Time |
Nick |
Message |
14:57 |
meeting |
Meeting started Tue Nov 22 14:57:04 2011 UTC. The chair is erikos. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
14:57 |
|
Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting |
14:57 |
walterbender |
is writing a response to gary's email |
14:57 |
erikos |
...3 minutes to go for the #sugar-meeting |
14:59 |
|
dsd_ <dsd_!~dsd gentoo/developer/dsd> has joined #sugar-meeting |
15:00 |
erikos |
dooooong! |
15:00 |
manuq |
prepares a liquified of banana and strawberries before the meeting |
15:00 |
erikos |
who is here for the sugar developer meeting? |
15:00 |
manuq |
so, meeting time |
15:00 |
erikos |
roll call, please! |
15:01 |
garycmartin |
here! |
15:01 |
manuq |
garycmartin: nice you join us! |
15:01 |
erikos |
"Roll calls are used in places such as classrooms, the military, prisons, law enforcement, camps, and Model United Nations." |
15:01 |
|
wonders where we fit in... |
15:02 |
|
has seen walterbender silbe and gonzalo around as well |
15:03 |
garycmartin |
manuq: hi |
15:03 |
|
bertf <bertf!~quassel static-ip-62-75-165-16.inaddr.ip-pool.com> has joined #sugar-meeting |
15:03 |
dirakx |
here reading. |
15:03 |
manuq |
garycmartin: hi! |
15:03 |
erikos |
let's start! |
15:03 |
|
* status of the GTK3 port |
15:04 |
m_anish |
here :) |
15:04 |
erikos |
we worked a lot on Feature proposal and such this last week |
15:04 |
|
so not too much changes on this end |
15:04 |
|
silbe: has reviewed most of the gtk3-hackfest-toolkit patches |
15:04 |
|
so we advanced here |
15:05 |
|
http://git.sugarlabs.org/sugar[…]e-rework-20111122 |
15:05 |
silbe |
erikos: more reworked than reviewed, but once they are all reworked the review shouldn't take long |
15:06 |
erikos |
silbe: aha, ok |
15:06 |
|
anything else people want to bring up on that topic? |
15:06 |
dsd_ |
its hard to see what was reworked on that branch |
15:06 |
gonzalo |
hello all |
15:06 |
manuq |
erikos: I'm manufacturing patches for Browse, reworking in Daniel's work |
15:07 |
erikos |
dsd_: I think only descriptions |
15:07 |
|
dsd_: and merging of commits |
15:07 |
|
silbe: correct? |
15:07 |
silbe |
we should mention that the GTK3 work will go into a separate repository sugar-toolkit-gtk3, so the current sugar-toolkit repo will stay at GTK2. |
15:08 |
erikos |
silbe: that we already did last week, iirc |
15:08 |
silbe |
erikos: exactly. There should be no functional code changes, only some syntactic ones. |
15:08 |
erikos |
silbe: synctatcic ones? |
15:08 |
|
silbe: you changed syntax? |
15:08 |
silbe |
erikos: once the rework is done (i.e. after the palette work has been completed in erikos' branch), we can do a diff between both trees to make sure of that. |
15:09 |
|
erikos: some line breaks etc. |
15:11 |
|
anything else on the GTK3 topic? |
15:11 |
erikos |
so, I am wondering about API changes |
15:12 |
|
in the gtk-3 toolkit |
15:12 |
|
e.g. removing the old activity toolbar |
15:12 |
|
I guess we can do this *only* in the gtk3-toolkit without any bigger issue |
15:13 |
gonzalo |
erikos, +1 |
15:13 |
silbe |
erikos: +1 |
15:13 |
garycmartin |
erikos: +1 |
15:13 |
erikos |
and the activities that are ported just need to take that into account |
15:13 |
|
great |
15:15 |
silbe |
This is a good opportunity for removing old cruft. But we should be careful not to do (a lot of) other unrelated API changes. The GTK3 porting work is going to be enough work already without muddying the waters. |
15:15 |
erikos |
manuq: re browse, we created the sugar-0.96 branch there for the new development |
15:15 |
manuq |
erikos: yes |
15:15 |
erikos |
^^ more to others ;p |
15:15 |
manuq |
and you commited first patch removing old toolbars usage |
15:15 |
erikos |
silbe: sure |
15:16 |
silbe |
erikos: speaking of sugar-toolkit only. I have other arguments against the sugar changes. ;) |
15:16 |
erikos |
silbe: you mean feature wise? |
15:16 |
silbe |
erikos: yup |
15:17 |
erikos |
ok, let's go into that topic then |
15:17 |
|
unless someone speaks up... |
15:17 |
|
5 |
15:17 |
|
4 |
15:17 |
|
3 |
15:17 |
|
1 |
15:17 |
gonzalo |
erikos, before continue, who will work on gtk3 port? |
15:17 |
erikos |
