| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 10:04 | SeanDaly | I apologize, I have been completely underwater with work & family and to top it off, the internet access for my new laptop has stopped functioning |
| 10:04 | I was gifted with an iPhone which I have apparently mastered but it's not an ideal platform for doing work on the web | |
| 10:05 | JT4sugar | Technology and time never have enough |
| 10:06 | SeanDaly | still have to get back to Rodrigo |
| 10:06 | I am concerned however about SL trademark policy, it's dead in the water | |
| 10:06 | greets Ron_F | |
| 10:06 | Ron_F | hello SeanDaly! |
| 10:07 | JT4sugar | With Argentina announcemnet we should put out release about XO 1.5 and Sugar |
| 10:07 | SeanDaly | i think to get the trademark policy debate moving again I will need to overhaul the whole thing |
| 10:07 | JT4sugar: yes that's the plan | |
| 10:08 | re XO-1.5 launch PR I would like to do a carefully planned launch in as many languages simultaneously as possible | |
| 10:09 | as I say I need to brief Rodrigo on SL marketing strategy | |
| 10:09 | JT4sugar | Since sounds like Local Lab in Argentina is involved might focus release on local lab angel that helps make these deployments flourish |
| 10:10 | SeanDaly | JT4sugar: yes we have cited creation of Local Labs in PR before |
| 10:11 | in Strawberry release I think | |
| 10:13 | JT4sugar | Check out this link Sugar should get some talk time this week http://www.oecd.org/document/3[…]1_1_37455,00.html |
| 10:14 | The program for event http://www.bildung.at/nml-conf[…]10/?site=programm | |
| 10:14 | SeanDaly | my understanding is that Rodrigo and other OLPC-A people are there |
| 10:15 | Ron_F | There is a non-trivial OLPC Austria group |
| 10:15 | I tried to get a famous decorated children's book author involved with them | |
| 10:15 | BUt he seems too busy | |
| 10:16 | He is known as a translator as well as author | |
| 10:17 | SeanDaly | Ron_F: I believe David of openSUSE is active in Austrian group too |
| 10:17 | Ron_F | I have not looked at their list of names in 6 months |
| 10:18 | JT4sugar | SeanDaly, Yes and Ron Canuel Group Ehanced Learning Strategy Magog Quebec Canada speaking as well who is consulting on professional development with Uruguay |
| 10:18 | Peru, Uruguay, and Paraguay also have speakers | |
| 10:18 | SeanDaly | I considered going but it would have been too difficuult |
| 10:19 | just as well I have had a difficult time these past few weeks | |
| 10:19 | since the OLPC France event which was a success | |
| 10:20 | by the way OLPC is working on a brochure to be printed | |
| 10:21 | JT4sugar | Next week would seem to be a perfect time to engage Rodrigo fresh from the event |
| 10:21 | SeanDaly | JT4sugar: yes I agree |
| 10:22 | the brochure info is on the support-gang list | |
| 10:22 | JT4sugar | Is brochure going to highlight Sugar? |
| 10:22 | SeanDaly | I was a bit put off by anti-Sugar statements from an OLPC person |
| 10:23 | I'm not sure Sugar will be more than "mentioned" | |
| 10:23 | Ron_F | Oh? Like what? |
| 10:23 | SeanDaly | I've been offline these past 4 days so I need to reread the thread |
| 10:23 | Ron_F | Is this because of arguments over keyboard use vs touch? |
| 10:24 | i.e. the forthcoming hradware proposals | |
| 10:24 | SeanDaly | Ron_F: no, it's apparently just old rehash |
| 10:24 | cjb | SeanDaly: oh, what were the statements? |
| 10:25 | Ron_F | But with virtually no non-Sugar deploymenst on OLPC, I do not see what is still problematic |
| 10:25 | SeanDaly | cjb: if you are on support-gang list? |
| 10:26 | cjb | SeanDaly: haven't read it in a while, can look.. thread subject line would be useful |
| 10:26 | SeanDaly | Ron_F: yes it's an odd situation: massive deployment on XO-1, soon massive on XO-1.5, meanwhile Sugar outpacing OLPC platform |
| 10:26 | cjb: challenge: communicate the XO-1.5/Sugar/Gnome experience in 2+2 paragraphs | |
| 10:27 | Ron_F: historically, there has been an unfortunate disconnect between Sugar Labs and large deployments | |
| 10:27 | This is a known problem | |
| 10:27 | and work is ongoning to improve it | |
