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#sugar-meeting meeting, 2012-06-26 14:53:18

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14:53 meeting Meeting started Tue Jun 26 14:53:18 2012 UTC. The chair is erikos. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:53 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
14:57 gonzalo_ hello erikos
14:58 garycmartin waves
14:58 erikos gonzalo_: hey!
14:58 walterbender waves too
14:58 erikos hey garycmartin
14:58 oh, and even Amazonas-Walter joins us today!
14:58 caspar hi
14:58 erikos hopes it was a nice and successful trip
14:58 hi caspar
14:59 is happy that even with short-notice-reminder there are so many attendees already
15:00 silbe waves
15:00 bernie lurking
15:00 erikos hi silbe
15:00 even the lurker-seats are filling up today, hi bernie
15:00 silbe didn't even see the reminder. It's just the same procedure as every week. :)
15:00 manuq <manuq!~manuq@201-213-135-73.net.prima.net.ar> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:01 manuq waves
15:01 erikos silbe: yeah, I try to send the reminder neverless
15:01 hey manuq
15:01 manuq: humitos will be with us as well, I presume?
15:02 danielf_ <danielf_!~danielf@r186-49-41-91.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:02 benzea <benzea!benjamin@he.sipsolutions.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:02 benzea (ok, will leave again in a minute ...)
15:02 erikos hi danielf_ and benzea
15:03 let's start then!
15:03 #topic Introducing new contributors
15:03 I know we can not get three new contributors every week, but neverless, anyone new to the show?
15:04 Cerlyn <Cerlyn!~cerlyn@173-12-75-9-miami.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:04 silbe erikos: certainly a good idea
15:04 (reminders)
15:04 humitos <humitos!~humitos@201-213-135-73.net.prima.net.ar> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:04 erikos anyone here in the meeting that is new to the development team?
15:04 humitos hello
15:04 erikos hi humitos
15:05 silbe humitos: welcome to the show!
15:05 erikos great! next week again :)
15:05 #topic Update list of action items
15:06 looks for the current list
15:06 we should maybe keep them on the wiki
15:07 manuq good idea
15:07 gonzalo_ erikos, i need somebody to look at soas in a vm as devel env, my hardware does not support kvm :(
15:08 erikos, something has changed in f17
15:08 i have used this same hardware to do virtualization before
15:09 erikos    manuq to test pippy and terminal and make sure it appears in 12.1.0
15:09    erikos to follow up on #3605
15:10 ok, 3605 stays open, it looks like
15:10 manuq: pippy and terminal is all fine, right?
15:10 manuq erikos: so, pippy translation issues are still there :/
15:10 erikos we do not have other action items
15:10 manuq the ticket was closed, after a long discussion
15:11 erikos manuq: ok, what is the status there? what is the plan?
15:11 manuq: ok
15:11 manuq #3698 is the ticket
15:11 dirakx: around?
15:12 humitos just to let you know... I'm working on Get Books - Searching books from a Pen Drive
15:14 manuq cjl: anything you want to say about #3698 that is not in the ticket? about the resolution=fixed?
15:16 seems like translations effort is needed, or manually (or automatically) removing the '_' character from the po files
15:16 erikos gonzalo_: ok, and it is true that there are always a few people that do that
15:16 gonzalo_: anyone here that is using F17 or soas in a vm?
15:16 sorry
15:16 anyone here that is using F17 or soas in a vm?
15:17 danielf_ has quit IRC
15:17 manuq seems like pippy translation issue will not be ready for 12.1.0 :/
15:17 walterbender erikos: I run it in Virtual Box
15:17 erikos manuq: yeah, ok - let's just make sure we fix it later
15:17 walterbender erikos: on an F16 box
15:17 manuq erikos: yes, ok
15:17 garycmartin erikos: Yea I have F17 in Virtual Box here on my Mac.
15:17 erikos manuq: but a decision has been made, so let's move on
15:17 manuq ok
15:17 erikos walterbender: ok
15:18 garycmartin: ok, great - and is working fine?
15:18 cjl reads scroll back
15:18 gonzalo_ walterbender, can you install SoaS in a vm and see if we can propose it as a  environment for new developers?
15:19 walterbender, i don't know if the persistence can be enabled in a vm
15:19 garycmartin I only use it intermittently, but it's where I was testing the various OSK options and the new one from Gnome, seemed OK but I don't live in there much.
15:19 erikos garycmartin: ok
15:20 is happy Gary is not living in a vm ;p
15:20 garycmartin ;)
15:20 humitos erikos: I think that I can test SOAS in a vm with kvm...
