Time |
Nick |
Message |
16:04 |
meeting |
Meeting started Tue Mar 15 16:04:05 2011 UTC. The chair is christianmarcsch. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
16:04 |
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Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting |
16:04 |
jtmengel |
JT4sugar, mike just sat back down |
16:04 |
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and he's logging in now |
16:04 |
christianmarcsch |
thanks everyone for joining |
16:04 |
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i assume you saw the agenda i sent last night |
16:04 |
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did anyone have any changes to the agenda? |
16:05 |
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if not, let's start with the discussion of top objectives! |
16:05 |
JT4sugar |
Good by me |
16:05 |
christianmarcsch |
so, just to start where we left off during the skype call |
16:05 |
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i had mentioned three areas of focus: |
16:05 |
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icarito <icarito!~icaro190.143.81.211> has joined #sugar-meeting |
16:05 |
christianmarcsch |
(1) the educational proposition |
16:06 |
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(2) clear instructions for downloading and installing the software |
16:06 |
dogi |
christianmarcsch, wanted to add a point ... |
16:06 |
christianmarcsch |
(3) focus on the community (mainly teachers, but potentially also children) |
16:06 |
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dogi: sure |
16:06 |
dogi |
if we have time on the end maybe |
16:06 |
christianmarcsch |
dogi: go ahead |
16:07 |
SeanDaly |
remember, Marketlab study is gold mine for recommendations |
16:07 |
dogi |
(last) sugar over VNC and how to add this to our webpage |
16:07 |
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16:08 |
christianmarcsch |
dogi: yes, great point. i think that falls into area (2) that i just listed |
16:08 |
dogi |
ok |
16:08 |
christianmarcsch |
how does everyone think about the list? what additional areas should we be thinking about? is the order correct? |
16:09 |
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we want to try to get at the main objectives that the new website should be designed to fulfill |
16:09 |
SeanDaly |
i think we need to add: how to treat problem of disjointed domains (fragmented site) |
16:09 |
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CanoeBerry <CanoeBerry!~CanoeBerrc-66-30-2-16.hsd1.ma.comcast.net> has joined #sugar-meeting |
16:09 |
RITSteve |
We tried to take a swipe at the main objectives with the strawman we put up |
16:10 |
SeanDaly |
remember Christian we had worked together on a standard toolbar for all SL "sites" |
16:10 |
christianmarcsch |
SeanDaly: yes, a great area to focus on. we had concepts around a unified navbar that never quite materialized |
16:10 |
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RITSteve: could you summarize for the group please? |
16:10 |
SeanDaly |
yes navbar |
16:10 |
jtmengel |
SeanDaly, yeah, seconded |
16:10 |
JT4sugar |
christianmarcsch, Fundrasing-Pushing that we are education Non-profit for driving initiatives forward probably falls into #1 |
16:10 |
SeanDaly |
greets CanoeBerry |
16:11 |
RITSteve |
We put up a google doc that was kind of a who, why, how approach as a splash page |
16:11 |
jtmengel |
document link: https://docs.google.com/docume[…]GBzRqrGWsOP5VgBEg |
16:11 |
christianmarcsch |
JT4sugar: that is a great point as well. i would actually separate that out--it could become it's own area of the site |
16:12 |
marcmertens |
this may fall under (1), but as an outsider to your group - it was not easy to grasp that there is a larger vision behind sugar than powering olpcs. |
16:12 |
SeanDaly |
a related point to JTSugar's : fundraising callout can help us fight perception that we are a for-profit startup |
16:12 |
RITSteve |
So the idea was to show the concept in images across all platforms, provide a quick paragraph or two on each meta topic (Who?, etc) and then point folks to links to give the the details or direct them to specificaly hat they needed |
16:13 |
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what, not hat :-) |
16:13 |
christianmarcsch |
marcmertens: yes, that seems to go under (1) -- the educational vision. could also include mention of the olpc project and where sugar originated |
16:14 |
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RITSteve: i like the What/Why/How breakdown--that will really help us organize the information on the site |
16:14 |
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RITSteve: seems to me like a "meta" principle of sorts |
16:14 |
JT4sugar |
RITSteve, I agree brings level of clarity that we need |
16:14 |
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16:15 |
christianmarcsch |
SeanDaly: yes, that is an important point to make clear |
16:15 |
jtmengel |
yea the goal was to have a hub of common topics to make it accessible - I think this plays into objective (1) well |
16:15 |
mikedevine |
and that takes care of how to break down the info depending on who views it- what/why/how is pretty universal, whether you're a teacher or a student |
