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#sugar-meeting meeting, 2010-11-12 14:27:27

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14:27 meeting Meeting started Fri Nov 12 14:27:27 2010 UTC. The chair is alsroot. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:27 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
14:28 dfarning redhat has found a very good balance between supporting upstream and meeting customer needs -- but it took them a long time to get there!!!
14:29 so when in doubt I ask my self, "What (and why) would RH do in this situation?"
14:30 alsroot listening carefully :)
14:30 dfarning silbe, that is kind of hand wavy -- but does it seem like a starting point around which we can all gather?  from here we can evolve as necessary.
14:31 silbe OK. I take that to mean that for now, Dextrose won't care about the Telepathy fallout of 0.90. (The fixes would most likely require someone to first learn how Telepathy works - no quick&easy fixes, no sugar-love tags)
14:31 dfarning: it's at least as good as I expected :)
14:32 there are no easy answers to this kind of question
14:33 dfarning silbe, I don't know.  I stay out of those details -- you and alsroot understand upstreams technical needs better then I do.  So it is up to you to figure out how we can best support SL and OLPC.
14:33 alsroot silbe: I guess we need to discuss how process of upstre-downstream might be orginized, any detialed questions are just details..
14:33 ..even if it is so imprtant like TP
14:34 dfarning alsroot, silbe exactly -- we will try to get the down stream part of the project focused on particular deployment needs.
14:36 alsroot, silbe I use the analogy of going to college for working with upstream.
14:36 silbe listening
14:37 dfarning it is possible to get a job straight out of highschool(short term solutions).  but people in general tend to be more successful if they make the investment in an education.
14:38 one concern is making enough money to eat while going through school
14:38 and another how much education is right.
14:39 dirakx <dirakx!~rafael@> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:40 dfarning hopefully we will be able to answer these questions as we go -- but for now I am thinking of you, alsroot and silbe, as investments in the long term.
14:42 silbe, alsroot does that make sense?  I pick you guys for a reason:)  I think that if you do what 'feels' right you will be adding value to dextrose and AC.
14:42 picked
14:43 alsroot +1, but exactly sure w/ what :)
14:43 s/but/but not/
14:44 anyway, in my mind, having organizations like AC will be only useful..
14:44 dfarning alsroot, yah admittedly it is hand wavey:)
14:44 alsroot because they will behave like GNU/Linux distros that package (not develop) software
14:45 silbe dfarning: ok, good enough for now :)
14:46 dfarning So going down stream SMParrish_away will be the traffic cop.  Basically keeping things going in a consistant direction.
14:48 the biggest concern that I have with SMParrish_away is if we are overloading him -- a good buildmaster is a full time job.
14:49 alsroot is sure that current prolem is that developers (DeveTeam) is producing a product - sucrose (or whatever), it might more useful it deves will prodece exactly what they develop (people who code ds, will release ds and be responsible of ds bugs, etc) and organizaitons like OLPC, AC will create a final product (sugar distribution)
14:50 ..as a compilation of sugar components
14:50 SMParrish_mobile <SMParrish_mobile!~Android@> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:50 Cerlyn <Cerlyn!~Cerlyn@173-12-75-9-miami.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
14:51 dfarning alsroot, +1 -- several year ago when SL spun off from olpc I had thought that the product role was something that deployments would be able to do on their own.
14:52 silbe alsroot: for other projects, distros sometimes fix bugs etc., but most of the time they just package what upstream gave them, not developing (fixing bugs etc.) the software.
14:53 dfarning but to be honest, I really under estimated how much expertise was required.
14:53 alsroot silbe: yup, you got me right, because having model: components <-> downstream(that produce complication), let downstream work much effectivelly w/ particular dev (eg ds dev), instead of having one more product producer (and devs in any case)
14:54 dfarning silbe, think back to RHEL -> over the developers spent a long time figureing out the right balance between shipping stock upstream and carry patches.
14:54 silbe dfarning: it's easy to make that mistake. Sometimes it helps to remember that if developing Sugar was so easy, it would already have been done years ago.
14:55 alsroot: sorry, you lost me there :(
14:55 dfarning silbe, at one time RH was carrying 10,000 custom kernel patches!!!
14:56 dirakx has quit IRC
14:56 dfarning silbe, they relized that was insane and shifted heavility to working with upstream now they are down to a couple of hundred custom kernel patches.
14:57 alsroot dfarning: but at the same time, they might just pay for some project devs to implement what they(RH) want, instead of insteracting w/ one more product producer (eg in case of improving gnome-file-manager, but RH need to interact w/ Gnome foundation)
14:57 silbe dfarning: do they develop many of the patches themselves or just pick them from upstream (I haven't worked with an "Enterprise" distro so far - for "community" distros it's hard to tell since the same people are often part of upstream, too)
14:59 alsroot: I don't think anyone who wants something fixed in Gnome needs to interact with the Gnome Foundation - the same way you only need to interact with the maintainer of the Sugar component, not with the SLOB.
14:59 alsroot: so I don't quite understand what you're talking about re. "product producer" etc.
14:59 alsroot silbe: s/SLOB/DevTeam-who-produce-a-product-suscrose/
15:00 dfarning alsroot, silbe those are the question we will have to answer -- there is probably not a right answer -- just reasonable balance points.
15:00 silbe alsroot: so what's the difference?
15:00 alsroot is AC can pickup ds that is not a shipped w/ entirely sucrose, it will be let AC be more flexible
15:00 *if
15:01 though, I'm steeping to the territory where I'm not confident
15:02 silbe alsroot: I still don't get what the difference is to the current situation. Dextrose can pick sugar-datastore-0.90 if it wants (and I recommend it to do so ;) ), who is going to stop us?
15:03 but we should postpone that discussion and continue with the Dextrose Roadmap :)
15:04 dfarning it has been and hour so let's wrap up the meeting and just continue talking -- this is a core topic we will pick back up with internal dextrose development next week.
15:05 alsroot dfarning: you can stop meeting by #stopmeeting command
15:05 dfarning silbe, does it make sense to think about it in terms of computer scientists vs. computer engineers.
15:05 #stopmeeting
15:05 alsroot #stopmeeting
15:05 oops, I should say
15:05 dfarning can I stop it if I didn't did start it?
15:06 silbe #endmeeting
15:06 dfarning: only the chair (alsroot) can
15:06 alsroot #endmeeting
15:06 meeting Meeting ended Fri Nov 12 15:06:42 2010 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
15:06 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-12T14:27:27.html
15:06 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]10-11-12T14:27:27

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