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#sugar-meeting meeting, 2015-07-06 23:06:56

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23:06 meeting Meeting started Mon Jul  6 23:06:56 2015 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
23:06 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
23:07 walterbender hello all
23:07 Claudia_ How are you?
23:07 walterbender thanks for joining us
23:07 I've been busy, but not as busy as the devel team
23:07 #topic 106
23:07 Congrats regarding the release of Sugar 0.106
23:08 Martin just sent out the notice and we've been working in the release notes
23:08 CanoeBerry Am late too, hi all.
23:08 walterbender #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.106/Notes
23:08 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> Very good!
23:08 walterbender hi adam...
23:08 Claudia_ vey nice
23:08 *very
23:08 walterbender lots of stability patches
23:08 and lots of work to make it work on F21
23:08 sdanielf <sdanielf!~webchat@rev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
23:08 Claudia_ how many by the kids?
23:09 walterbender Claudia_, haven't gotten those details yet
23:09 sdanielf hi all
23:09 walterbender hi sdanielf
23:09 how is the conference?
23:09 To let everyone know, we dedicated the release in the memory of Marco Gritti Presenti
23:10 Claudia_ nice
23:10 walterbender also, we've arranged to send a laptop with the latest Sugar bits to his daughter
23:10 sdanielf walterbender, it begins on wednesday
23:10 walterbender sdanielf, have fun!!
23:10 any comments re 0.106?
23:10 Quozl` (kids in 106; several contributions from sam parkinson)
23:11 walterbender Quozl`, more than several :)
23:11 Quozl`, is there an Ubuntu release with 106?
23:11 Quozl` walterbender: planned, once martin does ubuntu packages.  also once german does 106 packages, there'll be an xo release.
23:12 walterbender: maybe a day or two.
23:12 walterbender Quozl`, long ago I had an offer from Ubuntu to make an official whatever their equivalent of a spin is that they'd host/promote
23:12 we didn't have a team to maintain it so I didn't follow up
23:13 maybe the time has come
23:13 Quozl` walterbender: maybe.  or debian, given sebastian is into that and it feeds into ubuntu.
23:13 walterbender Jonas has been helping with upstreaming to Debian.
23:14 but it may be worth getting Ubuntu to help us with promotion
23:14 they put a big effort on those sorts of things -- something we tend to fall short on
23:14 gonzalo__ walterbender, Quozl`, in the end, is good have a better proposal on the .deb world
23:15 walterbender but I don't want to commit without a solid plan
23:15 Quozl` i'm worried we've failed in the .rpm world, given the breakage of collaboration for years.
23:16 walterbender Quozl`, yes. Tch and I had discussed making a rewrite of the Collabora bits a priority for 108
23:17 let's discuss it when tch is around
23:17 Just a few more quick topics before we jump into the main discussion -- elections
23:18 #topic survey of youth contributors
23:19 I am working with Jose Miguel and Daniel to get some feedback from the youth contributors to Sugar with the goal of understanding their motivations and what tools they use for learning and collaboration
23:19 Jose Miguel: maybe we can circulate the questions this week?
23:19 Claudia_ is that for the paper too?
23:20 walterbender Claudia_, in theory at least
23:20 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> If, it is good idea.
23:20 sdanielf I can translate and send the questions to them
23:20 walterbender jose miguel: I think the list (including your addition) is complete. It just needs to be translated into Spanish
23:20 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> The subject is the contact. I think that Daniel has more arrived that I with these youngsters.
23:20 walterbender sdanielf, that'd be great!!!
23:21 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> There are not problems. If it already remained definite translate it...
23:22 walterbender sdanielf, please ask them to try to get back to us ASAP
23:22 sdanielf shall I make a list of interviewees for you to agree?
23:22 gonzalo__ walterbender, could you share more about this survey?
23:23 Quozl` aims, scope, timing?
23:23 walterbender sdanielf, anyone you know would be good and we can add more
23:23 the idea is to try to understand why kids contribute and how
23:23 and what they learn along the way
23:24 Quozl` have a sociologist or psychologist involved in design?  ;-)
23:24 walterbender we will start with the kids from UY who are somewhat a special case but will try to engage others too, such as Sam
23:24 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> There is educating. ;)
23:24 walterbender Quozl`, not yet... this is a pilot study to begin
23:24 Quozl` thanks, good to hear.
23:24 sdanielf what about asking english-speaker youth? they might have also interesting answers
23:25 walterbender sdanielf, I will try to reach out to some of them
23:26 gonzalo__ walterbender, would be good have more input than the UY case.
