| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 21:03 |
meeting |
Meeting started Sat Apr 11 21:03:12 2015 UTC. The chair is tch__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 21:03 |
|
Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting |
| 21:03 |
tch__ |
Hello everyone, thanks for coming :) |
| 21:03 |
|
I prepared a few topics... |
| 21:04 |
|
* define freezes deadlines |
| 21:04 |
|
* revisit unmerged features |
| 21:04 |
|
* review our upstreaming and reviewing process |
| 21:04 |
|
* provisions for the testing team |
| 21:05 |
|
Is anyone interested in adding another topic? I think will be lucky to cover these :) |
| 21:05 |
|
german <german!~german 190.212.12.114> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 21:05 |
tch__ |
german, hola! |
| 21:05 |
samdroid |
tch__: sounds good! |
| 21:06 |
german |
hola tch__ ya iniciaron? |
| 21:06 |
tch__ |
german, samdroid walterbender Cerlyn jo0nas ping |
| 21:06 |
walterbender |
I'm here |
| 21:06 |
tch__ |
german, yes, we just did, you got just in time :) |
| 21:06 |
samdroid |
pong |
| 21:06 |
jo0nas |
pong |
| 21:06 |
walterbender |
german, did I convince you re GSoC? |
| 21:06 |
german |
walterbender, yes, also i get 2 more people :) |
| 21:07 |
samdroid |
tch__: Do you want to start the meeting? |
| 21:07 |
tch__ |
we already did, |
| 21:07 |
|
:) |
| 21:07 |
|
#topic define freezes deadlines |
| 21:07 |
walterbender |
german, great... please add yourselves to http://www.google-melange.com/[…]e/google/gsoc2015 ASAP |
| 21:08 |
tch__ |
well, based on the conversations from the last meeting, we generally agreed on making a short cycle this time for 0.106... |
| 21:08 |
|
the idea to focus generally on stabilization |
| 21:08 |
|
I propose something like: |
| 21:08 |
|
deadlines: final release (30/06/2015), code (20/06/2015), string+ui+api (30/05/2015) and features (15/05/2015). |
| 21:09 |
|
if anyone has questions regarding the meaning of these deadlines feel free to ask.. |
| 21:09 |
walterbender |
so we have 1 month for features |
| 21:10 |
tch__ |
yes, think is too short? |
| 21:10 |
walterbender |
no... it will keep us focused |
| 21:11 |
tch__ |
yeah, I think so too, |
| 21:11 |
Cerlyn |
Is that too short to match the GSoC schedule, or will the students working on new functionality post-0.106 not be a distraction? |
| 21:11 |
tch__ |
anyone else? |
| 21:11 |
|
Cerlyn, students are focused on javascript this year :) |
| 21:11 |
samdroid |
Cerlyn: Looking at the calender, |
| 21:11 |
tch__ |
Cerlyn, so very low incidence in this release |
| 21:11 |
walterbender |
Cerlyn, I don't think we can count on GSoC for 106 |
| 21:11 |
samdroid |
Cerlyn: I think that they have their mid-term evaluation after the release |
| 21:12 |
|
So everyone is happy with tch__'s suggestion? |
| 21:12 |
tch__ |
if we do something for sugar (python) it will make ese to add it to 0.108, since there will be enough time for polishing, testing etc.. GSoC usually brings new features |
| 21:13 |
|
samdroid, maybe we can vote? :) |
| 21:13 |
|
i say +1 |
| 21:13 |
walterbender |
+1 |
| 21:13 |
samdroid |
+1 |
| 21:14 |
jo0nas |
+0 (i.e. I abstain) |
| 21:14 |
tch__ |
haha, |
| 21:14 |
jo0nas |
...but in a positive spirit, so positive zero! |
| 21:14 |
german |
i say +1 |
| 21:15 |
tch__ |
german, great, there is a special topic for testing we can talk then about how we can coordinate with you based on these deadlines |
| 21:15 |
|
#action DEADLINES final release (30/06/2015), code (20/06/2015), string+ui+api (30/05/2015) and features (15/05/2015). |
| 21:15 |
|
1 sec phone.. |
| 21:16 |
|
back, sorry! |
| 21:17 |
|
#topic revisit unmerged features from 0.104 |
| 21:17 |
|
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.104/Feature_List |
| 21:17 |
icarito |
hi, i'm late - reading backlog |
| 21:17 |
tch__ |
I know gonzalo is interested in continuing his performance work for the journal |
| 21:18 |
samdroid |
tch__: And all the little GCI things? https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/pulls/ |
| 21:18 |
walterbender |
our big issue IMHO is design review |
| 21:19 |
tch__ |
