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#sugar-meeting meeting, 2011-06-18 14:25:20

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14:25 meeting Meeting started Sat Jun 18 14:25:20 2011 UTC. The chair is icarito. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:25 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
14:25 cjl nods
14:25 icarito #topic agenda #link http://fpaste.org/Bq7o/
14:26 alsroot: second topic on list is server project
14:26 i'm excited to have read the discussions
14:26 alsroot #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/The_Server/1/Todo
14:26 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/The_Server/1/Roadmap
14:26 icarito #topic sugar server project
14:27 alsroot ^^ this is schedule for Sugar Server v1.0 release
14:27 silbe tunes in; sorry for the delay.
14:27 icarito reading
14:27 alsroot Sugar Server is entirely community project, ie, not product
14:28 the next 3months after releasing Sugar Sever 1.0, I'm planing to work on a product - Dextrose Server which will be based on Sugar Server
14:28 icarito interesting distinction
14:28 alsroot ..and on Sugar Server 1.1 that should be ready for deployment
14:29 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/T[…]rver/Architecture
14:29 yama alsroot: as mentioned on the lists, we (OLPCAU) are interested in a simple collaboration server that we can distribute as an appliance. How far do you think Sugar Server is off from that?
14:29 alsroot ^, about Sugar Server
14:29 icarito I really like this approach of doing an upstream project and a downstream product
14:30 alsroot yama: should it look like a block boxes at schools?
14:30 yama alsroot: basically, yes
14:30 teachers shouldn't have to care about technical details
14:30 and we don't need fancy stuff like moodle
14:31 we just want a simple plug-and-play solution
14:31 alsroot yama: it should be possible to use Sugar Server's components to cook such product, ie, only jabber and registration sugar service
14:31 silbe yama: what else besides the Jabber server do you need? (ejabberd + config file should be enough for that)
14:31 alsroot yama: and after releasing Sugar Server 1.0, ie, for Dextrose Server I'm planoing to follow exactly this way (black boxes/plug-and-play solution)
14:32 yama silbe: I think that's all we really need. Very basic.
14:32 at least to begin with
14:32 alsroot: how would Sugar/Dextrose Server be installed, if it is distro agnostic?
14:32 icarito silbe, alsroot - I bought a cheap router capable of running openwrt (i.e. gnu+linux) - can this suffice for yama's need?
14:32 yama alsroot: and I am still unclear about the difference between Sugar and Dextrose servers
14:32 icarito: interesting idea
14:33 like dd-wrt type thing
14:33 icarito maybe ejabberd is in openwrt's repositories
14:33 alsroot yama: Sugar Server is just a project (ie packages to use in downstream), so your Q is only about DS, for DS I'm going to have verry straight forward solution, ie, plug-and-play
14:33 silbe icarito: I doubt your router has enough RAM for ejabberd. OpenRD (512MB) is fine, but routers tend to have O(16MB).
14:34 alsroot silbe: see jita's minin graphs about how it is for ejabberd vs. prosody, I'm planign to use prosody
14:34 yama we were thinking of using an XO as the appliance hardware
14:34 would be easier to deal with since we're already stocking it
14:34 no extra inventory
14:34 alsroot yama: btw, having Fedora-on-XO is in my plan for DS
14:35 yama alsroot: nice
14:35 alsroot *Fedora-on-XO image
14:35 yama is there an up-to-date roadmap?
14:36 is http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/The_Server/1/Roadmap still correct?
14:36 alsroot yama: only for Sugar Server, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/The_Server/1/Todo http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/The_Server/1/Roadmap
14:36 yama: ie, DS work will start in 2months
14:36 yama ok, so DS starts after Sugar Server is ready?
14:36 silbe alsroot: where can I see the difference between ejabberd and Prosody on http://munin.sugarlabs.org/sug[…]ta.sugarlabs.org/ ?
14:37 alsroot yama: yup, since it is based on it
14:37 yama alsroot: still not clear on what's wrong with ejabberd
14:37 icarito dirakx1: u around?
14:37 alsroot silbe: http://munin.sugarlabs.org/sug[…]labs.org/cpu.html
14:37 yama still feels like we're re-architecting something that already works
14:37 cjl coughs
14:37 yama I'm happy to be proven wrong :)
14:38 alsroot yama: well, at first erlang is a beast that keep used memory as simple as possible
14:38 cjl I would note tha tyou guys want to maintain good realations with Martin Langhoff and track XS work
14:38 alsroot ..ie it is not its priority
14:38 silbe alsroot: I guess you switched from ejabberd to Prosody around week 22?
