| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 15:05 |
meeting |
Meeting started Tue Jul 10 15:05:17 2012 UTC. The chair is gonzalo_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 15:05 |
|
Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting |
| 15:06 |
|
caspar <caspar!~caspar HSI-KBW-37-209-9-63.hsi15.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 15:06 |
gonzalo_ |
hello all, i think we can look at the usual topics, and later see if there anything more |
| 15:06 |
|
#topic new volnteers |
| 15:06 |
|
anybody new in the channel? |
| 15:08 |
|
while we wait if anybody waves, i can tell you, in the last weekend we (manuq, humitos and gonzalo) were in a python event |
| 15:08 |
|
and talked about sugar of course |
| 15:08 |
manuq |
python camp! |
| 15:09 |
gonzalo_ |
and a few guys have now dev enviroment installed, part with VMs and part using sugar-build |
| 15:09 |
|
thanks to dnarvaez work |
| 15:09 |
cjl |
You obviously did not spend enough on buying other people beer or we would have new people here :-) |
| 15:09 |
manuq |
the pycamp in Argentina is great, in case anyone can come next time :) |
| 15:09 |
gonzalo_ |
cjl, or may be too much beer do them forgot the meeting :) |
| 15:09 |
manuq |
cjl: we will track them to make it happen :) |
| 15:10 |
cjl |
:-) |
| 15:10 |
gonzalo_ |
they were exploring, I hope we will have news in the future |
| 15:11 |
manuq |
gonzalo_: and I worked face-to-face in the shell port, his help was great |
| 15:11 |
gonzalo_ |
ok, probably is safe pass to the next topic |
| 15:11 |
manuq |
yup |
| 15:11 |
gonzalo_ |
#topic shell port |
| 15:11 |
|
manuq, do you want talk about that? |
| 15:12 |
manuq |
sure |
| 15:12 |
|
we have branchs with GTK+ 3 already |
| 15:13 |
|
is all in http://git.sugarlabs.org/~dnar[…]manuqs-shell-port |
| 15:13 |
|
that's a sugar-build dnarvaez did |
| 15:14 |
|
sugar starts, the zoom levels and the frame are working |
| 15:14 |
danielf |
manuq: How does the current shell port work? |
| 15:14 |
|
great |
| 15:15 |
manuq |
the icons are not displayed yet because we need a fix in gtk about the forall method |
| 15:15 |
|
garnacho has a patch for it, we should patch gtk to continue development |
| 15:16 |
|
other work needed is: |
| 15:16 |
|
- Gio.File API changes |
| 15:16 |
|
- GenericTreeModel deprecation |
| 15:17 |
|
- do_forall fix |
| 15:17 |
|
- espeak |
| 15:17 |
|
I think that's all for the moment |
| 15:18 |
|
danielf: you can try for yourself cloning the sugar-build link above |
| 15:18 |
|
danielf: and you can contribute if you want, of course :) |
| 15:19 |
danielf |
What's up with speak? |
| 15:19 |
silbe |
manuq: what are the repositories / branches you used? i'd like to take a look without installing sugar-build |
| 15:20 |
manuq |
silbe: for sugar component, I branched from the hippo-removal branch, it's http://git.sugarlabs.org/~manu[…]erikos-shell-port |
| 15:20 |
silbe |
manuq: did you need to change anything that we'd also need for the de-hippo'ed version? |
| 15:20 |
gonzalo_ |
danielf, after shell will talk about activities |
| 15:21 |
manuq |
silbe: and we branched sugar-toolkit-gtk3 too, in http://git.sugarlabs.org/~manu[…]ugar-toolkit-gtk3 |
| 15:21 |
|
silbe: no other changes are needed |
| 15:21 |
danielf |
gonzalo: sorry, I saw a work needed with espeak and I accidentally wrote speak |
| 15:21 |
silbe |
manuq: thanks. can you give a quick summary of what changes you needed in sugar-toolkit-gtk3? bug fixes? new widgets? enhancements to existing widgets? |
| 15:22 |
manuq |
silbe: only porting the EventIcon changes in the hippo-removal branch |
| 15:23 |
silbe |
manuq: ok. So that code will go into sugar for the de-hippo'ed version and move into sugar-toolkit-gtk3 for the GTK3 version? |
