Time |
Nick |
Message |
11:12 |
marcopg |
_bernie: collaboras are debian guys :) |
11:12 |
_bernie |
maybe we should run the meetbot on our new server when we get it. |
11:12 |
cassidy |
indeed :) |
11:12 |
Robot101 |
you rang? :) |
11:12 |
_bernie |
marcopg: if I could learn some debian they can certainly learn some fedora ;-) |
11:13 |
|
or we could install gentoo to displease everybody |
11:13 |
marcopg |
I'd just not waste their time to learn things |
11:13 |
_bernie |
Robot101: ciao |
11:13 |
cassidy |
Robot101: _bernie suggested to use xs.sugarlabs.org as ejabberd box |
11:14 |
_bernie |
marcopg: then should I manage the xs following their instructions? |
11:14 |
marcopg |
_bernie: I tried and I could not get it to work :( |
11:14 |
Robot101 |
what/where is that box? |
11:14 |
_bernie |
Robot101: it's a schoolserver 0.5, but we can update whatever we want |
11:14 |
marcopg |
_bernie: there is also the problem that the xs is this custom thing... |
11:14 |
_bernie |
Robot101: it's at Solutiongroove |
11:14 |
marcopg |
_bernie: don't even know if you can yum update it |
11:15 |
Robot101 |
we need to make new ejabberd instructions for installing sugar-friendly ejabberd+gadget on any system, ideally |
11:15 |
_bernie |
marcopg: yes you can, it's not as broken as OLPC-3 |
11:15 |
marcopg |
_bernie: ah that's good to know |
11:15 |
_bernie |
[not nearly as] |
11:15 |
Robot101 |
the host box will run xen 3.2.1 on i386 |
11:16 |
|
I have tools to make Debian VMs very easily |
11:16 |
|
for anything else I need a kernel, initrd and tarball of the / filesystem |
11:16 |
_bernie |
marcopg: it's just a plan F9, plus F9 updates, plus a custom repository with *few* new packages |
11:16 |
cassidy |
would prefer a Debian actually |
11:16 |
|
as it has the right ejabberd packaged |
11:16 |
|
(2.0.2) |
11:17 |
Robot101 |
we should provide instructions for doing it on debian and on fedora systems, so having both to test makes sense anyway |
11:17 |
marcopg |
I don't have any strong feeling, as long as we get a working ejabberd soon I'm happy :) |
11:17 |
Robot101 |
we should have it working by monday |
11:17 |
marcopg |
we could use xs.sg to test the schoolserver |
11:17 |
|
(on Fedora) |
11:17 |
_bernie |
caroline_: ping |
11:18 |
marcopg |
and the collabora VM for just jabber |
11:18 |
|
having two would be cool anyway |
11:18 |
|
one defaulted in sugar |
11:18 |
|
with a bunch of people on it |
11:18 |
|
and one with no people for more controlled testing |
11:19 |
_bernie |
Robot101: do you think there would be confusion if we make ejabberd in one place and the rest of the XS services in another? |
11:19 |
|
are the accounts shared or something? |
11:19 |
Robot101 |
_bernie: not currently, but I don't know what other parts of sugar rely on an XS |
11:19 |
_bernie |
backups... |
11:19 |
|
updates... |
11:20 |
|
things that the sugar developers did not use to test in the past |
11:20 |
marcopg |
updates are not really relevant for non-olpc though |
11:20 |
_bernie |
now we're on our own or we'd better declare the xs unsopported. |
11:20 |
|
yes |
11:20 |
marcopg |
I wouldn't make things more complicated than they need to be anyway |
11:20 |
|
we have enough problems to solve :) |
11:20 |
Robot101 |
and do you really want to provide backup services for every sugar user ever? |
11:20 |
_bernie |
Robot101: it's for developers |
11:21 |
|
Robot101: for now :-) |
11:21 |
Robot101 |
at the moment the presence service just makes up a random JID and uses that, so its just the one hostname that configures where we connect to |
11:21 |
_bernie |
caroline thinks that without some xs integration we lack credibility in any school |
11:21 |
marcopg |
I think sugar is supposed to to get that hostname from the xs |
11:22 |
_bernie |
she volunteered to help us with it |
11:22 |
marcopg |
right and xs.sg is where we should develop that integration |
11:22 |
_bernie |
and she says solutiongroove will develop their servies on top of the existing xs |
11:22 |
marcopg |
while the collabora server would be focused on collab (jabber) |
11:23 |
_bernie |
btw, this does not imply the xs needs to be F9. we could port those packages to debian, for example. |
11:23 |
|
but it's more work |
11:23 |
|
and unless someone volunteers to do it, it's not gonna happen |
11:23 |
marcopg |
calls for actions! |
11:24 |
_bernie |
marcopg: if you think 2 separate servers could work, that's ok |
11:24 |
marcopg |
I think they would be useful |
11:24 |
_bernie |
Robot101: how does the xo discover the jabber server? does it look for the SRV records in the domain above the schoolserver hostname configured in the control panel? |
11:25 |
marcopg |
so the actions are something like this? |
11:25 |
_bernie |
cassidy: or maybe you know |
11:25 |
marcopg |
1 Robot101 + cassidy to setup collabora VM, marco to make it default when it's up |
11:25 |
|
2 _bernie to give root access to cassidy, and we can look together into making jabber work on it |
11:25 |
|
? |
11:26 |
Robot101 |
_bernie: the versions shipped in XOs thus far don't do any SRV stuff because the loudmouth is too old |
11:26 |
_bernie |
cassidy: please point me at your ssh key(s) |
11:26 |
Robot101 |
_bernie: so we just override it with the hostname / port directly |
11:26 |
cassidy |
_bernie: yeah, we just use the server configured using sugar-control-panel |
11:26 |
marcopg |
_bernie: no it gets it by xmlrpc from the xs |
11:26 |
cassidy |
_bernie: for a root access ? |
11:26 |
marcopg |
at registration |
11:27 |
_bernie |
so we need to choose one xs to use for everything? |
11:27 |
marcopg |
huh? |
11:27 |
_bernie |
I mean, we can't use jabber here, the rest there? |
11:28 |
marcopg |
no idea why we should do that :) |
11:28 |
|
let's keep things simple :) |
11:29 |
_bernie |
marcopg: perhaps I misunderstood your action items... do we point sugar at solutiongroove's or collabora's xs? |
11:29 |
marcopg |
collabora has no xs |
11:29 |
|
it has a jabber server |
11:29 |
cassidy |
tbh, I'd prefer to not have to maintain 2 jabber servers |
11:29 |
marcopg |
and we point sugar to collabora jabber by default |
11:29 |
cassidy |
I prefer to code than configure jabber server :) |
11:30 |
marcopg |
cassidy: sure, it make sense |
11:30 |
_bernie |
so do we use only solutiongroove's? |
11:30 |
marcopg |
and we use sg xs to test integration with the schoolserver |
11:30 |
_bernie |
ah I get it |
11:31 |
cassidy |
and to be *really* honest, I don't care about XS that much :p |
11:31 |
_bernie |
so we won't have a configuration that makes everything work out of the box? |
11:31 |
marcopg |
yeah mainly I'd prefer to not have cassidy deal with the xs |
11:31 |
|
I just want a rocking jabber server from him |
11:31 |
|
whatever os it's hosted on |
11:32 |
cassidy |
hey, last time I tried their LIVE cd, it almost erase one of my HD :p |
11:32 |
_bernie |
oh yeah that's fantastic |
11:32 |
marcopg |
_bernie: I think it's too early for that, especially if we don't get someone interested in XS work |
11:32 |
_bernie |
also asterisk (centos based) would do that |
11:32 |
|
asterisk home |
11:32 |
marcopg |
_bernie: whoever gets interested on xs integration should be testing it with xs.sg |
11:33 |
_bernie |
marcopg: I told you, caroline _is_ interested and has people working on it |
11:33 |
marcopg |
_bernie: right, than we should help them to setup xs.sg... |
11:33 |
|
I don't see a lot of sense in asking cassidy to do that though |
11:33 |
_bernie |
it's already up and running |
11:33 |
marcopg |
_bernie: yeah but jabber is broken |
11:34 |
|
and I wasted a few hours trying to make it work :/ |
11:34 |
_bernie |
I see it running... what should it do? |
11:34 |
marcopg |
_bernie: gadget behaves weirdly on it, not sure why |
11:34 |
|
works fine in sugarlabs2 |
11:34 |
_bernie |
look, yum says there's an updated version: |
11:34 |
|
<marcopg> _bernie: right, than we should help them to setup xs.sg... |
11:34 |
|
<marcopg> I don't see a lot of sense in asking cassidy to do that though |
11:34 |
marcopg |
note that XS 0.5 doesn't have gadget |
11:35 |
|
I had to "hack" it in |
11:35 |
_bernie |
oops |
11:35 |
|
ejabberd-xs i386 2.0.1-11.fc9.olpc olpcxs 719 k |
11:35 |
|
replacing ejabberd.i386 2.0.2-3.fc9 |
11:35 |
|
maybe this fixes things? |
11:35 |
marcopg |
not really |
11:35 |
|
XS does not support gadget |
11:35 |
|
and we need it |
11:35 |
_bernie |
ah ok I see |
11:35 |
marcopg |
Martin or someone will have to look into that at some point |
11:36 |
|
but first we should show that gadget really help things I guess |
11:36 |
_bernie |
sorry, I wasn't paying much attention, but I vaguely remember now. |
11:36 |
marcopg |
and that's what the collabora server will help us achieve |
11:36 |
|
once jabber works |
11:36 |
|
we can think more about xs :) |
11:36 |
_bernie |
ok agreed |
11:37 |
|
marcopg: I'm adding a CNAME for collabora's jabber server |
11:38 |
|
jabber IN CNAME bhaji.collabora.co.uk. ; Cassidy |
11:38 |
marcopg |
Robot101: cassidy is that right ^ ? |
11:38 |
_bernie |
marcopg: we can make sugar point at jabber.sugarlabs.org out of the box, and we can quickly retarget it as we go |
11:38 |
cassidy |
I think it will change once we have the new VM |
11:39 |
_bernie |
cassidy: let me know and I'll update the dns accordingly |
11:39 |
cassidy |
_bernie: sure |
11:39 |
|
according to Robot101 the VM should be, hopefully, running Monday |
11:40 |
_bernie |
cassidy: also, it would be nice if you could add admin contacts here: |
11:40 |
|
http://sugarlabs.org/go/Infras[…]tureTeam/Contacts |
11:40 |
|
and here: http://sugarlabs.org/go/Infras[…]ureTeam/Resources |
11:40 |
cassidy |
_bernie: ok, I'll do |
11:41 |
|
sorry, have to leave. We have a spec meeting |
11:41 |
marcopg |
cassidy: later, thanks! |
11:41 |
cassidy |
see you guys |
11:41 |
_bernie |
(also note the nice pictures that decorate the infrastructure pages) |
11:41 |
|
cassidy: thanks for everything |
11:42 |
cassidy |
np :) |
11:42 |
_bernie |
cassidy: oh gimme your ssh keys if you (still) want access to the xs (but I don't think so :-) |
11:44 |
|
marcopg: oh, regarding dns, shall I make buildbot point at sugarlabs2.xen.prgmr.com? |
11:51 |
marcopg |
_bernie: it does already I think |
11:52 |
|
_bernie: http has another problem |
11:52 |
|
_bernie: the UI shows both git and http |
11:52 |
|
_bernie: so I guess we should make both work |
11:53 |
_bernie |
marcopg: oh yes it's already done |
11:53 |
|
marcopg: I just replied to lance |
11:53 |
|
it's easier than I thought |
11:54 |
|
we just need Alias /git/ /var/lib/git/ |
11:55 |
marcopg |
and that makes both http and git to work? |
11:55 |
|
(see my last mail) |
11:55 |
_bernie |
but I can't do that myself |
11:55 |
|
hmpf |
11:56 |
|
I can't edit files in /etc/apache/... |
11:56 |
|
this process of granting admin privileges selectively is really bothersome |
12:32 |
Robot101 |
_bernie: no it won't be bhaji |
12:32 |
|
_bernie: that's our router in the office |
12:37 |
_bernie |
Robot101: ok |
12:37 |
|
let me know when I should update the cname |
12:37 |
Robot101 |
it'll be korma.collabora.co.uk |
09:52 |
gregdek |
mchua_: Hosed? |
09:52 |
mchua_ |
is still hosed, but here for the purposes of meetingness. |
09:52 |
erikos |
which is meeting is now? |
09:53 |
mchua_ |
Mm, just a little. Though I was flat out for 12 hours last night and feel much better now. (I pretty much shut down and went "zomg must have the resting.") |
09:53 |
|
erikos: marketing! |
09:54 |
erikos |
oh marketing |
09:56 |
|
looks like we should change the title here by now |
09:56 |
mchua_ |
erikos: you're supposed to say it with exclamation points. "oh!! marketing!!!" ;) |
09:56 |
erikos |
mchua_: damn - i never get it right ;p |
09:57 |
mchua_ |
erikos: bugsquad, of course, is in all caps with underscores and even more exclamation points. ;) <---is biased |
09:58 |
|
contemplates making an aalib animation of glittering, flashing, marquee "YAY TESTING" text marching across the screen, but thinks better of it |
09:58 |
erikos |
bugsquad, my pet subject |
09:59 |
mchua_ |
that's __//**BUGSQUAD!!!111**//__ (...okay, maybe "simplify and amplify" only goes so far, and there's something to be said for nuanced understanding) |
10:00 |
|
howdy caroline! |
10:00 |
erikos |
mchua_: maybe you slept too long? |
10:00 |
caroline |
good morning :) |
10:00 |
erikos |
hello caroline |
10:00 |
jt4sugar |
Hello |
10:00 |
erikos |
hello jt4sugar |
10:01 |
jt4sugar |
Hi |
10:01 |
mchua_ |
erikos: I'm pretty sure I did... |
10:01 |
erikos |
mchua_: :) |
10:01 |
walter |
greg: shall we get started? |
10:01 |
mchua_ |
jt4sugar: oh hey, john! evangeline got to connect with the learning team, btw, so good news |
10:01 |
jt4sugar |
Very good to hear |
10:01 |
mchua_ |
jt4sugar: (asking members of the learning team for their thesis == really easy way to make them happy and wanting to talk with you ;) |
10:02 |
jt4sugar |
OK |
10:02 |
mchua_ |
gregdek: ping, o fearless leader? |
10:02 |
walter |
