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#sugar-meeting meeting, 2011-04-21 19:00:15

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19:00 meeting Meeting started Thu Apr 21 19:00:15 2011 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:00 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
19:00 walterbender welcome all.
19:00 we haven
19:00 't met in a while...
19:00 nothing too urgent, but some things we should sync up on
19:00 mchua Yup yup.
19:01 walterbender there is an agenda here: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/O[…]ght_Board/Minutes
19:01 the first topic is finances
19:01 #topic finances
19:02 I don't have much to say: we have little if any income or expenses
19:02 mchua #info "We haven't had a report in a while and there are some requests for funding: Sean wants a phone number for publicity and Sebastian had asked about the possibility of funding for Ceibal Jam. Also, there are a few past transactions that should be highlighted. (walter)"
19:02 from the wiki page
19:02 cjb walterbender: do we know how much money we have?
19:02 walterbender our current balance is just a bi tmore than $19K
19:02 mchua wonders if SL as a whole understands that we don't do the $ thing much.
19:02 walterbender Most of that money is earmarked.
19:03 We still have Gould Grant money in the bank.
19:03 cjb does it expire or anything?
19:03 walterbender That is earmarked for SoaS.
19:03 mchua just looked on the wiki - we don't seem to have any place where we're publicly keeping track of finance stuff, should we?
19:03 as in, how much we have and what it's earmarked for, basically what cjb just asked for and what walter is telling us now.
19:03 walterbender mchua: I had a finance person, Alex, who was going to put all of our fiancial transactions in the wiki... but he petered out :P
19:04 bernie :-(
19:04 mchua walterbender: if there's a data dump to wikitextify, send it to me and I'll do it over coffee tonight.
19:04 cjb maybe we should try to interpret the ledger file
19:04 we can't approve any spending if we don't know how much in non-earmarked funds we have
19:04 mchua can't promise to maintain, but setting it up would be a quick thing for me to do - I've done far too much accounting/finance for Fedora and Teaching Open Source already :)
19:04 cjb: +1
19:04 cjb but maybe doing this would take too long to do right now
19:04 walterbender cjb, mchua: we could write something that looked at the monthlies and exported a wiki table
19:05 that was what Alex was going to do...
19:05 bernie the treasurer role is probably no fun for volunteers.
19:05 walterbender bernie: true
19:05 mchua walterbender: hell, I'll do the first round manually, just get me the data :)
19:05 probably has it in her inbox somewhere but it'd be hard for me to find the latest
19:05 walterbender mchua: don't you get copies of the reports from the SFC?
19:05 bernie mchua: i think the data is attached to bkuhm's periodic emails
19:06 walterbender We have the Feb. data
19:06 mchua once we know what display we want, then we can automate it... but I agree with cjb that the questions at hand, "can we fund X?" can't be answered until we have a dollar number for what we have.
19:06 bernie, walterbender: I get them, but I don't file them for reference, so if someone could resend me the last one that'd be great.
19:06 cjb walterbender: I find it impossibly difficult to understand.
19:06 So it's a good thing I'm not an accountant :-)
19:06 walterbender In any case, as a summary, Carolyn and I are co-investigators for Gould.
19:07 cjb walterbender: is there a time period that Gould's expected to run for, or does it just keep going until the money's done?
19:07 walterbender I dipped in occasionally for things like some travel support for Peter, who is doing the bulk of the heavy lifting on the technical side for SoaS.
19:07 Carolyn is dipping in for misc. deployment expenses
19:07 and some interns.
19:07 bernie mchua: the last one i have is for January.
19:07 walterbender I need to do an exact tally, but I think it is about 50% spent.
19:08 has Feb. will forward after the meeting.
19:08 bernie mchua: sent it to you
19:08 walterbender We have some other funds: GSoC money, which is under the control of the GSoC mentors. We spend the money from 2009 on travel for mentors.
19:09 mchua Here's what I propose: walterbender forwards mchua the current ledger, mchua puts up a finance wiki page that explains our current $ situation (or questions that need to be answered to clear it up), we tell everyone waiting for $ decisions to come back to the next SLOBs meeting, and we schedule that meeting before we end today, with finances as the "gotta get this done" item on there.
