| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 09:09 | bernie | lurks |
| 09:09 | tomeu | silbe: ok, so you would like to talk about the python DS API? |
| 09:09 | silbe | tomeu: about sugar.datastore.datastore, yep. |
| 09:10 | tomeu | so, agenda items: current release, python DS API |
| 09:11 | erikos: as a release manager, want to take the floor? | |
| 09:11 | erikos | tomeu: that should be enough for today |
| 09:11 | tomeu | s/a/the |
| 09:11 | erikos | ok |
| 09:11 | This is our schedule: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0[…]/Roadmap#Schedule | |
| 09:12 | (please note the colors in the Freeze-box) | |
| 09:12 | we are currently in Feature Freeze | |
| 09:12 | we asked the Features that have not landed yet, to ask for an exception | |
| 09:12 | for those Features that have code already and are in review | |
| 09:13 | this should be more of a 'following the process' | |
| 09:13 | UI Freeze is next week | |
| 09:13 | what I would like to see now is: | |
| 09:13 | (in the next days) | |
| 09:13 | until Wednesday land the Features | |
| 09:14 | produce tarballs, and make a soas build | |
| 09:14 | then do a testing session on Saturday | |
| 09:14 | walterbender | is here |
| 09:14 | erikos | and fix the remaining UI changes (if needed) |
| 09:14 | walterbender | erikos: I'll try to get the color selector patch finished today... |
| 09:15 | erikos | walterbender: awesome |
| 09:15 | does this sound like doable to everybody? | |
| 09:15 | I did soas-images today, so I am in the loop now of producing them | |
| 09:15 | tomeu | I don't have any features myself, but I can help a bit if needed |
| 09:15 | soas images are very important | |
| 09:16 | erikos | tomeu: great! |
| 09:16 | tomeu | should we go through the features list in the wiki? |
| 09:16 | erikos | tomeu: ok |
| 09:16 | http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.88/Feature_List | |
| 09:16 | tomeu | I have to leave in 45 mins approx. |
| 09:17 | erikos | tomeu: ok, we make it quick |
| 09:17 | 1) Enhanced color selector | |
| 09:17 | walterbender: just said he will give us code today | |
| 09:17 | tomeu | nice |
| 09:18 | walterbender: do you know how big is the patch in lines approx.? | |
| 09:18 | walterbender | tomeu: well, it is a very minor change to the patch that aslroot made to my original patch. |
| 09:18 | but that original patch was pretty big. | |
| 09:19 | tomeu: most of patch has been previously reviewed. | |
| 09:19 | tomeu | ok, that's good |
| 09:19 | erikos | walterbender: and we had API change in it, or? |
| 09:19 | walterbender: the color in the toolkit, or? | |
| 09:19 | walterbender | tomeu: the change I am going to make today is reordering some buttons and changing the icons associated with them. |
| 09:20 | erikos, tomeu: actually, I never finished working on the start-screen version... just the control panel version, since I wanted to wait until the design settled. | |
| 09:20 | so that patch could be invasive. | |
| 09:21 | tomeu | ah, it is planned to also change the initial screen? |
| 09:21 | walterbender | my suggestion would be to leave the initial sequence as is for the 0.88 |
| 09:21 | tomeu | great |
| 09:21 | erikos | walterbender: yeah, that might be good |
| 09:22 | ok, I guess next one | |
| 09:22 | 2) Tableview widget and thumbs view | |
| 09:22 | we agreed to not land it in 0.88 | |
| 09:22 | alsroot: tomeu if I am not completely mistaken | |
| 09:23 | should update the page | |
| 09:23 | tomeu | erikos: that's my understanding as well |
| 09:23 | erikos | tomeu: ok |
| 09:23 | 3) 3G Support | |
| 09:24 | tomeu: you said there are two patches open | |
| 09:24 | tomeu: how is the situation there? | |
| 09:24 | tomeu: is the code currently in git working without them? | |
| 09:24 | tomeu: or are those needed to make it fully functional | |
| 09:24 | tomeu | we have three patches |
| 09:25 | erikos | ok |
| 09:25 | tomeu | erikos: the code in git works, at least in paraguay |
| 09:25 | we have 2 from Daniel_C and one from aa | |
| 09:25 | Daniel_C: how are your patches going? | |
| 09:25 | erikos | tomeu: parts of it is reviewed already? |
| 09:25 | tomeu: second round...or... | |
