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#sugar-meeting meeting, 2011-06-11 16:10:04

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16:10 meeting Meeting started Sat Jun 11 16:10:04 2011 UTC. The chair is silbe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:10 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
16:10 silbe #topic Dextrose release schedules
16:11 dfarning has quit IRC
16:11 silbe #info Dextrose 3 is the current development version. It is the first release synchronised with OLPC. Release is scheduled for 2011-07-20.
16:13 #info Dextrose 12 is the next development version and will be released in December 2011.
16:13 bernie joins the meeting
16:13 dfarning <dfarning!~dfarning@> has joined #sugar-meeting
16:14 silbe #info Neither OLPC nor Dextrose has decided on the version of Sugar for OLPC 12.1 / DX 12 yet, but we're aiming for 0.94.
16:15 #info One of the release goals for DX 12 will be NetworkManager 0.9 support, including the associated design and code architecture changes.
16:15 dfarning silbe do you think you can try to push for 0.94 as mainly a bug fix release rather than a new feature release?
16:16 silbe since olpc and us are both trying to make a stable release in Dec.
16:16 silbe dfarning: I don't think we'll need to do much pushing. The only significant contributors right now are paid by either OLPC or AC.
16:17 dfarning: the major new feature that 0.94 will hopefully have is the NM 0.9 work.
16:18 dfarning silbe thanks that sounds good. then we can do a bernie release for .96
16:19 silbe Which is a rather sad state of affairs, BTW. But that's a different topic; maybe if Pablo joins in we can bring it up later?
16:19 bernie silbe, m_anish: what about the activity updater? is it upstream yet?
16:20 dfarning Pabloe is not availabe on weekend so he can't participate in these meeting :(
16:20 silbe bernie: I haven't assembled the patches to a single piece yet, so I couldn't even take a closer look. :-/
16:20 bernie silbe, m_anish: i've seen that dsd reverted to the old updater from sugar 0.82 for his next release... the one that depends on bitfrost and uses weird python constructs all over the place.
16:21 silbe dfarning: ok, we should do something about that - maybe in combination with the OLPC-AU meeting?
16:21 dfarning silbe but there has been some action for Latin American developer post EduJAM
16:22 bernie, do you know why he reverted?
16:22 silbe dfarning: good to know. Now if somebody could export a braindump of Spanish that I can import... ;)
16:23 dfarning silbe yah -- learning spanish is much hard for me at 40 than leaning danish was at 16.
16:23 dirakx dfarning:  what action ? ;). just curious.
16:23 bernie dfarning: i think he did not even see the new updater in dextrose...
16:24 dfarning: the one in sugar 0.92 still doesn't support the microformat, so it wasn't adequate for him
16:24 dfarning dirakx I though i saw some stuff from manuq
16:24 dirakx dfarning: ah o.k
16:24 yep.
16:24 silbe bernie: erikos has been asking about the new updater, so there's a chance they might switch. That's why I need to work on it ASAP.
16:24 bernie dfarning: we still have plenty of patches that haven't been subitted upstream, i think it would be worth reiterating over all of them and resubmitting the ones that we missed.
16:25 silbe bernie: please check your backlog :-P
16:25 bernie silbe: isn't the current patch set in dextrose good enough for submission?
16:25 silbe bernie: it isn't even good enough for me to take a look :-/
16:25 bernie silbe: ah, i had missed that!
16:26 silbe bernie: the changes are scattered over a sad of patches
16:26 set even
16:27 manuq dfarning: hi
16:27 bernie silbe: yes, i don't understand why people started stacking adjustments over old patches rather than submitting a new revision of the old patch...
16:28 dfarning manuq hey -- was just commentin that I was happy to see your work on the mailing lists.
16:28 silbe bernie: that's exactly my problem. Now I need to combine them first... Easy enough to do, but it takes time.
16:28 dfarning bernie is that a workflow tch needs to learn or someone else?
16:29 bernie silbe: yes, we should not accept incremental patches (although it's good to split a large work in N self-contained patches that do one thing each)
16:29 manuq dfarning: thanks, I'm here if you have something to ask
16:30 bernie dfarning: maybe both tch and anish? i'm not sure... silbe, which features tend to have have incremental patches?
16:31 dfarning bernie in that case just you or silbe showing them will be enough to fix things for future patches.
16:32 bernie dfarning: k
16:32 silbe bernie: a nice patch set would be great, but stacks of bug fixes to the previous patches are not.
