| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 14:31 |
meeting |
Meeting started Sat Jul 9 14:31:36 2011 UTC. The chair is silbe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 14:31 |
|
Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting |
| 14:32 |
silbe |
#topic Backup / Restore activities vs. backup / restore features in Dextrose |
| 14:32 |
|
#info The Backup / Restore activities and the backup / restore feature in Dextrose use different, incompatible file formats. |
| 14:33 |
|
#action m_anish check how they backuped and restored the journal when moving from 0.84 to dx2 in py |
| 14:33 |
m_anish |
tch, any idea how they migrated journal/datastores from 0.84 to dx2? |
| 14:33 |
|
silbe, :) |
| 14:33 |
silbe |
m_anish: always a pleasure to move things from my plate to yours ;) |
| 14:34 |
m_anish |
silbe, haha, :) |
| 14:34 |
tch |
m_anish: I think they used the xs backup script and then restored it using dx gui |
| 14:36 |
dirakx |
around. |
| 14:38 |
silbe |
tch, m_anish: can you check that and follow up to yama's mail (Message-ID: <BANLkTikUqM8ZteLo4gmdeTsX_kUcWKKNog mail.gmail.com>), please? |
| 14:38 |
|
yama: anything else re. backup / restore you'd like to discuss today? |
| 14:39 |
m_anish |
silbe, ack |
| 14:39 |
yama |
silbe: dfarning and I came to a basic agreement of how AC is to work with OLPCAU. Not sure if he's informed you all yet. |
| 14:39 |
|
if not, maybe I should wait until he does |
| 14:40 |
silbe |
yama: I not sure right now. There's been a lot going on lately. |
| 14:41 |
yama |
silbe: I can just summarise then |
| 14:41 |
silbe |
#topic OLPC-AU |
| 14:41 |
|
yama: go ahead |
| 14:42 |
|
yama: just remember that this is a publically logged channel |
| 14:42 |
yama |
cool |
| 14:42 |
|
the settlement we came to is that AC will work in the OLPCAU tracker for things related to OLPCAU. |
| 14:43 |
|
what that means is that AC devs should make an account at dev.laptop.org.au |
| 14:43 |
|
let me know your username and I'll set the correct permissions on your account |
| 14:43 |
|
so far we've been working well with dirakx, for example |
| 14:43 |
dirakx |
yama: +1. |
| 14:43 |
silbe |
yama: silbe |
| 14:44 |
yama |
silbe: you're already taken care of :) |
| 14:44 |
m_anish |
yama, m_anish |
| 14:44 |
|
:) |
| 14:44 |
silbe |
yama: nice, thx. |
| 14:44 |
icarito |
#link http://dev.laptop.org.au/ |
| 14:45 |
m_anish |
yama, or rather, just anish (if that's available), sorry :) |
| 14:45 |
yama |
m_anish: it's available. Can you please register yourself and let me know? |
| 14:46 |
silbe |
#action all AC devs to create account on https://dev.laptop.org.au/account/register and send user name to yama (for permissions). |
| 14:46 |
yama |
I might also be contacting some of you guys directly about our work. I'd appreciate a speedy reply. |
| 14:47 |
silbe |
yama: how would you define "speedy" in this context? |
| 14:47 |
yama |
I mentioned last meeting that I'll be on leave from Aug to Oct. That means I really need the AC-OLPCAU collaboration to be productive and sustainable before the end of this month. |
| 14:48 |
|
On our side we've got jvonau, who will be working with you guys |
| 14:49 |
m_anish |
yama, fyi, i created an account with username:anish |
| 14:50 |
yama |
m_anish: great, I've fixed it for you |
| 14:50 |
silbe |
yama: we'll certainly give our best. Is there anything in particular you're worrying about? Requiring special care or taking a lot of time? |
| 14:51 |
icarito |
yama: I just registered, my nick is icarito |
| 14:52 |
dirakx |
yama: icarito is going to work in some of the activities issues. |
| 14:52 |
yama |
