| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 21:03 | meeting | Meeting started Mon Jul 20 21:02:59 2015 UTC. The chair is tch__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 21:03 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting | |
| 21:03 | tch__ | Hello eveyone |
| 21:03 | gonzalo__ | plarke, every one help |
| 21:03 | samdroid | g'day |
| 21:03 | gonzalo__ | hi samdroid :) |
| 21:04 | samdroid | so we start the meeting? |
| 21:04 | gonzalo__ | yes |
| 21:04 | tch__ | well, basically, this first meeting is an "informal" one :) but the topics are: 1. what do we and deployments want for 0.108 and 2. when do we want it? (sounds like this http://www.quickmeme.com/What-[…]e-Want/?upcoming) |
| 21:05 | gonzalo__ | :) |
| 21:05 | tch__ | I would also like to start talking about the previous cycle, |
| 21:06 | does anybody wants to make comments? (regarding the cycle itself, e.g, was it too long, too short, whatever) | |
| 21:06 | walterbender | seems like from the tech POV you guys did a great job |
| 21:06 | samdroid | it was pretty nice |
| 21:07 | gonzalo__ | honestly, we achieved more than i expected |
| 21:07 | tch__ | walterbender, I feel though, we had _very_ little feedback from the deployments though, except for german who helped us with the tests, |
| 21:07 | walterbender | yes |
| 21:07 | samdroid | +1 |
| 21:07 | walterbender | I was about raise that point |
| 21:07 | gonzalo__ | tch__, deployments are usually slow to provide feedback |
| 21:07 | walterbender | I feel a bit at sea in terms of deployment needs/concerns |
| 21:08 | for planning the next release | |
| 21:08 | Quozl` | i also feel there is no feedback from deployments, as if they have abandoned the development process. |
| 21:08 | walterbender | so I suggest we look at what would help with long-term maintenance |
| 21:09 | they presumably want stability | |
| 21:09 | and we presumably want to lessen the support burden | |
| 21:09 | Quozl` | i suspect they have achieved stability by rejecting all problem reports from users. |
| 21:09 | tch__ | walterbender, in my experience I am sure they want stability and a nice browser, |
| 21:09 | samdroid | ;) |
| 21:09 | *:) | |
| 21:10 | walterbender | to a large extent stability these days is keeping current with our upstream |
| 21:10 | Quozl` | i agree, and possibly that their browser concerns often trump any other problems. |
| 21:10 | samdroid | good luck with a nice browser |
| 21:10 | WebKit2 we need new apis upstream (or to rewrite the whole history system) | |
| 21:11 | and if we were to go CEF we're going to uncharted (and unpackaged?) terrirory | |
| 21:11 | *CEF/servo | |
| 21:11 | Quozl` | leaves |
| 21:11 | gonzalo__ | bye Quozl` |
| 21:11 | samdroid, what is CEF/servo? | |
| 21:12 | walterbender | back in 5 |
| 21:12 | samdroid | gonzalo__: cef=chromiume emdeded framework. servo is mozillas new browser and it uses the cef api |
| 21:12 | gonzalo__: cef is probs a better browser - google spends more on browsers than apple does... now at least | |
| 21:13 | tch__ | samdroid, what the relation with webkit? does it use wk or is a new thing? |
| 21:13 | samdroid | blink - the webkit fork |
| 21:13 | tch__ | samdroid, ah, yeah |
| 21:14 | samdroid | it's something to look into - but it would definatly end up with c code in browse |
| 21:14 | gonzalo__ | samdroid, well, that is not compatible with old linux (like F18) nor with new right now |
| 21:14 | samdroid | gonzalo__: wk2? |
| 21:14 | Quozl` | i think the webkit2 browse is something to concentrate on, and the telepathy api. bye. |
| 21:14 | tch__ | samdroid, hmm, we probably need to evaluate its pros |
| 21:14 | gonzalo__ | blink and the new google stuff |
| 21:14 | tch__ | Quozl`, thanks for your 2cents :) |
| 21:15 | samdroid | webkit 2 pros: gi.repository bindings |
| 21:15 | tch__ | samdroid, thats a big noe |
| 21:15 | s/noe/one | |
| 21:16 | samdroid | webkit2 -: no history api |