15:20 at least it was working on my Debian (and I have it already installed)
15:20 erikos humitos: ok, that is great
15:21 humitos erikos: assign me that task if you want
15:21 erikos humitos: I will re-assign you the action item then
15:21 humitos (give any ticket related and so)
15:21 cjl only has the comment on #3698 that it is superceeded by design ticket #3706, okay to close #3698 by me.
15:21 humitos I mean, explain me what I have to do and test
15:22 walterbender gonzalo_: I used to have persistence enabled, but haven't gotten it to work for my F17 image (haven't tried very hard)
15:22 erikos #ACTION humitos, testing if soas (F17) in a vm is something to recommend to developers as a development environment
15:22 cjl agrees tash Pippy transltion issue will no tbe ready for 12.1.0
15:22 erikos humitos: that is the description ^
15:22 humitos erikos: ok
15:22 erikos humitos: gonzalo_ can fill you in with his reserach
15:23 gonzalo_ thanks humitos!
15:23 erikos great, so all current items handled
15:23 next topic!
15:23 #topic shell port status update
15:23 satellit_ I will try to test this also think a USB written with liveinst or tools scripts will work
15:24 gonzalo_ satellit, great
15:24 erikos satellit_: thanks
15:25 we have a branch up for that: http://git.sugarlabs.org/~erik[…]erikos-shell-port
15:25 satellit look at testing: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki[…]Install#USB_Stick
15:25 erikos and http://git.sugarlabs.org/~erik[…]erikos-shell-port
15:26 with the CanvasIcon patch that has been posted to the list already
15:26 so the hippo removal stuff is quite finished
15:26 Manu, Daniel and myself have been splitting up the tasks there
15:27 manuq Daniel == dnarvaez
15:27 erikos we can pretty up the commits then
15:27 garycmartin ooooh, no more hippo, well done!
15:27 erikos manuq: yes, thanks ;p
15:27 maybe move it all into one, not 100% sure what is better thre
15:27 there
15:27 and then run the script
15:28 we have to fix https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=644926 for the container port
15:28 silbe erikos: wow, that was fast.
15:28 erikos hopefully that is done in a bit as well
15:29 silbe: quite a few work has been gone into that from Walter Daniel and Raul
15:29 cjl Who killed the last bit of hippo?  I have a smallish gift for them
15:29 erikos silbe: for the last hackfest
15:29 walterbender a tip of the hat from rgs and me too!
15:29 silbe A big thanks to everyone involved!
15:30 erikos on the shoulder of giants or something like that ;p
15:30 manuq yes!
15:30 erikos any questions, coments?
15:31 gonzalo_ erikos, do you need testing/reviews?
15:31 erikos gonzalo_: yes, both ;p
15:31 gonzalo_ erikos, i know you will be on vacation, manuq will continue?
15:31 erikos gonzalo_: so you can run the branches already, they do start
15:31 silbe erikos: on what branch is your branch based? If I try to compare it against mainline master, it lists many commits that should be in mainline master already.
15:32 walterbender gonzalo_: I suppose I should finally remove the last traces of hippo from Infoslicer :P
15:32 gonzalo_ walterbender, ;)
15:32 erikos silbe: hmm, it is based on master
15:32 silbe: branched a few days ago
15:33 gonzalo_ silbe, will you review the patches?
15:33 silbe erikos: strange. "git log upstream/master..erikos-shell-port/master" is listing many Pootle commits, "Release 0.96.2" and the likes. (I did "git fetch --all"; upstream=mainline)
15:34 gonzalo_: Caspar and I will do so, yes.
15:34 gonzalo_: Reviews from anyone else are also encouraged as usual.
15:35 erikos silbe: no idea
15:35 Cerlyn has quit IRC
15:35 erikos yeah, we already review each others stuff while going
15:35 so this stuff has probably seen more reviews than many other parts
15:36 dogi has quit IRC
15:36 dogi <dogi!~dogi@pool-108-7-156-231.bstnma.east.verizon.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:36 erikos so, my hope is that we can land those actually in the next days
15:36 silbe erikos: in mainline master, the 0.96.2 commit is 11d3207f5101ec88b707931749818802552e76ba. In your branch, it is f05bcf0a4ebd0741959c046222d2d89dcc30d8d2.
15:37 erikos: but let's figure that out after the meeting.
15:37 danielf_ <danielf_!~danielf@r186-49-41-91.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:38 erikos silbe: does not matter really, as we will have to either regroup the commits anyhow or put them into one big one
15:39 silbe erikos: ok, waiting for your new patch set then. Please don't do a single commit, that's not reviewable.