| 15:23 |
manuq |
silbe: right |
| 15:24 |
silbe |
manuq: ok, thanks. |
| 15:24 |
cjl |
I haven't noticed any string changes in HEAD versus Sugar 0.96 yet, I'd like to track the first one or two to make sure Pootle and Gitorious are playing nicely together. |
| 15:24 |
manuq |
silbe: you can see the changes in the last 3 commits at the sugar-toolkit-gtk3 branch above |
| 15:25 |
gonzalo_ |
cjl, i think there are not string changes planned after the port is finished |
| 15:25 |
cjl |
ok |
| 15:26 |
silbe |
manuq: great, will take a look later. |
| 15:26 |
manuq |
silbe: thanks |
| 15:27 |
gonzalo_ |
right now, iam trying to compile gtk to add garnacho patch, but add more dependencies, probably is only a temporary solution to allow us to continue working until the fix is packaged |
| 15:28 |
manuq |
yes, this should be fixed upstream |
| 15:28 |
gonzalo_ |
anything more about shell port? |
| 15:29 |
|
silbe, the EventIcon was already reviewed by benzea, is in git now? |
| 15:30 |
dnarvaez |
gonzalo_: we will still need to keep building that stuff until next stable round of distros though :/ |
| 15:30 |
gonzalo_ |
dnarvaez, hmm, would be a shame :( |
| 15:31 |
silbe |
gonzalo_: I don't know about Fedora, but with Debian it's pretty easy to roll your own package with a custom patch. OLPC could host a repository with those fixes, until they made their way through upstream. That way it needs to be done only once, rather than by each developer individually. |
| 15:32 |
|
gonzalo_: I haven't seen a patch posted to add it to sugar (which IIRC was the consensus). |
| 15:32 |
dnarvaez |
it's several interdependent packages, maybe we could apply the patch to 3.4 but my understanding is that we will need 3.5 anyway for sugar touch work later |
| 15:34 |
gonzalo_ |
silbe, no? I was sure it was posted |
| 15:35 |
|
dnarvaez, the patch is a oneliner in a metadata comments, I hope we have it solved upstream |
| 15:36 |
silbe |
manuq: what's the sugar repository for the gtk3 change? (you only posted the sugar-toolkit-gtk3 link before and removing -toolkit-gtk3 does not result in a valid path) |
| 15:36 |
|
gonzalo_: I've only seen a patch against sugar-toolkit, not against sugar |
| 15:36 |
manuq |
silbe: it's above, http://git.sugarlabs.org/~manu[…]erikos-shell-port |
| 15:37 |
silbe |
manuq: ah, right, thanks. |
| 15:38 |
gonzalo_ |
manuq, the de-hippo branch use the SugarEventIcon in sugar or in sugar-toolkit? |
| 15:38 |
dnarvaez |
gonzalo_: yeah it will be solved upstream, but probably not backported to the stable branch (maybe if we ask but then it still needs to go into the distros) |
| 15:39 |
manuq |
silbe, gonzalo_, yes for the sugar de-hippo'ed patches we should wait erikos is back in action |
| 15:40 |
|
because is better to get him involved in the review process, as he was doing most of the job |
| 15:40 |
gonzalo_ |
manuq, ok, anyway would be good if sillbe look at the branches |
| 15:40 |
silbe |
manuq: +1. I haven't seen cleaned-up patches yet anyway. |
| 15:41 |
|
unless somebody created a new branch and didn't post the patches yet? |
| 15:41 |
dnarvaez |
[ot] while maintainers are here, could I get reviews on my out-source-directory patches? :) |
| 15:41 |
silbe |
dnarvaez: caspar is working on it |
| 15:42 |
dnarvaez |
cool |
| 15:43 |
gonzalo_ |
ok, can we pass to the next topic? |
| 15:43 |
manuq |
silbe, gonzalo_, yes, we didn't arrange them yet |
| 15:43 |
silbe |
dnarvaez: IIRC, we're a) missing some explanation of the overall picture (what do we want to solve, how do we solve it in sugar, why do we solve it this way, what other changes are needed?) and b) previous review comments were applied only partially |
| 15:43 |
manuq |
gonzalo_: yup |