clocks are fast today :) |
15:17 |
m_anish |
gonzalo, is faster! |
15:17 |
gonzalo |
;) |
15:17 |
erikos |
gonzalo: ok, good question! |
15:18 |
|
dirakx has quit IRC |
15:18 |
gonzalo |
erikos, i am worried about how push it |
15:18 |
erikos |
so, I decided today to only work on gtk3-introspection this cycle |
15:18 |
|
I moved my feature proposals to 0.98 today |
15:18 |
gonzalo |
erikos, i was looking at theme code, but I need a little help to start :( |
15:18 |
dsd_ |
sounds very sensible |
15:19 |
erikos |
gonzalo: sure, we can get you started |
15:19 |
gonzalo |
anybody else.... ? |
15:19 |
erikos |
dsd_: yeah, they were items I wanted to work on for a while, but I don't think we make it otherwise |
15:19 |
|
gonzalo: manuq will work on Browse |
15:19 |
m_anish |
erikos, for 0.96 there are a couple of proposals we'd like to contribute (Network proxy, Stats) most of the stuff would be coded, but a design/code review would be needed |
15:20 |
erikos |
gonzalo: and you read (which should be mostly done I figured) |
15:20 |
gonzalo |
erikos, yes, no problems with read |
15:20 |
erikos |
m_anish: let's stay on the gtk3 point for a bit more (seen your proposals) |
15:20 |
m_anish |
erikos, sorry, pl cont |
15:20 |
|
dirakx <dirakx!~rafael 190.147.143.226> has joined #sugar-meeting |
15:21 |
erikos |
so besides the toolkit, another big area is the theme as Gonzalo pointed out |
15:22 |
|
do we have anyone else working on gtk3 stuff besides manuq/gonzalo and me? |
15:22 |
manuq |
walterbender? |
15:22 |
walterbender |
just from the activity POV |
15:22 |
gonzalo |
dsd_, ? :) |
15:23 |
walterbender |
rgs as well |
15:23 |
|
cscott too |
15:23 |
|
we could help focus all of these efforts |
15:24 |
gonzalo |
walterbender, worried they are not in theses meetings... |
15:24 |
walterbender |
plus I have been looking into recruiting some GNOME hackers recommended to me by J5 |
15:24 |
|
gonzalo: yes... |
15:24 |
erikos |
walterbender: I think those are additional helpers |
15:25 |
walterbender |
gonzalo: but dsd and rgs both helped organize the Prague meeting... |
15:25 |
|
they are very dedicated |
15:25 |
silbe |
is crossing fingers (re. finding Gnome hackers to help with the GTK3 port) |
15:25 |
erikos |
walterbender: sure, but they won't drive that work, I think |
15:25 |
|
walterbender: as they are volunteers |
15:26 |
gonzalo |
i am a little sad, because we have a very nice list of features, but not so much time, and we NEED finish the gtk3 port |
15:26 |
|
and all the nice features are optional |
15:26 |
silbe |
gonzalo: no need to be sad. What doesn't get into 0.96 can get into 0.98. |
15:27 |
walterbender |
except for write to journal anytime :) |
15:27 |
gonzalo |
silbe, yes, but is bad don't have the resources needed |
15:27 |
erikos |
ok, maybe we can summarize the last minutes as: a lot work to do on the gtk3 end, not as many people working on it |
15:28 |
garycmartin |
gonzalo: nothing new there... |
15:28 |
silbe |
gonzalo: It's been this way for years. We always need more devs. |
15:28 |
gonzalo |
garycmartin, old news, is not better :) |
15:28 |
garycmartin |
:) |
15:28 |
erikos |
gonzalo: :) |
15:29 |
|
so I have been thinking over this a lot in the last days, and I have concluded to drop my other Features for this cycle |
15:30 |
|
because even if we manage to get the basics (toolkit/theme/must-activities) done |
15:30 |
|
I prefer to work on porting the shell and other activities (after no hippo + switch to cairo) |
15:30 |
|
now, as we are already working on it |
15:31 |
walterbender |
can help with those efforts |
15:31 |
erikos |
so, all this to say: |
15:32 |
|
thanks for all the Feature proposals :) |
15:32 |
|
but i guess we should look at the list and maybe focus on less items |
15:32 |
silbe |
erikos: are we at the Feature topic now? (if so, please remember #topic) or still at GTK3? |
15:33 |
erikos |
silbe: don't interrupt my bridge ;p |
15:33 |
|
dirakx1 has quit IRC |
15:33 |
erikos |
#topic 0.96 Features |
15:33 |
m_anish |
heh |
15:33 |
erikos |
#link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0[…]ed_Features_for_0.96 |
15:33 |
silbe |
