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#sugar-meeting meeting, 2016-05-06 16:02:18

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16:02 meeting Meeting started Fri May  6 16:02:18 2016 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:02 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
16:02 walterbender Alas, only three SLOB members here at the moment
16:02 We have a lot to cover
16:03 The agenda is at https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/[…]utes#Agenda_items
16:04 #topic motion to pay for laboratoriosazucar.org domain
16:04 it has been discussed in brief in the email thread
16:04 cjl #link https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/[…]utes#Agenda_items
16:04 samsongoddy serious?? that why we are here because they couldn't vote by mail
16:04 noemu <noemu!~mariah@173-162-172-61-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
16:04 walterbender Also, Bernie could make that decision unilaterally
16:04 samsongoddy let just wait for the others,
16:04 noemu hello, mariah here
16:04 walterbender I will ask for an email vote
16:04 samsongoddy okay
16:05 walterbender any further discussion?
16:05 davelab6 in the end sebastian gave me his account details and i logged in and my company paid for it
16:05 walterbender davelab6, OK. thx
16:05 samsongoddy nice one dave
16:05 walterbender but it cou;d have/should have bee handled directly by the infrastructre team :P
16:06 which leads to #topic treasurer postion
16:06 cjl davelab6: Would it be possible to have it transferred, so when the time cimes for renewasl, it gets handled?
16:06 walterbender see https://docs.google.com/docume[…]OUEX0ICRUkOc/edit
16:06 cjl, I am certainly fine with that
16:07 has everyone read Caryl's motions (there are 4)
16:07 We have some outstanding open issues with two of the four
16:07 samsongoddy yeah me too
16:07 CanoeBerry2_ I just emailed some suggestions: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]6-May/018124.html
16:09 walter_ <walter_!~walter@146-115-134-246.c3-0.nwt-ubr​1.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com> has joined #sugar-meeting
16:09 walter_ oops. my computer crashed
16:09 I'm back
16:10 davelab6 cjl: seb can arrange it im' sure
16:10 cjl davelab6: That would begreat.
16:10 CanoeBerry2_ Just to repeat what`s in the above link, the Financial Manager proposal is moving in the right direction but premature in my opinion, until its mechanics are better understood.
16:11 icarito hi davelab6, arrange what?
16:11 walter_ CanoeBerry, I think the 3rd and 4th motions are fine
16:11 icarito btw seb=me ?
16:12 walter_ I think the spirit of the first motion is fine, but I am sure you have some details you'd like sorted out... that is why we have been asking for comments
16:12 walterbender has quit IRC
16:12 walter_ I am not sold on the 2nd motion, and have been awaiting asnwers to my questions
16:12 cjl icarito: transfer of registered domain name to "the right place".
16:12 walter_ is now known as walterbender
16:13 icarito ah just reading the backlog sorry
16:13 of course
16:13 davelab6 icarito: :)
16:13 cjl cool
16:13 walterbender maybe we can get into #1 and #2 off line
16:13 Ibiam <Ibiam!294f0706@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.79.7.6> has joined #sugar-meeting
16:13 walterbender shall we move on to Yoruba?
16:13 Ibiam hello everyone
16:13 davelab6 i think so
16:14 walterbender #topic Yoruba i18n proposal
16:14 tony37 Yoruba is motion 3?
16:14 CanoeBerry2_ walter_: agreed 3rd and 4th motions within GDoc are very helpful, and 2nd could have its mechanics cleaned up a bit too.
16:15 cjl detects lack of clarity
16:15 walterbender tony37, sorry. Yoruba is Topic 3
16:15 icarito adam such a long email..
16:15 walterbender It is clear we don't have consensus yet on the Treasurer motions
16:15 Cerlyn has quit IRC
16:16 kaametza hi everybody!
16:16 walterbender so we should discuss off line and get on with the other topics
16:16 samsongoddy hi kaametza
16:16 walterbender Has everyone reviewed the Yoruba proposal???
16:16 CanoeBerry2_ LinkÉ
16:16 icarito there are 4 slobs here has there been a vote on anything?
16:16 walterbender icarito, there are only three here
16:16 icarito ah I guess ClaudiaU_ is not online
16:17 tony37 Is there a url for Yoruba proposal as we are considering it?
16:17 Cerlyn <Cerlyn!~AndChat18@172.56.26.90> has joined #sugar-meeting
16:17 walterbender ClaudiaU_, is logged in by not actually here
16:17 tony37, I realize the link I posted in the agenda is only part of the proposal
16:17 I have sent it by email several times...
