Time |
Nick |
Message |
15:03 |
meeting |
Meeting started Mon Aug 15 15:03:10 2011 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
15:03 |
|
Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting |
15:03 |
garycmartin |
erikos: Hey, hi! |
15:03 |
erikos |
manuq, (the commands are #startmeeting and #endmeeting) |
15:04 |
manuq |
erikos: ok, maybe I will next time :) |
15:04 |
erikos |
manuq, :) |
15:04 |
manuq |
topics? |
15:04 |
erikos |
so as today is Feature freeze any remaining questions about features would be great to discuss |
15:05 |
|
maybe we can go quickly through the list of potential features and see where there are open items |
15:05 |
manuq |
yes |
15:05 |
gonzalo |
for example filter in favorites view :) |
15:06 |
manuq |
gonzalo: that's hot bread :) |
15:06 |
|
gonzalo: any screenshot? |
15:07 |
walterbender |
OK... |
15:07 |
|
#topic feature review |
15:09 |
gonzalo |
manuq, is best try it :) |
15:09 |
erikos |
manuq, http://dev.laptop.org/~erikos/Pantallazo-1.png |
15:10 |
manuq |
gonzalo: I did |
15:10 |
erikos |
manuq, this is the filter Feature |
15:10 |
|
gonzalo, it is good to have a screenshot for discussion |
15:10 |
manuq |
erikos: thanks |
15:10 |
gonzalo |
erikos, it's true, thanks for doing it |
15:10 |
manuq |
gonzalo: yes, but maybe garycmartin, etc didn't find the time to test it |
15:11 |
|
well for me, a big +1 for this |
15:11 |
garycmartin |
manuq: yes I've not been able to test your patches here. |
15:11 |
silbe |
gonzalo: at first glance, I'd prefer the going-gray effect (Neighbourhood) |
15:11 |
|
gonzalo: whatever we choose (alpha or gray), we should be consistent between the Neighbourhood and the Home View. |
15:12 |
garycmartin |
+1 to consistancy |
15:13 |
gonzalo |
silbe, garycmartin, i think the colors have a different meaning in the home view |
15:13 |
Cerlyn |
gonzalo: As far as I know in both cases they are the colors of the person who first started the (potentially shared) activity |
15:13 |
garycmartin |
erikos: how does this look with an XO in monochrome (I think a good part of the original reason for going to a default grey)? |
15:14 |
erikos |
garycmartin, the filter one? |
15:14 |
garycmartin |
gonzalo: search filtering is search filtering, water you do it in Neighbourhood or Home view so should be consistent. |
15:16 |
|
water -> whether |
15:17 |
|
gonzalo: can you describe how you see the meaning of colours being different? |
15:18 |
erikos |
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.94/Feature_List is a list of items |
15:18 |
walterbender |
erikos: and $HOME/Documents :P |
15:18 |
|
just resubmitted the patch |
15:18 |
erikos |
walterbender, sorry!!! |
15:19 |
silbe |
erikos: thanks for the list! |
15:19 |
erikos |
walterbender, done |
15:20 |
gonzalo |
garycmartin, in the home the color show if you already started the activity (and if we started it with another kid) , in the nb view all the ap have a color |
15:20 |
silbe |
gonzalo: your patch doesn't seem to work for me. I can enter filter text (e.g. "browse"), but the icons don't change in any way. |
15:20 |
erikos |
silbe, let's try to discuss the design first |
15:20 |
gonzalo |
silbe, do you have the patch to icon applied? |
15:21 |
erikos |
please no details to implementation |
15:21 |
gonzalo |
silbe, this patch need the startup animation patches |
15:21 |
silbe |
erikos: that's exactly what I wanted to try out. I'd like to compare the two effects (going gray vs. alpha). |
15:21 |
garycmartin |
gonzalo: OK, now I understand what your trying to solve :) |
15:22 |
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15:22 |
silbe |
gonzalo: ah! Please mention dependencies in the patch description. |
15:22 |
gonzalo |
silbe, ok, sorry |
15:22 |
walterbender |
forgot once again to mention the xdg dependency in the description of the $HOME/Documents patch :( |
15:23 |
garycmartin |
gonzalo: (though the filter grey is much lighter than the 'no state to resume yet' darker grey) |
15:23 |
erikos |
silbe, ok, sorry |
15:24 |
gonzalo |
garycmartin, ahh, is a subtle difference |
15:24 |
garycmartin |
erikos: Did you managed to experiment much with the rounded rect highlighting we had been discussing a while back as a possible replacement? |
15:25 |
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15:25 |
erikos |
garycmartin, the rectangle like when you hover over the icon? |
15:25 |
garycmartin |
erikos: yea. |
15:25 |
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15:25 |
erikos |
garycmartin, no, I did not play with that, but told gonzalo as an option this morning |
15:26 |
garycmartin |
gonzalo: can your new search filter effect effect be applied to Neighbourhood/Group views? |
15:26 |
erikos |
garycmartin, maybe we should do both? |
15:27 |
gonzalo |
garycmartin, yes it can. |
15:27 |
erikos |
walterbender, can you add screenshots to your items? |
15:27 |
|
walterbender, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.94/Feature_List |
15:27 |
walterbender |
erikos: doing that right now |
15:27 |
erikos |
walterbender, wonderful ;p |
15:28 |
silbe |
gonzalo: still doesn't work for me; no error messages in the logs. => can't try it out |
15:28 |
garycmartin |