16:15 |
RITSteve |
THis was created as a concept for either the "mini" site ofr the top level of the new Sugar site, whichever made sense |
16:15 |
christianmarcsch |
jtmengel: can you elaborate on hub of common topics? |
16:16 |
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mikedevine: definitely agree with you on that |
16:16 |
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mikedevine: we need a way to structure the information based on the questions people would have coming to the site |
16:16 |
satellit-gn3 |
i sent an possible outline to marketing lists today also |
16:16 |
SeanDaly |
for reference, Marketlab study wiki link is: https://sites.google.com/site/marketlabsugar/ |
16:17 |
mikedevine |
well the forums would help a lot with that- we can have relevant pages, but i think a lot of the content might be well-served as links to a better-structured wiki and/or forum topics |
16:17 |
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because that avoids redundancy |
16:17 |
christianmarcsch |
RITSteve: when you say show the concept in images, what do you mean? |
16:17 |
mikedevine |
which is pretty prevalent on the current site |
16:17 |
jtmengel |
I see the splash page as a 'hub' in so far as it's a place where everything Sugar meets up, with links to the various parts of the site |
16:18 |
mikedevine |
i.e., when i was compiling the list of content for our design, i noticed a lot of overlap between content on the site and content on the wiki |
16:18 |
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so integrating those two more tightly- plus the forums where applicable- would be a must |
16:18 |
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and it actually makes everyone's jobs easier too |
16:18 |
JT4sugar |
christianmarcsch, Do we add a "Who" portion to point out the community already in place? |
16:18 |
christianmarcsch |
mikedevine: yes, a must. this related to SeanDaly's point about unifying all domains at the hub level |
16:18 |
SeanDaly |
jtmengel: as corollary to "hub", visitors need to be able to climb out of subdomains once they arrive there |
16:19 |
mikedevine |
i think "who" would fall under the "what" |
16:19 |
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the "what" includes community, so that can go there theoretically |
16:19 |
JT4sugar |
mikedevine, Makes sense |
16:19 |
mikedevine |
and of course other pages could reference that where needed |
16:19 |
walterbender |
as a side project, we could add a bit more structure to the wiki's user-facing pages, e.g., the Activities/ pages. |
16:20 |
christianmarcsch |
SeanDaly: yes, we need a way to also get people to come back to the hub page from subdomains |
16:20 |
jtmengel |
christianmarcsch, RITSteve ran out of the room momentarily but if I would, I'd say that by 'concept in images' he means to join visual cues / multimedia with topics |
16:20 |
mikedevine |
so a user could bounce around between "what", "who" and "how" at the sub-hub level, without realizing how much they're jumping around |
16:20 |
walterbender |
if someone designed a template, we could adopt it as the top page for all of the activities |
16:20 |
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and not worry about that on the main (static) site |
16:20 |
mikedevine |
i think all good sites are able to do that, to let the user carve out a path for themselves in their site, but without getting lost in the process |
16:20 |
christianmarcsch |
jtmengel: thanks, that makes sense. i'll record that as another "meta" principle--to provide more visual cues rather than the current text-heavy experience |
16:21 |
mikedevine |
i think every page is up for modification |
16:21 |
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if we decide to change it, great, but if it's good, thats great too |
16:21 |
SeanDaly |
walterbender: an historical concern of mine is that we have more than one search engine and each one doesn't indicate that it is partial |
16:21 |
mikedevine |
but every page should be put under the magnifying glass |
16:21 |
christianmarcsch |
mikedevine: agree |
16:21 |
SeanDaly |
wiki, activities.sugarlabs.org ("ASLO") |
16:22 |
satellit-gn3 |
different subpages depending on beginner/user/teacher? (from main page) |
16:22 |
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m_anish is now known as m_anish_afk |
16:22 |
mikedevine |
i think there's a bit of conflict with the activities page- the devs say it's the only page we like |
16:22 |
RITSteve |
had to duck out and will be out for a little while and then back, sorry |
16:22 |
christianmarcsch |
JT4sugar: to your point about the "who" portion--yes, that would a great way to address the community level |
16:22 |
mikedevine |
have there been any complints from non-devs about the structure of it? |
16:22 |
christianmarcsch |
marcmertens: did you have any thoughts on a potential community aspect of the site? |
16:24 |
mikedevine |
i think for the community aspect, thr forums would be the crux |
16:24 |
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we discussed that with john last week |
16:24 |
walterbender |