silbe: not really right now. We're rushing to get OS 10.1.3-au3 complete before the school holidays end on the 25th. dirakx has been helping. I want this to be solid to last us to the end of the year. Then we can focus on DX. |
| 14:52 |
silbe |
yama: ok. dirakx: do you need any help with that work? |
| 14:53 |
yama |
icarito: I don't see you on there? |
| 14:53 |
dirakx |
silbe: I'd appreciate some help on sugar-core stuff that you guys could know better than I. |
| 14:53 |
icarito |
yama: i just now activated the account (from the automated email) |
| 14:54 |
m_anish |
dirakx, yea, i've been offline lately, but free to help now |
| 14:54 |
yama |
icarito: done |
| 14:54 |
dirakx |
m_anish: thanks! :) |
| 14:55 |
icarito |
yama: are you targeting new activities to work on both 10.1.3 and dextrose or will you have upgraded by that time? |
| 14:56 |
yama |
icarito: I expect it'll take a while to completely migrate. We rely on teachers to perform the flashing, and teachers are very time-poor. |
| 14:56 |
silbe |
dirakx: no problem. Let's discuss this in detail after the meeting. |
| 14:56 |
dirakx |
silbe: sure. |
| 14:56 |
yama |
We need the AU version of DX12 out by January (as I've mentioned in other meetings), because teachers have more time at the start of the school year. |
| 14:57 |
|
if we miss the boat on that one, it'll be much harder to get DX12 out there |
| 14:58 |
m_anish |
yama, yep, i think we'd need to have a meeting to set the broad roadmap for dx12 platform |
| 14:58 |
dirakx |
icarito: some of the new activities (if not all) should be ready for that time. |
| 14:58 |
yama |
would love to have a voice chat with some of the main people |
| 14:58 |
|
skype or similar |
| 14:58 |
silbe |
yama: we'll make sure DX12(-AU) will be ready. Worst case it will lack some features. |
| 14:58 |
yama |
main priorities are QA and collaboration |
| 14:59 |
|
I prefer quality over quantity. A half-working feature is not worth including. |
| 14:59 |
silbe |
collaboration is one of my main worries right now. Fortunately we have several months to continue fixing it... |
| 14:59 |
|
yama: +1 |
| 15:00 |
yama |
Australian schools have money to consider iPads and the like. We're competing with slick, professional products. |
| 15:00 |
icarito |
we are slick and professional :-P |
| 15:00 |
silbe |
icarito: money shark? ;) |
| 15:01 |
yama |
I think I linked to this last time: https://dev.laptop.org.au/proj[…]es?set_filter=1&f[]=status_id&op[status_id]=o&v[status_id][]=1&f[]=tracker_id&op[tracker_id]=%3D&v[tracker_id][]=6&f[]=fixed_version_id&op[fixed_version_id]=%3D&v[fixed_version_id][]=23&f[]=&c[]=project&c[]=tracker&c[]=status&c[]=priority&c[]=subject&c[]=assigned_to&c[]=updated_on&c[]=cf_3&group_by= |
| 15:01 |
silbe |
to get serious, is there anything left to discuss for this topic? |
| 15:01 |
m_anish |
yama, ok, dirakx up for a skype this week? |
| 15:01 |
yama |
it's our list of priorities for DX12 |
| 15:01 |
dirakx |
m_anish: ok for me. |
| 15:01 |
m_anish |
#link https://dev.laptop.org.au/proj[…]es?set_filter=1&f[]=status_id&op[status_id]=o&v[status_id][]=1&f[]=tracker_id&op[tracker_id]=%3D&v[tracker_id][]=6&f[]=fixed_version_id&op[fixed_version_id]=%3D&v[fixed_version_id][]=23&f[]=&c[]=project&c[]=tracker&c[]=status&c[]=priority&c[]=subject&c[]=assigned_to&c[]=updated_on&c[]=cf_3&group_by= |
| 15:02 |
silbe |
#link OLPC-AU priorities list: https://dev.laptop.org.au/proj[…]es?set_filter=1&f[]=status_id&op[status_id]=o&v[status_id][]=1&f[]=tracker_id&op[tracker_id]=%3D&v[tracker_id][]=6&f[]=fixed_version_id&op[fixed_version_id]=%3D&v[fixed_version_id][]=23&f[]=&c[]=project&c[]=tracker&c[]=status&c[]=priority&c[]=subject&c[]=assigned_to&c[]=updated_on&c[]=cf_3&group_by= |
| 15:02 |
|
ah, too slow. |