mchua: just don't ask them to write |
10:02 |
gregdek |
Hello. |
10:02 |
|
looks for agenda. |
10:03 |
|
Forgive me if I'm a bit slow today -- feel like my head is swimming in molasses. |
10:03 |
|
One sec... |
10:03 |
mchua_ |
gregdek: http://sugarlabs.org/go/MarketingTeam/TODO ? |
10:03 |
gregdek |
http://sugarlabs.org/go/MarketingTeam/TODO |
10:03 |
|
Bah. :) |
10:03 |
|
NEW RULE: whomever posts the agenda first runs the meeting! |
10:04 |
|
(tee hee) |
10:04 |
|
All right. |
10:04 |
|
Let's get to it. |
10:04 |
|
ROLL CALL please. |
10:04 |
walter |
walter here |
10:04 |
caroline |
Caroline |
10:04 |
mchua_ |
Mel |
10:04 |
jt4sugar |
JT |
10:04 |
erikos |
listens |
10:05 |
gregdek |
Decent quorum. Thanks |
10:05 |
caroline |
JT can you expand out to somehting I can match with an email address to help me get a better feel for people. |
10:05 |
gregdek |
First of all... |
10:05 |
jt4sugar |
John Tierney |
10:05 |
caroline |
Hi John :) |
10:05 |
gregdek |
...sorry for sending a reminder saying that we were meeting at 10am, since this meeting is supposed to be at 11am. |
10:06 |
|
Apologies for any confusion, but since everyone showed up at 10, fine. I still think we should keep the 11am slot, so in subsequent weeks that's what we'll do. |
10:06 |
|
ITEM 1: Make the "Get Involved" page amazing. |
10:06 |
|
walter, how's christian doing on his static page layout? |
10:06 |
|
Since it seems to be consensus that ultimately this page will live there... |
10:06 |
walter |
coming along, but no quickly |
10:06 |
gregdek |
Anything that anyone can look at yet? |
10:06 |
walter |
I think people (including me) still owe him some copy |
10:06 |
|
Nothing to see yet. |
10:07 |
|
bit of a chicken and egg |
10:07 |
gregdek |
Is anyone keeping track of the copy he needs? |
10:07 |
caroline |
Greg, from the get involved page we need a link to the How to talk to us on IRC page. |
10:07 |
walter |
but he has been busy with lots of other little detaisl, like logos |
10:07 |
gregdek |
OK. |
10:07 |
walter |
and a better calendar |
10:07 |
gregdek |
We can keep this item simmering. |
10:07 |
|
Yeah, +1 to better calendar. |
10:08 |
|
And the irc question reminds me... do we have the irc client in-browser yet? |
10:08 |
walter |
not that I know of, but chatzilla is so easy... is it a priority? |
10:09 |
|
maybe just the link to the chatzilla install is enough? |
10:09 |
jt4sugar |
www.mibbit.com no downloads needed |
10:09 |
mchua_ |
calendar + irc sounds like an infrastructure thing to me - are they trac tickets yet? |
10:09 |
gregdek |
mchua_: I know we discussed mibbit with bernie. I don't know if it's a trac ticket, though. |
10:10 |
walter |
I'll be back via mibbit in a second |
10:10 |
|
trying a new chat interface... |
10:10 |
jt4sugar |
Pretty easy HUH? |
10:11 |
walter |
actually, I think people will be confused the first time. |
10:11 |
|
we should add some screen dumps |
10:11 |
|
but then it should be easy |
10:12 |
gregdek |
OK. |
10:12 |
walter |
they need to remember to do three different things to start, including finding freenode in a *long* pulldown menu |
10:12 |
gregdek |
So we need an IRC page that talks about: |
10:12 |
walter |
anyway, let's add mibbit as an option... |
10:12 |
gregdek |
* How to install your favorite client, OR how to use mibbit. |
10:12 |
|
Who wants to take that on? |
10:14 |
mchua_ |
can't take new action items this meeting, for the record. veryveryhosed. |
10:14 |
walter |
walter steps back |
10:14 |
|
that leaves mchua, caroline, and JT in the front row |
10:14 |
caroline |
I nominate Bernie :) |
10:14 |
mchua_ |
gregdek, walter: i suspect this will be the case a lot this week and next - perhaps we can push non-taken task items to a "help wanted" section in walter's weekly digest? |
10:14 |
gregdek |
Yep. |
10:14 |
walter |
tI think it should not be a techie |
10:14 |
gregdek |
That's the point of this list. |
10:15 |
caroline |
+1 to a helpwanted section on the Sugar Digest |
10:15 |
walter |
mchua: +1 |
10:15 |
gregdek |
It's not just for everyone to claim something -- it's also to leaving things unclaimed to generate volunteer help. |
10:15 |
|
So that's what we'll do. |
10:15 |
|
adds to TODO with "nobody" as owner. |
10:15 |
walter |
quick aside: why don't we use Jabber for meetings (eating our own dogfood)? |
10:16 |
gregdek |
It's a fair question. |
10:16 |
erikos |
likes the help section idea - to generate and include volunteers |
10:16 |
caroline |
Walter, I just asked in #Sugar and we do not yet have an XS we believe works well. |
10:16 |
gregdek |
wonders if we can come up with a way to tag all unclaimed work items to put into an easy view on the wiki... |
10:16 |
mchua_ |
gregdek: untaken task-items should have an applause-watcher to watch the todo page and cheer for any volunteers who pick them up, though |
10:16 |
|
gregdek: semantic mediawiki. ;) |
10:17 |
walter |
we could have an include page and a template |
10:17 |
gregdek |
Yes. Are we running semantic mediawiki? :) |
10:17 |
mchua_ |
that works too. |
10:17 |
tomeu1 |
trac would work bad here? |
10:17 |
mchua_ |
gregdek: no, I just checked the list of installed plugins. |
10:17 |
|
(http://sugarlabs.org/go/Special:Version) |
10:17 |
walter |
it is interesting why we use trac for some things and not everything |
10:17 |
gregdek |
I've never a big fan of trac because the overhead of managing it is higher... but I could be wrong. |
10:18 |
|
Properly managed, trac could be great. |
10:18 |
|
I've always used wiki for non-tech stuff because it's so lightweight. |
10:18 |
mchua_ |
trac scales better than manually-edited wiki pages do. |
10:18 |
tomeu1 |
would be awesome if we could do trac queries from wiki pages |
10:18 |
walter |
maybe a link from the wiki to submitting a ticket? But we had an issue with SNR at OLPC |
10:19 |
|
We need, either way, volunteers to keep it all orderly |
10:19 |
gregdek |
Frankly, the mechanism matters not to me. |
10:19 |
|
The important thing is the weekly meeting where we go over the items. |
10:19 |
homunq |
OLE nepal prefers redmine to trac |
10:19 |
gregdek |
But happy to discuss at some other point. :) |
10:20 |
|
looks back at agenda. |
10:21 |
|
* Create a sponsorship program. |
10:21 |
|
walter, any update on this? |
10:21 |
walter |
no |
10:22 |
|
I've been hosed as well and been focued on the local lab topic... |
10:22 |
gregdek |
OK. |
10:22 |
walter |
next week? |
10:22 |
gregdek |
Yep. |
10:22 |
|
amends. |
10:22 |
|
Next: |
10:22 |
|
* Elevator pitch! |
10:22 |
|
I haven't talked to Dennis and Scott at all. |
10:23 |
walter |
I have been talking to Dennis... |
10:23 |
gregdek |
Anything about the elevator pitch, or in general? And will they be able to join us for any of these meetings? |
10:23 |
walter |
invite them and they will come |
10:24 |
|
Dennis comes up with nice ideas, but they seem to generic to me--they don't have a Sugar-specific bite. |
10:24 |
gregdek |
Hm, yeah. |
10:24 |
|
All right. |
10:24 |
jt4sugar |
Sugar is all of the above approach Top Ten List |
10:24 |
gregdek |
So walter, do you have Dennis and Scott's emails? Since I searched my mail for their addresses, and failed to find them. :) |
10:25 |
walter |
I'll resend them |
10:25 |
gregdek |
OK, thanks. Sorry for the hassle. |
10:25 |
mchua_ |
so, I noticed http://sugarlabs.org/go/Market[…]eam/ElevatorPitch has a lot of ideas, but no votes - people have only added their own new ideas |
10:26 |
gregdek |
So Dennis and Walter aside... how do we start bringing the pitch to closure this time 'round? |
10:26 |
|
Deniis and Scott aside, i mean. |
10:26 |
|
Do we want to call a big vote? |
10:26 |
|
Do we want to let it simmer some more? |
10:26 |
mchua_ |
do we have any criteria for what we're looking for? a deadline? a sense of how "permanent" this elevator pitch will be? |
10:26 |
gregdek |
Do we want to invite Dennis and Scott and receive their wisdom? |
10:26 |
walter |
I thought we were going to run the picthes past some folks? |
10:26 |
gregdek |
Yeah, but I don't guess we made the mechanism clear on how to do that. |
10:26 |
walter |
I asked Dennis already. Wanna ask Scott? |
10:27 |
gregdek |
walter: I will. |
10:27 |
|
Dennis had no particular opinion on any of our pitches, I presume? |
10:27 |
mchua_ |
gregdek: so, thought experiment: if, say, you exercised dictatorial powers and said "This Is Our Pitch," right now, would anything explode? |
10:27 |
gregdek |
Nope. I'm getting there, though. :) |
10:27 |
walter |
mchua: nothing would explode. let's choose one |
10:28 |
mchua_ |
or perhaps the somewhat more mild "this is our pitch; comments/etc welcome over the next 48 hours," same as what i did for the planet sugarlabs blurby thing. |
10:28 |
gregdek |
Yep. |
10:28 |
walter |
I like short and to the point |
10:28 |
gregdek |
I want to make sure the point is the right one. :) |
10:28 |
|
So. |
10:28 |
|
We can either: |
10:28 |
|
1. Allow me to choose as Leader Of The Marketing Gang. |
10:29 |
|
2. Have A Vote Among Marketing Folk. |
10:29 |
|
3. Have A Vote Among A Very Wide Array of People. |
10:29 |
|
Which increase in order of "time to get something". |
10:29 |
|
And mchua_, to your point, this is as permanent as we choose to make it. |
10:30 |
|
If it goes on printed collateral like business cards, it suddenly becomes quite permanent indeed. |
10:30 |
|
So. |
10:30 |
|
pauses to receive wisdom. |
10:30 |
jt4sugar |
Top ten things Sugar does-will allow conversation inroads with all types |
10:30 |
caroline |
I'd love to get feedback from people in our target audiances who are not yet involved with the project. |
10:30 |
mchua_ |
I would suggest (1), with a 24-48 hr comment period announced to iaep (to increase chances of buy-in), and gregdek just Making The Decision at the end of that time period |
10:30 |
gregdek |
So in three seconds, we got three opinions. :) |
10:30 |
|
That tells me we're not there yet. |
10:31 |
|
And honestly, I'm in no super hurry. |
10:31 |
caroline |
Maybe thsi is something marketers making a difference can help us with. |
10:31 |
gregdek |
So let me put it this way: |
10:31 |
|
caroline, if you want to get other people in the loop and get some feedback, do that. |
10:31 |
|
And you're in charge. :) |
10:32 |
caroline |
yeah, wish I had time to commit to that. |
10:32 |
walter |
I vote you chose and let people fix it: easier to be a critic than a creator |
10:32 |
gregdek |
caroline: Then I think you've answered the question. ;) |
10:32 |
|
So I'll pick one for now, shall I? |
10:32 |
caroline |
But I have a pilot to plan, and I try to help everything USB and I'm committed to the goal of teacher involvement so I need to focus my commitment. |
10:32 |
gregdek |
And when people say "THAT doesn't represent Sugar AT ALL!" then we can go back and fix. |
10:33 |
mchua_ |
gregdek: +1 |
10:33 |
gregdek |
caroline: understood. No criticism, just the fact of short resources. |
10:33 |
|
I would like more feedback myself. But I don't think anyone has time to go get it, and I think we're "close enough for now". |
10:33 |
erikos |
gregdek: sounds good to me - to choose one and see the feedback |
10:33 |
caroline |
yes, hopefully some of the work we have done will lead to mroe marketing resources in the Fall |
10:33 |
gregdek |
Yep. |
10:33 |
|
All right. |
10:34 |
|
I may ask people to vote to help me with my decision, but in any event, I own it and will have a deliverable by next meeting. |
10:34 |
|
Good? |
10:34 |
tomeu |
+1 |
10:34 |
mchua_ |
gregdek: quick addition for when you announce the pick: "This pitch isn't set in stone. If you'd like to lead an effort to create a better one, the marketing team would welcome your contributions. Come to the next meeting at blahblahblah..." |
10:34 |
walter |
+1 |
10:34 |
mchua_ |
and +1 |
10:34 |
erikos |
sounds god |
10:34 |
|
aehm good :) |
10:34 |
gregdek |
Freudian slip. ;) |
10:35 |
|
All right. |
10:35 |
|
Moving on. |
10:35 |
|
* Get everyone's blog aggregated at planet.sugarlabs.org |
10:35 |
|
Looks like we've up to... 26? |
10:35 |
|
goes to count. |
10:35 |
erikos |
put his blog up last week! |
10:36 |
gregdek |
Yay! |
10:36 |
|
Yep, 26. Although it looks like a couple of those links don't point to actual feeds, as indicated by the red dotted line. |
10:36 |
|
Someone should fix those at some point... |
10:36 |
erikos |
do people use categories, to avoid 'uninteresting information going in? |
10:36 |
gregdek |
...but I guess that's a trac ticket for bernie. |
10:37 |
|
erikos: It depends. |
10:37 |
_bernie |
gregdek: the planetmaster is ivan, but I can do it too |
10:37 |
gregdek |
I think that pl.sl.o is pulling all of my stuff, although Planet makes it easy to pull only certain tahs. |
10:37 |
|
_bernie: Maybe ping Ivan to figure out what's up with the busted feeds, like the Ceibal feed? |
10:38 |
erikos |
gregdek: yeah - asked ivan to only pull the category sugar from my blog |
10:38 |
_bernie |
gregdek: send the link to the correct category to us |
10:38 |
|
