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#sugar-meeting meeting, 2010-12-01 17:03:11

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17:03 meeting Meeting started Wed Dec  1 17:03:11 2010 UTC. The chair is walterbender_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:03 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
17:03 walterbender_ #topic Welcome to our new members!!
17:03 the topic says it all!!
17:03 it is great to have icarito and alsroot here
17:04 it is sad that tomeu and sean are no longer on the board, but I am sure we'll hear more from them...
17:04 will see Sean next week in Paris or Brussels
17:04 icarito thank you walter for the welcome, congratulations alsroot i liked your proposal
17:05 alsroot icarito: thanks, but it just a sketch
17:05 walterbender_ before we get into other business, I want to also: (a) thank lfaraone for running the election and (b) thank the community for participating
17:06 acaire11 <acaire11!~webchat@diabetes-3.media.mit.edu> has joined #sugar-meeting
17:06 CanoeBerry Hiua
17:06 SeanDaly <SeanDaly!~chatzilla@> has joined #sugar-meeting
17:06 walterbender_ (and congrats to cjb and CanoeBerry for getting reaffirmed as contributors)
17:06 lfaraone thanks walterbender_!
17:06 walterbender_ hey SeanDaly ... welcome back !!
17:07 cjb lfaraone: yeah, thanks!  running elections is difficult and usually thankless :-)
17:07 bernie SeanDaly: yeah, good to see you!
17:07 SeanDaly hee hee trying to fit jigsaw puzzle pieces back in place
17:07 lfaraone cjb: much appreciated. here's to hopes that next year will be more straightforward.
17:07 bernie lfaraone: thanks for running this election.
17:08 walterbender_ So, as much as I am thrilled with our current membership -- it is a strong team -- I am a bit disappointed that none of the educators were elected.
17:08 CanoeBerry and thanks to bernie & cjb for NOT resigning! wink ;)
17:08 walterbender_ but I have a proposal to address this issue...
17:09 I'd like to establish an education advisory committee to SLOBs that would be included in our discussions.
17:09 it's initial membership would naturally enough be our 4 outspoken educators who managed to divide the vote among each other
17:10 Since anyone in the community is welcome to join these meetings, in some sense, this is a redundant proposal, but I want to make it explicit
17:10 in part to reach out to a part of the community that is growing in numbers and importance to our mission
17:11 and in part to get your OK to add them to the SLOBs mailing list so that they are privy to all of our discussions
17:11 cjb yes, it sounds equivalent to suggesting that they lead the Education Team, and then inviting the Education Team to all of our meetings (which any team could already do)
17:11 .. ah, it only sounded like that up until the last line :-)
17:11 walterbender_ to add them as voting members would require a change to our bylaws, which I don't think is necessary at this stage
17:11 bernie notes that 80 people voted at these elections. not bad
17:12 SeanDaly I too was disappointed no educators elected... with all due respect to winning candidates ;-) educator views & needs vital for project
17:12 walterbender_ hasn't seen the detailed results
17:12 cjb disappointed too.
17:12 lfaraone walterbender_: if you look at the link sent to you by selectricity you can see the breakdown
17:12 walterbender_: I don't think there's a way to make it public.
17:12 walterbender_ cjb: the reason I want to make this a bit more formal is to make sure they are included in our discussions by default
17:13 icarito lfaraone, maybe copy paste ;-)
17:13 walterbender_ lfaraone: yeah.. just been busy the last couple fo days...
17:13 non stop meetings in Montevideo
17:13 icarito walterbender, explicitly, you mean gerald, rosamel, pacita and claudia?
17:13 walterbender_ and I got to meet Rosamel :)
17:14 icarito: yes...
17:14 icarito: I think they are a representative group... but we could let them come up with a means of assigning people to this role...
17:14 it could be others...
17:15 they routinely participate in the weekly education discussions...
17:15 cjb I wonder if there's a more general solution here
17:15 walterbender_ we could make it be a regular part of our meetings to get a report from the ed. team
17:15 cjb: all ears
17:15 CanoeBerry have these 4 been contacted yet asking their suggestions?
17:15 bernie looking at the detailed results, all the 9 candidates are actually very close. it's especially visible with the chart in the Borda Count method.