15:39 erikos silbe: ok, we will have to live then with the fact that sugar won't run after every commit
15:39 silbe: which is fine with me
15:40 silbe erikos: ??
15:40 erikos silbe: all that work is interlinked
15:40 silbe erikos: you're only removing hippo-canvas, right? not doing the GTK3 conversion?
15:41 erikos: so why would Sugar not work anymore after a single functional change?
15:41 erikos silbe: no, but the work needs the toolkit-gtk2 branch
15:41 silbe: and that I don't think we want to land
15:42 silbe: as the toolkit is deprecated
15:42 silbe erikos: each sugar commit needing a different commit in sugar-toolkit would be fine with me. That's a price we pay for having them in separate repositories.
15:42 erikos silbe: there is only one commit in the toolkit
15:42 silbe: but I don't want to push it
15:43 silbe: the hippo removal is an intermediate step in the shell
15:43 walterbender humitos: will you review an infoslicer patch for me?
15:43 gonzalo_: I don't think any of the hippo code was actually used anywhere :P
15:43 humitos walterbender: I have no problem... do you have the patch? is attached on some ticket?
15:44 silbe erikos: However, Sugar not working at all anymore after a commit is quite a major impact. For one thing, you can't track failures down using "git bisect" anymore.
15:44 walterbender humitos: will send in a few minutes
15:44 humitos walterbender: I don't have the same eyes than you, but I can use mines :)
15:44 walterbender: ok
15:45 silbe erikos: I'm fine with adding additional code to sugar-toolkit (GTK2) required by the hippo-canvas removal, if it enables us to have Sugar not break between commits.
15:46 erikos: we cannot change API, but adding a new class as an alternative to another, hippo-canvas using class is fine.
15:46 gonzalo_ erikos, then we will not have a gtk2 sugar working without hippo?
15:47 erikos, looks like a good thing to have....
15:48 erikos silbe: ok, you would want to add the EventIcon
15:48 silbe: and only to master I presume
15:48 Cerlyn <Cerlyn!~cerlyn@173-12-75-12-miami.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:48 erikos silbe: and never release it
15:48 silbe erikos: master would suffice, yep.
15:49 dogi has quit IRC
15:49 gonzalo_ erikos, +1
15:50 silbe gonzalo_: +1, a GTK2 version without hippo-canvas would enable us to implement UI tests. We could then develop them on GTK2 and compare with (i.e. run the test suite against) the GTK3 version.
15:50 walterbender humitos: #3734 when you get a chance...
15:50 gonzalo_ silbe, yes, and test before the big gtk3 change
15:51 silbe gonzalo_: exactly, before and after, to make sure everything (well, at least as much as we test) still works.
15:52 gonzalo_ yeah, i think we should not be too religious about not adding code to gtk2 sugar-toolkit
15:52 erikos so you want to release it as well, right?
15:53 silbe erikos: a development version would suffice, but I wouldn't be opposed to a release either.
15:54 erikos silbe: I want people to port their activities, that is why I don't want to have new releases of a deprecated module
15:54 silbe especially since we're talking purely about additional code (in sugar-toolkit) here.
15:54 erikos silbe: unless bug fixes
15:55 cjl Thanks to erikos, we have a glu96 branch and a master branch of sugar-toolkit.  experimentation about backporting features on master is okay as the glu96 branch is frozen
15:55 silbe erikos: I don't see how releasing a version of sugar-toolkit with a hippo-canvas replacement would hinder the Activity ports. Quite the contrary, if necessary they could do the same intermediate step as sugar.
15:56 danielf_ has quit IRC
15:56 erikos gonzalo_: do activities use the CanvasIcon?
15:56 gonzalo_ erikos, checking
15:58 erikos, just Calculate and is commented (I think silbe requested remove it , right? )
15:58 erikos gonzalo_: ok
15:58 silbe gonzalo_: +1
15:59 erikos so activities do not need the change in the toolkit
15:59 garycmartin gonzalo_: yep, that comment will get removed in next Calculate release
15:59 gonzalo_ erikos, anyway, as silbe said, having the class to replace it should do easier the port
15:59 silbe erikos: even better than. The change has no effect whatsoever on Activities in that case. :)
15:59 erikos but pushing to master is ok with me
15:59 silbe *then
15:59 gonzalo_ good garycmartin :)
16:00 silbe erikos: great!
