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#sugar-meeting meeting, 2011-11-29 14:56:25

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14:56 meeting Meeting started Tue Nov 29 14:56:25 2011 UTC. The chair is erikos. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:56 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
14:56 erikos wants to be prepared today
14:56 gonzalo hello :)
14:57 erikos hey gonzalo
14:57 manuq hello everyone
14:58 erikos hi manuq
14:58 time to start a first roll-call!
14:58 who else is here for the dev meeting besides manuq and gonzalo?
14:58 rgs_ waves
14:58 erikos hey rgs_!
14:58 rgs_ erikos: hey hey! Nice work you guys are doing!!!
14:59 (re the browse stuff with manuq)
14:59 erikos rgs_: thanks!
14:59 hands the congrats over to manuq
15:00 silbe: around as well?
15:00 manuq erikos: I'm just remaking Daniel's work for now :)
15:00 erikos manuq: yeah - so we have the other patches in the queue...;p
15:00 dsd_ <dsd_!~dsd@gentoo/developer/dsd> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:00 erikos dong! 16:00 roll-call!
15:00 manuq erikos: yes!
15:00 erikos dsd_: is late!
15:00 dsd_ i joined before the dong
15:01 and if its a 16:00 roll call i am 1hr early :P
15:01 erikos hehe
15:01 silbe is there
15:01 rgs_ i bet dsd_ was out in the beach enjoying good weather
15:01 silbe: heeeey! long time no see
15:01 erikos dsd_: I see you are awake already ;p
15:02 walter is still in thanksgiving-land?
15:03 silbe rgs_: yeah, way too much going on for my taste :-/
15:03 erikos ok- let's roll!
15:03 * status of the GTK3 port
15:03 looks around waiting for the reports
15:03 silbe erikos: #topic?
15:04 erikos #topic status of the GTK3 port
15:04 silbe thx
15:04 erikos gonzalo: I have heard there has been progress on the evince-upstream end?
15:04 gonzalo erikos, yes, i will test in our os2 image
15:05 dsd_ librsvg2 with introspectable bindings is included in F17 and 12.1.0 build 2
15:05 gonzalo erikos, but from git is alll working
15:05 erikos dsd_: wonderful!!!
15:06 gonzalo: great - so to see your work in action, we would need t hurry with the theme and toolkit
15:07 gonzalo erikos, in os2, there are sugar3?
15:07 erikos gonzalo: no :) that is why I am saying ;p
15:07 gonzalo erikos, ok, then would be good have anythinglike is in sugar-jhbuild packaged
15:08 erikos gonzalo: right, for that we have to review to get it into master
15:08 gonzalo erikos, ok
15:08 erikos silbe: what is the status there? anything you did after the reorg? (toolkit)
15:09 silbe erikos: nop, I'm mostly waiting for working palettes (and another thing that was broken IIRC).
15:09 erikos in terms of review
15:10 silbe: so the palettes do not stop us from landing the other patches, right?
15:10 silbe several reviews, but none GTK3 specific
15:11 walterbender <walterbender!~chatzilla@2001:4830:2446:ff01:5a94:6bff:fe7a:4694> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:11 erikos ahh here is walterbender as well!
15:11 walterbender sorry I am lte
15:11 late
15:12 erikos walterbender: np, we are just going through the status of the gtk3 port
15:12 silbe erikos: depends on how you want to move forward. We can only compare the two trees once Palettes are working so we can merge them in the "official" branch.
15:13 (comparison would be to ensure that my rework didn't introduce accidental changes)
15:13 erikos silbe: that sounds too complicated to me
15:13 silbe: we are already in a separate repo
15:14 being careful is good, but I think it blocks us more here
15:15 silbe erikos: I don't see how you're blocked (given that there's still your tree where development can and should happen), but I don't mind just accepting my rework (after the few remaining issues are addressed) without comparison.
15:16 dsd_ it would be useful for people like me (with one eye on the project) to have things merged and packaged properly, so that it is easy to continue working on the pending issues such as palettes
15:16 erikos silbe: the thing is that the list of reviews tod-do gets longer
15:16 silbe: and most of the patches are simple changes that needs to be done anyhow
15:16 silbe erikos: how so?