19:09 cjb mchua: sounds great!
19:09 mchua #info funds to consider in drawing up the finance picture - gould grant, gsoc
19:09 cjb walterbender: hm, don't think we agreed that let GSOC mentors control GSOC funds.
19:09 walterbender The 2010 money is mostly untouched (except I spent ~300 to pay for the RIT students to travel to the webste meeting in NYC).
19:09 cjb (but I might be wrong)
19:09 mchua not trying to rush through this, but cognizant that we have limited time and a full agenda.
19:09 also has a hard stop in 50m, another meeting I have to go to.
19:10 walterbender cjb: We agreed to that is the past, but we can revisit it.
19:10 mchua and if we can do info finding and presentation outside meetings so we can have discussion during meetings, I think that's a good thing. :)
19:10 bernie walterbender: i just noticed that the conservancy@sugarlabs.org alias was no longer being forwarded to slobs... I fixed that
19:10 cjb walterbender: (I'm saying I don't think we agreed to it in the past.)
19:10 mchua thanks bernie!
19:10 tch <tch!~tch@> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:10 cjb (but I'll take a look at previous minutes in the background; we can move on)
19:11 icarito <icarito!~icaro@> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:11 walterbender #action Walter will dig up the thread re GSoC $
19:11 cjb thanks.  sorry for the hassle.
19:11 walterbender #action Walter will post a summary of our accounts in the wiki and notify SLOBs
19:12 icarito hi
19:12 walterbender just to wrap up: we still have the money allocated for servers that we never bought. Bernie may have something to say about that
19:12 icarito its one hour early (reminder said 20UTC but its 19:13 UTC)
19:12 mchua walterbender: i'm happy to start the wiki page if you'd like to #action me on that - I'll translate the SFC's ledger files into human-readability.
19:12 cjb walterbender: thread "Please send SoC details for Sugar Labs soon; thanks" has a post where I say that we decided against allocating money to mentors.
19:12 walterbender cjb: I'll take a look...
19:12 icarito (EST is GMT-6)
19:13 cjb walterbender: yeah, I agree that we allocated money for servers, but I don't know that we still *have* that much money
19:13 so it may not be meaningful that it was allocated
19:13 mchua icarito: oh! right, most of us are in the US, where we have daylight savings time... so we're on EDT rather than EST right now.
19:13 walterbender icarito: sorry. this daylight savings time business has me confused.
19:13 Isn't it UTC-5:13 right now?
19:14 icarito walterbender, its UTC-6:13
19:14 http://timeanddate.com/worldcl[…]/city.html?n=1440
19:14 walterbender OK... well, we are all here now.
19:15 icarito checks backlog
19:15 walterbender back on task: assuming we have funds to pay a few hundred dollars for a phone number, I am in favor of it.
19:15 mchua assuming. :)
19:15 as noted above, I'd like to see whether we do have funds before making that call.
19:15 so the course of action proposed was to try and get that resolved asap.
19:16 cjb yep, seems like a reasonable use of money.  hopefully it won't be many hundreds; out of curiosity, wouldn't google voice etc be free?
19:16 or maybe there's something we need that services like google voice don't do.  do we want to make outgoing calls, or just incoming?
19:16 walterbender cjb: as I understand it, googlevoice doesn't offer a decent international service...
19:16 just incoming
19:17 whatever the solution, it won't be much money
19:17 cjb hm, I'm sure the incoming phone numbers you get from googlevoice are globally routable
19:17 yeah, sounds good
19:17 mchua would like to see that budget proposal written up - features needed, estimated cost, the chosen option and why it was the best of all the ones evaluated
19:17 walterbender cjb: maybe you can help Sean work this out
19:17 mchua nothing formal, even just a sentence on each
19:17 and then that makes an easy motion to look at and +1 or -1.