16:00 cjl does not want to see string changes in glu96 branches
16:00 gonzalo_ cjl, don't worry, no string changes here
16:00 cjl :-)
16:01 silbe cjl: no problem, we'll sprinkle in a few just for you ;)
16:01 erikos silbe: or, we could add it temporary in sugar itself
16:01 cjl AFAICT master sugar-toolkit should not currently be in use by any build system, etc. so it is clear as a testing ground for backports
16:02 silbe erikos: would be fine with me, too. Maybe even better, as nothing else needs it and we wouldn't depend on a specific version of sugar-toolkit. Not perfect from a purity PoV, but reasonable engineering. Good idea.
16:02 cjl: sugar-jhbuild always uses master. But that's a feature, not a bug. :)
16:03 cjl silbe as long as it is not a mis-feature tha twill trip anyone up.
16:04 silbe cjl: sugar-jhbuild is for developers working on master, so it's working as expected.
16:04 cjl silbe I'm good wit hit
16:04 erikos silbe: the only thing is that I need to either nearly copy all of the icon class or access private members like _IconBuffer
16:05 silbe erikos: copying over the entire class makes sense. don't hot-patch it in sugar.
16:05 erikos ok, so let's do this then
16:06 silbe It's an intentional code copy for a transitional period. No problem with that.
16:07 erikos looks like we have a plan there
16:07 silbe erikos: +1
16:08 gonzalo_ landing the hippo-less sugar will be a historic day :)
16:08 erikos silbe: caspar do you guys have review time this week?
16:09 I hope we get it ready tomorrow
16:09 would be great to finish this working week with that landed
16:09 manuq yup :)
16:09 silbe erikos: I'll see what I can do, but it's unlikely as I already have other, long planned (and not changeable from my side) committments this weekend.
16:10 cjl This may sound like a stupid question, but am I correct in assuming tha sugar-toolkit master will be come a testing module for de-hippofication of GTK2 activities prior to their GTK3 porting?
16:10 silbe *commitments
16:10 erikos cjl: no, sugar-toolkit master will stay untouched
16:10 silbe cjl: no, the latest plan is not to change sugar-toolkit at all.
16:10 cjl ok
16:11 silbe cjl: instead we'll copy some of the code to sugar and change it there.
16:11 cjl ok
16:11 erikos silbe: ok, don't want to bypass you but if I get other reviews+testing would you be ok with pushing?
16:12 dogi <dogi!~dogi@pool-108-7-156-231.bstnma.east.verizon.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
16:12 erikos silbe: or, can you have a look at the general layout of the replacement, if you agree with the approach?
16:12 silbe erikos: I'd prefer to take a look myself.
16:13 erikos: as mentioned, I'll do my best to make time for this this week, but I don't even have the patches yet.
16:13 erikos silbe: I meant you can have a look at the repo
16:13 silbe: the approach is what counts most I think
16:13 silbe erikos: TBH, I don't see the need to rush this major change.
16:14 erikos: certainly. But right now all I can see is the single SugarEventIcon patch. If there's anything else, it's hidden in the duplicated commits.
16:15 the duplicated commits go right back to the root commit. Not sure what's going on with your repo.
16:17 I also checked mainline master against my local branches to make sure it's not mainline master that is broken.
16:18 erikos I used the clone functionality, not sure where it went broken
16:18 but you can always do a git diff in the repo itself
16:18 so the code is there ;p
16:19 silbe haha
16:19 erikos anyhow, it is not a rush as many people have been working on that for a while
16:19 silbe erikos: well, I'm confident you'll sort it out and send the patches to sugar-devel. :)
16:20 erikos: but not in public AFAICT
16:20 erikos: I'd prefer all Sugar changes to happen in public.
16:22 gonzalo_ clearly we need more people to maintain sugar
16:22 erikos silbe: ok, if you have 5 minutes now, have a look at the approach and let us know
16:23 silbe: the sooner we have feedback the better
16:23 gonzalo_ is a big piece of code and is not possible be blocked by one maintainer :(
16:23 manuq gonzalo_: hello! I'm manuq, new sugar-artwork maintainer :)
16:23 erikos manuq: :)
16:23 silbe erikos: I still don't see any of the changes except for SugarEventIcon which is a rather small part of it
16:23 gonzalo_ manuq, congrats! (but i am talking about sugar module)
16:24 erikos silbe: in http://git.sugarlabs.org/~erik[…]erikos-shell-port ?
16:24 silbe erikos: once you have something I can actually look it, we can talk again.