samdroid, we should revise these too, but the important thing is to prioritize features that are backup by people willing to code, specially since the feature freeze deadline is in 1 month |
| 21:19 |
samdroid |
walterbender: +1 |
| 21:19 |
|
tch__: yeah |
| 21:19 |
tch__ |
walterbender, if we stick to this deadline, then we should start with the design (yesterday) :) |
| 21:20 |
|
#action ping people interested in adding features in this release to share their current design in ML? |
| 21:20 |
|
so we can start discussing ASAP |
| 21:20 |
|
darkprince <darkprince!~darkprinc2406:5600:1a:1ed:9043:2e00:ea78:861b> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 21:20 |
samdroid |
Ok, going from the top: |
| 21:20 |
walterbender |
who will review the designs? |
| 21:20 |
samdroid |
* Join limites is merged |
| 21:21 |
|
* Update favourites is merged? walterbender? |
| 21:21 |
tch__ |
walterbender, well, we don't have a formal design team anymore |
| 21:21 |
|
walterbender, so it will be us... |
| 21:21 |
samdroid |
* The activity intents has a patch, demo but not a pull request? |
| 21:22 |
|
https://github.com/manuq/sugar[…]activity?expand=1 |
| 21:22 |
walterbender |
tch__, can we take an action to make a new design team? |
| 21:22 |
samdroid |
https://github.com/sugarlabs/s[…]activity?expand=1 |
| 21:22 |
tch__ |
#action recruit a new design team ! |
| 21:22 |
|
do you know anyone who could be interested? |
| 21:22 |
|
everyone* |
| 21:22 |
icarito |
is this something subject to recruiting? |
| 21:22 |
|
i'm just saying, sugar's design is pretty special |
| 21:23 |
tch__ |
icarito, well, someone has a to step in |
| 21:23 |
icarito |
i'm just wondering if a simple call for volunteers will suffice |
| 21:23 |
tch__ |
I was referring to recruiting for the team, does not mean it has to necessary be some one new to sugar |
| 21:24 |
samdroid |
tch__: But new people is good :) |
| 21:24 |
tch__ |
samdroid, of course, but is not a requirement |
| 21:24 |
|
that is all I am saying |
| 21:24 |
|
;) |
| 21:24 |
icarito |
tch__, it would be good if we had some goals, with design restraints / guidelines |
| 21:24 |
|
it would be simpler for a design team |
| 21:24 |
tch__ |
icarito, do you want to volunteer to prepare something like that? |
| 21:25 |
|
icarito, to prepare the guidelines at lines, |
| 21:25 |
|
at least* |
| 21:25 |
icarito |
* simpler for a design team if development team or feature owners would have specific objectives |
| 21:26 |
tch__ |
icarito, we have a lot of docs regarding design, made by Gary M. |
| 21:26 |
icarito |
for a volunteer design team is that volunteer developers will work on their pet projects |
| 21:26 |
tch__ |
icarito, the issue is no one has the time to revise that and update it |
| 21:26 |
icarito |
so an overarching vision is important |
| 21:26 |
tch__ |
time or the will.. |
| 21:27 |
|
icarito, of course, but someone has to step in or someone should look for the people who can do it, |
| 21:27 |
|
icarito, want to help with that? |
| 21:28 |
icarito |
tch__, I would but I'm afraid my design views might not be 100% the same as the original designers |
| 21:28 |
tch__ |
icarito, I would love to convince manu and gary to come back ;) |
| 21:28 |
|
anyway, I think we have stated the importance of this topic... |
| 21:28 |
|
lets move on |
| 21:28 |
samdroid |
icarito: Changing the style a bit isn't a harrible thing! It makes everything feel fresh! Anyway, it is what they do in android and GNOME :) |
| 21:29 |
|
tch__: Can I ask you... |
| 21:29 |
|
tch__: Manuq made a nice looking intent system |
| 21:29 |
|
tch__: https://github.com/manuq/sugar[…]activity?expand=1 |
| 21:29 |
|
tch__: https://github.com/sugarlabs/s[…]activity?expand=1 |
| 21:29 |
|
tch__: But there was no pr |
| 21:29 |
|
tch__: Was there something that was horribly wrong? |
| 21:30 |
tch__ |
samdroid, honestly, I barely remember, if you think it is worth to look at it, can you help? |
| 21:30 |
|
darkprince has quit IRC |
| 21:30 |
samdroid |
tch__: Yeah |
| 21:30 |
tch__ |
samdroid, awesome, |
| 21:30 |
icarito |
sorry I have a question, do we still support bitfrost? |