17:15 walterbender_ CanoeBerry: yes... all have agreed to participate
17:16 cjb like, should we be inviting members of the most prolific teams to join, regardless of which team it is
17:16 walterbender_ CanoeBerry: whether or not we add them to the SLOBs list
17:16 cjb: +1
17:17 cjb but if we were doing that, we'd probably want to make it one delegate per team
17:17 lfaraone I think http://people.sugarlabs.org/~l[…]eftables2010.html should provide a detailed breakdown of the election for those interested.
17:17 cjb so that perhaps doesn't quite achieve the same goals
17:17 walterbender_ cjb: e.g., Marketing (hint to SeanDaly)
17:17 icarito i am finding it quite interesting to look at the SLOBS mailing list archives now that I'm subscribed
17:18 cjb icarito: is there anything you think we screwed up by not talking about publicly, so far?
17:18 icarito cjb, i've only been subscribed for about an hour but i had no idea for instance about contracts for ian, luke
17:19 i'm only saying that perhaps one should not need to get elected to read thru
17:19 cjb ah, the contracts with Caroline's grant
17:19 icarito but cjb i wonder what criteria we should have for "prolific" team members
17:19 walterbender_ icarito: FYI, these contracts were specific to the GPA grant that Carolyn manages.
17:19 cjb icarito: prolific (i.e. non-dormant) teams, not members
17:19 SeanDaly I'd very much like to stay in the loop... for effective marketing to happen, I need to stay abreast of developments... also marketing strategy will be shifting and SLOBs input would be helpful...
17:20 walterbender_ SeanDaly: that would be great
17:20 cjb so it sounds like we have a couple of proposals:
17:20 walterbender_ cjb: my goal is getting a diversity of voices heard in this forum and making sure that we don't put needless barriers up for participation
17:20 cjb (a) form an education advisory group as non-voting slobs members
17:21 (b) invite a member from each active team to slobs as non-voting members
17:21 (c) make the slobs@ archives readable by everyone
17:21 walterbender_: yep, I think all the suggestions share the same goal
17:22 walterbender_ cjb: re (b) we've been a bit remiss in making sure that there are slobs on each team (and getting them to report to the committee on a regular basis)
17:22 cjb: so I like your suggestion
17:22 cjb I guess I'm not directly a fan of (a), because I think it creates a hierarchy whereby the programmers have power and the educators don't.
17:22 walterbender_ cjb: re (c) I don't think we should make the list world-readable
17:22 cjb (I say "the programmers" because SLOBs is all-programmers now.)
17:23 walterbender_ cjb: we need a place to have confidential conversations
17:23 cjb walterbender_: yes, I think I agree with that
17:23 walterbender_ cjb: that said, our new finance giuy promises to put every financial transaction on the wiki for all the world to see
17:23 cjb ooh :) who is our new finance guy?
17:23 walterbender_ cjb: Alex K.
17:24 cjb: I hope to spend some more time with him later this month getting him up to speed
17:24 cjb who's that?  :)
17:24 walterbender_ cjb: he is a former MIT admin who has volunteered to help us...
17:24 cjb: I blogged it a few weeks ago
17:25 cannot spell Alex's last name :)
17:25 cjb ah, cool
17:25 bernie knowing that this proposal greatly endangers my own chair, I'd like to add a requirement to our bylaws that elected slobs participate in board meetings. failing to participate in N meetings in a row should be reason enough to reassign their chair to the next available candidate
17:25 walterbender_ I am happy with Plan B above
17:25 CanoeBerry Khitrik
17:26 cjb so it seems like we don't want (a) or (c), unless anyone wants to argue more strongly for them?
17:26 bernie this is to prevent us from being unable to reach quorum, like this year.
17:26 walterbender_ we could invite each team to appoint some SLOB reps whom we could add the the mailing list
17:26 cjb bernie: absolutely
17:26 walterbender_ bernie: in practice, lack of a quorum was never really a problem, although we can close on many occasions
17:27 speaking of which, we need to establish a regular time for these meetings...
17:27 cjb walterbender_: but having long-term absentee SLOBs members was a problem separately, and this is a good way to measure that
17:27 lfaraone icarito: my contract is sort of frozen for the next few weeks, I've had to table it because I'm swamped with school and other commitments :(
17:27 walterbender_ cjb: agreed
17:27 cjb of course if someone *knows* they're going to be traveling for a month or whatever they can just say so
17:28 bernie: suggestion on a number of meetings to start with?