14:38 alsroot yama: the reason to use prosody instead of ejabberd, is keeping mem/cpu usage as small as possible, esp. on XO
14:39 silbe: /me thinks it is pretty clear :)
14:39 icarito alsroot: so sugar runs well with prosody? (what's prosody written in?)
14:39 yama alsroot: that means it'll work better in appliance situations?
14:39 i.e. on low-cost devices?
14:39 alsroot icarito: all jabber.sl.o client work well (keeping in mind 0.9x issue)
14:40 cjl coughs louder
14:40 alsroot yama: you, proosudy is much simple and relieble in case of setup and maitain
14:40 cjl Yuu want to take advantage of the experience gained from the XS installs tha have been done in the field.
14:41 icarito google suggests there are prosody packages for openwrt
14:41 silbe alsroot: CPU usage seems to have improved indeed, memory usage isn't as clear (the latest figures are similar to those before the switch)
14:41 yama how many clients do you think an XS-on-XO can handle reliably?
14:41 icarito it might be worth a try, maybe a router with USB so you can have thumbdrive or harddisk for swap memory and some storage
14:41 alsroot cjl: the thing is that I didn't assumptiuon (due to XS design), that it is targeting to plug-and-play solution
14:42 yama: the target for Sugar Server is up to 1K
14:42 icarito alsroot: are you targeting a particular use case first?
14:42 alsroot ie, it uses dnsmask and prosody vs. bind + dhcpd + ejjaberd
14:42 yama alsroot: with an XO as the server?
14:42 alsroot yama: yup
14:43 icarito: just black boxes to serve basic sugar related services
14:43 yama alsroot: what about using the XO's WLAN as the AP?
14:43 icarito more questions regarding server?
14:43 silbe yama: somebody has done a benchmark answering that question (plus for a few other servers), though personally I don't think they data they collected is very useful (nobody wants to wait 5 minutes for a page to load).
14:44 alsroot yama: might be, but it sounds more a task for DS not for Sugar Server
14:44 yama I would think that the XO WLAN is the main limiter
14:44 alsroot silbe: in my plan for sugar Server 1.0 to have system [intergration] tests, so we will see
14:44 yama I'd be surprised if it can reliably handle >30 XO clients
14:45 silbe yama: libertas_tf can do that in theory, but unfortunately the upstreaming efforts were aborted (for both XO-1.5 and XO-1) AFAICT.
14:45 icarito ana said in the list and I think I remember the same, the non-free drivers of libertas (firmware) does not support hostap mode
14:45 alsroot yama: in any case, the plan is having decent system intergration test infra to see how many client will bear on XO
14:45 *one
14:46 icarito is now known as icarito_
14:46 icarito_ is now known as icarito
14:46 silbe icarito: there's no free firmware for libertas; just a full-MAC (handles everything) and a soft-MAC (handles only the most basic operations) one. :-/
14:46 yama just to make you guys aware, my priority over the next 12 months is to ensure solid collaboration and connectivity
14:46 that'll guide my preferences
14:46 icarito dirakx1, tch u guys here?
14:47 silbe yama: good to know. We'll be working on the connectivity side (NM 0.9) while OLPC is currently working on the Collaboration front (Telepathy).
14:47 alsroot yama: there is server/sugaroid project within Sugar Server, it should mimic the regualr sugar user behaviour to test server infra
14:47 icarito #info yama's focus on collaboration and connectivity
14:47 alsroot yama: it will be used in sugar server system tests infra
14:48 ie, it might be simulate tp connections that might happen in the field
14:48 yama alsroot: cool, we really want solid QA
14:48 some of you may have heard of the testing framework I gave to dfarning?
14:49 icarito yama: do you plan on working collaboration in specific activities, or online?
14:49 alsroot doesn't
14:49 yama: could you resend it to public lists
14:50 icarito we have other 2 topics to cover
14:51 silbe: do you want to wait for tch or should we cover dextrose plans?
14:51 yama alsroot: haven't made it too public yet
14:51 icarito: collaboration between XOs, with and without an XS. Also Internet connectivity.
