| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 23:07 |
meeting |
Meeting started Mon May 4 23:07:10 2015 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 23:07 |
|
Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting |
| 23:07 |
walterbender |
welcome everyone |
| 23:07 |
|
hard to believe it is already May |
| 23:07 |
karen |
that's great about Hariet |
| 23:07 |
|
pipes down :) |
| 23:08 |
walterbender |
We have a lot to discuss tonight... so let's jump right in with Gonzalo and the survey |
| 23:08 |
|
#topic Sugar deployment survey |
| 23:08 |
|
gonzalo_, you have the floor :) |
| 23:09 |
gonzalo_ |
thanks walterbender |
| 23:09 |
|
question, everyone read the document with the summary of the deployment survey results? |
| 23:10 |
meeting |
<Jose_Miguel-es> If. |
| 23:10 |
|
<Jose_Miguel-es> *Yes! |
| 23:10 |
walterbender |
yes |
| 23:11 |
gonzalo_ |
sdanielf, did you read it? |
| 23:11 |
|
ClaudiaU, are you here? |
| 23:11 |
CanoeBerry |
Late to join, hi. |
| 23:11 |
walterbender |
no sign of ClaudiaU or CanoeBerry yet |
| 23:11 |
gonzalo_ |
hi CanoeBerry |
| 23:11 |
walterbender |
oh... hi adam |
| 23:11 |
gonzalo_ |
CanoeBerry, I was asking if all read the survey results doc |
| 23:11 |
walterbender |
ClaudiaU read it... |
| 23:11 |
CanoeBerry |
Hi, need to reread Gonzalo's doc. |
| 23:11 |
|
walter_ <walter_!~walter 146-115-134-246.c3-0.nwt-ubr1.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 23:12 |
sdanielf |
gonzalo_: didn't have time to do a deep understanding of the survey |
| 23:12 |
gonzalo_ |
sdanielf, CanoeBerry, please read it |
| 23:12 |
walterbender |
I think gonzalo_ 's summary was very to the point |
| 23:13 |
gonzalo_ |
honestly took a lot of time process the replies from everybody |
| 23:13 |
|
karen has quit IRC |
| 23:13 |
meeting |
<Jose_Miguel-es> A big work, that sees if it reads the report, and besides read the punctual answers... |
| 23:13 |
|
karen <karen!~karengnome/staff/conservancy.officer.karenesq> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 23:13 |
gonzalo_ |
as walter said, is not something that can surprise to anybody of us, already involved in the project |
| 23:13 |
|
but I think is a good first step to improve our communication with the deployments |
| 23:14 |
CanoeBerry |
4 page doc "survey_summary.odt" (or pdf) yes. |
| 23:14 |
|
Sorry summary.odt or survey_summary.pdf |
| 23:15 |
walterbender |
bottom line is our users like sugar, they don't communicate with us, and they don't have any funds to pay for development |
| 23:15 |
gonzalo_ |
i would like have the ok from the SLOBs before communicate the results in the lists |
| 23:15 |
walterbender |
gonzalo_, +1 |
| 23:15 |
CanoeBerry |
gonzalo_: ok |
| 23:15 |
gonzalo_ |
there are a few conclussions |
| 23:16 |
sdanielf |
+1 |
| 23:16 |
|
is still reading |
| 23:16 |
gonzalo_ |
1) We need improve the communication. In some cases was not clear the channel to get a reply |
| 23:17 |
|
in other cases the respondant complain about not get a reply from sugarlabs even when someone did a efffort to go to olpc sf event |
| 23:17 |
meeting |
<Jose_Miguel-es> It hit me this answer, of not knowing which was the channel... |
| 23:17 |
walterbender |
the confusion between Sugar and OLPC still is a problem for us |
| 23:17 |
gonzalo_ |
while the different groups in the community are connected, we need make clear what are our events, and where ask a question |
| 23:18 |
walterbender |
before I forget |
| 23:18 |
meeting |
<Jose_Miguel-es> In accordance with walterbender |
| 23:18 |
walterbender |
#agreed to share survey results with community |
| 23:18 |
gonzalo_ |
maybe walter or alan can check my english mistakes.... |
| 23:19 |
walterbender |
gonzalo_, it is fine... |
| 23:20 |
|
regarding the OLPC/Sugar confusion, even today many SL community members are only interested in supporting OLPC hardward (XO-1) |
| 23:20 |
gonzalo_ |
walterbender, if is the hardware they have.... |
| 23:20 |
walterbender |
yes |
| 23:20 |
|
I am not saying they are wrong... |
| 23:20 |
|
just stating the facts |
| 23:20 |
gonzalo_ |