16:36 I guess we're done with the DX release schedule now? Any remaining question?
16:36 dfarning bernie, silbe do you have time to go over http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Dextrose/3/Todo and move stuff from http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/D[…]ose/3/Todo/EduJAM to there of else to http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Dextrose/12/Todo
16:37 I expect that tch and anish will spend almost all of their time over the next 6 months working off those lists.
16:39 silbe dfarning: most of the items on http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Dextrose/3/Todo are more of an idea than something to actually work on. I'd need more detail to decided on whether we can do it within DX-3 or even DX-12 timeline.
16:39 "kill the mute function" is already done, though.
16:40 dfarning silbe ok, should the sorting and prioritizing task be for m_anish
16:41 silbe is that all for dextrose?
16:42 should we move to activites with dirakx and icarito?
16:42 silbe dfarning: we should convert them into actual work items before sorting and prioritising them. After filtering it a bit for obvious long-term tasks.
16:42 dfarning silbe +1
16:42 silbe ok, let's move on then
16:42 dirakx ok I've been working on activity issues of the au people,
16:42 silbe #topic Activities
16:43 dfarning dirakx awesome :)
16:43 dirakx some of the issues are already upstreamed some others not.
16:43 they have a bunch of new activities that want to develop.
16:43 icarito read your prior conversation, looking at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Dextrose/3/Todo I'm interested in item #1 "Make activities work in Gnome without Sugar"
16:43 dirakx so we are working in a procedure of custom activity development.
16:44 #link http://dev.laptop.org.au/proje[…]issues?query_id=6
16:44 also did some updates and fixes for some activities regarding mainly activity.info deprecations and other minor fixes.
16:45 dfarning dirakx have you gotten a chance to talk to yama for feedback on the activity creation template?
16:46 silbe icarito: let's talk about that after the meeting. A first step would be to define what level of non-Sugar-ness is intended.
16:46 dirakx dfarning: not yet. I have to poke him for it.
16:46 dfarning dirakx +1
16:47 dirakx we are looking for a dev/designer pythonist to join us in working on this new activities developments.
16:47 dfarning dirakx so basically you and icarito have a plan and you are working that plan? :)
16:47 dirakx dfarning: indeed.
16:47 silbe dirakx, dfarning: we could add it to the agenda for the OLPC-AU meeting. We should try really hard to make it happen next week; I promised this week. :-/
16:48 dirakx this week icarito was on a trip this week btw.
16:48 silbe: thanks.
16:48 dfarning dirakx +1 have you found anyone promising in your circle of friends.
16:48 dirakx dfarning: nop :( all the pythonist here are very busy.
16:48 icarito yes I was on a late honeymoon :-)
16:48 acaire11 <acaire11!~webchat@jita.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
16:49 dirakx icarito: have you anyone that could it that role ?
16:49 fit*
16:49 acaire11 hola rafael
16:49 dirakx hola acaire11
16:50 icarito which brings us to one idea we're pursuing which is a framework
16:50 dfarning silbe are you setting up a meeting with yama to sync the AU development with dx12 development?
16:50 acaire11 upps - sorry
16:50 aprendiendo a usar la herramienta
16:50 dirakx dfarning: but I have some prespectives from the community let's follow up by mail.
16:50 icarito sorry, its something we discussed at edujam
16:51 what i'm wanting to have is a way to code activities in a MVC way so that we may have the UI done in HTML/css
16:51 and hook events to python so that the backend can be done in python
16:51 bernie silbe: i guess it's too late to work on most of the stuff in Dextrose/3/Todo... except maybe for the journal multiple selection work. We might want to move the rest of the list to Dextrose/12/Todo.
16:52 silbe dfarning: we're setting up a meeting to discuss OLPC-AU's technical challenges and how Dextrose / AC can help them address them. IOW: What we are going to work on for DX-12.
16:52 dfarning dirakx +1 -- we should also talk to pablo there are a buch of people active in ceibal jam who are not active on the sugar list.
16:52 icarito this could help us leverage a lot of html/css expertise available here for building content / activties
16:52 dfarning silbe +1
16:52 dirakx dfarning: +1.
16:53 icarito dirakx, sorry I mixed topics
16:53 silbe icarito: interesting idea. Are you going to build on WebKit already or xulrunner at first?
16:53 dirakx icarito: np, that additionwould be nice. i.e making gui on html/css
16:54 there is glade for gtk, also ;).