23:26 walterbender gonzalo__, agreed. but we need to start somewhere
23:26 and we have a big pool there to survey
23:27 gonzalo__ walterbender, GSOC participants would be a group too
23:27 walterbender gonzalo__, I was thinking younger -- GCI kids
23:27 gonzalo__ tru GCI
23:27 true
23:27 but would be good ask for how much time they were involved
23:27 walterbender gonzalo__, I have limited access to them though
23:28 but I will try to reach as many as I can
23:28 speaking of GSoC...
23:28 gonzalo__ some kids only participate while GCI, others ontinue
23:29 walterbender gonzalo__, yes... the ones that continue are easier to reach :) but in both cases it is a skewed sample
23:29 but we want to learn from them regardless
23:29 we should move on to the election discussion
23:29 gonzalo__ ok
23:29 walterbender is anyone here from the membership committee?
23:30 while we are waiting...
23:30 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> It is that in this moment is not a representative sample.
23:30 <Jose_Miguel-es> And it is not the idea, create.
23:30 walterbender Jose Miguel +1
23:30 #topic GSoC
23:31 just a quick update
23:31 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> But it is important to have data of how live it the youngsters.
23:31 walterbender all 6 passed the midterms
23:31 good progress from most
23:31 1 a bit shaky but we are working on it
23:31 tip of the hat to our mentors (including some new faces who are doing a great job)
23:32 #topic elections
23:32 Did everyone have a chance to read the memo that was circulated?
23:32 gonzalo__ yes
23:32 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> *Yes
23:33 walterbender I thought the plan was reasonable...
23:33 I am fine with whatever people want to do regarding the cycle
23:33 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> I did not understand how it defines  those who are chosen for each period of time.
23:33 walterbender my only concern is that we get candidates
23:34 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> Perhaps the English was not very good. ;)
23:34 walterbender jose miguel: they proposed to options
23:34 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> *Ok
23:34 walterbender (1) the top 4 candidates are for 2 years; the bottom 3 for 1 year
23:34 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> *Ok.
23:34 walterbender or (2) the top 4 for 3 years; the bottom 3 for 2 years
23:35 I may be mis-remembering some detals but it was approximately that
23:35 gonzalo__ i don't have problem, but the model of change by half have the objective of provide continuity
23:35 walterbender the reason we have not had elections is because we have not had enough candidates to compete for seats
23:36 so the real issue to me is how to recruit
23:36 CanoeBerry http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]-July/017507.html
23:37 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]tachment-0001.pdf
23:37 Claudia_ Yes.. and recruit a balanced group of candidates
23:37 walterbender I still feel guilty about recruiting sdanielf since he otherwise would have won GCI
23:37 but I would love to get sam and/or ignacio and/or some other youth contributors to run
23:38 gonzalo__ walterbender, i don't know if slobs is the best role for young hackers
23:38 walterbender, i would like to have more teachers
23:38 and we didn't achieve that
23:39 Claudia_ Agree with Gonzalo
23:39 gonzalo__ also would be nice have more representation from deployments....
23:39 Claudia_ perhaps the key is to make sure the voices of educators and young people are heard
23:39 walterbender gonzalo__, +1 to teachers but the last one I managed to recruit was Gerald
23:39 Claudia_ and well represented in what SugarLabs does
23:40 walterbender how do we recruit them?
23:40 Quozl` my opinion is that the kids are critical to the process, and having some kids on slobs wouldn't hurt, and would help.
23:40 walterbender Quozl`, +1
23:41 w/o the kids we are a much less interesting project
23:41 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> +1, but in accordance with Walter, that can prejudice them in spaces like *CGI. It is necessary to be accurate
23:41 sdanielf I have to agree with gonzalo in that slobs isn't a place for young hackers
23:41 walterbender sdanielf, could you elaborate?
23:42 Quozl` slots it's a place for young slobs, and if they might be both capable of communicating and coding at the same time, no reason to exclude them.
23:42 sdanielf I think that the only kids who could get involved in slobs are those who are already involved in the community, so they should be young hackers
23:43 walterbender sdanielf, ???
23:43 Quozl` is that because the only community involvment we track is development?
23:43 sdanielf but the cannot participate in GCI after that
23:43 Quozl`: yes
23:43 Cerlyn Would the SFC impose any restrictions, and could the kids be officers?  It might be seen as odd to have a child delgated as Treasurer.
23:43 icarito excuse me
23:43 this meeting is not announced for another 15 minutes
23:44 0 UTC
23:44 gonzalo__ Quozl`, sugarlabs sin :/
23:44 Cerlyn icarito: Time zone error
23:44 Quozl` icarito: yes.
23:44 icarito: 7pm EST is not 0Z
23:44 icarito it's difficult to know what EST is
23:44 CanoeBerry Indeed.