gonzalo: Did you manage to solve the case of accidental keyboard typing ending up in the search filter perhaps your hippo removing work has solved this (we had no sane place to place the default input focus before) |
15:29 |
erikos |
ok, I would summarize the following for the filter item: |
15:29 |
|
- people agree that it is useful and like it in general |
15:29 |
silbe |
I don't think we should decide on it today, without being able to compare the two effects carefully. The Home View filter feature in general is a good idea, though. |
15:30 |
erikos |
- we should explore a few more posibilities (grey circle, same filter in mesh view) |
15:30 |
silbe |
erikos: +1 |
15:30 |
erikos |
silbe, right, just was about to say that |
15:30 |
|
s/grey circle/grey rectangle |
15:30 |
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christophd <christophd!christophd 188-22-150-133.adsl.highway.telekom.at> has joined #sugar-meeting |
15:31 |
walterbender |
erikos: screenshots added... |
15:31 |
erikos |
gonzalo, if you drive it and reach consensus soon we might be able to land it as an exception |
15:31 |
|
gonzalo, sounds good? |
15:31 |
|
gonzalo, any questions about the points people raised here? |
15:32 |
|
walterbender, thanks! |
15:32 |
gonzalo |
erikos, ok, i will try the two options (alpha in nb view/rectangle in home) and send screenshots, ok? |
15:32 |
erikos |
gonzalo, yes, great |
15:33 |
gonzalo |
garycmartin, silbe: do you agree? |
15:33 |
erikos |
gonzalo, I think best is to open a thread under [DESIGN] |
15:33 |
gonzalo |
erikos, ok |
15:33 |
|
i will |
15:34 |
walterbender |
but again, +1 to the general idea... it is a pain to find activities sometimes when there are sooo many |
15:34 |
erikos |
walterbender, yes! |
15:34 |
|
walterbender, I think we all agree about that |
15:35 |
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15:35 |
silbe |
gonzalo: it's ok with me. |
15:35 |
walterbender |
shall we go to the next feature in the list? |
15:35 |
erikos |
yes |
15:35 |
|
- Startup animation |
15:35 |
walterbender |
startup animation |
15:36 |
garycmartin |
gonzalo: if we apply you effect consistently to Neighbourhood/Group/Home (and it's reasonably visible in XO monochrome) I think it should be fine (rounded rect highlights was just an idea we were kicking around before). The Home filter default input focus is the one to make sure is fixed, that was why filtering there was disabled in the first place. |
15:36 |
erikos |
to summarize the current situation: Gonzalo offered to land the alpha code now and work on the double-buffer code with the additions Gary proposed |
15:37 |
|
silbe, what was the exact issue you had design wise? |
15:37 |
icarito |
did the disign meeting move to mondays? I thought it was wednesdays? |
15:38 |
silbe |
garycmartin: FWIW I'd consider it a bug if characters typed in the Home View don't end in the filter. We should find a different solution if the filter is confusing users. |
15:38 |
icarito |
(sorry to interrupt) |
15:38 |
gonzalo |
icarito, yes, was moved to monday |
15:38 |
silbe |
icarito: yes, it's Mondays now. We're postponing the AC meeting until after the Design Team meeting, sorry for the short notice. |
15:38 |
icarito |
ok |
15:39 |
|
thanks |
15:40 |
silbe |
erikos: the change affects all pulsing icons, not just the launcher screen. One of the other pulsing icons - IIRC the AP icon - wasn't as "readable" after the change. |
15:40 |
|
erikos: let me try to look up the discussion - or do you have a Patchwork link handy? |
15:40 |
erikos |
gonzalo, ^^ |
15:41 |
gonzalo |
silbe, yes, let me look |
15:42 |
garycmartin |
silbe: I would say this is a case of low floor. Accidental key presses by a small child 'disabling their activities' vs. asking a more advanced user to first click in the search field before typing. |
15:42 |
erikos |
silbe, http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ugust/032610.html |
15:42 |
|
silbe, this is the ml discussion |
15:42 |
silbe |
#link https://patchwork.sugarlabs.org/patch/734/ |
15:42 |
erikos |
garycmartin, ohh, I see now your concern |
15:42 |
silbe |
garycmartin: the filter should just gray out, not prevent interaction (does it?) |
15:43 |
gonzalo |
garycmartin, the filte only highlight, do not disable |
15:44 |
silbe |
garycmartin: maybe we should add a "feature level", like the "language level" in DrScheme? ;) |
15:44 |
garycmartin |
gonzalo: does not disable, good! :) |
15:44 |
gonzalo |
garycmartin, maybe is another reason to not use grey :) |
15:45 |
garycmartin |
gonzalo: ;) |
15:45 |
silbe |
erikos: the issue I previously had with the patch (haven't tried the new one yet) was that the icon "vanishes" during pulsing, making it hard to recognise. The previous behaviour is to change between two colours, keeping the "structure" of the icon always recognisable. |
15:45 |
erikos |
garycmartin, I guess we have the same situation in other places: Journal, mesh view... |
15:46 |
|
silbe, in the design thread this has been discussed to be fine as an intermediate step |
15:46 |
silbe |
erikos: intermediate step to what? |
15:46 |
erikos |
gonzalo, your feature ^^^ ;p |
15:47 |
garycmartin |
erikos: Yes, but those are not the first page a user is presented with. Also the Journal at least has a little message "No matching entries" and a butting for "Clear search". |