| 15:02 |
yama |
m_anish: I have a meeting with dirakx on Tues at 11am my time. I think we can turn that into a group discussion. |
| 15:02 |
dirakx |
yama: agree |
| 15:02 |
m_anish |
yama, +! |
| 15:02 |
|
yama, what's ur TZ w.r.t UTC |
| 15:03 |
yama |
m_anish: I'm UTC+10 |
| 15:03 |
|
Whom should I send the invitations to? |
| 15:04 |
icarito |
if new activities is part of the agenda maybe me |
| 15:04 |
|
activity bugs don't require a meeting to fix tho |
| 15:05 |
|
still great to meet you on voice |
| 15:05 |
m_anish |
yama, i'll be there at the meeting |
| 15:05 |
yama |
maybe a unified strategy meeting to kick-off, or would that be too messy? |
| 15:05 |
silbe |
yama: if I got the calculation right, that would be 01:00 UTC and 03:00 CEST, so I'm afraid you can count me out. I'm having trouble with phone calls anyway; combine that with foreign language and middle of the night... |
| 15:05 |
yama |
silbe: yes, 01:00 UTC |
| 15:06 |
silbe |
(trouble because of being (slightly) hearing impaired) |
| 15:06 |
icarito |
count me in on strategy |
| 15:06 |
yama |
silbe: understandable. International meetings are hard to organise |
| 15:07 |
silbe |
yama: I'm always amazed at how well it works most of the time even though people are spread over three continents... |
| 15:08 |
yama |
I've got dirakx, m_anish, icarito so far. Anyone else? |
| 15:08 |
dirakx |
I think no one else. ;). |
| 15:09 |
yama |
ok, invitation sent |
| 15:09 |
silbe |
#info voice conference with OLPC-AU on 2011-07-12 01:00 UTC. Participants: dirakx, icarito, m_anish, yama. |
| 15:10 |
yama |
if people pm me their skype id, I can connect with them |
| 15:10 |
m_anish |
silbe, deme, you beat me to it :P |
| 15:10 |
yama |
think I just need icarito |
| 15:10 |
m_anish |
yama, i think i already have you, but not dirakx icarito |
| 15:11 |
icarito |
yama: my skype contact is "sebatustra" |
| 15:11 |
|
:-) |
| 15:11 |
dirakx |
m_anish: my contact is dirakx |
| 15:11 |
silbe |
ok, let's move on to the next topic. |
| 15:11 |
|
#topic Report from m_anish |
| 15:12 |
m_anish |
silbe, this is gonna be very short :) |
| 15:12 |
silbe |
m_anish: to get back in sync, what have you been working on and what are you planning to do next week? |
| 15:12 |
|
m_anish: perfect |
| 15:13 |
m_anish |
I've been offline mostly for this week due to a family issue :/ |
| 15:13 |
|
but I'll be working from this week on, so on my agenda are... |
| 15:14 |
|
(1) following up with yama, dirakx and figuring out roadmap and workflows for dx12 |
| 15:14 |
|
(2) meeting with silbe and hopefully erikos to figure out upstreaming our patches |
| 15:15 |
|
(3) setting up/refreshing dx12/todo pages on the wiki |
| 15:16 |
|
since dx12 platform devel is mostly being done by silbe right now, i'll support him where he needs help |
| 15:17 |
|
silbe, <EOT> :P |
| 15:17 |
silbe |
m_anish: sounds good. ok, next topic: |
| 15:17 |
|
#topic Report from tch |
| 15:18 |
|
tch: How's your work on multi-selection and network storage going? |
| 15:20 |
yama |
is excited about those things |
| 15:21 |
silbe |
tch: are you still with us? |
| 15:21 |
|
dogi has quit IRC |
| 15:21 |
dirakx |
seems not. |
| 15:21 |
icarito |
would would like to discuss WebSDK release and ask the team for feedback |
| 15:23 |
silbe |
ok, let's continue with icarito then |
| 15:23 |
|
#topic Report from icarito |
| 15:23 |
icarito |
so what has been under discussion for a while has resulted in this release |
| 15:24 |
|
i need to document it on the wiki this week |
| 15:24 |
|
http://people.sugarlabs.org/icarito/WebSDK-1.xo |
| 15:24 |
|
#link http://people.sugarlabs.org/icarito/WebSDK-1.xo |
| 15:25 |
|
