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#sugar-meeting meeting, 2013-02-13 16:04:45

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16:04 meeting Meeting started Wed Feb 13 16:04:45 2013 UTC. The chair is SeanDaly. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:04 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
16:05 SeanDaly thanks for coming
16:05 JT4sugar Hello All
16:05 SeanDaly I'd like to do a quick debrief of Google Code-In (GCI) PR
16:05 has a report to share with you...
16:06 while report is uploading I will say...
16:07 that the PR was completely ignored in the USA, Europe, Asia, & Africa
16:08 However, the "local lad" effect was very strong in Uruguay (I also pushed story to every news outlet I could locate, perhaps 20 or more)
16:08 walterbender SeanDaly: why no pickup in India?
16:09 SeanDaly Aguz's great photo (which media lifted from his FB page) played a key role, and
16:09 having a Spanish translation was critical
16:09 walterbender: it's always difficult to predict why sthing is "not" news, but
16:10 I believe the lack of a punchy photo played a role; I had also pushed story to India media outlets
16:11 I have just shared doc with you, take brief look please
16:12 walterbender SeanDaly: have you seen the picture I have from last summer from India?
16:12 the kid with the touch screen?
16:12 awesome picture
16:12 SeanDaly walterbender... not sure
16:13 there were some shots framed ok, but too dark
16:14 if you are looking at report, I was very surprised that the PR was read by over 100 PRNewswire subscribers
16:14 journalists & bloggers usually detest PR and only pay attention when big new product or big economic impact
16:15 if you look at map on page 4, no LatAm journalists of that 100; normal since we didn't put Spanish version on wire
16:16 so we may want to re-examine publishing on Spanish wire simultaneously. Not an easy decision since costly; my idea would be to negotiate that within our forfeit (we have 9 PRs credit)
16:17 by the way map shows some journalists in India did look at it; but to my knowledge didn't pick it up
16:18 walterbender SeanDaly: yeah... we need more LatAm pr
16:18 JT4sugar I suggest we look at this as a baseline-Sean there are visibility scores, online score, media score could you help us understand what a good number would be for these
16:18 walterbender SeanDaly: I have some friends in the media down there that maybe able to help
16:18 SeanDaly page 7, media score was quite a bit higher than average, which leads me to believe that a "product" PR (e.g. SoaS or Virtual Sugar or v1) would get pickup if great visual attached
16:20 JT4sugar: this is PRNewswire methodology and we don't have anything to compare it to (it's a new plus from eReleases); best to compare when we do next one - remember, 100 odd reads large for us, but not a large number for stats
16:20 walterbender SeanDaly: if we do something around Sugar and touch, the India picture would be great
16:21 SeanDaly walterbender i'm sorry, had you sent me that one? it's not in my mind
16:21 walterbender SeanDaly: in your inbox
16:22 should we kick around ideas for our next few PR events?
16:23 JT4sugar walterbender, Sugar 1.0 release is when? When I'm clicking on 1.0 in wiki I get empty page
16:23 satellit can we get sugar onto this page? http://elinux.org/RaspberryPiBoard  there are a very large number of RPi's that have been sold....
16:23 SeanDaly wow great photo no i hadn't seen it
16:23 walterbender JT4sugar: we haven't put the schedule together yet... I am guessing Julyish?
16:23 maybe a bit sooner
16:24 SeanDaly i think that's it for PR debrief, just wanted to thank Aguz for spending a few days giving interviews - we were picked up by AFP LatAm (which is HQed in Montevideo) and this was really welcomed by Plan Ceibal supporters
16:24 walterbender satellit: it is a wiki... maybe just add it, or add it to the discussion page?
16:25 satellit will try
16:25 JT4sugar That being the case I would think we might want to try and do a release about something we are doing between now and 1.0
16:25 SeanDaly for next PR events: I have ideas...
16:26 about RPi: last June, 500,000 sold ; by end of December, 1,000,000 sold
16:26 there's an explosion of interest, and
16:26 the official distributors are selling only one prepared image, a Debian
16:26 walterbender is a bit puzzled by it all...