also send us your hackerotchi |
10:38 |
|
(the face) |
10:38 |
gregdek |
_bernie: Will do. |
10:39 |
_bernie |
I've been working a little on restyling our sites and make them consistent with each other |
10:39 |
erikos |
_bernie: hackerotchi it is called? |
10:39 |
gregdek |
Hackergotchi. |
10:39 |
|
OK, so work is ongoing here. |
10:39 |
erikos |
ok ;p |
10:39 |
walter |
we should put instructions to all of this somewhere... |
10:39 |
_bernie |
to knit them all together I've started adding nav bars |
10:39 |
erikos |
walter: yes! |
10:39 |
gregdek |
walter: "contact planetmaster" is already on the planet sidebar. |
10:39 |
walter |
I use categories in my blog, but I don't know how to tell the planet about them |
10:40 |
erikos |
gregdek: well but the category thing |
10:40 |
gregdek |
And "planetmaster" should respond with a standard request: "here's what I need." |
10:40 |
erikos |
gregdek: and the hackergotchi thingy |
10:40 |
_bernie |
walter: I guess the rss link may have something like ?category=sugar... |
10:41 |
gregdek |
_bernie: However you and Ivan want to manage this, it's up to you guys. At the very least, make sure that you're letting people know that you want to aggregate according to tag/category, which will differ from blog to blog. |
10:41 |
|
OK, any objection to moving on? |
10:41 |
jt4sugar |
Need a Newbie lesson for this |
10:42 |
gregdek |
I'm not sure I agree. |
10:42 |
|
People who blog already blog, and people who don't blog shouldn't be forced. |
10:43 |
jt4sugar |
What if I wanted to but didn't know how |
10:43 |
walter |
I agree with JT... it is only easy after you have done it once |
10:43 |
|
just like getting started in IRC |
10:44 |
jt4sugar |
On ramp to on ramp |
10:44 |
gregdek |
If someone wants me to add "a beginner's guide to blogging" to the TODO, I will certainly do that. |
10:44 |
jt4sugar |
It would be helper for older teachers |
10:45 |
mchua_ |
I nominate jt4sugar for point on that todo, since he has a vested interest in making it happen. ;) |
10:45 |
_bernie |
gregdek: yeah |
10:45 |
tomeu2 |
_bernie: couldn't find the other day a way to reach older entries in the planet |
10:45 |
erikos |
jt4sugar: maybe someone that blogs already - can do a blog on how to blog? |
10:45 |
|
a blog post on how to blog - i mean |
10:45 |
|
jt4sugar: if that is what people need to start - i am happy to do it - just let me know |
10:46 |
_bernie |
tomeu2: I think the link is missing in the template |
10:46 |
|
tomeu2: please file a bug for me, or keep reminding me until I fix it |
10:46 |
tomeu2 |
will file a bug |
10:46 |
gregdek |
adds a TODO: "beginner's guide to blogging for Sugar," owner jt4sugar. |
10:46 |
jt4sugar |
I dont know how so that would be great Thanks! |
10:46 |
|
I'll delegate when necessary |
10:48 |
|
I accept |
10:48 |
gregdek |
jt4sugar: Your learning process will be the perfect fodder for a beginner's guide! :) |
10:48 |
|
(Start at blogger or livejournal, I'd say.) |
10:48 |
|
Okey doke. |
10:48 |
|
Moving on: |
10:49 |
|
* Business card design. walter, anything new here? |
10:49 |
walter |
I posted moo stuff a while ago... Christian is working on a default |
10:50 |
gregdek |
OK. Will continue to check in on Christian's design. |
10:52 |
|
All right. |
10:52 |
|
Any other business? |
10:53 |
caroline |
I thought I added somethingto the agenda |
10:53 |
|
PD Intern, under Requested tasks |
10:54 |
gregdek |
Yes, going there. |
10:54 |
|
(Moment of wiki fail, please hold.) |
10:54 |
mchua_ |
puts on the muzak |
10:54 |
walter |
and I want to just mention the Marketer Making a Difference meeting in January |
10:54 |
mchua_ |
walter: ooh, where/what/when is that, url? |
10:54 |
|
that sounds rather fortuitous |
10:55 |
|
jt4sugar: also, if you'd like, right after this meeting I'll walk you through setting up a wordpress.com blog; it's fast, free and will only take a minute (and I find it to be the easiest to put categories into, for sorting into planet sugarlabs). |
10:55 |
walter |
Something Caroline brought to my attention. A local marketing group that gives pro bono advice to non-profits. |
10:55 |
mchua_ |
cheers for pro bono advice |
10:56 |
walter |
they agreed to meet with us in January (but would like just 2-3 Sugar Labs reps. to start) |
10:56 |
gregdek |
OK, sorry. |
10:56 |
walter |
OLPC has Larry Weber... |
10:56 |
|
whom NN asked not to work with us... |
10:56 |
gregdek |
...? |
10:56 |
|
Sigh. |
10:56 |
walter |
even though I am the one who brought him to OLPC :( |
10:57 |
gregdek |
All right. Caroline? |
10:58 |
|
caroline: tell us about your intern request. |
10:58 |
caroline |
I think we need to focus our marketing beyond geeks and espeically to teachers. |
10:58 |
|
Teachers are far more likely to respect training done by teachers then by geeks. |
10:58 |
|
Thus I'd like to bring in a teacher to both do training and help us create training materials that meet the expectations of teachers. |
10:59 |
|
thoughts? |
10:59 |
tomeu |
I love the idea and liked the proposal you sent earlier today |
10:59 |
jt4sugar |
Be great to have Intern to be liason to field groups |
10:59 |
caroline |
this involves some financial commitments and I'm not sure how these get approved. |
11:00 |
gregdek |
turns to walter. :) |
11:01 |
|
Well. |
11:01 |
caroline |
Also Professional Development is one of the engines that companies/local sugar labs can use to be sustainable. |
11:01 |
gregdek |
Sounds like a fantastic idea. The question is, what do we need to do to make it happen? |
11:01 |
walter |
we need to make it clear how teachers (and university types) can leverage Sugar Labs to raise money |
11:02 |
caroline |
walter, I don;t understand that statement |
11:02 |
walter |
but we cannot raise the money ourselves... at lease I would prefer not to... |
11:02 |
jt4sugar |
We need short-term funding to get to long-term goal |
11:02 |
walter |
Caroline: like the Gardner Grant. We do it jointly, but we aren't the money tree. |
11:03 |
caroline |
walter, did you get my email to SLOBS? |
11:03 |
walter |
I will continue to try to raise some short-term money |
11:03 |
|
but it ain't easy or fast in this economic climate |
11:03 |
caroline |
This does not require SL to raise money, but the money has to go through SL. |
11:03 |
walter |
caroline: which emall? |
11:03 |
caroline |
The financial side of hiring a work study intern |
11:04 |
walter |
we can have money "pass through" SL as long as it is aligned with our goals and principles. |
11:04 |
caroline |
I don;t want exact numbers on the public record yet as they may change so nayone who needs a copy let me know and I will email. |
11:04 |
walter |
caroline: if we can find the money... |
11:04 |
caroline |
So, I'm making this a no cost option for Sugar Labs but to make this work I need the following from Sugar Labs 1. Support doing the paperwork, she has to be paid through a 501C3 2. Help finding low or no costs spaces where Terri can do workshops for teachers and parents in Boston 3. Help finding USB donations so we can provide Sugar on a Stick without paying for USB sticks 4.... |
11:04 |
mchua_ |
walter: I think what caroline may be asking for is the procedure for having money 'pass through' SL - if someone has money and wants to put it through, what do they do? |
11:04 |
caroline |
...Agreement that its fine for Sugar Labs to run a workshop for teachers and charge for it. 5. Agreement in principal that if things go well, and the workshops make money Solution Grove will either be paid back or we'll work together to endow a fund that is dedicated to teacher and community engagement and creation of materials for workshops. 6. Agreement that all materials created... |
11:04 |
|
...will be available under an open license that allows remix and reuse in commercial applications by anyone. |
11:05 |
gregdek |
Yeah. |
11:05 |
caroline |
Walter, Solution Grove is fronting the money and I am suggesting charging for workshops to make it sustainable. |
11:05 |
walter |
Let's talk to the SFC about this |
11:05 |
gregdek |
thinks Walter missed the "no money" part. :) |
11:05 |
walter |
greg is right... |
11:05 |
|
Caroline: let's talk to Karen this week. |
11:06 |
gregdek |
OK. |
11:06 |
|
So I'll move this to the "accepted tasks" section. |
11:06 |
caroline |
My plan in entrepenueral, Solution Grove provides the upfront investment but my hope is she pays for herself. |
11:06 |
gregdek |
And mchua_, what about your slide deck request? |
11:06 |
caroline |
and thanks to the fact the US government pays 70% of her salery the model looks good to me. |
11:07 |
|
gregdek, I think Walter has the next action, talking to SFC about how ot make the financees work. |
11:07 |
mchua_ |
walter, caroline: please post the "how to pass funding through SL" thing somewhere public when it's up? I'd love to take a look at it and possibly pass some stuff through it too |
11:08 |
|
gregdek: i put it up on the todo, it looks like christian took it |
11:08 |
gregdek |
OK. |
11:08 |
dfarning |
mchua_, I also work on the pass through stuff |
11:08 |
gregdek |
So that's our agenda. |
11:08 |
|
(Hey dfarning!) |
11:09 |
mchua_ |
dfarning: hey! |
11:09 |
dirakx |
hey all i got i request we have to investigate forms in wich a local lab can alter Sugar Labs logo and what a local lab can't do with the logo.. |
11:09 |
|
sorry to interrupt. ;) |
11:09 |
mchua_ |
dfarning: yallrighty, then count yourself in that request as well :) |
11:09 |
walter |
Hey. I need to hop on my bike... back online in 2 hours. |
11:09 |
dfarning |
hey all just listening from the corner:) |
11:09 |
jt4sugar |
If you can make that a visual it would help |
11:10 |
dirakx |
i mean what is the grade of customization possible |
11:10 |
|
:) |
11:10 |
walter |
I think in the beginning at least, we need to be conservative about the logo... more alter |
11:10 |
|
ciao |
11:10 |
mchua_ |
dirakx, how urgent is this? (Is there a deadline that you need to know this by?) |
11:11 |
|
gregdek: since the meeting's running long, do you want to pop this to the end of today's agenda, defer to next week, handle it outside of meeting? (I'm guessing this might be dependent on dirakx's answer) |
11:11 |
dirakx |
mchua_: it's not urgent...but i think it is necessary to know this for other local labs.. |
11:11 |
gregdek |
Let's put it on our list as a priority two so we're tracking it, anyway. |
11:12 |
|
Since it's a textual logo, localizing the word mark is going to be an issue. |
11:12 |
dirakx |
.co local lab is using a logo reviewed by christian..but we have to make rules about how to use the logo. |
11:12 |
cjl |
Caroline Thought on soliciting USB sticks. many shops have "custom logo" printed USBs as leave behinds, suggesting handing out logos with corporate logo (maybe also with SugarLabs logo) bought in bulk may be good way to get price down. |
11:12 |
gregdek |
We need a legal team. :) |
11:13 |
dirakx |
i mean we would like to add the word colomnia to it with the same font for example.. |
11:13 |
|
gregdek: agree ;) |
11:13 |
gregdek |
OK, so this meeting is done. |
11:13 |
|
I'll edit the wiki and send out the transcript. |
11:13 |
|
And then I'm gonna go find some drugs. |
11:13 |
mchua_ |
gregdek: disagree. we need a legal /resource/ teams can go to. an individual or list of individuals would be fine; if the volume of work grows to the point where a team is needed, then sure. |
11:14 |
|
aw. gregdek, feel better soon... |
11:14 |
gregdek |
mchua_: Same diff to me. ;) |
11:14 |
dfarning |
gregdek, I'll also pick up unscrew up the calendar as a task |
11:14 |
dirakx |
bye all. |
11:15 |
mchua_ |
see ya dirakx ! |
11:15 |
|
jt4sugar, let me know if you'd like that wordpress walkthrough now |
11:15 |
jt4sugar |
Yes |
11:16 |
|
Can we do by phone I have a few other ?s |
11:16 |
mchua_ |
jt4sugar: the phone is tough for me, because I can't lipread - if you don't mind IRC, I can try to take your other questions in here as well. |
11:17 |
jt4sugar |
ok |
11:18 |
erikos |
jt4sugar: http://erikos.sweettimez.de/ some info about the blogging here as a start |
11:19 |
jt4sugar |
I look at it |
11:22 |
|
Mel |
11:22 |
mchua_ |
jt4sugar: yes? |
11:23 |
jt4sugar |
Whats next step |
11:26 |
marcopg |
no marketing meeting? |
11:27 |
jt4sugar |
Started at 10am et today |
11:28 |
marcopg |
ah! |
11:28 |
|
late as usual... |
11:29 |
jt4sugar |
Back on at 11am next week |
11:29 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: not late, gregdek sent out the wrong time ;) |
11:29 |
|
jt4sugar: ok - before we start, I'm going to request that you write up the things we're doing now as your first blog post ;) |
11:29 |
marcopg |
mchua_: aaaah! evil gregdek! :) |
11:30 |
mchua_ |
jt4sugar: erikos just put out a blog post, http://erikos.sweettimez.de/?p=50, that linked to http://wordpress.com/features/ - go there. |
11:30 |
jt4sugar |
ok |
11:30 |
mchua_ |
jt4sugar: then click the 'sign up' link |
11:30 |
jt4sugar |
ok |
11:32 |
|
In process of activating blog |
11:34 |
|