its a bundle that embeds some python web framework stuff with webkit and some javascript libs |
| 15:25 |
|
i plan on abstract some of the details off it to make it real simple to build activities with it |
| 15:25 |
|
you can leverage any HTML knowlege for the UI of course |
| 15:25 |
silbe |
icarito: does it contain binaries (libs)? If so, what distros does it work on? |
| 15:26 |
icarito |
silbe: it contains only a webkit binary that it resorts to if it does not find one in the system |
| 15:26 |
|
this binary comes from uy builds - took it from AguBrowser :-/ |
| 15:26 |
|
i mean :-P |
| 15:26 |
silbe |
ok, so as long as webkit is installed it should work on any distro. Nice. |
| 15:27 |
icarito |
yes also one big advantage is that you could deploy activities build in this fashion as web apps |
| 15:27 |
|
to work on any browser |
| 15:27 |
|
also collaboration should be cheap to implement as we can tunnel the http (not yet done) |
| 15:28 |
|
also I built a small but cool IDE on top of it |
| 15:28 |
|
I'm calling it Webpy |
| 15:28 |
|
:-) |
| 15:28 |
|
so the bundle is a self-editable hello world |
| 15:28 |
yama |
+1 for all of this |
| 15:29 |
dirakx |
curiously mozilla is working on webapps activities concept. :). |
| 15:29 |
icarito |
later on i can add a "deploy" option to deploy as dist_xo |
| 15:29 |
|
currently there are some limitations but I plan on iron them out as I use it |
| 15:30 |
|
latest changes were done all within the embedded IDE |
| 15:30 |
silbe |
icarito: how does this relate to lucian's SSB / Webified work? |
| 15:31 |
icarito |
silbe: I looked at webified, but it seems to only produce bundles as specialized browse activity that points to a website |
| 15:31 |
|
silbe: websdk manages the backend as well |
| 15:31 |
|
that is the server side runs on the XO laptop |
| 15:31 |
silbe |
icarito: interesting (using the embedded IDE). Sounds like I should give it a try some time (as much as I dislike anything browser related :) ). |
| 15:31 |
icarito |
this is how integration with journal and collaboration can be achieved |
| 15:32 |
silbe |
icarito: ok, thanks for the explanation. |
| 15:32 |
icarito |
silbe: the strategy is that there are many more professional web developers than sugar developers so I hope this excites the activity scenario a bit |
| 15:32 |
silbe |
icarito: is there anything in particular you'd like to get feedback on or help with? |
| 15:33 |
|
icarito: I've heard that song before (Karma)... |
| 15:33 |
icarito |
silbe: I'm a bit confused with multiprocess/fork and IPC |
| 15:33 |
|
silbe: i need an ipc mechanism i think i'll use dbus |
| 15:34 |
|
but i'm confused as to what to use |
| 15:34 |
|
the server component runs its on multithreaded process |
| 15:34 |
silbe |
icarito: ok, we can chat a bit about that later today. Multithreading / multitasking is surprisingly tricky. |
| 15:34 |
icarito |
silbe: yes that's why I decided to plainly fork for this implementation |
| 15:34 |
|
luckily web apps are inherently multiprocess friendly |
| 15:35 |
silbe |
icarito: even fork() can be tricky, especially if it's plain fork() with execl() directly afterwards... |
| 15:35 |
icarito |
no outside execution, only one python file |
| 15:35 |
silbe |
icarito: D-Bus in particular is almost impossible to work with except in a single thread / process. |
| 15:36 |
icarito |
you can run the server component independently as well (python appservice.py 8080) and then look at the app on http://localhost:8080/ |
| 15:37 |
|
silbe: what I need it for is I'd like to have a framework wide signal/event mechanism but I realize this is a lot to ask |
| 15:37 |
silbe |
icarito: let's discuss approaches later (FTR something with a select() loop is often the easiest to work with) |
