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#sugar-meeting meeting, 2015-05-04 23:07:10

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23:07 meeting Meeting started Mon May  4 23:07:10 2015 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
23:07 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
23:07 walterbender welcome everyone
23:07 hard to believe it is already May
23:07 karen that's great about Hariet
23:07 pipes down :)
23:08 walterbender We have a lot to discuss tonight... so let's jump right in with Gonzalo and the survey
23:08 #topic Sugar deployment survey
23:08 gonzalo_, you have the floor :)
23:09 gonzalo_ thanks walterbender
23:09 question, everyone read the document with the summary of the deployment survey results?
23:10 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> If.
23:10 <Jose_Miguel-es> *Yes!
23:10 walterbender yes
23:11 gonzalo_ sdanielf, did you read it?
23:11 ClaudiaU, are you here?
23:11 CanoeBerry Late to join, hi.
23:11 walterbender no sign of ClaudiaU  or CanoeBerry yet
23:11 gonzalo_ hi CanoeBerry
23:11 walterbender oh... hi adam
23:11 gonzalo_ CanoeBerry, I was asking if all read the survey results doc
23:11 walterbender ClaudiaU read it...
23:11 CanoeBerry Hi, need to reread Gonzalo's doc.
23:11 walter_ <walter_!~walter@146-115-134-246.c3-0.nwt-ubr​1.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com> has joined #sugar-meeting
23:12 sdanielf gonzalo_: didn't have time to do a deep understanding of the survey
23:12 gonzalo_ sdanielf, CanoeBerry, please read it
23:12 walterbender I think gonzalo_ 's summary was very to the point
23:13 gonzalo_ honestly took a lot of time process the replies from everybody
23:13 karen has quit IRC
23:13 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> A big work, that sees  if it reads  the report, and besides read  the punctual answers...
23:13 karen <karen!~karen@gnome/staff/conservancy.officer.karenesq> has joined #sugar-meeting
23:13 gonzalo_ as walter said, is not something that can surprise to anybody of us, already involved in the project
23:13 but I think is a good first step to improve our communication with the deployments
23:14 CanoeBerry 4 page doc "survey_summary.odt" (or pdf) yes.
23:14 Sorry summary.odt or survey_summary.pdf
23:15 walterbender bottom line is our users like sugar, they don't communicate with us, and they don't have any funds to pay for development
23:15 gonzalo_ i would like have the ok from the SLOBs before communicate the results in the lists
23:15 walterbender gonzalo_, +1
23:15 CanoeBerry gonzalo_: ok
23:15 gonzalo_ there are a few conclussions
23:16 sdanielf +1
23:16 is still reading
23:16 gonzalo_ 1) We need improve the communication. In some cases was not clear the channel to get a reply
23:17 in other cases the respondant complain about not get a reply from sugarlabs even when someone did a efffort to go to olpc sf event
23:17 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> It hit me this answer, of not knowing which was the channel...
23:17 walterbender the confusion between Sugar and OLPC still is a problem for us
23:17 gonzalo_ while the different groups in the community are connected, we need make clear what are our events, and where ask a question
23:18 walterbender before I forget
23:18 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> In accordance with walterbender
23:18 walterbender #agreed to share survey results with community
23:18 gonzalo_ maybe walter or alan can check my english mistakes....
23:19 walterbender gonzalo_, it is fine...
23:20 regarding the OLPC/Sugar confusion, even today many SL community members are only interested in supporting OLPC hardward (XO-1)
23:20 gonzalo_ walterbender, if is the hardware they have....
23:20 walterbender yes
23:20 I am not saying they are wrong...
23:20 just stating the facts
23:20 gonzalo_ is a logic concern
23:21 hopefully we have good news about that
23:21 but let finish the first point first
23:21 are we voting about share the results, right?
23:21 CanoeBerry i think so
23:22 walterbender yes... we agreed... 5 votes in favor
23:22 CanoeBerry confirmed yes
23:22 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> *Yes
23:22 gonzalo_ ok
23:22 I will send it later to iaep and sugar-devel
23:22 may i propose a few actions?
23:23 walterbender and sur if you can... /me cannot write to that list any more :(
23:23 gonzalo_ yes, i can
23:23 walterbender #action gonzalo to post results
23:23 sdanielf walterbender: what happened with sur?
23:24 walterbender I get bounces when I try to post
23:24 gonzalo_, what actions do you have in mind?