| 21:17 | tch__ | samdroid, I think the users big concer are related to whether or not they can display their websites |
| 21:17 | samdroid | ok |
| 21:17 | gonzalo__ | samdroid, yes, but other than that, we are pretty close |
| 21:18 | tch__ | samdroid, gonzalo__ is there any work related to webkit2 in browse already? |
| 21:18 | samdroid | yes |
| 21:18 | gonzalo__ | tch__, yes |
| 21:18 | samdroid | it works ok |
| 21:18 | but not histroy/persistance | |
| 21:18 | gonzalo__ | we have a branch webkit2, and is working |
| 21:18 | samdroid | or the edit menu |
| 21:19 | gonzalo__ | that are the main issues |
| 21:19 | tch__ | samdroid, is that a regression in webkit? or we need to adapt browse? |
| 21:19 | gonzalo__ | and the problem is, the webkit2 removed api that we use |
| 21:19 | tch__ | gonzalo__, ouch, |
| 21:19 | gonzalo__, removed from webkit or the bindings? | |
| 21:19 | gonzalo__ | samdroid.maybe we could get the history using javascript? |
| 21:19 | tch__ | gonzalo__, is it intentional? |
| 21:19 | gonzalo__ | tch__, yes |
| 21:20 | samdroid | gonzalo__: we can get the history 100% fine |
| 21:20 | gonzalo__ | tch__, samdroid already filled a bug |
| 21:20 | samdroid | but we can not set the history |
| 21:20 | gonzalo__ | samdroid, true |
| 21:20 | samdroid | ok so maybe I'll chase that one up |
| 21:20 | gonzalo__ | i forgotten that |
| 21:20 | tch__ | samdroid, ok, so this things is already moving.. |
| 21:20 | gonzalo__, ^ | |
| 21:20 | samdroid | CEF doesn't seem to have a history api at 1st look - not seeing a set history func |
| 21:20 | yeah | |
| 21:21 | tch__ | samdroid, gonzalo__ last question regarding webkit2, any chance it would work on f18? |
| 21:21 | or we would need to maintain a webkit1 fork for f18? | |
| 21:22 | gonzalo__ | tch__, i think will be better get the webkit1 on f18 |
| 21:22 | tch__ | gonzalo__, ok |
| 21:23 | another important topic is collaboration, | |
| 21:23 | samdroid^ | +1 |
| 21:23 | tch__ | has anyone looked into collaboration stack recently/ |
| 21:23 | ? | |
| 21:24 | basically, telepathy dropped Tubes channel... which is what we use for collab | |
| 21:24 | they dropped it a long time ago, btw, 2011/12 | |
| 21:24 | I haven't looked into the details, but it does not seems to be a trivial work | |
| 21:25 | the only workaround for newer distros is to use an older version of telepathy gabble, | |
| 21:26 | but that can't be considered a solution since newer telepathy is used by other DE apps | |
| 21:27 | putting package maintainers on a problematic situation | |
| 21:27 | samdroid | so is the plan to port it to the new telepathy api version? |
| 21:28 | tch__ | samdroid, that would be ideal, but first we need to understand whats in telepathy now, to see if its possible... |
| 21:28 | samdroid | ok |
| 21:28 | tch__ | samdroid, another route could be to find a different tech, |
| 21:28 | samdroid | yep |
| 21:29 | tch__ | samdroid, but in any case, I won't be easy... specially because there are many activities to adapt |
| 21:29 | samdroid | (I have no idea how collab stack works) |
| 21:29 | tch__ | I am not even sure how many, |
| 21:29 | samdroid | oh, yeah they all use tp directly |
| 21:29 | tch__ | samdroid, I know very little too, just the basics |
| 21:30 | samdroid | maybe from a sugar3 api sense we shouold add an abstraction over whatever api we use to make it more indipendant of the system |
| 21:31 | tch__ | samdroid, assuming we can find a proper replacement for what was dropped, yes |
| 21:32 | samdroid | ok |
| 21:32 | tch__ | samdroid, gonzalo__ walterbender moving on... have you tried sugar on fedora 22+? |
| 21:32 | samdroid | looks nice on fedora 24(?) rawhide |
| 21:33 | but treeviews zebra stripes have regressed :P | |
| 21:33 | tch__ | samdroid, thanks to you and gonzalo__ ;) |
| 21:33 | satellit_e has quit IRC | |
| 21:33 | tch__ | samdroid, I have noticed most of the changes are related to artwork gtk themes |
| 21:33 | and not so much to the actual code aPI | |
| 21:33 | s/aPI/API | |
| 21:34 | gonzalo__ | tch__, yeah |