14:52 not collaboration over Internet at this point
14:52 silbe icarito: we can start if we don't have any other topics left; otherwise I'd like to wait for tch some more
14:52 alsroot cjl: btw, if system integration tests will see that ejabberd is more effective in case of mem/cpu usage (for Sugar Server targeted env, ie, up to 1K users for one XO), it should be obvious that ejabberd is the winner :)
14:52 *will show
14:53 is not sure in that though
14:54 icarito +1 for test driven dev
14:55 yama +1 on that
14:55 icarito silbe: so I will discuss activities then
14:57 alsroot, anything to add? note that it is important that we share with OLPC's XS team, this is in part the goal of having a sugar server, cjl, if I understand this
14:57 yama dirakx1 has been really helpful with our activities needs
14:57 icarito #topic activities
14:57 good to hear yama
14:58 cjl icarito: +1
14:58 yama we're tied up with XO OS stuff right now, so don't feel bad if we aren't active in XS stuff for a little while
14:58 hoping to pass a lot of the activities and XO OS stuff to you guys (AC)
14:59 one thing that seems to be missing is the ability to save preferences for an activity so that the settings persist across (un)install and upgrades
14:59 icarito yama: love to hear that - we are working on our dev process
15:00 i feel activities production has a chance to mature into being built by teams
15:00 I am working on a framework for RAD - Rapid Activities Development :-P
15:01 I sent email to the dextrose list last night
15:01 yama icarito: right now I'm focused on business and tech plans for the next financial year (current FY ends on June 30). After that we'll be more free to collaborate with you guys.
15:01 icarito alsroot fwd it to sugar-devel
15:01 silbe yama: loosing the settings across *un*install is intentional (some activities store quite a lot). Anything else on the activity level should leave the settings intact (unless the activity itself breaks compatibility).
15:01 alsroot yama: there is an intention to have shared object (in addition to full backup), ie, some journal object will be on the server/user's-usb
15:02 icarito yama yes for distributed teams its very important to collaborate effectively
15:02 silbe yama: Keeping the settings across OS updates is a matter of keeping $HOME across the updates.
15:03 icarito looks up archive link for Sugar WebSDK plans
15:03 yama silbe: for most things that's fine. dirakx1 got the english_rp voice working in Speak for us. I'd like that to be selected by default.
15:03 otherwise Speak sounds American, which isn't useful for us
15:03 icarito #link http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]-June/001311.html
15:04 alsroot yama: do you have, in AU, some ideas for "so that the settings persist across (un)install and upgrades" to share?
15:04 there is http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]res/Smart_Objects for that reason
15:04 silbe yama: Sounds more like you'd like Speak to choose a different voice based on the current locale (which should be different between US and AU), not a regular setting.
15:04 icarito we can help you set up your activity repository with your customizations
15:06 Not sure WebSDK is a good name - the idea is not yet-another-api for sugar
15:06 yama right now our repo is at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Acti[…]ies/OLPCAU/10.1.3
15:06 suggestions for optimisations are welcome
15:07 icarito I don't plan on binding sugar to javascript either - but alsroot already has some work on pulyol which is a sugar-toolkit api in gobject-introspection
15:08 yama, i'm doing this framework with the objective of providing an offline activity catalogue
15:08 alsroot icarito: actually my intention was not exactly to use polyol in JS but just doing the same what KDE/gnome3 people do for web methids integration to theirs DEs
15:08 icarito only generalizing the solution so we can quickly design activities with a webkit-based rendering engine
15:09 alsroot: yes but there is a slight confusion, i'm not really that interested in using javascript for accessing sugar but rather webkit as a rendering engine
15:10 so I think probably it is not my goal here
15:10 lucian icarito: tthen you might be interested in pyjamas desktop
15:10 icarito alsroot: but if it comes for free, then all the better :-)
15:11 yama +1 for integrating webkit
15:11 that opens all kinds of awesome possibilities
15:11 icarito lucian: also researched that, and it does seem quite interesting - but also secondary - I dont want to learn yet another declarative UI language
15:11 lucian icarito: so you want webkit instead of gtk for the GUI, but you're fine with python
15:11 icarito: pyjamas desktop lets you use html&css
15:11 icarito one way to distributing work on activities is separating graphic, UI design from actual functionality
15:11 lucian you could easily roll your own, just embed webkit
15:12 icarito lucian: your input is particularly interesting - I also think this is within easy reach
15:12 yama Is this similar to how Flash activities can be written using gnash?