17:28 walterbender_ is traveling forever :(
17:28 CanoeBerry absentee SLOBs (who leave for several months, for valid personal reasons!) are a problem we need to address -- we need to formalize resignation / impeachment procedures so we do not girdlock here
17:28 walterbender_ let's finish the topic at hand please
17:28 cjb oh yeah
17:28 walterbender_ can we make a formal motion of (b)?
17:29 icarito walterbender, "we could invite each team to appoint some SLOB reps whom we could add the the mailing list" <- sounds good to me
17:29 alsroot walterbender_: +1 for (b)
17:29 CanoeBerry is (b) in tension with Walter's proposal to bring all 4 educators on board slobs@sl.o?
17:29 bernie cjb: I spoke with the WMF folks last month. they do only 3-4 meetings per *year*. but I couldn't figure out how they make decisions, then
17:29 walterbender_ icarito: whereas the discussion gives context to the above, I second the motion
17:30 bernie cjb: I think they probably delegate decisions to the ED and other officers
17:30 CanoeBerry icarito: yeah
17:30 bernie cjb: which, I would greatly appreciate also within Sugar Labs. we slobs are too slow to decide on things
17:30 cjb MOTION: Each active team should propose a few delegates from that team to SLOBs.  We will give the delegates read-only access to the slobs@ list, and invite them to SLOBs meetings, and rotate scheduled times during SLOBs meetings to hear reports from their team.
17:30 walterbender_ bernie: we, being a young organization, have more immediate needs.
17:30 cjb (that was a bit long)
17:30 bernie walterbender_: true.
17:30 walterbender_ cjb: why READ_ONLY?
17:31 CanoeBerry read-only??
17:31 cjb oh yeah, scratch that
17:31 was still thinking of icarito's suggestion
17:31 bernie cjb: -1. we had this situation one year ago and we decided to unsubscribe everyone to move communication to iaep@
17:31 cjb: actually, wasn't that motion from you?
17:31 cjb bernie: but did we do that?
17:31 lfaraone Ideally, we should only have things on SLOBS@ that *need* to be private.
17:32 cjb bernie: icarito's saying he's learning lots of stuff from the list
17:32 lfaraone Like, contract negotiations.
17:32 bernie cjb: ian and luke's contract contains personal info, it will never be on iaep.
17:32 cjb hm, okay
17:32 CanoeBerry I haven't found slobs@sl.o that exciting of a mailing list, seriously!
17:32 icarito +1 from me
17:32 walterbender_ it would be interesting to see how many messages were not CC'd to IAEP... prob. very few, but can someone run the numbers and report back next time?
17:32 cjb okay.. shall I just remove mention of the mailing list from the motion, then?
17:33 bernie CanoeBerry: me neither... we had some hot postings at the time of the nokia deal, though
17:33 CanoeBerry yep
17:33 bernie CanoeBerry: again, I wouldn't want to discuss that on iaep. nokia had asked us for confidentiality in that case.
17:33 acaire11 has quit IRC
17:33 bernie walterbender_: +1. maybe icarito could do that?
17:34 cjb: +1 without the ml part
17:34 walterbender_ cjb: I think that by adding them, we will ensure that they don't get left in the dark... and yet, I don't think we will be tempted to abuse the list any more than we have in the past... which again, I suspect is pretty minimal
17:34 icarito i still think active team members could request access (at least read only) to slobs archives
17:34 SeanDaly I can't think of any OEM or potential partner who would want preliminary discussions (often leading nowhere) to be public
17:34 walterbender_ CanoeBerry: the slobs list is supposed to be boring :)
17:34 bernie regarding how we spend our money, I would like to see the same level of transparency of the WMF. I was very impressed.
17:35 lfaraone icarito: "read only" doesn't mean anything.
17:35 icarito: anybody can post to SLOBs IIRC
17:35 icarito lfaraone, right
17:35 cjb REVISED MOTION: Each active team should propose a few delegates from that team to SLOBs.  We will invite the delegates to SLOBs meetings, and rotate scheduled times during SLOBs meetings to hear reports from their team.
17:35 CanoeBerry SeanDaly: exactly
17:36 icarito CanoeBerry, walterbender -  its not like slobs is cablegate :-D
17:36 alsroot CanoeBerry: how many teams we have to "Each active team should propose a few delegates"?
17:36 lfaraone bernie: maybe I'm grass-greener, but WMF has a stable platform and is well-established in its niche. SL isn't; we're still having growing pains.