| 15:44 |
gonzalo_ |
#topic activities porting |
| 15:44 |
walterbender |
is finally coming up for air... ready to help |
| 15:44 |
gonzalo_ |
nice :) |
| 15:45 |
|
danielf, do you have questions? |
| 15:45 |
dnarvaez |
silbe: will follow up on the ml to not take over the meeting |
| 15:45 |
silbe |
dnarvaez: re. "why do we solve it this way?", addressing why we don't just go the ./setup.py (distutils) route right away would be good, too. |
| 15:45 |
|
dnarvaez: thanks. |
| 15:46 |
danielf |
manuq, What problems do you have with espeak in the shell port? I'm porting Speak and I'm interested in know that |
| 15:46 |
manuq |
danielf: I think is an issue only in the sugar-build |
| 15:47 |
gonzalo_ |
danielf, has you ported the gstreamer code? |
| 15:47 |
manuq |
danielf: global text-to-speech works for me in jhbuild |
| 15:47 |
gonzalo_ |
manuq, in gtk2 :) |
| 15:48 |
manuq |
gonzalo_: happens for me in sugar-build for gtk2 too |
| 15:48 |
danielf |
gonzalo_: No, I have removed Hippo and now I'm waiting for revision |
| 15:48 |
dnarvaez |
manuq: ah yeah I've seen that, I can take a look |
| 15:48 |
manuq |
dnarvaez: oh, great |
| 15:48 |
gonzalo_ |
alsroot, has you seen danielf patch? ^^ |
| 15:49 |
manuq |
danielf: great to see a lot of progress in the ports from you! |
| 15:49 |
gonzalo_ |
anybody knows if dirakx1 is on vacation or anything similar? pflores? |
| 15:50 |
walterbender |
danielf: have you begun work on the TurtleArt port? |
| 15:50 |
|
danielf: maybe we can discuss it after the meeting? |
| 15:50 |
alsroot |
gonzalo_: gtk3 one? I saw ag* was pinged me for some patch. I'm super busy last couple of weeks. will sort out inbox this later week |
| 15:50 |
danielf |
walterbender: I'm sorry, let's talk about it then. |
| 15:51 |
gonzalo_ |
alsroot, de-hippo |
| 15:51 |
dirakx1 |
not on vacation..i have eview the patch, but is giving an error...diagnozing. |
| 15:51 |
|
reviewed* |
| 15:51 |
gonzalo_ |
ohh, hi dirakx1 ! |
| 15:51 |
walterbender |
danielf: no problem... I've been busy making many changes that would have needed porting anyway |
| 15:51 |
pflores |
gonzalo_ ok, dirakx1 already answered :) |
| 15:52 |
gonzalo_ |
dirakx1, alsroot, do you want say anything about port of activities? |
| 15:52 |
alsroot |
gonzalo_: port? where |
| 15:52 |
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..to where |
| 15:52 |
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tch_ has quit IRC |
| 15:52 |
gonzalo_ |
alsroot, to gtk3 :) |
| 15:53 |
alsroot |
gonzalo_: in general, my thinking is until gtk2 is still in game, it is not a super problem |
| 15:54 |
dirakx1 |
gonzalo_: about it, what we have done is depicted on wiki.laptop.org on porting status. |
| 15:55 |
cjl |
alsroot true for Sugar 0.96, but not Sugar 0.97>0.98 |
| 15:55 |
dirakx1 |
gonzalo_: but I can say that flavio is workin on porting maze, and Tamtam. besides all the previous work. |
| 15:55 |
alsroot |
cjl: but what it happen there, you mean distros will stop ships gtk2? |
| 15:56 |
gonzalo_ |
dirakx1, and what is as "Port finish" is already reviewed and ready to use? |
| 15:56 |
dirakx1 |
gonzalo_: +1 |
| 15:56 |
|
gonzalo_: we need to do releases. |
| 15:56 |
gonzalo_ |
dirakx1, ok |
| 15:57 |
dirakx1 |
gonzalo_: and also we are doing QA before it. |
| 15:57 |
cjl |
alsroot, eventually, that may happen and we want gtk3 versions ready |
| 15:57 |
garycmartin |
dirakx1: I have some design notes here on the TamTam suite, I'll add them to http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/D[…]ivity_Touch_Input later today. |
| 15:57 |
dirakx1 |
to be sure we don't have regressions. |
| 15:57 |
gonzalo_ |
garycmartin, thanks! |
| 15:57 |
alsroot |
cjl: well, if we (sugar) the only system that use gtk2, then you are right. but I suspect it is not :) |