| 21:35 | tch__ | samdroid, gonzalo__ I believe that is a good thing.. being optimistic, I would say gtk API its pretty stable recently, |
| 21:35 | luckily for us, because we haven't really done much about that, | |
| 21:36 | I think samdroid made some adjustments recently, and the other issue I can recall was solved with the custom bindings for clipboard | |
| 21:36 | in SugarExt | |
| 21:36 | samdroid | that's a nice hack |
| 21:37 | tch__ | glorious 20 lines of C code... but I haven't checked that on f22+ |
| 21:37 | i know its works on f18-20 | |
| 21:37 | samdroid | I don't think it's broken |
| 21:37 | I was testing dranging jobjects to the cb | |
| 21:37 | and that works (with cb patches) | |
| 21:38 | tch__ | samdroid, make sure to try with journal entries containing images, etc |
| 21:38 | samdroid | tch__: quick collab question: Aren't there 2 collab transports? olpcmesh and telepathy? or are they both telepathy? |
| 21:39 | tch__ | samdroid, If there is a olpcmesh module/package, I don't know anything about it... the only mesh I know of the the physical network stuff |
| 21:39 | samdroid, which was dropped from xo1.5+ | |
| 21:40 | samdroid | oh |
| 21:40 | ok | |
| 21:40 | tch__ | maybe walterbender has more info about that |
| 21:41 | so, we briefly mentioned webkit2, telepathy, gtk (which sounds pretty critical stuff to me), but is there anything else you guys want to mention? | |
| 21:41 | ideally, | |
| 21:42 | this talk is about what needs to be done, we then decide what can be done :) | |
| 21:42 | samdroid | getting rid of gtk menus looks like it could happen for 108 |
| 21:42 | gonzalo__ | tch__, we can talk about what we _want_ do, other that _need_ do |
| 21:43 | tch__ | gonzalo__, well, ideally we should start by what needs to be done, and then see what can actually be done |
| 21:43 | gonzalo__ | samdroid, yes, but we need maintain for compatibility (some activities use the menues). |
| 21:44 | samdroid | gonzalo__: ya, and combo boxes |
| 21:44 | tch__ | gonzalo__, in other words, we should at least mention these things |
| 21:44 | samdroid | gonzalo__: but we can move them over |
| 21:44 | gonzalo__: and then we get less shell bugs :) Hopefully :) | |
| 21:44 | tch__ | samdroid, have you experimented with that? |
| 21:44 | samdroid | yep |
| 21:44 | tch__ | samdroid, is a big change? |
| 21:44 | samdroid | nap |
| 21:44 | gonzalo__ | samdroid, yes, but i don't want break activities that didn't changed because we change the tolkit |
| 21:45 | samdroid | gonzalo__: I wasn't suggesting we delete to old code |
| 21:45 | tch__: I've submitted a patch | |
| 21:45 | gonzalo__ | ok, just to be sure |
| 21:45 | samdroid | http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]s/Replace_GtkMenu |
| 21:45 | tch__ | samdroid, gonzalo__ , thats another thing we need to evaluate, |
| 21:45 | gonzalo__ | tch__, the change is mostly on sugar, not in the toolkit |
| 21:46 | tch__, maybe we can add deprecation warnings in the toolkit only | |
| 21:46 | tch__ | gonzalo__, I see, |
| 21:46 | samdroid | tch__: ...? |
| 21:46 | gonzalo__ | tch__, sugar use the menu api on the journal and in the clipboard only |
| 21:47 | tch__ | ok, |
| 21:47 | gonzalo__ | tch__, then is doable replace that submenu by a modal window |
| 21:47 | tch__, and have a few advantages | |
| 21:47 | samdroid | search! |
| 21:47 | gonzalo__ | * si more usable with touch |
| 21:47 | s/si/is/ | |
| 21:48 | * we have a few bugs in the menues interaction | |
| 21:48 | samdroid | gtkwindow palettes look more like proper palettes |
| 21:48 | gonzalo__ | yes |
| 21:48 | samdroid | proper gap rendering |
| 21:48 | (except when the window manager puts shadows all over the place) | |
| 21:49 | tch__ | something I was thinking about is how much of these things actually improve the user experience of user (not saying that improving maintainability and shell stability is a bad thing though) |
| 21:49 | but that takes us back to the feedback topic, which I think can't be solved in a developers team meeting | |