17:36 bernie http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi[…]L_FOR_WEBSITE.pdf
17:36 walterbender_ cjb: OK... I will just take extra care to make sure that these people get added to all of my correspondence and I will request we consider 'teacher hours' when scheduling our meetings
17:36 alsroot CanoeBerry: in case of, are we relying on non existed stuff?
17:37 cjb walterbender_: sounds good
17:37 alsroot CanoeBerry: sorry, cjb ^
17:37 cjb alsroot: I don't know what that means, sorry
17:38 alsroot cjb: do we have many "active team" that can propose delegates
17:38 bernie lfaraone: yup. we should look at successful organizations similar to us for guidance, though
17:38 cjb alsroot: I'd say that most of the teams in the wiki sidebar are active
17:38 but many of them have overlapping members
17:38 SeanDaly At the large organizations I have worked at, the management committee always organizes briefings from teams; not just for current difficulties, but long-term view
17:38 walterbender_ alsroot: we do have an active edu team... and I want to hear from them !!
17:38 alsroot cjb: I meany mosttly about org. overkill, we can have no one who can "propose" might be
17:39 walterbender_ alsroot: and any others as well...
17:39 re SeanDaly 's comment, I will have to do a better job soliciting these reports
17:39 cjb alsroot: still don't really understand, but I don't think there'll be a large problem
17:39 icarito also we have teams and local labs
17:40 walterbender_ spends too much time hacking Turtle Art
17:40 icarito and they overlap a bit in the case of deployment team
17:40 walterbender_ icarito: yes... getting more input from these 'teams' is also important
17:41 bernie SeanDaly: +1
17:41 CanoeBerry Yes
17:41 bernie SeanDaly: would be good to have reports from all team coordinators every year or quarter
17:41 walterbender_ are we ready to vote on the current motion?
17:41 CanoeBerry What is the slobs@sl.o membership implication?
17:41 walterbender_ MOTION: Each active team should propose a few delegates from that team to SLOBs. We will invite the delegates to SLOBs meetings, and rotate scheduled times during SLOBs meetings to hear reports from their team.
17:41 bernie walterbender_: let's reissue it with the proposed edits
17:42 walterbender_ bernie: please edit
17:42 SeanDaly bernie: Yes, and at least for me would be very informative beyond day-to-day list discussions
17:42 cjb "Each active team and local lab", I guess?
17:42 bernie walterbender_: ah ok. it's already up to date
17:42 walterbender_ cjb: yes... let's add local labs explicitly
17:42 bernie walterbender_: +1 to the motion
17:43 alsroot walterbender_: what about s/(team|local lab)/community/
17:43 walterbender_ MOTION: Each active team and local lab should propose a few delegates from that team to SLOBs. We will invite the delegates to SLOBs meetings, and rotate scheduled times during SLOBs meetings to hear reports from their team or lab.
17:43 cjb walterbender_: seconded
17:43 bernie walterbender_: +1 again
17:43 CanoeBerry Is SLOBS@sl.org's membership unaffected by this motion, i.e. remaining 7 subscribers who are actual SLOBS?
17:43 cjb CanoeBerry: yes
17:43 bernie CanoeBerry: yes
17:43 icarito +1
17:43 walterbender_ CanoeBerry: that would require a referendum
17:44 alsroot: I think community is a bit vague... we have formal definitions of team and local lab
17:44 lfaraone walterbender_: I don't think adding additional people to the ML (which is what I think CanoeBerry meant) needs a referendum.
17:44 CanoeBerry i seem to recall that's what we voted on last year (slobs@sl.o == actual slobs). but i might be rusty.
17:45 walterbender_ alsroot: but if there are other groups we are missing???
17:45 bernie guys, it's slobs@lists.sl.o
17:45 walterbender_ CanoeBerry: we are not voting on that
17:45 CanoeBerry ok
17:45 cjb the motion was seconded, so we should vote on it now, right?
17:45 lfaraone walterbender_: so if I understand correctly, this MOTION is purely symbolic?
17:45 walterbender_ cjb: we can have discussion after it is seconded...
17:45 cjb walterbender_: oh, oops
17:45 ok
17:45 alsroot walterbender_: my only concern if org. overkill, if we will ask people to ask another peopel to be a delegates... what about just invite active community members?
17:46 walterbender_ lfaraone: it sends a message to the community and to me
17:46 alsroot: I prefer a mechanism that removes us from directly deciding whom to invite...
17:46 cjb alsroot: I like that this encourages people to organize in teams, and I think that people get more done when they're working in teams.  I don't think that teams are organizational overkill.
