| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 19:02 |
meeting |
Meeting started Fri Dec 2 19:02:17 2016 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 19:02 |
|
Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting |
| 19:02 |
walterbender |
I have a few quick updates to report |
| 19:02 |
|
#topic GCI |
| 19:02 |
|
When last we met, we had agreed to apply to GCI |
| 19:03 |
|
We go in again this year. |
| 19:03 |
|
We have 112 students participating so far (after only 4 days) |
| 19:03 |
samsongoddy |
wow |
| 19:04 |
walterbender |
and we have 35 mentors!!! |
| 19:04 |
|
it has been really great to have so much support from the community |
| 19:04 |
samsongoddy |
yeah |
| 19:05 |
walterbender |
lots of time left to suggest tasks so please don't hesitate to contact me with your ideas. |
| 19:05 |
|
any questions/comments ? |
| 19:06 |
samsongoddy |
walter the tasks i uploading about sugarizer wiki, did you upload it? |
| 19:06 |
walterbender |
FWIW, some old faces, many new. A nice mix of experience |
| 19:06 |
|
samsongoddy: not yet |
| 19:06 |
samsongoddy |
okay |
| 19:06 |
walterbender |
I was expecting Lionel to do that |
| 19:08 |
|
#topic i18n |
| 19:08 |
|
We have a translator working on Guarani in .PY |
| 19:08 |
|
samsongoddy has quit IRC |
| 19:08 |
walterbender |
making good progress for us |
| 19:08 |
|
samsongoddy <samsongoddy!a99f795d gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.169.159.121.93> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 19:09 |
samsongoddy |
what did i miss? |
| 19:09 |
|
i am having internet problem |
| 19:09 |
walterbender |
you can follow the work in the PO files |
| 19:09 |
samsongoddy |
PO files? |
| 19:09 |
walterbender |
samsongoddy: you didn't miss anything |
| 19:10 |
|
samsongoddy: the PO files we use to store translations |
| 19:10 |
samsongoddy |
oh |
| 19:10 |
|
andresaguirre <andresaguirre!~webchatrev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 19:12 |
walterbender |
hi andresaguirre |
| 19:12 |
samsongoddy |
anymore things to talk about GCI? |
| 19:12 |
walterbender |
samsongoddy: I think we are on to the next topic |
| 19:13 |
samsongoddy |
what topic? |
| 19:13 |
|
sorry i didn't follow up! i was logged out from IRC |
| 19:13 |
walterbender |
there is another i18n proposal for getting turtle translated for some potential workshops in Nigeria next spring |
| 19:13 |
|
llaske <llaske!~user7422AVelizy-152-1-8-84.w90-62.abo.wanadoo.fr> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 19:14 |
walterbender |
we haven't got all the details together yet, but we will send email when it is more formalized |
| 19:14 |
|
hi llaske |
| 19:14 |
|
we now have a quorum :) |
| 19:14 |
samsongoddy |
Yeah |
| 19:14 |
andresaguirre |
hi!!! |
| 19:15 |
walterbender |
llaske: question for you re i18n and sugarizer |
| 19:15 |
llaske |
sorry to be late |
| 19:15 |
CanoeBerry |
Hi All |
| 19:15 |
samsongoddy |
two languages |
| 19:15 |
CanoeBerry |
Ditto |
| 19:15 |
walterbender |
are you using PO files as an intermediary to the locale.ini file? |
| 19:15 |
|
^^ llaske |
| 19:16 |
llaske |
no I'm using directly locale.ini |
| 19:16 |
|
both files are too different |
| 19:16 |
walterbender |
llaske: we have scripts to migrate from PO to locale.ini |
| 19:16 |
llaske |
so no I'm using directly locale.ini |
| 19:17 |
walterbender |
the advantage is that we maintain a consistent and supported workflow for our translators |
| 19:17 |
|
but we can discuss this after the meeting |
| 19:17 |
tony_ |
Why do we need translators? |
| 19:17 |
llaske |
yes sure |
| 19:18 |
walterbender |
tony_: why? so we can get translations |
| 19:18 |
|
tony_: a translator could be a kid, a teacher, a community member, etc. |
| 19:18 |
tony_ |
If we have a deployment where the language is used, the students know the language |
| 19:18 |
walterbender |
tony_: do they know English too? |
| 19:19 |
tony_ |
English or Spanish or French or .... |
| 19:19 |
walterbender |
tony_: I don't understand where you are going with this? |
| 19:19 |
tony_ |
If we need translation to Guarani find a deployment where it is spoken. Then they only have to worry about how to translate the source text to their own language |