16:27 SeanDaly I think the appeal is to tinkerers... even though rationally, cost is way over an XO, and of course not nearly as portable
16:28 i believe though that this is an opportunity for us, because 0% of those million tinkerers have a preinstalled (Windows) OS on it
16:28 walterbender SeanDaly: +1
16:28 SeanDaly and switching the OS is as simple as switching an SD card
16:28 garycmartin SeanDaly: FWIW: We had a lot of educator types here in Edinburgh (well wi was an edu conference) for Eben Uptons talk about the RPi
16:28 JT4sugar Google giving away 15,000 RPi in UK can we get them Sugar on SD Card-Could Bernie-Other talk to Google into giving away 1,000-5,000 or more Sugar SD cards with RPi??
16:29 SeanDaly garycmartin: interesting
16:29 walterbender has some close contacts in the RPi community as well, which we can leverage if we go down that path
16:30 SeanDaly walterbender: I've had no contact with GCI coordinator, but do you think she would be willing to put us in touch with Google UK person on the RPi thing?
16:30 satellit caryln did  a presentation at  SCaLE11X event in LA Jan 22-24.
16:30 walterbender SeanDaly: maybe... or perhaps the GSoC coordinator
16:30 garycmartin SeanDaly: I think the RPi are just cheap enough for folks to risk a purchase, if they use them, fry them, or not. A sweet spot.
16:30 walterbender whom I know better
16:30 satellit Caryl*
16:31 SeanDaly RPi foundation has announced (buried on FAQ page) that there will be a new Education release, I understand may be a kit with specially designed case
16:31 garycmartin: totally agree
16:32 i feel better able to test because while i was "down the hold" i improved Fedora installation skills; just got F17 + Sugar .96 running smoothly on Dell education netbook
16:33 walterbender: can we open hailing frequencies with RPi? so that they at least know we are interested in working together?
16:33 walterbender so... back on topic... PR ideas?
16:34 SeanDaly Peter mentioned that Sugar install on Fedora RPi spin not hard
16:34 well RPi *is* a PR idea :D :D
16:34 walterbender SeanDaly: I'll put together a list of contacts for you
16:34 SeanDaly other PR ideas:
16:34 JT4sugar walterbender, Any connections into SanDisk or other SD card companies who might want to get some great PR benefit for joining a Sugar-RPi initiative
16:34 SeanDaly 1. Sugar v1
16:34 satellit easy  yum groupinstall sugar-desktop
16:34 walterbender JT4sugar: maybe... worth asking.
16:34 SeanDaly 2. Cloud / Cloudberry
16:35 3. SoaS
16:35 4. Virtual Sugar
16:35 walterbender JT4sugar: I had something going at one point with one of the USB cos, but couldn't pick up large-scale interest
16:36 SeanDaly 5. possible nonprofit/NGO partnerships for Activities development
16:36 6. Sugar on Android
16:36 walterbender SeanDaly:  maybe Sugar-Touch as a sep. PR event?
16:36 garycmartin SeanDaly: Sugar touch?
16:36 JT4sugar walterbender, Think the additional partnering with RPi and Google would help the cause and make high profile for those who would join
16:36 SeanDaly Sugar touch as in, now shipping on the XO-4?
16:37 walterbender SeanDaly: well, OLPC didn't really make a big deal of it and now, for example, someone in India has it running on a commercially available tablet
16:37 SeanDaly satellit: when I did that on Fedora, had to hunt for nearly an hour to find how to access Sugar session at login
16:38 walterbender: OLPC chose to push Walmart tablet
16:38 who in india? very interesting i didn't realize
16:38 garycmartin SeanDaly: Yea, well at least once the XO-4 is shipping… I'm going to at least make some videos (for Youtube and others) demoing some of the features. Very disappointed with the mess a CES2013.