SeanDaly: I don't see how we can eliminate ASLO or the wiki Activities pages. But maybe we can include them in the mainsite search somehow and make a clear path back to the main site as part of every wiki page and ASLO page??? |
16:24 |
christianmarcsch |
mikedevine: as far as ASLO, i think that falls into bucket #2. maybe we could broaden it to be more generally about how to get the most out of the software |
16:25 |
SeanDaly |
walterbender: sorry I'm not at all saying eliminate - I'm sayin we need to address problem of separate search engines (counter-intuitive) |
16:25 |
marcmertens |
i'm seeing two sides to the community. core audience is developers. but there is also a user community (aka students) which we are looking at as a great asset for communication the vision of sugar - maybe even fundraise? |
16:25 |
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the teacher would also fall into the category of user from that perspective. |
16:26 |
SeanDaly |
marcmertens: MIT Sloan Marketlab study showed that teachers are disoriented by technical orientation of site |
16:26 |
dogi |
SeanDaly, +1 |
16:26 |
JT4sugar |
walterbender, Can links be added to ASLO activities download site for How to Videos of activities, floss manual, etc. one stop shop for everything to do with Activity |
16:26 |
christianmarcsch |
marcmertens: yes, that makes a lot of sense. developers should be part of the community section--how to participate in the project |
16:27 |
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is there perhaps a general "get involved" section? |
16:27 |
dogi |
and www.sugarlabs.org should address mostly teachers |
16:27 |
JT4sugar |
dogi, +1 |
16:27 |
christianmarcsch |
"getting involved" could include ways to donate, as well as participating in other ways (as a teacher, developer, etc.) |
16:27 |
mikedevine |
i think if there's any group that may need their own path through the site, it's devs |
16:28 |
walterbender |
SeanDaly: my point is that we don't have the resources to centralize (and make static) the ever evolving activities documentation - so essential to our users - but if part of the design is to somehow integrate its access through a common search and a common visual look, we may be able to provide a bit more clarity to our users. |
16:28 |
mikedevine |
so i think keeping the dev-relevant content separate from the rest is something to address |
16:28 |
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not necessarily a separate site- but arranging the structure so they don't clash |
16:28 |
dogi |
activities.sl.o is address all users ... |
16:29 |
christianmarcsch |
let's focus the discussion briefly around the educational section |
16:29 |
dogi |
mikedevine, wiki.slo is for developer? |
16:29 |
christianmarcsch |
we talked about project origins and the larger vision |
16:29 |
mikedevine |
so we just need to sort out the content based on who it's relevant to, and structure the site based on that in the context of who/what/how |
16:29 |
christianmarcsch |
what other aspects are there that we should address? |
16:29 |
SeanDaly |
walterbender: yes, quite - this is what christianmarcsch & I had worked on with common navbar. If search can be integrated (or at the very least clearly labeled as local), we will help first/infrequent visitors |
16:29 |
mikedevine |
*what/why/how |
16:29 |
christianmarcsch |
#topic educational proposition |
16:30 |
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for instance, do we have any data or studies on how sugar is improving children's educational experience? |
16:30 |
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testimonials from teachers, etc. |
16:31 |
mikedevine |
so do we consolidate the educational aspects into a page, or spread it around pages as it's relevant to each party? |
16:31 |
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alsroot is now known as alsroot_away |
16:31 |
christianmarcsch |
mikedevine: for now let's not assume pages yet--let's first discuss more generally, then we can later think about how to incorporate |
16:31 |
satellit-gn3 |
case studies... |
16:32 |
christianmarcsch |
satellit-gn3: do you know if we have any materials we can already leverage for case studies? |
16:32 |
SeanDaly |
christianmarcsch: Gerald Ardito dissertation... |
16:32 |
sverma |
picture=1000 words. Be sure to have pictures of children using Sugar. |
16:32 |
mikedevine |
well a quick youtube search turned up mostly keynotes, not much in the way of actual cases of user interaction |
16:32 |
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i think videos are even more valuable here |
16:33 |
christianmarcsch |
sverma: agreed--we'll get to imagery in a few minutes |
16:33 |
marcmertens |
SeanDaly: a differentiation between first-time and regular visitor strikes me as key. new visitors get a visual-marketing oriented view, case studies, results, maybe even featured student/teacher stories. |
16:33 |
satellit_ |
take examples from http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]on_channels#Blogs |
16:33 |
SeanDaly |
marcmertens: +1 |
16:33 |
JT4sugar |
christianmarcsch, Getting across as part of Educational proposition that we are an Educational non-profit here is super important helps with fundraising and garnering more community support. Key recommendation from MarketLab study |
16:33 |
marcmertens |
