| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 14:41 |
meeting |
Meeting started Sun Apr 10 14:41:44 2011 UTC. The chair is garycmartin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 14:41 |
|
Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting |
| 14:42 |
garycmartin |
OK, diving right in. |
| 14:43 |
|
OK, so getting toolbar images for resource/reference use, need to pick a standard resolution 1200x900 or 1024x768, PNG format is good for me, screen grab of each toolbar in an activity, cropped to just show the toolbar. |
| 14:44 |
walterbender |
+1 |
| 14:44 |
garycmartin |
A core 10 or 20 activitirities would be a good start for a reference. |
| 14:44 |
walterbender |
how do we divy up the work? |
| 14:45 |
garycmartin |
While we are talking toolbar icons, there are some cases where developers have used sugar-artwork icons that are in the wrong named category and designed for non toolbar placement. |
| 14:46 |
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| 14:46 |
sv |
nick/ seba |
| 14:47 |
garycmartin |
So we have some icons that are now being used for the wrong placement (notification icons used for toolbar buttons, system search being used as a toolbar button, etc). |
| 14:48 |
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| 14:49 |
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| 14:50 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: re: divvy up... How about it time, if you're willing ;-) you have 3 days to email me a bunch of toolbar screen grabs that you have easy access to. Then once I get your email I'll grab some more to fill in the gaps. By next meeting we can have a contact sheet to look at. |
| 14:50 |
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(in time) |
| 14:50 |
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alsroot_away is now known as alsroot |
| 14:50 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: will do |
| 14:51 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: what res do you run your emulator at? |
| 14:51 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: I think the root cause of the misuse is that we are lacking proper icons for common functions |
| 14:52 |
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garycmartin: I typically run my vm at 1024x768 |
| 14:52 |
garycmartin |
or XO res is fine if you have one to hand. |
| 14:52 |
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| 14:54 |
garycmartin |
#action walterbender to grab some toolbar screen shots @ 1024x768 and email them to garycmartin mid week, who will try to fill in gaps/get more and make a contact sheet of them all for resource/reference |
| 14:55 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: be nice to somehow correlate the buttons with their intended actions too... |
| 14:56 |
|
garycmartin: e.g., 'new game', 'save to Journal'... |
| 14:56 |
|
not sure it will be apparent from just looking. |
| 14:56 |
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but it is a start |
| 14:57 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: re lack of proper icons, also seems a number of icons should be duplicated in sugar-artwork with different names to future proof us from design changes. I was suprised to find the Journal and Browse were all using the favourite-emblem badge for their toolbar ;-) |
| 14:57 |
walterbender |
good point |
| 15:00 |
silbe |
garycmartin: apropos Journal icons, did you have some time to work on the Backup / Restore ones? |
| 15:00 |
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| 15:01 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: Regarding the create/modify activity icon discussions, I've been thinking it leaks into the idea of preferences/options/config depending how flexible the create/modify features are. Example, Abacus seems more like a set of preferences for customising the abacus, where as Memorize goes much deeper in creative flexibility. |
| 15:02 |
|
silbe: sorry, no. Some what sidelined, but I did dig out the folder with the previous work, sitting on my desktop awaiting action ;-) |
| 15:02 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: it seems to be configure the activity (Abacus), create new content for the activity (Memorize), modify the activity itself (Turtle Art) |
| 15:04 |
silbe |
garycmartin: thanks! It's not high priority, but I feel a bit bad about the current state of Backup / Restore. They're not as "user-friendly" as I'd like them to be. Better icons would at least make them look a tad nicer. ;) |
| 15:05 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: I wonder which, or how many of these would fit a standard icon to use in all cases. The activity icon with a sparkle motif in one corner seems like the correct 'New content" but that would be activity specific (something to describe in the HIG, and perhaps provide a template for). |
| 15:05 |
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| 15:05 |
garycmartin |
silbe: Agreed, I'll try and shimmy them up my todo list. |
| 15:06 |
silbe |
garycmartin: great! |
| 15:06 |
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| 15:07 |
walterbender |
is not sure which icon you mean... the one that looks like the Etoy's icon? Doesn't mean much to me. |
| 15:07 |
jt4sugar |
Hi sorry to interupt did design start at 10amest or at 11 |
| 15:07 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: can't remember if I posted a link to Memorize with the cog icon for create/modify toolbar. |
| 15:07 |
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#link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/U[…]misation_features |
| 15:08 |