19:17 cjb walterbender: could do -- or we can just ask Sean for a little more info, like the exact amount requested
19:17 and which service he plans to use
19:18 walterbender It seems that either way, since I am one of the GSoC mentors, we could agree today to let him proceed, within some cap.
19:19 but at this point, I don't think it is urgent, so we can wait for the more detailed finance report and the resolution of the GSoC question.
19:19 meanwhile, we have icarito's question on the table.
19:20 mchua walterbender, cjb: http://fpaste.org/gkp3/ are the q's that seem good for Sean to answer
19:20 cjb cool.  icarito: what's your proposal?
19:20 mchua (if that looks fine I'll toss it to iaep with sean on cc)
19:20 cjb mchua: perfect, thanks!
19:21 icarito cjb, basically I'd like to attend edujam
19:21 walterbender sent the questions to sean
19:21 cjb icarito: okay.  how much money do you need to do that?
19:22 icarito I think its important for sugarlabs to have as much representation as possible
19:22 bernie guys, i feel that the board should be bothered with approving small budget requests
19:22 icarito the ticket from bogota is 1100 US
19:22 bernie boards in any foundations meet every few months... they can't do this kind of micro-management
19:22 cjb bernie: disagree, assuming you meant to put a not in there.
19:22 bernie cjb: no, i really mean that the board is meant to oversight, not manage Sugar Labs
19:22 mchua walterbender: ...woops, I just sent them also, and to iaep for transparency
19:23 walterbender mchua: +1
19:23 mchua good for people who are thinking of requesting budget to know (1) how tight we are on funds and (2) what info we need to make a call
19:23 bernie we have an Executive Director (equivalent to a CEO) and we could appoint a treasurer (equivalent to a CFO)
19:23 no company calls the shareholders to approve phone lines and stuff like that.
19:23 cjb bernie: we can have a vote if you like.  I am uncomfortable relieving ourselves of financial responsibility without a treasurer (which we don't have) while we continue to not have much money.
19:23 walterbender bernie: I am with you re 'petty cash'
19:24 cjb bernie: dude, you're talking about companies where the reason they don't micromanage small requests is that *they have much more money than the small requests are for*.
19:24 we don't.
19:24 bernie cjb: we've already voted Walter as our ED. This means granting him some executive powers.
19:25 walterbender cjb: I think we should be making decisons such as, should we be funding travel to SL events, as opposed to making the individual decisions about who goes
19:25 bernie cjb: I worry that we'll paralyze Sugar Labs if we centralize all decision making within an organ that meets once every few weeks or months.
19:25 cjb bernie: I interpret the conservancy as wanting SLOBs to have joint financial oversight.
19:25 walterbender cjb: but making those decisions in the dark is an issue.
19:25 cjb walterbender: cool, I think I agree with that
19:25 mchua Honestly, I don't care who makes the financial decisions or how, as long as (1) we don't spend more money than we have, and (2) all the accounting and financial disbursement is done transparency, so that iaep at least is informed of each request and transaction.
19:25 er, "transparently." I can't spell today.
19:26 bernie cjb: i should re-read our original contract, but hopefully nothing precvents us from delegating such power to individuals we trust... like any board does.
19:26 walterbender I think we have been operating that way... you haven't seen anything because nothing has happened
19:26 mchua In the absence of an individual assigned that responsibility, it falls to SLOBs.
19:26 cjb walterbender: yep, agreed again
19:26 bernie mchua: i think we can't spend more money than we have because the SFC controls our bank account and wouldn't grant us any credit.
19:26 cjb bernie: nonsense.
19:27 we could tell icarito today to go buy a 1100 US ticket and that we'll pay him back
19:27 and then we could not have enough money to pay him back.
19:27 icarito the reason i feel it is important enough to ask the board (and leave my family) for a week is I think the local labs need to align
19:27 and we need some face to face
19:27 to define objectives and common strategies
19:28 bernie cjb: ah, you mean fail to refund people who lend us money? yeah, we shouldn't do that.
19:28 walterbender cjb: at the same time, there is risk and there is risk
19:29 cjb: I think we need to be willing to trust that we have responsible people on our oversight board
19:29 mchua Okay, folks - we have a lot of other things on the agenda for today, and it seems to me that we're debating hypotheticals until we find out and publish to the community exactly how much $ we have.