23:26 gonzalo_ 1) send a mail saying tank you to everybody who replied
23:26 walterbender +1
23:26 sdanielf the list is _inactive_, there's a lot of spam in the moderation queue and I don't check it very often :S
23:27 gonzalo_ (i want thank here too to alan, walter and claudia who contacted most of the deployments)
23:27 walterbender gonzalo_, our job...
23:27 gonzalo_ 2) use that mail to clarify communication issues eveident in particular replies
23:28 walterbender +1
23:28 maybe we can work on that language together
23:28 gonzalo_ ok
23:29 one of the tasks i wanted propose was work in  fix the problem with Browse on XO-1, a big blocker
23:29 walterbender yes...
23:29 I am very encouraged by the latest results
23:29 gonzalo_ and james and I were working in two different approach and looks like we have results already
23:29 CanoeBerry I'm presuming it's not just an XO-1 problem?
23:30 gonzalo_ CanoeBerry, this is particular to xo-1
23:30 walterbender CanoeBerry, there are other problems... but a major on specific to XO-1
23:30 gonzalo_ at least we don't have reports of the same in other hardware
23:30 walterbender before I forget
23:30 CanoeBerry OK, seems to correspond to the many recent releases on other platforms @ http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Releases
23:31 walterbender #action gonzalo to write to each of the respondents
23:31 gonzalo_ two more proposals:
23:31 we need work in sugar ina vm
23:31 finally:
23:32 i am wondering if a meet event could help to improve communication
23:32 walterbender gonzalo_, you mean a prepackaged VM image?
23:32 gonzalo_ yes
23:32 walterbender we used something like that at one of my workshops in India... worked well
23:33 saved the Virtual Box machine with Sugar loaded
23:33 and copied it to other machines
23:33 was easier than installing each time
23:33 gonzalo_ and run in multiple os....
23:33 walterbender only tried it on Windows
23:34 but we could just save multiple VMs
23:35 gonzalo_, maybe something we can work on as part of the 106 release
23:35 ^^ tch__
23:35 gonzalo_ walterbender, yes
23:35 walterbender gonzalo_, are you suggesting a meeting inviting all the deployments?
23:35 would be great
23:35 gonzalo_ walterbender, yes
23:35 walterbender maybe something to add to the discussion next week in Managua
23:36 gonzalo_ +1
23:37 walterbender anything else re the survey topic?
23:38 OK
23:38 let's jump to the next topic
23:39 #topic Future of Sugar discussion in Managua
23:39 ClaudiaU and I were invited by the Zamoras to come to Managua to discuss the future of Sugar
23:39 as you know, they have taking over ownership of OLPC
23:40 so the question is what relationship do they want to have with Sugar going forward
23:40 I would first like to get official approval for this trip
23:41 It is in part a planning session for Turtle Art Day, which has been approved, but the theme has changed enough that I want to get your input and approval
23:41 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> +1
23:41 gonzalo_ walterbender, is a opportunity we can't waste
23:41 walterbender +1 from me... it is critical
23:41 gonzalo_ +1 from my part
23:42 CanoeBerry Turtle Art Day is also in Managua, but at a diff time?
23:42 sdanielf +1
23:42 walterbender I'll ask ClaudiaU to email her +1 to the list
23:42 CanoeBerry, we were going to do it at the same time, but it morphed into a planning meeting
23:42 so I'll have to go back again
23:42 CanoeBerry OK
23:43 walterbender they couldn't decide on the date but they want to do it
23:43 CanoeBerry +1 what are the rough dates of each trip to NI?
23:43 walterbender the first trip is this week... we go to Miami and hitch a ride on the Zamora's private plane
23:44 gonzalo_ :)
23:44 walterbender the second trip will be decided when we are down there
23:44 tch__ walterbender, +1 on VMs, btw, the spanish translation of the document is done
23:44 walterbender tch__, thanks
23:44 tch__, I have one more thing I'd like translated... 8 bullet items
23:44 let me share it here as it is relevant to the discussion we'll be having
23:44 tch__ walterbender, can you add it to the document?