15:17 erikos so I don't think we should block on them
15:17 silbe erikos: review is independent of merging
15:17 erikos but not the coding of new patches
15:18 if in review you then want to reorg things etc it gets more complicated when there are more patches in the queue
15:18 silbe the latter is a good point
15:19 do you have time today to go over the remaining issues?
15:20 erikos silbe: halfish, but sure happy to do another round
15:20 silbe ok
15:20 erikos silbe: let's just meet after the meeting, sounds good?
15:21 (so that is the status on the toolkit)
15:21 * browse
15:21 gonzalo erikos, artwork?
15:21 erikos manuq: is sending his patches for review
15:21 gonzalo: yes yes :)
15:21 manuq yeah, the first ones
15:21 erikos we want to get up to speed here
15:21 because:
15:22 http://live.gnome.org/Hackfests/WebKitGTK2011
15:22 gonzalo erikos, we did one activity woth version gtk2 and gtk3 to help us to test changes in the css
15:22 Ariel_Calzada has quit IRC
15:22 Ariel_Calzada <Ariel_Calzada!~aricalso@190.147.143.226> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:22 erikos there is currently the hackfest going on, and they might be helpful if we have specific questions
15:22 gonzalo http://git.sugarlabs.org/test-[…]3/test-theme-gtk3
15:22 http://git.sugarlabs.org/test-[…]2/test-theme-gtk2
15:23 erikos gonzalo: great work
15:23 manuq yes we can take adventage of the hackfest
15:23 gonzalo erikos, and after tessting send the changes to sugar-artwork (actually to your branch)
15:23 erikos, looks like a lot of the differences can be solved with css
15:24 erikos http://git.sugarlabs.org/sugar-artwork/gtk3
15:24 gonzalo: indeed
15:24 gonzalo erikos, there are a few misterious things not working, but....
15:24 erikos we have been using again a separate branch, so gonzalo/manu/myself can push quickly
15:25 gonzalo: yes, I think we can get there indeed
15:26 anything else on the gtk-3 track?
15:26 gonzalo erikos, i was looking at the engine c code , until benzea confirmed is not used at all :/
15:27 erikos gonzalo: benzea was saying it is not used at all at the moment, or that we won't need an engine because we do it all in css?
15:27 gonzalo erikos, at the moment
15:27 erikos gonzalo: ok
15:28 gonzalo: for example the rounding edges of the gtk-entry I have been doing in the css (was done before in the engine)
15:28 gonzalo erikos, yes
15:28 all the roundiness is possible in css now
15:28 :)
15:28 erikos gonzalo: we should check how we can do the 72/100 settings for the icons best
15:29 gonzalo erikos, yes, probably we will need two files, like the rc files from gtk2
15:29 dsd_ 72/100 could probably be done as before
15:29 two files dynamically built from one source file
15:29 gonzalo dsd_, yes
15:29 silbe I thought GTK3 has everything we need for real scaling, without the 72/100 hack?
15:30 gonzalo silbe, i think all the sizes are in pixels
15:30 not like in the real css
15:31 satellit_ has quit IRC
15:33 manuq I was also working on theming the checkboxes and radio buttons with svg images
15:33 silbe gonzalo: at least this patch suggests otherwise: http://bugzilla-attachments.gn[…]ent.cgi?id=182518
15:34 manuq just like Adwaita theme does
15:35 silbe: that seems to be for the font sizes
15:35 gonzalo silbe, but that is only fonts or....?
15:35 erikos manuq: like:
15:35 .menuitem.check:active {
15:35    background-image: url("assets/checkbox-menuitem-checked.svg");
15:35 }
15:35 manuq erikos: yes
15:36 erikos manuq: nice
15:36 manuq: what is the main advantage of this?
15:36 manuq: more design options?
15:37 gonzalo erikos, easier than the engine?
15:37 manuq erikos: otherwise, we should change C code in the engine, using cairo in C
15:37 silbe manuq, gonzalo: no: +    height: 1.86em;
15:38 erikos gonzalo: manuq: ahh - so we did this in the engine before?