| 10:27 | e.g. Tomeu visit to South America recently | |
| 10:28 | in fact we are counting on Local labs to fill missing link in the chain | |
| 10:29 | Ron_F | missing link means what? custoimization for local ed systems? |
| 10:29 | JT4sugar | We have a three-prong issue at hand so I believe we need a integrated three prong marketing approach that moves ahead together !. XO 1.5+Sugar 2. SoaS 3. Bringing XO 1 deployments forward |
| 10:30 | SeanDaly | Ron_F: feedback from teachers and ed. depts. (and kids), curricula as studied with Sugar, etc |
| 10:30 | JT4sugar: I agree | |
| 10:30 | XO-1.5 is really exciting | |
| 10:31 | Gnome dual desktop is in my view an important development | |
| 10:31 | cjb | SeanDaly: thanks, found it. I'm glad it got worked out somewhat by the end of the thread, at least. |
| 10:32 | SeanDaly | cjb: I think I'll mail the person privately, in my experience what's best is to propose different phrases, not just criticize |
| 10:32 | cjb | sure |
| 10:32 | at least support-gang's a private list; having tension in private's an improvement over having it in public :) | |
| 10:32 | SeanDaly | past anti-OLPC anti-Sugar marketing by Intel and others has stressed the unfamiliarity of Sugar interface, and that it is not adapted to older kids |
| 10:33 | cjb: :D agreed | |
| 10:33 | JT4sugar | That's very true but that excitement can be quickly dissapated with news from present deployments that Sugar Labs has not been helpful enough-perception rules |
| 10:33 | SeanDaly | but Gnome dual-desktop can lay that assertion to rest |
| 10:33 | JT4sugar: true | |
| 10:33 | in fact I am very much regretting that Ii don't speak Spanish | |
| 10:34 | Ron_F | Does Intel have more than one Linux flavr it likes to use and promote? |
| 10:34 | I recall they sort of customized a version or something? | |
| 10:34 | SeanDaly | Some people have forwarded interesting press links and papers to me in Spanish and I'm struggling with them |
| 10:35 | JT4sugar | cjb, can you supply that thread link? |
| 10:35 | SeanDaly | Ron_F: on the Classmate (pertinent Intel issue), GNU/Linux was a no-no until about 9 months ago |
| 10:35 | cjb | Ron_F: Moblin, now Meego |
| 10:35 | SeanDaly | Canonical missioned an education guy to work on them and others |
| 10:35 | Ron_F | Re: Classmate - I find that surprising |
| 10:35 | yeah Moblin | |
| 10:36 | SeanDaly | as a result, Ubuntu now a referenced preinstall on Classmate |
| 10:36 | cjb | JT4sugar: http://lists.laptop.org/privat[…]ruary/007926.html , if you're on support-gang. looks like it was just a miscommunication. |
| 10:36 | SeanDaly | of course, Windows XP was a referenced preinstall on the XO-1 too |
| 10:36 | JT4sugar | cjb, thanks |
| 10:36 | SeanDaly | refernce <> sales |
| 10:36 | but it's a big step` | |
| 10:37 | Intel could be interested in referencing Sugar | |
| 10:38 | Not sure however which underlying distro could help with that | |
| 10:38 | Ubuntu Sugar remix (dfarning) could be an angle | |
| 10:38 | or fedora | |
| 10:39 | or openSUSE which has an education spin | |
| 10:39 | JT4sugar | Can someone just contact Intel and ask them to add Sugar to their offering it's Free |
| 10:39 | SeanDaly | JT4sugar: at Educatice show in Paris I spent two hours over two days trying to find somebody from Intel |
| 10:40 | They had a huge stand which was empty both days except for brochures | |
| 10:40 | JT4sugar | Need to contact Intel World Ahead program |
| 10:40 | SeanDaly | I've had so much on my plate I haven't been able to advance on that front |
| 10:41 | Ron_F | Does Intel have a problem with Sugar because it is used on OLPC, so that they may feel promoting Sugar legitimates OLPC (i.e. hardware competition) |
| 10:41 | SeanDaly | ideally we could be referenced in time for their Classmate international partners meeting |
| 10:41 | previous one was last JJune in Cairo if i remember correctly | |
| 10:41 | Ubuntu feloow presented | |
| 10:42 | s/feloow/fellow | |
| 10:42 | JT4sugar | A phone call and conversation would at least get an idea of the prospects of Sugar on the classmate offerings |