Have blog activated now what? |
11:35 |
mchua_ |
jt4sugar: can you send me your blog's url? |
11:36 |
jt4sugar |
where do i find it? |
11:37 |
mchua_ |
jt4sugar: are you viewing your blog in your browser right now? |
11:37 |
jt4sugar |
jt4sugar.wordpress.com |
11:37 |
mchua_ |
clicks |
11:40 |
jt4sugar |
Now i'm logged into my account |
11:41 |
mchua_ |
jt4sugar: great. you're looking at your dashboard now? |
11:41 |
|
jt4sugar: there is a link on the top left hand corner that says "write" |
11:41 |
jt4sugar |
yes |
11:41 |
mchua_ |
jt4sugar: click that, and you should see an editor |
11:41 |
gregdek |
_bernie: ping |
11:42 |
mchua_ |
jt4sugar: write the title, and the post, and then click the "publish" button to the right |
11:43 |
jt4sugar |
dont see write new post? |
11:46 |
mchua_ |
jt4sugar: you said you're logged in to your account? |
11:46 |
|
jt4sugar: describe the screen you see before you, right now. |
11:46 |
erikos |
jt4sugar: at the left top - you see: posts |
11:46 |
|
and then: add new |
11:47 |
jt4sugar |
did that on add new post screen |
11:48 |
erikos |
jt4sugar: then you just need to file in a title and the blog text |
11:48 |
|
jt4sugar: once you are done - best to add it to a category (for example: sugar) |
11:49 |
mchua_ |
(thanks, erikos) |
11:49 |
erikos |
jt4sugar: the category is at the right, and there you can give tags as well |
11:50 |
mchua_ |
jt4sugar: btw, it's usually good practice to put the IRC nick of the person you're talking to in your message, so their screen flashes and they know you're talking to them - most of us have a lot of chats open simultaneously and it helps us keep track of where we should pay attention. ;) |
11:51 |
jt4sugar |
do you just type their name or can you choose it? |
11:51 |
erikos |
jt4sugar: you can use tab for a list to choose from |
11:52 |
|
if i for example want to get your nick i do |
11:52 |
|
a) type: jt |
11:52 |
|
b) hit tab |
11:52 |
|
it then autocompletes |
11:53 |
jt4sugar |
erikos: got it |
11:53 |
erikos |
if the autocomplete is not right you can hit tab again |
11:53 |
|
ok cool |
11:53 |
jt4sugar |
mchua_: is that better |
11:53 |
mchua_ |
jt4sugar: yay! yes, thanks! |
11:54 |
jt4sugar |
mchua_: can you save minutes from this to use as guide |
11:54 |
|
mchua_: I have successfully put up first blog |
11:55 |
mchua_ |
jt4sugar: I'll email you the log from this channel. |
11:55 |
jt4sugar |
erikos: Thanks for the help |
11:55 |
erikos |
jt4sugar: welcome :) |
11:55 |
mchua_ |
jt4sugar: log sent |
11:55 |
|
erikos: echo jt4sugar, thank you! |
11:56 |
jt4sugar |
mchua_: who was meeting of with Evangeline and Laerning Team |
11:56 |
erikos |
jt4sugar: a small note - the post is uncategorixed at the moment |
11:57 |
mchua_ |
jt4sugar: ? not sure if I understand the question |
11:57 |
erikos |
jt4sugar: under posts - you can add a category |
11:57 |
|
jt4sugar: and then update the blog to belong into that category |
11:57 |
|
jt4sugar: that would be lesson 2 |
11:57 |
jt4sugar |
Did you say you made contact between Evangeline and learning team |
11:57 |
erikos |
and enough for today :) |
11:58 |
jt4sugar |
erikos: Will work on 3&4 in Future, Thanks! |
11:58 |
|
mchua_: Did you say you made contact between Evangeline and learning team |
11:59 |
mchua_ |
jt4sugar: evangeline's grad student asked for the thesis of one of the learning team members |
12:00 |
|
jt4sugar: I went "oooh YAY!" and introduced them |
12:00 |
|
jt4sugar: so they do have contact now, and it's a happy contact |
12:00 |
jt4sugar |
mchua_: which member |
12:00 |
cjb |
hi all |
12:01 |
mchua_ |
jt4sugar: claudia urrea |
12:01 |
|
hullo, cjb! |
12:01 |
|
cjb: feeling better? |
12:02 |
jt4sugar |
mchua_: Thanks |
12:02 |
|
mchua_: saw that Chester, Pa getting 1000 XO's do they have loop team |
12:03 |
mchua_ |
jt4sugar: no, they're not using the boston pilot model |
12:03 |
|
jt4sugar: (they're doing their own thing, and probably have not heard about it) |
12:03 |
jt4sugar |
mchua_: what model are they using |
12:03 |
mchua_ |
jt4sugar: don't know. |
12:04 |
jt4sugar |
mchua_: who do I talk to? |
12:05 |
mchua_ |
jt4sugar: I also don't know. |
12:06 |
|
jt4sugar: There's not a good interface to those pilots from OLPC internal atm, and from what I've seen, there's no internal bandwidth to build one right now. I would look for what you can find about the pilots publicly, and try to make contact from the outside that way. |
12:06 |
jt4sugar |
mchua_: Want to know if they have Education School attachment. Good reason to reach out to SJ |
12:06 |
mchua_ |
jt4sugar: (I know that sounds discouraging, but there isn't much I can do about this at the moment - wish there was.) |
12:07 |
cjb |
mchua_: sadly not, think I've got the flu. but good enough to type from bed. :) |
12:07 |
jt4sugar |
mchua_: Not a problem. I will make necessary inroads. Thanks for the learning |
12:08 |
|
mchua_: Opportunity |
12:09 |
|
mchua_: That's all for the moment. Thank You! |
12:09 |
mchua_ |
jt4sugar: thanks - that's exactly what we need. whenever we say 'we can't do much right now,' there is an unspoken "but if you want to do something on your own, /that's awesome./' |
12:10 |
jt4sugar |
mchua_: Appreciate the guidance! |
09:08 |
caroline |
is it deployment meeting time? |
09:13 |
tomeu |
caroline: I think it's time, but maybe this week isn't meeting week |
09:13 |
|
they are biweekly |
09:13 |
caroline |
ah thanks |
09:23 |
icarito |
ah bi-weekly - |
09:23 |
|
caroline: sorry, I thought we had meeting |
09:24 |
caroline |
Sebastion? |
09:24 |
icarito |
caroline: yep |
09:24 |
caroline |
maybe you and I should meet for a few minutes and move ahead on the intern for PD project |
09:27 |
icarito |
caroline: sure |
09:27 |
caroline |
http://sugarlabs.org/go/Workplan_for_PD |
09:28 |
icarito |
caroline: yes i saw that yesterday, what did you think of my course plan?ç |
09:28 |
caroline |
url? |
09:28 |
icarito |
i attached it to you on the email |
09:28 |
|
in spanish |
09:28 |
caroline |
ah looking |
09:28 |
|
ah, I have no spanish :( |
09:29 |
icarito |
ah i see... ok i'll open it for reference |
09:29 |
caroline |
from what you've described here is what I'm guessing soem differences are. |
09:29 |
|
- you are doing a 4 day workshop and for our next stesp in the US we need 1, 2, 4 and 6 hours workshops as people are not as invested. |
09:30 |
|
US schools will have tech support so we probably won't be teaching teachers things like how to install XS. |
09:30 |
|
does that sound right? |
09:30 |
icarito |
caroline: yes i understand |
09:30 |
|
that is why probably only the third day and fourth are relevant |
09:30 |
|
that is working with sugar / and collaboration |
09:30 |
caroline |
so I'm imaginig our goal is to create modular content, because various other places will be somewhere inbetween what you and I are doing. |
09:32 |
icarito |
caroline: what do you mean with modular? |
09:32 |
caroline |
so next steps? |
09:33 |
|
people can recombine the pieces |
09:33 |
icarito |
yes i was thinking too about how to move forward... |
09:33 |
|
i mean how we can collaborate better, how I can be of help to PD |
09:33 |
|
btw PD stads for? |
09:33 |
caroline |
Professional Development |
09:34 |
icarito |
ah |
09:34 |
caroline |
you can edit taht page to something more understandabe to non US people |
09:34 |
|
Sounds like PD is local US jargon |
09:35 |
|
definitely keep an active role in making sure what we do is applicable across cultures. |
09:37 |
icarito |
caroline: the reason i need to teach maintenancee the first couple of days is beacause these will be rural and semi-rural schools, quite isolated... |
09:38 |
caroline |
yes, I understand |
09:38 |
|
they need to be self sufficient |
09:38 |
icarito |
caroline: i'll be happy with any material we can work on about sugar and collaboration, we need to decide the topics we can work together |
09:38 |
caroline |
Ok, so I think maybe next step is to have you and Terri meet on IRC? |
09:39 |
|
What I need help with is checking in with her over the semester,helping her decide what to do next, reviewing work etc. |
09:39 |
|
Also gathering the other people like you and me, who have an interest in creating good training materials. |
09:39 |
icarito |
caroline: i'll be glad to meet her, skype is also fine, you and I could probably do well speaking once |
09:40 |
caroline |
sounds good |
09:40 |
|
I'll send an email out to all concerned. |
09:40 |
|
which country are you from again? |
09:41 |
icarito |
caroline: Peru |
09:41 |
|
caroline: pilar from colombia has already given a workshop |
09:43 |
caroline |
ah cool, who is Pilar? |
09:43 |
icarito |
Pilar Saenz, hangs on IRC with the username "befana" - she's not currently online |
09:43 |
|
her experience is pretty valuable and she has already offered help |
09:43 |
caroline |
ah cool, can you let her know, see if she is interested in collaborating? |
09:44 |
icarito |
she has teaching experience |
09:44 |
caroline |
cool. |
09:44 |
icarito |
so we have sort of a team building up |
09:44 |
caroline |
ok so next steps are we talk to Terri. |
09:44 |
|
Walter is looking into the funding paperwork. |
09:45 |
|
We should make some sort of general post on IAEP that doesn't include any $ numbers. |
09:45 |
icarito |
caroline: yes we should announce it when we're set and have a roadmap |
09:47 |
caroline |
sounds good. I've got putting some sort of update on my todo, not sure when I'll get to it. |
09:47 |
|
but this discussion is recorded by bot so we now have some public record. |
09:47 |
icarito |
caroline: i'd like to see goals that can be measured |
09:47 |
caroline |
agreed |
09:48 |
|
I just added a new section to the wiki page. Feel free to edit |
09:49 |
|
Ok I shoudl get back to work..anything else we should cover today? |
09:50 |
icarito |
caroline: at the moment i cant think of more, but I'll probably write an email during the day |
09:50 |
caroline |
great thanks! see you later |
09:50 |
icarito |
thank you! |
10:56 |
marcopg |
erikos: you should be proud of me, I'm in time today |
10:59 |
erikos |
marcopg: i was just about to say - ''thank you for being in time!'' |
11:02 |
marcopg |
:) |
11:02 |
erikos |
it is 16.00 UTC! |
11:02 |
|
welcome everyone for the BugSquad meeting |
11:02 |
|
agenda of today: http://sugarlabs.org/go/BugSqu[…]gendas/2008-12-17 |
11:02 |
|
ROLL CALL please. |
11:03 |
|
marcopg: looks like your earliness scared people away ;p |
11:04 |
marcopg |
eeek! |
11:04 |
mungewell1 |
Hi, mungewell (aka Simon) from Calgary. Parttime bugster. |
11:05 |
erikos |
mungewell1: hi, thanks for joining in! |
11:05 |
mchua_ |
Mel here, from Boston. full-time Breaker Of Things at OLPC. |
11:05 |
erikos |
mungewell1: you have been quite active already - great to see you here as well! |
11:05 |
marcopg |
hey mungewell1 |
11:06 |
|
hey mchua_ |
11:06 |
mchua_ |
erikos: #startmeeting? |
11:06 |
erikos |
hello mchua_ - thanks for breaking your sleep for us |
11:06 |
|
#startmeeting |
11:06 |
|
oups |
11:06 |
marcopg |
hah |
11:06 |
erikos |
#endmeeting |
11:07 |
marcopg |
someone forgot to stop one? |
11:07 |
erikos |
#stopmeeting |
11:07 |
mchua_ |
looks at meeting.laptop.org |
11:07 |
erikos |
hello tarbo - here for the BugSquad meeting? |
11:08 |
|
thanks mchua_ |
11:08 |
mchua_ |
erikos: It's still running at http://meeting.laptop.org/suga[…]0081212_1112.html from... uh... 5 days ago. _bernie is the current host. |
11:08 |
marcopg |
haha |
11:08 |
erikos |
_bernie: ! |
11:08 |
marcopg |
_bernie: bad! |
11:08 |
mchua_ |
laughs |
11:08 |
marcopg |
infrastructure meeting went a bit long ; |
11:08 |
tarbo |
erikos: i came here because of the meeting, yes. participation was not intended, though, more absorption. is it open? |
11:09 |
marcopg |
) |
11:09 |
erikos |
giggles |
11:09 |
|
tarbo: yes it is open of course |
11:09 |
mchua_ |
we're being logged so it's all right, but we should tease _bernie mercilessly about this until he fixes it ;) |
11:09 |
erikos |
let me repaste the agenda of today |
11:09 |
mchua_ |
anyhoo |
11:09 |
erikos |
http://sugarlabs.org/go/BugSqu[…]gendas/2008-12-17 |
11:09 |
marcopg |
guess we need _bernie to stop it |
11:10 |
erikos |
ok lets start - i will take the minutes by hand - that will work out too |
11:10 |
marcopg |
erikos: maybe try to kick the both off |
11:10 |
|
bot |
11:11 |
mchua_ |
(not worth it right now, imo - meeting first, bot issues later.) |
11:11 |
marcopg |
but yeah, let's just start |
11:11 |
erikos |
to introduce myself i am simon (erikos) schampijer the bugsquad team leader |
11:11 |
marcopg |
mchua_: yup :) |
11:11 |
mchua_ |
hail fearless leader! |
11:11 |
erikos |
now to point 1: |
11:11 |
marcopg |
! |
11:11 |
erikos |
i have drafted a mission: http://sugarlabs.org/go/BugSquad/Mission |
11:12 |
|
do the people agree with that - comments - flames - anything welcome |
11:12 |
mchua_ |
I like it. |
11:12 |
marcopg |
erikos: like it |
11:12 |
mchua_ |
One question - does the bugsquad also go out and actively solicit those bug reports? |
