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#sugar-meeting meeting, 2010-01-15 14:37:00

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Time Nick Message
14:38 mchua sdziallas: where were we?
14:38 sdziallas last thing was the roadmap to the development build.
14:38 mchua #link http://meeting.olpcorps.net/su[…]0100115_1316.html
14:38 #link http://meeting.olpcorps.net/su[…]0100115_1316.html
14:38 for the old continuation.
14:38 #topic roadmap for development build
14:38 #chair sdziallas
14:39 bernie joins in
14:39 mchua #info Deployment contingency plan: Blueberry
14:39 We're all agreed on that.
14:39 sdziallas heh! okey dokey, so let's see.
14:39 nods
14:39 #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.88/Roadmap
14:39 mchua: from looking at that, I'd target getting you 0.87.4
14:40 mchua sdziallas: how about dates for (1) target development version ready for testing, (2) deployment, and (3) the go/no-go decision date on whether to go with Blueberry or dev version?
14:40 sdziallas which would be equivalent to feature freeze.
14:40 mchua nods
14:40 sdziallas mchua: I guess testing should happen at some point in February.
14:41 mchua I'm around and can go just about anytime.
14:41 so it's about what works best for you.
14:41 sdziallas okay.
14:41 well, there are a few things I want to get done in time.
14:41 for example the kids shouldn't get a hot-dog when it boots ;)
14:42 so the boot screen has some priority. as well as getting new activities (basically, as many as possible) in.
14:42 mchua awww!
14:42 I'm actually not so worried about new Activities - they'll be using SoaS to support existing class work.
14:42 sdziallas I think since we might have settled the TM issues for Fedora & SoaS, we could even get nightly builds sooooon.
14:42 mchua: ah yeah, right! well, if there's anything that's *definitely* needed, just holler!
14:42 mchua The ones I'd say are must-haves are Browse and Write, to be honest.
14:42 That's it.
14:43 I'd *like* to have TurtleArt and Speak.
14:43 I'm not sure of the state of Record with various netbook webcams, but that would also be second-tier.
14:43 nice to have but not vital to have.
14:43 Everything else is a bonus, no matter how much I like it.
14:43 sdziallas Those should be already all in! :)
14:43 mchua Yep, so we're good already
14:44 for Activities.
14:44 sdziallas #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Sugar_Activities
14:44 mchua #info must-have Activities are Write and Browse
14:44 #info good-to-have Activities are Record, TurtleArt, and Speak
14:44 #info everything else is cool but not as important
14:44 sdziallas #action state of activities will be tracked in the wiki
14:45 bernie sdziallas: when you're done, please give me voice and I'll update you on some of the soas hacking  I've done while flying to paraguay
14:45 mchua sdziallas: now, how do you want that tracked - under the ASLO activity, under SoaS, under the deployment?
14:45 I'd like to upstream my testing as far up the stream as possible.
14:45 sdziallas bernie: whoa, cool :) I will.
14:45 mchua: you mean whether they work or not or...?
14:46 mchua sdziallas: Yeah, seems like we have 3 different places we can keep track of the state of activities - or maybe 4. ASLO for the activity, where-the-Activity-is-being-developed, SoaS tracker, CFS deployment tracker.
14:47 sdziallas mchua: mhm!
14:47 mchua sdziallas: so pick one and I'll use it.
14:48 sdziallas mchua: I'd like to come back to you on that.
14:49 mchua Sure. What do we need to address first?
14:51 Oh, in the meantime:
14:51 #info must-have Sugar features: back-up of Journal (even if it's a painful manual process)
14:51 sdziallas (I'd like to comment on that, actually)
14:52 mchua It would be nice to have Collaboration, but it's not vital. Same for view source. The kids are 6-7, we don't have time to cover Python with them... I think it'd be cool for them to discover it and play, but it won't block us if it doesn't work.
14:52 sdziallas: go for it.
14:52 sdziallas notes the collab point.
14:53 mchua: there are two ways, I guess. you can either cp ~/.sugar from each key... or we try to implement a backup solution (which would mean that we'd need a school server).
14:53 (the latter point includes some SoaS hacking which is why I'd need to know)
14:53 mchua sdziallas: how much effort do you think it'd entail to do the school server?
14:54 if it might take more than 8 hours total of work between the two of us, I'd say I'll just do cp.
14:54 sdziallas mchua: I'm actually not sure. For SoaS on the client side, probably not much. On the server-side, I've absolutely no experience.
14:54 mchua: daveb would probably know.
