| 15:07:59 | LINK | mchua | http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick_meetings#Agenda |
| 15:08:18 | INFO | mchua | Today's meeting goal: review the v3 release cycle of SoaS, go over what happened and what parts of that went well / could be better. |
| 15:08:39 | INFO | mchua | this is NOT a v4 planning session - we'll be doing that next week, and incorporating the data we get during this round into that to make v4 better. |
| 15:10:41 | LINK | mchua | http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/soas/ |
| 15:11:01 | Topic: November 2009 | ||
|---|---|---|---|
| 15:11:28 | INFO | mchua | November 11, 2009 - Fedora (and therefore Fedora Spin) release cycle begins |
| 15:11:49 | LINK | mchua | http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/soas/2009-November/thread.html |
| 15:12:25 | INFO | mchua | November 2009 - SLOBs declares the term "SoaS" to refer to this project |
| 15:13:46 | Topic: December | ||
| 15:13:51 | Topic: December 2009 | ||
| 15:14:04 | LINK | mchua | http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/soas/2009-December/thread.html |
| 15:15:17 | INFO | mchua | December 2009 - still on Blueberry, lots of good PR from SeanDaly and Marketing crew (but this isn't Mirabelle, so we should move on) |
| 15:15:43 | Topic: January 2010 | ||
| 15:15:56 | LINK | mchua | http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2010-January/007869.html |
| 15:16:14 | INFO | mchua | January 14, 2010 - Approval as a Fedora Spin |
| 15:17:09 | LINK | mchua | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Spins |
| 15:17:40 | INFO | mchua | "Spins are alternate versions of Fedora, tailored for various types of users via hand-picked application sets and other customizations." |
| 15:17:47 | LINK | mchua | http://spins.fedoraproject.org/about |
| 15:18:44 | INFO | mchua | Feature Freeze (in the Fedora 13 cycle, Feb 9, 2010) was a hard deadline for Spin approval, so it's good we got in earlier |
| 15:19:13 | INFO | mchua | Spin approval was a deadline imposed by Fedora - if we'd missed that, we would not have been able to take advantage of Fedora's engineering, etc. resources at all for Mirabelle. |
| 15:24:20 | LINK | mchua | http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/soas/2010-January/thread.html |
| 15:24:41 | INFO | mchua | That's the January mailing list archives - we didn't explain the "yay, spin!" thing very well then, which may have led to communication disconnect down the line |
| 15:24:59 | LINK | sdziallas | http://meeting.olpcorps.net/sugar-meeting/sugar-meeting.minutes.20100108_1109.html |
| 15:25:21 | LINK | mchua | http://meeting.olpcorps.net/sugar-meeting/sugar-meeting.minutes.20100108_1109.html |
| 15:26:29 | INFO | sdziallas | SoaS planning meeting lead to working on getting spin approved |
| 15:26:57 | Topic: Feb 2010 | ||
| 15:27:14 | INFO | mchua | 2010-02-09 Fedora Feature Freeze |
| 15:28:54 | INFO | sdziallas | sdziallas thinks we should talk about features for v.4 |
| 15:30:56 | IDEA | mchua | send fortnightly release schedule emails to the SoaS list about upcoming milestones |
| 15:31:11 | IDEA | pbrobinson | regulart email the upcoming schedule and deadlines |
| 15:35:46 | LINK | pbrobinson | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Policy |
| 15:36:37 | INFO | mchua | basically, the way features happen in Fedora is that early in the release process, developers propose features, and they are approved by feature freeze |
| 15:37:12 | INFO | mchua | they have to meet certain criteria by certain deadlines - if they don't, they're dropped and not eligible for mention as features |
| 15:37:39 | INFO | pbrobinson | feature freeze is in time for the alpha release |
| 15:38:15 | INFO | mchua | Marketing team in Fedora makes their plans according to the feature list that's set by Alpha - this lets us plan how to target what features early in the process |
| 15:39:09 | INFO | mchua | Major features must be in and testable by Alpha; minor changes need to be in and testable by Beta, after Beta it's only bugfixes allowed (in the Fedora schedule) |
| 15:40:03 | INFO | mchua | since SoaS relies on both Sugar and Fedora as upstreams, we rely on their feature processes - most SoaS features come from either Fedora features or Sugar features. |
| 15:41:30 | INFO | mchua | SoaS upstreams: Fedora, Sugar Labs (sugar-core), ASLO (Activities), GNOME, python |
| 15:41:49 | INFO | sdziallas | Activity Inclusions Criteria to be finalized for v.4 |
| 15:42:43 | INFO | mchua | Feature processes are things that happen in basically every major FOSS project, and really in every major engineering project (even non-software) - it's how we systematically make sure we build something that's good and working. |