| 19:20 |
|
For example, Rwanda has a nation of Kinyarwanda speakers. How many are on translate.sugarlabs.org? |
| 19:20 |
walterbender |
tony_: You are conflating the need for PO files and the need to work from t.sl.o |
| 19:21 |
|
they are not codependent |
| 19:21 |
tony_ |
I have written a sugar activity Lion which enables a native speaker to provide the translation on their laptop. |
| 19:22 |
|
This activity produces a po file which can be used locally and transmitted back to translate.sugarlabs.org |
| 19:23 |
walterbender |
tony_: and... how is that an argument against having PO files? |
| 19:24 |
tony_ |
There is no argument about having the files only about where they originate |
| 19:24 |
walterbender |
tony_: IMHO, generating them at the source is most efficient (but obviously not required) |
| 19:25 |
|
tony_: as far as how they get translated, we need to be opertunistic |
| 19:25 |
tony_ |
if we don't have a deployment of Sugar using the language, what is the point? |
| 19:26 |
walterbender |
tony_: we have lots of guarani users in PY |
| 19:26 |
|
it was an effort driven from PY |
| 19:26 |
tony_ |
Then getting a po file for that language should be easy |
| 19:27 |
walterbender |
anyway, we should take this off line and keep the meeting moving |
| 19:27 |
|
any other i18n questions/comments? |
| 19:27 |
tony_ |
ok - we are good at putting things off |
| 19:27 |
walterbender |
tony_: I don't understand. Is there a proposal on the table? |
| 19:28 |
|
can you frame your opinion about PO files in a motion? |
| 19:28 |
tony_ |
No, I think you sense my frustration. In a year on this board I see no change in Sugar Labs. |
| 19:28 |
|
Of course, but it will be deferred. |
| 19:28 |
|
Claudia_ <Claudia_!~webchatrev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 19:29 |
Claudia_ |
hi |
| 19:29 |
walterbender |
tony_: I hear you but I don't see how this i18n issue factors into the change discussion |
| 19:29 |
|
hi Claudia_ |
| 19:29 |
tony_ |
As you know when we considered a translation manager, I hoped the manager would reach out to deployments and to encourage them to undertake the task in the spirit of constructive learning |
| 19:30 |
Claudia_ |
got confused by the 15 EST |
| 19:31 |
walterbender |
tony_: I see that happening in part at least, guarani being case in point |
| 19:31 |
|
chris has been encouraging PY to move forward and now they are |
| 19:32 |
|
but they chose to hire a translator as opposed to doing it in a more distributed fashion |
| 19:32 |
tony_ |
Why? |
| 19:33 |
walterbender |
because they thought (1) it would happen faster (2) more consistent (3) more accurate (4) more to the standard and expectation of the funding sources |
| 19:33 |
tony_ |
However, not support learning |
| 19:33 |
walterbender |
and other reasons as well I don't recall of the top of my head |
| 19:33 |
|
tony_: You don't need to sell me on the idea of having the kids do it themselves |
| 19:34 |
|
but there are tradeoffs and they chose a different path |
| 19:34 |
|
for their own reasons |
| 19:34 |
tony_ |
At the end of the day, they will decide that Windows offers a better solution |
| 19:35 |
walterbender |
tony_: I don't think PyEduca will go with Windows, but I cannot sy for certain |
| 19:35 |
tony_ |
If Sugar Labs does not promote kids learning, who will? |
| 19:35 |
walterbender |
they, of all depaloyments I am aware of, seem more focused on constructionism |
| 19:35 |
|
they are writing a book about Sugar in PY |
| 19:36 |
tony_ |
How then can we help them succeed? |
| 19:36 |
walterbender |
tony_: i18n is not the only area of need |
| 19:37 |
|
we just did some Turtle/Music/Rodi/Butia workshops there and helped promote Sugar in the broader edu and gov sectors |
| 19:37 |
tony_ |
Indeed! I have tried to suggest that Sugar Labs assume responsibility for Sugar and provide versions for multiple platforms, not just the XO |
| 19:37 |
walterbender |
And they are very active in GCI |
| 19:37 |
tony_ |
This has resulted in a motion to table pending on Sameer to do a business analysis |
| 19:37 |
samsongoddy |