23:44 icarito but 0 UTC was easy
23:44 CanoeBerry 7PM EDT is the truth..
23:44 icarito except wrong
23:44 Quozl` icarito: shell ... "TZ=:US/Eastern date"
23:45 samdroid <samdroid!~sam@> has joined #sugar-meeting
23:45 samdroid-test <samdroid-test!~webchat@rev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
23:45 sdanielf and most of young hackers are not anymore the voice of students actually, at least in my classrooms I don't see laptops very often
23:45 GrannieB3 <GrannieB3!~webchat@rev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
23:45 CanoeBerry GrannieB3: welcome
23:45 gonzalo__ i had the same problem, we need set the meetings on UTC format
23:45 samdroid-test has quit IRC
23:46 GrannieB3 Hi… did I finally find the right place?
23:46 Quozl` samdroid: GrannieB3: welcome, we're in the middle of the meeting, we've been meeting from 7pm Eastern US time.
23:46 walterbender did the conversion wrong... I tried to announce in both
23:46 and I usually announce city by city as well.
23:46 CanoeBerry Or any large city works as well as UTC, do communicate times without drowning in daylight / savings time adjustments.
23:46 walterbender I may not have this time?
23:46 CanoeBerry Such as "NYC Time" etc.
23:46 GrannieB3 It is so light here in Montana that I had no clue it was so late.
23:47 walterbender back to sdanielf
23:47 a couple of comments
23:47 i5o is now known as nacho
23:47 nacho is now known as i5o
23:48 walterbender (1) while again I think it was a bad decision to mess up your GCI experience, I think with some of the others, who have already participated for many years it is less of an issue
23:49 (2) the lack of Sugar in the schools is a separate problem
23:49 icarito GrannieB3, meeting was announced for 15m from now in UTC time - here's a backlog of the last 47 mins http://paste.debian.net/279663/
23:49 walterbender but one where having some insights from students AND teachers would help
23:50 sdanielf, I am also concerned that it is administrators who are more responsible for the lack of computer/Sugar use than teachers
23:50 i5o Hi everyone
23:50 walterbender we don't do a good job of catering to their needs
23:50 sdanielf walterbender: then I think the board needs someone younger than me, I'm older since the time I was elected
23:50 walterbender sdanielf, how did you manage to get older :)
23:52 sdanielf walterbender: don't know, I think it's because of Java and C++
23:52 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> I think that it is important to have both sides. Motivated and greater youngsters that motivate and promote.
23:55 GrannieB3 OK skimmed the part I missed.
23:55 Claudia_ I think we need to make sure we help those members bring the voice of their peers (both young people and teachers)...  great responsability
23:56 walterbender icarito, GrannieB3 to catch you up -- we seem to have consensus on the model you guys have articulated
23:56 GrannieB3 Great!
23:56 I notice you had some confusion about the process.
23:56 walterbender but we have concerns about how to ensure we recruit more candidates
23:56 GrannieB3, wanna "unconfuse" us?
23:57 GrannieB3 recruiting is very important… as is retention and participation of existing members. That is where the "short newsletter of recent accomplishments we need comes in.
23:59 walterbender GrannieB3, I'm all for any and all mechanisms for retention and participation
00:00 GrannieB3 Yes… the process is quite simple.  All 7 offices need to be filled/refilled. If you want 2 cohorts on SLOBS, we can split it 4-3 with the top 4 vote getters having terms of 2 years and the next 3, 1 year.
00:00 Or… it could be split differently if that is what you all decide
00:01 walterbender GrannieB3, I suppose we can vote, but I think your intentions (continuity) are good
00:01 gonzalo__ GrannieB3, icarito, did you plan any action about the sugarlabs members list?
00:01 CanoeBerry GrannieB3: thanks again for yr bringing this together so concisely: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]tachment-0001.pdf
00:02 Personally, I'd not want to encourage 3-year terms as we (like many boards) have had a problem with absenteeism.
00:02 GrannieB3 If you want 3 cohorts, it could be split 3-2-2. In order to make the turn-over annual there would need to be one (one time only) 3 year term for the top 3, 2 years for the middle 2 and 1 year for the last 2
00:03 walterbender CanoeBerry, 3 years is a long time -- too long IMHO
00:04 CanoeBerry The doc above seems perfect, if folkd agree to drop item #8
00:04 *folks
00:04 GrannieB3 We will be sending a message to the current membership touting all the great things SugarLabs has done recently and encouraging them to run for office. I don't know if it is psycologically a good idea to invite them to take their names off the list.