15:47 |
|
butting -> button |
15:47 |
erikos |
garycmartin, good point indeed |
15:47 |
gonzalo |
silbe, to another animation, with alpha but with a gray icon in the background |
15:48 |
walterbender |
gonzalo: that would seem to address the concern about disappearing icons |
15:48 |
gonzalo |
walterbender, yes |
15:48 |
silbe |
gonzalo: then why don't we land that one instead? ;) |
15:49 |
gonzalo |
silbe, because, the code is more complex and was not reviewed |
15:49 |
silbe |
back when I tried your patch, it was a rather significant regression under some lighting conditions. |
15:49 |
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15:50 |
silbe |
I don't remember what exactly those conditions were. Might have been in a bus (=> constantly changing lighting, laptop backlight off). |
15:51 |
gonzalo |
silbe, may be we can try with this bus :) |
15:51 |
silbe |
gonzalo: I don't take that bus anymore since I moved, but wider testing is definitely a good idea. |
15:52 |
erikos |
I would say, let's get it in |
15:52 |
|
because it does fix the issue where we have a white screen for a while |
15:53 |
|
on xo1s |
15:53 |
silbe |
gonzalo: Right now all I can see is that a) there's a regression in visibility and b) it claims to improve performance, but doesn't give any numbers. |
15:53 |
garycmartin |
let's get it in +1 and fix it up as soon as possible. |
15:53 |
erikos |
that does seem more important than the lightning case to me |
15:53 |
walterbender |
silbe: there were some numbers in one of the threads |
15:53 |
garycmartin |
activity start up time is a critical metric. |
15:53 |
silbe |
erikos: hopefully there'll be no lightning :-P |
15:54 |
erikos |
:) |
15:54 |
silbe |
walterbender: do you have a link handy? |
15:54 |
walterbender |
looks |
15:55 |
silbe |
garycmartin: if it's just about latency, how about we first show an uncoloured icon and start the animation afterwards? |
15:56 |
garycmartin |
silbe: watching the side by side videos gonzalo uploaded, XO-1.5s saves between 2 and 3 seconds with the simple fade effect, and it shows the zoom animation part. |
15:56 |
silbe |
garycmartin: I wouldn't mind if it'd affect only the launcher. But it affects all pulsing icons. |
15:56 |
gonzalo |
silbe, the problem with the actual startup animation is, every time we change the size or the color, the svg is renderered again |
15:57 |
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silbe, this take a long time in xos |
15:57 |
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15:57 |
walterbender |
silbe: In the thread http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]ugust/032610.html are side-by-side comparisons and some very rough numbers |
15:58 |
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15:58 |
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15:58 |
walterbender |
gonzalo: yes... I was considering simplifying the TA icon to speed up launch :P |
15:58 |
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15:58 |
gonzalo |
walterbender: ha ha |
15:59 |
silbe |
have the videos been removed from Youtube? I can't download them using cclive or youtube-dl. |
15:59 |
erikos |
gonzalo, I would say: please look at the other occasions of the pulsing icon and see if there are any major differences |
15:59 |
|
gonzalo, take a bus if necessary ;p |
15:59 |
silbe |
lol |
15:59 |
manuq |
silbe: no, they are still there |
15:59 |
silbe |
hmpf |
15:59 |
gonzalo |
silbe, i can see the videos |
16:00 |
silbe |
gonzalo: do you still have the source files? can you upload them as plain files somewhere, e.g. people.sugarlabs.org? |
16:00 |
erikos |
gonzalo, just to see if major and if you think you can fix it if there in the upcoming weeks |
16:00 |
|
silbe, the patches are submitted |
16:00 |
silbe |
erikos: I meant the source for the youtube videos |
16:00 |
erikos |
ok, lets move on |
16:00 |
silbe |
erikos: +1 for moving on |
16:01 |
walterbender |
cloning :) |
16:01 |
gonzalo |
erikos, ok |
16:01 |
erikos |
- Add 'clone' to view source submenu |
16:02 |
|
any major issues design wise? |
16:02 |
|
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]ne-screenshot.png |
16:02 |
manuq |
maybe a better icon? |
16:02 |
|
more like the duplicate icon? |
16:03 |
erikos |
(note UI freeze is in a week: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0[…]/Roadmap#Schedule small UI changes can be made until then) |
16:03 |
garycmartin |
manuq: +1 for duplicate icon |
16:03 |
walterbender |
takes note |
16:03 |
erikos |
yes, the dusplicate icon sounds good |
16:04 |
|
name it as well: duplicate? |
16:04 |
|
would be consistent with the Journal option |
16:04 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: what happens when I clone a clone? |
16:04 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: right now, you cannot |
16:05 |
|
garycmartin: I take it back... you can |
16:05 |
gonzalo |
walterbender: right now, you add the gear to the activity icon? |
16:05 |
walterbender |
you get garycmartin_garrymartin_Moon.xo |
16:06 |
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garycmartin: it keeps prepending the nick |
16:06 |