15:12 lucian i mean, it's been done before. look at xul ...
15:13 yama: it's more similar to forking Browse
15:13 icarito so I want to make it even easier, provide a simple hello world activity
15:13 yama: very similar
15:13 lucian in fact, i had a project 'webified' over gsoc a few years ago
15:13 cjl yama about Speak accents see http://espeak.sourceforge.net/languages.html
15:14 icarito so you could have designers work on all the graphic bits
15:14 I will work on the glue underneath
15:14 yama cjl: yes, that's where I got the idea of using en-rp from :)
15:14 icarito first case study will be doing the activity catalogue
15:15 lucian sure, it'd work. but i've been disappointed by xul/html for desktop UIs, personally
15:15 i don't see the advantage over QML/glade
15:15 icarito lucian: the advantage is not technical but social - there are huge dev resources available in the html/css design world
15:15 they are good and know their tools
15:15 lucian icarito: if you really wanted, you could provide a browser fork and sugar bindings to JS
15:16 icarito: but there are big headaches with security. i'd recommend not providing js bindings
15:16 silbe doesn't look like tch will join in :-/ Should we do the Dextrose topic anyway?
15:17 lucian one could implement something similar to chrome's shortcuts, and i have partly done that with webified
15:17 icarito yes if you really wanted, but i'm not concerned with the business logic part, any good dev can make python do incredible things, but devs aren't good at UI design
15:17 lucian: I tried webified as well
15:18 did not see that part, what are chrome's shortcuts?
15:18 lucian icarito: uh, just SSBs, mostly
15:18 the advantage is that chrome also has extensions with good security
15:18 yama if we could use/port Web apps, we'd have a much larger developer base
15:18 icarito silbe: I think we should cover dextrose, what you can, tch can update anytime, also we read his email about this this week
15:19 yama e.g. if we could run ChromeOS apps
15:19 +1 for discussing dextrose
15:19 lucian yama: you'd need chrome for that, really
15:19 silbe icarito: ok, let's start then.
15:19 icarito yama glad you agree its a good approach
15:19 #topic dextrose
15:20 silbe: you have the mic
15:20 silbe I've finished a first pass of identifying patches that are in DX2, but not in DX3 yet and worth porting.
15:22 Unfortunately, quite a lot of the interesting features are spread over several patches with totally different file names so I'll need to compare against the spec file to combine them into a single patch before I can take a more in-depth look at them.
15:22 icarito silbe: i'm confused with dx2 dx12 dx3 can you clarify a bit ?
15:23 dx12 = dx3?
15:23 silbe It would be great if the respective authors could provide me with combined patches - especially for microformat updater, Notifications and Feedback.
15:24 yama how are DX activities updated right now?
15:24 do they use the microformat updater?
15:25 silbe icarito: DX2 = current stable release. DX3 = current development version, upcoming stable release. DX12 = next development version, to be released in December 2011 => for academic year (20)12.
15:26 yama: both DX2 and DX3 do use the microformat updater, yes.
15:26 icarito lucian, silbe while studying web toolkits, I was convinced the approach for browsers is all wrong. instead of coding our own browser, we should provide patches, for instance an extension to XUL that does journal and modifies the gui a bit
15:27 silbe No news this week w.r.t. NM 0.9; we discussed other topics during the Design Team meeting last week.
15:27 icarito the work silbe was doing on making non-sugar apps run well on sugar is also important
15:27 lucian icarito: yes, i said that too in an email
15:27 icarito: firefox is made for extending, not embedding
15:27 but for webkit, it does make sense to embed
15:27 icarito lucian: ah yes I remember I read that from you as well
15:28 lucian for chrome? i don't know. it's very odd
15:28 i think there was an oss startup embedding chrome, they were selling a laptop thing
15:29 icarito silbe: is it in your plans to add better non-sugar integration?
15:29 I think this would be a great feature
15:29 silbe It would be great if somebody could take over doing distribution level work. I can do it, but it takes time away from my other work like porting / cleaning up patches and working with the Design Team.