17:47 walterbender_ alsroot: let the established groups make their own recommendations...
17:47 alsroot: and we have a mechanism by which any community member can request the floor
17:47 bernie just learned the true meaning of "seconding" a motion
17:47 walterbender_ ^a discussion topic
17:47 cjb alsroot: yeah, we tend to delegate strongly to teams where we can.  we should just be helping them organizing themselves.
17:48 walterbender_ cjb: and letting our ED know that he needs to be more proactive in soliciting their feedback to the board
17:48 bernie cjb: in order to encourage people to organize in team, we have to give team leaders some autonomy about making important decisions that affect Sugar and Sugar Labs as a whole
17:48 CanoeBerry this motion says (among other things) guest speakers are to be encouraged during slobs meetings. as you all know, this is a tradition i encourage Sundays too :)
17:48 ChristoferR has left #sugar-meeting
17:48 walterbender_ any further comments? or are we ready to vote?
17:48 cjb (no further comments here)
17:49 walterbender_ then let's vote:
17:49 CanoeBerry +!
17:49 walterbender_ yes
17:49 CanoeBerry +1
17:49 bernie +1
17:49 alsroot +1
17:49 acaire11 <acaire11!~webchat@diabetes-3.media.mit.edu> has joined #sugar-meeting
17:49 icarito +1
17:50 cjb +1
17:50 walterbender_ the motion passes!!
17:50 6 yes, one absent
17:50 cjb okay, passes
17:50 walterbender_ OK. next topic: when to meet!!
17:50 #topic when to meet?
17:50 CanoeBerry and how often?
17:50 walterbender_ si, and how often...
17:51 cjb would 11am EST on Weds be bad for people?
17:51 (i.e. an hour earlier start than today)
17:51 CanoeBerry and in person where possible (in my opinion, you know the drill ;)
17:51 walterbender_ cjb: yes for our teacher guests
17:51 cjb ok
17:51 walterbender_ cjb: yes as in bad
17:51 cjb maybe they should propose some times?
17:51 unless we know what's good for them already
17:51 walterbender_ alsroot: what are your constraints?
17:52 alsroot walterbender_: any time would be ok for me
17:52 CanoeBerry any day but friday is better for me!
17:52 mon-thu preferred
17:52 walterbender_ looks for Gerald
17:52 's email
17:52 lfaraone is just in the peanut gallary, but the current time is fine.
17:53 walterbender_ from gerald: 8:55 to 9:20 and 12:55 to 1:20 are good for me any day. And 3-4pm are typically good as well.
17:53 (EST)
17:53 icarito do motions and resolutions get documented explicitly in http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]eeting/2010-12-01 ?
17:54 cjb walterbender_: those are less than an hour
17:54 walterbender_ icarito: yes
17:54 3-4 may be too late for alsroot ?
17:54 bernie notes that alsroot does not follow human schedules
17:54 alsroot walterbender_: np, I all time shift my "day"
17:54 cjb oh, does meeting bot know about #MOTION etc?
17:55 walterbender_ icarito: and I write up a summary in the wiki too
17:55 icarito cjb, yes
17:55 walterbender_ cjb: oops...
17:55 cjb okay, sorry, should've used that
17:55 icarito looking for tag
17:55 :-)
17:55 cjb MOTION: Each active team and local lab should propose a few delegates from that team to SLOBs. We will invite the delegates to SLOBs meetings, and rotate scheduled times during SLOBs meetings to hear reports from their team or lab.
17:55 oops
17:55 walterbender_ I'll dig it out of the log when I write the minutes for the wiki
17:55 cjb #MOTION Each active team and local lab should propose a few delegates from that team to SLOBs. We will invite the delegates to SLOBs meetings, and rotate scheduled times during SLOBs meetings to hear reports from their team or lab.
17:55 #AGREED
17:56 hm, it doesn't mention them at the top
17:56 icarito walterbender, thank you just found the meeting minutes
17:56 alsroot cjb: need to look into the code
17:56 walterbender_ OK. How about 3-4 on Wednesdays?
17:56 cjb ok
17:56 walterbender_: sorry, I have a weekly Marvell call exactly then
17:57 walterbender_ cjb: Tues? Thursday?
17:57 cjb both are fine I think
17:57 walterbender_ (3-4 EST)
17:57 cjb thurs would be good
17:57 walterbender_ OK. I think that will work for Rosamel too.