returning visitors have a easy pathway deep into the community resources. |
16:33 |
christianmarcsch |
marcmertens: a great point to add to our section of "meta" principles |
16:34 |
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JT4sugar: noted, and agreed |
16:34 |
jtmengel |
marcmertens: +1 |
16:34 |
christianmarcsch |
SeanDaly: would it be possible to distill Gerald's dissertation into a high-level summary, and then link to the full resource? |
16:35 |
SeanDaly |
christianmarcsch: re case study, there was Gardner pilot report |
16:35 |
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christianmarcsch: let's ask Gerald |
16:35 |
walterbender |
there is lots of material in Spanish as well from .uy, .pe, and .py |
16:35 |
christianmarcsch |
SeanDaly: great--these are good references to look at during our session on Friday |
16:35 |
JT4sugar |
christianmarcsch, I should be able to check with Gerald on that |
16:35 |
christianmarcsch |
JT4sugar: thanks |
16:36 |
SeanDaly |
christianmarcsch: however, the "missing link" here would be case study from large (or small) OLPC deployment |
16:36 |
christianmarcsch |
SeanDaly: could you pls send links to the Gardner pilot report and Gerald's dissertation after the meeting? |
16:36 |
SeanDaly |
walterbender: is Gardner report online? |
16:37 |
christianmarcsch |
SeanDaly: yes, that would actually be very relevant |
16:37 |
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bernie: would you have access to any such materials from the deployments? |
16:38 |
SeanDaly |
mikedevine: re videos, the SL video channel is here: http://www.dailymotion.com/sugarlabs |
16:38 |
sverma |
looking at http://Kiva.org ...clean and welcoming. Its visual, and has important info up front. |
16:38 |
JT4sugar |
christianmarcsch, For new users to the site I think seeing is believing! That's why new OLPC site is so powerful |
16:38 |
christianmarcsch |
sverma: yes, a great reference that we should all look at |
16:38 |
sverma |
if we think hook, line, sinker then the hook has to be effective. Otherwise the other stuff may never get read! |
16:39 |
christianmarcsch |
sverma: i'll assign everyone the task to send links to "analogous" web sites before our meeting on friday, so we can review them in the morning |
16:39 |
mikedevine |
sverma: jt and i were discussing how to structure each section, and we like that site's layout |
16:39 |
jtmengel |
(that site being kiva.org) |
16:39 |
christianmarcsch |
JT4sugar: absolutely--powerful imagery is key to creating engagement |
16:40 |
mikedevine |
we're thinking for each section after the splash page, the click-throughs, of structuring the content as "mini-hubs", where returning users would use that as their bookmark instead of the splash page |
16:40 |
christianmarcsch |
any other comments for the education section? |
16:40 |
mikedevine |
and that structure on kiva looks like a good fit for some of the "hubs", i.e. the student and maybe parent hubs, as far as layout is concerned |
16:40 |
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and it looks technically easy to do too |
16:41 |
christianmarcsch |
satellit_: thanks for the link to examples |
16:41 |
mikedevine |
well if there's a need to generate more content for the education section... |
16:41 |
satellit-gn3 |
: ) |
16:41 |
mikedevine |
at rit we have several groups who focus on generating content similar to what would work well on this siye |
16:41 |
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so we could maybe look into recruiting them to help generate new content |
16:41 |
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but that's a whole other pie right there |
16:42 |
walterbender |
SeanDaly: ^ gardner report, I'll look... it wasn't so compelling though, as I recall. |
16:42 |
JT4sugar |
SeanDaly, Think we need to have more comprehensive How to and Tutorial videos. Daily motion videos are just little snippets-could be longer and more engaging |
16:42 |
mikedevine |
we can dicuss that sort of topic at the actual dev meeting |
16:42 |
christianmarcsch |
mikedevine: let's discuss more on friday |
16:42 |
mikedevine |
yeah |
16:42 |
christianmarcsch |
great, let's move on to the next section |
16:42 |
mikedevine |
we already have enough to type about today, my hand's starting to hurt |
16:42 |
SeanDaly |
christianmarcsch: teacher buy-in essential for Sugar adoption, esp. on non-OLPC machines. Intel Learning Series very teacher-oriented |
16:42 |
christianmarcsch |
#topic learning about the Sugar software |
16:42 |
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SeanDaly: thanks |
16:43 |
satellit_ |
need to incorporate http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]Kit#Floss_Manuals |
16:43 |
SeanDaly |
JT4sugar: not only do we need videos, we need people to make 'em :D |
16:43 |
christianmarcsch |
so, for the software section i have two main points: |
16:43 |
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(1) instructions for installing sugar (incl. VNC) |
16:43 |
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16:43 |
mikedevine |
seandaly: hence the discussion we can have on friday about that |
16:43 |
christianmarcsch |
(2) installing/finding activities (ASLO) |
16:43 |
mikedevine |
lots of opportunities there |