| 21:30 |
samdroid |
#action sam to review the intent system |
| 21:30 |
icarito |
i.e. sandboxes and other stuff? |
| 21:31 |
Cerlyn |
I don't think bitfrost has been turned on since the early days of Sugar |
| 21:31 |
tch__ |
samdroid, walterbender, icarito maybe we can distribute the review of previous feature proposals between us? |
| 21:31 |
samdroid |
tch__: ok |
| 21:31 |
walterbender |
+1 |
| 21:32 |
icarito |
tch__, I can do my part but it will be first time reviewing |
| 21:32 |
tch__ |
#action ok, ill make a list and send it to the ML with suggestions of who could review it (nothing written in stones thouh) |
| 21:32 |
|
icarito, :) |
| 21:34 |
|
icarito, regarding the feature you mention to select language during first boot, do you someone who can work on that? |
| 21:34 |
|
(I am missing a lot of words, haha) |
| 21:34 |
icarito |
tch__, it would be me, although alsroot has manifested interest in this feature |
| 21:34 |
tch__ |
icarito, can you prepare a feature entry for http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features ? |
| 21:35 |
icarito |
1m is a short timewindow but I think I can make it |
| 21:35 |
tch__ |
icarito, nice! will be awesome to see alsroot contributing again |
| 21:35 |
icarito |
I think I'll update original Feature page written by alsroot in 2011 |
| 21:35 |
tch__ |
haha, that works |
| 21:36 |
|
ok, lets move on to the next topic... |
| 21:36 |
samdroid |
tch__, walterbender: what is your opinion on the cordova feature? |
| 21:36 |
|
It seems to be attracting lots of GSoC projects, but it is not merged! |
| 21:37 |
tch__ |
samdroid, I think it had some technical issue to resolve, |
| 21:37 |
|
samdroid, gonzalo reviewed it |
| 21:37 |
|
the feature itself makes sense, considering we are going for javascript... |
| 21:38 |
|
samdroid, lets leave the discussion for the ML? |
| 21:38 |
samdroid |
tch__: ok. From my memory it was such a mess :) |
| 21:38 |
|
#action discuss cordova on the ml |
| 21:38 |
|
or, just 1 more thing... |
| 21:38 |
|
walterbender: How is bulitin board going? |
| 21:38 |
tch__ |
my email will hopefully a bunch of these reviewing processes haha |
| 21:38 |
walterbender |
I'd like to finish the chat overlay for 106 |
| 21:39 |
|
but not the other features |
| 21:39 |
samdroid |
yeah |
| 21:39 |
tch__ |
walterbender, ok! |
| 21:40 |
|
next topic is.. |
| 21:40 |
|
#topic review our upstreaming and reviewing process |
| 21:40 |
icarito |
walterbender, chat overlay would be for share activities, and also for neighbourhood / groups view? |
| 21:40 |
|
was reading the old HIG |
| 21:40 |
samdroid |
tch__: We have a review process? Do we have like some standard? |
| 21:41 |
walterbender |
icarito, it is for shared activities |
| 21:41 |
tch__ |
A few years ago we had formal reviewing process, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/D[…]_Team/Code_Review |
| 21:41 |
walterbender |
we have chat itself otherwise |
| 21:41 |
icarito |
walterbender, in the original HIG it describes an overlay for each view |
| 21:42 |
tch__ |
when we switched to Github most of the reviewing process moved to Github, and I personall think it is for good.. |
| 21:42 |
icarito |
where participants would be according to the view scope |
| 21:42 |
walterbender |
icarito, I'll take a look... but I won't be doing that for 106 |
| 21:42 |
samdroid |
tch__: We definatly don't add everything to the bug tracker these days :) |
| 21:42 |
icarito |
I just mention it because it was prominent in the HIGs and sounded like a great feature to look forward to |
| 21:42 |
samdroid |
tch__: Not that trac makes you wanna use it |
| 21:43 |
walterbender |
FWIW, there is someone working on adding paint back into Chat... a feature we lost circa 2007 |
| 21:43 |
tch__ |
now, we an informal way of doing it, which is OK too, but would be good to have some basic formality, ie., like having a peer to review it.. and also update that page.. |
| 21:43 |
|
walterbender, icarito any thoughts on this? :) |
| 21:43 |
|
samdroid, ^ |
| 21:44 |
|
we don't have the same amount of developers as we did, but would be good to put it d.sl.o at least |