erikos: sorry, thought that was an end-of-frame gap ;) |
15:34 |
erikos |
that is the list I created from the proposals (if any is missing please let me know) |
15:34 |
|
(I did not put the one from James Simons there asit has no owner (yet)) |
15:35 |
|
that one: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]s_As_Hierarchical |
15:35 |
walterbender |
what about the backlight button feature? |
15:36 |
erikos |
walterbender: that was an addition to the display device one, if I understood Paul correctly |
15:36 |
gonzalo |
erikos, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]s/Multi_selection is misssing but I already was thinking in move it to 0.98 |
15:36 |
erikos |
walterbender: which was my Feature, but I dropped it |
15:36 |
walterbender |
ok... |
15:36 |
erikos |
gonzalo: ahh great - let me add it for now |
15:37 |
gonzalo |
or add a table with the moved features |
15:37 |
erikos |
gonzalo: we could do that yes |
15:38 |
|
while I am doing this: |
15:38 |
walterbender |
a Deferred table |
15:38 |
erikos |
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.96/Roadmap |
15:38 |
|
this is our roadmap - Feature Freeze is end of January |
15:38 |
walterbender |
two months... |
15:38 |
erikos |
Feature accepance, Dez 05 |
15:39 |
|
walterbender: yes, with christmas in between |
15:39 |
walterbender |
we are doing well with our planning this go-around |
15:39 |
gonzalo |
erikos, then today we will do a first triage? |
15:39 |
erikos |
gonzalo: sure, if we fins agreement on some items, we can (we should just give the people not in the meting as well a chance to comment) |
15:40 |
|
gonzalo: or at least let them know, so they can scream |
15:40 |
m_anish |
has to run :( |
15:40 |
erikos |
as some have pointed out before: if a Feature does not make 0.96 - there will be a 0.98 |
15:41 |
|
I roughtly drafted that today: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.98/Roadmap |
15:42 |
walterbender |
erikos: it seems we have two classes of features: things we know we want if we have time and things we don't know if we want. Would it make sense to put things into those two bins to start? |
15:42 |
silbe |
walterbender: sounds like a useful first iteration of filtering. |
15:42 |
erikos |
walterbender: yes, sounds good |
15:43 |
|
* Global Text to Speech When the user press Alt+Shift+S the currently selected text should be said by the computer. |
15:43 |
|
(I will just add a tag and alter the table later) |
15:43 |
walterbender |
seems like a "things we want if we have time" |
15:43 |
manuq |
and is already coded |
15:43 |
garycmartin |
+1 |
15:43 |
manuq |
gonzalo: ^ |
15:44 |
silbe |
with serious design considerations at least - this sounds like something that should live in the clipboard instead... |
15:44 |
erikos |
manuq: yes we have code, but we should discuss the approach |
15:44 |
gonzalo |
erikos, i think is very isolated, and almost ready (C) |
15:44 |
erikos |
manuq: but looks good yes |
15:44 |
manuq |
erikos: of course |
15:45 |
gonzalo |
then? |
15:45 |
erikos |
ok, anyone objects against that one? |
15:45 |
|
marks it yes for now |
15:45 |
|
Walter Bender || [[Features/Write_to_journal_anytime]] || Replacement for the Naming Alert that lets you write to the Journal at any time while working on an activity. |
15:46 |
walterbender |
sent a reply to Gary's email just before the meeting |
15:46 |
manuq |
+1 |
15:46 |
silbe |
BTW, as a general observation, I loved seeing so many ideas proposed, but the timing could be better. Most of them were proposed right on the deadline. This increases the risk of hitting resource limits. Remember that both the Design Team and reviewers are still a scarce resource... |
15:46 |
erikos |
gets a plus one from me as we already invested a lot in that (3 cycles?) |
15:46 |
walterbender |
we need to agree on how, not if |
15:47 |
gonzalo |
+1 |
15:47 |
garycmartin |
+1 |
15:47 |
erikos |
silbe: the deadline today is about poposing |
15:47 |
|
silbe: we have until the 5th of december to decide inclusion |
15:47 |
silbe |
erikos: that's not a lot of time to decide on so many proposals. |
15:47 |
walterbender |
erikos: huh? what are we saying +1 to? |
15:47 |
erikos |