i think you are right about that walter |
| 19:38 |
walterbender |
tony_: that is why we started Sugar Labs |
| 19:38 |
|
and it is what I will advocate no matter what statement of purpose the community adopts |
| 19:38 |
tony_ |
Note: that 0.110 is a stable release not available even on an XO |
| 19:38 |
walterbender |
but in terms of process, I defer to the community |
| 19:38 |
tony_ |
This, in my experience, is a first |
| 19:39 |
walterbender |
tony_: yes... that is a problem |
| 19:39 |
tony_ |
So, we could provide a release of 0.110 that runs on 13.2.7 |
| 19:39 |
walterbender |
we are very shorthanded in that space and I don't know if martin was able to hand off that skill set to samP |
| 19:39 |
|
tony_: I think that is very important |
| 19:40 |
tony_ |
As Bernie Innocenti pointed out in Malaysia two years ago, this is the Achille's heel of Sugar |
| 19:40 |
walterbender |
\but I don't see it as a deliberate snub or policy decision |
| 19:40 |
tony_ |
No decision is always a decision |
| 19:40 |
walterbender |
peter robinson just released SoaS with the new system |
| 19:41 |
|
tony_: no action, not no decsion |
| 19:41 |
|
it is because we are shorthanded on the system/build team right now |
| 19:42 |
tony_ |
It requires Fedora 24 desktop to make the SOAS stick. Fedora has release Fedora 25 and Fedora 24 is no longer availble |
| 19:42 |
walterbender |
maybe what we as SLOB can do is address the question of how to get more resources forcused there |
| 19:42 |
tony_ |
Yes + |
| 19:42 |
walterbender |
so can we make that be the topic of the discussion ? |
| 19:42 |
|
Any suggestions? |
| 19:43 |
|
FWIW, I think we have GCI task for this |
| 19:43 |
|
checks |
| 19:43 |
tony_ |
Yes, we need to be able to make an SOAS image that can generate a livecd usb stick from the dd command. This stick must include the capability to install Sugar on Debian and Ubuntu |
| 19:43 |
walterbender |
not that that is a reliable path |
| 19:44 |
|
tony_: and we need to find someone who knows how to do that and is willing to do the work |
| 19:44 |
tony_ |
I believe the technical requirements exceed what we can reasonably expect from GCI participants |
| 19:44 |
|
Any volunteers? |
| 19:44 |
walterbender |
tony_: I would agree but then again, samP came from GCI :P |
| 19:45 |
|
tony_: I think this is the wrong place to ask. Maybe on Sugar Devel? |
| 19:45 |
tony_ |
Does he have the capability to create an SOAS image which is a livecd and contains install capability as do most current releases |
| 19:45 |
walterbender |
but we should ask here for ideas on how to get the resources we need to solve this probllem |
| 19:46 |
tony_ |
Yes, I don't expect that this capability is accessible in Rwanda but I can try |
| 19:47 |
walterbender |
tony_: and I will ask martin abente if he can help |
| 19:47 |
tony_ |
Great! |
| 19:47 |
walterbender |
I don't think we will get the cycles for this from peter robinson but no harm in asking |
| 19:47 |
tony_ |
I can get resources to test proposed solutions and possibly to help document the process going forward |
| 19:47 |
walterbender |
tony_: that would be a big help |
| 19:48 |
samsongoddy |
am i free to say something before the end of the meeting? |
| 19:48 |
walterbender |
satellit may have some documentation kicking around we can work from as well |
| 19:48 |
|
anything else on this topic before we move on? |
| 19:49 |
samsongoddy |
#marketing |
| 19:49 |
walterbender |
sure... |
| 19:49 |
|
#topic marketing |
| 19:49 |
samsongoddy |
i believe Sugar Labs should focus more of marketing our projects |
| 19:49 |
tony_ |
Before you market, you need a product |
| 19:50 |
samsongoddy |
Of course yes! |
| 19:50 |
|
But if i am not wrong you guys are discussing the lack of sugar builds |
| 19:50 |
|
Which is currently handled my SAM P |
| 19:50 |
tony_ |
The lack of a deployable Sugar |
| 19:51 |
samsongoddy |
but don't we should get more developers and users other than GCI ang GSOC? |
| 19:51 |
tony_ |
Sam has made a 0.110 release of Sugar which can support a development environment. It does not include the Record activity for example. |
| 19:52 |
samsongoddy |
Walter came up with a good marketing idea |