16:44 |
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16:44 |
mikedevine |
so how do we want to convey that? |
16:44 |
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video tutorials? faq's? |
16:44 |
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a combination? |
16:44 |
christianmarcsch |
mikedevine: video tutorials would be great |
16:44 |
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16:44 |
mikedevine |
also how does that vary between each section? i.e. i assume it'll be explained much differently to a student than a teacher |
16:44 |
christianmarcsch |
mikedevine: my only concern with video in general are the higher production values |
16:45 |
satellit_ |
problem is it is different in different community distributions of sugar |
16:45 |
JT4sugar |
satellit-gn3, Langauge in Creation Kit should be walked down to man on the street level(from a technical point of view) for someone who is not a command line expert. Screenshot tutorial on how to? |
16:45 |
christianmarcsch |
mikedevine: but if we can generate the materials, then that would be terrific |
16:45 |
mikedevine |
well for instructional purposes, production values don't factor in as much |
16:45 |
jtmengel |
I think that videos are excellent tools, however they would be difficult if you do not share the video's language |
16:45 |
mikedevine |
i mean we can do that up here on our own |
16:45 |
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just using screengrabs and narration |
16:45 |
SeanDaly |
christianmarcsch: ironically, I have all the gear to make great video (4 Power Macs, 3 DV cams), just not the time :-( |
16:45 |
mikedevine |
so if we want videos, we can make that happen here |
16:45 |
christianmarcsch |
jtmengel: a good point--perhaps we could use more diagramatic means to communicate how to install? |
16:46 |
SeanDaly |
christianmarcsch: however I have struggled with tech difficulty of screencap software |
16:46 |
christianmarcsch |
SeanDaly: but good to know that you have the gear...! |
16:46 |
jtmengel |
christianmarcsch, i think that would be a viable solution, especially with plentiful illustrations and images to accompany the guide |
16:46 |
SeanDaly |
christianmarcsch: Final Cut Pro, ProTools.. |
16:46 |
christianmarcsch |
i'll make a note of the use of diagrams/illustration to communicate to a broad multilingual audience |
16:47 |
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any other aspects to the software itself that we need to convey? |
16:47 |
jtmengel |
christianmarcsch i would be very interested in that :-) |
16:47 |
mikedevine |
i think we should focus on what each group needs |
16:47 |
satellit_ |
branch web site by language and user level from first page? |
16:47 |
mikedevine |
students need different information than parents in a how to guide |
16:47 |
SeanDaly |
christianmarcsch: Sugar is "platform-agnostic" one of our key claims |
16:47 |
christianmarcsch |
satellit_: you raise a very important point--what to do about localization |
16:48 |
mikedevine |
well we can make different videos for each platform |
16:48 |
satellit_ |
VirtualBox is agnostic! |
16:48 |
mikedevine |
well as far as that goes: |
16:48 |
walterbender |
Spanish of course should be a priority as it represents 75% of our users |
16:48 |
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dogi: we should run one of the treehouse VMs in .es |
16:48 |
SeanDaly |
christianmarcsch: Marketlab recommended one-button pancake installer, but it's a bit trickier than that... why vids essential I think to assist |
16:49 |
mikedevine |
if we use text in the videos and not narration, we can try and arrange it so after the fact, we can have the text content translated |
16:49 |
christianmarcsch |
walterbender: we really need a multilingual solution for the new site, to at the very least address spanish as well as english |
16:49 |
walterbender |
christianmarcsch: absolutely |
16:49 |
JT4sugar |
christianmarcsch, I think we can get a list of the most important How to's from a Teachers point of view from Gerald(Educational and Technical) Then make them audience specific-Teacher, parent, student |
16:49 |
christianmarcsch |
mikedevine: that's true--we could use captioning |
16:50 |
mikedevine |
so the video translation is separate from the rest of the site as far as our approach |
16:50 |
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which is good |
16:50 |
christianmarcsch |
JT4sugar: that's a great idea. let's reach out to Gerald about that |
16:50 |
JT4sugar |
christianmarcsch, Will do |
16:50 |
SeanDaly |
mikedevine: re subtitle internationalization: check out http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/ |
16:50 |
christianmarcsch |
so if there aren't any additional sections to add for software, let's briefly talk about "community" |
16:51 |
|
#topic community |
16:51 |
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for this area, are we thinking of forums for each audience segment (developers, teachers, students)? |
16:51 |
mikedevine |
again, i think the crux of the community section will be the forums |
16:51 |
|
yeah |
16:52 |
christianmarcsch |
marcmertens: is that what you also had in mind? |
16:52 |
marcmertens |
i'm interested in the community as a marketing mechanism for sugar. |