17:57 alsroot cjb: http://meetbot.debian.net/Manual.html#commands,
17:58 walterbender_ #MOTION The default time/day of the week for SLOBs meetings will be Thursdays at 15:00 EST (20:00 UTC)
17:58 cjb walterbender_: try #action
17:58 walterbender_ #action The default time/day of the week for SLOBs meetings will be Thursdays at 15:00 EST (20:00 UTC)
17:58 cjb seconded
17:58 shall we vote?  +1
17:59 walterbender_ yes, unless there are further comments...
17:59 alsroot +1
17:59 icarito +1
17:59 walterbender_ +1
17:59 CanoeBerry sounds insane for alsroot, but ok :)
17:59 cjb passes.  next up, if we can do it quickly: absentee slobs.
17:59 walterbender_ cjb: sure.
17:59 cjb how about:
17:59 icarito wheres the agenda?
17:59 walterbender_ #topic absentee members
17:59 CanoeBerry PS i'm booked Thurs 3pm tomorrow, but should be more free in subsequent weeks
17:59 +1
17:59 icarito ah sorry found it
18:00 walterbender_ icarito: I sent it in email... more vague than usual this week.
18:00 we need to discuss when to meet after this current topic
18:00 cjb #action MOTION: If a SLOB member misses three meetings in a row twice during their term, SLOBs shall find a replacement for their seat.
18:00 how's that?
18:01 or rather:
18:01 walterbender_ cjb: well, maybe we should empower slobs, but not force their hand?
18:01 cjb ok
18:01 #action MOTION: If a SLOB member misses three meetings in a row twice during their term, SLOBs may find a replacement for their seat.
18:01 CanoeBerry i prefer something like "1 month absence" over "3 meetings in a row"
18:01 bernie walterbender_: can you update the google calendar to reflect the new meeting time? I rely on it to get an SMS reminder on my phone
18:02 walterbender_ bernie: I will try :)
18:02 CanoeBerry: we have irregular meeting intervals...
18:02 bernie CanoeBerry: +1
18:02 CanoeBerry my concern is 3 rapid-fire meetings
18:02 cjb ok, we could try something like that:
18:02 walterbender_ CanoeBerry: good point
18:02 CanoeBerry should not cause impeachment
18:03 cjb #action MOTION: If a SLOB member misses meetings for three weeks in a row, twice during their term, SLOBs may find a replacement for their seat.
18:03 bernie cjb: seconded
18:03 (separately, we should also say somewhere how we replace vacant seats)
18:03 cjb we can do that after this
18:04 any more concerns?
18:04 CanoeBerry and what if there is only 1 meeting in a month, as happened recently?
18:04 cjb why don't I just say:
18:04 #action MOTION: If a SLOB member misses three regular weekly meetings in a row, twice during their term, SLOBs may find a replacement for their seat.
18:04 CanoeBerry missing those 2 key dates could cause impeachment unfairly
18:05 cjb hm?
18:05 are you happy with the new version?
18:05 walterbender_ cjb: yes... I think the word regular should address CanoeBerry's concerns
18:05 CanoeBerry sounds better
18:05 cjb cool
18:05 shall we vote on that one?
18:06 walterbender_ OK...
18:06 +1
18:06 CanoeBerry still a concern if folks have offline deployments
18:06 and need to disappear for a month
18:06 icarito does this motion cover the case when a slobs may be away / on travel and let the board know?
18:06 cjb twice
18:06 if someone needs to disappear for two months.. I dunno, maybe they shouldn't be on SLOBs :-)
18:06 CanoeBerry if someone disappears for a month twice in 2 years, they might not be doing that out of laziness!
18:06 SeanDaly cjb: if I may make a suggestion
18:06 cjb oops!
18:06 I forgot some people have two year terms
18:07 SeanDaly: go for it
18:07 CanoeBerry weekly pulse is important, but it's not the definition of leadership
18:07 icarito letting the board know should not constitute dissappearing
18:07 walterbender_ icarito: +1
18:07 SeanDaly cjb: absence, in particular of an active member, usually has a reason
18:07 walterbender_ this is also why I didn't want to force slobs' hand
18:08 CanoeBerry i guess i'd prefer 4 weekly meetings, twice in a row
18:08 SeanDaly cjb: although online work is efficient, the telephone or (re my Boston trip) sometimes more effective
18:08 CanoeBerry as the cuttoff
18:09 or something like an actual month
18:09 icarito SeanDaly, +1
18:09 SeanDaly cjb: so perhaps an effort beyond e-mail and IRC to ascertain the situation?