15:29 icarito of course its big
15:29 silbe (or as is the case currently, I don't do new builds because I'm busy with those other tasks)
15:30 icarito silbe: what does that entail?
15:30 silbe icarito: add to what? Sugar? Browse?
15:30 icarito distribution level work?
15:30 Sugar and/or Dextrose
15:31 silbe for instance, we could provide a sugar icon theme for applications and use the default xdg icon instead of the gray circle
15:32 silbe icarito: doing builds, tracking OLPC releases and upstream tickets to make sure fixes make it into Dextrose, ...
15:32 icarito and also provide a way to launch non sugar apps
15:33 silbe icarito: for Sugar I do plan better non-Sugar application integration; unfortunately I haven't had much time lately to work on it. Though I'd count my recent popup fixes as part of that work: I can now run Sugar inside notion (a tiling window manager).
15:33 icarito silbe: is there any way the workflow could be better to make this chore more fun?
15:34 silbe icarito: I believe you already tried my patch for running XDG applications from the Favourites view
15:35 anything left to discuss for our current Dextrose work?
15:35 icarito yes it clashes a bit with walter's for going back to favorites home view from list view
15:35 yama I'd like to discuss roadmaps
15:35 is there a roadmap for DX12?
15:35 silbe icarito: oh. I'll take a look later.
15:36 yama: W.r.t. the time line we'll mostly align with the OLPC one. I don't think they have done one for the December release yet, though.
15:37 yama In terms of time lines, we need a DX12 with AU customisations ready for deployment before the start of the new school year in *January*. That includes porting all additional functionality that we have added in our XO-AU releases. That shouldn't be hard to do. Some of our stuff might be better done differently.
15:37 silbe yama: as for what we're going to work on, there has been no decision yet, but my priority will be NM 0.9 integration.
15:37 yama if it's not available by January, Australian teachers won't have time to implement it :(
15:39 silbe yama: is there a git repository or some other way to look at your patches? Anything in particular that you expect to be potentially troublesome to port to DX12?
15:39 yama silbe: https://dev.laptop.org.au/proj[…]/xo-au/repository
15:39 I think it should all be simple
15:39 icarito #info australian teachers need dx12 by january to implement it
15:40 yama we're trying to upstream as much as we can
15:40 but we need to be sure that what we've been upstreaming to OLPC is available in DX12
15:40 silbe yama: thanks! I'll take a look at it.
15:40 icarito yama I saw olpcau's video
15:40 yama we've also done cool stuff with OS Builder that I think you'll like :)
15:40 icarito so you're going to scale from 1500 machines to how many?
15:40 yama icarito: did you like it? :)
15:41 icarito: we've got over 5000 XOs now. Aiming for 300,000 by 2014.
15:41 icarito yes very inspiring yet informational
15:42 cjl icarito School year starts in Jan, I would give yourself testing time before that, besdies peopel are busy in December
15:42 icarito yama are you affiliated with olpc association, or foundation, or are you independent?
15:42 yama icarito: we're independent
15:43 icarito cjl +1
15:43 yama but OLPC approved
15:43 silbe yama: We rebase on OLPC for every release and usually pass through all their changes during development as well. So everything you manage to upstream should make it into DX. If there's anything missing, please give me a heads-up.
15:44 cjl yama please work on recruiting me some locaizers :-)  Especially Oceanic and SE Asian langs
15:44 yama cjl: we're trying but it's not easy :(
15:44 icarito are we about ready to wrap up?
15:44 cjl I know
15:44 silbe yama: ideally, you should start basing a development release on DX12 as soon as we publish the first build. This ensures maximum testing for both DX and XO-AU.
15:45 yama cjl: although we're focused on English anyway
15:45 cjl yama Consider it community service
15:45 yama silbe: that's my thought, yes
15:45 cjl: my current role is more than a full-time job, sadly
15:45 cjl yaam, then recruit people to recruit :-)
15:45 silbe icarito: fine with me - anything else you'd like to talk about during the meeting, yama?
15:46 icarito #topic misc
15:46 yama BTW, I'm going to be completely unavailable (on holiday) in August and September, and will have lots of catch-up in October. I need to be sure that everything is going well.
15:46 i.e. with me gone there'll be no direct technical management in OLPC AU for that period
15:47 silbe yama: ok, we should make sure we meet in July to plan ahead then.