16:17 cjl spreadshhet here: https://drive.google.com/file/[…]M3o5R2ZSQUl3/view
16:17 walterbender will find it again
16:18 icarito while I love the meeting.sugarlabs.org IRC infrastructure and it has served us well, maybe SLOBS should consider a more agile voting mechanism, just a suggestion
16:18 kaametza it looks good, congrats samsongoddy and cjl
16:18 tony37 There has been a lot of amendments and discussion, so I want to be looking at the same page
16:19 walterbender https://docs.google.com/docume[…]/edit?usp=sharing
16:19 milestones and $$ begin on Page 3
16:19 tony37 Thanks
16:20 samsongoddy thanks walter
16:20 walterbender This is straight forward with the exception of the first Milestone
16:20 kaametza the only suggestion I nmade to Samson is to consider the initial $350 as finantial costs of the project, as there will be for example international transfer cost
16:20 walterbender we have never done it quite like this, but a case has been made that these additional overhead costs are necessary
16:21 Cerlyn has quit IRC
16:21 walterbender FWIW, we are trying to get some hardware to the i18n team in NI through other channels.
16:22 it has been a struggle :P
16:22 Any further discussion?
16:22 CanoeBerry2_ Is there an impact assessment, explaining how many children (or teachers, etc) might/will be impacted by this work over the coming 5 years, and if so can we get a link?
16:22 walterbender I will push for a vote by email as we don't have our quorum :(
16:22 Cerlyn <Cerlyn!~AndChat18@2607:fb90:1220:466a:4b3f:b082:57eb:5f5a> has joined #sugar-meeting
16:22 cjl I proposed the first Milestone to address pragmatic concerns that samsongoddy had about getting things going.
16:23 tony37 My concern is that we are setting a precedent by paying for translation as opposed to infrastructure to support localization
16:23 Ibiam what other cchannels are you talking about
16:23 walterbender Ibiam, some individual community members
16:23 cjl tony37: That precedent has already been set in the past.
16:23 walterbender tony37, we have set this precedent already
16:23 tony37 I am new and was not aware of that beyond the Aymara case
16:24 cjl Aymara L10n got about 20K words from Edgar
16:24 walterbender we have tried with, for example, gurani
16:24 tony37 Do we have a criteria for which languages will be elgible for payment
16:24 cjl tony37: Other proposals died aborning (e.g. Haiti)
16:24 kaametza walterbender, is Guarani
16:25 walterbender tony37, it is a judgment call in each case
16:25 icarito (many Aymara strings were translated by edgar as a volunteer initially)
16:25 cjl tony37: There were not fixed rules, but discussion.
16:26 walterbender back to CanoeBerry's question: we discussed the opportunity for Yoruba in NI as potentially unleashing more users
16:26 icarito it is necessary to pay translators or other team members to finish and polish the work
16:26 cjl The criteria were in general an active path to users, low coverage fo localizers (volunteer).
16:26 samsongoddy yeah about that
16:26 walterbender it is a major language group in a large country we'd like to target
16:26 but hard to say if in the end it will matter
16:26 icarito 80/20 rule comes to mind - polish is 80% of the time and is not as much fun
16:26 (the verb polish, not the language ;-)
16:26 walterbender we are in parallel doing some out reach
16:27 in the form of some workshops
16:27 in Lagos
16:27 samsongoddy that why i and walter is setting a workshop in NI to bring more users
16:27 walterbender but the details are still sketchy
16:27 davelab6 tony37: isnt the money from trip advisor FOR paying for translation, though, not general funds?
16:27 walterbender the i18n needs to be used to bootstrap
16:28 tony37 My understanding is the funds are to promote localization
16:28 walterbender davelab6, YES. but we welcome volunteers too :)
16:28 I defer to cjl to manage the balance
16:28 davelab6 right
16:29 cjl: what is your vote for the motion?
16:29 kaametza tony37, it actually says to create a fund to support translations of Sugar - but nobody seems interested on the fund creation
16:29 tony37 If we pay $4000 for Yoruba, can we say no to Sesotho or Hausa?
16:29 cjl davelab6: as laid out inthe top part of that message, I think I should be acting as an advocate for L10n proposals, not a voting member.
16:29 davelab6 tony37: sure can
16:29 tony37: why not?