| 09:25 | tomeu | erikos: all three patches have been commented |
| 09:26 | I think they must be very close to land | |
| 09:26 | erikos | tomeu: ok, that is already good |
| 09:26 | tomeu | they change UI, but not API |
| 09:26 | and should affect only to users with 3g devices | |
| 09:26 | so are not too invasive | |
| 09:26 | erikos | tomeu: yup, we need one person taking care of it |
| 09:26 | Daniel_C | tomeu:good, i made your "corrections" |
| 09:27 | tomeu | Daniel_C: nice, I can look at them tomorrow |
| 09:27 | erikos | tomeu: best with a 3G device to do a bit of initial testing, too |
| 09:27 | tomeu | I will be traveling wed to fri, so I won't review those days |
| 09:27 | erikos | tomeu: ok |
| 09:27 | tomeu | erikos: what do you mean? |
| 09:27 | erikos | tomeu: and you have a bit of time tomorrow? |
| 09:27 | tomeu | yes, I will have some time tomorrow |
| 09:27 | erikos | tomeu: I mean, we should split up the work |
| 09:28 | tomeu | (hope the phone company didn't cut my connection at porto) |
| 09:28 | erikos | tomeu: and best give clear responsability for the next days |
| 09:28 | tomeu: so we make sure, everything gets in | |
| 09:28 | (if possible) | |
| 09:28 | summarizes | |
| 09:29 | we need a revieweer for color selector and one for 3G | |
| 09:29 | tomeu | we have still more features, right? |
| 09:29 | erikos | tomeu: just summarized those two points ;p |
| 09:29 | 3) Write to journal anytime | |
| 09:29 | well, ... | |
| 09:30 | in the design meeting we agreed to not go to the Journal detail view directly (when clsoing an activity) | |
| 09:30 | (for 0.88) | |
| 09:31 | we wanted to add a description button to the toolbar | |
| 09:31 | silbe | erikos: hu? So you changed the decision from the meeting before? |
| 09:31 | erikos | silbe: yup |
| 09:31 | silbe | erikos: Why? |
| 09:31 | erikos | silbe: we first want to explore the behavior in testing |
| 09:31 | silbe | erikos: But you still throw out the naming alert? |
| 09:31 | erikos | silbe: as this is an invasive change, we don't want to just do it |
| 09:32 | silbe: I think that was the idea, yes | |
| 09:32 | silbe | erikos: I don't think changing only one half is a good idea. |
| 09:33 | tomeu | is a bit lost, what half we want to have in 0.88 and what half don't? |
| 09:33 | erikos | silbe: well, the naming alert was a half baked solution already ;p |
| 09:33 | silbe: so we end up at zero | |
| 09:34 | silbe | Not sure I agree with that, but it's a topic for the design team, not the development one, so let's continue with our agenda. |
| 09:34 | erikos | tomeu: ok, we have the naming alert atm |
| 09:35 | tomeu: for 0.88 we want to get rid of it | |
| 09:35 | tomeu: initially we wanted to replace the behavior with going to the J-detail view | |
| 09:35 | tomeu: so, we don't seem to be fully sure about it | |
| 09:35 | tomeu: so, we don't so it | |
| 09:36 | tomeu: the question was now: whether to remove the naming alert then or not | |
| 09:36 | tomeu | so the design team has decided to remove the naming alert? |
| 09:36 | walterbender | erikos: I would explain it a bit differently... |
| 09:36 | erikos | walterbender: ok, please do ;p |
| 09:36 | walterbender | (1) we want kids to write notes to the journal |
| 09:37 | (2) we put the naming alert in to enable/encourage that | |
| 09:37 | (3) It failed on three counts: 1. only worked on exit; 2. confusing; 3. not well integrated. | |
| 09:38 | (4) we could make the naming alert available at any time to address #1 | |
| 09:38 | (5) we could have the naming alert take you directly into a journal view to address #2,3 | |
| 09:39 | (6) or, more simply, replace the naming alert with a little text entry widget | |
| 09:39 | erikos | walterbender: ok, thanks that is much better then my phrasing |
| 09:39 | walterbender | We decided on 6 at the design meeting because we thought it would be achievable |
| 09:39 | erikos | walterbender: right |
| 09:39 | walterbender | we have too many open design issues for #5 |
| 09:40 | erikos | walterbender: the problem with 6 is, that I did not get mockups |
| 09:40 | walterbender: and it adds API | |
