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#sugar-meeting meeting, 2009-06-02 10:01:00

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
10:02 homunq_ First off, roll call, who's here?
10:02 mchua is here
10:03 homunq_ welcome to mchua, and it's great that you're doing better. yay.
10:03 assimd is also here
10:03 iwikiwi team print, but only the student is here
10:03 bemasc is here.  Not only is mchua doing better, she has a job and stuff!
10:03 mchua you folks will be hearing from me on the mailing list about getting local Sugar pilots near you so you can actually see kids use the stuff you're building. Stay tuned. ;)
10:04 homunq_ assimd, walterbender, lucian1900, you're here too?
10:04 SeanDaly Hi mchua!
10:04 iwikiwi hehe, nice mchua
10:04 assimd homunq_: I am
10:05 homunq_ bryanwb last seen 2 hours ago on #sugar...
10:05 and silbe not here. grrr.... that boy has no excuse.
10:06 OK. Personally, my first order of business was to re-emphasize the importance of these meetings.
10:06 iwikiwi subzero and bryan were discussing earlier in the morning, your night i guess
10:06 tomeu here!
10:07 homunq_ I know that it's always a little silly, because the ones that need to hear it most are absent
10:07 sdziallas is here, too
10:08 BryanWB sorry i am late
10:08 homunq_ but GSoC is supposed to be a full-time job for students and a serious commitment for mentors too. We really should be here for the meetings. I have missed some myself and I apologize, but now that we're really in session, we should be here
10:08 heh, welcome BryanWB and subzero
10:08 was just doing a mini-scold, which is done now.
10:09 subzero homunq: hi
10:09 homunq_ OK. Let's get updates.
10:09 #topic groupthink bemasc assimd
10:10 bemasc, you first
10:10 subzero BryanWB: sorry, I'm reading your last email
10:10 bemasc My thing is working. You can try it.
10:11 iwikiwi bemasc++
10:11 homunq_ I don't want to get too distracted by this issue, but is there a quick explanation of what you see the relationship to google wave?
10:11 assimd bemasc: : hi, I was just downloading you xo package.
10:11 bemasc It's frustrating that Google has come out with a fairly direct competitor right as my stuff is finally ready.
10:11 bernie tomeu: /me goes check the backups
10:11 tomeu bemasc: I don't think it makes your solution any less deployable, for now
10:11 homunq_ is the part of google wave that competes, open-source?
10:11 tomeu or for the next few years
10:11 mchua will be quiet for a few min, typing break
10:12 bemasc So... Wave is meant to be basically a multi-server version of Gobby.
10:12 The the algorithm is client-server from the clients' perspective, but it's a distributed asynchronous system from the servers' perspective.
10:12 Everyone could run a server, but that's not the use case they're optimizing for.
10:13 Groupthink has been set up the other way.
10:13 The other difference is the algorithm itself.  They're using a classic Operational Transformation setup.  I haven't read through it in detail, but I think it's probably one of the standard algorithms like adOPTed.
10:14 My system uses a crazy homebrew algorithm that works quite differently internally, though the results are probably equivalent.
10:14 Anyway, my API has a number of layers, and eventually it might be possible to switch in Wave behind the top layer without activity authors noticing.
10:15 homunq_: They've said that they are going to release source code soon.  Code for what, exactly, I'm not sure.
10:15 homunq_ OK. Good enough for me.
10:16 how about the mentor-student relationship between you two?
10:16 (which is atypical and that's OK. but is it healthy?)
10:16 assimd homunq_: we had a discussion once.
10:17 and his is algorithm is great
10:17 iwikiwi was part of the algo explanation as well
10:18 bemasc I think we've pretty much found our happy place.
10:18 homunq_ I guess the bottom line is, are you both clear about what would lead to the project failing, or otherwise not living up to its reasonable potential, so you can avoid that?
10:18 assimd bemasc: It was a nice discussion that day.
10:20 homunq_ as long as there's some explicit understanding of how the evaluation will work, that's not just "of course you pass because you're awesome", then you're cool.
10:20 I mean, not that that's not true :)
10:21 bemasc I don't think this is something we can resolve right now, but maybe assimd and I can test out SharedTextDemo a little later and see if it actually works.