11:12 |
erikos |
(in short: i wanted to express that the bugsquad main mission is to be responsive - to give feedback) |
11:13 |
mchua_ |
I like that focus a *lot.* |
11:13 |
marcopg |
mchua_: i.e. ask people to go test some release? |
11:13 |
tomeu |
(sorry I'm late) |
11:13 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: Yes, and also to go out to downstream projects and say "hey, you should use our bug reporting system." |
11:13 |
erikos |
mchua_: maybe that is more the development team responsible for? not entirely sure |
11:14 |
marcopg |
mchua_: re bug system, think so |
11:14 |
erikos |
thanks loyal tomeu for joining in! |
11:14 |
marcopg |
I'm no sure about soliciting test for a release |
11:14 |
|
might be a good idea though |
11:14 |
|
we will have several distributions of say 0.83 |
11:14 |
erikos |
mchua_: advertise, merketing the use of the trac system sounds interesting |
11:14 |
marcopg |
and, for example, a request of help to test it, enumerating this distributions could help |
11:15 |
erikos |
mchua_: maybe if the squad is responsive - that is advertisement in itself ;p |
11:15 |
marcopg |
erikos: yeah but it cannot be responsive if a distro doesn't go upstream at all :) |
11:16 |
erikos |
marcopg: sure :) so we need the squad to advertise the system |
11:16 |
mchua_ |
erikos: :) I agree. I really like your focus on responsiveness; if at some point "being responsive to incoming bug reports" means "going hmm, we should have more bug reports... let's poke people to do more testing," then great. |
11:16 |
erikos |
the release is advertised by the dev group |
11:16 |
mchua_ |
but always with the "be responsive!" as the driving force. |
11:16 |
erikos |
mchua_: that is a good one yeah ;p |
11:16 |
marcopg |
erikos: advertising the release will not be enough usually I think |
11:16 |
|
erikos: because it's a source release |
11:16 |
|
erikos: at some point it will be packaged/shipped in distros |
11:17 |
mchua_ |
anyway, +1 from me on the mission as it stands; I can't think of any ways to make it better. |
11:17 |
marcopg |
erikos: and at that point someone will have to solicit testing |
11:17 |
|
maybe dev, maybe bugsquad |
11:17 |
|
tend to like bugsquad, maybe just because it's you and not me :P |
11:17 |
|
yeah, think we are done on mission |
11:17 |
erikos |
marcopg: ok - i don't mind making this a task of the bugsquad |
11:18 |
|
marcopg: i will add it |
11:18 |
|
next point |
11:18 |
|
b) What is needed in trac to start triaging? |
11:18 |
mchua_ |
is m_stone's http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Trac_ticket_workflow a useful framework, erikos? |
11:18 |
|
(or maybe a useful framework to start from and modify?) |
11:19 |
erikos |
mchua_: yup i liked most of it |
11:19 |
|
a) we need all sucrose components present |
11:20 |
|
i created me a todo for that |
11:20 |
marcopg |
part of it is probably not relevant to upstream tracker, so we can simplify some |
11:20 |
erikos |
yup |
11:20 |
marcopg |
the builds stuff, for example |
11:20 |
mchua_ |
off the top of my head, from the OLPC test perspective, I'd like (a) a way to flag tickets my test group / downstream project is interested in, (b) a way to track them against our milestones downstream (this doesn't have to be in your tracker, it probably should be in ours, but we should figure that part out). |
11:21 |
marcopg |
mchua_: re 2, would be tag be enough? |
11:21 |
mchua_ |
...basically, I want the ability to look at bugs from both a "downstream perspective" (with all our custom milestones and fields and stuff) and an "upstream perspective" (yours). |
11:21 |
erikos |
mchua_: yeah agreed that makes sense |
11:21 |
|
maybe we can add tags for distributions? |
11:21 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: I think it might be more scaleable to make some way of easily tracking parallel bugs in downstream/upstream trackers (starting with downstream trac, expanding to other bug reporting options as there are downstream projects that come in and want to use them.) |
11:22 |
erikos |
(ubuntu, fedora, olpc...) |
11:22 |
marcopg |
or a distribution field |
11:22 |
|
mchua_: not sure to understand what you are thinking about in concrete |
11:22 |
mchua_ |
we do it for OLPC deployments with a textfield and known tags we match (for instance, "Uruguay," or "Mongolia") |
11:22 |
erikos |
marcopg: what would your distribution field contain? |
11:23 |
marcopg |
erikos: a list of distributions, I think bugzilla has something like that too |
11:23 |
erikos |
marcopg: ok - that is what i thought as well |
11:23 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: let's say I (OLPC downstream) find a bug in my Sugar distro, bug #1234, that I want to get fixed for... say... our ABC release milestone. I put it in my bug tracker, tag it with all the appropriate OLPC trac-magic because that's the system we're using, and then... |
11:24 |
|
...how do you guys track and fix it upstream? |
11:24 |
|
how does it get there? |
11:24 |
|
how do I know it gets fixed so I can reflect the status back down here? |
11:24 |
|
do I need to pay attention to your milestones and trac instance as well? |
11:24 |
marcopg |
ok, so the simple and low tech way to do it is to file a bug upstream |
11:24 |
|
ah, so you want to be able to track the changes to the upstream bug from the downstream trac instance? |
11:25 |
mchua_ |
Ok, so it's my responsibility to make sure that bug gets filed upstream, and to hook up my tracker to follow it? |
11:25 |
|
(and yeah, being able to track the changes to the upstream bug from a downstream trac instance would be pretty handy - I can try to think of a plugin design that would accomplish this, if it's something that sounds good to others.) |
11:26 |
marcopg |
mchua_: ideally I think your trac instance would observe the upstream report and log changes |
11:26 |
erikos |
just remember that nt everyone is using trac |
11:26 |
mchua_ |
aye, the responsibility should be on downstream to make sure we're getting what we need, I think |
11:26 |
marcopg |
in particular it would notice when the bug is closed as fixed |
11:26 |
mchua_ |
nods |
11:26 |
erikos |
so the policy must be defined first |
11:26 |
mchua_ |
but I am, so I care about trac. ;) |
11:26 |
marcopg |
mchua_: sorry to throw you responsibilities but yeah I think so :) |
11:27 |
|
is giving all responsibilities to mchua_ and erikos today |
11:27 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: no, I'm happy to take them on! just wanted to make sure that we clarified which side of the fence the burden falls on. :) |
11:27 |
erikos |
mchua_: absolutely |
11:27 |
mchua_ |
...in general, for all downstream projects, *not just OLPC.* *coughcough* |
11:27 |
marcopg |
mchua_: happy to help out with implementation if you like (I don't know trac, but I can learn) |
11:27 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: remember my mythical "coding fridays?" ;) I've done a trac plugin before. And then there's coderanger. |
11:28 |
marcopg |
coding fridays! |
11:28 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: but yep, I'll probably be pestering you for design/python help regardless. ;) |
11:28 |
erikos |
ok can we some up the policy: |
11:28 |
marcopg |
mchua_: you should do coding nights instead, you would have a bunch of time :) |
11:28 |
|
offtopic, sorry ;) |
11:28 |
|
mchua_: cool :) |
11:28 |
erikos |
so the downstream must take care of being in sync |
11:29 |
|
what the upstream provides are ways to tag the bugs |
11:29 |
|
so they can be filtered more easily |
11:29 |
|
does that sound right? |
11:29 |
marcopg |
a way to tag the bugs upstream seems useful to me yeah |
11:29 |
|
mchua_? |
11:29 |
mchua_ |
but we can request the bugsquad to implement software features in trac, and policies for trac usage, so that we can take care of being in sync more easily? |
11:29 |
marcopg |
(it's useful also for developers btw, to know where the bug was observed) |
11:30 |
erikos |
mchua_: yup - easpacialy the policies |
11:30 |
|
marcopg: right - that is another point |
11:30 |
marcopg |
mchua_: software features for the downstream trac instance? |
11:30 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: upstream (SL) trac. |
11:31 |
|
(downstream should take care of their own trac - but if there's something we want to do that requires modification to SL's tracker, we need to ask.) |
11:31 |
marcopg |
mchua_: oh sure. not sure which features you are thinking about though |
11:31 |
|
mchua_: definately, whatever you need upstream you should ask, I tihnk |
11:31 |
mchua_ |
My mythical, future, to-be-proposed-and-designed "magic sync our bugs across trac instances" trac plugin, for example. |
11:31 |
|
sweet. |
11:31 |
marcopg |
you can also ask yourself as a member of the upstream bugsquad :P |
11:32 |
mchua_ |
then erikos, I think I'm good with that as far as OLPC's test community is concerned. ;) I am pretty sure that every downstream project is going to have individual requests and issues, but I'm totally comfortable working those out with you guys as they come up. |
11:32 |
|
*grin* |
11:32 |
|
marcopg: point taken. :) |
11:32 |
marcopg |
we should probably look into what rh and ubuntu does about this btw |
11:32 |
erikos |
mchua_: great! |
11:32 |
marcopg |
not trac, but still workflows |
11:32 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: and gnome |
11:32 |
marcopg |
mchua_: yup |
11:32 |
erikos |
marcopg: ok sounds like a good action item |
11:33 |
|
who does ubuntu - who does fedora? |
11:33 |
marcopg |
I can take fedora |
11:33 |
|
fedora + gnome |
11:33 |
erikos |
do we have ubuntu people here? |
11:33 |
marcopg |
mungewell1 ! |
11:34 |
|
wonder if mchua_ is an evil ubuntu user |
11:34 |
erikos |
#ACTION: marcopg to look at the upstream/downstream interaction fedora+gnome |
11:34 |
mchua_ |
is an evil ubuntu user for this round (and also switches distros every... nowadays, about once a year to stay on her toes) |
11:34 |
erikos |
ok you can come to me after the meeting as well if you are shy :) |
11:34 |
|
next point: |
11:35 |
marcopg |
mchua_: I read your laptop is unstable, now I see why ;) |
11:35 |
|
mchua_: switch to fedora now! :) |
11:35 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: fedora's next up, though. ;) I figured FUDCON would be a good time to start that up, since it's my distro o' experimentation for 2009. |
11:35 |
|
is offtopic, sorry. um... focusing! |
11:35 |
marcopg |
mchua_: :) |
11:35 |
erikos |
(I will add the components and milestones later today) |
11:35 |
marcopg |
my fault, sorry |
11:35 |
erikos |
Meetings: when/if |
11:35 |
mchua_ |
oversight meetings, or triaging sprints? |
11:35 |
erikos |
what would a bugsquad do during their meetings? |
11:35 |
marcopg |
oh next point already? |
11:36 |
|
we have not yet figured out what we need to start using |
11:36 |
|
milestones, releases etc |
11:36 |
|
happy to do that off-meeting if you want |
11:36 |
mchua_ |
oversight meetings (like this one), as infrequently as needed... like SLOBS, probably frequent as we start up, but taper off to once a quarter when possible? (may not be possible for a long time, maybe a few release cycles.) |
11:36 |
erikos |
we can do it bi-weekly as well |
11:36 |
|
not sure |
11:36 |
|
don't think we need a weekly meeting for it |
11:36 |
marcopg |
I'd suggest to schedule one in two weeks |
11:36 |
mchua_ |
erikos: a sprint meeting I'm thinking of something like http://live.gnome.org/Bugsquad/BugDays as a potential nice entry point for new members, and a good check-in for regular ones |
11:37 |
marcopg |
and then we go from there, depending on where we are |
11:37 |
erikos |
mchua_: right that is what i had in mind as well |
11:37 |
mchua_ |
woo! |
11:37 |
erikos |
marcopg: ok - so we do every 2 weeks |
11:37 |
marcopg |
erikos: I'd not say every two weeks |
11:37 |
|
might not even be necessary |
11:37 |
erikos |
oh i see |
11:37 |
|
ok |
11:38 |
|
next point |
11:38 |
|
Sprints: when/if |
11:38 |
|
what mchua said |
11:38 |
marcopg |
I like the idea of sprints |
11:38 |
|
especially to get people started |
11:38 |
erikos |
good |
11:38 |
marcopg |
I thnk we should also setup things so that triaging happens async though |
11:38 |
|
because it needs to be a continuous |
11:38 |
erikos |
yup and it is more 'get your hands on' |
11:38 |
|
cooler than meetings |
11:38 |
marcopg |
we can't stop for two weeks and then get back at it |
11:39 |
|
should triage sprints coordinated with downstream testing? |
11:39 |
|
testing sprints that is |
11:39 |
|
might be nice to have people around at the same time |
11:39 |
erikos |
triaging needs absolutely happen all the time |
11:39 |
marcopg |
so that bugsquad can help testers to file tickets directly |
11:39 |
erikos |
not only at sprints |
11:39 |
mchua_ |
"you can always triage at any time, and if you'd like to schedule your own sugar triage sprint, please do and announce it $here! if you're new and want help getting started but can't make a sprint, ask $here_2." |