18:09 CanoeBerry yep
18:09 cjb I'm not really convinced, but sounds like I'm on the losing side of this one :-)
18:10 alsroot thinks that all people being elected to SLOBs are sane, and if they can't work in SLOBs on regular basis, they just need to request exclusion
18:10 walterbender_ cjb: maybe we just table it for the time being...
18:10 cjb: we already have some language in our bylaws to address this...
18:11 CanoeBerry absenteeism is never an easy problem to fix -- so long as we have guidelines / culture in place ready for the next time someone disappears for multiple months, we'll survive :)
18:11 cjb I dunno, I think I'd like to have a vote on this, but maybe next week.
18:11 icarito cjb, i was away for more than a month in the rainforest
18:11 CanoeBerry cjb: agreed
18:11 cjb icarito: once, or twice?  the motion says you can be so once.
18:11 CanoeBerry 3 wks to walk the plank is too short tho.
18:11 cjb I think the attempted compromise motion would be:
18:12 MOTION: If a SLOB member misse one month of regular weekly meetings in a row, twice during one calendar year, SLOBs may find a replacement for their seat.
18:12 s/misse/misses/
18:12 are people happier with that?
18:12 icarito cjb, the point is if i'm doing valid work for sugar labs and i have to loose a meeting, i should not worry too much as long as I can participate in other ways / times
18:12 CanoeBerry People are healthier if they take 1 month in a real offline deployment.
18:12 icarito cjb, but i do assume a commitment to do my best to be here
18:12 CanoeBerry icarito: yes
18:12 icarito of course
18:12 cjb icarito: it's not a meeting, obviously, it's four meetings in a row, twice
18:12 CanoeBerry cjb: +1
18:13 walterbender_ icarito: what if we add language about 'without informing the board'?
18:13 bernie cjb: we're making this rule so hard to apply that it will hardly become applicable in a real-world case :-)
18:13 CanoeBerry will all excuses be accepted?
18:13 icarito bernie, walterbender +1
18:13 cjb note that you can miss three meetings and then attend one, an infinite number of times
18:13 so it's not like we're even compelling everyone to show up most of the time!
18:13 CanoeBerry i like cjb's language as is
18:14 bernie cjb: if one cares to engulf SL this way...
18:14 cjb I dunno, I'm pretty disappointed that we can't get agreement on a easy standard of attendance like this one.  :)
18:14 CanoeBerry no need for excuss from your parents :)
18:14 cjb: +1 on your motion above
18:14 cjb okay, thanks.  perhaps we could vote?
18:14 CanoeBerry +1
18:14 cjb +1
18:14 walterbender_ +1 (again)
18:14 bernie well, I'd like the motion to be stricter but I'll +1 it anyway because it's better than no motion
18:14 icarito +1
18:14 alsroot +1
18:14 cjb thanks all
18:14 CanoeBerry yay, +1 for me to eat lunch now
18:15 cjb #agreed If a SLOB member misse one month of regular weekly meetings in a row, twice during one calendar year, SLOBs may find a replacement for their seat.
18:15 hehe.  yes, I think we're out of time now.
18:15 walterbender_ #topic when we meet...
18:15 cjb walterbender_: Thu 9 Dec 3pm?
18:15 walterbender_ we need to agree on a next meeting time at least
18:15 CanoeBerry +1
18:15 bernie Can we put on the records that, anyway, SLOBs are invited to voluntarily resign if they don't have the time or interest to participate on the board?
18:15 walterbender_ cjb: I can most likely attend. I will be in Madrid
18:15 CanoeBerry bernie: volunteer with full honors, yes
18:15 walterbender_ perhaps at a dinner
18:16 CanoeBerry bernie: voluntary retirmenet with full honors, yes, should never be a point of shame
18:16 bernie: voluntary retirmenent with full honors, yes, should never be a point of shame
18:16 walterbender_ bernie: this is already in the bylaws, as it language about remaining in good standing
18:16 cjb oh yes, I was going to propose yet another motion, maybe we can take this to e-mail or something:
18:16 CanoeBerry a reminder never hurts
18:17 Thu Dec 9th, 3PM, see you then!
18:17 3PM EST
18:17 cjb MOTION: We understand that SLOBs may have to resign sometimes.  When a SLOB member resigns, the SLOBs will choose a candidate to replace them, and that candidate's seat will be voted on at the next planned election.