walterbender: sure the how is important, but we have to see where to invest ;p |
15:48 |
silbe |
FWIW, a clear +1 on trying to get this one finished this cycle. |
15:48 |
erikos |
silbe: we can increase next time, if you look at the last cycles we already are doing way way better |
15:48 |
|
marks it yes |
15:49 |
silbe |
erikos: make sure you reload the page before doing any editing; you seem to have an old copy still open. |
15:50 |
|
erikos: I'm arguing against sudden rushes of activity, not against the schedule. I don't mind having "just" two weeks to decide over the last _few_ proposals. |
15:50 |
manuq |
garycmartin: just read your email on that feature, great |
15:51 |
erikos |
silbe: hmm not sure, I understand the exact issue |
15:51 |
walterbender |
silbe: I thought we were just trying to cull the obvious yeses (and even those need some discussion) |
15:51 |
erikos |
walterbender: yes, I understood that too |
15:52 |
silbe |
walterbender: sorry for distracting from the topic at hand. Please go on. |
15:52 |
erikos |
* Gonzalo OdiardJournal data tagged private or public Provide a way to identify Journal entries as private for the owner or public. |
15:52 |
|
what about this one? |
15:53 |
walterbender |
garycmartin raised some good points that need further discussion |
15:53 |
erikos |
(there is an interesting comment from Gary on this one in his last mail) |
15:53 |
silbe |
interesting proposal, but should be made more general first. |
15:53 |
garycmartin |
Yes, I don't see a path forward on this one yet. |
15:53 |
silbe |
in particular, extending the existing tags support to support this use case sounds like a good plan. |
15:54 |
walterbender |
silbe: I think we need a more general look at the tagging (similar to what was proposed in Montevideo) for which this could be then leveraged |
15:54 |
silbe |
walterbender: got a link for the proposal from Montevideo? |
15:54 |
walterbender |
gonzalo: ^^ |
15:55 |
gonzalo |
erikos, i have read gary comments, we need discuss it. the learning team need it, not only to save backup space, but to enable them to make evaluations without have problems with private data |
15:55 |
|
silbe, yes, in the feature there are links |
15:56 |
walterbender |
gonzalo: maybe we can discuss this further at tomorrow's meeting |
15:56 |
silbe |
gonzalo: a link to the proposal, not links in the proposal :) |
15:56 |
erikos |
gonzalo: so maybe it has to be done the other way around then, everything is private by default, and you tag what can be evaluated |
15:56 |
silbe |
gonzalo: I wasn't in Montevideo so I don't know what you are talking about. |
15:57 |
gonzalo |
erikos, that is not a good option to evaluators obviously |
15:58 |
erikos |
gonzalo: of course ;p |
15:58 |
|
gonzalo: but privacy... |
15:58 |
silbe |
gonzalo: and FWIW, users can already set tags in the details view. Adding a "school" tag would address at least some parts, though the workflow could be improved. |
15:58 |
walterbender |
silbe: it was an extension of http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/D[…]Proposals/Journal |
15:58 |
garycmartin |
gonzalo: are evaluators needing to look at data, or metadata about usage? |
15:59 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: depends on the activity |
15:59 |
gonzalo |
silbe, of course, but the problme we arer trying to solve is , in the actual implementaion nobody use tags, because is not clear, tot useful |
15:59 |
erikos |
walterbender: can you give an example? |
15:59 |
silbe |
gonzalo: as discussed with garycmartin during SugarCamp Paris 2011, we could record quite some interesting data to make tagging more automatic. E.g. being connected to the school AP might give a hint... |
15:59 |
gonzalo |
silbe, yes, if you have a school ap :) |
15:59 |
walterbender |
erikos: in TA, the evaluators are interested in what types of blocks were used to solve a problem |
16:00 |
gonzalo |
but abyway, the objective of this meeting is not dicuss this feature |
16:00 |
walterbender |
erikos: and they are interested in how many iterations the learning made in solving the problem |
16:00 |
erikos |
walterbender: ok, I thought this was part of the other Feature |