00:05 If they want to be dropped, they can initiate the process with a simple email reply
00:07 walterbender that is fine... but getting more participation from the community is key
00:07 gonzalo__ +1
00:07 walterbender I think we have many people participating who are not members
00:07 or don't know that they can participate
00:08 gonzalo__ the big olpc community is fragmented
00:08 GrannieB3 Right! We need to recruit from other groups of folks who are active with Sugar… such as UnleashKids, OLPC France, etc. etc, etc.
00:08 Claudia_ I agree with Gonzalo
00:08 gonzalo__ and we as sugarlabs have a tendency to value more development work
00:09 i would like to find a way to involve more people, writing docs, etc
00:09 GrannieB3 If you are looking for young people, teachers, administrators, etc… you are looking for far more than just developers
00:10 gonzalo__ GrannieB3, yes
00:10 two examples:
00:10 Quozl` (developers used to mean also writing docs, translations, and promotion ... but that's not what developers means these days)
00:11 gonzalo__ with 0.106 we included social.sugarlabs.org, a site to rovide interactive help
00:11 and help.sugarlabs.org have the docs created for many members in the community
00:11 Quozl`, the point is involve more people, not have the same people doing more work
00:12 Quozl`, we need enlarge the community
00:12 GrannieB3 the teachers in Peru, Argentina, and Paraguay might be a place to look for members.  Rosamel joined once, she has to be the best Sugar teacher anywhere! Her health is getting a lot better so maybe she would be willing to participate
00:12 Quozl` gonzalo__: yes, and promoting what some people do can have the effect of reducing what others do.  because somebody else is doing it.
00:12 GrannieB3 She is now teaching other teachers too!
00:13 gonzalo__ Quozl`, i don't follow
00:13 what should we do?
00:14 Quozl` gonzalo__: we should not emphasise coding development effort.  we should emphasise features and community of users.
00:14 GrannieB3 Rozamel in Uruguay… she was very ill with breast cancer in the years after some of us met her. But she is doing soooo much better now.
00:15 i5o is now known as nacho
00:15 GrannieB3 She is a very effective teacher and teaches at a local teachers college in Uruguay in addition to being an administrator at a school
00:15 Quozl` gonzalo__: ask yourself this; where does the community of sugar users exist now; how do they communicate?  iaep@  sugar-devel@  facebook?  i think a community of users is needed, _from_ which development and outreach may be guided.
00:16 gonzalo__ Quozl`, well communication is a big problem, evidently
00:17 GrannieB3 How about the folks in OLPC France? I love that they want Sugar on every device. Some of the Activities have a long way to go, but there soon will be enough to promote it for use on non XO devices at schools all over the world
00:17 Take that LAUSD and your iPads!!!
00:18 Quozl` ... and with no well-functioning user community, Sugar ends up being pushed around by developers or funded organisations like deployments or OLPC.
00:18 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> I have to go me...
00:19 Quozl` Re: elections, I'm not a member of SLOBS, but I suggest that SLOBS reach out to people who may be able to join it.  Young or old, developer or not.
00:20 samdroid +1
00:20 Quozl` sits down
00:21 GrannieB3 So… the goal is to grow the SugarLabs membership and encourage people to run for SLOBS
00:21 walterbender yes
00:21 not a new goal
00:22 but we have never been good at it
00:22 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> *Sorry... *Bye.
00:22 * Jose_Miguel has quit (Quit: Page closed)
00:22 Jm_ has quit IRC
00:23 walterbender so any renewed effort and new insights would be great
00:23 GrannieB3 So…. maybe more than just a short newsy item… a real (one time only perhaps) Newsletter (note the capital "N")
00:24 walterbender GrannieB3, that is certainly one point of our effort
00:24 but do we have other ideas too?
00:24 GrannieB3 Who can contribute to such an effort?  If someone feeds me the stories, I can put it into a newsletter
00:25 gonzalo__ GrannieB3, I can send you something, if you correct my grammar ;)
00:26 GrannieB3 Yes! Gonzalo, that would be great!
00:26 gonzalo__ GrannieB3, when you want release the Newsletter?
00:26 GrannieB3 anyone else?
00:26 gonzalo__ (of course we need more people)
00:26 GrannieB3 We wanted to send the email out to the membership the first week in August
00:26 walterbender GrannieB3, I have 8 years of blogs you can draw from
00:27 kaametza GrannieB3, we will get you news from Peru
00:27 gonzalo__ GrannieB3, maybe you can send requests to more people, samdroid and nacho can tell us abbout GCI too ;)
00:27 GrannieB3 Not old news …. Walter… 8 years ago… no. We need current stuff
00:28 Do you all have my email to send me the blurbs?