| 19:53 |
|
https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team |
| 19:53 |
|
What i have notice for my 2 - 3 years in Sugar Labs is that we don't keep our developers |
| 19:54 |
|
walterbender, are you there? |
| 19:55 |
Claudia_ |
I am here |
| 19:55 |
samsongoddy |
okay |
| 19:55 |
Claudia_ |
(I am not walterbender), but I want to say I am reading |
| 19:55 |
walterbender |
hi |
| 19:56 |
samsongoddy |
What i am saying is that we should be paying more attention to the Social Media |
| 19:56 |
walterbender |
sorry, i got a call |
| 19:56 |
samsongoddy |
I keep track of scratch, OLPC |
| 19:57 |
|
GCI and GSOC shouldn't be our only point to showcase sugar/sugarizer |
| 19:57 |
|
I think we need to come up with a good marketing plan for Sugar Labs |
| 19:58 |
walterbender |
samsongoddy: agreed... but what is the action plan? |
| 19:58 |
samsongoddy |
Social Media should be our main plan |
| 19:59 |
|
we need to look into that |
| 19:59 |
tony_ |
How is social media a plan? |
| 19:59 |
|
Do you mean we should promote Sugar via social media? |
| 19:59 |
samsongoddy |
yes |
| 19:59 |
|
Sugar Labs as a whole |
| 20:00 |
|
try to use promotions in the media |
| 20:00 |
Claudia_ |
samsongoddy: you mentioned developers, but are there other goals? |
| 20:00 |
tony_ |
As my proposed (but tabled) motion said - Sugar Labs develops and support Sugar as a Learning Platform. |
| 20:00 |
samsongoddy |
Yes potential users too |
| 20:01 |
|
not just developers |
| 20:01 |
tony_ |
IMHO, If Sugar Labs is to be meaningful, it must show that Sugar can be deployed indenpendent of OLPC and the XO. |
| 20:01 |
samsongoddy |
i came up with a plan before with dave concerning the media |
| 20:01 |
andresaguirre |
maybe a short video with the main objectives and results of sugarlabs |
| 20:02 |
samsongoddy |
yes, Claudia_ |
| 20:02 |
|
users are targeted too |
| 20:02 |
|
Something similar to the way scratch do |
| 20:03 |
Claudia_ |
we may need to think about: 1) what we need to accomplish our goal (which tony_ just mentioned) |
| 20:04 |
|
2) how social media could support (or not) those needs, so a better plan is developed |
| 20:05 |
samsongoddy |
yes |
| 20:05 |
|
https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team |
| 20:05 |
|
there is one plan already in that wiki |
| 20:06 |
|
this was my plan https://docs.google.com/docume[…]/edit?usp=sharing |
| 20:08 |
|
we can start from there! more ideas are welcome |
| 20:08 |
walterbender |
FWIW, I think we need a metric to evaluate our media campaign and would recommend measuring in terms of increases of the number of Sugar users |
| 20:08 |
|
hemant_kasat has quit IRC |
| 20:09 |
samsongoddy |
okay |
| 20:09 |
Claudia_ |
and sugar developers? or supporters? |
| 20:09 |
tony_ |
How would you estimate the number of Sugar users? I expect an increase in Rwanda this year of about 60,000 |
| 20:09 |
samsongoddy |
Claudia_, i don't understand |
| 20:09 |
|
also tony |
| 20:10 |
tony_ |
The Rwanda Ministry of Education has a plan to expand use of Sugar by something like this number. |
| 20:10 |
walterbender |
tony_: I don't know, but we need to be more rigorous if we are going to allocate resources to know that the allocation is doing something |
| 20:10 |
Claudia_ |
walterbender said we need a metric of success... increase # of users, and I added... and developers and supporters? |
| 20:11 |
walterbender |
+1 to Claudia_ |
| 20:11 |
samsongoddy |
okay |
| 20:11 |
|
yes |
| 20:11 |
walterbender |
tony_: maybe a better strategy is to work directly with the ministry in Rwanda to help them be successful? |
| 20:12 |
|
I am thinking in terms of limited resources |
| 20:12 |
tony_ |
I am doing the best I can |
| 20:12 |
samsongoddy |
Users, Developers and supporters should be the target |
| 20:12 |
tony_ |
At the moment we are looking at 13.2.5 with lack of a better tested and supported release |
| 20:12 |
Claudia_ |
If we go back to our major goal... we want to reach more children, but we also need more developers for the software/platform and more mentors to support children |
| 20:12 |
walterbender |
tony_: I realize and appreciate it |