| 10:43 | SeanDaly | JT4sugar: true |
| 10:43 | it's a sensitive issue for OLPC because Classmate remains chief competitor | |
| 10:44 | this is why I publicly speak about converting exisiting Classmate deployments, as opposed to new ones | |
| 10:44 | JT4sugar | Yes thats very understandable |
| 10:44 | SeanDaly | s/exisiting/existing |
| 10:45 | JT4sugar | I have the Dell 2100 contact I have yet to follow up with awaiting some kind of OK |
| 10:45 | Ron_F | I take it you already have a recipe for the Classmate conversion that works reliably over all models |
| 10:45 | SeanDaly | It would bother me and I am sure many others if a country chose Classmate with Sugar over OLPC XO-1.5 with Sugar |
| 10:45 | Yes we need to follow up Dell 2100 | |
| 10:46 | it's a different market, that machine is not direct competitor to OLPC | |
| 10:46 | Ron_F | I thought SL was "hardware agnostic" |
| 10:46 | SeanDaly | at Educatice Dell had a stand with 24 machines |
| 10:46 | The Dell guy's eyes poppoed out when I showed him my 2100 running Blueberry | |
| 10:47 | I gave him my card but the salon was closing, he was out of cards (should have written down his contact info) | |
| 10:47 | Ron_F: Sugar is indeed hardware agnostic | |
| 10:48 | Ron_F | so what is "It would bother me..."? |
| 10:48 | SeanDaly | what would bother me is Intel's history of undermining OLPC sales |
| 10:48 | This didn't happen in all countries | |
| 10:49 | Ron_F | When Intel reads "It would bother me..." they might think twice about accepting Sugar |
| 10:50 | SeanDaly | as a firm supporter of OLPC i would rather Intel played fair |
| 10:50 | JT4sugar | It would seem that Sugar on a classmate might help XO 1.5 becuase it's lower price and that makes it great choice for developing countries. There is enough customers for everyone to benefit and they all would have Sugar |
| 10:51 | walterbender | apologizes for being late yet again |
| 10:51 | SeanDaly | They are aware of Sugar; contacted Walter last year. I should dig out the contact. However, read recent IDG interview of World Ahead person; instructive |
| 10:51 | greets walterbender | |
| 10:52 | JT4sugar: Classmate's market is large developing countries | |
| 10:53 | dirakx1 | Hello. |
| 10:53 | walterbender | re Intel, I support our working with them on the Classmate... |
| 10:53 | Ron_F | hello dirakx1 |
| 10:54 | dirakx1 | Ron_F: Hi- |
| 10:54 | SeanDaly | walterbender: yes, I too; I had just mentioned that it's a sensitive topic for OLPC |
| 10:54 | greets dirakx1 | |
| 10:55 | Ron_F: if you glance at my OLPC FFrance presentation at L'Atelier BNP Paribas | |
| 10:55 | i have photo of Sugar on XO-1, Gen2 Classmate, Dell 2100 | |
| 10:55 | Ron_F | good |
| 10:56 | dirakx1 | f.e we worked with them, they lend us some classmates (version 2 and 3). |
| 10:56 | JT4sugar | I believe with Dell 2100 and Intel Classmate it's making phone calls and asking "What do we(Sugar Labs) need to do to get on your machines?" Then the question is can we line up support to do it |
| 10:56 | SeanDaly | http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/M[…]eam/Presentations |
| 10:56 | under "2010" | |
| 10:56 | JT4sugar: agreed | |
| 10:57 | let's not underestimate though dev man-days necessary to adapt to hardware | |
| 10:57 | on which distro would Sugar run on Classmate, Dell 2100 ? | |
| 10:58 | Ron_F | How fast is Intel revving their designs? |
| 10:58 | JT4sugar | If we make good enough case to them they should offer development support because it's in their interest |
| 10:58 | SeanDaly | Ron_F: Gen3, the swing-screen tablet, has just had a refresh |
| 10:58 | dirakx1 | i've tested (in classmates) Soas. although strawberry not blueberry. |
| 10:58 | SeanDaly | JT4sugar: yes |
| 10:59 | dirakx1 | bottom line it's fedora |
| 10:59 | SeanDaly | dirakx1: Strawberry and Blueberry boot both my Gen1 and Gen2 Classmates |
| 10:59 | dirakx1 | SeanDaly: nice. |
| 10:59 | walterbender | catching up on the backlog, Ron_F: the Magellan Classmate (perhaps their largest deployment) runs Ciaxa Magica. |
| 10:59 | SeanDaly | dirakx1: I think that's certainly the most mature |