16:00 |
|
gonzalo: right |
16:00 |
gonzalo |
erikos, i think is a important feature,but need more analysis |
16:00 |
walterbender |
erikos: the former is data; the later is metadata about usage |
16:00 |
erikos |
ok |
16:01 |
|
yes, let's move on |
16:01 |
|
does not tag that for now (as to above discussion) |
16:01 |
silbe |
+1, both this one and the data collection one are not ready for upstream inclusion yet IMO |
16:01 |
walterbender |
erikos: I was just answering your question... but I don't think it is relevant to the private/public debate... |
16:01 |
|
or rather, it is orthogona; |
16:01 |
erikos |
walterbender: ok |
16:01 |
silbe |
that shouldn't preclude anyone from working on it, quite the contrary... |
16:02 |
walterbender |
silbe: I agree that this one needs more discussion. |
16:02 |
erikos |
* Walter BenderMultiple Home Views Option to have different collections of activities on the Home View for formal (classroom) and informal (home) use. |
16:02 |
silbe |
this is very similar :) |
16:02 |
gonzalo |
silbe, but is not the same |
16:02 |
walterbender |
I made some additional comments on the feature page this morning |
16:02 |
silbe |
a tagged Home View would be great, but it needs more work first. |
16:03 |
walterbender |
silbe: this is a more simple idea |
16:03 |
gonzalo |
walterbender, should not be better modify the home view after we remove hippo and port to gtk3? |
16:03 |
walterbender |
silbe: the most simple form would be to see either starred or unstarred activities in the homeview |
16:03 |
silbe |
walterbender: to me, it's almost the same. A boolean tag for filtering the Journal vs. a boolean tag for filtering the Home View. |
16:03 |
erikos |
gonzalo: I was thinking that, yes :/ |
16:04 |
walterbender |
silbe: in that sense, similar |
16:04 |
|
silbe: but for very different use cases |
16:04 |
silbe |
walterbender: in both cases we should try to generalise it to arbitrary tags, rather than a single boolean. |
16:04 |
walterbender |
silbe: not sure I agree |
16:04 |
silbe |
walterbender: I thought both were about marking stuff as "used in school" vs. "used at home"? |
16:04 |
gonzalo |
silbe, hmmm |
16:04 |
walterbender |
maybe in the code, but not in the UI |
16:04 |
erikos |
gonzalo: it is of course easier if the shell is not that much of a moving target |
16:05 |
walterbender |
silbe: that was the cover story |
16:05 |
|
gonzalo: if we did this, we'd only do it for the new version (gtk-3) |
16:06 |
erikos |
gonzalo: but the same is actually to the other features like the write to journal |
16:06 |
silbe |
walterbender: there's no GTK3 version of sugar yet, only of sugar-toolkit and that one is still incomplete. |
16:06 |
erikos |
walterbender: but how would that look like schedule wise? |
16:06 |
gonzalo |
walterbender, we will have only one version of the shell |
16:06 |
garycmartin |
here's me wishing we could ditch the home list view, an now we're talking about the favourite home view growing even more limbs! ;) |
16:07 |
erikos |
garycmartin: haha |
16:07 |
walterbender |
erikos: I could do the starred/unstarred version pretty quickly... maybe I will so people can get a feel for it. |
16:07 |
erikos |
walterbender: no, what I meant is, how does that interact with the shell moving to gtk3 |
16:08 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: we've talked about both the views and the journal being fungible |
16:08 |
|
erikos: it doesn |
16:08 |
silbe |
erikos: I don't see sugar ("the shell" as you call it) moving to GTK3 this cycle TBH. |
16:08 |
walterbender |
't impact how the homeview interacts with the shell |
16:08 |
erikos |
remembered that some people argued that we should freeze the repos while doing the porting work |
16:09 |
|
silbe: well, if we would focus on it |
16:09 |
walterbender |
erikos: ^^ then we have nothing to discuss today.... |
16:10 |
gonzalo |
walterbender, if the change is have two list of "favorites" instead of one, is not very invasive |
16:10 |
erikos |
walterbender: I am just thinking out loud |
16:10 |
gonzalo |
i am not sure about design |
16:10 |
walterbender |
gonzalo: I think it is even more simple |