| 09:40 | tomeu | what if we do nothing about it for 0.88.0 and if the testing reaches any conclusions, we backport the solution into 0.88.x? |
| 09:40 | erikos | walterbender: and I only have initial code, though it is quite simple |
| 09:40 | tomeu: that might be wise, indeed | |
| 09:40 | tomeu | I mean, I don't think it's fair to remove resources for landing what is in the queue for landing something we aren't sure about yet |
| 09:40 | silbe | tomeu: that would be my preference as well so we don't do any half-baked "solution" again |
| 09:41 | tomeu | right |
| 09:41 | walterbender | FWIW, my original proposal was just to make the current naming alert available on demand instead of forced at the end of the session, avoiding the design issue altogether until we had a better solution. |
| 09:41 | tomeu | I think it's needed to guess when we first implement some UI element, but each time we rework it, we should increase the bar |
| 09:41 | walterbender | I still think that plan has merit as it has a big return for minimal change and it leaves open the eventual design decision for later. |
| 09:42 | tomeu | because otherwise, we are going to be changing the same things every release, I'm afraid |
| 09:42 | erikos | walterbender: that is somehow what we said in (6), just that it is integrated into the toolbar directly |
| 09:42 | tomeu | the experience testing that is going to happen is very encouraging in that sense |
| 09:42 | walterbender | erikos: I agree that that is what we said, but to Tomeu's point, that is a more invasive change... |
| 09:42 | erikos | walterbender: yup |
| 09:43 | tomeu: if we would backport something, can we remove then something as well? | |
| 09:43 | walterbender | but if we have the resources, I am in favor. |
| 09:43 | erikos | tomeu: for example if we do (6), and backport to 0.88 |
| 09:43 | tomeu: can we rmove then the naming alert, too? | |
| 09:43 | tomeu | erikos: I think we can consider backporting things only when downstreams ask for it really strongly |
| 09:43 | but need to take into account documentation | |
| 09:44 | erikos | oh, yeah :/ |
| 09:44 | tomeu | as in we need to update it and be conscious about the confusion it can bring |
| 09:44 | same for gconf switches that enable and disable things in the UI | |
| 09:44 | erikos | yes |
| 09:44 | tomeu | with those caveats, we can do something else than waiting 6 months |
| 09:45 | erikos | ok, I think let's see it positive |
| 09:45 | walterbender | tomeu: on the one hand, there is noone downstream who currently uses 0.84 (yet) so the naming alert is still in their future |
| 09:45 | erikos | is using 0.84 |
| 09:45 | tomeu | walterbender: well, there is simon ;) |
| 09:45 | walterbender | tomeu: on the other hand, there is about to be a major push to 0.84 |
| 09:45 | erikos | disabled the naming alert ;D |
| 09:45 | walterbender | I think now is the time to intercede, before the naming alert is deployed |
| 09:45 | tomeu | walterbender: we have backported several features to 0.84 because downstream asked for them |
| 09:46 | walterbender | tomeu: there has been a lot of downstream pull re a better way to writing notes to the journal |
| 09:46 | tomeu | walterbender: unfortunately, downstreams aren't enough involved to validate the new designs |
| 09:46 | walterbender | tomeu: and several deployments (e.g., Gerald in NY) will fork to get it if we don't provide it for them) |
| 09:46 | tomeu | yet |
| 09:46 | erikos | walterbender: we can backport to 0.84 if we agree on it |
| 09:47 | walterbender: we make tests this week in two deployments | |
| 09:47 | walterbender: for the start new vs resume | |
| 09:47 | silbe | What about adding a toolbar button that takes you to the Journal details view? We already have API for that (Browse uses it for downloads). |
| 09:47 | tomeu | walterbender: as a developer, I mostly care about changes that affect the stability of the code |
| 09:47 | erikos | walterbender: I guess we can do the naming alert next week then |
| 09:47 | tomeu | walterbender: if the design team is really sure that something is better, we can implement it |
| 09:47 | if the downsteams are really sure they want something, we can implement it | |