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garycmartin: yes... the gear as a badge |
16:07 |
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16:07 |
Cerlyn |
walterbender: What level of file system support are you aiming for with the nickname sanitizing? |
16:07 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: I am struggling a bit with applying the badge to some icons |
16:07 |
manuq |
walterbender: have you detected the cases where the gear does not work? |
16:07 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: I wish clone and make a journal bundle were separate items :( |
16:08 |
walterbender |
manuq: yes... but because of some weird svg formatting |
16:08 |
|
some icons use viewbox and that forces the icon to always resize, pushing my gear off the edge |
16:08 |
manuq |
walterbender: if you do a list, I can check them and try to format it better |
16:08 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: badge icons. Yea if you are scaling
I still occasionally see an icon made at 50x50 rather than 55x55, so the cog would not be in quite the correct position. |
16:09 |
manuq |
walterbender: but of course, we can't change every activity icon in ASLO |
16:09 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: it is worse than that... |
16:09 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: can you interrogate the svg for it's size and then calculate an offset? |
16:10 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: I could try... it'll be a bit ugly but I will experiment some more |
16:10 |
|
can we decide on clone vs duplicate? |
16:10 |
|
is agnostic |
16:11 |
manuq |
I think +1 to duplicate for consistency |
16:11 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: re:clone and make a journal bundle were separate items, this would make the workflow make much more sense for me. I could clone something and hack on it, then generate the journal bundle for sharing/upload. Or just hack on an existing activity I'm responsible for and then generate the journal bundle for sharing/upload. |
16:11 |
erikos |
is for duplicate as well |
16:12 |
|
garycmartin, that sounds interesting indeed |
16:12 |
gonzalo |
walterbender: clone may imply the activities will be equals at all, but if the user is modifying the activity duplicate should be better |
16:12 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: well, I don't see this as a feature for developers... if/when you want a new bundle, you can run setup.py |
16:13 |
gonzalo |
garycmartin, +1, can be a way to share one activity |
16:13 |
|
walterbender, but to users, can be a nice trick, make a bundle, send to a friend... |
16:13 |
walterbender |
bought into the argument that all activities should have a bundle |
16:14 |
|
gonzalo: but I do make the bundle already... |
16:14 |
gonzalo |
walterbender, but think in a different use case |
16:14 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: I'm just dogfooding the idea. I would likely use the feature with the above workflow. |
16:14 |
walterbender |
gonzalo: I think gary is arguing that I should *not* make the bundle when I clone (duplicate) |
16:15 |
|
garycmartin: the bundle can be overwritten by setup.py |
16:15 |
gonzalo |
walterbender, yes. but think about this: when you are cloning a activity, you have not modified it yet |
16:15 |
garycmartin |
gonzalo: +1 |
16:15 |
walterbender |
gonzalo: well, yes you have. the icon, the activity.info file |
16:16 |
gonzalo |
waltender, if you want share the activity with your modified files, you need go, edit, and later create the xo |
16:17 |
walterbender |
gonzalo: of course... but how does the pregenerated .xo file impair that workflow? |
16:17 |
gonzalo |
walterbender, but what utility have the pregenerated .xo? |
16:18 |
walterbender |
gonzalo: consistency... ~/Activities is a reflection of the bundles you have installed |
16:19 |
|
gonzalo: and it means you can revert your changes |
16:19 |
silbe |
we're running out of time. Can we try to reach consensus on this feature? |
16:20 |
gonzalo |
walterbender, in most cases, /Activities does not have any relation with the bundles in your journal |
16:20 |
walterbender |
we reached consensus on clone-> duplicate... re the bundle, I guess we need to discuss it further on the list |
16:20 |
gonzalo |
walterbender, may be we can land it how is now, separate is later is not a problem |
16:21 |
garycmartin |
+1 |
16:21 |
walterbender |
also, I will experiment some more with icon/badge placement |
16:21 |
|
next item? sugar-toolkit viewsource? |
16:22 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: do you have a screen shot of that? |
16:22 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: linked from erikos 's feature page |
16:23 |
|
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]ce-screenshot.png |
16:23 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: tahnks |
16:23 |
|
(thanks) |
16:23 |
walterbender |
actually, I had a question about view source in general |
16:24 |
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In this version of the patch, as per erikos 's excellent suggestion, I change the title to Sugar Toolkit View Source |
16:24 |
|
and back to the activity title when viewing the activity source |
16:24 |