| 15:37 |
icarito |
thanks silbe |
| 15:38 |
|
so guess that's it |
| 15:38 |
|
now we can hire designers to do activities :-) lol |
| 15:38 |
|
dogi <dogi!~omenc-65-96-166-32.hsd1.ma.comcast.net> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 15:39 |
icarito |
</topic><!-- lol --> |
| 15:40 |
silbe |
#topic Report from dirakx |
| 15:41 |
dirakx |
quick: I've been working on AU activities Issues , resulting in some upstream work and other not upstreamed yet. |
| 15:41 |
|
next week should be the same thing, the idea is to fix the mayority of bugs for the next AU release. |
| 15:42 |
|
that's it ;). |
| 15:43 |
silbe |
dirakx: ok. You were requesting help with Sugar core issues earlier this meeting; we'll follow up on that after the meeting. |
| 15:43 |
dirakx |
silbe: +1. |
| 15:43 |
silbe |
#topic Report from alsroot |
| 15:43 |
alsroot |
does the same |
| 15:44 |
silbe |
ok |
| 15:44 |
|
anyone else with us? bernie, lucian? |
| 15:44 |
lucian |
is lurking |
| 15:45 |
silbe |
lucian: anything to report? |
| 15:45 |
lucian |
nope, i've been busy with rl |
| 15:45 |
silbe |
lucian: ok, fair enough :) |
| 15:45 |
|
bernie is probably only with us in thoughts |
| 15:45 |
yama |
dirakx: I can bump some of the harder activities problems to a later release (will will probably be DX12). Just let me know. |
| 15:46 |
silbe |
#topic Report from silbe |
| 15:46 |
icarito |
silbe: unlike karma, I avoid javascript where I can except in the view layer |
| 15:46 |
dirakx |
yama: yep I was just going to tell you that, I'll comment on the bugs that would be nice to push to a later release. |
| 15:46 |
|
yama: thanks. |
| 15:47 |
silbe |
I've been going through the Dextrose 2 patches lately and posted a list of the DX2+3 patches on dextrose@ with some additional information (status, related work). |
| 15:49 |
|
The OLPC microformat updater has been ported to Sugar 0.92 and cleaned up quite a bit, taking care of several failure scenarios like disk full and connection loss. Because of that, we'll have to re-test it thoroughly; I'd appreciate help with that. m_anish perhaps? |
| 15:50 |
m_anish |
silbe, okay, I'd just need to flash my xo1.5 but its been giving problems lately (thermal shutdown :/) , but I'll figure a way around and let you know |
| 15:50 |
|
cjl is now known as cjl_afk |
| 15:50 |
m_anish |
silbe, is there a dx3/12 repo with updated rpms or are these just patches for now? |
| 15:51 |
silbe |
Last week (> 7 days ago) I've been working on WebDAV interoperation, both exporting the data store (git://git.silbe.org/journal2webdav) and browsing WebDAV collections from within the Journal (GUI). |
| 15:54 |
|
WebDAV is looking rather promising, it can even store Sugar metadata natively. Journal2webdav is a rather limited, but working prototype. I didn't get as far with the Journal integration; apart from needing more work there's the issue of gio / gvfs not exposing a sufficiently capable interface to WebDAV properties. |
| 15:54 |
dirakx |
nice. |
| 15:55 |
silbe |
I've started combining datastore-fuse and journal2webdav code, but no progress there this week. |
| 15:55 |
|
m_anish: you might want to check whether the heat spreader is seated properly. I've never had an XO-1.5 shutdown due to thermal issues (though maybe throttled). |
| 15:56 |
|
dogi has quit IRC |
| 15:56 |
silbe |
m_anish: Check out the dextrose-3 branch in the dextrose repo for the sources, including the URLs to the yum repository. |
| 15:56 |
m_anish |
silbe, I checked and it is :/ the xo1.5 is a engineering piece not a production one, maybe there was a known issue back then |
| 15:56 |
yama |
