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#sugar-meeting meeting, 2010-08-02 15:23:00

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Time Nick Message
15:23 pbrobinson waves to mchua
15:23 sdziallas #topic Sugar on a Stick Weekly Meeting 2010/08/02
15:23 mchua waves to pbrobinson
15:23 sdziallas #chair mchua pbrobinson
15:24 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]_a_Stick_meetings
15:24 Walking through the agenda.
15:24 #topic Release Schedule
15:24 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]#Release_schedule
15:24 We're past Feature Freeze.
15:25 Alpha Freeze is supposed to be enacted tomorrow, but we'll presumably slip with the Alpha release.
15:25 That's alright and nothing too worrisome.
15:25 It doesn't affect any other deadlines.
15:25 pbrobinson I tried to install the alpha test and it doesn't install. I don't see how it can't slip
15:25 sdziallas We'll talk about the features as mentioned on-list today.
15:25 pbrobinson: yup, with all the blockers and py2.7 coming in, agreed.
15:26 Can we move on here?
15:26 I'll take that as a yes.
15:26 #topic Feature Proposals
15:27 pbrobinson yep
15:27 sdziallas #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]mitted_for_review
15:27 #topic Feature (1): Updated Activities from the Mirabelle list
15:27 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/U[…]he_Mirabelle_list
15:27 The feature page looks blank.
15:27 pbrobinson well....
15:28 mchua Er... I apologize for slackerness on these feature proposals.
15:28 The last week has been totally crazy for me, but that's no excuse.
15:28 sdziallas Obviously there'll be updates and stuff.
15:28 pbrobinson I think we can approve it as it was going to happen anyway. It was more of a feature for marketing wasn't it?
15:28 but....
15:28 sdziallas JT4sugar: have you heard from Sean lately?
15:28 pbrobinson it looks likely that Read is going to be broken again
15:28 sdziallas Yup.
15:28 lucian: (fyi)
15:29 garycmartin Read broken again? Aaarg!
15:29 pbrobinson I'm going to send an email to sugar-devel about it as I think Tomeu might know more
15:30 garycmartin: yep, believe me I'll be doing my damndest to make sure we can get it fixed
15:30 garycmartin pbrobinson: thanks, any pointers as to the break?
15:30 sdziallas garycmartin: gnome python2 binding with evince failing to compile in fedora, I hear.
15:30 pbrobinson I'll send details to sugar-devel and soas lists
15:30 sdziallas shuts up. :)
15:31 Okay, so what do we do with this feature?
15:31 garycmartin pbrobinson: thanks, willk keep eyes open for the email.
15:31 pbrobinson so I'll ping out more details as there's a couple of links.
15:31 JT4sugar sdziallas, Had to chance to chat with him on phone last week. Family-Kids home for summer-Deadlines at work-Was just getting into his backlog of email. Think he will resurface very soon!
15:32 sdziallas JT4sugar: hey! okeydokey, that's cool! :)
15:32 pbrobinson so... where were we?
15:32 sdziallas the feature.
15:33 pbrobinson I vote Activity updates +1 even without the write up.
15:33 sdziallas is kinda afraid of approving a blank feature. but we've been updating activities already, so not approving this doesn't make sense.
15:34 pbrobinson well its going to happen either way. I believe the perpose of the feature was more for marketing. mchua can you confirm?
15:34 sdziallas that kinda obsoletes a feature requirement for it, agreed.
15:35 however, if there are special / specific upgrades worth mentioning, I'd like to see them written up.
15:35 (so instead of OMG WE UPDATED *STUFF*, we could go "we included *this* cool new feature that'll make *this* activity *so* much more awesome".)
15:36 mchua pbrobinson, sdziallas: no longer blank, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/U[…]elle_list#Summary
15:36 +1 for listing specific upgrades + new features + etc as they go along.
15:36 sdziallas Okeydokey.
15:36 #action This feature is approved.
15:36 Next.
15:37 mchua I'll put myself down as the owner for this for now, and try to get someone else to take it later, but just so someone's keeping an eye on it.
15:37 sdziallas #topic Remixability
15:37 mchua sdziallas: er, I think you mean
15:37 #agreed Updated Activities from the Mirabelle list: FEATURE APPROVED
15:37 Carry on. :)
15:37 sdziallas 15:34 < mchua> #agreed Updated Activities from the Mirabelle list: FEATURE APPROVED
15:37 Argh.
