacio: GrannieB = Caryl Bigenho |
19:45 |
ibiam |
i don't think she's making a motion she's jsut reminding us of the mission statement |
19:45 |
ignacio |
Oh, awesome |
19:46 |
walterbender |
we have a motion on the table. We need to deal with one at a time |
19:47 |
|
if no one will second kaametza's motion then we can move on, |
19:47 |
GrannieB |
Actually, all Sugar Labs members have been able to make motions. I have done it before as have others who were not members of SLOB |
19:47 |
samsongoddy |
+1 |
19:49 |
walterbender |
I guess the motion is not going to be seconded. |
19:49 |
samsongoddy |
Revise the Sugar Labs mission statement to "Sugar Labs is a volunteer-run project whose mission is to reach global learners and educators with a collection of tools that enable them to explore, discover, create, and reflect in their local language. Sugar Labs distributes these tools freely and encourages its users to appropriate them, taking owners |
19:49 |
|
hip and responsibility for their learning." |
19:49 |
|
I second this motion |
19:50 |
sverma |
walterbender: let's move on. |
19:50 |
walterbender |
samsongoddy, point of procedure: you cannot second your own motion. |
19:50 |
llaske |
I second the samsongoddy motion |
19:50 |
ignacio |
I get so lost during this meetings. So many things happen at once |
19:51 |
|
I second samsongoddy's motion as well |
19:51 |
walterbender |
shall we vote? |
19:51 |
kaametza |
ignacio, we are lost here |
19:51 |
|
-1 |
19:52 |
|
it's unaccurate |
19:52 |
|
and it's not doable |
19:52 |
|
and too long |
19:52 |
|
we can't reach learners |
19:52 |
|
please explain how you can do that? |
19:53 |
walterbender |
any more votes? |
19:53 |
GrannieB |
So, you have Samson, Ignacio, and Lionel on board so far. How about the rest of youl |
19:54 |
|
This is the same as walter's motion |
19:54 |
sverma |
What are we voting on? |
19:54 |
kaametza |
sverma, please do pay attention to sugar labs important decisions :D |
19:54 |
GrannieB |
Samson has re-submitted Walter's motion |
19:55 |
sverma |
Did we close kaametza's motion? |
19:55 |
GrannieB |
yes. Walter did. |
19:55 |
kaametza |
sverma, it haven't been seconded |
19:55 |
GrannieB |
It got no votes except for hers |
19:55 |
|
OK. no second... same thing |
19:55 |
kaametza |
GrannieB, you are confussing sverma |
19:55 |
sverma |
ok. Just checking. So we have samsongoddy's vote on the floor now, yes? |
19:56 |
samsongoddy |
yes |
19:56 |
walterbender |
sverma, yes |
19:56 |
sverma |
+1 |
19:56 |
walterbender |
+1 |
19:56 |
llaske |
Halleluia ! |
19:56 |
ibiam |
finally |
19:57 |
samsongoddy |
we can now move on |
19:57 |
walterbender |
llaske, are you going to vote? |
19:57 |
GrannieB |
finally! |
19:57 |
walterbender |
anyone else? |
19:57 |
llaske |
+1 |
19:57 |
walterbender |
samsongoddy, you can vote on your motion |
19:57 |
samsongoddy |
+1 |
19:57 |
walterbender |
looks like it passes |
19:57 |
kaametza |
congrats walterbender hope we can fulfill |
19:58 |
walterbender |
but it would be goof to hear from CanoeBerry and ignacio |
19:58 |
kaametza |
next topic? |
19:58 |
|
2017 elections |
19:59 |
walterbender |
kaametza, I think the objectives (next step) will determine what gets done. |
19:59 |
kaametza |
we need to define when are the next election going to be |
19:59 |
ignacio |
+1 as I said before |
19:59 |
kaametza |
i put the topic in todays agenda |
19:59 |
walterbender |
ignacio, OK |
19:59 |
|
vote passes 5 yes; 1 no; 1 abstain |
19:59 |
|
#topic 2017 elections |
19:59 |
|
kaametza, the floor is yours |
20:00 |
kaametza |
so, according to the wiki documentation we should have elections every august... |
20:00 |
|
I proposed to change then to december but it didn't get seconded |
20:00 |
|
so what do you all think? I also wanted to ask everybodys opinion about reducing the board to 5 seats |
20:01 |
|
so first decision when |
20:01 |
|
anyone> |
20:01 |
|