is a logic concern |
| 23:21 |
|
hopefully we have good news about that |
| 23:21 |
|
but let finish the first point first |
| 23:21 |
|
are we voting about share the results, right? |
| 23:21 |
CanoeBerry |
i think so |
| 23:22 |
walterbender |
yes... we agreed... 5 votes in favor |
| 23:22 |
CanoeBerry |
confirmed yes |
| 23:22 |
meeting |
<Jose_Miguel-es> *Yes |
| 23:22 |
gonzalo_ |
ok |
| 23:22 |
|
I will send it later to iaep and sugar-devel |
| 23:22 |
|
may i propose a few actions? |
| 23:23 |
walterbender |
and sur if you can... /me cannot write to that list any more :( |
| 23:23 |
gonzalo_ |
yes, i can |
| 23:23 |
walterbender |
#action gonzalo to post results |
| 23:23 |
sdanielf |
walterbender: what happened with sur? |
| 23:24 |
walterbender |
I get bounces when I try to post |
| 23:24 |
|
gonzalo_, what actions do you have in mind? |
| 23:26 |
gonzalo_ |
1) send a mail saying tank you to everybody who replied |
| 23:26 |
walterbender |
+1 |
| 23:26 |
sdanielf |
the list is _inactive_, there's a lot of spam in the moderation queue and I don't check it very often :S |
| 23:27 |
gonzalo_ |
(i want thank here too to alan, walter and claudia who contacted most of the deployments) |
| 23:27 |
walterbender |
gonzalo_, our job... |
| 23:27 |
gonzalo_ |
2) use that mail to clarify communication issues eveident in particular replies |
| 23:28 |
walterbender |
+1 |
| 23:28 |
|
maybe we can work on that language together |
| 23:28 |
gonzalo_ |
ok |
| 23:29 |
|
one of the tasks i wanted propose was work in fix the problem with Browse on XO-1, a big blocker |
| 23:29 |
walterbender |
yes... |
| 23:29 |
|
I am very encouraged by the latest results |
| 23:29 |
gonzalo_ |
and james and I were working in two different approach and looks like we have results already |
| 23:29 |
CanoeBerry |
I'm presuming it's not just an XO-1 problem? |
| 23:30 |
gonzalo_ |
CanoeBerry, this is particular to xo-1 |
| 23:30 |
walterbender |
CanoeBerry, there are other problems... but a major on specific to XO-1 |
| 23:30 |
gonzalo_ |
at least we don't have reports of the same in other hardware |
| 23:30 |
walterbender |
before I forget |
| 23:30 |
CanoeBerry |
OK, seems to correspond to the many recent releases on other platforms @ http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Releases |
| 23:31 |
walterbender |
#action gonzalo to write to each of the respondents |
| 23:31 |
gonzalo_ |
two more proposals: |
| 23:31 |
|
we need work in sugar ina vm |
| 23:31 |
|
finally: |
| 23:32 |
|
i am wondering if a meet event could help to improve communication |
| 23:32 |
walterbender |
gonzalo_, you mean a prepackaged VM image? |
| 23:32 |
gonzalo_ |
yes |
| 23:32 |
walterbender |
we used something like that at one of my workshops in India... worked well |
| 23:33 |
|
saved the Virtual Box machine with Sugar loaded |
| 23:33 |
|
and copied it to other machines |
| 23:33 |
|
was easier than installing each time |
| 23:33 |
gonzalo_ |
and run in multiple os.... |
| 23:33 |
walterbender |
only tried it on Windows |
| 23:34 |
|
but we could just save multiple VMs |
| 23:35 |
|
gonzalo_, maybe something we can work on as part of the 106 release |
| 23:35 |
|
^^ tch__ |
| 23:35 |
gonzalo_ |
walterbender, yes |
| 23:35 |
walterbender |
gonzalo_, are you suggesting a meeting inviting all the deployments? |
| 23:35 |
|
would be great |
| 23:35 |
gonzalo_ |
walterbender, yes |
| 23:35 |
walterbender |
maybe something to add to the discussion next week in Managua |
| 23:36 |
gonzalo_ |
+1 |
| 23:37 |
walterbender |
anything else re the survey topic? |
| 23:38 |
|
OK |
| 23:38 |
|
let's jump to the next topic |
| 23:39 |
|
#topic Future of Sugar discussion in Managua |
| 23:39 |
|
ClaudiaU and I were invited by the Zamoras to come to Managua to discuss the future of Sugar |
| 23:39 |
|
as you know, they have taking over ownership of OLPC |
| 23:40 |
|
so the question is what relationship do they want to have with Sugar going forward |
| 23:40 |
|
I would first like to get official approval for this trip |
| 23:41 |
|