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walterbender: in that mockup, to the right of the cog is the memorize activity icon with a spark in the bottom right corner. |
| 15:10 |
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walterbender: I've used it in this mockup to start playing a new game, not as erase all quiz content and let me build a new set of questions, something else to worry about confusing... |
| 15:12 |
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jt4sugar: Hi! Sorry we started 30min early as walterbender needs to leave soon, but we can back track if needed. Officially we should have started 11min ago. |
| 15:14 |
jt4sugar |
We were meeting after yours just hadnt heard back from Christian exact time would be 12est then-thanks |
| 15:16 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: how do you feel about your TA/TB import and export icon use (the send to friend style design)? Gonzalo would seem to dislike re-using that metaphor. |
| 15:16 |
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| 15:17 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: I am not married to them... but they were the best of what we had to choose from at the moment |
| 15:17 |
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| 15:18 |
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| 15:18 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: I have a secondary problem too: sometimes I am loading from the Journal... sometimes from the filesystem |
| 15:18 |
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| 15:18 |
igod |
= dogi on the phone ... |
| 15:18 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: Oooh, what's the filesystem case? Is this to do with running in Gnome desktop? |
| 15:19 |
walterbender |
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:TAimport.png is an example |
| 15:19 |
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loading sample code |
| 15:19 |
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| 15:19 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: loading sample code NOT from the Journal? |
| 15:20 |
walterbender |
yes |
| 15:20 |
garycmartin |
tut, tut... ;-) |
| 15:20 |
walterbender |
we never resolved that issue |
| 15:20 |
silbe |
garycmartin: have we decided on what to do with activity-shipped example entries yet? |
| 15:20 |
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or distro shipped even |
| 15:21 |
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| 15:21 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: how about considering a Journal feature that allows importing/exporting filesystem objects (would be considered an advanced feature). This way we solve it for all activities. |
| 15:23 |
|
this goes back to discussions years back about allowing the Journal to browse the base FS. |
| 15:23 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: I am not sure how it would work... |
| 15:23 |
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garycmartin: but meanwhile, I needed something for TA/TB. |
| 15:23 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: what is your use case where the Sugar Journal is not good enough? |
| 15:24 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: at one point I copied objects into the Journal on install, but that generated spam. Now I only copy the objects in once they have been used. |
| 15:25 |
|
garycmartin: with TA, I'd be creating on the order of 50 new objects in your Journal that you didn't create yourself... verboden, I thought |
| 15:25 |
silbe |
garycmartin: we already have that: the Journal view for storage media, copy-to-journal, copy-from-journal. Are you talking about showing a view for the root fs? |
| 15:25 |
walterbender |
silbe: so the idea would be to copy the same to the Journal from some Journal interface, not from the activity itself? |
| 15:26 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: sorry, do these icons just add the stubb python code into the Journal, or do they raise a fs browser of some kind? |
| 15:26 |
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| 15:26 |
silbe |
walterbender: don't know. I just listed what's already then, to get a clearer view on what garycmartin might want to do. |
| 15:26 |
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s/then/there/ |
| 15:26 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: I have two directories full of sample code: python customization code and sample projects |
| 15:27 |
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garycmartin: when you select the python icon with the arrow on the toolbar (http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:TAimport.png) you get a filesystem chooser to select Python code |
| 15:28 |
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once you select it, it is loaded into your program and into the Journal |
| 15:28 |
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same with the TA project code |
| 15:28 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: could you net present these as a set of projects/templates within TA to choose from (like Pippy has it's side bar tree view, and Memorize has it's drop down list of sample quiz games)? |
| 15:28 |
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(net -> not) |
| 15:29 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: I suppose I could, but frankly, I find those interfaces much more clumsy than a chooser. |
| 15:29 |
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and they don't make it any easier for customization by the end user |
| 15:30 |
garycmartin |
another example EToys and it's startup 'pick a project or start a new one' type thing. |
