| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 10:01 | walterbender | This is the first of what might be a new series of mini developer tutorials |
| 10:01 | The idea emerged in discussion in IRC last week. | |
| 10:02 | tomeu | hi! |
| 10:02 | walterbender | We all have pockets of knowledge about how to do things... this is a forum to share them. |
| 10:03 | I thought I would kick it off the series, but hopefully others will jump in. | |
| 10:03 | #topic keyboard shortcuts | |
| 10:03 | tomeu | we could take at the end about topics for further sessions |
| 10:03 | walterbender | #TOPIC keyboard shortcuts |
| 10:03 | tomeu | the bot may be a bit slow? |
| 10:04 | walterbender | OK. Let's cover todays topic and then discuss the meta issues. |
| 10:04 | Before I begin, let me remind everyone that we have an almanac for developers in the wiki. | |
| 10:04 | http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/D[…]ment_Team/Almanac | |
| 10:05 | One of the sections is on tool buttons. | |
| 10:05 | http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/D[…]aphics.toolbutton | |
| 10:05 | I managed to follow these instructions in order to create the toolbars for Turtle Art | |
| 10:06 | http://git.sugarlabs.org/proje[…]line/trees/master | |
| 10:06 | http://git.sugarlabs.org/proje[…]tleArtActivity.py | |
| 10:07 | The relevant code is line 35, lines 74,75, and 81-88 | |
| 10:08 | There are classes for each toolbar and then callbacks for each button | |
| 10:08 | when you define a button, beginning on line 699... | |
| 10:09 | garycmartin | was in wrong room |
| 10:09 | walterbender | you define things such as tooltip and the callback itself |
| 10:09 | For a keyboard shortcut, simply add a call to props.accelerator as in the examples | |
| 10:10 | e.g., self.palette.props.accelerator = '<Alt>p' | |
| 10:10 | And it magically works. | |
| 10:10 | I added a new section in the almanac to document this tip | |
| 10:10 | http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/D[…]to_my_tool_button.3F | |
| 10:10 | Any quesitons? | |
| 10:11 | lucian1900 | walterbender: how do users set up keyboard shortcuts? |
| 10:11 | tomeu | modifying python files :p |
| 10:11 | walterbender | lucian1900: you mean to override the Sugar defaults? |
| 10:11 | lucian1900 | tomeu: besides that? |
| 10:11 | walterbender: yes, like for different langauges | |
| 10:11 | walterbender | lucian1900: I don't think we have a way of doing that |
| 10:12 | lucian1900 | walterbender: alright |
| 10:12 | tomeu | lucian1900: translators can override the accelerators when they translate |
| 10:12 | walterbender | lucian1900: if you want to add keyboard shortcuts for your javascript activities... |
| 10:12 | tomeu | though for that, the string needs to be _('<Alt>p') |
| 10:12 | walterbender | we need to investigate |
| 10:12 | lucian1900 | tomeu: it requires the translators to know python |
| 10:12 | tomeu: or at least have an idea about it. right? | |
| 10:12 | walterbender | tomeu: good point. I'll update the documentation (and TA) |
| 10:12 | tomeu | lucian1900: no, they just translate it as with any other string, in pootle |
| 10:13 | lucian1900: but they do need to know what an accelerator is, and need to create some guidelines for that language | |
| 10:13 | lucian1900 | tomeu: right |
| 10:13 | tomeu | some translation teams choose to leave the same as in english, other translate them |
| 10:13 | garycmartin | tomeu: FWIW I retested using non numeric or alpha as a shortcut and it's still failing here (wanted to use + and = for zoom in and out) |
| 10:14 | tomeu | hmm |
| 10:15 | garycmartin: how does it fail? | |
| 10:16 | garycmartin | tomeu: /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/sugar/graphics/toolbutton.py:47: GtkWarning: gtk_accel_group_connect: assertion `accel_key > 0' failed (I think is the error |
| 10:16 | tomeu | cool, let me see |
| 10:18 | walterbender | While tomeu is debugging, I'd like to switch to the meta topic. OK? |
| 10:18 | tomeu | sure |
| 10:19 | walterbender | #topic mini tutorials |
| 10:19 | a bunch of questions: | |
| 10:19 | 1. was it useful? | |
| 10:19 | 2. should we do it again? | |
| 10:19 | 3. if so, how do we organize it? | |
| 10:20 | 4. should we archive the minutes outside of the almanac and the general meeting archive? | |
| 10:20 | re 1. I learned two things today, so for me it was useful | |
| 10:21 | I learned that there was a hole in the almanac's documentation | |
| 10:21 | and I learned that you could use gettext for tooltips... | |