16:52 |
|
i agree that the nuts and bolts will happen in the forum |
16:52 |
walterbender |
we have a developer forum already: #sugar |
16:52 |
christianmarcsch |
marcmertens: can you explain more your thinking? |
16:53 |
marcmertens |
but there is huge opportunity to engage a large audience with the project if we pull the right pieces of content out of the community |
16:53 |
walterbender |
a teacher forum would be great!!! |
16:53 |
christianmarcsch |
marcmertens: agreed |
16:53 |
marcmertens |
kiva was a great example of getting the public exposed to the results of the program. |
16:53 |
christianmarcsch |
walterbender: yes, that would be fantastic |
16:53 |
marcmertens |
i see real people & I see their progress. |
16:53 |
JT4sugar |
As I have brought up for teachers it must be segemented into Grade level/Age level so they will take time to engage |
16:54 |
SeanDaly |
JT4sugar: good point |
16:54 |
christianmarcsch |
JT4sugar: noted |
16:54 |
marcmertens |
i have an opening to contribute - and am now hooked to stay in touch and find out how 'my entrepreneur' (or in sugar's case, my student or teacher) is doing. |
16:54 |
mikedevine |
and of course the forums would be segmented for students/teachers/parents/devs |
16:54 |
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so everyone essentially gets their own forum, so to speak |
16:54 |
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so content gets sorted that way |
16:55 |
christianmarcsch |
do we want to create a forum for students and parents as well, or first focus on developers and teachers |
16:55 |
mikedevine |
well everyone would have sections |
16:55 |
christianmarcsch |
we should at least have a link to the developer forum from the "front door" site |
16:55 |
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16:56 |
christianmarcsch |
i'm concerned about security when it comes to students--does anyone have experience with that aspect? would we need moderation? |
16:56 |
sverma |
when sorting forums, pages, sites, I would suggest we keep it "Activity based" (sound familiar?) as opposed to platform-based (wiki, etc) or role based... |
16:56 |
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16:56 |
mikedevine |
implementing forums is easy, so we can create the forums, then focus on structuring content within each section of the frums |
16:56 |
satellit_ |
nice web page example: http://trisquel.info/en |
16:56 |
SeanDaly |
mikedevine: sorting may be trickier than it seems... often, a teacher's "why can't I do X" requires an answer from devs... however these questions useful for devs to become aware of classroom needs |
16:56 |
walterbender |
christianmarcsch: I think we need to do child to child in walled gardens with teachers present |
16:56 |
mikedevine |
well the forum solution i found has solutions for mods/admins |
16:56 |
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16:56 |
mikedevine |
here's the link to the feature set: |
16:57 |
christianmarcsch |
walterbender: that makes sense |
16:57 |
mikedevine |
http://www.phpbb.com/about/features/index.php |
16:57 |
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it has loads of features for moderating and admining the forums |
16:57 |
christianmarcsch |
ok, since we only have a few minutes left |
16:57 |
JT4sugar |
Forums for kids to upload and share Sugar work/projects(teacher approved) so parents can see might be an idea |
16:57 |
mikedevine |
and it's free and open-source, which meshes well with sugar labs' philosophy |
16:57 |
christianmarcsch |
we've already addressed most of the agenda points |
16:58 |
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i am wondering about imagery |
16:58 |
dogi |
walterbender, sure have already one running .es |
16:58 |
christianmarcsch |
what do we have available, what should we produce, how do we communicate the value prop for sugar through visual means? |
16:58 |
sverma |
mapping workflow of "customers" be it students, teachers ,parents or devs will be important |
16:58 |
christianmarcsch |
#topic imagery |
16:59 |
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sverma: +1 |
16:59 |
jtmengel |
this brings up the question of: shall we try to generate images/illustrations or would we prefer utilizing what pictures exist? |
16:59 |
mikedevine |
well whatever we have, we should either post on the google docs, or link to it from with a file on the google docs, so we can all see what we already have to work with |
16:59 |
|
then we can all see what gaps we need to fill w/ new content |
16:59 |
christianmarcsch |
jtmengel: that is what i wanted to get at. i know that we already have a growing repository of imagery from the field, it would be great to tap into that |
17:00 |
mikedevine |
and that's something that i feel is easier to discuss in person, with all our imagery in front of us |
17:00 |
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17:00 |
christianmarcsch |
how about communicating the benefits of sugar through imagery? |
17:00 |
SeanDaly |
sverma: some websites ask visitors to self-select e.g.: "Sugar for teachers", "Sugar for developers"... |
17:00 |
mikedevine |
so if we spend between now and the meeting collecting content on the google docs, we can lookat it together and evaluate what we have and what we need |