10:21 homunq_ OK
10:21 assimd homunq_: I would be testing his demo right now. and provide him with feedback.
10:22 homunq_ OK. I suggest you have a short conversation that's a little more meta
10:22 and next.
10:22 #topic karma subzero BryanWB
10:22 subzero I have almost completed "can and can't" activity, the sound part is troublesome
10:23 now, I'm focusing in "quadrilaterals" activity
10:23 yesterday BryanWB and me discussed about name conventions.. our decision is the linux way
10:23 BryanWB ... file-naming conventions
10:23 homunq_ subzero: did you see the thread on canvas and rescaling?
10:23 BryanWB homunq_: i didn't, when did it take place? on sugar-devel?
10:23 subzero homunq: about dpi in browse
10:24 homunq_ yeah
10:24 subzero BryanWB: yes, sugar-devel
10:24 homunq_ (to both)
10:24 iwikiwi slibe! yo!
10:24 silbe sorry to be late...
10:24 subzero homunq: afaik, setting dpi= 96 is a useful patch
10:25 tomeu BryanWB: would be good to check where we stand with 0.84 (FF 3.5)
10:25 BryanWB tomeu: u mean test FF 3.5 on 0.84?
10:25 homunq_ subzero: well, since you are targeting existing sugar somewhat, I think you should use the workaround
10:26 subzero tomeu: well, html5 <sound> , <video> works with ff3.5 beta 4 +
10:26 tomeu was referring to the scaling thing
10:27 also there's a new cairo, etc
10:27 BryanWB tomeu: i need to read up on the issue as i don't understand it
10:27 caroline was anyone looking for me?
10:27 homunq_ caroline: not to my knowledge. If anyone was, can you pm her?
10:27 subzero BryanWB: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]9-May/014321.html
10:27 BryanWB subzero: tks
10:28 tomeu BryanWB: I also haven't fully grasped it, as in his opinion there's no action item for us
10:28 homunq_ OK. Sounds as if you two are good. subzero, link for your latest update?
10:29 subzero homunq_: so sorry, I haven't uploaded... I don't have my computer
10:29 homunq_ forgot to ask bemasc for that, because I saw it, but please bemasc too post your link
10:29 subzero homunq_: BryanWB has told me to upload any any change...
10:29 bemasc http://lists.sugarlabs.org/arc[…]-June/014795.html
10:30 homunq_ subzero: I meant a narrative update somewhere on the web (wiki, blog, ml link, whatever)
10:31 subzero homunq_: since I haven't finished,  I haven't posted anything
10:31 homunq_ so, subzero, just do a quick writeup of where you are - 4-5 sentences is plenty - and put it somewhere. You should have one of those every week, even if it's 6 days old.
10:32 BryanWB homunq_: great idea
10:32 homunq_ subzero: you should post updates even if the content is "since I haven't finished,  I haven't posted anything"
10:32 well, not exactly, but you get the picture
10:32 OK. next
10:32 BryanWB homunq_: 1 sec
10:32 subzero homunq_: ok
10:32 homunq_ #topic versions silbe homunq_
10:32 BryanWB homunq_: subzero and I have our mentor/mentee meeteing on #sugar
10:33 homunq_: b/c we want others overhear our work.
10:33 homunq_ yes, that's good
10:33 sorry nix that topic, I am with you BryanWB
10:33 BryanWB homunq_: if #sugar is very busy should we move to another channel or just wait until someone complains?
10:34 homunq_ BryanWB: I think you can play that by ear
10:34 BryanWB ok
10:34 homunq_ if nobody's bothered by talking across another conversation, then no harm no foul.
10:35 tomeu I think #sugar is cool if we stay on topic
10:35 homunq_ BryanWB: that it?
10:35 hmm...
10:35 I'm moving on.
10:36 silbe, we're up.
10:36 One thing I should tell you silbe is that I spoke briefly at the start of meeting about the importance of the meeting. I've been bad about it too but we should try to be punctual.
10:37 so, over to you, what's your status, and do you have a link for it?
10:37 silbe homunq_: understood. should be better next time.
10:38 i've had looks at the current data store and the old effort at adding version support that tomeu showed me on SugarCamp
10:38 (in the process of adding wiki entries for my progress, links will be in there)
10:39 homunq_ Next week, please have that done before the meeting.