It is in part a planning session for Turtle Art Day, which has been approved, but the theme has changed enough that I want to get your input and approval |
| 23:41 |
meeting |
<Jose_Miguel-es> +1 |
| 23:41 |
gonzalo_ |
walterbender, is a opportunity we can't waste |
| 23:41 |
walterbender |
+1 from me... it is critical |
| 23:41 |
gonzalo_ |
+1 from my part |
| 23:42 |
CanoeBerry |
Turtle Art Day is also in Managua, but at a diff time? |
| 23:42 |
sdanielf |
+1 |
| 23:42 |
walterbender |
I'll ask ClaudiaU to email her +1 to the list |
| 23:42 |
|
CanoeBerry, we were going to do it at the same time, but it morphed into a planning meeting |
| 23:42 |
|
so I'll have to go back again |
| 23:42 |
CanoeBerry |
OK |
| 23:43 |
walterbender |
they couldn't decide on the date but they want to do it |
| 23:43 |
CanoeBerry |
+1 what are the rough dates of each trip to NI? |
| 23:43 |
walterbender |
the first trip is this week... we go to Miami and hitch a ride on the Zamora's private plane |
| 23:44 |
gonzalo_ |
:) |
| 23:44 |
walterbender |
the second trip will be decided when we are down there |
| 23:44 |
tch__ |
walterbender, +1 on VMs, btw, the spanish translation of the document is done |
| 23:44 |
walterbender |
tch__, thanks |
| 23:44 |
|
tch__, I have one more thing I'd like translated... 8 bullet items |
| 23:44 |
|
let me share it here as it is relevant to the discussion we'll be having |
| 23:44 |
tch__ |
walterbender, can you add it to the document? |
| 23:45 |
walterbender |
tch__, added |
| 23:45 |
tch__ |
walterbender, thanks ;) |
| 23:46 |
walterbender |
I've been trying to express why we do what we do... going beyond instruction |
| 23:46 |
|
a nice project by Wolfram (unfortunately not FOSS) |
| 23:46 |
|
here is a large paste |
| 23:46 |
|
Outcomes: |
| 23:46 |
|
We are aiming from more than just a program where girls learn to code. We aspire that they achieve the following outcomes (from Wolfram): |
| 23:46 |
|
Confidence to tackle new problems: being able to use tools in new contexts, read documentation, and interpret the work of others; |
| 23:46 |
|
Understanding of abstraction: filtering information, identifying concepts and tools to solve a problem; |
| 23:46 |
|
Planning and debugging: Following a process and resolving issues through debugging; |
| 23:46 |
|
Interpreting: reading common representations and making inferences; |
| 23:46 |
|
Critiquing and verifying: testing assumptions and limitations of approaches; |
| 23:46 |
|
Generalizing: drawing wider conclusions and making associations; |
| 23:47 |
|
Communicating and collaborating: presenting ideas visually, verbally, and formally; distilling ideas through group cooperation; |
| 23:47 |
|
Conceptual understanding: an ability to describe a concept and know the tools that are relevant; |
| 23:47 |
|
Tools of computation: awareness of tools that are related and their merits for a particular concept; |
| 23:47 |
|
Instinctive feel for computation: an ability to form an estimate of how an approach may be useful. |
| 23:47 |
|
I modified there goals from maths to more general |
| 23:48 |
|
It is something we offer that is not a focus of most learning projects |
| 23:48 |
|
any questions/comments about the NI trip? |
| 23:49 |
|
gonzalo_, I'll ping you about when we hope to discuss the what's new in Sugar topic |
| 23:49 |
|
and try to get you connected in a hangout |
| 23:49 |
|
also, I will be seeing dsd and hopefully learning more about his project |
| 23:50 |
|
and if there is any place for Sugar there |
| 23:50 |
gonzalo_ |
walterbender, ok, let me know what you need from my part |
| 23:50 |
|
walterbender, +1 to meet dsd |
| 23:50 |
walterbender |
gonzalo_, a few slides on what is new (in 102 and 104 since I think that they are a bit behind -- except for German) |
| 23:51 |
gonzalo_ |
walterbender, ok |
| 23:51 |
walterbender |
thanks |
| 23:51 |
|
OK... a few other things really quickly |
| 23:51 |
|
oh... |
| 23:52 |
|
#agreed that Claudia and I go to NI to discuss Sugar/OLPC future with the Zamoras |
| 23:52 |
|
#topic India/Jamaica |
| 23:52 |
|
As I reported in email and in my blog, I did Turtle Art Days in India and Jamaica |