16:38 walterbender looks for the email
16:38 satellit SeanDaly: log out log in choose sugar on sessions selector
16:39 walterbender garycmartin: I think we should make noise about Sugar/Touch
16:39 SeanDaly satellit: was absent from sessions selector, I had to find it manually in Add Software
16:39 Touch is great story to tell; shows we are adapting to the new world of netbooks dying, tablets booming
16:40 satellit SeanDaly it only appears after yum install and log out/in
16:40 SeanDaly satellit: i learn every day :D
16:40 satellit: sugar-emulator not possible on that netbook, screen real estate too small
16:41 satellit you can make it full screen (sugar-emulator)
16:41 walterbender SeanDaly: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ruary/041743.html
16:41 SeanDaly by the way I would like to enumerate some non-PR marketing objectives
16:41 1. Set of videos demonstrating Sugar & Activities
16:42 2. Merchandising
16:42 walterbender re #1 we can use to populate the new website
16:42 SeanDaly 3. Team recruitment, including universities
16:42 4. Website upgrade
16:42 satellit SeanDaly: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/T[…]n_Size_Adjustment
16:43 SeanDaly satellit: many thanks, I would never have discovered that!!
16:44 JT4sugar garycmartin, Has the touch work your doing on Sugar-Fedora being adopted/picked up by the Sugar work being done on Ubuntu and Debian?
16:44 SeanDaly walterbender: I saw that mail but i understood he was accessing externally via VNC, not touch directly?
16:45 walterbender SeanDaly: the point is Sugar/Touch on a non-OLPC tablet
16:45 SeanDaly re videos: I have prototyped two effective methods (one under fedora, the other on Mac using virtualization), need to write it up on a wiki page
16:45 garycmartin SeanDaly: The low end display size for Sugar is down as about 800x480, most (but not all) activities and Sugar views should be usable (this was work trying to improve Sugar for the Okidata laptop, being given to some teachers in Uruguay).
16:45 SeanDaly walterbender: for sure way cool... need photo/video to "prove" the point
16:45 satellit problem is that sugar cannot use most video formats
16:46 walterbender satellit: what do you mean?
16:46 SeanDaly ah also 5. Social media PR seeding
16:46 tch___ +1 on 3.
16:46 satellit walterbender: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/T[…]nable_to_run_olpc.dailymotion.com_and_www.dailymot​ion.com_videos_in_soas_v8_Browse
16:46 SeanDaly satellit: according to my tests animated GIF an excellent container for Sugar screencasting since limited number of colors in many Activities
16:47 walterbender tch___: we need noise about what you've been doing in UNA as an example for others
16:47 and also what Flavio has been doing in .UY at the secondary level
16:47 tch___ walterbender: I could write a litle artiucle about the experience and the results :)
16:49 SeanDaly re 2. Merchandising: I have located a professor at a graphics school who will lend us his class from April-May to work on t-shirts, mugs &c
16:49 garycmartin JT4sugar: Re "Sugar-Fedora being adopted/picked up by the Sugar work being done on Ubuntu and Debian", sorry not too sure, we worked closely, upstreaming patches for GTK3, and 3rd parties such as the Maliit folks for the on screen keyboard.
16:50 SeanDaly and, the SFC has started a merchandising list, but I am not sure my mails get through to it (have forwarded info re t-shirt printing methods & suppliers no answer)
16:51 tch___ what about events? like EduJam, thats very important too
16:52 SeanDaly garycmartin: I'm hoping you and/or Christian can assist me as steering committee for merchandising... not day-to-day, but validate the (many) ideas I have and the implementation work by students
16:52 walterbender tch___: We have so many great things like that going... don't know how to make a PR campaign around them
16:52 SeanDaly also, professor willing to assist us with a brochure I would lke to target donors with
16:52 walterbender goes for more coffee
16:53 garycmartin SeanDaly: Yes, just ping/cc me as needed.
16:53 JT4sugar garycmartin, Have you been able to load a sugar touch version on a tablet(Other than XO4) and work with it?
16:54 SeanDaly tch___: for sure events important, walterbender hoping for a large summit this year, possibly in LatAm. However that's "bigger" than marketing/PR
16:54 garycmartin JT4sugar: No. I've only been working on the XO-4 hardware, trying to get things polished for the release.