19:29 walterbender has not seen evidence to the contrary
19:30 mchua: $ 19,592.13  Assets
19:30 bernie mchua: ok that's a very good goal
19:30 mchua non-earmarked total?
19:30 walterbender mchua: I need to figure that out
19:30 mchua Right. :) So we need that number before making any other calls.
19:30 walterbender mchua: my estimate is about 50-50
19:31 mchua Otherwise, we may be spending money that's already spoken for.
19:31 walterbender so we cannot answer icarito today.
19:31 I need to sort this out ASAP so we don't keep him in limbo.
19:31 mchua Right - and icarito, I think it would also help if we had a cost estimate from you
19:32 cjb mchua: ah, I think we got one -- 1100 US
19:32 mchua Oh, ok! Sorry, missed that :)
19:32 cjb (maybe we should ask for a more detailed one?)
19:32 mchua I'd like the breakdown, yeah...
19:32 icarito cjb, mchua 1100 is just for the airplane ticket
19:32 walterbender I think that is for airfare.
19:32 icarito the rest would come out of my pocket
19:32 cjb I think we also need to decide on a strategy for paying for travel, too
19:32 walterbender cjb: exactly
19:33 cjb viz. walter's idea that we shouldn't be deciding who SL sends to conferences ourselves
19:33 mchua so we need a few things:
19:33 cjb but it should come from the community
19:33 walterbender cjb: regardless of who controls it, I thought the GSoC mentor money was for travel requests such as these
19:33 mchua 1) a public statement of our financial situation, how much money we have and how much money is unallocated (and can be used for new things)
19:33 2) a process for people to propose line items - what information do they need to give SLOBs (or whoever) so we can make a financial decision?
19:33 cjb walterbender: hm, you thought it was earmarked for them?  by whom?
19:34 walterbender: I agree that travel is a fine use of SL money in general, I'm just confused about what exactly you mean by that.
19:34 walterbender cjb: I will have to find the relevant logs... I'll do that out of band
19:34 mchua cjb: for the record, fedora's travel funding system (community-sourced) is documented at https://fedorahosted.org/fudco[…]ki/FundingRequest
19:34 cjb walterbender: k, thanks.  To be clear, my recollection is that we did not approve associating GSOC money with mentors due to conflict of interest, and that GSOC money we've received has not been earmarked in any way.
19:35 mchua everything from "what info you need to provide" to "how it gets paid for if you're approved"
19:35 cjb (Which means it's available for any spending we want, as I understand it.)
19:35 mchua: nice!
19:35 walterbender cjb: I am willing to continue this discussion based on that assertion
19:36 cjb I guess I'm a bit worried -- and I think this is our fault -- that we haven't had time to announce to people that we're seeking requests for travel sponsorship to eduJam
19:36 mchua cjb: https://fedorahosted.org/fudco[…]te&order=priority has a sample queue of funding requests
19:36 cjb mchua: wow, so organized.
19:36 mchua helped make this process, and would be happy to set up something similar for SL if there's a need, just let me know.
19:37 walterbender commonsensical as well
19:37 cjb hehe, I should have known you had something to do with it :-)
19:37 walterbender mchua: +1
19:37 mchua do we want this set up in time for ceibal? That's soon.
19:37 icarito mchua, +1
19:37 :-)
19:37 mchua All right, I'll set it up then - bernie, if you can hit me with a trac component called "fundingrequest" that forwards tickets to SLOBs, that'd be great
19:37 cjb so I guess my current intuition here is that it's very late to be making any travel decisions for eduJam, since we weren't able to solicit sponsorship proposals and we're rushing to find out how much money we could offer
19:37 walterbender mchua: we can proceed as if it were in place by asking icarito to respond to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/[…]ttendees#Criteria
19:38 icarito seems that's very soon and I should buy the ticket asap
19:38 mchua walterbender: that'll work. :) icarito - willing to be a guinea pig?