| 23:53 |
|
Harriet V. helped with the India trip and I also spent a lot of time with Homi Bhabha Center and Tata Trust in Mumbai |
| 23:53 |
|
Homi Bhabha runs a small Sugar deployment |
| 23:54 |
|
and I discussed (am still discussing) a larger (many thousands) deployment in Assam |
| 23:54 |
|
will keep you in the loop if/as things more forward |
| 23:55 |
|
if we do it and it goes well, Tata could make it a national program... they have the resources |
| 23:55 |
|
In Jamaica, it is only Turtle for the time being... |
| 23:55 |
|
they are very excited about girls and programming |
| 23:55 |
|
but they have old Android tablets that make Sugar itself not viable at the moment |
| 23:55 |
meeting |
<Jose_Miguel-es> Excellent! |
| 23:56 |
walterbender |
(work to do in Turtle there too) |
| 23:56 |
|
but I am hoping to broaden the program over time |
| 23:56 |
|
and use it as a focal point for all of the Caribbean) |
| 23:56 |
|
again, I'll keep you in the loop |
| 23:57 |
|
One more detail: the SFC would like to have us officially approve Harriet's role in the India trip as I paid for her ticket from Delhi to Mumbai |
| 23:58 |
|
not only did she do all the prep, she also arranged free lodging, meals, and all the other local transport |
| 23:58 |
karen |
walter_: actually, seeing that she's an advisor is enough now that you've reported on the involvement here :) |
| 23:58 |
walterbender |
OK. thanks |
| 23:59 |
|
OK... next topic, quickly |
| 23:59 |
karen |
the key thing is that SLOBs is informed about what's going on |
| 23:59 |
walterbender |
#topic GSoC |
| 23:59 |
karen |
and the amounts are within the limits set in the preapproval |
| 23:59 |
|
pipes down again :) |
| 23:59 |
walterbender |
as I sent in email, we got 6 slots... |
| 00:00 |
|
(67 proposals and 17 mentors) |
| 00:00 |
|
a lot of the students who did not get accepted have contacted me to say that they plan to work on their projects anyway |
| 00:01 |
|
says a lot about their enthusiasm for Sugar and the Sugar community |
| 00:01 |
meeting |
<Jose_Miguel-es> *Yes. It is good data. |
| 00:01 |
walterbender |
they have all remarked on how supportive the community has been |
| 00:01 |
|
thank you for that |
| 00:01 |
sdanielf |
where are they from? |
| 00:01 |
walterbender |
everywhere, but mostly India |
| 00:02 |
|
another goal of mine is to broaden the pool next year |
| 00:02 |
|
tch__, has been helping me with that |
| 00:03 |
|
I also may be able to find a bit of funding for some Sugar Summer of Code students... |
| 00:03 |
CanoeBerry |
Will need to run to another meeting, are we almost done? |
| 00:03 |
walterbender |
not at the Google level, but something |
| 00:03 |
|
CanoeBerry, almost... just one more topic |
| 00:04 |
|
#topic Discuss a mechanism to document SLOBS decisions |
| 00:04 |
|
gonzalo_, ^^ |
| 00:04 |
gonzalo_ |
walterbender, yes |
| 00:04 |
walterbender |
gonzalo_, the decisions are hard to find |
| 00:04 |
|
maybe all of them need to be on one page in the wiki |
| 00:05 |
|
will take me some time to do, but I am willing |
| 00:05 |
gonzalo_ |
yes, we can depend on the memory of slobs members |
| 00:05 |
walterbender |
did you have other ideas too? |
| 00:05 |
gonzalo_ |
can't |
| 00:05 |
|
i was thinking in make a document we have stored in git |
| 00:06 |
walterbender |
gonzalo_, why git and not the wiki? |
| 00:06 |
gonzalo_ |
then, we can have the "live" decisions, and also the history of when, and why changed |
| 00:06 |
walterbender |
gonzalo_, the live decisions are in these meetings |
| 00:07 |
gonzalo_ |
we can use a simple format like .md or .rst and is visible as htl |
| 00:07 |
walterbender |
unless you think we should use git as the chatroom for our meetings too? |
| 00:07 |
gonzalo_ |
walterbender, i mean the decisions still active |
| 00:07 |
|
no |
| 00:08 |
|
we need a one page place where all the active decisions are placed |
| 00:08 |
walterbender |
I am fine using .md instead of wiki markup, but I still am confused |
| 00:08 |
gonzalo_ |
even if decided now or 3 years ago |
| 00:08 |