15:47 yama silbe: cool
15:47 I'm working overtime to make sure that everything is in place before August
15:47 and we also have our existing OS to support
15:47 icarito m_anish will be on vacation as well, congratulations to both
15:48 m_anish until june 27th
15:48 yama I'm gone from Aug 11 to Oct 4
15:49 icarito #info yama unavailable from aug 11 to oct 4 - m_anish until june 27th
15:49 silbe yama: https://dev.laptop.org.au/proj[…]/xo-au/repository looks like it's based on a git repository, but I can't a git url. Is the repository public?
15:49 icarito just wanted to wish good luck to the AC rolling stones, relocators lucian dfarning, m_anish and alsroot
15:50 silbe icarito: +1
15:50 lucian icarito: uh, thanks. i'm not sure i'll be relocating yet, though :)
15:50 yama silbe: https://git.laptop.org.au/ - just realised there's no public git access
15:50 silbe: if you make an account at dev.laptop.org.au you should be able to see the repo
15:51 I'll get that fixed
15:51 silbe yama: ok, thanks, will try.
15:51 icarito you guys are a fun bunch
15:51 yama silbe: let me know if you still have trouble
15:51 icarito guess we are about ready to close then
15:51 any last words?
15:52 yama one last thing
15:52 we'd really like the OS available in a VM form
15:52 cjl On the whole, I'd rather be in Philadelphia. . .WC Fields tombstone
15:52 yama i.e. a VM that looks and behaves exactly as it would on an XO
15:53 SoaS is not close enough
15:53 silbe yama: me too - would aid testing a lot. Unfortunately I got stuck on some weird boot issue the last time I tried...
15:53 (early boot that is)
15:53 yama I got this far: https://dev.laptop.org.au/proj[…]i/Virtual_machine
15:53 Sugar loaded to the name screen
15:53 but couldn't get to the Home screen
15:54 icarito +1 - silbe maybe if there would be a dextrose soas image
15:54 silbe yama: ah, interesting, so you're trying to manually replicate the customisations OOB is doing at build time after installation...
15:55 yama silbe: I think it would be better if the OS Builder could pump out a VM image
15:55 a VM is just another hardware platform
15:55 silbe icarito: a SoaS image would be quite different due to the way it works.
15:56 yama: I have patches to do that - unfortunately the resulting image doesn't boot. It segfaults inside the initrd.
15:56 yama silbe: have you tried substituting in a standard Fedora kernel?
15:57 i.e. not an XO kernel
15:57 silbe yama: that is with the standard Fedora kernel
15:57 I don't think an XO one would even boot
15:57 yama I wouldn't think it would
15:57 amongst other things, we really want interactive whiteboards support
15:58 if the teacher could run a VM on their laptop, that would work
15:58 icarito_ <icarito_!~webchat@jita.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:58 yama their Windows laptop has all the proprietary interactive whiteboards software installed, which could be used with the VM
15:59 much better than installing that stuff on an XO
15:59 icarito_ sorry lost my connection again
15:59 silbe yama: help with debugging the segfault issue would be appreciated. Once it boots, most stuff should just work.
15:59 yama a VM also provides a user and development enviornment for people who don't have an XO
16:00 tch Hello guys !
16:00 silbe tch: finally!
16:00 tch: nice to see you
16:00 icarito_ #info having a build that boots in vm would be useful for yama
16:00 yama silbe: do you have your results/errors posted somewhere?
16:00 silbe yama: I posted on the OLPC devel list a while back
16:01 icarito_ tch im about to endmeeting :-)
16:01 tch haha, ill be quick then :)
16:01 icarito has quit IRC
16:01 yama tch: I'm very interested in your work on mounting network file shares, and on accessing ~/Documents in Sugar
16:02 tch basically this week i have been researching about different options for that :)
16:02 yama tch: any chance that stuff will be available in DX12?
16:02 icarito_ i will do endmeeting and then we can go on informally
16:03 thanks everyone
16:03 tch icarito_: thank you :D hehe
16:03 icarito_ #endmeeting
16:03 icarito_ is now known as icarito
16:03 tch yama: we should do our best to make it happen ;)
16:03 icarito #endmeeting
16:03 meeting Meeting ended Sat Jun 18 16:03:53 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
16:03 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-18T14:25:20.html
16:03 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-06-18T14:25:20

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