|
but I think we should be using activity name, not activity title |
16:25 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: Random suggestion. Should we be badging both view activity source and sugar source icons with the cog? |
16:25 |
walterbender |
If I rename an instance (activity title) that has nothing to do with the code I am viewing |
16:25 |
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garycmartin: could try that... |
16:26 |
|
some activities have instance source too, e.g., Browse and Turtle Art. Those activities should use the instance title for their Title. |
16:26 |
silbe |
walterbender: +1 on using the activity name instead of the (instance) title |
16:26 |
|
(for the activity source code) |
16:26 |
walterbender |
silbe: I'll prepare a patch so we can look at it... |
16:27 |
silbe |
walterbender: thx! |
16:27 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: +1 |
16:27 |
walterbender |
3 different titles: instance data uses the Instance name; activity source the Activity name; Sugar-toolkit source the string Sugar-Toolkit view source as per the illustration |
16:28 |
silbe |
walterbender: can you add an action item for the minutes? |
16:28 |
walterbender |
silbe: yes. I'll do the previous ones too. |
16:28 |
|
I did have one issue unresolved that I mentioned in the patch notes |
16:29 |
erikos |
walterbender, ahh, we have to solve that one |
16:29 |
walterbender |
I don't know how to tell the treeview that I am displaying activity/activity.py by default |
16:29 |
erikos |
ok, maybe the reviewer has an idea |
16:30 |
|
next one |
16:30 |
|
- Journal: adding $HOME/Documents to volumestoolbar |
16:30 |
walterbender |
I've a bit ignorant about manipulating the treeview... I can get top-level nodes to display properly... |
16:30 |
erikos |
walterbender, (technical stuff...:) |
16:30 |
silbe |
erikos: only if you do the review ;) |
16:30 |
|
(I didn't have an idea) |
16:30 |
walterbender |
#action: walter will change the copy icon to duplicate icon in clone activity feature |
16:31 |
|
#action walter will change clone string to duplicate string in clone activity feature |
16:31 |
erikos |
#action walter to rename 'clone' to 'duplicate' |
16:31 |
|
heh |
16:31 |
walterbender |
#action walter will experiment with adding badges to icons in view source |
16:31 |
erikos |
walterbender, do you have a screenshot of that one as well? |
16:32 |
|
walterbender, the $HOME/Documents |
16:32 |
walterbender |
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]ts-screenshot.png |
16:32 |
|
#action: walter will use activity name for activity title in view source |
16:32 |
erikos |
forgot to reload th e page |
16:33 |
walterbender |
#action: walter will keep pounding away at treeview code to properly initialize the position in the tree |
16:33 |
erikos |
the icon has been agreed on afaik? garycmartin, manuq ? |
16:33 |
walterbender |
erikos: it is gary's redesign of my original icon |
16:33 |
erikos |
walterbender, great ;p |
16:34 |
|
any other comments here? |
16:34 |
walterbender |
#action gonzalo will explore fading from a gray icon instead of white in the new launcher |
16:35 |
erikos |
5 |
16:35 |
|
4 |
16:35 |
garycmartin |
erikos: so will we add folders to non Journal fs views ;-b |
16:35 |
erikos |
3 |
16:35 |
silbe |
and investigate how to fix the contrast issues :) |
16:35 |
walterbender |
#action gonzalo will explore the constrast issue in the new launcher/pulser |
16:36 |
erikos |
garycmartin, any issues with this? (I am not fully convinced about our presentation of general file systems in the Journal) |
16:36 |
walterbender |
#action gonzalo will look into using the light gray icon color during homeview search to indicate non-matching activities |
16:36 |
gonzalo |
#gonzalo will try doing filter in nb view with alpha |
16:36 |
walterbender |
thinks he caught up with the backlog |
16:36 |
erikos |
gonzalo, you need to use #action for the minutes generation |
16:36 |
gonzalo |
#action gonzalo will try doing filter in nb view with alpha |
16:37 |
erikos |
great! |
16:37 |
garycmartin |
erikos: +1 to the current documents view design from me (fs views can be in another cycle) |
16:37 |
erikos |
garycmartin, you mean to have a better presenttaion of the hierarchical file system? |
16:37 |
walterbender |
thinks the tagging patches will influence how we approach this problem |
16:37 |
silbe |
gonzalo: IIRC only the chair can add action items :-/ |
16:38 |
walterbender |
#action gonzalo will try doing filter in nb view with alpha |
16:38 |
gonzalo |
silbe, ops :/ |
16:39 |
walterbender |
shall we move on to the wireless discussion? |
16:39 |
garycmartin |
erikos: "better presenttaion of the hierarchical file" yes. but just how we do that is for another topic (e.g. just show hierarchical folders, or try to be journal like with some tag/path scheme). |
16:39 |
silbe |
walterbender: +1, but let's record consensus on the Documents folder feature |
16:40 |
walterbender |
+1 from me :P |
16:40 |
erikos |
garycmartin, yes, great |
16:40 |
|
next one |
16:40 |
|
- Wireless network Frame device: Add text for disconnected state |
16:40 |
manuq |
+1. it seems important to land a rapid solution, and we can improve later, maybe with tags |