15:37 #agreed Updated Activities from the Mirabelle list: FEATURE APPROVED
15:37 (I'm pretty sure this bot doesn't know chairs.)
15:37 #link 15:34 < mchua> #agreed Updated Activities from the Mirabelle list: FEATURE APPROVED
15:38 DAMMIT.
15:38 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]s_V4/Remixability
15:38 Here we go.
15:38 Sorry folks.
15:38 walterbender mchua: I am a bit confused by your wiki hierarchy... should the Update_Activities... page be under SoaS somewhere, as well as these Feature pages?
15:38 sdziallas I'm +1 to this feature in general and -1 to its implementation.
15:39 mchua walterbender: ...possibly? My personal criteria right now is "can you find it on http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]k_release_process" but you're right that we should probably do some wiki reorg/cleanup.
15:39 walterbender: ...probably after feature freeze, though, so we can do them all at once.
15:39 sdziallas mchua, pbrobinson: thoughts?
15:40 mchua sdziallas: I agree with you.
15:40 pbrobinson I'm not sure how the feature is already 100%. I have a few minor reservations.
15:40 We already include the livecd-creator
15:41 Including the base kickstarts isn't hard
15:41 but it doesn't make it off the current install but rather pulls the packages down from the net
15:42 so the live USB stick will need probably 3Gb free based on our 2Gb base FS + packages
15:43 walterbender needs to bail... sdziallas: see you next week!!
15:43 mchua pbrobinson: The way I'd like to see that feature stated is *not* that "SoaS contains all the tools on it that are needed to remix itself"
15:44 sdziallas walterbender: yeah!! looking forward to meeting you again :)
15:44 mchua (i.e. having the SoaS image doesn't necessarily mean you can make a remix)
15:44 satellit_Acer the .iso is 486 MB for v4 here compressed
15:44 pbrobinson satellit_Acer: but that's not how that works for remixes
15:44 JT4sugar pbrobinson, A 5GB stick 3+2 or 3GB total?
15:44 mchua pbrobinson: Instead, I'd like to use it as a marketing point for what we already have working, which is "you can use Mangolassi/Mirabelle as base images to remix something that's custom-suited to your classroom (you will need additional tools for this, please see our handy Customization Guide)"
15:45 satellit_Acer mirabelle is 535 with 4 extra application
15:45 mchua sdziallas, pbrobinson: does that make sense?
15:45 Use/revise existing resources, but make it a point to call that out for this release.
15:45 sdziallas mchua: my vote stands as above.
15:46 mchua sdziallas: How about the implementation I just described?
15:46 ...perhaps once it's written up more.
15:47 sdziallas mchua: I'm encouraging remixability in general, as previously stated.
15:47 pbrobinson mchua: OK, the documentation needs to cover the space that would be needed to do it and it needs to be documented that what is currently running isn't what they would get
15:47 JT4sugar: 3Gb on top of what is already there.
15:48 sdziallas I've mentioned already that I'd to see this being integrated in the official Customization Guide, too.
15:48 satellit_Acer why so large are they full installs?
15:49 mchua pbrobinson: yeah, so I suppose that is what the remaining work for the feature would be - Customization Guide work, and integration into that.
15:49 sdziallas: It would all go into the Customization Guide, and resources surrounding/pointing-to that.
15:49 I don't want to fork when we have a resource for this already that we should be improving.
15:49 sdziallas Indeed.
15:50 pbrobinson satellit_Acer: the based uncompressed ext4 filesystem is 2Gb. Then you need to download all the packages. What you see on the ISO is a compressed installed filesystem. What you need to create it is all uncompressed. so 2Gb for the filesystem + how much the total uninstalled packages they want use.
15:50 sdziallas Alright, I want to wrap this.
15:50 votes +1 conditional to integration in existing resources.
15:51 mchua votes +1 conditional to integration in existing resources (specifically, Customization Guide).
15:51 sdziallas (and propose to revisit it after alphe release.)
15:52 mchua good idea.
15:52 JT4sugar pbrobinson, So these kick start files will be 2GB plus extras?