silbe, m_anish: yes, possibly a heat spreader issue. I've fixed some XOs by reseating the spreader. |
| 15:56 |
|
icarito has quit IRC |
| 15:57 |
m_anish |
s/is/isn't/ |
| 15:57 |
silbe |
m_anish: DX3 won't contain the cleaned-up updater, though, it's too late in the cycle for that. |
| 15:57 |
m_anish |
yama, i put some heat conducting grease in there as well, but didn't help |
| 15:57 |
|
silbe, ok |
| 15:57 |
silbe |
m_anish: too bad the XOs are not IP68, otherwise you could do "water cooling" in the swimming pool. ;) |
| 15:58 |
|
icarito <icarito!~urk190.157.137.22> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 15:58 |
yama |
m_anish: there's a known issue that made XOs wake up while the lid was closed. This has killed many of our XOs. |
| 15:58 |
m_anish |
silbe, lol |
| 15:58 |
yama |
m_anish: have you tried running the lid switches test in firmware? |
| 15:58 |
m_anish |
yama, ok, but it happens in a few mins everytime from a cold start |
| 15:58 |
icarito |
silbe: sugar just failed to warn me my battery ran out |
| 15:58 |
silbe |
m_anish: that's definitely odd. |
| 15:58 |
icarito |
its cool to be a user |
| 15:59 |
silbe |
icarito: Sugar doesn't warn you about that. The hardware should warn you and powerd should shut the system down. |
| 15:59 |
yama |
m_anish: I have seen this happen a lot before. You might have permanent hardware damage. |
| 16:00 |
icarito |
silbe: the hardware that I expect to warn me is the screen |
| 16:01 |
|
icarito has quit IRC |
| 16:01 |
silbe |
icarito: then the software design doesn't meet your expectations. Feel free to add this topic to the Design Team agenda; especially on non-XOs it would be a good idea. |
| 16:01 |
|
does anyone have another topic? |
| 16:02 |
dirakx |
afk will be back in 15 minutes. |
| 16:02 |
|
icarito <icarito!~urk190.157.137.22> has joined #sugar-meeting |
| 16:02 |
silbe |
icarito: then the software design doesn't meet your expectations. Feel free to add this topic to the Design Team agenda; especially on non-XOs it would be a good idea. |
| 16:02 |
|
icarito: do you have any other topic to discuss? |
| 16:02 |
icarito |
nope |
| 16:03 |
|
thanks for everything |
| 16:04 |
yama |
I'd like to point to our list of issues that we'd like to have fixed for DX12: https://dev.laptop.org.au/proj[…]es?set_filter=1&f[]=fixed_version_id&op[fixed_version_id]=%3D&v[fixed_version_id][]=23&f[]=&c[]=project&c[]=tracker&c[]=status&c[]=priority&c[]=subject&c[]=assigned_to&c[]=updated_on&c[]=cf_3&group_by= |
| 16:04 |
|
the objectives I linked to before are the overriding goals, but these are the individual tasks |
| 16:04 |
silbe |
#topic OLPC-AU bugs to be fixed within DX-12 time line |
| 16:05 |
|
#link https://dev.laptop.org.au/proj[…]es?set_filter=1&f[]=fixed_version_id&op[fixed_version_id]=%3D&v[fixed_version_id][]=23&f[]=&c[]=project&c[]=tracker&c[]=status&c[]=priority&c[]=subject&c[]=assigned_to&c[]=updated_on&c[]=cf_3&group_by= |
| 16:05 |
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wonders whether there's a shorter URL for the same query... |
| 16:06 |
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let's finish then... |
| 16:06 |
yama |
the last version of redmine gave nicer urls |
| 16:06 |
silbe |
3 |
| 16:07 |
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2 |
| 16:07 |
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1 |
| 16:07 |
|
#endmeeting |
| 16:07 |
meeting |
Meeting ended Sat Jul 9 16:07:38 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 16:07 |
|
Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-09T14:31:36.html |
| 16:07 |
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Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-07-09T14:31:36 |