16:41 |
erikos |
do people agree on this? |
16:41 |
gonzalo |
erikos, yes, have sense |
16:41 |
silbe |
erikos: +1 |
16:41 |
garycmartin |
erikos: it's better than a blank palette! ;) |
16:41 |
walterbender |
yes... but I still hate the smiley computer :P |
16:41 |
erikos |
I actually don't think we see this often as we connect automatically to an adhoc network |
16:41 |
|
but ok, to have it |
16:42 |
|
walterbender, please stay on topic :) |
16:42 |
|
- Add support for removing connections / forgetting network credentials |
16:42 |
|
silbe, this is in addition to the option in the control panel? |
16:42 |
silbe |
is the general silence agreement to my proposal? :) |
16:42 |
erikos |
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]gar-ap-forget.png |
16:43 |
walterbender |
+1 |
16:43 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: "the smiley computer" you need to buy a Mac ;-) |
16:43 |
silbe |
(re. adding the text) |
16:43 |
erikos |
silbe, the text is ok |
16:44 |
garycmartin |
+1 |
16:44 |
manuq |
+1 |
16:44 |
walterbender |
cool... we made it through the features list!!! |
16:44 |
gonzalo |
+1 |
16:44 |
garycmartin |
silbe: I take it the current CP forget all button is still the same? |
16:45 |
silbe |
garycmartin: yup, that's unchanged. |
16:46 |
erikos |
maybe the text should then be: Discard this network |
16:46 |
|
because the text in the CP is: |
16:46 |
|
Discard network history |
16:47 |
|
or 'Discard this favorite network' |
16:47 |
garycmartin |
Discard this favourite network |
16:47 |
silbe |
erikos: but we don't discard the network, just the settings. |
16:47 |
erikos |
those british |
16:47 |
silbe |
erikos: where did you go to school? No Oxford english? :-P |
16:48 |
erikos |
garycmartin, so you prefer as well 'Discard' over 'Forget'? |
16:48 |
silbe |
erikos: that's also the reason I went with "Forget" rather than "Remove": we don't want the user to think it affects anyone else in any way, just themselves. |
16:48 |
gonzalo |
what is the idea here? reset the configuration? |
16:49 |
erikos |
the first user is confused ;p |
16:49 |
silbe |
gonzalo: removing the NetworkManager connection (settings) for this network |
16:50 |
|
gonzalo: if you try connecting again and it's a secured network, you'll be asked for credentials, like the first time you connected to this network. |
16:50 |
gonzalo |
silbe, then "Remove connection settings" |
16:50 |
garycmartin |
erikos: I so prefer consistency where ever we can manage it ;-) I guess the questing could also be is the original CP text "Discard network history" the right choice vs "Forget network history". |
16:50 |
erikos |
hmm |
16:51 |
silbe |
gonzalo: is that easy to understand for an elementary school child? /me is not sure |
16:51 |
erikos |
garycmartin, you are a native speaker, maybe you can make a suggestion |
16:52 |
garycmartin |
+1 for forget. |
16:52 |
erikos |
garycmartin, (if needed for the CP and the palette) |
16:52 |
walterbender |
+1 for forget from this native speaker too (from the other side of the Pond) |
16:52 |
garycmartin |
The CP network module needs work, so we can change the string there another time. |
16:53 |
erikos |
walterbender, :) |
16:54 |
walterbender |
silbe: if we are done with this topic, there was a question that we neglected to discuss from Cerlyn earlier |
16:54 |
|
silbe: do I need to do anything to a nick to ensure that the filename I generate is valid? |
16:54 |
Cerlyn |
walterbender: Also are you presuming a Unicode-supporting filesystem, or something more restrictive than that |
16:54 |
silbe |
nice. FWIW, I can change the CP text as well. How about "Forget favorite networks"? |
16:55 |
|
walterbender: that's a technical question => we can discuss it in #sugar later |
16:55 |
erikos |
so: 'Forget this favourite network' is it? |
16:55 |
walterbender |
silbe: +1 to forgetting about it :P |
16:56 |
erikos |
silbe, gary is right, if we can avoid a string change lets postpone |
16:56 |
|
silbe, (there are too many non-active translation teams) |
16:57 |
walterbender |
sometimes wishes there was a way to detect if a string had a translation and if not to revert to something else... |
16:57 |
silbe |
erikos: hmm. we should fix that since it will affect any new string we introduce, but I don't care about this particular string enough to argue any more about it. |
16:58 |
|
walterbender: there is and it even works :-P |
16:58 |
walterbender |
anything else to discuss on the features topic? |
16:59 |
silbe |
walterbender: you can set any number of languages in the CP and it'll use the string from the first one that has it. en_US can only be the last language since, by definition, we always have an en_US "translation". |
16:59 |
walterbender |
silbe: let's discuss on #sugar... I had something different in mind |
17:00 |
silbe |
walterbender: ok |
17:00 |
manuq |
ok! anything else? |
17:00 |
walterbender |
if I could bug garycmartin for a moment before we end... |
17:00 |
silbe |
have we recorded agreements on everything that's ready to land? |
17:00 |
erikos |
I think we have agreement, yes |
17:00 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: bug away! |
17:00 |
erikos |
was very productive, i think |
17:01 |
walterbender |