| 15:58 |
dirakx1 |
garycmartin: great thanks |
| 15:58 |
cjl |
Will Sugar 0.98 support gtk2? |
| 15:58 |
dirakx1 |
will review them. |
| 15:58 |
silbe |
alsroot: AIUI the main reason to switch to GTK3 early is the improved touch screen support. Maybe gonzalo_ or garycmartin can explain what difference it makes? |
| 15:58 |
walterbender |
be nice to have a quick meeting on TamTam at some point... there are a number of little things we should change given the opportunity |
| 15:58 |
alsroot |
cjl: if there is intention to break many activiities, then, yes 0.98 should not support gtk2 :) |
| 15:59 |
gonzalo_ |
alsroot, the main reason to port is the touch support |
| 15:59 |
silbe |
cjl: Sugar 0.98 will continue to ship sugar-toolkit (the GTK2 version). Other than that, it's a question of what the distros support, not Sugar. |
| 15:59 |
gonzalo_ |
alsroot, 0.98 will have gtk2 support of course |
| 15:59 |
cjl |
walterbender: pflores asked gonzalo_ about a TamTam meeting i n#sugar a little while ago |
| 15:59 |
gonzalo_ |
cjl, yes |
| 16:00 |
pflores |
cjl yes |
| 16:00 |
gonzalo_ |
from my part I would like help with TamTam port. Right now, I am fighting with Paint port, and is taking more time than I expected |
| 16:01 |
manuq |
alsroot: the GTK3 port benefits are largely explained in the wiki, is not just for touch support |
| 16:01 |
|
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/GTK3 |
| 16:02 |
alsroot |
manuq: no doubts it is useful, I'm only talking that there is no need in rush for all people |
| 16:02 |
gonzalo_ |
alsroot, just courious, what activities do you maintain right now? |
| 16:03 |
alsroot |
gonzalo_: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/U[…]#Background_tasks |
| 16:03 |
manuq |
alsroot: I think the hurry because sugar will be overloaded for a the period to support both GTK3 and GTK2 |
| 16:03 |
garycmartin |
alsroot: We will start to see feature differences on GTK2 vs GTK3 activities in the next cycle, so ideally we should have no core Activities left behind in GTK2. |
| 16:03 |
manuq |
the idea is to make that period as short as possible |
| 16:04 |
gonzalo_ |
alsroot, thanks |
| 16:04 |
alsroot |
manuq: I guess it is pretty trivial, it is up to particular devs, if they feel they are overloaded, they will do something |
| 16:05 |
manuq |
alsroot: sorry, I meant to say, that the sugar environment will have an overload |
| 16:05 |
silbe |
garycmartin: porting everything to GTK3 means leaving behind a large portion of the installed base. I don't see how porting to GTK3 early is a benefit there (but I do see the other reasons to do it, of course). |
| 16:05 |
gonzalo_ |
alsroot, will you accept patches to port to gtk3 your activities? |
| 16:05 |
alsroot |
garycmartin: for myself, I will prefer keep the common code base for activities I'm mainating. ie, there people in the field who use 0.88 (when they will siwtch to gtk3 is a question) |
| 16:06 |
|
gonzalo_: right now, I'm prefering welcome people to support gtk3 branch for activities they provide gtk3 patches for |
| 16:07 |
gonzalo_ |
alsroot, and how will you manage releases? |
| 16:07 |
garycmartin |
alsroot: silbe: Agreed, it's a tricky situation to be in. I'm planning to only do new feature work for GTK3 versions, critical bugfixes only for the GTK2 activities. |
| 16:07 |
gonzalo_ |
garycmartin, yes, we have agreed that |
| 16:08 |
alsroot |
gonzalo_: common code base (gtk2 or gtk2+3) for stable releases and gtk3 only releases (w/ help from people who support gtk3 branch) |
| 16:09 |
gonzalo_ |
alsroot, we have explored the gtk2+3 route, and is not easy/clean |
| 16:10 |
alsroot |
gonzalo_: I didn't investigate that way, just if it will be not hard.. |