16:30 walterbender tony37, I'd love to get Hausa too
16:30 tony37 Then there are five indigenous languages in the Philippines
16:30 walterbender it would be worthwhile to invest in f we have the funds, IMHO
16:30 tony37, we should be investing in those too
16:30 davelab6 tony37: write up the plan and pose a motion :)
16:30 tony37 Agreed, but in enabling localization by Sugar sites
16:30 samsongoddy ibiam is here, he can talk about the ibo language
16:30 davelab6 tony37: i dont see other languages as a reason to not do these ones
16:31 walterbender @tony37 there are 300+ in NI :P
16:31 davelab6, +1
16:31 icarito there are about 50 in peru, several of them with tens of thousands of speakers and many with XO laptops
16:31 tony37 Perhaps we can frame this as a pilot test
16:31 davelab6 tony37: this one can - if it goes well, i hope it will - serve as a reference/case study for more
16:31 tony37: raising money to pay for things is harder without positive case studies of past success
16:31 samsongoddy my primary was igbo and yoruba, because that were SL will get users
16:31 tony37 50 languages at $4000 each is more than we have funds
16:32 davelab6 tony37: we get more funds then
16:32 walterbender tony37, we need to start somewhere
16:32 davelab6 tony37: its only 200k
16:32 tony37 It is 1000 XOs
16:32 Ibiam the proposal for igbo language will come after the one for yoruba is granted
16:32 davelab6 tony37: right, its a small amount
16:32 samsongoddy according to our facebook page, our fans are in Port Harcourt(Igbo), Lagos(yoruba) and abuja(Hausa)
16:33 yes ibiam that is the plan
16:33 cjl tony37: I think you over-estimate the number of such circumstances where a "well-suited" language (potential user-base and path to deployment) meets a localizer.
16:34 tony37 If we have a deployment in a location with an indigenous language there will be speakers of that language
16:34 cjl tony37: I am in favor of driving towards bootstrapping, no question.
16:34 walterbender tony37, I think the idea here is to make an effort in Yoruba to encourage more pickup on Sugar in NI
16:35 cjl I do think getting Glucoase and Fructose should be priorities.  Let tehm do Honey.
16:35 Ibiam tony37, there is no deployment in Nigeria right now and i agree with walter
16:35 walterbender cjl, +1
16:35 tony37 I am ok with this if it is understood that we are paying for translation to get started and not to establish a way to go forward for all languages
16:35 walterbender tony37, +1
16:36 cjl tony37: I would agree with that.
16:36 davelab6 tony37: i think the new website can clarify that translation efforts may need to raise their own funds
16:36 Ibiam the only languages right now that we plan on translating are the most popular ones, which are just three
16:37 igbo, hausa and yoruba
16:37 davelab6 https://github.com/sugarlabs/w[…]9a0e4f7cb907ee899
16:37 walterbender any more discussion?
16:37 cjl davelab6: I'm researching potential funders or sourecs of volunteers in "digitally disadvantaged" languages.
16:37 davelab6 cjl: awesome!
16:37 CanoeBerry2_ Am confused about NI connection with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoruba_language É
16:37 is NI NicaraguaÉ
16:38 cjl NG?
16:38 Ibiam nope Nigeria
16:38 walterbender CanoeBerry2_, my mistake
16:38 CanoeBerry2_ OK!
16:38 walterbender NG
16:38 cjl Know your ISO-4166 codes people. . .
16:38 samsongoddy NG rather
16:38 icarito reading backlog, our router crashed... :-/
16:38 davelab6 lol
16:38 samsongoddy lolz
16:39 walterbender next topic
16:39 #topic GPLv3
16:39 tony37 Do we have a motion or will this be done by email?
16:39 walterbender tony37, yes
16:39 samsongoddy the voting will be via email
16:39 walterbender we have a motion and it will voted on by mail
16:40 tony37 Walter, will you submit the motion for voting?
16:40 walterbender has anyone read the GPLv3 thread?
16:40 tony37, yes... I will do it tonight
16:40 tony37 Thanks
16:40 icarito i thought davelab6 submitted a motion, do motions have to come from SLOBS members then>
16:40 ?
16:41 tony37 has quit IRC
16:42 davelab6 i thought motions had to be from members only
16:42 kaametza anybody counting the meetings assistance for SLOBS / no quorum for a monthly meeting is a shame
16:43 walterbender I will make motions by email
16:43 can we move on please
16:44 icarito just like to state that the only party who might have had an issue with GPLv3 (OLPCA) already mentioned they are fine with it (in the github discussion, comment by James Cameron)
16:44 OLPC OS already comes with a bunch of GPLv3 software including several activities
16:44 tony37 <tony37!~webchat@rev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
16:45 walterbender icarito, I will send a motion by email
16:45 icarito so it should be an easy motion to approve
16:45 :-)
16:45 davelab6 https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/[…]r_Labs/Governance doesn't specify anything about motions
16:45 walterbender there does not seem to be an other objections
16:45 CanoeBerry2_ Yes, lets move on.  At the same time many would appreciate a basic explanation as to why GPLv3 is better (and how/who it helps) from proponents on mailing list if they have time later?