18:17 (We can add that to the agenda for next week instead of voting on it now, if you like.)
18:18 CanoeBerry cjb: can we generalize that to fill vacancies of all kind?
18:18 (resignation or impeachment etc)
18:18 walterbender_ cjb: let's continue that thread... we can cite the bylaws text that covers this already...
18:18 cjb ok
18:18 s/resigns/leaves the board/
18:18 okay, let's leave it here for this week
18:18 thanks all!
18:18 walterbender_ meanwhile, I have some business to discuss... I suppose for next time.
18:19 Thanks all for attending...
18:19 icarito how long does the meeting usually last?
18:19 CanoeBerry 1hr ideally
18:19 can we promote advance topics for next meeting plz?
18:19 to enocourage attendance?
18:20 prior to 24hrs in advance where poss :)
18:20 icarito walterbender, "business to discuss"?
18:20 cjb and we can always carry out votes in e-mail instead of here too
18:20 walterbender_: yeah, now we're curious :)
18:20 alsroot CanoeBerry: would be useful if all (not only memebers) can post a topic to the wiki, meeting chair might choose useful ones
18:20 walterbender_ I wanted to discuss a marketing opportunity we are working on...
18:20 CanoeBerry our vote-by-email deadline is 96hrs-after-the-meeting-ends if i recall?
18:21 alsroot: promoting the actual page is #1
18:21 what the link again?
18:21 walterbender_ CanoeBerry: link for what?
18:22 CanoeBerry link for upcoming meeting topics?
18:22 icarito walterbender, sounds interesting
18:22 walterbender_ CanoeBerry: it is in the wiki...
18:22 CanoeBerry that's my concern exactly :)
18:22 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/O[…]ht_Board/Meetings ???
18:22 walterbender_ http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/O[…]ght_Board/Minutes
18:23 alsroot what about "If you have an idea or a topic to discuss with team contributors gathered in one place at the same time, please add new entry to agenda list below"
18:23 ..for all (not only SLOBs members)
18:23 CanoeBerry http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/O[…]ht_Board/Meetings is the same thing, OK.
18:24 walterbender_ CanoeBerry: what is the concern???
18:24 alsroot: I am happy to relax that language...
18:24 CanoeBerry That this link needs promotion -- we can all begin now to do that.
18:24 So folks add topics as alsroot says.
18:24 walterbender_ alsroot: I don't think it has been an issue to date, but there is no harm in relaxing it, as far as I can see
18:25 CanoeBerry: feel free to promote...
18:25 CanoeBerry http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/O[…]ht_Board/Meetings
18:25 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/O[…]ht_Board/Meetings
18:25 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/O[…]ht_Board/Meetings
18:25 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/O[…]ht_Board/Meetings
18:25 Done :)
18:26 Shall we call it a wrap?
18:26 Or other quick biz?
18:26 walterbender_ yeah, well, as I was saying before your PSA, I have a promotion I have been working on
18:26 icarito sounds good - +1 for relaxing the language in http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/O[…]ht_Board/Meetings
18:26 walterbender_ alsroot: will you please make the change?
18:27 have people seen this: http://www.google.com/url?sa=X[…]pV-hSAuPlmhmg-mMw
18:27 alsroot walterbender_: will do
18:27 walterbender_ hasn't read it yet, because I am behind a firewall
18:27 SeanDaly walterbender: will e you a PDF
18:28 walterbender_ SeanDaly: thanks :)
18:28 just want to make sure everyone has a heads up. we can discuss it next week.
18:28 CanoeBerry Very nice!
18:28 icarito reading
18:29 walterbender_ can we wrap up? I need to get to another meeting :(
18:30 bernie walterbender_: k
18:31 walterbender_ OK... going...
18:31 going...
18:31 gone
18:31 icarito thanks everyone!
18:31 walterbender_ Thanks everyone... lively discussion for our new board!!!
18:32 bernie walterbender_: did you forget to end the meeting?
18:32 walterbender_ See everyone here next week (I hope)...
18:32 SeanDaly has quit IRC
18:32 walterbender_ Id I cannot make it, I'll designate someone to run the meeting
18:32 #endmeeting
18:32 meeting Meeting ended Wed Dec  1 18:32:27 2010 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
18:32 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-01T17:03:11.html
18:32 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]10-12-01T17:03:11

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