16:54 dfarning icarito I think you were on topic, I am just slow. we haven't had a meeting in a while and I am trying to figure out how the piece fit together.
16:55 icarito silbe: at this point i'm not decided, depends on which one has easier hooks
16:55 silbe: whichever is the least work actually :-)
16:55 as its only a side project to the Activity Pack we're building
16:55 silbe icarito: It's bound to be WebKit. Nothing can be worse than python-xpcom. ;)
16:56 icarito the idea of the activity pack is to have a distribution channel for a group of activities
16:57 and a way for having a catalog, a bit like the ubuntu add/remove tool
16:58 i consider it a part of our job to facilitate an ecosystem of content in activities
16:58 dirakx icarito: can you make a description onthe wiki with roadmap..etc..? somewhat like alsroot is doing with TheServer
16:58 silbe icarito: how does it relate to a.sl.o?
16:59 icarito silbe: the other side of the problem that is the actual distribution of activities and I've been trying to wrap my head around alsroot's sweets project for that
16:59 actually I was just discussing this with him on pvt
17:00 so aslo is supposed to be a web frontend to the activity library
17:00 icarito has quit IRC
17:01 icarito <icarito!~webchat@jita.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
17:01 icarito the idea is we can distribute an activity pack installer (launcher in sweets terminology)
17:01 this installer would be a pretty html rendered catalogue
17:02 to launch activities packaged as sweets in the same way ASLO is
17:02 silbe icarito: so it would be something like a frontend to the a.sl.o database that's implemented as a Sugar activity?
17:03 icarito this opens the posibility of having a communication channel for i.e. feedback or discussion among users about activities
17:03 silbe icarito: or a frontend to a different database than a.sl.o, so people looking for activities need to check both places?
17:03 icarito silbe: yes in a way, for offline use, packaging of activities and distribution
17:04 silbe: actually a tool for deployments for instance to deploy their activity selection and a way for us to deploy AC's activity selection
17:05 i'm at a stage where i'm looking at the pieces for this and trying to see how they fit, so I'm hoping to document what I find and my vision so as to get feedback
17:05 silbe icarito: ok, the next question would have been how it relates to the activity updater, but I'll wait for your document instead.
17:06 icarito from a user's pov they could have just one download and get a select activity pack and info about the activities, i.e. who made them, what are they for, maybe even to provide feedback or discuss them with other users
17:06 silbe: ok yes but your questions are very useful because I need to think of every place where we interact with the rest of the system
17:07 silbe icarito: glad to be of service
17:07 icarito i dont want to overcomplicate the project, my goal is a distribution means for an activity selection
17:08 strategics about who does selecting are a different topic :-)
17:09 looking at i.e. ubuntu you have universe/multiverse (like ASLO) then you have PPAs (like deployments might have, or AC)
17:09 silbe does the microformat activity updater support multiple URLs? If so, that would be a distribution channel for activity groups as well - though I expect your project to be more encompassing.
17:10 ok, should we move on to the next topic?
17:10 icarito thanks I'll update you then about it, will email dextrose list and then document in a wiki page
17:11 silbe icarito: thx!
17:12 #topic Meeting time
17:13 icarito maybe just to make sure, next meeting is at usual old time, correct? 14utc?
17:13 heh glad we're in sync silbe
17:13 silbe heh
17:13 Let's make a quick poll:
17:14 please state your preference for 14 UTC and 16 UTC as -1,0,+1
17:14 (@everyone)
17:14 dfarning silbe, bernie, dfarning, icarito, dirakx, m_anish, tch ^ :)
17:14 icarito silbe: confusing instructions
17:15 i thought dfarning already set 14? :-)
17:15 dirakx 16utc +1.
17:15 14UTC 0
17:16 silbe icarito: Sorry. Please give a value for both 14 UTC and 16 UTC, stating how well it would suit you: -1 not good, 0 neutral, +1 good
17:16 dfarning 14 +1
17:16 16 +1
17:16 icarito 14 +1
17:16 16 -1
17:17 dfarning alroot said +1 to both
17:17 silbe ok. AIUI bernie is 14 0, 16 +1
17:18 FTR: yama is 14 0, 16 -1
17:18 (we talked about it last week)
17:19 tch hey guys
17:19 anytime is ok for me during the week :)
17:19 dirakx I think that for yama 14 or 13 is o.k.