| 09:47 | walterbender | tomeu: yes. But I also think in this project, we need to consider the impact on learning !!! |
| 09:47 | tomeu | but those groups needs to be really sure about what they are doing |
| 09:48 | walterbender | downstream is sure that they want some way to write notes to the Journal |
| 09:48 | tomeu | walterbender: what I'm saying is that I don't think it's me who needs to decide that |
| 09:49 | walterbender | tomeu: but we lean on yo to help us figure a path from where we are to where they want to be with minimal impact on stability now and later. |
| 09:49 | tomeu | walterbender: but as a regular member of the community, I warn about changes done by urgency, without a process |
| 09:50 | walterbender: well, as a developer, I expect the community to say: this is what we need, and we need it in that release | |
| 09:50 | that isn't so easy | |
| 09:50 | in the design meetings, there wasn't much input from deployers | |
| 09:50 | walterbender | tomeu: I am not sure what you are implying... as far as when it lands, that is one thing, but there certainly has been process used in this decision. |
| 09:51 | tomeu | walterbender: well, the process followed would make it land in 0.90 |
| 09:51 | walterbender | tomeu: I didn't propose the feature unilaterally. I proposed it in discussion with deployers. |
| 09:51 | tomeu: deployers have been involved. | |
| 09:51 | tomeu | walterbender: ok, that;s fine with me then |
| 09:51 | walterbender | but tomeu, I can live with the 0.90 decision. |
| 09:52 | tomeu | what I _really_ would like to see, is a final push to finish with 0.88.0 as planned |
| 09:52 | walterbender | I will just help Gerald with his fork--we'll get more testing done that way. |
| 09:52 | tomeu | and then see what we can do further |
| 09:52 | walterbender | and merge again for 0.90 |
| 09:52 | tomeu | forks can be very useful in this regard |
| 09:52 | walterbender: we can merge before 0.90, as I said before | |
| 09:52 | walterbender | tomeu: my biggest concern actually is that all of the 0.84 deployments will be getting the naming alert... |
| 09:52 | erikos | walterbender: I can understand that this Feature is important for you |
| 09:52 | tomeu | but any feature backports need to be carefully discussed |
| 09:53 | walterbender | maybe we should consider removing it now. |
| 09:53 | tomeu | should we move to the next one and continue this on the ml? |
| 09:53 | walterbender | before a broken idea is deployed widely. |
| 09:53 | tomeu | needs to take a plane |
| 09:53 | silbe | tomeu: +1 |
| 09:53 | walterbender | OK. |
| 09:54 | erikos | ok |
| 09:54 | tomeu | Enhanced Gettext |
| 09:54 | erikos | I think the only item eft is activity version |
| 09:54 | tomeu: oh yeah and that one | |
| 09:54 | tomeu | is that going to land |
| 09:54 | ? | |
| 09:54 | unmadindu: what needs to happen before it lands? | |
| 09:54 | that page says it's at 10% | |
| 09:54 | erikos | tomeu: yes, unmadindu wasn't aten by a bear in the end |
| 09:55 | tomeu: I made a first review | |
| 09:55 | tomeu: and a second one even | |
| 09:55 | unmadindu | tomeu: which one ? the locale dir or the settings-manager ? |
| 09:55 | erikos | tomeu: we land it today! |
| 09:55 | unmadindu: locale | |
| 09:55 | tomeu | wow, great |
| 09:55 | erikos | unmadindu: don't say something contrary ;p |
| 09:56 | tomeu | ok, so if erikos and unmadindu have it under control, shall we move to the next one? |
| 09:56 | unmadindu | erikos: nothing much - I need to do pep8 and incorporate erikos's feedback. the de vs de_DE can be fixed as a bugfix IMHO |
| 09:56 | erikos | tomeu: ok, the activity version |
| 09:56 | tomeu: I need to do a bit of testing what is wrong | |
| 09:56 | tomeu | and " Font configuration "? |
| 09:56 | erikos | tomeu: hopefully today, too |
| 09:57 | tomeu: nothing to do here for the UI | |
| 09:57 | tomeu: will be 0.90 | |
| 09:57 | tomeu | yeah, activity version was quite close already |
| 09:57 | silbe | unmadindu: does it fix #622 as well? (i.e. configurable "system" translation location) |
| 09:57 | tomeu | ok, but font size config is going to land soon? |