23:45 walterbender tch__, added
23:45 tch__ walterbender, thanks ;)
23:46 walterbender I've been trying to express why we do what we do... going beyond instruction
23:46 a nice project by Wolfram (unfortunately not FOSS)
23:46 here is a large paste
23:46 Outcomes:
23:46 We are aiming from more than just a program where girls learn to code. We aspire that they achieve the following outcomes (from Wolfram):
23:46 Confidence to tackle new problems: being able to use tools in new contexts, read documentation, and interpret the work of others;
23:46 Understanding of abstraction: filtering information, identifying concepts and tools to solve a problem;
23:46 Planning and debugging: Following a process and resolving issues through debugging;
23:46 Interpreting: reading common representations and making inferences;
23:46 Critiquing and verifying: testing assumptions and limitations of approaches;
23:46 Generalizing: drawing wider conclusions and making associations;
23:47 Communicating and collaborating: presenting ideas visually, verbally, and formally; distilling ideas through group cooperation;
23:47 Conceptual understanding: an ability to describe a concept and know the tools that are relevant;
23:47 Tools of computation: awareness of tools that are related and their merits for a particular concept;
23:47 Instinctive feel for computation: an ability to form an estimate of how an approach may be useful.
23:47 I modified there goals from maths to more general
23:48 It is something we offer that is not a focus of most learning projects
23:48 any questions/comments about the NI trip?
23:49 gonzalo_, I'll ping you about when we hope to discuss the what's new in Sugar topic
23:49 and try to get you connected in a hangout
23:49 also, I will be seeing dsd and hopefully learning more about his project
23:50 and if there is any place for Sugar there
23:50 gonzalo_ walterbender, ok, let me know what you need from my part
23:50 walterbender, +1 to meet dsd
23:50 walterbender gonzalo_, a few slides on what is new (in 102 and 104 since I think that they are a bit behind -- except for German)
23:51 gonzalo_ walterbender, ok
23:51 walterbender thanks
23:51 OK... a few other things really quickly
23:51 oh...
23:52 #agreed that Claudia and I go to NI to discuss Sugar/OLPC future with the Zamoras
23:52 #topic India/Jamaica
23:52 As I reported in email and in my blog, I did Turtle Art Days in India and Jamaica
23:53 Harriet V. helped with the India trip and I also spent a lot of time with Homi Bhabha Center and Tata Trust in Mumbai
23:53 Homi Bhabha runs a small Sugar deployment
23:54 and I discussed (am still discussing) a larger (many thousands) deployment in Assam
23:54 will keep you in the loop if/as things more forward
23:55 if we do it and it goes well, Tata could make it a national program... they have the resources
23:55 In Jamaica, it is only Turtle for the time being...
23:55 they are very excited about girls and programming
23:55 but they have old Android tablets that make Sugar itself not viable at the moment
23:55 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> Excellent!
23:56 walterbender (work to do in Turtle there too)
23:56 but I am hoping to broaden the program over time
23:56 and use it as a focal point for all of the Caribbean)
23:56 again, I'll keep you in the loop
23:57 One more detail: the SFC would like to have us officially approve Harriet's role in the India trip as I paid for her ticket from Delhi to Mumbai
23:58 not only did she do all the prep, she also arranged free lodging, meals, and all the other local transport
23:58 karen walter_: actually, seeing that she's an advisor is enough now that you've reported on the involvement here :)
23:58 walterbender OK. thanks
23:59 OK... next topic, quickly
23:59 karen the key thing is that SLOBs is informed about what's going on
23:59 walterbender #topic GSoC
23:59 karen and the amounts are within the limits set in the preapproval
23:59 pipes down again :)
23:59 walterbender as I sent in email, we got 6 slots...
00:00 (67 proposals and 17 mentors)
00:00 a lot of the students who did not get accepted have contacted me to say that they plan to work on their projects anyway
00:01 says a lot about their enthusiasm for Sugar and the Sugar community
00:01 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> *Yes. It is good data.
00:01 walterbender they have all remarked on how supportive the community has been
00:01 thank you for that
00:01 sdanielf where are they from?
00:01 walterbender everywhere, but mostly India
00:02 another goal of mine is to broaden the pool next year
00:02 tch__, has been helping me with that
00:03 I also may be able to find a bit of funding for some Sugar Summer of Code students...
00:03 CanoeBerry Will need to run to another meeting, are we almost done?
00:03 walterbender not at the Google level, but something
00:03 CanoeBerry, almost... just one more topic
00:04 #topic Discuss a mechanism to document SLOBS decisions
00:04 gonzalo_, ^^
00:04 gonzalo_ walterbender, yes
00:04 walterbender gonzalo_, the decisions are hard to find
00:04 maybe all of them need to be on one page in the wiki
00:05 will take me some time to do, but I am willing
00:05 gonzalo_ yes, we can depend on the memory of slobs members
00:05 walterbender did you have other ideas too?