16:10 |
|
gonzalo: you could make it just a view starred vs view unstarred |
16:11 |
gonzalo |
walterbender, hmm, but then you have all or favorites? |
16:11 |
walterbender |
well, this is obviously not in the consensus camp... |
16:11 |
|
I'll work on it on the side but we seem to be deferring |
16:14 |
manuq |
I can see home view getting more filters other than the name... activity tags, etc, in the future |
16:14 |
silbe |
walterbender: you might want to have a look at the Firefox tab grouping feature |
16:14 |
erikos |
ok, do we have items in the list that people particularly care about? that are non-controversial? |
16:15 |
walterbender |
erikos: I care about all the ones I proposed :P |
16:15 |
erikos |
walterbender: :) |
16:16 |
silbe |
erikos: Proxy configuration is at least orthogonal to everything else |
16:16 |
erikos |
silbe: and self contained |
16:16 |
silbe |
erikos: exactly |
16:16 |
gonzalo |
walterbender, i think "thumbs view in journal" is a more invassive change.... |
16:16 |
garycmartin |
erikos: storing more automatic metadata seems like something that could potentially land. |
16:16 |
erikos |
gonzalo: yeah, don't want to do that now |
16:16 |
walterbender |
silbe: but as was pointed out in the email discussion, it needs to be done in a way that doesn't mess up the customization proxy systems in use in the field |
16:17 |
erikos |
gonzalo: it already ate up nearly one cycle and in the end we had nothing |
16:17 |
|
walterbender: yes |
16:17 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: at least we can agree on the internal mechanism? |
16:17 |
|
so activity authors can get started |
16:18 |
gonzalo |
walterbender, +1 |
16:18 |
|
and the data will be available |
16:18 |
|
(and we can create a portfolio like activity if needed in the intermediatiate time) |
16:18 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: well I think you were raising something extra, over and above storing extra metadata. You were also proposing an API for and activity to hard |
16:19 |
erikos |
garycmartin: yes, agreed - that looks like something doable |
16:19 |
garycmartin |
for an activity to mark the display of it in the Journal details view. |
16:19 |
gonzalo |
garycmartin, just only agree about how to save the metadata |
16:19 |
silbe |
walterbender: +1, let's discuss that on sugar-devel. Sorry for still not having writting the guide on custom metadata (using bundle_id as a prefix and all that). |
16:19 |
walterbender |
but I think that I may try to write a Journal activity to incorporate these new Journal features outside of Sugar... |
16:20 |
|
that way we can get some experience but not have to make a lot of changes this cycle |
16:20 |
silbe |
walterbender: +1, custom Journal activities are a very good way to experiment with new features. |
16:20 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: OK, well perhaps this is a -1 for this feature as well. |
16:21 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: I really think it is important to land a mechanism this go around... |
16:21 |
|
garycmartin: whether or not we land a UI |
16:21 |
garycmartin |
(was hoping we could at least gather activity wide data like number of resumes) |
16:21 |
gonzalo |
walterbender, +1 |
16:21 |
walterbender |
seems like we have consensus on that point |
16:22 |
erikos |
tries to summarize: |
16:22 |
|
* Proxy configuration |
16:22 |
|
- yes, the author should make sure it does not break with existing configurations |
16:23 |
|
sounds good? |
16:23 |
silbe |
+1 for now |
16:23 |
erikos |
silbe: (yes always for now) |
16:23 |
walterbender |
+1 |
16:23 |
silbe |
k |
16:23 |
gonzalo |
+1 |
16:24 |
manuq |
+1 |
16:24 |
erikos |
* Activity specific metadata in Journal |
16:25 |
|
- gather activity wide data, no UI for now |
16:25 |
manuq |
yeah |
16:25 |
walterbender |
+1 (walter will write a Journal activity) |
16:25 |
silbe |
=> no changes in Sugar required, purely activity work |
16:25 |
gonzalo |
+1 |
16:26 |
erikos |
only custom ds-metadata I guess |
16:26 |
gonzalo |
and agree/document a way to save the meatadata |
16:26 |
erikos |
gonzalo: good point |
16:26 |
garycmartin |