| 16:10 |
|
kaametza_ <kaametza_!~icarito190.113.196.13> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 16:11 |
alsroot |
if it will be hard. then, well, it might be decided on case basis. who can spend what time to support/backport etc. |
| 16:11 |
walterbender |
is not convinced we gave CScott's code a close enough look |
| 16:12 |
danielf |
alsroot, gtk3 has new features, using gtk2 we can't take advantage of them easily |
| 16:12 |
|
I prefer to separate the releases always when it be possible |
| 16:13 |
dnarvaez |
agreed, we need to move away from gtk2, it's matter of figuring out how and when |
| 16:13 |
alsroot |
danielf: for sure, but the question is what we are talking about. about shell, fructose, or arbitrary (maybe not well maintained) activity. for sure, shell might siwtch entirely to gtk3 even from 0.98, but sugar-toolkit should support gtk2 activities as well |
| 16:13 |
gonzalo_ |
alsroot, no question about that |
| 16:14 |
dnarvaez |
shipping sugar-toolkit-gtk2 can be left as a distro decision imo |
| 16:14 |
danielf |
alsroot, I'm talking about your activities |
| 16:14 |
gonzalo_ |
alsroot, we don't want break all the activities until are ported to gtk3 |
| 16:14 |
alsroot |
dnarvaez: the distro case is the most trivial. people can just switch between distro releases to use gtk2 or gtk3 system. the real problem is deployments |
| 16:15 |
|
danielf: for activities I'm maintaining, they are being in use in the filed/deplount as well |
| 16:15 |
gonzalo_ |
alsroot, what we are trying is have the main activities ported in the next cycle, to have a better experience to the 0.98 users |
| 16:15 |
dnarvaez |
alsroot: same there, I think it's up to the deployment if they want/need support gtk2 |
| 16:15 |
|
not much for upstream to do |
| 16:16 |
pflores |
cjl gonzalo_ dirakx1 Regarding TamTam, I'm not sure if we should discuss it right now, but there are many uncertainties about porting TamTam (maybe garycmartin already cleared up some of them with his new guidelines I didn't see yet). gonzalo_ do you think it would make sesnse making an "activities porting exchange"? |
| 16:16 |
dirakx1 |
anyway, we have also to provide a backwards support for gtk based activities (at least for some time probably a year). |
| 16:16 |
alsroot |
dnarvaez: sorry, it is not deployment maintain activiites deployment people use. it is me. so, I'm in response for what I'm doing, ie, I prefer to provide most recent activity code for all peple (btw, I guess, most of users are exactly in deloyments, not distro users) |
| 16:16 |
gonzalo_ |
dirakx1, yes |
| 16:17 |
|
pflores, depending on what "activities porting exchange" means :) |
| 16:17 |
walterbender |
"activities porting exchange"??? |
| 16:17 |
dirakx1 |
gonzalo_: agree. I think that this has been discussed before. |
| 16:17 |
gonzalo_ |
dirakx1, yes |
| 16:17 |
|
a lot of times |
| 16:17 |
dirakx1 |
np. |
| 16:17 |
garycmartin |
pflores: I'm almost done with my pass for Touch related issues. Will be adding them to wiki later today. |
| 16:18 |
dirakx1 |
pflores: I'0m not sure what you mean either. |
| 16:18 |
gonzalo_ |
pflores, can you explain? |
| 16:19 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: FWIW, I removed the canvas-scrolling feature from TA because it was too slow on XO h'ware. |
| 16:19 |
pflores |
gonzalo_ I mean you (and your team) take TamTam porting, AC team takes other activities porting |
| 16:20 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: Understood. BTW really like the new clamp style for some of the blocks :) |
| 16:20 |
pflores |
gonzalo_ that's the idea martin raised |
| 16:20 |
|