17:19 silbe tch: hey! your chance to change to tip the scales and change the meeting times ;)
17:20 tch silbe: a had a terrible yesterday and had to over sleep to recover lol
17:20 silbe ok, then let's get back to 14 UTC for now. We have 1-2 "not good" for 16, but none for 14.
17:20 tch s/terrible/terrible day
17:20 dfarning tch
17:20 silbe tch: don't let multiple Journal objects chase you in your dreams ;)
17:20 dfarning silbe +1
17:21 tch silbe: i dream with it all day lol,
17:21 dfarning tch more paperwork for taxes?
17:21 dirakx :)
17:21 silbe #agreed AC meetings will happen on Saturdays at 14:00 UTC
17:21 tch dfarning: paperwork, car cash, etc
17:21 icarito tch: good work there sorry I gave no feedback i have to take time to write emails
17:22 silbe tch: but you're well? Just the car wrecked?
17:22 tch walter and his 20.000 entries DS helped to find flaws in the current implementation so Im still fixing it
17:22 icarito acaire11 is our UI expert tried to show her  the video but she told me she needed to try the patches herself
17:22 tch silbe: yeah, but car has a few scratches nothing serious but i really love my car haha
17:23 icarito btw acaire11 is laura, my wife who also volunteers her skills for sugar mission :-)
17:23 silbe tch: lol. I have a copy of his DS as well, helped me find bugs in the DS code. :)
17:23 acaire11 hello to all
17:23 dfarning silbe let's chang topic back to dextrose and have tch give an update.
17:23 silbe tch: ah, ok then. Scratches are normal for a car. If it's new you'll need to make a first scratch or you'll be too worried about not making one. :-P
17:24 dfarning hello acaire11
17:24 silbe #topic Tinchos dextrose work
17:24 acaire11 dfarning back from great vacations
17:25 dfarning acaire11 nice
17:25 silbe acaire11: welcome to our meeting!
17:25 acaire11 catching up!
17:25 silbe thx!
17:25 tch Basically, I have working version of the multi-selection, sadly my ex-current approach had some not-nice performance issues, so I am working on it.
17:26 dfarning acaire11 we are in need of a UI person. non-of us have any taste :(
17:26 tch At the same time, I am doing a small research on nfs-like services so at least i can try the xs-storage (naive cloud journal) idea as a entry-level backup system
17:26 acaire11 I'll be happy to help  :)
17:27 tons of taste here to share
17:27 tch and that it is,
17:27 acaire11 jojojo
17:27 dfarning tch how about the state of the dx3 patch set? can you clean that up so silbe can pull stuff upstream -- he mentioned something about your patch work flow also
17:28 silbe dfarning: I guess s/dx2/dx3/ ?
17:29 tch dfarning: well, the last patches i sent to the list (before edujam) were for dx2
17:29 dfarning: most of them were the last would-be-nice-to-have/solve-ones
17:29 bernie silbe: 16 +1, 14 -1
17:30 tch nothing critical, but talking about dx3 upstream work: It would be nice to have my notifications and share-3g there
17:31 but I guess upstream first interest its on the microformat updater
17:31 silbe bernie: psst. Another vote like yours and we'd have to change the time. :)
17:32 tch: you mean OLPC. I do have interest in the other ones, too. :)
17:32 dfarning tch can you take alook at the various TODO lists and prioritize them.
17:32 tch right
17:32 dfarning: i will.
17:33 dfarning silbe is that about it? I think covered all the major topics.
17:33 anyone have organizatioal questions for me?
17:33 silbe is there anything else we should discuss for the current topic? Two other topics I'd like to discuss are a) Who's going to do the NM 0.9 port and
17:34 b) when do we meet with OLPC-AU
17:34 dfarning silbe I'll set up b :)
17:34 tch silbe:  _if_and _when_ i am done with my current tasks i would like to! I got some experience with NM while doing the 3G thing
17:35 dfarning silbe is a) a show stopper for dx12?
17:35 silbe awesome, two topics covered in two chat messages.
17:35 tch silbe: but would be great if all design discussion could be done before that ;)
17:36 silbe: guess ill need to catch up with soas guys, i hear they did some work on that
17:36 silbe dfarning: It's a major issue for OLPC-AU at least. It'll also limit our choice of which version of Fedora we're going to base on.
17:37 tch: Gary and I did a 3-hour marathon on the design last week.
