Meeting started by mchua at 15:07 UTC
15:07:59 LINK mchua
15:08:18 INFO mchua Today's meeting goal: review the v3 release cycle of SoaS, go over what happened and what parts of that went well / could be better.
15:08:39 INFO mchua this is NOT a v4 planning session - we'll be doing that next week, and incorporating the data we get during this round into that to make v4 better.
15:10:41 LINK mchua
15:11:01 Topic: November 2009
15:11:28 INFO mchua November 11, 2009 - Fedora (and therefore Fedora Spin) release cycle begins
15:11:49 LINK mchua
15:12:25 INFO mchua November 2009 - SLOBs declares the term "SoaS" to refer to this project
15:13:46 Topic: December
15:13:51 Topic: December 2009
15:14:04 LINK mchua
15:15:17 INFO mchua December 2009 - still on Blueberry, lots of good PR from SeanDaly and Marketing crew (but this isn't Mirabelle, so we should move on)
15:15:43 Topic: January 2010
15:15:56 LINK mchua
15:16:14 INFO mchua January 14, 2010 - Approval as a Fedora Spin
15:17:09 LINK mchua
15:17:40 INFO mchua "Spins are alternate versions of Fedora, tailored for various types of users via hand-picked application sets and other customizations."
15:17:47 LINK mchua
15:18:44 INFO mchua Feature Freeze (in the Fedora 13 cycle, Feb 9, 2010) was a hard deadline for Spin approval, so it's good we got in earlier
15:19:13 INFO mchua Spin approval was a deadline imposed by Fedora - if we'd missed that, we would not have been able to take advantage of Fedora's engineering, etc. resources at all for Mirabelle.
15:24:20 LINK mchua
15:24:41 INFO mchua That's the January mailing list archives - we didn't explain the "yay, spin!" thing very well then, which may have led to communication disconnect down the line
15:24:59 LINK sdziallas
15:25:21 LINK mchua
15:26:29 INFO sdziallas SoaS planning meeting lead to working on getting spin approved
15:26:57 Topic: Feb 2010
15:27:14 INFO mchua 2010-02-09 Fedora Feature Freeze
15:28:54 INFO sdziallas sdziallas thinks we should talk about features for v.4
15:30:56 IDEA mchua send fortnightly release schedule emails to the SoaS list about upcoming milestones
15:31:11 IDEA pbrobinson regulart email the upcoming schedule and deadlines
15:35:46 LINK pbrobinson
15:36:37 INFO mchua basically, the way features happen in Fedora is that early in the release process, developers propose features, and they are approved by feature freeze
15:37:12 INFO mchua they have to meet certain criteria by certain deadlines - if they don't, they're dropped and not eligible for mention as features
15:37:39 INFO pbrobinson feature freeze is in time for the alpha release
15:38:15 INFO mchua Marketing team in Fedora makes their plans according to the feature list that's set by Alpha - this lets us plan how to target what features early in the process
15:39:09 INFO mchua Major features must be in and testable by Alpha; minor changes need to be in and testable by Beta, after Beta it's only bugfixes allowed (in the Fedora schedule)
15:40:03 INFO mchua since SoaS relies on both Sugar and Fedora as upstreams, we rely on their feature processes - most SoaS features come from either Fedora features or Sugar features.
15:41:30 INFO mchua SoaS upstreams: Fedora, Sugar Labs (sugar-core), ASLO (Activities), GNOME, python
15:41:49 INFO sdziallas Activity Inclusions Criteria to be finalized for v.4
15:42:43 INFO mchua Feature processes are things that happen in basically every major FOSS project, and really in every major engineering project (even non-software) - it's how we systematically make sure we build something that's good and working.
15:44:13 Topic: Activity development/inclusion perspective on the feature process
15:46:56 INFO pbrobinson track core libraries and dependencies more closely
15:51:18 INFO mchua Activity developers weren't informed of changes in the libraries their Activities depended on, when those libraries changed in Fedora (and thus got included in SoaS). This led to confusion and instability late in the cycle when Activity folks belatedly realized this had happened.