Shall we have elections on August? |
20:02 |
|
We are just in time to call for candidates and prepare the timeline |
20:02 |
ignacio |
I'm willing to leave SLOBs if someone with more dedication can take care of "the seat", since I haven't been that much active lately (--just saying--) |
20:03 |
kaametza |
thx ignacio but that would be another subject |
20:03 |
|
what we as election committe and Slobs need to decide is if we want to move the elections from August to Decmeber or not... |
20:04 |
|
So that we can make the annuncement in the communiy and give enough time for candidates to prepare there proposals |
20:05 |
walterbender |
I have no opinion on when we hold the elections |
20:05 |
|
but we should stick to whatever we decide |
20:05 |
kaametza |
so we shall follow wiki's documentation |
20:06 |
|
samsongoddy has quit IRC |
20:06 |
walterbender |
kaametza, It is fine to propose a change if there is some reason |
20:06 |
kaametza |
walterbender, would you like to propose a change? |
20:07 |
walterbender |
no |
20:08 |
kaametza |
ok, so will coordinate with the comitte to propose a time line |
20:08 |
|
thanks everyone |
20:08 |
|
ibiam has quit IRC |
20:09 |
GrannieB |
Gotta go test out my snorkle gear... see you all! |
20:09 |
walterbender |
Any other topics for today? |
20:10 |
|
thanks everyone |
20:10 |
GrannieB |
Just one... |
20:10 |
walterbender |
GrannieB, ... |
20:10 |
GrannieB |
Before going on to objectives, usually goals come after a mission statement. Then specific objectives to meet those goals are proposed. Goals are long range … like for several years. Objectives are more short term… like a year or less. I sent out some goals based on a statement Walter made. He added a fifth one but someone went in and erased it all and I was only able to find the first four. I'll send them out again and |
20:11 |
walterbender |
GrannieB, +1 |
20:11 |
|
I think we have a lot of progress on the goals (and objectives) already |
20:11 |
|
hopefully we can get them defined quickly |
20:12 |
|
and we will get timely feedback from SLOB :) |
20:12 |
|
anyone else? |
20:12 |
llaske |
no, thanks |
20:12 |
walterbender |
OK. |
20:12 |
sverma |
thx |
20:12 |
icarito |
you know, if it is the case that the public can post motions, then let me make the motion and kaametza second it |
20:13 |
walterbender |
See some of you at 13:00 on Monday :) |
20:13 |
llaske |
yep |
20:13 |
icarito |
we really have crappy rules |
20:13 |
|
sverma has quit IRC |
20:13 |
|
llaske has quit IRC |
20:13 |
|
GrannieB has quit IRC |
20:13 |
walterbender |
icarito, It is my understanding, possibly wrong, that anyone can suggest a motion, but the formal motion should be made by a board member. |
20:14 |
|
I am personally fine either way |
20:14 |
icarito |
it's unclear who motioned what and seconded what |
20:14 |
|
but I'm glad you're all happy ;-) |
20:15 |
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perhaps it's time to implement something like http://loomio.org/ |
20:17 |
walterbender |
icarito, +1 |
20:18 |
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maybe we can get to the point where we don't need SLOB as an entity at all. |
20:18 |
icarito |
maybe |
20:19 |
walterbender |
icarito, It would be better (IMHO) if we could self-organize around topics and people interested in the topics. |
20:20 |
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but we should end this meeting and kick this idea around in email. |
20:20 |
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#end-meeting |
20:20 |
meeting |
Meeting ended Fri May 5 20:20:30 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
20:20 |
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Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-05T19:03:37.html |
20:20 |
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Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]17-05-05T19:03:37 |