| 09:57 | packagers need time to package the settings manager | |
| 09:57 | unmadindu | silbe: yes |
| 09:57 | silbe | unmadindu: awesome! |
| 09:58 | erikos | tomeu: I thought it is functional without the manager |
| 09:58 | unmadindu | tomeu: I can make a release tonight. or we can take some time to pack it as a binary with sugar |
| 09:58 | erikos | tomeu: vie gconf |
| 09:58 | unmadindu | erikos: you need to restart sugar without manager |
| 09:58 | erikos | unmadindu: that is fine for me |
| 09:58 | tomeu | hmm |
| 09:58 | erikos | unmadindu: as a first start |
| 09:58 | tomeu | unmadindu: but we don't have an UI to change it anyway |
| 09:58 | erikos | hehe |
| 09:58 | tomeu | so I guess it is something that the deployer sets? |
| 09:58 | unmadindu | yeah |
| 09:58 | tomeu | trying to understand it |
| 09:59 | erikos | I guess we don't need to rush it then |
| 09:59 | but can already work on it, to get it into 0.90 | |
| 09:59 | tomeu | unmadindu: so in your opinion, the settings manager is useful only if we have an UI to change the font in sugar? |
| 09:59 | erikos | UI and manager |
| 09:59 | unmadindu | yes |
| 09:59 | so let me make a release | |
| 09:59 | but lets not make sugar 0.88 depend on it | |
| 10:00 | tomeu | unmadindu: +1 it may be backported if a deployment really wants an UI |
| 10:00 | unmadindu | this give more time for packagers |
| 10:00 | erikos | unmadindu: please do the locale feature then first |
| 10:00 | unmadindu | tomeu: yes |
| 10:00 | tomeu | it can be very useful for accessibility |
| 10:00 | unmadindu | erikos: sure - will do |
| 10:00 | erikos | unmadindu: perfect ;p |
| 10:00 | tomeu | unmadindu: so maybe we can include it as a sugar module but not make the shell depend on it? |
| 10:00 | unmadindu | tomeu: yeah - but then we need to do some kind of conditional start up, or else deployments have to patch sugar as well |
| 10:01 | tomeu | unmadindu: hmm, why? |
| 10:01 | erikos | has to go now |
| 10:01 | can we give out action items? | |
| 10:01 | tomeu | I'm just taking into account the possibility that a 0.88.2 release will depend on it |
| 10:01 | unmadindu | tomeu: someone needs to start the sugar-settings-manager process, and it needs to start early. also we need to get rid of some code from sugar |
| 10:02 | tomeu | unmadindu: ok, those changes would be in 0.88.2 |
| 10:02 | unmadindu | tomeu: see http://pastebin.be/23210 for an example |
| 10:02 | tomeu | erikos: ok |
| 10:02 | unmadindu | tomeu: ok, sounds fine to me |
| 10:02 | silbe | erikos: when are you on IRC again so we can discuss the data store stuff? |
| 10:02 | erikos | silbe: in a bit |
| 10:02 | tomeu | unmadindu: great, this is a very important feature for sugar |
| 10:02 | silbe | erikos: ok, great. |
| 10:03 | tomeu | silbe: I won't have time today, sorry :/ |
| 10:03 | so, quickly, action items | |
| 10:03 | silbe | tomeu: but tomorrow? |
| 10:03 | tomeu | I will be reviewing patches |
| 10:03 | erikos | tomeu: 3G? |
| 10:03 | tomeu | silbe: I think so |
| 10:03 | erikos: yup | |
| 10:03 | erikos | who takes enhaved color selctor? |
| 10:03 | silbe | tomeu: do you have time tomorrow as well? |
| 10:04 | tomeu | I could take it if needed |
| 10:04 | erikos | does continue with saya and the locale one |
| 10:04 | tomeu | silbe: I think so, but need to see if I have still net at home |
| 10:04 | silbe | tomeu: ok, let's try to meet tomorrow then. |
| 10:05 | tomeu | silbe: yup, sorry for not being able to tell a time |
| 10:05 | Daniel_C: will you attach the reviewed patches and set the r? flag? | |
| 10:05 | silbe | tomeu: no problem. If it doesn't work out we'll do it by email. |
| 10:06 | tomeu | that's good |
| 10:06 | erikos | tomeu: ok, I let you take the enhenced one then |
| 10:06 | tomeu: i will update the release items then in the meantime | |
| 10:06 | runs | |
| 10:06 | Daniel_C | tomeu: ok |
| 10:07 | silbe | ok, anything left to discuss now? |
| 10:07 | tomeu | anybody is left afraid of his feature not landing in time? |
| 10:09 | if not, I guess we can close this meeting | |
| 10:10 | #closemeeting | |
| 10:10 | #stopmeeting | |
| 10:10 | hmm | |
| 10:10 | silbe | try #endmeeting |
| 10:10 | tomeu | #endmeeting |