15:51:23 INFO mchua two of our upstreams (Fedora and ASLO) basically collided when they combined, and didn't realize that collision was coming, because we didn't track dependencies between them... part of the problem was that we didn't know who was responsible for keeping track of that aspect of communication, so everyone assumed it was someone else and nobody did it.
15:51:59 IDEA pbrobinson it would be good if we could enable a python option to close check the api and break the build if there's something missing / changed
15:53:33 INFO mchua the Activities confusion manifests itself in the small number of "supported" activities in the v3 release
15:53:43 INFO mchua Marketing perspective on v3 feature/release process
16:11:13 INFO sdziallas marketing was confronted with removal of activities
16:15:58 INFO sdziallas sdziallas thinks what's really needed is communication
16:18:14 INFO pbrobinson the activity authors need to pay attention to their upstreams, the SoaS team needs to pull the strings together and talk to marketing and...
16:29:25 INFO mchua satellit_ did field-testing (building real SoaS sticks from .iso files and testing on those) - closest thing to systematic testing we've had yet, though we still have a ways to go
16:30:06 ACTION mchua SeanDaly to start discussion on multiple website (spins.fp.o,, etc.) divergence on-list
16:31:45 IDEA mchua Central test result reporting location
16:34:44 INFO sdziallas v3 didn't have a test plan and it made things confusing for both testers and release engineering
16:37:03 IDEA mchua look at Fedora AutoQA project to see what QA features we can automate
16:38:02 INFO mchua We standardized on official install methods (liveusb-creator, unetbootin) but this was done quickly without broad consensus so there's still friction about alternate methods that are out there.
16:41:59 ACTION mchua satellit_ to bring up DVD as feature for consideration in v4, by way of figuring out the feature inclusion process
16:43:50 INFO mchua things we liked!
16:43:58 Topic: Things we liked!
16:44:08 INFO mchua it's *shiny*. it's *yellow*. it works... well, er, mostly. It has over 300 downloads by now
16:44:14 INFO mchua it's over :-D
16:44:19 INFO mchua It works nicely
16:44:29 LINK mchua
16:44:31 INFO sdziallas we actually made it.
16:44:40 LINK mchua
16:44:42 INFO sdziallas we have a *team* :)
16:44:49 INFO mchua (those links are compliments from Daniel and Simon)
16:44:59 INFO mchua we have a *release schedule*
16:45:20 INFO pbrobinson the process from an engineering process was considerably smoother using the Fedora Spins process
16:45:22 INFO mchua we started driving communications to public channels - notably the SoaS mailing list - so things are more transparent
16:45:55 INFO mchua multiple people have commit access to each repository that needs to be handled, no single-person bottlenecks
16:47:24 INFO mchua we *had* a release cycle and a target release date set early in the process... it wasn't just a "uh, this seems ready to go now" sort of thing
16:50:58 INFO mchua we lack ponies in the v3 release. and pandas.
16:51:21 ACTION mchua pick SoaS v.4 color combos soon
16:52:09 IDEA mchua sync with Design earlier in the release cycle for color-choosing, etc.
17:00:10 ACTION mchua find ways to tap tabs and the Welly/Auckland testers for SoaS QA, 'cause they rock
17:00:37 INFO mchua there's a FUDCon in September in Zurich, we may want to look at that as a Sugar/SoaS meetup opportunity.
17:01:20 INFO mchua thank you also to James Cameron in Australia for his testing help!
17:02:11 ACTION mchua SeanDaly taking Mirabelle media launch discussion up at Marketing meeting
Meeting ended at 17:02.

People Present:
  1. mchua
  2. sdziallas
  3. garycmartin
  4. satellit_
  5. SeanDaly
  6. pbrobinson
  7. walterbender
  8. m_anish
  9. tabs

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