silbe: I guess I didn't use the #agreed tag.... will do |
17:01 |
manuq |
erikos: good! |
17:01 |
|
sorry I have to leave now |
17:01 |
garycmartin |
Will we move onto toolbars or are we time maxed out? |
17:01 |
silbe |
walterbender: thx, that's what I meant. It makes it easier to find past decision if one only needs to scan the minutes rather than read the full logs. |
17:02 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: just wanted to know if you had a chance to look over the various icon options manuq, gonzalo and I have been working on |
17:02 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: yep, all read through. |
17:02 |
manuq |
garycmartin: yes, your review is very welcome |
17:02 |
garycmartin |
Some quick points then.... |
17:03 |
|
walterbender: All your TA turtle toolbar icons have the shell pattern as outlines. Should be filled with no or minimal strokes to be more clear (less strobe inducing) and match the activity icon? |
17:03 |
walterbender |
#topic toolbars |
17:03 |
|
garycmartin: OK. easy enough to do |
17:03 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: the filled pattern should show a little better at those small scales. |
17:04 |
walterbender |
#action walter to fill the small instances of the turtle shell icons |
17:04 |
manuq |
I'm sorry I have to go |
17:04 |
|
will read the logs later |
17:04 |
|
bye |
17:04 |
garycmartin |
manuq: bye! |
17:04 |
|
manuq has quit IRC |
17:04 |
walterbender |
thanks for joining us marcopg |
17:05 |
|
oops autocomplete got me as manuq left |
17:05 |
garycmartin |
:) |
17:05 |
|
walterbender: Curved arrows vs arrows with right angle bends, was a decision made. |
17:05 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: I think the right angle reads much more clearly at that scale |
17:05 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: Arrow placement top left vs. bottom right, was a decision made? |
17:06 |
gonzalo |
garycmartin, ohh, what was the decision? |
17:06 |
walterbender |
but I don't think a formal decision was made |
17:07 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: which of the (many) collection boxes was the one selected (or favourite)? |
17:07 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: I argued that we wanted some flexibility there depending upon the orientation of the auxiliary graphic (horizontal -- mimetype image vs vertical -- mimetype HTML) |
17:07 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: flexibility, yes saw that. I wanted to suggest that we could also con side a clockwise flow metaphor. |
17:08 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: I think we settled on manuq' s box in the end: inspired by gonzalo's box, but more narrow |
17:08 |
gonzalo |
walterbender, can you point to one example? |
17:09 |
|
maybe this one http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:Jam-presets.png ? |
17:09 |
|
walterbender ^ |
17:09 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: so that objects coming out of a collection had an arrow top left vs. back in again for the Journal/FS case with an arrow bottom right. |
17:09 |
walterbender |
gonzalo: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/T[…]m/Toolbar_Catalog |
17:09 |
|
examples of each there... |
17:10 |
|
garycmartin: I like that idea, actually |
17:10 |
garycmartin |
(the clockwise metaphor will help if you have a row of otherwise similar icons) |
17:10 |
gonzalo |
garycmartin, yes |
17:10 |
walterbender |
agreed? |
17:11 |
|
I can mock it up in TA as a reference |
17:11 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: so it it the collection box in your visual match example? |
17:11 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: yes |
17:12 |
|
garycmartin: and in the TamTamJam and SynthLab examples |
17:12 |
|
garycmartin: and in Abacus and Icanread |
17:12 |
gonzalo |
walterbender, this can be a good example too http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]save-load-alt.png |
17:13 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: +1 if we can nudge the box up a little, or bring it up by making is vertically shorter a small amount. It is current a little too close to the disclosure down widget (and it will almost always have one of those below it). |
17:13 |
walterbender |
gonzalo: exactly. that will be the one I clean up for clockwise |
17:16 |
|
garycmartin: any other suggestions |
17:16 |
garycmartin |
gonzalo: walterbender: Memorize, what about adding the "blank new game
" option inside the combo box? |
17:17 |
walterbender |
where are the new Memorize toolbars? |
17:17 |
gonzalo |
garycmartin, but what means when you are in play mode? |
17:17 |
|
walterbender, i did not send them yet |
17:18 |
walterbender |
meanwhile... |
17:18 |
|
#action: walter to convert TA icons to use garycmartin clockwise scheme |
17:18 |
gonzalo |
walterbender, i will do new screenshots based in the last meeting |
17:18 |
garycmartin |
gonzalo: if you're playing a game and select "blank new game
" from the combo, you would get a blank game switched to edit mode. |
17:19 |
gonzalo |
garycmartin, ok, is good |
17:20 |
garycmartin |
gonzalo: Did you guys resolve the game naming issue? Will we drop the explicit load/save process? |