15:38 gonzalo erikos, yes
15:38 silbe, hmm, would be very good
15:38 manuq erikos: yes, but I think the objective is to use as much svg as possible for theming, and Adwaita is 90% already ported to svg
15:39 erikos manuq: ok, interesting
15:40 silbe: hmm, though "Some other sizes that are
15:40 clearly related to the font sizes are changed to ems, but no comprehensive
15:40 attempt is made to get rid of px units."
15:40 from the patch description
15:42 silbe erikos: yes, this single patch was a step towards proper scaling for gnome-shell, but not a complete solution. That doesn't imply GTK3 doesn't have everything Sugar needs for theming.
15:42 gonzalo erikos, silbe: i have not tried putting em,but almost ion one case, putting px in the size give us a error
15:42 silbe (it doesn't imply the opposite either, of course)
15:42 erikos and https://bugzilla.gnome.org/sho[…].cgi?id=636868#c4
15:43 in any case, we should check that of course, if things can be simplified, great
15:43 satellit_ <satellit_!~satellit@bbb72-0-177-190.bendbroadband.com> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:46 erikos ok, what else do we have?
15:46 manuq erikos: I've read what I said about svg and gtk3 in this pdf: https://desktopsummit.org/site[…]%20with%20CSS.pdf
15:47 gonzalo erikos, nothing more from my part
15:49 erikos manuq: nice summary, and they say clearly, try to do everything in css
15:49 manuq erikos: yes
15:49 cjl wonders if this is a good time for a question
15:49 erikos manuq: and if writing a custom style property consider upstreaming
15:50 manuq: good!
15:50 cjl: about gtk3?
15:50 manuq "You should be able to do everything you need with CSS and SVG assets"
15:50 erikos manuq: yes
15:50 cjl erikos sort of.
15:50 erikos cjl: try then, I guess ;p
15:50 satellit_ has quit IRC
15:51 cjl It seems inevitable tha we are going to have a "reed flag" day (when a lot of stuff gets broken at once).
15:51 red
15:51 Does it make sense to have a frozen Fructose 0.94 set or should we ne able to avoid the worst impacts of the change to gtk3 with back-compatibility
15:52 I'm thinking mostly from the Poolte perspective (of course).
15:52 erikos cjl: is your question about translations?
15:53 cjl: and you are saying fructose, so core activities?
15:53 cjl I suspect tha the strings won't change much in the gtk3 port, but I could be wrong
15:53 erikos cjl: no, they should not change indeed
15:54 cjl erikos We've already branched glucose, so we have a fall-back to 0.94 there, but no similar fallback for Fructose
15:54 erikos no need to worry on that end, imho
15:54 cjl: activities branch before doing the gtk3 work
15:55 cjl: so far only browse/read/hello-world/abacus and TA
15:55 cjl Alright, I'll accept such assutances, but alsroot mentioned something about Browse gtk3 work happening in trunk?
15:55 erikos it happens in master yes
15:55 silbe and even if someone forgets to branch, with git it's easy enough to do so later.
15:55 cjl ok
15:55 erikos silbe: sure
15:56 we have a stable branch called sugar-0.94
15:56 cjl Just checking in on a concern.
15:56 erikos yes, better to do so now ;p
15:56 cjl thnaks for the reassurance
15:56 erikos #topic current status of the development cycle
15:56 cjl yes, would hate to get t oa point and say "damn, if only we had saved a branch"
15:57 erikos http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.96/Roadmap
15:57 silbe cjl: that's exactly what VCS are supposed to prevent :)
15:57 erikos so, next monday we will have the "Feature Acceptance" deadline
15:57 followed by a development release
15:58 manuq is afraid to still can't access sl.org
15:58 erikos manuq: we will have a look with bernie after the meeting
15:58 manuq erikos: cool, but it may be my isp
15:59 please go on
15:59 erikos manuq: (see #sugar)
15:59 I don't think we can realistically get a first snapshot of the current work in the release
15:59 (artwork + toolkit + activities)
16:00 but maybe I am wrong and we can :)
16:00 let's see how we advance in the next days
16:00 questions there?