14:54 mchua I have enough experience with testing the server side to think that 8 hours is likely to be a severe underestimate. ;)
14:55 sdziallas grins
14:55 mchua but that was a year ago, and things have likely changed since.
14:55 still, I'd rather spend my time on... things other than catching up with that.
14:55 And yours on things other than trying to figure it out.
14:55 If we find free time and happen to do it along the way, that's a big bonus, but I don't think it's really a goal.
14:55 from my point of view.
14:55 sdziallas nods
14:56 mchua Ok, let's talk about how the rhythm of how we're going to do QA/support/dev once the pilot actually gets underway.
14:56 #topic Support cycle/infrastructure
14:56 again, this is just end-of-Feb through end-of-May.
14:56 So we have the luxury of being able to experiment with stuff.
14:56 is quite adventurous.
14:57 sdziallas :)
14:57 mchua sdziallas: is the SoaS weekly meeting the place for me to come and catch up and give feedbacks and update on bugs found?
14:57 or is there another/better one?
14:57 sdziallas mchua: we've had the Fedora Sugar meetings so far. I guess we could just turn those into SoaS meetings.
14:57 mchua: (since there's just a lot of overlap)
14:57 mchua Oh, I would be all for doing it in the Fedora Sugar meeting - SoaS is a subset of that, this deployment is a subset of SoaS
14:58 (I'd keep it a general Fedora Sugar meeting though since there's value in keeping that umbrella open to other things as well)
14:58 sdziallas okay... (well, there's not much going on atm, but will be good!)
14:59 so you'll want to drop by on Thursdays.
14:59 bernie mchua: I think there should be more coordination between the various Fedora + Sugar distros: SoaS, F11 for XO.15, F11 for XO-1...
14:59 *XO-1.5
14:59 mchua sdziallas: I can do that.
14:59 sdziallas bernie: whoa, olpc is already at XO-15? :) can I have an omlet please?
15:00 mchua: well, I need to organize those much better...
15:00 mchua bernie: I agree, but I'm not sure what we can do to help with that within the scope of this particular pilot other than get really good testing done for SoaS with it, and push that to upstreams and other distros as much as possible.
15:00 sdziallas mchua: but yeah, we can put this effort in there; I'd love to, infact.
15:01 (bernie: actually, I'd like to bring a point up to you when we're talking about your SoaS hacking, too)
15:01 mchua great. sdziallas, can you remind me what time/channel they are?
15:01 (#info)
15:01 could look it up, but is lazy ;)
15:02 sdziallas #info Fedora Sugar Weekly Meetings happen on Thursdays, 1500 UTC in #fedora-olpc
15:02 #link http://sdziallas.com/blog/seba[…]ing-to-sugar.html
15:03 mchua #info We'll be doing our weekly sync-up and check-in for this deployment at that meeting.
15:04 Ok. Now, where to keep notes and such in between meetings...
15:04 bernie sdziallas: you know, OLPC had to keep up with the competition of Chritoph's XO-10...
15:04 mchua sdziallas: bugtracker?
15:04 sdziallas bernie: lol!
15:04 bernie sdziallas: http://www.olpcnews.com/commen[…]pc_sugarlabs.html
15:05 sdziallas: the talk is over 1h, but it's worth it
15:05 sdziallas mchua: reply required now? well, here's the thing: if SL stays for a reasonable amount of time with trac, it doesn't make sense to have stuff excluded. or if we really want to, we should move towards Fedora, as we'll become part of their spin process.
15:05 bernie mchua: I agree
15:05 mchua: (regarding the "push everything upstream")
15:06 sdziallas mchua: yeah, we need to set this straight (bugtracker-wise). sounds good to use one for inter-meeting-communication.
15:06 bernie: cool, thanks - will look at it!
15:06 mchua sdziallas: No reply required until I start testing (whenever that is - it's your call on when you give me things to test ;) but between then and end-of-pilot at the end of May I'll need a bugtracker.
15:06 sdziallas bernie: do you know what the current plan for a SL bugtracker is?
15:06 mchua: okay :)
15:06 mchua It needn't stay the same throughout, but I'm not going to be the one doing the infrastructure/ticket/data migration if we switch. ;)
15:06 I'm happy to relearn a new user interface every week, if it comes to that.
15:06 bernie sdziallas: does everyone like launchpad, or shall we switch back to trac?
15:07 mchua but I am not doing any admin stuff for the queue... I just want a place to put tickets, find them, and keep track of them.