17:00 |
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17:00 |
christianmarcsch |
SeanDaly: you had mentioned showing the XO and a generic laptop side-by-side |
17:00 |
RITSteve |
We kinda did something similar in sample images in the strawman |
17:00 |
jtmengel |
children (especially international visitors to the site) will have an easier time understanding and accessing a well made picture |
17:00 |
sverma |
I realize that while there is a push to put Sugar on all kinds of platforms, and not just XOs, don't shy away from OLPC imagery. They are SL's biggest customers yet :-) |
17:00 |
RITSteve |
One XO, One Mac, One pc |
17:01 |
SeanDaly |
christianmarcsch: yes, important to communicate Sugar can run on non-OLPC hardware; while reminding that 2 million Sugar using Learners are in the world |
17:01 |
christianmarcsch |
htmengel, sverma, RITSteve: agree |
17:01 |
mikedevine |
that's why we need to structure the site in a way that's image-friendly, not as text-based |
17:01 |
dogi |
christianmarcsch, think we can use some pictures of sugar activites enhanced with pictures of kids so that we cover the virtual and the real world with one picture |
17:01 |
mikedevine |
helps alleviate the internationalization issue |
17:01 |
sverma |
SeanDaly: My concern is that the workflow may span two domains such as devs and teachers. The segmentation of forums will keep those separate |
17:01 |
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17:01 |
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17:02 |
christianmarcsch |
SeanDaly: yes |
17:02 |
RITSteve |
I'm really goal oriented in design and task oriented in development |
17:02 |
christianmarcsch |
dogi: that's a really great idea |
17:02 |
dogi |
:) |
17:02 |
RITSteve |
I'm hoping that what comes out of the NYC meeting is a triaged approach |
17:03 |
christianmarcsch |
imagery and how to visually communicate the benefits will be a big topic for us on friday |
17:03 |
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does anyone have any last comments? |
17:03 |
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17:03 |
JT4sugar |
walterbender, Can you put out email blast to your vast network to mine for Imagery from the field? |
17:03 |
christianmarcsch |
dogi, did we address your point you raised at the beginning? |
17:03 |
SeanDaly |
christianmarcsch: for me ideal images will be looking over shoulder of kid & teacher looking at an Activity |
17:03 |
christianmarcsch |
JT4sugar: that would be great--let's pool our resources for friday so we can figure out what we have to work with |
17:03 |
RITSteve |
Immediate needs driven by the bike race, expanded content done by the end of the academic quarter when you lose Mike and JT and longer term goals like the collaboration platform that's been discusse |
17:03 |
walterbender |
JT4sugar: will send *another* such blast... |
17:03 |
dogi |
christianmarcsch, did you look in the private chat ... |
17:04 |
sverma |
another thing I've noticed about imagery is how the potential customer reacts to the image. If they see a child in "Africa" then they think its not for my kids because they go to a private school in Palo Alto, CA. |
17:04 |
jtmengel |
sverma, this is regrettably true |
17:04 |
RITSteve |
Both of RIT students have been introduced to a design paradigm called miyamotos pyramid that they'll share with you as a way they are used to looking at these things |
17:04 |
mikedevine |
well multiple images can help that |
17:05 |
sverma |
so, maybe the images should be representative of both "Africa" and the kid in Palo Alto. |
17:05 |
JT4sugar |
christianmarcsch, On Sameer's point can we have place in Teachers forums where problems can be forwarded to developer through a "suggestion/problem/feature request box" that gets sent to devs to overcome separate forum set up |
17:05 |
jtmengel |
i think that using iconic imagery can sidestep this, but I personally would sooner see pictures of that classroom in Paolo Alto beside those students across seas |
17:05 |
sverma |
mikedevine: true. Its all about perceptions in the early stages of the game. |
17:05 |
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17:06 |
christianmarcsch |
JT4sugar: yes, we need to incorporate that. at the very least an automated email form |
17:06 |
satellit_ |
help forums will need knowledgeable volunteers to man them.... |
17:06 |
sverma |
jtmengel: iconic imagery lacks the human touch...too impersonal, IMO |
17:07 |
mikedevine |
there's definitely a balance between too personal and too inpersonal |
17:07 |
RITSteve |
Imagery discussion is likely best handled friday, what types of content or functionality have we locked in on as crucial |
17:07 |
jtmengel |
sverma, I completely agree for the sake of this project |
17:07 |
christianmarcsch |
RITSteve: looking forwad to learning more about miyamotos pyramid |
17:07 |
mikedevine |
making the imagery relatable but not polarizin |
17:07 |
SeanDaly |
i agree multiple images important, not just "one great image" |
17:07 |
christianmarcsch |
SeanDaly: +1 |
17:07 |
jtmengel |
SeanDaly: +1 |
17:07 |
sverma |
JT4Sugar: I still think forums should not be segmented on the basis of role, but on the basis of task |
17:08 |