17:20 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: gonzalo was going to make some mockups, but I confidence in his new scheme |
17:21 |
gonzalo |
garycmartin, we talked about adding to the combo the games in the journal |
17:21 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: the combo box will select the game, autoloaded from the journal |
17:21 |
|
lucian has quit IRC |
17:21 |
|
lucian <lucian!~lucian 78-86-217-168.zone2.bethere.co.uk> has joined #sugar-meeting |
17:21 |
gonzalo |
garycmartin, and we can implement a autosave or a explicit save button |
17:22 |
garycmartin |
OK, cool. Will that be quick if there are 1000s+ items in the Journal? |
17:22 |
gonzalo |
garycmartin: but the game name is not the same than the activityname |
17:22 |
|
garycmartin: good, question, but i will try |
17:23 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: For the import/export icons the open Journal does look better to me. |
17:23 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: I agree |
17:24 |
|
garycmartin: I was thinking about an open folder for the TA toolbar |
17:24 |
|
garycmartin: on http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]save-load-alt.png |
17:25 |
|
garycmartin: did I discuss with you or just gonzalo the idea of letting activities mount their example folders to the volumestoolbar in the Journal when they launch? |
17:26 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: for the import/export to filesystem/folder I was thinking perhaps the simpler folder shape I reworked for your home/documents patch (more for consistency). But not a big deal I guess. Hopefully in time the Object Chooser will be able to cover this use case. |
17:26 |
gonzalo |
garycmartin, walterbender, i need finish now, do you need anything from my part? |
17:27 |
walterbender |
gonzalo: I think we are good... I'll finish up with the remaining #agreeds for the minutes |
17:27 |
|
garycmartin: I'll play with the folder icon while I am working on TA artwork |
17:27 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: "activities mount their example folders to the volumestoolbar" I think that must have been gonzalo. Interesting idea though might be a little hidden from the user as is. |
17:28 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: well, the activity might be able to even select that folder by default in the Chooser... |
17:28 |
gonzalo |
garycmartin, can be a more consistent view to load the examples |
17:28 |
garycmartin |
gonzalo: anything you need from me? |
17:28 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: I'll experiment with it, but it won't make the feature list for this go-around :P |
17:29 |
gonzalo |
garycmartin, no, i think we are ok, thanks bye checking the pot files! |
17:29 |
walterbender |
we should wrap up but it has been a productive meeting... |
17:29 |
|
thanks |
17:29 |
gonzalo |
bye ! |
17:29 |
garycmartin |
Thanks all! |
17:29 |
|
Great meeting. |
17:30 |
silbe |
+1 |
17:30 |
walterbender |
#agreed accept Filter in Home View (with caveat of sorting out the alpha vs gray issue) |
17:31 |
|
#agreed accept Startup animation feature (with expectation that we'll eventually fade to gray instead of white) |
17:31 |
|
#agreed accept the Add 'clone' to view source submenu (with change from clone to duplicate) |
17:32 |
|
#agreed accept the Add view source for sugar-toolkit |
17:32 |
|
#agreed accept the Journal: adding $HOME/Documents feature |
17:32 |
|
#agreed accept the Wireless network Frame device: Add text for disconnected state feature |
17:33 |
|
#agreed accept the Add support for removing connections / forgetting network credentials feature |
17:33 |
|
Anything I missed? |
17:33 |
cjl |
walterbender: Phrasing of forget network? |
17:34 |
erikos |
cjl, no, that was right already |
17:34 |
cjl |
ok, as a native speaker from the NJ/NY area, I suppose "fuggedaboutit" is out of the question? :-) |
17:34 |
walterbender |
sorry all the #agreeds weren't in line... |
17:35 |
|
erikos: what is the name of the duplicate icon? |
17:36 |
erikos |
walterbender, edit-duplicate |
17:36 |
walterbender |
erikos: thanks. |
17:36 |
erikos |
walterbender, let me see if I pushed that already, actually... |
17:36 |
silbe |
cjl: add a new dialect on Pootle ;) |
17:36 |
walterbender |
erikos: I'll mention the dependency in the revised patch |
17:36 |
erikos |
walterbender, let me push it |
17:36 |
cjl |
erikos we should touch base on POT refreshes if there are string changes / additions. I'm getting all Fructose POTs refreshed right now. |
17:37 |
erikos |
cjl, ok, I can tell you the additions/changes when we landed the stuff |
17:37 |
cjl |
great |
17:37 |
erikos |
cjl, release is on wednesday |
17:38 |
cjl |
Calculate was the last one, gary gave me the update of the POT in git today. |
17:39 |
walterbender |
I am gunna end the design team meeting... |
17:39 |
|
3 |
17:41 |
silbe |
2 |
17:41 |
walterbender |
1 |
17:41 |
|
#endmeeting |
17:41 |
meeting |
Meeting ended Mon Aug 15 17:41:34 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
17:41 |
|
Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-15T15:03:10.html |
17:41 |
|
Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-08-15T15:03:10 |