15:52 pbrobinson votes +1 with proper documentation
15:53 sdziallas #AGREED Feature Remixability APPROVED, conditional to proper documentation and integration in Customization Guide (revisit post-alpha)
15:53 pbrobinson JT4sugar: No. the .ks will be a couple of KB. But if you want to build a custom remix on the device it will need about 3Gb spare space
15:53 sdziallas #topic Including Fructose Activities that are tested and known to work
15:53 JT4sugar pbrobinson, I got it now Thanks!
15:53 sdziallas no feature page for this one, but makes sense for me with a testing process
15:53 votes please?
15:54 mchua Same smoke test as we're going to use for "activities from Mirabelle still work, ship them again," I'd think.
15:54 JT4sugar +1 with integration
15:54 mchua also makes sense to me - this is an easy one that we can/should do anyway.
15:54 The test process is mandatory, though.
15:54 satellit_ I have updated this page http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/F[…]vity_Test_Results
15:55 sdziallas +1
15:55 mchua (See, I see this and the Mirabelle-Activities-updating features as "stuff we are going to do anyway, but tihs time we are documenting it so others can see how it's done and do it next time")
15:55 +1
15:55 sdziallas (we have 8 minutes left)
15:56 I think it passes, right? Wait, pbrobinson?
15:56 pbrobinson +1
15:56 sdziallas cool!
15:56 #AGREED Feature Including Fructose Activities that are tested and known to work APPROVED.
15:57 #topic Feature More Robust Iso
15:57 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/More_robust_iso
15:57 I'm worried that this will not get done in time.
15:58 mchua So am I.
15:59 sdziallas Should we approve it anyway for now?
15:59 I'd like to revisit this, too.
15:59 mchua I want to keep working on it, the question is whether we want to make it a feature (which, in my mind means we can block on it, or that we're going to prioritize it over things that are not features, in terms of stuff getting done for the release)
16:00 sdziallas mchua: agreed. I think the latter one makes sense.
16:00 I thikn it's an important thing to do, but it's probably not a feature.
16:00 mchua nods.
16:00 come to think of it, you're right.
16:01 pbrobinson mchua: I feel its more an upstream feature that SoaS can make use of and publicise
16:01 JT4sugar It would seem to be a quality issue and would be big help on user end in classroom
16:01 sdziallas nods.
16:01 mchua It doesn't really change the image itslef... it's a supporting tool that's being changed.
16:01 JT4sugar: Absolutely, it would be a giant help for deployment, and it's a problem that does need to be solved.
16:01 sdziallas I'd really love to see this happening, but I'm not sure whether we'll be able to pull it off.
16:01 mchua but I was wrong earlier about this being a SoaS feature - it's a liveusb-creator feature, and we should push for changes upstream (and have been doing that for something like 2 months now).
16:02 So if liveusb-creator pulls it off, we can trumped that some in our co-marketing, perhaps.
16:02 sdziallas votes -1
16:02 mchua But if not, it's not something our release blocks on.
16:02 sdziallas (to the feature, that is)
16:02 satellit_ liveinst also works well except broken in F14 for now
16:02 mchua withdraws the feature proposal
16:02 sdziallas awesome :)
16:02 #ACTION Feature More Robust Iso belongs upstream, is withdrawn.
16:02 Thanks everybody.
16:02 #topic Open Floor.
16:03 pbrobinson agreed on the marketing feature and I WANT it too :-)
16:03 sdziallas We have a minute... oh, it's 4pm.
16:03 Anybody anything else? I gotta leave shortly.
16:03 Otherwise I'd like to wrap this.
16:03 satellit_ sdziallas Can others contribute to http://download.sugarlabs.org/[…]tomization-guide? I would like to help
16:04 sdziallas satellit_: yes, sure!
16:04 JT4sugar mchua, If you push the quality in classroom angle with upstream might help-Sticks are not failing for kids thanks to you
16:04 sdziallas satellit_: there are instructions here: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]Documentation_SOP :)
16:04 goes closing the meeting now in 3.
16:04 2.
16:04 1.
16:04 0.5
16:05 satellit_ ok thanks. do you want changes first? before I make them?
16:05 sdziallas satellit_: it's on the wiki page :)
16:05 satellit_ : )
16:05 sdziallas #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/S[…]Documentation_SOP
16:05 #endmeeting

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