16:45 walterbender davelab6, I agree
16:45 CanoeBerry2_, this was all spelled out in the various threads
16:46 we can reiterate in the motion with some links
16:46 #topic GSoC stpends
16:46 background
16:47 every year Google grants stipends of $500 for the mentors based on the number of projects
16:47 we decided the first year to put that money in the general funds
16:47 and have rolled that decision over in subsequent years
16:48 a mentor this year has asked that we revisit that decision
16:48 personally, I am fine with giving the option to keep the money to the mentors as they put in a lot of time and effort
16:49 would use the money to buy hardware for deployments (bypassing the SLOB process)
16:49 but we should discuss here...
16:49 </ background>
16:50 icarito I am that mentor - I have no problem with being public about it - it would be good if Sugar Labs acknowledged that our community includes volunteers in the field as opposed to other GSoC organizations -
16:50 walterbender icarito, not sure I understand what you are saying
16:50 davelab6 nor m
16:50 but i think eli would also appreciate the $500
16:50 cjl My take (FWIW) is that the money is the mentors. That first year the mentors all stepped up to donate and it has been nice that many have followed that fine example.
16:51 icarito sorry if I was not clear - the point is we need the funds
16:51 elih I know it would be a big help for me as well, davelab6 knows my situation but others may not.
16:51 This is my first real gig in free software and the learning that is happening in invaluable to me, so thanks Dave and Walter for the opportunity.  But, I am in a transition phase of my career without much income so anything would be life changing for me.
16:52 walterbender I am fine with letting the mentors distrubte the money as they see fit (and some of it may be put into the general funds if they decide on that too)
16:52 icarito we put a lot of volunteer time to Sugar and we need to be able to sustain it
16:52 thank you walter and SLOBs for considering it
16:53 walterbender I will write up a motion (via email again) :P
16:53 tony37 I would think this is a task for our finance manager. The money is intended to go to the mentors and so a mentor should be able to request if from the finance manager, the balance to the general fund.
16:53 walterbender two more topics...
16:54 tony37, moot for the moment, since we don't have a finance manager or agree as to the role of such a position
16:54 tony37 +1
16:54 walterbender in brief
16:54 kaametza tony37, to have a FM would only make sense if there was a yearly budget-fundraise in mind
16:54 walterbender #topic Google RISE
16:54 davelab6, pointed me to this program
16:55 https://www.google.com/edu/res[…]oogle-rise-awards
16:55 it looks great
16:55 but I think it is really for deployments, not for SL itself
16:55 icarito we have tried to get SFC to support deployment level work before - might be worth another try?
16:56 walterbender what I recommend is that on the ground teams apply and that we support those applications
16:56 we will need to talk to the SFC, agreed
16:56 maybe CanoeBerry2_ can talk to tony?
16:57 some deployments have their own entities already,
16:57 davelab6 tony37: back on the last topic, actually i dont get why there is a motion about this; i didn't agree with anyone that my mentor fee would go to the general fund, so i dont see how this is an issue :)
16:57 walterbender: that sounds good to me
16:57 walterbender davelab6, I think it is a bit more complicated than that
16:58 tony37 AFIK, the money goes to SugarLabs and SugarLabs has a policy that the money goes to the general fund
16:58 CanoeBerry2_ fwiw (on the prior point) GSoC specifies funds go to the "mentoring organization"
16:58 walterbender davelab6, I think (could be misremmbering) that Google gives the money to the orgs on behalf of the mentors)
16:58 icarito "RISE Awards are limited to not-for-profit
16:58                        organizations with charitable registration status or a fiscal sponsor" <= this is a limiting factor, do you thinkg Sugar Labs / SFC can be that organization or would we need to find a local sponsor?
16:59 davelab6 walterbender + CanoeBerry2_ aha :) well then this makes snese
16:59 thanks for clarifying
16:59 icarito it would be really helpful if Sugar Labs would be willing to be that organization
16:59 tony37 Is charitable registration in US?
17:00 icarito tony37, in any of the following countries ... (including USA)
17:00 davelab6 i think it makes sense for SL to stand in as an org for deployments that are not self-incorporated, but that might be against the RISE rules
17:00 walterbender tony37, not sure
17:00 CanoeBerry2_ 1-hour warning
17:00 icarito elegible countries include USA
17:00 citing from https://www.google.com/edu/res[…].html#!guidelines
17:01 walterbender CanoeBerry2_, can you please discuss this with Tony at the SFC? and report back?