11:40 |
erikos |
mchua_: yup :) |
11:40 |
|
marcopg: ok - sounds like a nice idea |
11:40 |
marcopg |
and testers can start getting involved in triaging work :P |
11:40 |
erikos |
evil marcopg |
11:40 |
marcopg |
stilll wants to steal as many people as possible from mchua_ |
11:40 |
|
:) |
11:40 |
mchua_ |
hm - speaking as a "downstream testing" person, all I want to know is when regular triage sprints will happen, so I can push my requests upstream before each sprint, if I want/need to. |
11:40 |
erikos |
so we need to find out when downstream is doing testing |
11:41 |
marcopg |
mchua_: oh, so we are thinking of regular triage meetings |
11:41 |
erikos |
mchua_: oh ok - so testers sync on bugsquad not the other way around |
11:41 |
mchua_ |
erikos: Yeah, I think that makes more sense especially if you folks get a lot of downstream projects. |
11:41 |
marcopg |
those could be quickly |
11:41 |
|
mchua_: at some point we will ;) |
11:41 |
erikos |
mchua_: good |
11:41 |
mchua_ |
erikos: Having an independent SL cycle that we know will stay stable will give us a good incentive to conform and adjust to you. ;) |
11:42 |
marcopg |
gah s/quickly/weekly |
11:42 |
|
mchua_: that applies to the development schedule too :P |
11:42 |
erikos |
great - so we agree it looks like |
11:42 |
|
weekly triage meetings |
11:43 |
|
next topic |
11:43 |
|
is fast today |
11:43 |
|
Do we need a dedicated mailing list? |
11:43 |
marcopg |
woa |
11:43 |
erikos |
so we have announcements - |
11:44 |
|
any other traffic that needs to be handled by the bugsquad? |
11:44 |
|
email wise? |
11:44 |
marcopg |
irc seems a better communication channel to me |
11:44 |
mchua_ |
questions on how to triage something, when working asynchronously? |
11:44 |
marcopg |
for the bugsquad |
11:44 |
erikos |
mchua_: questions about a specific bug you mean? |
11:45 |
mchua_ |
I think it's small enough that we can tag [bugsquad] and [bugsquad][announce] on iaep atm, and when enough momentum builds split off a new list (say... when there are 15 people that request it and say they'll be active discussion participants.) |
11:45 |
marcopg |
mchua_: I'm not sure the traffic would be enough to be worth a sep list |
11:45 |
|
mchua_: right |
11:45 |
mchua_ |
erikos: yeah, like "I was triaging bug #567 but didn't know what to do." |
11:45 |
erikos |
cool |
11:45 |
|
likes the use of tags |
11:45 |
|
anyone opposed to that? |
11:45 |
marcopg |
and I guess we can use #sugar as irc channel |
11:45 |
erikos |
so speak up now? |
11:46 |
marcopg |
or maybe #sugar-meeting for the sprints |
11:46 |
erikos |
yup - if we grow we can still get another channel |
11:46 |
|
marcopg: yup sugar-meeting for the sprints |
11:46 |
|
and regularly - people can ask on #sugar |
11:47 |
|
next topic |
11:47 |
|
(always speak up if you have something to say) |
11:47 |
|
i just try to get the agenda done :) |
11:47 |
|
Create a list of concrete tasks we expect the BugSquad to do regularly |
11:47 |
marcopg |
heh you turned into mchua_ now |
11:47 |
|
you will finish in 1h exactly |
11:47 |
erikos |
well you were in time today - so want i :))) |
11:48 |
marcopg |
:) |
11:48 |
mchua_ |
maintain the BugSquad wiki pages (especially with policies like "we use #sugar for discussion, tag your iaep posts this way") |
11:48 |
marcopg |
* add components, tags, milestones |
11:48 |
mchua_ |
* triage tickets, of course. :) |
11:48 |
erikos |
mchua_: yup - will directly update we have from the info from today |
11:48 |
marcopg |
mchua_: what does triage entail? |
11:49 |
mchua_ |
* provide feedback on how to improve bug advocacy on a ticket, when requested. ("How could I have written this bug report better / which developers should I ping on it"?) |
11:49 |
marcopg |
for OLPC it has been mainly set a milestone |
11:49 |
|
but in this case we probably want the maintainers to set milestones |
11:50 |
erikos |
look here: http://sugarlabs.org/go/BugSquad/TriageGuide |
11:50 |
|
did everyone read the triage guide as homework as requested? |
11:50 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: hm... good question. What I'd like to see is that no matter what comes into the tracker, when it's done passing through BugSquad and marked as "triage is done," it has (1) a SL milestone, (2) a well-written bug report, since sometimes folks aren't going to submit good ones, and (3) a suggestion on the next step to push it to developers for fixing - who to talk to, etc. |
11:50 |
marcopg |
erikos: I was in time, now don't pretend I did the homework too :P |
11:50 |
erikos |
marcopg: :) |
11:50 |
mchua_ |
http://sugarlabs.org/go/BugSqu[…]tentToEdit/Triage ? |
11:50 |
marcopg |
erikos: (seriously, no, sorry, and it looks great) |
11:51 |
erikos |
mchua_: yup we - handle the not well written cases |
11:51 |
|
mchua_: we even have stock responses :p |
11:51 |
mchua_ |
erikos: whoa, awesome! |
11:51 |
|
erikos: I need to borrow some of those stock responses for OLPC QA... where can I find 'em? |
11:51 |
marcopg |
mchua_: the tricky bit in your list is 1 to me |
11:52 |
erikos |
http://sugarlabs.org/go/BugSqu[…]de/StockResponses |
11:52 |
mchua_ |
ooOOoo. |
11:52 |
|
thank you! |
11:52 |
marcopg |
mchua_: it makes total sense in the olpc context, where you have customers you need to make happy |
11:52 |
erikos |
from the gnome bugsquad mainly |
11:52 |
marcopg |
mchua_: but in the SL context, who decide the priorities and hence assigns milestones? |
11:53 |
erikos |
marcopg: maintainer i would say |
11:53 |
|
marcopg: maybe maintainer and bugsquad can work together? |
11:53 |
marcopg |
yeah maybe the squad role is to ensure that the maintainer set a milestone |
11:54 |
erikos |
means: if the squad does do the pre work and then assign to the maintainer to set the stone |
11:54 |
|
marcopg: absolutely |
11:54 |
marcopg |
so maybe it's 3 steps |
11:54 |
|
1 the bug gets in |
11:54 |
|
2 bug squad make it nice (2-3 in mchua_ list) |
11:54 |
|
3 maintainer assign a milestone |
11:54 |
erikos |
sounds right to me |
11:55 |
mchua_ |
+1 from me. |
11:55 |
erikos |
4 the dev does fix it :) |
11:55 |
marcopg |
erikos: nah, the reporter does |
11:55 |
mchua_ |
and 5, downstream takes the patch and puts it into their version and verifies and tests downstream, as needed. ;) |
11:55 |
erikos |
well who needs fixed bugs ;p |
11:55 |
marcopg |
mchua_ should start training her team ;) |
11:55 |
mchua_ |
whoa, gregdek in da house! |
11:55 |
marcopg |
hey gregdek |
11:55 |
mchua_ |
salutes marcopg |
11:56 |
gregdek |
whatdido? |
11:56 |
erikos |
hmm i think we did rock the agenda today, or? |
11:56 |
mchua_ |
erikos TOTALLY rocked the agenda. |
11:56 |
marcopg |
gregdek: we are just happy that you are around |
11:56 |
erikos |
ok i will update the wiki and send minutes |
11:57 |
|
marcopg: maybe we can do the trac work after the next meeting? |
11:57 |
marcopg |
throws something random to mchua_ |
11:57 |
|
just for the pleasure of doing it ;) |
11:57 |
mchua_ |
I believe my only action item is to be a vocal downstream, including seeing if I can spec out the trac plugin OLPC downstream (right now, "me") wants |
11:57 |
|
catches it |
11:57 |
marcopg |
gah! :P |
11:57 |
mchua_ |
ooh, cotton candy. thanks, marcopg! |
11:57 |
|
munches happily |
11:58 |
marcopg |
haha |
11:58 |
erikos |
mchua_: yeah - filling that role constantly is a great task! |
11:58 |
marcopg |
stops making noises and let erikos go on |
11:58 |
erikos |
ok - anyone does have a topic he wants to bring up? |
11:58 |
|
(the agenda is done) |
11:58 |
|
questions? |
11:58 |
|
flames? |
11:58 |
marcopg |
yeah |
11:59 |
|
back to 1 |
11:59 |
|
who takes care of fixing trac up? |
11:59 |
|
there is a ticket about it even |
11:59 |
|
we miss a bunch of setup |
11:59 |
mchua_ |
(I'm going to be going around with my "how easy is it to join teams?" measuring stick later this week - possibly on saturday or sunday - so I'll probably holler about n00b-friendliness then, but nothing now) |
11:59 |
marcopg |
(components etc) |
11:59 |
erikos |
marcopg: i want to do it with you after the next meeting |
12:00 |
marcopg |
erikos: naaah, dinner and then I'm going out |
12:00 |
|
erikos: but ok cool |
12:00 |
|
mchua_: noob friendliness of trac setup? |
12:00 |
|
or of the team? |
12:00 |
erikos |
marcopg: i just go back and forth with you - you only need to say - ok with your pan mostly ;) |
12:01 |
|
we can do it tomorrow as well |
12:01 |
marcopg |
erikos: like that! |
12:01 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: both |
12:01 |
erikos |
ok so we are done |
12:01 |
marcopg |
mchua_: ok cool, I like noobs, sometimes :) |
12:01 |
erikos |
thanks everyone for joining in!!! |
12:01 |
marcopg |
erikos: better than mchua_, I'm so proud of you man! |
12:01 |
mungewell1 |
erikos: regarding Ubuntu people. There are a few joined to 'ubuntu sugar team', so it's not just me ;-) |
12:01 |
mchua_ |
marcopg +1! |
12:01 |
erikos |
and i guess nobody found the bug of the week in my email: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A[…]ma_haemorrhoidale |
12:01 |
mchua_ |
ha! |
12:02 |
erikos |
mungewell1: cool :) |
12:02 |
marcopg |
mungewell1: want to take the action to summarize their workflow? |
12:02 |
|
mungewell1: would be useful, I'm looking into fedora here... |
12:02 |
mchua_ |
...whoa, cool. "The stink comes from aldehydes such as CH3(CH2)2CH=CHCHO." |
12:02 |
marcopg |
erikos: hah |
12:03 |
erikos |
marcopg: or maybe ask someone of the team to do it - you are our contact for now ;) |
12:03 |
|
damn |
12:03 |
|
mungewell1: or maybe ask someone of the team to do it - you are our contact for now ;) |
12:03 |
marcopg |
mungewell1: we are interested into figuring out how ubuntu tracks upstream bugs mainly |
12:04 |
mungewell1 |
I can mention it on the mailing list, but I don't know how organised they/we are for now. |
12:04 |
marcopg |
mungewell1: oh I meant in general, not just sugar |
12:04 |
|
how ubuntu handles it for GNOME, for example |
12:04 |
mungewell1 |
marcopg: launchpad..... it's supposedily really easy to tag a launchpad bug with an upstream bug report, and it automatically tracks it. |
12:05 |
marcopg |
mungewell1: a description of how that works would be nice :) |
12:05 |
erikos |
morgs: might know as well |
12:05 |
marcopg |
(or even just a pointer to an example ticket) |
12:05 |
mungewell1 |
if only I knew... I'll look into it. Where do you want he comment left. Wiki? |
12:06 |
marcopg |
erikos: ^ |
12:06 |
|
mungewell1: yay, thanks :) |
12:06 |
mchua_ |
erikos, marcopg, did you still need to talk with me about Activity testing or... something that we didn't cover last time? I don't recall exactly what it was. |
12:06 |
marcopg |
not sleeping is so bad for mchua_! |
12:07 |
mungewell1 |
example of cross reported bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubu[…]sugar/+bug/295113 |
12:07 |
erikos |
mungewell1: you can either add it to: http://sugarlabs.org/go/BugSquad/Resources or send me email |
12:07 |
marcopg |
mchua_: that would be the topic of the next meeting :) activities, olpc, autotesting |
12:07 |
erikos |
mungewell1: erikos AT sugarlabs.org |
12:07 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: yeah, I woke up this morning with the Sore Throat From Hell; pushing fluids from home to stay productive |
12:07 |
|
marcopg: w00t. that's supposed to be now-ish, or "when erikos and mungewell1 are done coordinating," iirc. |
12:08 |
marcopg |
mchua_: next time I'll wake up earlier and start bugging you about going to sleep before you get completely out of mind :P |
12:08 |
erikos |
done - thanks very much everyone - was very productive! |
12:08 |
marcopg |
erikos: stop the both this time :) |
12:08 |
|
oh hrm |
12:08 |
|
we have no bot |
12:08 |
|
not very awake either! |
12:08 |
erikos |
no control! |
12:09 |
mchua_ |
_bernie: #endmeeting pls! |
12:09 |
marcopg |
went to sleep at 4 am too |
12:09 |
|
ok I guess we can start the next meeting now |
12:09 |
|
I'm supposed to run it, but I don't know how to run meetings |
12:10 |
|
but it's only a few of us, so it won't be too bad! |
12:10 |
|
so activities |
12:10 |
|
the question last time was... who tests activities? |
12:10 |
|
mchua_: is the olpc community testing group going to do it? |
12:10 |
mchua_ |
"Not OLPC," says the Mel. "Only when we want to verify Activities we're shipping on the default image for XOs," says the Mel. |
12:11 |
marcopg |
mchua_: OLPC as org or as community too? |
12:11 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: as org, and as far as the org will support community testing, at least for now. |
12:12 |
|
marcopg: there's a reason I started off community testers with g1g1-2008 activities - it's a really easy way to argue that this, clearly, is something OLPC Should Have Tested, as we Ship It. |
12:12 |
marcopg |
mchua_: so OLPC strategy is to rely on upstream worth activities quality? |
12:12 |
|