19:38 cjb (and even if we announce that we're seeking them now, by this point it's too late for people to decide to go to a conference in two weeks :/)
19:38 walterbender and maybe vote by email so that we can get quick turn-around
19:38 mchua that means that as soon as icarito has his funding request in, SLOBs can look at it (mailing list, if we have to - meeting times are hard to get)
19:38 walterbender: jinx!
19:39 cjb how do other folks feel?
19:39 mchua (one moment, my connection may flicker for a bit - walking downstairs)
19:40 walterbender I think (a) we can vote on the system once mel puts something in place; and (b) vote on the instance once it is in the system, but I cannot see a or b happening in this meeting
19:40 bernie mchua: shall we first vote for having fundrising requests run through slobs as opposed to the ED?
19:40 cjb bernie: for example, I presume you would've applied for SL travel sponsorship for eduJam if you'd known it was possible?
19:40 walterbender but I am generally pleased with mimicing the Fedora criteria which seem sensible
19:41 bernie cjb: i would have asked walter, not the board.
19:41 walterbender cjb: not just Bernie,... me too, but I think we did know that we could make such requests... just not through such a formal mechanism
19:41 cjb: this is not the first travel request
19:42 bernie cjb: i think it's a mistake to give executive powers to slow organ like a board. at most, the board could *review* the work done by the ED, CFO, team coordinators, etc.
19:42 icarito mchua, i'm unclear about where these questions need to be anwered, a wiki page, a trac ticket?
19:43 mchua icarito: since we don't have infra right now, I'd say just email iaep and cc slobs and I'll make sure it gets put into the tracker when we have a component up.
19:43 walterbender bernie: I think the plan is to have the board approve the process, not the individual decisions
19:43 mchua bernie: and I'll need a trac component to do this, plz ;)
19:43 but I can also nag about that stuff later.
19:43 bernie walterbender: nice
19:43 mchua: who should the trac forward to?
19:43 walterbender bernie: presumably the process will spell out a decision-making body
19:43 mchua +1 on process approval.
19:44 (vs individual decisions)
19:44 walterbender All. I have only 15 minutes left :(
19:44 icarito +1 as well on process aproval
19:44 mchua bernie: set email to iaep for now, or walter if you need one person.
19:44 walterbender But I think we agreed to have Mel strawman a process for SLOBs approval and in parallel, icarito will enter the fray
19:45 bernie mchua: i think it would be better for people to email iaep or walter rather than going through a bug tracker.
19:45 walterbender I'd like to touch on some other topics quickly, if we can.
19:46 icarito #action i'll answer the fedora criteria to IAEP/SLOBs (icarito)
19:46 walterbender Can we let Mel take charge of designing the travel process/policy for a SLOBs vote?
19:46 bernie mchua: for example, when I asked for some money to OLPC, all I had to do was write to the Robert Fadel, and I got an email back with just one word: "Approved."
19:46 mchua: why does it have to be more complicated than this in Sugar Labs?
19:46 cjb walterbender: yes, sure.  let's move on.
19:46 bernie walterbender: oik
19:47 walterbender #topic Ceibal Jam, Sugar Camp
19:47 last time we met, it was not finalized. Now it is...
19:47 I think everyone has the basic info, but in case there are quesitons?
19:48 cjb no questions, looking forward to seeing everyone
19:48 walterbender The Ceibal Jam team has done a nice job organizing and I think we will have a good crowd...
19:48 #topic SugarLabs cycling team
19:48 icarito who will be there?
19:48 i mean from the board?
19:49 walterbender Bernie, CJB, Walter, Adam, you?, Alsroot?
19:49 cjb icarito: bernie/walter/alsroot/me/Adam
19:49 (at least I saw alsroot's name somewhere so I think he's going, I haven't asked him directly)
19:49 icarito looking forward to meeting most of you in person
19:49 alsroot is going
19:49 bernie yep
19:50 icarito: me too
19:50 walterbender we finally meet alsroot :P
19:50 yeah
19:50 cjb let's move on
19:50 icarito how are you all financing your travel?