| 10:59 | walterbender | SeanDaly: and the gen 3 Classmare |
| 11:00 | SeanDaly | walterbender: ah yes forgot about that one) is it a Mandriva variant? |
| 11:00 | walterbender | ^mare^mate |
| 11:00 | SeanDaly: yes... the Portuguese version of Mandriva. | |
| 11:00 | SeanDaly | I have not yet found reliable numbers for Classmate deployments |
| 11:01 | between 800K and 1.5 million in the press | |
| 11:01 | counting alll three gens | |
| 11:01 | walterbender | SeanDaly: there are numbers published from Magellan somewhere... |
| 11:01 | SeanDaly | Gen1 was a very, very limited machine though |
| 11:01 | I meant all Classmates; yes I think there are reliable Magellan numbers | |
| 11:02 | need to look | |
| 11:03 | I think I'll arrrange a visit to Mandriva in Paris and talk about it | |
| 11:03 | JT4sugar | With Dell angle we can push a Virtual Machine/Sugar solution that would allow Sugar to be available to thin clients-School district desktops. Then follow on with Soas or on-board Sugar for netbooks |
| 11:04 | SeanDaly | here's a link to IDG article about Classmate Gen3 refresh |
| 11:04 | http://www.pcworld.com/busines[…]ate_netbooks.html | |
| 11:05 | JT4sugar: a key to the 2100 sales pitch is the classroom charger | |
| 11:05 | Dell has very high markup on it | |
| 11:05 | it has magic | |
| 11:05 | can software update charging machines at night while they sleep | |
| 11:05 | thru Ethernet | |
| 11:07 | Ron_F | Do we have any idea how Windows/Linux fractions are breaking on Classmate now that Linux is ok? |
| 11:07 | SeanDaly | http://accessories.us.dell.com[…]s=04&sku=330-4381 |
| 11:07 | that's the charging station | |
| 11:08 | Ron_F | Does Windows on Classmate usually qualify for the $3/unit Microsoft Unlimited Potential price? |
| 11:08 | SeanDaly | Ron_F: to my knowledge Magellan is the only non-WinXP deployment; but it is certainly the largest Classmate deployment |
| 11:08 | Ron_F: I assume that's the case | |
| 11:09 | the charging station has wifi router too | |
| 11:09 | it would be great if we could hook Sugar states into Dell 2100 tattletale light | |
| 11:09 | which is a white LED built into the lid | |
| 11:10 | by default, blinks if wifi activity | |
| 11:10 | but according to dell, can be programmed for e.g. light up when task completed | |
| 11:11 | wat launch, somebody from the project said in an interview that they were looking at several coolored LEDs in the lid for a future version | |
| 11:11 | the idea being to help teacher avoid running around the classroom looking at screens | |
| 11:13 | that charging station only does 24 units though | |
| 11:13 | needs to run soon... | |
| 11:13 | JT4sugar | We need to think about ways to engage Dell and Intel so they bring resources to the effort because Sugar gives their products added Value. Collaboration ability a huge plus. |
| 11:15 | SeanDaly | JT4sugar: dfarning had had some background discussions with Dell a while back (maybe last spring?) |
| 11:15 | he had told me they had said: "let's talk when you can sell 5 million units" | |
| 11:16 | now, leaving aside that SL doesn't sell anything, | |
| 11:16 | walterbender | fwiw, I have had an on-going discussion with Dell... |
| 11:16 | SeanDaly | it's true that it's a chicken-and-egg situation |
| 11:16 | walterbender | we'll get there eventually... |
| 11:16 | SeanDaly | walterbender: yes |
| 11:16 | this is why I am interested in OSOR's offer to reference Sugar for EU administrations (schools) | |
| 11:17 | JT4sugar | Would you like me to call Dell 2100 program manager to find out possibilities? |
| 11:17 | SeanDaly | JT4sugar: ideally, you could work with Walter on that? |
| 11:17 | walterbender | JT4sugar: no reason not to come at them from many different angles... |
| 11:17 | SeanDaly | we should at least be meeting with them to show Suggar running on the 2100 |
| 11:18 | easier said than done, can't fly to Texas every day ;-) | |
| 11:18 | Ron_F | Maybe I should ask OLPC this: when someone comes to OLPC asking to buy 10 evaluation units, what does it tell them? Go to Intel for Classmates? |