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| 16:20 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: thx... it actually makes the underlying code simpler too. |
| 16:20 |
dirakx1 |
pflores: I don't see why we cannot work as team. |
| 16:20 |
|
i.e..AC + OLPC. |
| 16:21 |
|
for instance we can make patches for other activities that OLPC is maintaining like browse. |
| 16:21 |
walterbender |
pflores: we should be more inclusive than just AC and OLPC :) |
| 16:21 |
gonzalo_ |
pflores, i prefer work with the maintainers |
| 16:21 |
walterbender |
gonzalo_: +1 |
| 16:22 |
gonzalo_ |
pflores, that is the reason I wanted to know what is the position of alsroot by example |
| 16:22 |
pflores |
walterbender of course |
| 16:22 |
gonzalo_ |
pflores, I don't think we finish maintaining a branch for the port |
| 16:22 |
|
is a good idea |
| 16:23 |
|
Ariel_Calzada <Ariel_Calzada!~aricalso201.184.165.121> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 16:23 |
gonzalo_ |
pflores, right now we are interchanging patches, but the maintainers take the reponsability as usual |
| 16:23 |
pflores |
gonzalo_ +1. I'm just referring to the tasks division we made in eduJAM |
| 16:24 |
gonzalo_ |
pflores, about TamTam, I think is a big task, probably one of the more difficult activities to port |
| 16:25 |
|
pflores, i would like to help, but if the maintainer don't want to take the patches, we have a problem |
| 16:25 |
cjl |
and also one of the very important activities |
| 16:25 |
pflores |
gonzalo_ +1, even more if we want to add a piano keyboard as martin wants! |
| 16:25 |
gonzalo_ |
pflores, yes |
| 16:25 |
dirakx1 |
the take on it has to be similar as danielf did with speak..first re-aranging the code..slashing all that is not needed, etc..and then the port. |
| 16:25 |
gonzalo_ |
dirakx1, i agree |
| 16:26 |
|
dirakx1, would be great have danielf patch reviewed and included |
| 16:26 |
dirakx1 |
gonzalo_: yeah I'm no it. |
| 16:26 |
|
on* |
| 16:26 |
alsroot |
gonzalo_: on case/activity basis. (1) right now, my dev focus is in SN/SD, so I can't support gtk2 and gtk3 code base at the same time. (2) if there people who are willing to help w/ gtk3, there is a qustion what to do; (3) for my self, I'm prefere being stuck to gtk2 by default until it will be clear that deploymnets are switching to gtk3; (4) in the rest cases, I'm -1 for abusing gtk2 code and |
| 16:26 |
|
stop developing useful features there |
| 16:26 |
danielf |
dirakx1: alright, thanks. |
| 16:26 |
gonzalo_ |
dirakx1, great :) |
| 16:27 |
manuq |
there is also a patch from Agus for the port of ImageViewer |
| 16:27 |
dirakx1 |
manuq: I've tested and reviewed seems o.k..but I think alsroot is the maintainer of imageviewer. |
| 16:28 |
manuq |
dirakx1: yep, thanks |
| 16:28 |
|
dirakx1: did you answer the email? |
| 16:28 |
alsroot |
dirakx1: manuq: will sort out my inbox later this week |
| 16:28 |
dirakx1 |
alsroot:can you give access to flavio/aguz to create a gtk3 branch ?. |
| 16:28 |
|
alsroot: thanks. |
| 16:28 |
|
manuq: nop :). |
| 16:28 |
manuq |
dirakx1: ok |
| 16:29 |
|
alsroot: ok, thanks |
| 16:29 |
gonzalo_ |
dirakx1, i don't think creasting branches without maintainer review is a good idea in the long run |
| 16:29 |
|
dirakx1, and is not because flavio or aguz |
| 16:29 |
dirakx1 |
gonzalo_: probably is better that the maintainer reviews it, sure. |
| 16:30 |
gonzalo_ |
alsroot, i understand your position, we need think about how resolve it, because we need gtk3 activities in the near future |
| 16:31 |
cjl |
Would TamTam in particular benefit from ne wfeatures in GTK3? |
| 16:31 |
gonzalo_ |
cjl, more than other activities |
| 16:31 |
cjl |
I thought so |
| 16:31 |
|
Touch stuff? |
| 16:31 |
gonzalo_ |
cjl, yes |
| 16:32 |
cjl |
Obviuosly important in a "musical instrument" |