| 21:49 | gonzalo__ | tch__, i think we can detail the improvements in the feature page |
| 21:50 | samdroid, i would like work with you in this feature | |
| 21:50 | samdroid | ok |
| 21:51 | tch__ | nice, something concrete :) |
| 21:51 | hehe, | |
| 21:51 | gonzalo__ | samdroid, would be, you would work, and i will review, test and criticize :) |
| 21:51 | haha | |
| 21:51 | samdroid | that's fine by me :) |
| 21:51 | tch__ | moving on... |
| 21:51 | gonzalo__ | samdroid, tch__, the other think would be land the journal patches |
| 21:52 | thing | |
| 21:52 | samdroid | #action gonzalo__ work with samdroid on the modals |
| 21:52 | gonzalo__ | i think we need test deeply |
| 21:52 | samdroid | #action look more into wk2 browse |
| 21:52 | +1 | |
| 21:52 | tch__ | in the early meetings for 106 cycle, we said we were ok to keep time-base releases, 6 months cycles, |
| 21:52 | gonzalo__ | maybe prepare testing rpms for german |
| 21:53 | tch__ | samdroid, gonzalo__ walterbender are we still ok with that? |
| 21:53 | samdroid | with the journal patches? |
| 21:53 | tch__: i suppose | |
| 21:53 | tch__ | well, I am, but is a good exercise to ask, |
| 21:54 | samdroid | gonzalo__: +1 though, let's merge those journal patches early and then get them really tested |
| 21:54 | gonzalo__ | tch__, i am ok with 6 months |
| 21:54 | tch__ | samdroid, gonzalo__ walterbender , if its 6 months, then the next release would be in january 2016 |
| 21:54 | gonzalo__ | tch__, but we would think in call 0.108 Sugar 1 (or 3) and call it stable |
| 21:55 | tch__ | gonzalo__, it could be, I think that is a decision charged with philosophical energies though he, |
| 21:56 | gonzalo__ | yep, |
| 21:56 | tch__ | gonzalo__, samdroid, walterbender regarding the time, think january is ok for the final release? |
| 21:56 | samdroid | nice timing with the whole campaign around reelecting slobs :) |
| 21:56 | tch__ | I was thinking about GCI, in case we participate it would be troublesome, |
| 21:57 | samdroid | It always is :) |
| 21:57 | gonzalo__ | tch__, when is GCI? |
| 21:57 | samdroid | but we can hack more on activities during gci |
| 21:57 | tch__ | gonzalo__, usually is Dec 1 |
| 21:57 | gonzalo__ | samdroid, +1 |
| 21:57 | tch__ | if 108 is released before or at the same of GCI, then it gives more flexibility, |
| 21:58 | thats the pro, the con is we have 1 month less :P | |
| 21:58 | flexibility for the GCI topics | |
| 21:58 | samdroid, I don't mind, working on activities is always good | |
| 21:58 | samdroid | tch__: will we have collab done for that release in that cycle? |
| 21:59 | tch__: 'cause fixing collab is kinda the big feature for this cycle | |
| 21:59 | tch__ | samdroid, we don't know yet, but if it is, that would be a popular topic for GCI |
| 21:59 | gonzalo__ | tch__, if we want stability, we can add gci stuff at the end |
| 21:59 | can't | |
| 21:59 | my fingers! | |
| 21:59 | tch__ | gonzalo__, yes, that why I am suggesting to release it before, |
| 21:59 | samdroid | tch__: so maybe we should choose the times later when we have an idea of the collab stuff? |
| 22:00 | tch__ | and by flexibility I meant that we usually ignore GCI stuff, because we are close to release |
| 22:00 | samdroid | :_) |
| 22:00 | *:) | |
| 22:00 | tch__ | is something we can consult with our pillows ;) |
| 22:00 | gonzalo__ | tch__, +1 |
| 22:00 | samdroid | count down to end meeting? |
| 22:01 | gonzalo__ | i need go, any other issue? |
| 22:01 | tch__ | I think we have mentioned the important topics, |
| 22:01 | 3 | |
| 22:01 | samdroid | 2 |
| 22:01 | gonzalo__ | 1 |
| 22:01 | tch__ | #endmeeting |
| 22:01 | meeting | Meeting ended Mon Jul 20 22:01:36 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 22:01 | gonzalo__ | we can follow on the ml |
| 22:01 | meeting | Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-20T21:02:59.html |
| 22:01 | Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]15-07-20T21:02:59 |