16:24 erikos: yes
16:24 cjl gonzalo_: It would be wonderful of folks going to GUADEC kept any eye put for recruiting devs.  We should give them a beer stipend as a recruiting budget :-0
16:24 erikos silbe: did you clone the repo?
16:24 silbe erikos: yep: git remote add erikos-shell-port  git://git.sugarlabs.org/~erikos/​sugar-toolkit/erikos-shell-port
16:25 d'oh
16:25 no wonder it's not working
16:25 how did I mix that up? must have copied from the wrong line in the meeting logs.
16:25 sorry!
16:26 erikos silbe: ok, and you see the changes now?
16:27 silbe erikos: yeah, much better once you use the right repo :)
16:27 erikos silbe: excellent
16:28 silbe: there is as well http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]ell/Hippo_Removal with some more background info
16:28 silbe erikos: like with sugar-toolkit-gtk3, the patches should be grouped functionally (with matching patch descriptions), rather than historically ("initial port", "fix this", "fix that"). But I can at least take a look at the code now.
16:29 erikos gonzalo_: yeah, lucky we have manu now on board, in the few days he is on he helped me already a lot
16:29 silbe: right, the descriptions will change
16:29 silbe: this is a working dir
16:29 silbe: what counts for now, is the code feedback
16:29 silbe erikos: Looking forward to the patches you propose for inclusion.
16:30 erikos silbe: sure
16:30 ok
16:30 goes back to fixing the remaining parts
16:30 3
16:30 any more questions?
16:30 silbe erikos: I'll try to squeeze in the code review whenever I can, but as mentioned I'm rather booked out this weekend.
16:30 pflores I have a quick topic
16:30 Hi guys BTW :)
16:31 gonzalo_ hi pflores !
16:31 erikos pflores: yes, please
16:31 pflores A couple of weeks agos it was raised the idea of making a design meeting
16:31 Did it get scheduled?
16:31 erikos no, I don't think it has been scheduled
16:32 cjl Who usually schedules those?
16:32 gonzalo_ garycmartin and manuq are the design heads.... ^
16:32 pflores Ok, it would be important for us scheduling one
16:32 cjl I agree, there are some interesting things to discuss
16:33 garycmartin pflores: No, not scheduled yet...
16:33 pflores as we have many dextrose features which require design discussions to go upstream for 0.98, as we'd like to
16:33 garycmartin pflores: I want to wait until 12.1 is released.
16:33 pflores garycmartin, manuq, how should we proceed for scheduling it
16:33 >
16:34 ?
16:34 manuq yeah, after the release sounds good
16:34 pflores garycmartin which will be...?
16:34 silbe garycmartin: that would be in about two weeks, right?
16:34 cjl garycmartin: I have to admit that delaying until 12.1.0 release sounds perfectly reasonable
16:34 gonzalo_ july 9?
16:34 garycmartin pflores: Either I or manuq will propose a time to the sugar dev list, and we tweak from there.
16:35 cjl Actionitem?
16:35 manuq yes July 9 is the deadline
16:35 garycmartin silbe: Yea 9th I think.
16:35 pflores garycmartin Ok, so it should be in a couple of weeks from now?
16:36 garycmartin pflores: yea.
16:36 silbe garycmartin: no problem then. Two weeks more or less don't matter as long as we get started some time and keep going.
16:36 pflores garycmartin Ok! That's good for us to get organized
16:36 garycmartin pflores: I just have too much else on the go I don't want to start discussing new designs until 12.1 is out of my head ;)
16:37 pflores garycmartin +1! :)
16:37 cjl #ACTION garycmartin and manuq to schedule design meeting via sugar-devel list to occur post 12.1.0 release (Jul 9)
16:39 pflores to propose agenda items related to upstreaming Dx work
16:39 pflores cjl m_anish will do it :)
16:39 cjl pflores: sure
16:40 pflores to poke m_anish to propose agend items :-)
16:40 pflores XD
16:42 cjl I'd love to hear a little on #3706 at that meeting, if there is time and info to report from garycmartin's explorations.
16:42 manuq # ACTION manuq lunch :P
16:42 cjl implications of OSK
16:42 silbe ok, looks like we're done. Or would anyone else like to discuss something?
16:42 erikos 3
16:42 manuq 2
16:43 garycmartin 1
16:43 erikos #ACTION garycmartin and manuq to schedule design meeting via sugar-devel list to occur post 12.1.0 release (Jul 9)
16:43 #endmeeting
16:43 meeting Meeting ended Tue Jun 26 16:43:22 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
16:43 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-26T14:53:18.html
16:43 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]12-06-26T14:53:18

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