mchua_: that's what I think too, if you ship something you need to test it |
12:12 |
|
from the upstream point of view |
12:12 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: Well, it's tricky. We definitely don't *support* Activities, even the few we ship. |
12:13 |
marcopg |
mchua_: I understand, but I've not been able to make sense out of that yet |
12:13 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: and with limited resources, I would prioritize OLPC testing towards XO-specific code (like our build, say.) |
12:13 |
|
marcopg: hm, then I should try to clarify... is there any particular point you had questions on? |
12:13 |
|
marcopg: or should I start trying to explain my current understanding of it? |
12:13 |
marcopg |
mchua_: prioritizing make sense clearly... but I don't see how you can not support something you ship |
12:14 |
|
I guess what I'm unclear on is |
12:14 |
|
how does it make sense to ship a product, and *not* support a very relevant part of it? |
12:14 |
|
think to the extreme case |
12:14 |
|
if no activities would work |
12:15 |
|
what good would it be if the OS/core Sugar was perfect? |
12:15 |
mchua_ |
Oh, I agree that without Activities, a perfect ship of Sugar/XO-OS would be useless. |
12:15 |
marcopg |
mchua_: but you disagree that OLPC should ensure that Activities are working well? |
12:16 |
erikos |
can not kick the bot - just tried |
12:16 |
mchua_ |
Maybe a similar case would be... I'm not sure how Red Hat support works, but if someone writes $random_third_party_application, Red Hat doesn't necessarily support it automagically, right? |
12:16 |
marcopg |
mchua_: totally agreed about random third parties |
12:16 |
|
mchua_: but making every activity a random third party seems to push it too far |
12:17 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: I disagree that it is the responsibility of OLPC to ensure all Sugar Activities are working well. I agree it is the responsibility of OLPC - a responsibility towards its customers - to ensure a small subset of Sugar Activities they're likely to care about are working well. |
12:17 |
marcopg |
mchua_: then we completely agree :) |
12:17 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: I think that this responsibility can best be carried out by making sure that a non-OLPC test/dev group for that Activity (which may include OLPC employees) makes sure that Activity works well, |
12:18 |
marcopg |
so OLPC, through his community or not, should make sure that this small subset is tested, right? |
12:18 |
mchua_ |
since it's likely for Activities we ship (and therefore have a responsibility to sanity-check) to change from build to biuld. |
12:18 |
|
marcopg: Yep. |
12:18 |
|
marcopg: Kind of like how OLPC QA has a vested interest in having SL's BugSquad triage awesomely, even though SL's BugSquad is Not Us. (In fact, we have a huge incentive to keep the two separate.) |
12:18 |
marcopg |
mchua_: make sure that the activity works well on the XO |
12:19 |
|
(I guess) |
12:19 |
|
so this is still some kind of downstream testing, prolly |
12:19 |
|
mchua_: did you already start to work on this? or is it just a plan? |
12:19 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: Yep. But OLPC QA won't really care if the Activity works well in, say, Debian. And probably can't justify resources spent to do that. Just on the stuff we ship, and on whether it works on the XO. |
12:20 |
marcopg |
mchua_: sure, that's why I call it downstream testing |
12:20 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: Well, the G1G1-2008 Activity testing is my first attempt at that limited sphere of responsibility (and it's far from perfect, but better than the almost-nothing we had before.) |
12:20 |
marcopg |
mchua_: my feeling is that this kind of testing should *not* go through SL basically |
12:21 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: I don't want that to be interpreted as "OLPC will do all Activity testing, ever!" though - and want to work with SL to find ways to encourage Other People to do it. |
12:21 |
|
it'll make both of our lives easier. |
12:21 |
|
marcopg: I agree it shouldn't be a SL thing either. |
12:21 |
marcopg |
mchua_: and that from the upstream point of view it should probably work just like core testing |
12:21 |
|
i.e. we get and triage the bug reports |
12:21 |
|
(and fix them hopefully!) |
12:21 |
erikos |
agreed here |
12:22 |
marcopg |
OK |
12:22 |
|
this is really cool |
12:22 |
|
mchua_: thanks a lot, I was really struggling to understand olpc position on activities! |
12:22 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: well, wait... is Activity development (making sure Activity bugs get fixed) the responsibility of core-sugar devs? |
12:22 |
|
basically, "Who's Responsible For Activities?" |
12:22 |
marcopg |
mchua_: nope, of the activity upstreams |
12:22 |
|
well |
12:22 |
|
not exactly |
12:22 |
|
so |
12:22 |
mchua_ |
Is it SL? The Activity maintainer (as an independent project?) |
12:22 |
marcopg |
we have a group of activities |
12:23 |
|
which are part of the SL release process |
12:23 |
mchua_ |
It's definitely not OLPC, except for the "we need to check what we ship" bit. |
12:23 |
|
listens |
12:23 |
marcopg |
the group is called Fructose |
12:23 |
|
I'm not completely sure it's the right setup |
12:23 |
|
and I'm willing to question that at some point |
12:23 |
|
but, as long as, things are setup this way |
12:24 |
|
I think SL as a community is responsible for the Fructose activities |
12:24 |
|
and only for those |
12:24 |
erikos |
development and triaging wise |
12:24 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: in the same way OLPC is responsible for the Activities we ship in signed images? |
12:24 |
marcopg |
for the other activities we basically provide services |
12:24 |
erikos |
mchua_: yup |
12:24 |
marcopg |
mchua_: not quite |
12:24 |
|
mchua_: in the same way we are responsible for the core |
12:25 |
erikos |
mchua_: they are officially part of the release |
12:25 |
marcopg |
SL doesn't have customers, so we are not responsible in the same sense as olpc |
12:25 |
erikos |
oh right |
12:25 |
marcopg |
we don't do support etc |
12:26 |
|
mchua_: is it clear how it's supposed to work? And I'd also like your opinion about how good is this setup, or how you'd see it work |
12:26 |
|
(we can't change it for 0.84 at this point, but we might reconsider down the way) |
12:26 |
|
my feeling lately is that this setup is too inflexible |
12:27 |
|
different deployments might want pretty different set of activities |
12:27 |
erikos |
marcopg: yeah - but we have only a very small core |
12:27 |
|
marcopg: and sugar without that core is nothing |
12:27 |
marcopg |
erikos: yup, but it would grow ideally |
12:28 |
erikos |
marcopg: the core? |
12:28 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: but so would the maintenance you have to do |
12:28 |
|
(you == SL) |
12:28 |
marcopg |
mchua_: sure and that's part of the reason I'm starting to dislike it ;) |
12:28 |
mchua_ |
So, as I understand it, what other open-source projects have done to solve this problem is to market it as "You've got to make your Activity good enough to include in our Release of Awesome." |
12:28 |
marcopg |
we might spend time maintaining things which would not be generally useful |
12:28 |
mchua_ |
(which includes stuff like testing and docs.) |
12:29 |
marcopg |
mchua_: very correct |
12:29 |
|
and also |
12:29 |
|
the application should be somewhat generally useful |
12:29 |
|
and obviously not duplicate anything else in the core |
12:29 |
|
s/core/release |
12:29 |
mchua_ |
Being chosen for Fructose, or the G1G1 image, is an *honor.* It's an honor we don't have as much transparency on (as in, "I wish my Activity could be included, what do I have to do?" does not exist.) |
12:30 |
marcopg |
mchua_: it does exist :) |
12:30 |
|
perhaps not well communicated though! |
12:30 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: hm, I am missing many things then :) where do I find this? |
12:30 |
marcopg |
somewhere on the wiki |
12:30 |
|
:P |
12:30 |
|
(re not well communicated...) |
12:30 |
|
let me see |
12:31 |
|
mchua_: http://sugarlabs.org/go/Develo[…]_modules_proposal |
12:31 |
|
mchua_: I mailed the list about it a couple of times |
12:31 |
|
and we had a few proposals about it |
12:32 |
|
but well, yeah, the documentation is very poor etc |
12:32 |
|
mchua_: the fact that you had no idea about it, is obviously an indication that something is broken communication wise :( |
12:32 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: oh! I mostly meant for OLPC (Greg Smith has done an admirable job of starting to collect proposals and make that process more transparent for 8.2.0, though). |
12:33 |
marcopg |
mchua_: oh I thought you was referring to SL. SL sucks at that anyway :) Greg has been doing better! |
12:33 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: but, yeah, I think it applies to both SL and OLPC (although in slightly different degrees/ways). |
12:34 |
|
<3 greg smith. I don't know what we'd do without him. |
12:34 |
marcopg |
so the consensus here is that we should keep Fructose but be careful to not expand it too much? |
12:35 |
|
that's at least my understanding of what erikos and mchua_ was saying |
12:35 |
erikos |
sounds good with me |
12:35 |
|
marcopg: as well - activities can be dropped or replaced in my opinion |
12:35 |
marcopg |
erikos: sure |
12:35 |
|
(though in practice removal is sort of difficult) |
12:36 |
mchua_ |
from the perspective of OLPC, Fructose probably doesn't matter as much (only inasmuch as it overlaps with what we've chosen to ship, really. ;) |
12:36 |
|
but that sounds good to me. |
12:36 |
|
back to the original question of "who tests Activities?" - it sounds like neither SL nor OLPC can take responsibility over all Activity testing, only sanity checking (and needed testing) on the subset we've decided to be responsible for. |
12:36 |
|
so my question is what we can do to work together to encourage Activity maintainers to test their own Activities, to ease the load on both of us as "downstream." |
12:36 |
marcopg |
mchua_: the idea is that it will tend to overlap a lot with what you decided to ship, otherwise Fructose is going to be pretty useless |
12:37 |
mchua_ |
...until OLPC doesn't make up nearly all of SL's user base, but yeah. |
12:37 |
marcopg |
yeah that's a good question |
12:38 |
|
activity testing sprints sounds like a great thing, independently from who organize them |
12:38 |
erikos |
yup testing sprints sounds great |
12:38 |
marcopg |
stuff like SoaS will also get in quite a bit of testing on activities hopefully |
12:38 |
mchua_ |
I think Activity testing infrastructure helps too; that's what I've been trying to set up from the OLPC side - I hope that what we've come up with is migrateable. |
12:38 |
marcopg |
maybe activity testing sprints should be co-organized by SL and OLPC |
12:39 |
|
(and by SoaS etc) |
12:39 |
mchua_ |
marcopg and erikos, can SL host the Activity development and testing resources? |
12:39 |
marcopg |
a bunch of people testing the same activities on a bunch of different distros |
12:39 |
|
lots of fun! |
12:39 |
|
mchua_: I think so |
12:39 |
mchua_ |
like their trac instances, and where we report bugs on them, and gitorious and such for them? (I know some of this is already in the works.) |
12:39 |
erikos |
mchua_: development ressources we do host |
12:39 |
marcopg |
mchua_: hosting at SL sounds like a good idea |
12:39 |
erikos |
mchua_: we just moved git |
12:40 |
mchua_ |
Excellent. How can I move the current Activity testing resources upstream, then? |
12:40 |
|
Both in terms of infrastructure, but also process and the people who are doing the testing? |
12:40 |
marcopg |
can you enumerate the infra you need to move? |
12:40 |
|
or I can do it, if you like |
12:41 |
mchua_ |
is trying to steer helpful resources in the SL-hat direction, and trying to make it as easy as possible to take and clone (and then we'll delete it here) |
12:41 |
|
marcopg: the move should take place after Dec. 25, when our current Activity test sprint ends. But basically, http://wiki.laptop.org/go/G1G1_Activity_testing and all the resources that it links to. |
12:41 |
|
(or things that serve the same purpose.) |
12:41 |
marcopg |
mchua_: wiki pages only? |
12:42 |
|
I'm planning to help moving dev resources here |
12:42 |
|
git and trac compoennts |
12:42 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: also a trac infrastructure for reporting bugs, but it sounds like you already have that down |
12:42 |
|
marcopg: maybe a more coherent way of rephrasing it would be |
12:42 |
|
"if SL is hosting Activity development/testing as a service to the Activity development/user community, there are some things I think it should provide" |
12:43 |
marcopg |
mchua_: things == infrastructure? |
12:43 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: yeah |