00:05 gonzalo_ can't
00:05 i was thinking in make a document we have stored in git
00:06 walterbender gonzalo_, why git and not the wiki?
00:06 gonzalo_ then, we can have the "live" decisions, and also the history of when, and why changed
00:06 walterbender gonzalo_, the live decisions are in these meetings
00:07 gonzalo_ we can use a simple format like .md or .rst and is visible as htl
00:07 walterbender unless you think we should use git as the chatroom for our meetings too?
00:07 gonzalo_ walterbender, i mean the decisions still active
00:07 no
00:08 we need a one page place where all the active decisions are placed
00:08 walterbender I am fine using .md instead of wiki markup, but I still am confused
00:08 gonzalo_ even if decided now or 3 years ago
00:08 if the slobs change his mind about a topic, is discussed, and changed
00:09 but by example
00:09 walterbender gonzalo_, I need to go through all of the logs and pull out the decisions...
00:09 karen wiki's great from our perspective - it's easy for someone not closely involved to take quick look and see what was decided
00:09 gonzalo_ walterbender, there are actions like"send email to xx" that are not permanent
00:10 walterbender ?
00:10 gonzalo_ karen, don't worry. the end result is the same
00:10 karen :)
00:10 gonzalo_ walterbender, but go back to the discussed example
00:10 walterbender I don't understand the example
00:11 is slow tonight
00:11 gonzalo_ walterbender, slobs (in 2009) decided a criteria to elect new members if they miss a number of meetings
00:11 walterbender yes
00:11 CanoeBerry wiki is friendlier to educators (generally)
00:11 gonzalo_ walterbender, that decision was only remembered by who was in that meeting
00:11 i wasn't, not daniel or jose miguel
00:12 walterbender gonzalo_, yes... and I agree all decisions should be in one page
00:12 but I don't understand the rationale for git
00:12 gonzalo_ then, only because adam pointed to that decision we started to discus it
00:12 walterbender, i didn't expected need understand why git to you :)
00:12 walterbender was arguing with Gary Stager about git... /me took the position that educators should learn git :)
00:13 gonzalo_, I don't understand the specific goal you have in mind from git
00:14 gonzalo_ walterbender, the goal is have a document _and_ a history of changes
00:14 walterbender gonzalo_ the wiki provides that
00:14 gonzalo_, I think a longterm goal of migrating from the wiki to git could be great
00:14 sdanielf but we are enough lazy for not having one article per agreement
00:15 walterbender but I dont' see the advantage here
00:15 gonzalo_ ok, no problem
00:15 if all prefer wiki, let's do on wiki
00:15 CanoeBerry Current mechanics of a SLOBS decision are described here, in essence: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/R[…]_a_SLOBs_decision
00:15 gonzalo_ is clear the goal?
00:15 walterbender sdanielf, we have one log per meeting but many meetings have multiple agreements (or no agreements)
00:15 gonzalo_, I think so
00:16 gonzalo_, I'll work on this for next month's meeting
00:16 and we can revisit
00:16 OK?
00:16 sdanielf the idea is to have a clear changelog for a decision, I think
00:16 walterbender sdanielf, for that, one per page as you suggest is important
00:16 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> In accordance with Gonzalo that it is *dificil follow the trace of the decisions. In accordance with the argument that it is hard work...
00:16 gonzalo_ if the decisons ttaken by the slobs are not on a place, for us and for all, have zero value
00:17 we are on and on with the same tpics
00:17 walterbender gonzalo_, point taken...
00:17 let me make a first pass and we can critique it
00:18 we should wrap up... we are running over
00:18 gonzalo_ walterbender, thanks for taking this tasks, i know is not easy
00:18 good meeting
00:18 walterbender #action walter to make a first pass at culling the decisions from past meetings into one page
00:18 thanks everyone for the great input tonight
00:19 stay tuned for a report from NI
00:19 5
00:19 CanoeBerry 4
00:19 sdanielf 3
00:19 meeting <Jose_Miguel-es> 2
00:19 gonzalo_ 1
00:19 walterbender #end-meeting
00:19 meeting Meeting ended Tue May  5 00:19:40 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
00:19 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-04T23:07:10.html
00:19 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]15-05-04T23:07:10

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