00:28 Quozl` Good old news is just as good, if it is re-edited for context.
00:28 gonzalo__ GrannieB3, maybe ask to sora or the guys from olpc france too
00:28 kaametza GrannieB3, you shold write to deployments leaders like Maureen
00:28 walterbender GrannieB3, I am working on my latest post, but I doubt most people know about much of anything I have posted in the past 6 months
00:28 kaametza I'll pass you her email
00:29 Quozl` GrannieB3: and give anybody you ask the option of writing only a small paragraph, so they have a graceful way out if they are busy.  ;-)
00:29 walterbender GrannieB3, a lot of the deployments post on FB
00:29 GrannieB3 I won't have time to read thru 8 years of blogs looking for the gems.  Walter, could you find some of the stuff you would like to include.  Let's keep everything short and snappy!
00:29 walterbender you can mine those stories too
00:30 GrannieB3 No…. I'll edit and rewrite as needed, but I don't want to write the storied too. Not enough time! You can all have "bylines" on what you send me.
00:31 walterbender GrannieB3, can you give me some criteria for what you think you need?
00:31 Claudia_ I have to go soon
00:32 GrannieB3 Super interesting things that will appeal to the current membership and the type of new members we want to attract.
00:32 walterbender Claudia_, thanks... ttyl
00:32 GrannieB3 Claudia… how about a blurb from you?
00:33 kaametza maybe every current SLOB can contribute with their story
00:33 Claudia_ +1
00:33 GrannieB3 good idea kaametza
00:34 (You can tell I don't know how to use irc)
00:34 walterbender not sure I understand... "their story"
00:34 Claudia_ I am happy to work on something.. it would be great to get some topics, so we end up with a good collection
00:35 GrannieB3 How about you all "pitch" your ideas and tell whether you would be willing to write it or suggest someone else who could do it?
00:35 kaametza many stories to tell I guess, it might be interesting to read their experiences as SLOBs
00:35 GrannieB3 Then we can look for balance and pick a reasonable list of stories to include
00:36 Claudia_ could we again summarize the overall goal?
00:36 GrannieB3 does anyone want to be an "assistant editor?"
00:37 gonzalo__ kaametza, ?
00:37 walterbender Claudia_, I think the stated goal is "A short “newsletter”about the recent
00:37 accomplishments of Sugar Labs will need to be prepared by the board for use" for recruiting members
00:38 Claudia_ put together a collection of different kinds of stories?  establish a good communication mechanism (periodic)? attract SLOBs candidates? engage the community?
00:38 kaametza gonzalo__, I'll help by putting together some news from Peru
00:38 GrannieB3 we want to energize the current SugarLabs membership, recruit new members, and encourage people to run for SLOBS. The means we will use is a "newsletter" semt to current members and prospective members
00:38 Thats a suggested goal
00:38 gonzalo__ i think engage the community is the big objective. include a note about the near elections would be good
00:39 kaametza gonzalo__, maybe Colombia as well
00:39 walterbender maybe Rwanda as well
00:39 GrannieB3 This is sounding exciting!
00:39 Claudia_ so.. a bit of all..
00:40 GrannieB3 I can hardly wait to see what you guys contribute and what else we can find out there in the great world of Sugar!
00:40 Claudia_ it would be good to have a bit of structure, so we know where to contribute
00:40 GrannieB3 OK. Send the items to me also email contacts for others we should encourage to contribute
00:41 Do you wan tme to put my email here? Or will that cause me a problem later (spam)
00:41 walterbender GrannieB3, we have your email
00:41 kaametza :D
00:42 GrannieB3 good!
00:42 kaametza thx GrannieB3 for helping with this!
00:43 GrannieB3 Our goal (by the schedule) is to have this ready to send out by mid-August, so it would be good if I could have the items by the end of July
00:43 I have house guests coming the first 2 weeks in August so I shoul dtry to get it in order before then
00:43 gonzalo__ ok, end of July
00:44 GrannieB3 Sooner is better so I don't get them all at once!
00:45 walterbender will try to get you something soon
00:45 anything else we need to discuss tonight?
00:45 GrannieB3 good!
00:45 dinner time!
00:47 walterbender OK... let's wrap up
00:47 thanks GrannieB3
00:47 gonzalo__ ok
00:47 walterbender 4
00:47 gonzalo__ GrannieB3, thanks for take the initiative
00:47 Claudia_ 3
00:47 gonzalo__ 2
00:47 GrannieB3 1
00:48 walterbender #end-meeting
00:48 meeting Meeting ended Tue Jul  7 00:48:16 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
00:48 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-06T23:06:56.html
00:48 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]15-07-06T23:06:56

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