| 21:44 |
walterbender |
I think we should leverage the github infrastructure if only because we a re short of hands to maintain our own |
| 21:44 |
samdroid |
tch__: IMHO, most of the stuff that isn't about sending the patches to the ml pretty common sense |
| 21:45 |
tch__ |
samdroid, "common sense is the least of senses" |
| 21:45 |
|
haha |
| 21:45 |
samdroid |
:) |
| 21:45 |
tch__ |
terrible translation, but is true |
| 21:45 |
icarito |
least common |
| 21:45 |
tch__ |
icarito, thanks ;) |
| 21:45 |
samdroid |
But we could just bottle up all your advice that you give on github tch__ and post it on that page! |
| 21:45 |
walterbender |
called common because it is so rare |
| 21:46 |
samdroid |
"Inspirational Quotes From Tch" |
| 21:46 |
tch__ |
samdroid, that would suck, |
| 21:46 |
walterbender |
tch__, as I feared I need to disappear in a few minutes |
| 21:46 |
samdroid |
But you and gonzalo give lots of good advice :) |
| 21:46 |
walterbender |
"That would Suck: Inspirational Quotes from TCH" |
| 21:46 |
tch__ |
samdroid, but I don't know, just a couple lines saying "hey send your PR, your commit message must look somewhat like this, and you need one maintainer to ACK it" |
| 21:47 |
|
walterbender, one more thing, |
| 21:47 |
|
before you go, |
| 21:47 |
walterbender |
to me the place we break down in is the quality of the commit messages |
| 21:47 |
samdroid |
tch__: And we could probably keep most of the "Proposal" section |
| 21:48 |
|
tch__: BTW: we need to put a link to where ever out guide is in a file "CONTRIBUTING.md" |
| 21:48 |
tch__ |
walterbender, icarito samdroid also, can we agree on "we use github merge" vs "we merge it manually and then push"? |
| 21:48 |
walterbender |
tch__, I never understood why we were insisting on manual merges |
| 21:48 |
samdroid |
tch__: Because github puts a bubble above the pull request window that says "Hey, you should read CONTRIBUTING.md" |
| 21:48 |
|
tch__: "we merge it manually and then push" |
| 21:49 |
icarito |
tch__, i don't expect it will be me doing the merging but if I run into it i'll pay attention :-) |
| 21:49 |
tch__ |
samdroid, as long as is visible I am ok.. I would prefer to have in d.sl.o |
| 21:49 |
samdroid |
'cause you can't test if you juct click a button! |
| 21:49 |
tch__ |
one place, to find these things |
| 21:49 |
samdroid |
tch__: Yeah, but put a link... |
| 21:49 |
|
in the file |
| 21:49 |
walterbender |
samdroid, presumably we are not merging without testing |
| 21:49 |
tch__ |
walterbender, hopefully not, |
| 21:49 |
|
but my point is, can we agree on doing it in one way? |
| 21:50 |
walterbender |
but sometimes it is PITA to do the manual merge |
| 21:50 |
|
tch__, I defer to you as release manager |
| 21:50 |
tch__ |
walterbender, I think Daniel N. presented different alternatives to do it, |
| 21:51 |
|
#action I will review Daniel's proposals and others to get a friendly but unified way or merging changes |
| 21:51 |
walterbender |
need to go... will read the log |
| 21:51 |
tch__ |
walterbender, ok, thanks for coming walter! |
| 21:51 |
|
we are running out of time, lets move to the last topic ;) |
| 21:52 |
|
#topic provisions for the testing team. |
| 21:52 |
|
german, you still there? :) |
| 21:52 |
|
german, if I understood correctly, you volunteer to coordinate tests hehe |
| 21:52 |
|
german, is that correct? |
| 21:52 |
german |
yes tch__ |
| 21:52 |
tch__ |
german, is there anything you need from us? |
| 21:53 |
german |
i will create a team here in nicaragua for testing this new version of sugar |
| 21:54 |
tch__ |
german, awesome, can you prepare some description on how you plan to do that? |
| 21:54 |
german |
all tickets are on bugs.sugarlabs.org? |
| 21:54 |
samdroid |
german: yeah |
| 21:54 |
|
german: all the bug tickets |
| 21:55 |
tch__ |
german, yes, you could use a special tag for your tickets maybe? |
| 21:55 |
german |
ok, i can do that, let me talk with this people next week and i will send an email on sl-ml |
| 21:55 |
tch__ |
german, great, keep in mind the deadlines we mentioned earlier |
| 21:56 |
|