| 16:32 |
gonzalo_ |
cjl, +1 |
| 16:33 |
cjl |
I don't think alsroot should be distracted from the important work he is doing on SD/SN. |
| 16:33 |
|
But I do think TamTam should have a GTK3 version being developed. |
| 16:33 |
gonzalo_ |
cjl, maybe somebody can be co-maintainer of the gtk3 activities? |
| 16:34 |
garycmartin |
needs to take a look at simplepiano from gonzalo_ |
| 16:34 |
alsroot |
heh, porting TamTam to gtk3. well, I maybe right new OS kernel instead? |
| 16:34 |
gonzalo_ |
garycmartin, multitouch is almost working :) |
| 16:35 |
|
alsroot, I don't understand |
| 16:35 |
dirakx1 |
gonzalo_: nice is there a code that i can take a look at? |
| 16:35 |
quidam |
hi everybody |
| 16:36 |
danielf |
quidam: hi |
| 16:36 |
quidam |
question: is a on screen keyboard being worked on? |
| 16:36 |
alsroot |
gonzalo_: TamTam is a beast, porting it to gtk3 will either doing fragile fast work or, well, spend much time |
| 16:36 |
cjl |
alsroot has a lot on his plate, and needs to prioritize his time, it is understandable that activity porting is not high on his list, but that can't stop progress that is needed. |
| 16:36 |
garycmartin |
gonzalo_: is the keyboard code/design self contained enough to use as a component in other (TamTam) activities? I'd rather we polished one good keyboard design for use in musical activities (and perhaps a new activity that is just all about the keyboard). |
| 16:37 |
gonzalo_ |
dirakx1, i will send a mail to sugar-devel when i finish implementing multitouch |
| 16:37 |
cjl |
quidam: Maliit or do you mean 88 key peiano keyboard? |
| 16:37 |
dirakx1 |
gonzalo_: ok looking forward to it. |
| 16:37 |
gonzalo_ |
garycmartin, yes, is a gtk widget |
| 16:37 |
quidam |
no, I mean a computer keyboard for the screen |
| 16:37 |
gonzalo_ |
alsroot, i was wondering that :( |
| 16:38 |
garycmartin |
quidam: Yes we are working on an OSK (Maliit based) |
| 16:38 |
gonzalo_ |
dirakx1, garycmartin the gtk2 version is here http://git.sugarlabs.org/simplepiano |
| 16:38 |
quidam |
garycmartin: ok, because I've been reviewing the accessibility patches in dextrose, and the keyboard in there should better be dropped |
| 16:38 |
gonzalo_ |
dirakx1, garycmartin the sound is horrible, but is only to test it |
| 16:38 |
danielf |
quidam, garycmartin: In Uruguay we already have an accessibility keyboard |
| 16:39 |
quidam |
danielf: yes, that one |
| 16:40 |
dirakx1 |
gonzalo_: thanks |
| 16:40 |
gonzalo_ |
dirakx1, garycmartin in fact i have pushed a patch to port to gtk3, but not the patch to support touch |
| 16:40 |
danielf |
gonzalo_ : great, then I'll test your piano, would be cool having it with the touch screen :D |
| 16:40 |
cjl |
I'd like to acknowledge teh work tha AC is doing to upstream it's Dextrose features. |
| 16:41 |
quidam |
cjl: the more we upstream the better :) |
| 16:41 |
gonzalo_ |
:) |
| 16:41 |
garycmartin |
danielf: Yes I've seen the accessibility keyboard, but it's designed for mouse use and not a touch screen (among other required features). |
| 16:41 |
dirakx1 |
quidam: +1 |
| 16:42 |
gonzalo_ |
ok, guys, the meeting has been longer than expected, any other issue to talk? |
| 16:42 |
cjl |
I think it should probably be a topic for the next dev meeting on a reviewing fast-tracking process to land them (or change them) in an ordwerly fashion |
| 16:42 |
danielf |
garycmartin: yeah, and it isn't well integrated with Sugar |
| 16:42 |
garycmartin |
danielf: Agreed. |
| 16:43 |
quidam |
btw, and now that I mentioned accessibility, I'll be attending guadec in a few days, and the accessibility camp that will be held there. the organizer wants to discuss sugar accessibility there if possible |
| 16:43 |
gonzalo_ |
quidam, manuq will be there too (and erikos) |