16:00 gonzalo erikos, what you think is not possible?
16:01 erikos gonzalo: have everything reviewed, pushed to master and packaged
16:01 gonzalo erikos, before?
16:01 erikos next Monday
16:02 gonzalo erikos, hmm, we can't help with that
16:02 erikos sees the twinkering in gonzalo's eyes
16:02 gonzalo: let's see - an ambitious goal ;p
16:02 gonzalo and smake over my head
16:02 erikos next topic
16:02 #topic proposed Features for the 0.96 cycle
16:03 anything new since last week?
16:03 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0[…]ed_Features_for_0.96
16:03 gonzalo erikos, oh,, yes, we have 10 more features :)
16:03 erikos is that still our list?
16:03 gonzalo (joke)
16:03 erikos nice!
16:03 gets popcorn and lays back
16:03 walterbender do we have any more info re any of the features?
16:04 erikos gonzalo makes only short jokes since he is worried about my health ;)
16:04 gonzalo ;)
16:05 erikos there have been some discussions about the statistics gathering I have seen
16:05 but the page is still rather empty
16:05 bernie reads backlog
16:05 erikos http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]tistics_gathering
16:05 in terms of how to implement
16:06 and which data they are looking for
16:06 walterbender erikos: it seems that lots of people are thinking about different strategies and they are only just beginning to talk with each other
16:06 silbe erikos: the discussions pointed at an implementation that's entirely outside of Sugar, by watching to DBus signals and sniffing X events => we can reasonably reject this Feature for this cycle.
16:06 bernie manuq: what particular site you can't access?
16:06 manuq: ah, ssh? your IP might have been banned
16:06 manuq: tell me your IP and i'll unban it
16:07 manuq bernie, let's continue in #sugar
16:07 bernie manuq: also rgs_, silbe, dogi and alsroot can respond to admin requests
16:07 erikos bernie thanks! pleas econtinue in #sugar :)
16:07 bernie but you are the best admin :)
16:07 bernie manuq: you can ping any of us on irc or send email to the administrative contacts
16:07 blushes
16:08 erikos silbe: ok, I can read again through it, but sounds ok
16:08 was there a design meeting since then?
16:08 walterbender silbe: +1
16:08 erikos wasn't in any
16:08 walterbender erikos: no
16:09 needs to step out for a few minutes... will read the backlog
16:09 erikos how do we want to continue there, on the design end, I mean
16:09 "Write to Journalanytime" is a candidate to discuss there
16:09 walterbender erikos: we have been having detailed email discussions with Gary and manuq
16:09 gonzalo erikos, garymartin said he prefer work offline
16:10 m_anish erikos, silbe The statistics stuff is not coded yet, but the goals of the implementation are presented here -> https://dev.laptop.org.au/issues/59#note-15
16:10 erikos gonzalo: ok, so maybe open another design thread then per feature
16:10 cjl I don't think the disconnect on statistics is a bad as you might think, I think that alsroot might be involved in both plans.
16:10 manuq walterbender, erikos, gonzalo, yes a design thread per feature will be better
16:10 m_anish erikos, silbe even that is in early stages, since the process of communicating with edu researchers is on in .au (perhaps peru too, /me doesn't have details on that)
16:11 erikos manuq: is a requirement of the feature process anyhow - so let's do this ;p
16:11 manuq erikos: ok :P
16:12 gonzalo erikos, +1
16:14 erikos anything else here?
16:14 thinks we have been going quite long already
16:15 needs to go back to code ;p
16:16 gonzalo ok bye all
16:16 erikos hehe
16:17 gonzalo thanks silbe by review of start activity patch, i will send another :)
16:17 erikos let's meet for another round next week
16:17 thanks everyone for attending!
16:17 silbe gonzalo: yw
16:17 erikos is happy that we do this regularly!
16:17 5
16:18 4
16:18 3
16:18 dos
16:18 1
16:18 #endmeeting
16:18 meeting Meeting ended Tue Nov 29 16:18:28 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
16:18 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-29T14:56:25.html
16:18 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-11-29T14:56:25

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