| 10:22 | I think I filled in the hole... | |
| 10:22 | lucian1900 | 1. i learned how shortcuts work and how to define toolbars |
| 10:22 | walterbender | I also learned that there is more to the topic than I had been considering... |
| 10:22 | so I think we should do more of these... | |
| 10:23 | lucian1900 | 2. sure, it's at least a reason read and write a bit of sugar code |
| 10:23 | 3. irc seems fine, at least for me | |
| 10:24 | 4. i have no idea | |
| 10:24 | walterbender | lucian1900: I don't know if this format was useful to newbies... |
| 10:24 | lucian1900: I don't know if irc is useful to newbies | |
| 10:24 | tomeu | garycmartin: here is the code that parses the string: http://git.gnome.org/cgit/gtk+[…]ccelgroup.c#n1110 |
| 10:25 | walterbender | lucian1900: and I certainly didn't do a very good job of advertizing |
| 10:25 | lucian1900 | walterbender: yes, advertising was poor :P |
| 10:26 | walterbender: grated irc is not that common with us younger folk, but it does the job | |
| 10:26 | walterbender: and it's established enough that anyone the least bit technial can figure it out | |
| 10:26 | tomeu | about the developer meetings, now is a good moment to work in projects that are upstream to us, as we give them time to get stuff released in time for the next distro releases |
| 10:26 | that's why sugar devs might not be direclty hacking on sugar right now | |
| 10:27 | walterbender | lucian1900: maybe we could try using jabber for a meeting? |
| 10:27 | tomeu | once we get back to the regular dev meetings, may be easier to coordinate this other meet-ups |
| 10:27 | wonder what alternatives to irc exist | |
| 10:27 | lucian1900 | walterbender: besides gtalk, jabber isn't very popular |
| 10:28 | tomeu | lucian1900: is there any technology being used in place of irc? |
| 10:28 | lucian1900 | lucian1900: mainly IM and stuff like facebook afaik |
| 10:29 | s/lucian1900/tomeu | |
| 10:29 | walterbender | lucian1900: maybe we should use facebook for the next one |
| 10:29 | lucian1900 | walterbender: heh |
| 10:29 | walterbender | lucian1900: seriously. |
| 10:29 | lucian1900 | walterbender: i don't think it has good group chat facilities |
| 10:29 | for group chats, irc and IMs are still the best | |
| 10:30 | walterbender | what about an IM instead of IRC? |
| 10:30 | tomeu | do you know any open source project using any IM technology instead of irc? |
| 10:30 | walterbender | tomeu: no. But I have evidence that we are losing people. Maybe an IM meeting on how to use IRC??? |
| 10:31 | lucian1900 | walterbender: heh |
| 10:31 | tomeu | walterbender: don't know myself, we should pick the brains of someone not in irc yet |
| 10:31 | lucian1900 | walterbender: we should find some really good irc clients to recommend for each platform |
| 10:32 | walterbender: for me, proxy support for example is a problem | |
| 10:32 | walterbender | tomeu: I agree. |
| 10:32 | lucian1900: I use chatzilla these days... easy since it is a firefox addon | |
| 10:32 | garycmartin-5069 | sorry my VM locked up, back on an XO now... |
| 10:32 | tomeu | garycmartin-5069: what do you think about irc being too alien to newcomers? what could be done about it? switch to something else? make it easier to use irc? |
| 10:33 | the problem I see is that lots of sugar coding is done in cooperation with other FOSS projects | |
| 10:33 | and the people working on those projects are on IRC | |
| 10:34 | walterbender | tomeu: I think that the non-technical issues may be better handled in less austere environments... |
| 10:34 | tomeu | I'm in irc.gimpnet for gtk/gnome and abiword, irc.freenode for sugar, fedora and gnash, irc.mozilla for asloa nd xulrunner, ... |
| 10:34 | walterbender: oh, totally | |
| 10:34 | garycmartin-5069 | tomeu: sorry missed the last ~5min. Is Chat considered stable enough now? I must say I used IRC a 10+ years ago but never since until Sugar/OLPC |
| 10:35 | tomeu | garycmartin: well, I would ask if it's appropriate, rather than stable, to host dozens of people at the same time |
| 10:35 | but maybe could be with little work | |
| 10:35 | walterbender | I'd really like to try using Chat for a meeting of some sort, if only to understand the limitations |
| 10:37 | garycmartin-5069 | tomeu: I think the main downside still is that you can't copy paste from the main screen, but we would need a reliable jabber server. The sooner we start dog-fooding the sooner we'll see and fix the issues. |
| 10:37 | tomeu | yeah, we need to improve the jabber side of things |