| 15:44:13 | Topic: Activity development/inclusion perspective on the feature process | ||
| 15:46:56 | INFO | pbrobinson | track core libraries and dependencies more closely |
| 15:51:18 | INFO | mchua | Activity developers weren't informed of changes in the libraries their Activities depended on, when those libraries changed in Fedora (and thus got included in SoaS). This led to confusion and instability late in the cycle when Activity folks belatedly realized this had happened. |
| 15:51:23 | INFO | mchua | two of our upstreams (Fedora and ASLO) basically collided when they combined, and didn't realize that collision was coming, because we didn't track dependencies between them... part of the problem was that we didn't know who was responsible for keeping track of that aspect of communication, so everyone assumed it was someone else and nobody did it. |
| 15:51:59 | IDEA | pbrobinson | it would be good if we could enable a python option to close check the api and break the build if there's something missing / changed |
| 15:53:33 | INFO | mchua | the Activities confusion manifests itself in the small number of "supported" activities in the v3 release |
| 15:53:43 | INFO | mchua | Marketing perspective on v3 feature/release process |
| 16:11:13 | INFO | sdziallas | marketing was confronted with removal of activities |
| 16:15:58 | INFO | sdziallas | sdziallas thinks what's really needed is communication |
| 16:18:14 | INFO | pbrobinson | the activity authors need to pay attention to their upstreams, the SoaS team needs to pull the strings together and talk to marketing and... |
| 16:29:25 | INFO | mchua | satellit_ did field-testing (building real SoaS sticks from .iso files and testing on those) - closest thing to systematic testing we've had yet, though we still have a ways to go |
| 16:30:06 | ACTION | mchua | SeanDaly to start discussion on multiple website (spins.fp.o, wiki.sl.o, etc.) divergence on-list |
| 16:31:45 | IDEA | mchua | Central test result reporting location |
| 16:34:44 | INFO | sdziallas | v3 didn't have a test plan and it made things confusing for both testers and release engineering |
| 16:37:03 | IDEA | mchua | look at Fedora AutoQA project to see what QA features we can automate |
| 16:38:02 | INFO | mchua | We standardized on official install methods (liveusb-creator, unetbootin) but this was done quickly without broad consensus so there's still friction about alternate methods that are out there. |
| 16:41:59 | ACTION | mchua | satellit_ to bring up DVD as feature for consideration in v4, by way of figuring out the feature inclusion process |
| 16:43:50 | INFO | mchua | things we liked! |
| 16:43:58 | Topic: Things we liked! | ||
| 16:44:08 | INFO | mchua | it's *shiny*. it's *yellow*. it works... well, er, mostly. It has over 300 downloads by now |
| 16:44:14 | INFO | mchua | it's over :-D |
| 16:44:19 | INFO | mchua | It works nicely |
| 16:44:29 | LINK | mchua | http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2010-May/024203.html |
| 16:44:31 | INFO | sdziallas | we actually made it. |
| 16:44:40 | LINK | mchua | http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2010-May/010956.html |
| 16:44:42 | INFO | sdziallas | we have a *team* :) |
| 16:44:49 | INFO | mchua | (those links are compliments from Daniel and Simon) |
| 16:44:59 | INFO | mchua | we have a *release schedule* |
| 16:45:20 | INFO | pbrobinson | the process from an engineering process was considerably smoother using the Fedora Spins process |
| 16:45:22 | INFO | mchua | we started driving communications to public channels - notably the SoaS mailing list - so things are more transparent |
| 16:45:55 | INFO | mchua | multiple people have commit access to each repository that needs to be handled, no single-person bottlenecks |
| 16:47:24 | INFO | mchua | we *had* a release cycle and a target release date set early in the process... it wasn't just a "uh, this seems ready to go now" sort of thing |
| 16:50:58 | INFO | mchua | we lack ponies in the v3 release. and pandas. |
| 16:51:21 | ACTION | mchua | pick SoaS v.4 color combos soon |
| 16:52:09 | IDEA | mchua | sync with Design earlier in the release cycle for color-choosing, etc. |
| 17:00:10 | ACTION | mchua | find ways to tap tabs and the Welly/Auckland testers for SoaS QA, 'cause they rock |
| 17:00:37 | INFO | mchua | there's a FUDCon in September in Zurich, we may want to look at that as a Sugar/SoaS meetup opportunity. |
| 17:01:20 | INFO | mchua | thank you also to James Cameron in Australia for his testing help! |
| 17:02:11 | ACTION | mchua | SeanDaly taking Mirabelle media launch discussion up at Marketing meeting |
Here is the Log. More meetings are available under http://me.etin.gs/sugar-meeting/.