Time |
Nick |
Message |
16:11 |
meeting |
Meeting started Thu Feb 7 16:11:05 2013 UTC. The chair is sdanielf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
16:11 |
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Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting |
16:11 |
sdanielf |
First, welcome everybody |
16:12 |
garycmartin |
sdanielf: thanks for organising the meeting! |
16:12 |
sdanielf |
I have worked in a wiki page, feel free to edit it. |
16:12 |
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#link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/D[…]on_Team/Notes/1.0 |
16:13 |
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I think the main efforts for Sugar 1 will be in a complete User Guide, which should be provided in the Help activity |
16:14 |
SeanDaly |
Yes a Help Activity a great idea |
16:14 |
sdanielf |
#topic Content to write, edit and update |
16:14 |
SeanDaly |
help activity update i meant |
16:15 |
walterbender |
we have tried this in the past... we need a strategy for completion this time |
16:15 |
sdanielf |
I added some links to the wiki, but the first step would be collect all the resources (old or new) |
16:15 |
SeanDaly |
i would like to add a position on that wiki page: demo videos |
16:16 |
garycmartin |
SeanDaly: +1 |
16:16 |
sdanielf |
SeanDaly: +1 |
16:17 |
satellit |
look at discussion tab for an idea |
16:17 |
sdanielf |
SeanDaly: Videos can be included in the documentation through HTML5 video |
16:18 |
SeanDaly |
my chief concern with videos are the massive space & bandwidth required, so satellit idea very interesting |
16:19 |
sdanielf |
The current plan would be: once we know all the resources, we need to link related chapters behind each component listed to document |
16:21 |
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SeanDaly: the videos would be included in the help activity, but it's a problem when reading online documentation |
16:21 |
SeanDaly |
a question, in the distant past there was discussion of MacOS 7-8-9 style info balloons (toggle on-off)... was that buried for good, or is it stil an idea? I ask because unfamiliarity with the interface is a challenge for grownups (kids seem to do all right) |
16:22 |
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sdanielf: a possible solution would be slideshow with audio for low-bandwidth |
16:22 |
sdanielf |
SeanDaly: Activities which need short documentation have a Help Button |
16:24 |
garycmartin |
SeanDaly: In the Sugar 0.97 cycle we looked at adding improved notifications that allowed for position and animation of notifications, this would allow 'bubble' like pop-ups. It was primarily for discover for touch gestures and better indicate the frame. It didn't make it into the release plans unfortunately due to time. |
16:24 |
SeanDaly |
sdanielf: I know - help balloons as worked on the old Macs was more for navigating UI outside of applications |
16:24 |
sdanielf |
SeanDaly: Maybe use only animations when needed? I'm not sure about how many audio needs the documentation. |
16:25 |
garycmartin |
maybe this is a feature that could be looked at again for Sugar 1 |
16:25 |
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16:25 |
SeanDaly |
sdanielf: as substitute for videos I meant |
16:26 |
garycmartin |
SeanDaly: audo has issues with translation. |
16:26 |
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16:27 |
walterbender |
the mechanics of help are interesting... but the challenge is preparing the content |
16:27 |
sdanielf |
garycmartin: good point. I like your touch writing animations, I'm thinking in somethink simmilar |
16:27 |
garycmartin |
We could certainly at least add animated gif type help to the docs. These can be pretty light weight if designed carefully. |
16:28 |
tch___ |
garycmartin: what about sintetic audio |
16:28 |
SeanDaly |
walterbender: +1 agree |
16:28 |
satellit |
follow up to idea: Annotated screenshots (tutorials) on wiki on the USB/SD accessed from browse? (different USB/SD for each language) Can make a tutorial for each activity if needed |
16:29 |
SeanDaly |
garycmartin: +1, with small color palette anim'd gifs can be small |
16:29 |
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the question of i18n does come up |
16:29 |
garycmartin |
tch___: We have reasonable UI in Sugar 0.98 for speaking any selected text, perhaps we just need to document that feature ;) |
16:29 |
sdanielf |
We need a capturing team, and then a writting part where verybody can help |
16:30 |
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everybody* |
16:30 |
SeanDaly |
capturing? |
16:30 |
walterbender |
and we need decide a structure for the writing |
16:30 |
tch___ |
garycmartin: yup, but i meant for the help facilities in general (inside sugar) |
16:30 |
sdanielf |
SeanDaly: recording/animating/screenshoting the desktop |
16:31 |
SeanDaly |
I have prototyped a workflow, running Sugar in a VM on Mac, capturing with Quicktime, then transcoding with ffmpeg |
16:32 |
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possible to mux different audio for each lang into lang-specific videos |
16:33 |
sdanielf |
Is the Maze help which has an animation? |
16:33 |
walterbender |
can I propose (independent of the tech details) that we need several different levels to our help |
16:34 |
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1. how to use Sugar |
16:34 |
satellit |
screenshots from f17 VirtualBox running sugar are easy text can be translated with google translate (my method) |
16:34 |
walterbender |
2 .how to use Sugar activities |
16:34 |
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3. how to use Sugar for learning |
16:35 |
garycmartin |
sdanielf: No not Maze, it's Implode Activity that had the video help |
16:35 |
tch___ |
walterbender: +1 |
16:35 |
garycmartin |
(it took quite some dev hours getting it to work in GTK3 unfortunately, quite a maintenance effort) |
16:36 |
SeanDaly |
walterbender: +1 agree big project needs to be organized into parts |
16:36 |
sdanielf |
garycmartin: thanks for helping me to remember. I like that help and looks like the best way to distribute help. |
16:36 |
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walterbender: +1 |
16:37 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: Did the SF efforts from last year ever finally land into the docs? That seemed like quite an effort of material I've not seen. |