| 10:37 | garycmartin-5069: about accelerators, you need to pass '<Alt>plus' | |
| 10:38 | garycmartin-5069: the names are taken from /usr/include/X11/keysymdef.h | |
| 10:38 | walterbender | tomeu: I'll make note of it in the almanac!! |
| 10:38 | tomeu | #define XK_plus 0x002b /* U+002B PLUS SIGN */ |
| 10:38 | without XK_ | |
| 10:38 | walterbender: don't know why the gtk docs don't say where the names come from | |
| 10:39 | had to look into the source code of gtk, gdk and X11 to get to it | |
| 10:39 | garycmartin-5069 | tomeu: Ahh intersting, I was googling for ages trying to find where they came from :-) thanks! |
| 10:39 | tomeu | unfortunately, it's handy to have the sources at hand |
| 10:41 | hi FGrose | |
| 10:42 | walterbender | tomeu: well, now it is documented in the Almanac :) |
| 10:42 | FGrose | tomeu: Hi |
| 10:42 | walterbender | so, to wrap up: |
| 10:42 | tomeu | thanks! |
| 10:43 | walterbender | #TODO hold a mini tutorial in Chat on how to use IRC |
| 10:43 | #TODO do a better job of advertizing | |
| 10:43 | #TODO define some mechanism for scheduling | |
| 10:45 | anything else to add to this five minute meeting (that has lasted 45 minutes :) ) | |
| 10:46 | FGrose | walterbender: Do you have a wiki home page? |
| 10:46 | walterbender | FGrose: User:Walter |
| 10:47 | FGrose | walterbender: For the tutorial series? |
| 10:47 | walterbender | FGrose: no. Not yet. |
| 10:47 | garycmartin-5069 | walterbender: thanks for running it! (though I'll need to read the back logs and see what was covered) |
| 10:47 | lucian1900 | walterbender: yep, thanks for the session :) |
| 10:47 | walterbender | FGrose: I'll set something up in the wiki and solicit contributors in my blog |
| 10:48 | FGrose: and I'll finally figure out how to use the calendaring system you set up!! | |
| 10:48 | garycmartin-5069 | walterbender: Were there any specific activties you see as missing accelerator support? |
| 10:49 | walterbender | garycmartin-5069: nothing in particular, just in general, it was not well documented |
| 10:49 | tomeu | would be nice to have tickets in trac about adding missing accelerators |
| 10:49 | in activities and in the shell | |
| 10:49 | walterbender | garycmartin-5069: and I think that especially in light of non-XO keyboards, we'll want to use more rather than less |
| 10:49 | tomeu | that way, people will be able to to give their opinions about using one accelerator or another |
| 10:51 | garycmartin-5069 | walterbender: Write seems to accept things like <ctrl>b for bold, but it's not using acceleratorsin the toolbar, might be a little more to unpick there. |
| 10:53 | walterbender | garycmartin-5069: I don't think Write is doing that using PyGTK. I think it is buried somewhere in the abiword library |
| 10:54 | garycmartin-5069: for most activity developers, the props.accelerator mechanism should be sufficient | |
| 10:55 | garycmartin-5069 | walterbender: yea, but having them in the toolbar (even if we let the events 'fall thru' to the actual code) would be useful documentation. |
| 10:55 | homunq_ | hi |
| 10:55 | missed the 5 minutes | |
| 10:55 | but I like the backlog | |
| 10:55 | I do think we should start to have stricter standards for accelerators, though. | |
| 10:56 | walterbender | garycmartin-5069: you are correct in regards to that specific case. I suppose that it should be easy enough to add to the Python wrapper... |
| 10:56 | homunq_ | I'd advocate alt reserved for activities, and ctrl reserved for sugar. |
| 10:56 | walterbender | homunq_: I mention this in the Almanac entry I made. |
| 10:56 | tomeu | walterbender, garycmartin: Write uses an abiword plugin to set the accelerators in a xml file, we should unset there the ones we set in gtk |
| 10:57 | see keybindings.xml in the Write dir | |
| 10:57 | walterbender | homunq_: on a meta topic, this mini tutorial caused a lot of additional issues to be raised... not a bad thing |
| 10:57 | garycmartin-5069: do you want to file a ticket for Write? | |
| 10:58 | garycmartin-5069: and include Tomeu's comment re xml? | |
| 10:58 | garycmartin-5069 | walterbender: sure, was just wondering if I should try to poke it myself (as I raised it) but a ticket is a good start :-) |
| 10:58 | tomeu | yeah, tickets are good discussion outcomes |
| 10:59 | walterbender | garycmartin-5069: go for it... |
| 11:00 | well, given that it is now UTC 15:00, I'll end the meeting | |
| 11:00 | 3 | |
| 11:00 | 2 | |
| 11:00 | 1 | |
| 11:00 | #end-meeting | |
| 11:01 | FGrose | walterbender: #endmeeting |
| 11:01 | walterbender | #endmeeting |