christianmarcsch |
alright everyone--i will need to break off |
17:08 |
SeanDaly |
field images will be great but important that we have releases for use of recognizable individuals |
17:08 |
christianmarcsch |
but we have covered all the agenda items and i have extensive notes that i will email to everyone after the meeting |
17:08 |
SeanDaly |
many thanks christianmarcsch! |
17:08 |
christianmarcsch |
overall i think we have a good grasp on what the site needs to do, and how to structure it |
17:08 |
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i definitely appreciate everyone's time today |
17:08 |
JT4sugar |
RIT-Mike and JT I take from comments you are in for Friday? |
17:09 |
jtmengel |
christianmarcsch, thank you for taking the time with us :-) |
17:09 |
RITSteve |
Christianmarsch: good |
17:09 |
walterbender |
two questions: |
17:09 |
christianmarcsch |
now that we have our design "brief", we can go into our working session with a more clear understanding of what needs to be accomplished |
17:09 |
walterbender |
(1) to whom should I ask that people send images for the website? |
17:09 |
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17:09 |
walterbender |
(2) when are we gathering in NYC? |
17:09 |
jtmengel |
JT4sugar, I am making arrangements to that end, I'll shoot off an email just after this |
17:09 |
mikedevine |
walterbender: i think the google docs would be food for collecting the images |
17:09 |
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everyone can see them then |
17:10 |
RITSteve |
Sorry I won't be able to join you in NYC folks, but looking forward to seeing the results |
17:10 |
mikedevine |
*good |
17:10 |
marcmertens |
Here are some community-related areas I identified that need more thinking - I will ponder before friday: (a) community experience for a new visitor to sugar - feature stories and/or user from within the sugar community (students, teachers, dev's) - potential fundraising tie in to the above (b) community experience for existing users - how do we make it fun & rewarding for students to engage in the community / forums - how we help (non-tech |
17:10 |
jtmengel |
walterbender, I would like access to the images to begin editing out assets |
17:10 |
christianmarcsch |
walterbender: they can send the images to me, and i will pool them. better yet, maybe we could create a flickr account (private for now)? |
17:11 |
JT4sugar |
christianmarcsch, After RIT guys verify Friday can you send out agenda with possible times we can interact with you after morning work session |
17:11 |
christianmarcsch |
JT4sugar: absolutely |
17:11 |
walterbender |
not sure how to set up a privite Flickr account that we announce to a public list to upload images :P |
17:11 |
SeanDaly |
marcmertens: good list |
17:11 |
christianmarcsch |
walterbender: good point :) |
17:11 |
|
walterbender: let me do a little research |
17:11 |
walterbender |
maybe ask them to upload them to the wiki and send email to christianmarcsch ? |
17:11 |
christianmarcsch |
walterbender: that would be fine, also |
17:11 |
walterbender |
OK. |
17:12 |
christianmarcsch |
walterbender: but let me do some research and let you know |
17:12 |
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so we have two tasks for friday |
17:12 |
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(1) pool all of our image assets (after we figure out storage) |
17:13 |
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(2) please send me any links to analogous websites that you think might inform the new design |
17:13 |
SeanDaly |
christianmarcsch: one final point about branding - changing logo |
17:14 |
|
color-changing logo |
17:14 |
walterbender |
christianmarcsch: do you need me to reserve a room at the SFC for Friday? |
17:14 |
SeanDaly |
arrrgh keyboard |
17:14 |
JT4sugar |
christianmarcsch, Will you inturn forward to RIT guys so they can begin to play with |
17:14 |
christianmarcsch |
SeanDaly: no worries :) |
17:14 |
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walterbender: JT4sugar will confirm the time, and then it would be great to reserve a room |
17:14 |
SeanDaly |
I mean I love how logo changes colors but I think could be good to enlarge/change palette of combos |
17:14 |
mikedevine |
it may take the rest of the quarter and several all-nighters- but i think we can pull of the color-changing logo :) |
17:15 |
christianmarcsch |
SeanDaly: we can definitely discuss that |
17:15 |
JT4sugar |
walterbender, After RIT guys confirmation I will let you know time needed |
17:15 |
SeanDaly |
mikedevine: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team/Logo |
17:15 |
christianmarcsch |
thanks again everyone--unless there are any last comments i'll go ahead and end the meeting |
17:16 |
RITSteve |
rit guys discussing transpo now |
17:16 |
SeanDaly |
thanks all |
17:16 |
christianmarcsch |
#endmeeting |
17:16 |
meeting |
Meeting ended Tue Mar 15 17:16:48 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
17:16 |
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Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-15T16:04:05.html |
17:16 |
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Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]11-03-15T16:04:05 |