17:01 the last topic is another motion to vote on... the vision statement
17:01 kaametza seems like a good #idea to celebrate the 10th anniversary of Sugar winning the rise award :D
17:01 walterbender email on that one too.
17:01 samsongoddy has quit IRC
17:01 tony37 There is a potetial applicant in Pakistan
17:01 walterbender tony37, I can imagine many of the deplyments you work with could be eligible
17:02 kaametza I been thinking to promote the production of 3 empowering Activities for the anniersary
17:03 walterbender anything else for today?
17:03 kaametza if anybody has ideasor would like to support please let me know
17:03 davelab6 kaametza: ?
17:04 kaametza: what do you menan '10th anniversary of Sugar winning the rise award'?
17:04 :)
17:04 kaametza this year Sugar will celebrate its 10th anniversay
17:05 davelab6 walterbender: i have a question that came up when i met with elih earlier this week
17:05 walterbender kaametza, SL began in 2008
17:05 davelab6 walterbender: the original interaction design work done by pentagram
17:05 CanoeBerry2_ walterbender: tony37: yes... Google RISE should be considered+promoted where we can.
17:05 kaametza I mean Sugar not Sugar Labs
17:05 davelab6 walterbender: i couldnt find any trace of the development work products online
17:05 walterbender: do you know if they were kept anywhere or have been lost?
17:06 kaametza so I was thinking we should put some effort to it
17:06 cjl davelab6: have you looked on d.l.o?
17:07 kaametza I proposed the MinEdu Peryu to fund the production of 3 empowering activities, but the goberment is changing this year and there is no way to get funding approved
17:07 davelab6 cjl: ?
17:07 kaametza: https://github.com/sugarlabs/w[…]3fd43d739d2ab149f :)
17:07 cjl dev.laptop.org
17:08 samsongoddy <samsongoddy!294f0706@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.79.7.6> has joined #sugar-meeting
17:08 davelab6 cjl: i mean UI diagram sketches, brainstorming notes, etc
17:09 kaametza davelab6, so I' looking for finding options
17:10 funding sorry my keyboard died recently
17:10 davelab6 kaametza: what is an empowering activity?
17:10 Ibiam has quit IRC
17:10 kaametza so reading the guidelines we might be able to apply
17:11 samsongoddy i am back
17:11 whats up
17:11 davelab6 kaametza: which guidelines :)
17:11 walterbender davelab6, I will try to find the original docs from Pentagram
17:11 Ibiam <Ibiam!294f0706@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.79.7.6> has joined #sugar-meeting
17:11 kaametza after months of research I have some key ppointer as to what information require for example young girls that are not getting at school
17:11 cjl davelab6: Google RISE
17:12 davelab6 cjl: got it
17:12 kaametza: i think its a great idea! :) i suggest to draft something on the wiki or in google docs or whatever :)
17:12 walterbender: awesome :D
17:13 kaametza I have a draft I can translate to share
17:13 davelab6 walterbender: are you thinking digital or physical files?
17:13 walterbender davelab6, both
17:13 I need to look... it was 10 years ago
17:13 tony37 Sorry, got to go, bye
17:13 tony37 has quit IRC
17:14 walterbender I need to go too... sorry
17:14 davelab6 all good
17:14 CanoeBerry2_ Thanks All
17:14 walterbender thanks...
17:14 samsongoddy bye!!
17:14 davelab6 walterbender: eli and i hope to see the phyiscal ones at wiki weekend if possible :D
17:14 walterbender we covered a lot of grund
17:14 davelab6, I will do my best
17:15 icarito first sugar-related bug in d.l.o is 10 years ago at 2006-06-14
17:15 davelab6 walterbender: no pressure! :)
17:15 icarito http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/2
17:15 elih anything from pentagram on UI animation would be interesting to me :)
17:15 samsongoddy hello walter i just sent you a private message
17:15 walterbender icarito, I misunderstood. Sugar development began in 2005. Sugar Labs began in 2008
17:18 CanoeBerry2_ Next SL board mtg here Friday June 3rd 16:00 UTC? Lets try for a legal quorum then!
17:18 icarito walterbender, found first commit! https://github.com/sugarlabs/s[…]s/master?page=217 - April 19th 2006
17:21 davelab6 has quit IRC
17:22 CanoeBerry2_ has quit IRC
17:23 walterbender #end-meeting
17:23 meeting Meeting ended Fri May  6 17:23:15 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
17:23 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-06T16:02:18.html
17:23 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]16-05-06T16:02:18

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