16:54 JT4sugar Gotcha
16:55 SeanDaly by the way forgot to mention in GCI PR debrief, we now have an official photo rights release form validated by Tony at SFC, as soon as I locate/reset my wiki login I will upload
16:56 re 4. website upgrade: Christian is willing to assist as content is collated; this is not a minor project and needs to be planned but in my view needs to go live prior to Sugar v1
16:57 walterbender SeanDaly: in parallel, Daniel Francis is trying to pull together new docs for Sugar v1
16:57 SeanDaly concerning Sugar v1 we need (but not today) to work on why it's a milestone compared to v0.94, v0.96, v0.98
16:58 satellit http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/D[…]on_Team/Notes/1.0
16:58 SeanDaly walterbender: yes, I mentioned videoa but these are properly part of documentation effort
16:58 JT4sugar walterbender, What did Bernie say about website code done during GCI can it be leveraged?
16:59 walterbender JT4sugar: yes... it is up on the server and we can start to play with it
16:59 SeanDaly also, from strictly marketing/PR point of view Sugar numbering system far from ideal... after v1 comes v1.02? then v1.04? v2 in 5 years, v3 in 10 years?
17:00 JT4sugar: walterbender showed it to me and I had a 30-second heart attack I thought website had been owned by crackers was just temporary filler :D
17:02 re video: but one key video should overview Sugar to replace the one on our homepage which is old old old
17:02 CanoeBerry has quit IRC
17:03 satellit the Help activity in f18 sugar is nice
17:04 JT4sugar SeanDaly, Much like Christians work it was modeled after the work done is meant more as a container that needs to be filled with content. Our biggest issue is and has been a way to come up with the content to fill so we can make change
17:04 SeanDaly concerning 5. social media seeding, for now i will start to do it, ideally could find someone to monitor heartbeat
17:05 walterbender Mariana in .MX does a nice job in general about Sugar, OLPC, learning...
17:05 SeanDaly JT4sugar: yes I understood that, copy not such a big problem (takes time but I can both write & edit), whereas visuals & videos take time
17:05 walterbender but as soon as tch___ finishes his twitter plugin, every kid can tweet about Sugar
17:05 hint hint
17:05 satellit +1
17:05 garycmartin walterbender: +1
17:06 SeanDaly Sugar treat tweets
17:07 i just want to say something else about RPi
17:07 tch___ walterbender: +1
17:07 SeanDaly we don't have any non-OLPC OEMs yet, and in my view RPi would be an excellent place to start, demonstrating Sugar adaptability to non-OLPC hardware
17:08 walterbender SeanDaly: +1
17:08 SeanDaly: I'll pull together my contacts for you today.
17:08 JT4sugar SeanDaly, One avenue may be to launch new website with the process and tools so the community can make the tutorials and videos needed and be able to allow for the translation work needed. If launched just prior to 1.0 would be great way to usher in 1.0 and engage community
17:08 SeanDaly also concerning videos: what is your point of view, should screencasts be off of XOs only, since largest installed base?
17:09 walterbender SeanDaly: XO screencasts are pretty high-res. Maybe an 800x600 VM is better?
17:09 satellit need a format that f18 firefox and Soas browse can see.....
17:09 SeanDaly JT4sugar: not sure community will spontaneously make videos & tutorials... chicken & egg... I think Documentation effort for v1 can be translated into website content
17:10 garycmartin SeanDaly: I think 'it depends' is the right response there. I'll likely use a few different methods/tools depending what I'm trying to capture.
17:10 SeanDaly re screencasts, I'd be tempted to make 'em as small as can be still legible (or at two quality levels, smaller one still legible)
17:10 tch___ from my experience doing my course at UNA, I found that our info is too sparse inside SL and olpc wikis
17:11 satellit another idea I had (still content in ,pdf form on USB stick to open with read)http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/T[…]als/Tutorials.iso
17:11 SeanDaly garycmartin: from marketing POV, cool to show stuff on different platforms. But, from documentation POV, important that (most if not all) vids can be watched on XOs
17:12 satellit: yes sorry didn't have time to look at i have lots of PDF workflow experience with pdftk and other tools, could be interesting
17:12 garycmartin SeanDaly: Just make sure you have the originals handy. Transcode to different formats as needed for target audience.