| 20:12 |
samsongoddy |
walterbender, tony_, Claudia_, did you all see the doc? |
| 20:12 |
tony_ |
Yes |
| 20:12 |
walterbender |
tony_: let me express a hypothesis |
| 20:13 |
ignacio |
hi everyone |
| 20:13 |
Claudia_ |
samsongoddy: yes |
| 20:13 |
samsongoddy |
hi man |
| 20:14 |
Claudia_ |
I think that is a plan for how to implement... social media manager + email account, etc |
| 20:14 |
walterbender |
the furtherance of Sugar users/developers/supporters/advocates in Rwanda would be better served by direct provision of support to the MoE in terms of release management than in a social media campaign |
| 20:14 |
Claudia_ |
but what is the goal of the social media campaign? |
| 20:14 |
samsongoddy |
i think walter's project is doing it too. |
| 20:14 |
walterbender |
this is just a strawman ^^ tony_ |
| 20:14 |
tony_ |
Walter +1 |
| 20:15 |
|
Interestingly, TurtleArt is including in the new official curriculum in Rwanda |
| 20:15 |
Claudia_ |
great |
| 20:15 |
samsongoddy |
the goal of the social media campaign is to let the world know that is going on in Sugar Labs |
| 20:15 |
|
wow great |
| 20:15 |
|
llaske_ <llaske_!~chatzillaAVelizy-152-1-8-84.w90-62.abo.wanadoo.fr> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 20:16 |
walterbender |
tony_: nice |
| 20:16 |
|
tony_: next up: Music Blocks :) |
| 20:16 |
|
tony_: maybe I should try to join you in RW for a workshop sometime |
| 20:16 |
samsongoddy |
IAM foundation is doing something similar to what i am saying too |
| 20:16 |
tony_ |
You may want to think about a Turtle Art day in Kigali if you can arrange to get to Nigeria |
| 20:17 |
walterbender |
tony_: happy to do it.... I tried many times to work with OLPC to arrange it to no avail |
| 20:17 |
samsongoddy |
yes walter |
| 20:17 |
|
that would be good |
| 20:17 |
|
so that after doing it in Nigeria, we can head straight to kigali |
| 20:18 |
walterbender |
samsongoddy: when is the next SEED event? |
| 20:18 |
samsongoddy |
walterbender, are you the one tweeting all those tweets |
| 20:18 |
|
Well i am not sure yet |
| 20:19 |
|
but it should be around march and april |
| 20:19 |
walterbender |
OK |
| 20:19 |
|
I need to know pretty far in advance to work around my Miami commitments |
| 20:19 |
|
but I will do it |
| 20:20 |
|
and we can coordinate with Tony re kilagli |
| 20:20 |
|
kigalii |
| 20:20 |
tony_ |
Yes |
| 20:20 |
samsongoddy |
But since we will be doing two workshops one in Lagos, and possible with SEED in Port Harcourt |
| 20:21 |
ignacio |
-is the next topic l10n?- |
| 20:21 |
samsongoddy |
I am not 100% certain that SEED will host the workshop anytime soon. Due to Nigeria economical problems |
| 20:22 |
|
Schlumberger is really affected my the fallen oil price |
| 20:22 |
Claudia_ |
I need to go by 3:30 |
| 20:22 |
samsongoddy |
So we will kick of lagos, then if SEED will host the workshop in Port Harcourt we will join them |
| 20:23 |
|
TymonR <TymonR!~Tymondgc79.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 20:23 |
TymonR |
hello |
| 20:24 |
samsongoddy |
i made contact with the SEED team in Port Harcourt, they said they will give us the platform to do the TA day. But they won't cover hotel cost |
| 20:25 |
|
the SEED collaboration workshop is a week program with over 50 schools |
| 20:25 |
|
All they do is Scratch and Arduino |
| 20:25 |
|
they stop doing turtle art, since claudia_ was no longer coming to Nigeria |
| 20:28 |
walterbender |
I need to go too... |
| 20:28 |
|
I have to get to the airport |
| 20:29 |
CanoeBerry |
Election & other topics to follow... |
| 20:29 |
walterbender |
I am hoping we cna sort out the election and vision issues by email with help from sverma and dave |
| 20:29 |
samsongoddy |
okay bye! i will bring up a goal for the marketing |
| 20:29 |
tony_ |
bye |
| 20:29 |
sverma |
Ok |
| 20:29 |
|
tony_ has quit IRC |
| 20:30 |
walterbender |
#end-meeting |
| 20:30 |
meeting |
Meeting ended Fri Dec 2 20:30:07 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 20:30 |
|
Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-02T19:02:17.html |
| 20:30 |
|
Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]16-12-02T19:02:17 |