17:37 tch silbe:  awesome, a GUI mockup + user-interaction-flow mockups would be great
17:38 silbe Unfortunately, nobody else was there last week (no email replies either) and walterbender already mentioned he can't join us tomorrow.
17:38 dfarning silbe is the fedora issue really an issue. i thougt we were basing on 14 because of the gnome and python updates in 15?
17:39 tch basing on fedora 14 would save a lot of time (i think) :P
17:39 silbe dfarning: TBH I have no idea yet. But as of today, I have a larger disk drive and can install a F15 VM to take a look.
17:40 dfarning silbe great.
17:40 tch and though we were going to stay close to OLPC build this time ;)
17:40 dfarning tch +10
17:40 silbe tch: has OLPC already decided on a base OS for the December 2011 release?
17:42 tch silbe: if they choose something different than f14 (considering the big changes since f15, correct me if i am wrong) it is highly probable that won't be mature enough
17:42 dirakx at least browse doesn't start on F15 due to an hulahop thing.
17:43 tch maybe bernie can have a second though on this, but staying with f14 could be a wise choice
17:44 silbe tch: ultimately it's martinlanghoffs choice I guess. AIUI we're following OLPCs lead, whatever their choice is - for better or worse.
17:44 dfarning any other issues?
17:45 I'll summarize the meeting note -- actually I turn them into a giant todo list:)
17:45 silbe I'd like a quick poll of what everyone is working on / going to work on if you don't mind, just so I have some overview again.
17:45 dfarning silbe sure
17:46 silbe #topic Who's working on what
17:47 dfarning I'll also work with m_anish to wear his dextrose PM hat and help resync things
17:47 silbe Please give a single line each on what you've been working on and what you'll be doing next week. Thanks!
17:47 tch tch: multi-selection / xs journal device / dx2-features list for dx3
17:48 dirakx dirakx: au activities bugs and custom development.
17:48 dfarning is going to MVD to coordinate development expectations with Plan Ceibal and try to talk Flor de Ceibal into hosting and education focued summit this fall :)
17:49 alsroot sugar server.
17:49 silbe has been doing upstream work (Browse, code review, design work, ...) and will sort through the remaining patches in DX-2 that haven't been upstreamed yet. Plus Design Team meeting tomorrow (NM 0.9 port).
17:49 icarito icarito: activities pack / catalogue + aslo
17:50 silbe dfarning: MVD?
17:50 icarito dirakx: I need an XO, do you as well?
17:50 dfarning: how do we go about it, contributor's program?
17:50 dfarning montivideo
17:51 dirakx icarito: my xo machines are o.k for now.
17:51 icarito ah ok i have a borrowed xo1 but would need an xo1.5 hopefully two to test collaboration
17:51 dirakx icarito: Adam holt's contributor program would be a way to get one.
17:51 dfarning icarito we have some 1.0s but we will have to ask adam for 1.5s
17:52 icarito one xo 1.0 would be nice so I can return befana's (pilar from sl colombia)
17:52 dfarning dirakx icarito I will follow up on our  team xo needs
17:52 silbe icarito: CP should be a no-brainer. Please give me a heads-up one day in advance of the meeting and I'll join in, just to be sure.
17:52 icarito will go thru the contributors program for the 1.5
17:53 cool thanks silbe
17:53 thanks dfarning
17:53 dirakx +1
17:53 silbe icarito: but wait for dfarning first
17:53 icarito yes I will
17:53 silbe ok, any non-famous last words?
17:53 dirakx is waiting for the xo 1.75 contributors program. :)
17:54 silbe too :D
17:54 dfarning going to the contributors meeting should be fun:) they ask if you organization has done anything to help olpc
17:54 dirakx hehe.
17:55 dfarning I get to say 'yes we have 8 developer working full time on the project:)'
17:55 silbe lol
17:55 tch i want mine too :(
17:56 dfarning ok that looks like that about covers everything.
17:56 silbe tch: huh? Where is yours? At customs?
17:56 dfarning thanks guys.
17:56 silbe ok, let's end the meeting then...
17:56 tch I don't have a xo 1.75
17:56 silbe 3
17:56 tch i want one lol
17:56 dirakx lol
17:56 silbe 2
17:56 tch BOOM
17:56 silbe 1
17:56 0
17:56 tch -1
17:56 silbe -1
17:56 #endmeeting
17:56 meeting Meeting ended Sat Jun 11 17:56:57 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
17:56 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-11T16:10:04.html
17:56 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-06-11T16:10:04

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