|
if the slobs change his mind about a topic, is discussed, and changed |
| 00:09 |
|
but by example |
| 00:09 |
walterbender |
gonzalo_, I need to go through all of the logs and pull out the decisions... |
| 00:09 |
karen |
wiki's great from our perspective - it's easy for someone not closely involved to take quick look and see what was decided |
| 00:09 |
gonzalo_ |
walterbender, there are actions like"send email to xx" that are not permanent |
| 00:10 |
walterbender |
? |
| 00:10 |
gonzalo_ |
karen, don't worry. the end result is the same |
| 00:10 |
karen |
:) |
| 00:10 |
gonzalo_ |
walterbender, but go back to the discussed example |
| 00:10 |
walterbender |
I don't understand the example |
| 00:11 |
|
is slow tonight |
| 00:11 |
gonzalo_ |
walterbender, slobs (in 2009) decided a criteria to elect new members if they miss a number of meetings |
| 00:11 |
walterbender |
yes |
| 00:11 |
CanoeBerry |
wiki is friendlier to educators (generally) |
| 00:11 |
gonzalo_ |
walterbender, that decision was only remembered by who was in that meeting |
| 00:11 |
|
i wasn't, not daniel or jose miguel |
| 00:12 |
walterbender |
gonzalo_, yes... and I agree all decisions should be in one page |
| 00:12 |
|
but I don't understand the rationale for git |
| 00:12 |
gonzalo_ |
then, only because adam pointed to that decision we started to discus it |
| 00:12 |
|
walterbender, i didn't expected need understand why git to you :) |
| 00:12 |
walterbender |
was arguing with Gary Stager about git... /me took the position that educators should learn git :) |
| 00:13 |
|
gonzalo_, I don't understand the specific goal you have in mind from git |
| 00:14 |
gonzalo_ |
walterbender, the goal is have a document _and_ a history of changes |
| 00:14 |
walterbender |
gonzalo_ the wiki provides that |
| 00:14 |
|
gonzalo_, I think a longterm goal of migrating from the wiki to git could be great |
| 00:14 |
sdanielf |
but we are enough lazy for not having one article per agreement |
| 00:15 |
walterbender |
but I dont' see the advantage here |
| 00:15 |
gonzalo_ |
ok, no problem |
| 00:15 |
|
if all prefer wiki, let's do on wiki |
| 00:15 |
CanoeBerry |
Current mechanics of a SLOBS decision are described here, in essence: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/R[…]_a_SLOBs_decision |
| 00:15 |
gonzalo_ |
is clear the goal? |
| 00:15 |
walterbender |
sdanielf, we have one log per meeting but many meetings have multiple agreements (or no agreements) |
| 00:15 |
|
gonzalo_, I think so |
| 00:16 |
|
gonzalo_, I'll work on this for next month's meeting |
| 00:16 |
|
and we can revisit |
| 00:16 |
|
OK? |
| 00:16 |
sdanielf |
the idea is to have a clear changelog for a decision, I think |
| 00:16 |
walterbender |
sdanielf, for that, one per page as you suggest is important |
| 00:16 |
meeting |
<Jose_Miguel-es> In accordance with Gonzalo that it is *dificil follow the trace of the decisions. In accordance with the argument that it is hard work... |
| 00:16 |
gonzalo_ |
if the decisons ttaken by the slobs are not on a place, for us and for all, have zero value |
| 00:17 |
|
we are on and on with the same tpics |
| 00:17 |
walterbender |
gonzalo_, point taken... |
| 00:17 |
|
let me make a first pass and we can critique it |
| 00:18 |
|
we should wrap up... we are running over |
| 00:18 |
gonzalo_ |
walterbender, thanks for taking this tasks, i know is not easy |
| 00:18 |
|
good meeting |
| 00:18 |
walterbender |
#action walter to make a first pass at culling the decisions from past meetings into one page |
| 00:18 |
|
thanks everyone for the great input tonight |
| 00:19 |
|
stay tuned for a report from NI |
| 00:19 |
|
5 |
| 00:19 |
CanoeBerry |
4 |
| 00:19 |
sdanielf |
3 |
| 00:19 |
meeting |
<Jose_Miguel-es> 2 |
| 00:19 |
gonzalo_ |
1 |
| 00:19 |
walterbender |
#end-meeting |
| 00:19 |
meeting |
Meeting ended Tue May 5 00:19:40 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 00:19 |
|
Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-04T23:07:10.html |
| 00:19 |
|
Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]15-05-04T23:07:10 |