silbe: Hmmm. No, this is a sugar change, keeping track of e.g. resumes of an entry |
16:27 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: not in the short term :P... activities will have to do that themselves. |
16:27 |
gonzalo |
walterbender, can be a good idea |
16:28 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: Hmmm2, well then this is of close to zero benefit in most cases :( |
16:28 |
erikos |
looks like we still differ here |
16:28 |
silbe |
garycmartin: that would be a workaround for the lack of a data store with version support (that I really need to work on including in 0.98). It's easy enough to add to an activity. |
16:28 |
gonzalo |
:) |
16:28 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: I agree... but it seems we have to come up with the internal design first |
16:28 |
garycmartin |
silbe: 'It's easy enough to add to an activity.' but almost no one will. |
16:29 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: and also, we still need more feedback from the learning team as to what *every* activity should record |
16:29 |
manuq |
maybe sugar can output the automatic metadata in the logs as a first approach? |
16:29 |
gonzalo |
silbe, if was no done yet, i don't see why will be done in 0.98 |
16:29 |
walterbender |
presumed that icarito's proposal was going to provide some insight here, but it is vague at the moment. |
16:29 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: the data store is already keeping data for creation and modified date, why not resume count? |
16:30 |
silbe |
gonzalo: I'm using a data store with version support every day (in fact even two different ones). The work I need to do is upstreaming it, not implementing it. |
16:30 |
gonzalo |
manuq, no, the logs are cleared |
16:30 |
manuq |
gonzalo: yes, not very useful, but can be a start |
16:32 |
erikos |
ok, let's wrap that one up |
16:32 |
gonzalo |
silbe, well, is only useful if is in the kids hands |
16:32 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: it is trivial to add... |
16:32 |
erikos |
I think this one needs more discussion, but people seem interested in it |
16:33 |
walterbender |
erikos: can I propose that (1) we come up with the mechanism and (2) if we can come up with a definitive list of things to automatically include before the freeze date, we consider them? |
16:33 |
|
but no display in the Journal this round |
16:33 |
gonzalo |
walterbender, +1 |
16:33 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: +1 |
16:34 |
erikos |
walterbender: yes, for the inclusion for the cycle, that looks like enough ground |
16:34 |
|
updated the list |
16:35 |
|
we have 4 items now |
16:35 |
walterbender |
how about journal volume extension? |
16:36 |
gonzalo |
walterbender, +1 is a easy change |
16:36 |
silbe |
walterbender: technically not possible without major changes |
16:36 |
gonzalo |
silbe, ? |
16:36 |
walterbender |
silbe: how so? |
16:36 |
silbe |
walterbender: it might be once I finished (and upstreamed) my WebDAV work |
16:37 |
gonzalo |
silbe, the proposed change is very simple |
16:37 |
silbe |
walterbender: because we can't distinguish between multiple directories that are not gio mount points |
16:37 |
gonzalo |
and only invlve the ObjectChooser |
16:39 |
walterbender |
silbe: I guess I need to read up more on gio mount |
16:39 |
gonzalo |
silbe, the idea is do the same we do with 'Documents' folder, but with a defined by the activity folder |
16:40 |
erikos |
I like the idea from Gary (from a wrking point of view) to just invoke the objectchooser with a given directory |
16:40 |
silbe |
walterbender: the problem is in the internals of the Journal, where we don't pass around the mount point, but derive it on the fly. |
16:41 |
|
gonzalo: it works with the Documents folder because that's the only one that isn't a gio mount point. |
16:41 |
gonzalo |
silbe, my god..... |
16:43 |
silbe |
gonzalo: I've mostly finished fixing that up, but it's too late to propose for inclusion in 0.96. |
16:44 |
gonzalo |
silbe, would be good, looks like a bug not a feature |
16:44 |
silbe |
gonzalo: it's a rather invasive set of changes |
16:44 |
gonzalo |
silbe, ok |