| 11:19 | walterbender | Ron_F: maybe CanoeBerry can help you... none of the rest of us speak for OLPC (cjb excepted) |
| 11:19 | JT4sugar | SeanDaly, I will call and see what I can find out-maybe we can get representative to meet you Sean-Where are you now? |
| 11:20 | SeanDaly | JT4sugar: Paris... Dell HQ for France is here |
| 11:20 | cjb | Ron_F: I think we might point at Dell rather than Intel :) |
| 11:20 | (hey, Dell's cheaper!) | |
| 11:21 | Ron_F | Wait - but Dell does not install Suagr, right? |
| 11:21 | SeanDaly | Ron_F: re Intel, keep in mind main Intel selling points: |
| 11:21 | cjb | sure. neither does Intel. |
| 11:21 | SeanDaly | 1) local assembly (jobs), and |
| 11:22 | 2) Intel Learning Series software for teachers (Windows) | |
| 11:22 | Ron_F | So if you want low quantity laptops with Sugar, you must install and support yourself |
| 11:22 | cjb | Ron_F: Correct. |
| 11:23 | Ron_F | Have you "certified" SoaS with certain laptops? |
| 11:23 | cjb | you == Sugar Labs? |
| 11:23 | Ron_F | esp really cheap netbooks |
| 11:23 | SeanDaly | Ron_F: Gerald Ardito deployed XO-1s and Dell 2100s |
| 11:23 | Ron_F | yeah SL |
| 11:23 | SeanDaly | Ron_F: we are looking for a testing program coordinator ;-) |
| 11:23 | Ron_F | lol |
| 11:24 | SeanDaly | it's true... to certify anything we need to test... it's totally ad hoc right now |
| 11:24 | JT4sugar | Wouldn't a Virtual Machine/Sugar Solution be able to be downloaded and run on a windows machine? |
| 11:24 | SeanDaly | which is normal considering how many different sorts of hardware are out there |
| 11:25 | JT4sugar: indeed | |
| 11:25 | if it has the proc cycles | |
| 11:25 | at Educatice I had people gasping when I rebooted a Classmate with WinXP into SoaS from an SD card | |
| 11:26 | Ron_F | Back in the day I ran your use-it-on-Windows version of Sugar a few times |
| 11:26 | SeanDaly | and then back into Windows... to show the Fedora liveusb creator ;-) |
| 11:27 | JT4sugar | A Virtual Machine solution would be very important for school districts because allows them to apply needed(law) internet filters |
| 11:28 | SeanDaly | JT4sugar: |
| 11:29 | Ron_F | Was the WIndows-platform stuff I used years ago more limited than "real" Sugar at that time? |
| 11:29 | SeanDaly | filtering indispensable, whhich is wjy I always mention XS school server in PR and presentations |
| 11:29 | but there are VM variants of Blueberry already, no? | |
| 11:30 | I have very limited Intternet access at home so I haven't been able to test VM under Win7 | |
| 11:31 | satellit | Blueberry vmx and vdi on http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tg[…]eberry-vmx.tar.gz |
| 11:31 | JT4sugar | Yes-in a talk with Oakland Schools Technology Director that was biggest hurdle she said must be satisfied-She said if given VM solution that would allow them to apply safety control needed |
| 11:32 | SeanDaly | thanks satellit |
| 11:32 | Ron_F | I guess Sugar on OLPC uses some special decorated buttons - is a kit of keytop decals needed for other laptops? |
| 11:32 | SeanDaly | JT4sugar: would that be on laptops? desktops? |
| 11:33 | JT4sugar | satellit, Does VM solution allow for backup for Soas? |
| 11:33 | SeanDaly | Ron_F: special OLPC keys are mappped to function keys |
| 11:33 | satellit | only as dd to .img of sticks |
| 11:33 | Ron_F | decals are luxurious, but would be nice |
| 11:34 | SeanDaly | but as stated previously it would be worth our while to discuss Sugarized third-party keybaords with OEMs such as Cherry |
| 11:34 | satellit | should work like any other stick via VB or VMPlayer |
| 11:34 | Ron_F | I Guess youy can tape a strip of paper above the PF keys |
| 11:34 | SeanDaly | JT4sugar: quite possible school server does that |
| 11:34 | JT4sugar | SeanDaly, My understanding is both because they would be offering solutions through a web portal-Virtualized environment allows them to serve students from a central server |
| 11:36 | satellit | also as VM can just copy VM HD |
| 11:41 | SeanDaly | need to sign off.... |
| 11:42 | Ron_F | bids farewell to SeanDaly |
| 11:42 | SeanDaly | #endmeeting |