16:37 |
sdanielf |
garycmartin: They didn't land, I added them to the wiki links because most part whith a short update is able to land |
16:38 |
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with^ |
16:38 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: no |
16:39 |
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garycmartin: I put my contributions into the Activity pages in the wiki |
16:39 |
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garycmartin: I made a consistent structure across all the activities I maintain |
16:40 |
garycmartin |
So, last time, it was the final delivery we failed on, not the actual documenting process. |
16:40 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: here is the typical format: |
16:40 |
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About Portfolio |
16:40 |
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Where to get Portfolio |
16:40 |
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Using Portfolio |
16:40 |
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The Toolbars |
16:40 |
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Saving to PDF |
16:40 |
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Learning with Portfolio |
16:40 |
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Samples of student work |
16:40 |
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Extending Portfolio |
16:40 |
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Modifying Portfolio |
16:40 |
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A word to developers |
16:40 |
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Where to report problems |
16:41 |
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we have most of the core activities in this format in the wiki |
16:42 |
sdanielf |
We can export the wiki efforts and send them to pootle. Maybe checking how to do it at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki[…]ki_to_DocBook_XML |
16:45 |
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Just to stop discussions and advance, lets vote some purposes: |
16:46 |
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1) Using animated graphics or mute videos to complement the documentation. |
16:46 |
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+1 |
16:46 |
tch___ |
sdanielf: +1 |
16:47 |
SeanDaly |
mute videos will be like Lego or Ikea instructions :D |
16:47 |
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GrannieB <GrannieB!~webchat jita.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting |
16:47 |
tch___ |
yup, good instructions doesnt need to much explicit instructions, like ikea products |
16:47 |
SeanDaly |
+1 if we're voting tho other stakeholders not here may wish to input |
16:48 |
satellit |
I just printed portfolio wiki page to a .pdf file 109 kb in fedora |
16:50 |
sdanielf |
#agreed Use animated content |
16:50 |
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#action Research the best way to complement videos. (Audio, dynamic text content, etc) |
16:53 |
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Oh, we have been meeting for an hour |
16:54 |
walterbender |
OK... I will think about how to create the static content in a consistent way |
16:56 |
sdanielf |
Other part to look is about documenting activities. The best will be that each activity includes it manual and the Help Activity loads it. So students can update it and receive updated documentation... Specially in activities like TA which can include new blocks in a new release |
16:58 |
walterbender |
sdanielf: we need to get cjl in the loop re the i18n implications |
16:58 |
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sdanielf: this is why I was looking into mallard at one point |
16:59 |
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I wrote some scripts to generate docs |
17:00 |
sdanielf |
walterbender: well. Lets update the wiki after this meeting to add the plans we have and then we ping cjl. |
17:00 |
walterbender |
sdanielf: OK... |
17:00 |
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got no traction for mallard at doc camp... |
17:01 |
tch___ |
brb |
17:01 |
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tch___ has quit IRC |
17:02 |
SeanDaly |
#link http://projectmallard.org/ |
17:03 |
sdanielf |
Ok, we need a tech part to see the format we will write the documentation. |
17:04 |
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I have thinked in Docbook which is used by many projects, but Mallard might be a good option too |
17:04 |
walterbender |
sdanielf: the reason I liked the mallard approach was because I could take direct advantage of the i18n work already done for my activity |
17:05 |
sdanielf |
walterbender: How easy to write is it? |
17:06 |
walterbender |
sdanielf: pretty easy |
17:06 |
sdanielf |
#action Will reserch mallard format |
17:06 |
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research* |
17:07 |
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I think it's all for today, but is there any other idea to share? |
17:08 |
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good... |
17:08 |
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5 |
17:08 |
SeanDaly |
just a sec |
17:09 |
satellit |
look at this page on wiki: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Tutorials |
17:09 |
SeanDaly |
would be helpful to work on video/slideshow/gif spec: resolution in particular |
17:10 |
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ideally, standard size, or 2 sizes (but not 5 sizes) |
17:10 |
walterbender |
4 |
17:10 |
sdanielf |
satellit: thanks |
17:11 |
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3 |
17:11 |
garycmartin |
2 |
17:13 |
sdanielf |
1 |
17:13 |
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thanks for attending |
17:13 |
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#endmeeting |
17:13 |
meeting |
Meeting ended Thu Feb 7 17:13:47 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
17:13 |
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Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-07T16:11:05.html |
17:13 |
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Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]13-02-07T16:11:05 |