| 15:30 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: I could do something more visual, like that... |
| 15:32 |
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garycmartin: I'll still need a toolbar icon to invoke it :) |
| 15:34 |
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| 15:35 |
garycmartin |
silbe: re Journal view for storage media, yes that was just the kind of flow I was thinking could work for folks who need to pull in data form non Journal workflows (nice for VM users as well). Would require a widget for getting to the 'root fs' as you put it, needs some thought not to be scary and overcomplicate the Journal UI (i.e. I'd not want to show the bottom volume bar all the time just so local volume/s could be accessed). |
| 15:35 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: I'll have to think about it and make some sketches |
| 15:36 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: I could go for a standard toolbar visual for invoking a gallery of demos/templates! ;-) |
| 15:36 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: not sure why it would be so different from a local volume button along side the removeable volume buttons that appear |
| 15:37 |
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garycmartin: +1 to the new visual (regardless of how the activity invokes it) |
| 15:37 |
garycmartin |
walterbender: re 'not sure why it would be so different from...' No I agree, it should not be so different, but eating that bottom area of the Journal with a tray all the time just to show root fs seems way too nerdy/hacky for 99.9 of our target users. |
| 15:38 |
silbe |
garycmartin: we should should show it the same way we show the other file system (storage media) views. Using a secondary toolbar (at the top) instead of the bottom toolbar might be an idea if you don't want it to take up space all the time. |
| 15:39 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: not so sure... perhaps it wouldn't be there for XO users without GNOME switching enabled, but I think most VM users would want it |
| 15:39 |
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| 15:40 |
garycmartin |
#action mockup some ideas on a system standard Activity toolbar visual for raising a gallery of demo/template projects (e.g TA/TB, Memorize, EToys, Abacus). |
| 15:41 |
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walterbender: most VM users are not our target users... They are us nerds, geeks, hackers. |
| 15:41 |
dogi_ |
garycmartin, +1 |
| 15:41 |
walterbender |
garycmartin: not sure about that down the road... might be the way lots of kids get access... easier than SoaS |
| 15:41 |
silbe |
garycmartin: not trying to divert the discussion, but we should think a bit more about the examples "problem" some time. I don't think any of the existing solutions (copy entries on first start, use file system chooser, show side bar) is particularly elegant. Maybe we should investigate the Action View vs. Object View split of the HIG a bit more and work on that. E.g. we'd show the individual examples in the Object View and an "added example |
| 15:41 |
dogi_ |
and hopefully some knowledged teachers |
| 15:42 |
walterbender |
silbe: yes... I agree that the current set of options for examples are all less than satisfactory |
| 15:44 |
|
has to run... |
| 15:45 |
silbe |
walterbender: cu |
| 15:47 |
garycmartin |
silbe: the 'examples problem' would be a good one to resolve a standard for, a number of activities try to do this in different ways. If only we had a chooser that showed nice (developer selected) thumbnails of examples/projects/demos/content. I guess the other option I missed is the Record/Browse tray UI. This could make a rather nice standard way to select both Journal objects (as in Record), and locally baked in objects/data... |
| 15:48 |
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waves to walterbender |
| 15:48 |
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| 15:49 |
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alsroot_away is now known as alsroot |
| 15:49 |
garycmartin |
silbe: did you see Christian appear and then disappear again a while back? |
| 15:50 |
silbe |
garycmartin: an Object Chooser lookalike for in-activity use (accessing a local file system directory instead of the Journal) might be another idea, yep. |
| 15:50 |
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garycmartin: yes, I did. 15:21 - 15:26 UTC. |
| 15:51 |
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maybe he got called away? |
| 15:51 |
garycmartin |
silbe: thanks, just worried my irc connection might have been split. |
| 15:52 |
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| 15:54 |
silbe |
garycmartin: should we finish the meeting? |
| 15:55 |
garycmartin |
#action consider implications of allowing access to root fs via the Journal bottom tray (as is now done for external devices) |
| 15:55 |
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silbe: Guess so, there is another meeting next up I think. |
| 15:56 |
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Same time, same place next week! |
| 15:56 |
silbe |
garycmartin: +1 |
| 15:56 |
garycmartin |
#endmeeting |
| 15:56 |
meeting |
Meeting ended Sun Apr 10 15:56:48 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 15:56 |
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Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-10T14:41:44.html |
| 15:56 |
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Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-04-10T14:41:44 |
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