16:45 |
erikos |
sooooo, shall we close the discussion here for now? |
16:45 |
|
we are running largely overdue |
16:45 |
silbe |
fortunately it barely touches the UI side, so should not clash with the GTK3 work. |
16:45 |
erikos |
and I think we advanced quite wel |
16:45 |
|
l |
16:45 |
walterbender |
erikos: seems we must defer, but if we can land the staging -- silbe's patch -- it seems we should |
16:46 |
erikos |
walterbender: which patch? |
16:46 |
|
silbe: you are talking about your webdav support, right? |
16:46 |
walterbender |
erikos: his almost completed patch to sort out mount points in the Journal ^^ |
16:47 |
|
silbe: I don't know where your webdav work is described,hosted. |
16:47 |
silbe |
erikos: about WebDAV support and the fixes it required to the Journal internals. |
16:47 |
gonzalo |
erikos, i supose we will not need webdav support to solve as design issue in the journal.... |
16:47 |
silbe |
walterbender: only on my XOs so far. |
16:48 |
erikos |
gonzalo: I don't understand the implications fully, tbh |
16:48 |
walterbender |
silbe: maybe you could write a summary description to devel? |
16:48 |
silbe |
walterbender: if you remind me next Monday, I will. |
16:49 |
walterbender |
silbe: will do... |
16:51 |
erikos |
ok, I would like to wrap up here: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0[…]ed_Features_for_0.96 |
16:51 |
|
this is what we mostly agreed on |
16:51 |
|
looks like still a sane list to me |
16:51 |
walterbender |
erikos: one more we didn't discuss: homeview background image :) |
16:51 |
erikos |
silbe: you will be as well available for feature review, right? |
16:52 |
silbe |
erikos: in general or at a specific time? The former is an obvious yes. |
16:52 |
erikos |
silbe: only in general |
16:52 |
silbe |
(since this is what we've been doing the last hour or so) |
16:53 |
erikos |
silbe: I meant code wise |
16:53 |
silbe |
sure, I'll review as usual. Which is another reason I don't like sudden rushes of activity, as I'll be the bottleneck in that case. |
16:54 |
erikos |
silbe: right, we two are the ones that have to review all that |
16:54 |
|
silbe: that is why I was interested to have a smaller list of features |
16:55 |
|
walterbender: I guess, you do not want to hear my esthatical conerns do you? ;p |
16:55 |
silbe |
erikos: I'm also interested in reducing the number because I'm part of the Design |
16:55 |
erikos |
silbe: yes |
16:55 |
silbe |
erikos: I'm also interested in reducing the number because I'm part of the Design Team as well - another bottleneck. :-/ |
16:55 |
garycmartin |
erikos: don't worry, has to get past the design team first before you can block on it ;) |
16:55 |
silbe |
erikos: many of the ideas were very interesting, though. Would love to see them followed up some time later. |
16:55 |
erikos |
and better to do a few well done features, than many half broken ones |
16:56 |
silbe |
erikos: +10 |
16:56 |
|
there are enough of the latter in Gnome 3 |
16:56 |
|
runs & hides |
16:57 |
erikos |
silbe: yes, I am very happy about the response to the call for feautures |
16:57 |
|
loves GNOME 3, even if it has some issues |
16:57 |
|
garycmartin: :) |
16:58 |
walterbender |
has pies to make for Thanksgiving... |
16:58 |
erikos |
sees the 2 hours mark approaching |
16:58 |
silbe |
walterbender: have fun! |
16:58 |
erikos |
yeah, let's wrap up |
16:58 |
walterbender |
I guess background image is a no go :P |
16:58 |
erikos |
I think it was broductive |
16:58 |
|
bro? productive |
16:58 |
silbe |
walterbender: sounds like a great custom hack for your developers ;) |
16:59 |
erikos |
hehe, yeah |
16:59 |
|
you have to earn it! |
16:59 |
silbe |
walterbender: young, even |
17:00 |
|
ok, anything else to discuss to get past the two hour mark? |
17:00 |
erikos |
no sounds good - thanks everyone for attending! |
17:00 |
gonzalo |
bye all! |
17:00 |
erikos |
#endmeeting |
17:00 |
meeting |
Meeting ended Tue Nov 22 17:00:57 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
17:00 |
|
Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-22T14:57:04.html |
17:00 |
|
Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-11-22T14:57:04 |