17:13 walterbender tch___: agreed
17:13 from both the user and developer POV
17:13 JT4sugar From a learning POV it would be better if you could have them in the Sugar environment through screencasts which could have text boxes that are translatable or audio which can be done in a variety of languauges
17:13 tch___ walterbender: yup
17:13 SeanDaly garycmartin: quite... I know the topic, day job past ten years running database with 80,000 vids
17:14 JT4sugar: was discussed at Documentation team meeting; idea is "mute" videos for now, Ikea/Lego style
17:14 tch___ walterbender: wikis are very useful for detailed information, but basic info could also be presented in a simplified way in the main website
17:15 SeanDaly i18n of course possible but audio, translations etc. big job; in my view better to establish first corpus to build on
17:15 satellit the tutorials are screenshots with narration  use google ranslate to translate text in wiki http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Tutorials
17:16 tch___ JT4sugar: +1
17:16 garycmartin I'm just saying it depends very much on content. Screen casts of some specific feature; video time-lapse shot of creating drawings in Paint using Touch; Touch interaction with Sugar UI (screen case vs video of users hand over screen) etc.
17:16 walterbender FWIW, the Lego WeDo app for Sugar has the usual Lego-style tutorials, but also text (with gettext)
17:17 SeanDaly a longtime problem with our web presence, identified in MIT Sloan Marketlab study, was very loose federation of *.sl.o websites; we had done some work on standardizing a toolbar three years back remember garycmartin? need to integrate that work (which was good) into website project
17:18 Lego WeDo is a Sugar Activity? I purchased a kit (loaned to Bastien at OLPC France assn) but only knew about TA plugin which I'm afraid I could'nt get to work :-(
17:18 garycmartin SeanDaly: yea a long time ago…
17:18 walterbender SeanDaly: I'd be curious why the wedo plugin didn't work :(
17:19 SeanDaly garycmartin: yes, naturally a video demonstrating virtualization quite different from screencast demonstarting an Activity
17:20 walterbender the Lego app is interesting in that it packs lots of tutorial info into the app
17:20 the problem is size.
17:20 tch___ has quit IRC
17:22 SeanDaly re videos, i'd like to add that the RPi SoC (system on a chip not summer of code :-) has native H.264 playback, so the little thing could handle decent video on decent screens
17:23 about website revamp, I think it is key to form a focus group with teachers to test usability as content takes shape
17:23 walterbender we have a good audience in the Learning Team
17:23 SeanDaly Gerald had said following the Marketlab study that he was willing to assist with that
17:23 walterbender (they want to test, for example, the Facebook plugin)
17:24 SeanDaly walterbender: ah great
17:24 walterbender SeanDaly: we meet every wednesday at 9am EST
17:24 needs to disappear in a few minutes...
17:24 SeanDaly walterbender: hee hee i suppose i could burn some midnight oil sometime
17:25 garycmartin SeanDaly: Yea H.264 is nice, but you have to pay a license fee to enable it (to get hardware acceleration of it).
17:25 walterbender SeanDaly: 9am is 3pm for you???
17:25 SeanDaly garycmartin: my understanding is that this fee is rolled into RPi
17:25 walterbender: you're right, i'm mixed up
17:25 walterbender We need to stay on the FOSS side of the codec issue
17:26 SeanDaly walterbender: yes, very aware; this is why Dailmotion channel not YouTube channel...
17:26 Dailymotion
17:26 walterbender we need to figure out why satellit was having issues with Dailymotion
17:26 needs to go...
17:26 garycmartin SeanDaly: Ah yes just reading the web site H.264, is now free, it's MPEG-2 and VC-1 you have to pay for.
17:27 SeanDaly I need to go as well....
17:27 MPEG-2 is uninteresting for our needs and VC-1 is irrelevant
17:28 we covered a huge amount of ground today, I propose to work up a summary for wiki
17:28 any other topics or questions?
17:29 H.264 is now native in MS Windows media player (they kept it out for 5 years despite chairing tech committee, hoping for VC-1 market miracle)
17:30 starting a countdown then...
17:30 join in :D
17:30 5...
17:30 garycmartin 4
17:30 JT4sugar 3
17:30 SeanDaly 2
17:31 #endmeeting
17:31 meeting Meeting ended Wed Feb 13 17:31:20 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
17:31 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-13T16:04:45.html
17:31 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]13-02-13T16:04:45

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