19:50 walterbender ok.
19:50 cjb hehe, not that I'm not excited about meeting alsroot
19:50 bernie we have 6 board members in the same place together, that's a record
19:50 cjb but we're running rapidly out of time
19:50 walterbender quickly: http://vueltaciclista.sugarlabs.org/
19:51 let's cover this in more detail at the next meeting.
19:51 #topic Ubuntu
19:51 I met with one of their technical director who offered help making Sugar a flavor
19:52 cjb neat, do you remember who?
19:53 walterbender Allison Randal
19:53 bernie great
19:54 subuntu? :-)
19:54 cjb neat.  she's their Technical Architect.
19:54 walterbender We need to get someone to Budapest for the Ubuntu Camp that is at the same time as our Sugar Camp
19:54 longer discussion than I have time for today.
19:54 We should meet again next week.
19:55 cjb I wonder what it's good for slobs to do here -- maybe announce on iaep that we'd encourage people to form an "Ubuntu Team" (doesn't have to be a formal team) and then e-mail her to try to set up something like an IRC meeting about getting help with where to go?
19:55 walterbender cjb: +1
19:55 cjb oh, ok, sending someone to UDS sounds good too
19:55 walterbender I just want to give SLOBs a heads up
19:55 cjb yep, sounds good
19:55 walterbender OK. Next topic
19:55 #topic GPLv3
19:56 cjb actually, next was "new website"
19:56 walterbender oops
19:56 right.
19:56 cjb but we could stay on GPL and then come back?
19:56 walterbender #topic website
19:56 cjb whichever
19:56 walterbender Bernie:
19:56 bernie cjb: there's already an ubuntu sugar team, but it's kinda dead
19:57 This topic was a request to review the status of advancement of the website work.
19:58 There was a meeting yesterday, so i'm probably more up to date than the other slobs
19:58 Christian Mark Schmit created some comps: http://christianmarcschmidt.co[…]ojects/sugarlabs/
19:59 cjb that's cool
19:59 it looks a bit like the new olpc site
19:59 bernie cjb: yes, and I like it
19:59 cjb yep, me too
19:59 thanks for the update!  shall we go to GPLv3 quickly, and then finish?
20:00 walterbender yeap
20:00 yep
20:00 bernie cjb: sure
20:00 walterbender #topic GPLv3
20:00 I hope everyone had a chance to read the link I forwarded from Karen?
20:01 bernie yup
20:01 #link http://www.gnu.org/licenses/qu[…]-guide-gplv3.html
20:01 walterbender and there was the thread with Yama, which I think is mostly a misunderstanding, but he promised to get back to me with some 'evidence'
20:01 cjb I'm familiar with it and a move sounds good, but we'd have to contact >100 Sugar committers to ask for their permission, right?
20:02 (we don't own the copyright on their work, and can't change the license on it unilaterally.)
20:02 icarito actually as I read it when you license "GPLv2 or later"
20:02 alsroot bernie: can v2+ -> v3+ shit be a technical?
20:03 bernie cjb: nope, we don't have to
20:03 walterbender To me the relevant issues with v3 for us are not the usually hot topics: DRM, Patents... but rather compatibility and libraries
20:03 bernie cjb: we're not relicensing code retroactively
20:03 cjb bernie: ooh
20:03 icarito exactly bernie +1
20:03 bernie cjb: all we need to do is take advantage of the "GPLv2 or any later version" clause with which we received the code from past contributors
20:03 walterbender all:  alas, I need to run -- another Sloan study on Sugar Labs...
20:04 bernie: If I end meeting, can you start meeting again?
20:04 bernie In case it's needed I hearby relicense all my contributions to Sugar as "GPLv3 or any later version".
20:04 walterbender: sure
20:04 walterbender thanks all for coming...
20:04 bernie walterbender: thank you
20:04 walterbender I'll try to get to my homework tonight
20:04 #endmeeting
20:04 meeting Meeting ended Thu Apr 21 20:04:49 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
20:04 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-21T19:00:15.html
20:04 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-04-21T19:00:15

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