12:43 |
|
Some are things that are also dev resources, like code hosting (and an easy way for testers to download/install both latest-stable and bleeding-edge packages) and Trac (and procedures for reporting bugs, yay BugSquad!) |
12:43 |
marcopg |
oh I'm pretty sure we can get infra team to give us what we need :) |
12:44 |
mchua_ |
Some are things that are a little bit more test specific, like... *searches brain for list* |
12:44 |
marcopg |
mchua_: I guess my question is how do we want to go about this then |
12:44 |
mchua_ |
...a way for each Activity to keep track of its own test cases, test plans, and test results. And a way for the test community (SL's BugSquad, but also downstream projects) to search for and look at information about Activity test results across multiple Activities. |
12:45 |
marcopg |
i.e. how do we get to the infra team stuff we require |
12:45 |
mchua_ |
And a way of contacting maintainers so it's easier to escalate any issues. |
12:45 |
erikos |
hmm |
12:46 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: Yeah... if this sounds like the arrangement we want to have, I'm super-happy to work out the tickets that we need to file for the infrastructure team, but I'm not sure if this is the arrangement that you want, too. |
12:46 |
erikos |
the bug communication happen over trac |
12:46 |
marcopg |
mchua_: I like it. Can you think of any reason I'd not want it? :) |
12:46 |
mchua_ |
erikos: Yep. (Another reason to figure out the upstream/downstream magic trac plugin - chalk a +1 to my motivation-to-work-on-that list.) |
12:46 |
erikos |
testing plans - would be good to have upstream i agree |
12:47 |
|
mchua_: ;p |
12:47 |
marcopg |
erikos: and activity user/devel info |
12:47 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: more stuff to think about and maintain (as infrastructure), mostly. |
12:47 |
erikos |
marcopg: yeah we just need to enhance the Modules page |
12:47 |
marcopg |
well, activities are my nightmare anyway |
12:47 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: the setup costs are high. But I believe they'll be a well-placed investment (and eventually, a necessary one.) |
12:47 |
marcopg |
it's the biggest blocker for SL atm |
12:47 |
|
(ask caroline!) |
12:47 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: how so? |
12:48 |
marcopg |
it's a pain to get them into distributions because they are poorly maintained... |
12:48 |
erikos |
is interested as well |
12:48 |
marcopg |
it's not even clear how to contact the maintainers |
12:48 |
erikos |
oh yeah :/ |
12:48 |
marcopg |
maintainers don't know how to package stuff properly |
12:48 |
|
etc |
12:48 |
|
SL needs to start to work with activity maintainers |
12:48 |
|
at all levels |
12:49 |
|
packaging, testing, user documentation |
12:49 |
tomeu1 |
adds a Activities category to amo |
12:49 |
marcopg |
which doesn't mean we should do the work |
12:49 |
erikos |
ok i think - lets fix the glucose one first |
12:49 |
marcopg |
but provide the infra, the policies, the info that activity authors will use to do a better work |
12:49 |
erikos |
marcopg: we could do a sprint as well |
12:50 |
marcopg |
and I think the idea of upstreaming a bunch of activity related infra pieces, fits perfectly into this |
12:50 |
erikos |
once we have the basic infrastructure up |
12:50 |
mchua_ |
From the OLPC side, I'm going to try to push Activity testing resources upstream, and help the SL-hosted infrastructure get started. That'll help us concentrate on 8.2.1 and 9.1. |
12:50 |
|
Is someone going to run point on "Activity testing infrastructure?" |
12:50 |
marcopg |
"run point"? |
12:51 |
|
my english sucks |
12:51 |
mchua_ |
oh! sorry, "take as an ongoing action item" |
12:51 |
marcopg |
(great about the OLPC side) |
12:51 |
|
mchua_: I can take it |
12:51 |
|
I want to have some discussion about it in tomorrow dev meeting |
12:51 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: I'm not sure how common the phrase "be the point person for this" is |
12:51 |
marcopg |
mchua_: oh that I understand, it's the "run" thing which confused me ;) |
12:52 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: Thanks. I'm too hosed with CTW and 8.2.1 to really concentrate on Activity testing beyond our G1G1-2008 run right now, but can probably jump back in more helpfully in January. |
12:52 |
marcopg |
oh wait Activit testing infra :) |
12:52 |
|
damn, I took the action without knowing what it was exactly :P |
12:52 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: So yeah, please, please do ping me on that if you need a hand after... say... Jan. 5. I should have more of a life then. |
12:53 |
marcopg |
mchua_: OK, I will take it |
12:53 |
|
I suspect I'll have to bug you a lot, though :) |
12:53 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: (If you're too hosed and need to back out, that's okay. I understand. We /can/ come back to this right before FUDCON.) |
12:53 |
|
marcopg: That's not a problem at all - I just need someone else to take responsibility for the remembering and pushing-this-forward right now, because I'm staggering under too many things to keep track of right now. :) |
12:53 |
marcopg |
mchua_: I will do my best :) |
12:53 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: thanks, Marco. |
12:54 |
marcopg |
time running out! |
12:54 |
|
think mchua_ is trying to make me a 2 h meetin got make fun of me |
12:54 |
|
(can't type) |
12:54 |
mchua_ |
didn't know we set a time limit for this one :) |
12:54 |
|
I'll stay as long as it takes. |
12:54 |
marcopg |
ok it seem like we have a plan on activities, yay! |
12:54 |
mchua_ |
(...well, if it runs over 4 hours, I might have to get dinner, but... yeah.) |
12:55 |
marcopg |
wonder if mchua_ doesn't remember what I said about time of this meeting or she is just making fun of me |
12:55 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: yeah, I'm feeling *much* better about Activity testing now, thanks. And I'll make sure this gets communicated to the OLPC testing group and community. |
12:55 |
|
marcopg: oh, are we doing an hour? ah! sorry! |
12:55 |
|
has... a brain of great scatteredness today |
12:55 |
erikos |
marcopg: other points? |
12:55 |
marcopg |
mchua_: hehe I had said this one was going to be *exactly* one hour, thought you was kidding me ;) |
12:56 |
|
yeah OLPC |
12:56 |
|
leaves the floor to mchua_ about this |
12:56 |
|
we discussed a part of that already with activities I guess |
12:57 |
|
mchua_: I guess my question is... how do you think what we discussed in this two meetings will be in regard to OLPC |
12:57 |
|
mchua_: to OLPC org in particular |
12:58 |
|
mchua_: it's our first customer, so we have to care about it :) |
12:58 |
|
mchua_: kim in particular seemed to be worried about upstream/downstream separation of the bug tracker |
12:58 |
|
mchua_: do you think we are clear enough on how to coordinate, to be able to reassure them? |
12:59 |
|
mchua_: anything you would like us to do, to make OLPC life easier |
13:00 |
|
erikos: these OLPC people are evil, see now she runned away so that I can't close my meeting in time! |
13:00 |
mchua_ |
is here! really! just thinking... |
13:00 |
erikos |
:) |
13:00 |
marcopg |
mchua_: :)) |
13:00 |
|
mchua_: sleep helps to think faster :P |
13:00 |
mchua_ |
do you know what kim's concerns were, and/or would you like me to talk with her about those? |
13:00 |
|
marcopg: :P |
13:01 |
|
marcopg: ...says the person who was also up 'till 4. |
13:01 |
marcopg |
(you was up much later!) |
13:01 |
|
erikos: do you remember? |
13:01 |
|
we had a thread on techteam |
13:01 |
mchua_ |
As far as I'm concerned, I'm completely confident that we'll be able to coordinate upstream/downstream stuff in whatever way we need. |
13:01 |
|
But I'm only one individual. |
13:01 |
erikos |
marcopg: that was the past |
13:01 |
marcopg |
mchua_: perhaps the best would be to try and talk with Kim |
13:02 |
erikos |
if there are no current issues - lets just forget about it |
13:02 |
marcopg |
mchua_: now we have a better plan, we didn't when we first discussed it |
13:02 |
erikos |
right |
13:02 |
mchua_ |
And I certainly can't speak for all of OLPC, or even all of OLPC's QA team... I do currently liason between the OLPC test community and OLPC as part of my job responsibilities, so "officially" that's what I can speak as. |
13:02 |
marcopg |
I propose that we go ahead with plan. And if/when mchua_ has time she sync a bit OLPC management about it |
13:03 |
erikos |
sounds good to me |
13:03 |
mchua_ |
erikos, marcopg, I think you're right; we don't have any current issues, we just resolved the *huge* one of Activity testing to the satisfaction of everyone here, we just need to propagate that "yay!" feeling out to SL and OLPC communities (and OLPC-HQ.) |
13:03 |
cjb |
waves. |
13:03 |
mchua_ |
marcopg proposal + 1 |
13:03 |
erikos |
i have learned - you have to act first |
13:03 |
mchua_ |
ask forgiveness, not permissoin! |
13:03 |
cjb |
mchua_: that sounds right |
13:03 |
marcopg |
ok, fanstastic |
13:03 |
|
next point! |
13:03 |
mchua_ |
s/permissoin/permission |
13:03 |
marcopg |
4 mins left |
13:03 |
mchua_ |
waves at cjb |
13:03 |
erikos |
if someone opposes he will do it - if not you were not blocked |
13:03 |
mchua_ |
automation! |
13:03 |
marcopg |
hello cjb |
13:03 |
erikos |
hello cjb |
13:04 |
marcopg |
ok so my agenda for automation would be to figure out how we go forward |
13:04 |
mchua_ |
I have no bandwidth for it! cjb proposed we send a call to the community on what automation we need! |
13:04 |
marcopg |
which team/people start looking into it etc |
13:04 |
cjb |
hi all. don't let me distract your last four minutes. :) |
13:04 |
marcopg |
the sugarbot guy seem to be back have time, btw |
13:04 |
mchua_ |
on Sugar and Activity testing, I'd propose as a first step to have a sprint to try to spec out Things We Need To Build / Automate |
13:04 |
erikos |
yeah seen a blog post |
13:04 |
mchua_ |
I don't think the problem space is well defined (from the perspective of OLPC and of SL, both) |
13:04 |
|
w00t sugarbot! |
13:05 |
cjb |
I think the lowest hanging fruit is sending out mail saying "hey this guy wrote this sugarbot thing and none of us have had time to look at it but I bet it'd make a good framework for activity testing" |
13:05 |
marcopg |
mchua_: I second that proposal |
13:05 |
cjb |
and, you know, you offer to make someone the head of the automated testing team, and so on |
13:05 |
mchua_ |
as in, "I really don't know what we have/want/need re: automated Sugar/Activity testing for OLPC" - I have a reasonable idea, but it's likely to be out of date, and has huge holes. |
13:05 |
marcopg |
cjb: did someone actually look into sugarbot? |
13:06 |
mchua_ |
cjb: +1, though I'd like to find ways to fit that into a larger, more coherent "so, Activity testing... here's the big picture" thing. |
13:06 |
cjb |
marcopg: I think we've all seen the screencast, but never tried running it |
13:06 |
marcopg |
I only have a vague idea of what it does |
13:06 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: I did, a *veryveryvery* little bit. No patches. Just... I got it to run, once, on my desktop, which no longer has it installed (I wiped it and reinstalled ubuntu when it was getting flaky, months ago.) |
13:06 |
marcopg |
cjb: yeah was thinking more of code sanity :) |
13:06 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: so, practically, "no." |
13:07 |
|
I also recall the setup process to be sort of painful for me, but that's probably due to n00bness in large part. |
13:07 |
|
I'd have to do it again to really say. |
13:07 |
marcopg |
so time is expired and my mum will get angry if I don't go to dinner :( |
13:07 |
|
pizza! |
13:07 |
mchua_ |
(in other words, "I didn't document it, so it didn't happen.") |
13:07 |
marcopg |
what about if I take action to schedule an automation discussion in one of the next sugar development team meetings |
13:08 |
cjb |
mchua_: oh, you did more than us, at least :) |
13:08 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: and I'll take the parallel action item to schedule the same for the olpc internal test group, with a warning that that will probably happen in January |
13:08 |
marcopg |
and pester mchua_, cjb, the sugarbot guy and other interested people to participate |
13:08 |
|
mchua_: sounds good |
13:08 |
|
ok great! |
13:08 |
|
we are done I think |
13:08 |
mchua_ |
marcopg: agree |
13:09 |
marcopg |
thanks everyone for coming |
13:09 |
|
mchua_ in particular to make me much more clear about activities situation :) |
13:09 |
mchua_ |
marcopg, your meeting-fu increases. :) |
13:09 |
marcopg |
happy to see things moving there! |
13:09 |
mchua_ |
Likewise! |
13:09 |
marcopg |
mchua_: I will work, at some point! :) |
13:09 |
|
gah |
13:09 |
|
rock |
13:09 |
|
I need to learn to type, first |
13:09 |
|
see you! |
13:10 |
mchua_ |
waves, gets lunch |
14:23 |
_bernie |
#endmeeting |