| 16:43 |
quidam |
with at least erikos and me... manuq you in? |
| 16:43 |
cjl |
acccessibility features also seem to be key to automated testing processes. |
| 16:44 |
gonzalo_ |
quidam, will be great if you can look at accesibility improvements we can do in sugar |
| 16:44 |
quidam |
cjl: yup, and UI usability analysis. Australia is very interested on all three |
| 16:44 |
gonzalo_ |
quidam, great |
| 16:45 |
quidam |
gonzalo_: both the orca main developer and the GNOME a11y team manager are also interested in that |
| 16:45 |
cjl |
has concerns about accessibility loss with an OSK (no haptic elements). |
| 16:45 |
gonzalo_ |
quidam, good |
| 16:46 |
|
ok, I need run, anything more you need talk? |
| 16:46 |
cjl |
blind kids can't touch type with an OSK |
| 16:46 |
|
danielf_ <danielf_!~danielf@r186-49-66-254.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 16:46 |
silbe |
cjl: that's a concern just with the current state of hardware, not with the software. Not every piece of hardware is well suited for every one |
| 16:46 |
cjl |
silbe true |
| 16:46 |
gonzalo_ |
cjl, accesibility needs different solutions for every case |
| 16:47 |
garycmartin |
cjl: They can if it speaks to you as you hold you finger over the keys |
| 16:47 |
cjl |
Well, as long as theure is a USB port, there is an alternative |
| 16:47 |
|
garycmartin: Interesting |
| 16:47 |
silbe |
cjl: I'm more concerned about the lack of adaptability of the software, e.g. the lack of keyboard support. Ever tried navigating in Sugar without a pointing device? Many people have problems with those. |
| 16:47 |
gonzalo_ |
silbe, +1 |
| 16:48 |
garycmartin |
cjl: And a simple thin overlay with patterns where the virtual keys appear can be very useful. |
| 16:48 |
silbe |
gonzalo_: +1. Adaptability is key to accessibility. |
| 16:48 |
cjl |
Silbe, Sugar uses very few accelerators 9if any) |
| 16:48 |
quidam |
also, not being disabled you make many wrong assumptions on what is actually needed |
| 16:48 |
cjl |
accelerators ar ea L10n mess though |
| 16:48 |
danielf_ |
cjl, +1 |
| 16:48 |
walterbender |
danielf: when do you want to talk about Turtle Art? |
| 16:49 |
cjl |
quidam which is why engaging with a11y experts is crucial. |
| 16:49 |
|
danielf has quit IRC |
| 16:50 |
danielf_ |
walterbender: after the meeting we can talk about TA, but we are already delaying the meeting |
| 16:50 |
silbe |
quidam: yeah, that's quite visible, e.g. in the UY accessibility patch set. :-/ |
| 16:50 |
gonzalo_ |
we can end now :) |
| 16:50 |
|
i need go out |
| 16:50 |
silbe |
+1, let's finish for today |
| 16:50 |
gonzalo_ |
5 |
| 16:50 |
|
4 |
| 16:51 |
danielf_ |
3 |
| 16:51 |
silbe |
2 |
| 16:51 |
garycmartin |
1 |
| 16:52 |
cjl |
mumbles 0.5 |
| 16:52 |
manuq |
0 |
| 16:52 |
|
:) |
| 16:53 |
|
thanks all! see you later |
| 16:53 |
danielf_ |
#endmeeting |
| 16:53 |
cjl |
waiting for gonzalo_ to end the suspense |
| 16:54 |
|
danielf_ is now known as danielf |
| 16:55 |
walterbender |
danielf: I need to disappear for an hour or so, so I will look for you later. |
| 16:55 |
cjl |
still waiting for gonzalo_ to end the suspense with an #endmeeting |
| 16:55 |
pflores |
garycmartin so when will we have a design meeting? |
| 16:55 |
danielf |
walterbender: ok, see you later at #sugar |
| 16:55 |
garycmartin |
pflores: :) |
| 16:56 |
|
pflores: we haven't announced it yet. I'm guessing we'll try for a day next week. |
| 16:56 |
gonzalo_ |
#endmeeting |
| 16:56 |
meeting |
Meeting ended Tue Jul 10 16:56:46 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 16:56 |
|
Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-10T15:05:17.html |
| 16:56 |
|
Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]12-07-10T15:05:17 |