10:39 silbe the minimal API change done last time looks exactly like what I had in mind
10:39 homunq_ cool
10:39 was there any UI work done on top of that API?
10:40 silbe so i'm slowly, but steadily getting into the topic
10:40 homunq_: not that i know of
10:40 homunq_ OK.
10:40 silbe but i think the mockups i've done should be the way to go for now
10:40 homunq_ tomeu: can you talk about the context when that API was made for a sec?
10:42 silbe i'll need to enhance find() in order to retrieve all versions / versions on the same branch of a given entry, but that's the plan anyway
10:42 tomeu reads
10:43 ok, so we didn't needed many changes to add version support to the journal (UI)
10:43 just query as always and display all the results, as before
10:44 we added a version list to the detail view, was just a simple query with a special parameter that meant that we want to get all the versions for that object_id
10:44 homunq_ OK, so there was a simple UI.
10:44 tomeu so most of the changes happened in the implementation of the same old API
10:44 yeah, and that's the UI we currently want, AFAIK
10:44 silbe tomeu: oh, so you had UI too? is that code still around?
10:45 tomeu silbe: I think it may be around somewhere, but as I said, it was really minimal
10:45 silbe tomeu: might still be useful
10:45 homunq_ this conversation is vital, but we have to move on. silbe and tomeu, can you continue on #sugar at the next topic?
10:45 tomeu silbe: basically, when I do a normal query such like the one used to populate the list view, I only get the tips of the branches
10:45 ok
10:45 silbe ok
10:47 homunq_ silbe: I'd like to see more from you than "I've been looking at stuff". Try to find some simple and noncontroversial aspect where you can spend a few hours every week actually coding, even if your main focus that week is exploring.
10:48 That could be something like some really naive time trials for backends or whatever, it doesn't have to be code you expect to actually have in the final version.
10:48 OK?
10:48 silbe ok, will try to
10:49 homunq_ cool
10:49 #topic webified lucian1900 walterbender
10:49 student first: link then update
10:50 lucian1900?
10:51 iwikiwi_ heavy winds outside,  power might go on and off any time
10:53 homunq_ hmmm... walterbender?
10:54 hmm
10:54 iwikiwi_ did i miss anything directed at me?
10:55 mchua iwikiwi_: no, you're good
10:55 iwikiwi_ ah okay, mchua
10:55 homunq_ OK. nope
10:55 but somehow lucian1900 and walterbender are not responding where I can see it
10:55 iwikiwi_: so you're on.
10:56 Link, then update. Too bad aa's not here.
10:57 iwikiwi_ homunq_: no blogged stuff this week, but theres a summary of what i intended to do a  week back,  which I had implemented this week,. Mostly this week was a waste of code.
10:57 http://materiliazingsweetness.wordpress.com/
10:58 err
10:58 https://materializingsweetness.wordpress.com/
11:00 homunq_: I finished with the fork of read reading every sugar supported mime, and then aa had said we need to wait till we talk to the design team about the ui
11:00 so decided to step into moodle, and had mailed on the mls about a possible approach
11:00 walterbender homunq_: sorry. I have been forced to be multitasking throughout the meeting... :(
11:00 iwikiwi_ and mailed Martin L personally, he hadnt responded in a long while
11:01 so I had started working on an assignment plugin which considered only pdfs and showed them as thumbnails
11:01 but martin said thats a bad approach later on
11:01 homunq_ notes that our time is soon up.
11:01 iwikiwi_ today aa and I got to fixing a few bugs in the print(the fork of read, lets call it that) activity
11:02 code is on git
11:02 homunq_ OK. sounds as if things are coming along.
11:02 Dead ends are unavoidable, of course.
11:02 SeanDaly Hi GSoC people, do you think you will be done soon?
11:02 iwikiwi_ homunq_: : actually, im kinda getting lost with the design issue
11:03 homunq_ SeanDaly: yeah, soon.
11:03 OK, I'll talk to you in a minute in #sugar
11:03 GSoC'ers, any final announcements?
11:04 iwikiwi_ homunq_: okay, thanks
11:04 homunq_ #topic last words, meeting ends in a minute
11:05 OK.
11:05 #endmeeting

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