german, and try to think what kind of assistance you need from us, ie., images for xos? |
| 21:57 |
german |
i need a repo with development package of sugar |
| 21:57 |
tch__ |
german, for what platform? |
| 21:58 |
german |
so i can create images for XO's, also for code deadline i can create a beta image and test it with teachers and kids |
| 21:58 |
tch__ |
german, that would be ideal! |
| 21:58 |
Cerlyn |
which Fedora/Ubuntu version(s) |
| 21:58 |
tch__ |
Cerlyn, good question |
| 21:58 |
german |
right now xo4 i based on f20 |
| 21:59 |
tch__ |
is anyone else interested in something like this? |
| 21:59 |
Cerlyn |
My primary desktop is back online after a hardware failure so I could focus on building generic images again (if anyone actually is looking at them) |
| 21:59 |
tch__ |
Cerlyn, generic based on? |
| 21:59 |
german |
i think that 1.5 xo is faster to create images, but i will try to support 1.75 and 4 |
| 22:00 |
tch__ |
satellit_e, provides fedora packages always available in koji |
| 22:00 |
Cerlyn |
tch__: Not deployment specific; I've been doing F20, although painfully through ARM emulation |
| 22:00 |
tch__ |
jo0nas, is working on debian packages now :) |
| 22:00 |
|
quidam, provides packages for trisquel |
| 22:01 |
jo0nas |
technically I've worked on that since 2008, but yes - I am (quite) more active now again |
| 22:01 |
tch__ |
Cerlyn, want to volunteer to get these packages for german? |
| 22:01 |
|
jo0nas, sorry, yes, I should have said "updated packages now" |
| 22:01 |
icarito |
i'm proud to have written and motivated jo0nas |
| 22:01 |
tch__ |
haha |
| 22:02 |
jo0nas |
:-) |
| 22:02 |
|
I am happy there is an interest in the Debian work |
| 22:02 |
Cerlyn |
tch__: I'm not that familiar with RPM packaging; would have to look into it |
| 22:02 |
|
I'm having enough fun reverse engineering what OLPC did since they don't say much publicly |
| 22:02 |
tch__ |
Cerlyn, we can help, gonzalo and I are very familiar with that |
| 22:03 |
jo0nas |
I lost interest in the past as I felt few really cared about Debian in the Sugar community |
| 22:03 |
Cerlyn |
We really need to get pbrobinson backup as well |
| 22:03 |
tch__ |
yes |
| 22:03 |
Cerlyn |
s/backup/additional help/ (clarification) |
| 22:03 |
tch__ |
absolutely |
| 22:04 |
|
Cerlyn, give it a thought and write to me if you are interested |
| 22:04 |
Cerlyn |
ok |
| 22:04 |
tch__ |
Cerlyn, thanks! |
| 22:05 |
|
well, I think we ran out of time, sorry if I had to speed up things! but we miraculously covered all topic I prepared..,most of the details can be extended in ML |
| 22:05 |
jo0nas |
Let me mention - for the record - that Debian packaging is from now on done in a Sugar Team: https://wiki.debian.org/SugarTeam |
| 22:05 |
|
...for those interested in following that more closely |
| 22:05 |
tch__ |
#action german is sending a email to the ML with details for the testing |
| 22:06 |
|
#action we should provide packages for german for XO4 fc20 |
| 22:06 |
|
jo0nas, thanks for that :) |
| 22:06 |
jo0nas |
s/a Sugar Team/the newly formed Debian Sugar Team/ |
| 22:07 |
tch__ |
is there anything to add before I end this meeting? |
| 22:07 |
jo0nas |
like the old OLPC Team it still basically consists of me - but several of you here have shown interest |
| 22:07 |
tch__ |
jo0nas, gabble collaboration is working again ;) its actually running pretty good! |
| 22:08 |
jo0nas |
good to hear! |
| 22:08 |
tch__ |
jo0nas, walterbender samdroid Cerlyn german icarito thanks for coming! |
| 22:08 |
german |
tch__, nothing from mi side :) |
| 22:08 |
tch__ |
ok, lets count down! |
| 22:08 |
|
5 |
| 22:09 |
icarito |
thanks everybody |
| 22:09 |
samdroid |
4 |
| 22:09 |
jo0nas |
3 |
| 22:09 |
tch__ |
2 ;) |
| 22:09 |
german |
1 |
| 22:09 |
jo0nas |
icarito: zero is still vacant |
| 22:09 |
icarito |
0! |
| 22:09 |
tch__ |
#endmeeting |
| 22:09 |
meeting |
Meeting ended Sat Apr 11 22:09:45 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 22:09 |
|
Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-11T21:03:12.html |
| 22:09 |
|
Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]15-04-11T21:03:12 |