15:07 bernie sdziallas: the LP for sugarlabs thing is not going to happen anytime soon, I'm afraid
15:07 sdziallas: if we move trac to sunjammer, we gain 4x the speed
15:07 sdziallas mchua: well, I'd like to make it as easy as possible for you and continue to use what we use here then.
15:07 bernie sdziallas: still bad, imho... and trac is unmaintainable piece of crap
15:07 mchua I'll use any queue in any bugtracker. Heck, I'd use a wiki page or a long plaintext document. But I hope I don't have to do the latter. ;)
15:08 sdziallas bernie: well, as I said... it doesn't make sense to have another seperate bug tracker - even less when it becomes a Fedora Spin.
15:08 mchua: *grin* :) we won't let it get that far.
15:08 bernie mchua: actually, I *do* use a plaintext document for my todo list... and I find it awesome. the best tracker I've ever used from a usability pov :-)
15:08 is a weirdo
15:08 mchua I don't know what SL/SoaS infra policies are, but if there's a proprietary bugtracker you want to use, I'll grimace, put up with it, and use that as a learn-about-usability-design experience for filing enhancement requests for open source bugtrackers. ;)
15:09 sdziallas bernie: I noticed a significant decrease of SoaS triaging help from SL people after we switched to LP.
15:09 mchua bernie: not a weirdo at all; I love plaintext + yum + grep as a system.
15:09 bernie mchua: never heard of it...
15:09 mchua s/yum/ack
15:09 can't write today
15:09 sdziallas mchua: I've actually found a quite good looking one, but I guess I don't want to have that additionally on my plate.
15:09 bernie sdziallas: ok, we should probably switch back then
15:10 sdziallas: do you think steven parrish would also like to use our trac?
15:10 sdziallas bernie: I dunno - or probably RH's BZ. I guess those are the two choices we have. And I've been told BZ sucked. ;)
15:10 bernie: we can ask!
15:11 bernie sdziallas: yeah, I hate BZ even more than trac
15:11 mchua doesn't care, just needs to know where.
15:11 sdziallas mchua: yeah :)
15:11 bernie sdziallas: I used BZ in my company for a long time, before switching to trac
15:11 mchua sdziallas: can I #action you to just let me know at some point before you dump a test image on me?
15:12 sdziallas bernie: however, if we drop LP, we'll need a new Q&A site.
15:12 mchua I'll figure everything else out after that point.
15:12 sdziallas mchua: sure thing!
15:12 bernie sdziallas: was the LP Q&A good?
15:12 sdziallas bernie: It was pretty popular, indeed.
15:12 mchua #action sdziallas tell mchua what bugtracker to use before handing her a test image.
15:13 I think the only other thing we need is an IRC channel and a wiki page.
15:13 bernie sdziallas: we may want to discuss bug tracker options with tomeu and erikos later... let's postpone for now 'cause it will take a lot of time imho
15:13 mchua #action mchua make pilot wiki page on SL wiki
15:13 sdziallas: in between meetings, where should I ask questions (probably of you)?
15:13 bernie sdziallas: we may also ask lfaraone an update regarding the LP branding saga
15:13 mchua #fedora-sugar, #sugar, etc?
15:14 bernie mchua: can we use the sl wiki and the #sugar channel?
15:14 sdziallas mchua: #sugar, I guess. #fedora-olpc has been used for meetings only...
15:14 mchua SL wiki is already a yes, and I would be happy with #sugar.
15:14 #info default channel for the project is #sugar
15:14 bernie mchua: if needed, I could setup a separate wiki... but there needs to be someone willing to maintain it
15:14 mchua that makes sense, keep all the convos in one place.
15:14 bernie: I don't want a separate wiki.
15:15 I want to use existing tools and infrastructure whenever possible - I want to do as little work as possible, I'm lazy. ;)
15:15 bernie mchua: I guess one day #sugar will become too crowded and we'll decide to split off subchannels such as #sugar-distro, #sugar-sys...
15:15 mchua: as #fedora did...
15:16 mchua: until the amount of traffic becomes annoying, there's connectivity value in keeping everything on #sugar
15:17 mchua I agree completely.
15:17 Anything else we need to figure out for the deployment before next Thursday's check-in?
15:18 sdziallas, I think we're pretty good from my side... how about you?
15:18 sdziallas mchua: same here!
15:18 mchua: thanks for getting this rolling already :)
15:19 mchua All righty. I'll make that page stub and throw these meeting notes on 'em.
15:19 Thanks, everyone!
15:19 #endmeeting

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