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#sugar-meeting, 2020-04-01

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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17:59 walterbender hi everyone
17:59 I hope you are washing your hands :P
18:13 pikurasa all the time
18:27 ibiam has quit IRC
18:27 MrBIOS- <MrBIOS-!~aperez@c-73-170-93-123.hsd1.ca.comcast.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:00 walterbender is it meeting time?
19:04 MrBIOS- walterbender, 2000 UTC, one hour
19:04 walterbender OK. I am double booked at 2000 UTC but I will do my best to follow along.
19:07 MrBIOS- Quozl, I propose an agenda item to discuss the time/date of our future meetings, in light of the fact that we're all sheltered-in-place for who knows how long, probably 2+ months
19:08 walterbender, can you reach out to claudia to see if she will be able to/wants to join?
19:19 Claudia_ <Claudia_!~webchat@18.27.196.14> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:28 MrBIOS- welcome, Claudia. T-minus 32 minutes
19:36 Claudia_ yes
19:36 I don't want to forget... I am in the middle of an event online
19:43 pro-panda <pro-panda!9d31cd14@157.49.205.20> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:54 pro-panda ping
19:54 walterbender pong
19:54 pikurasa pong
19:56 pro-panda walterbender, pikurasa: Hi
19:56 MrBIOS- How is everyone's new dystopia?
19:56 ibiam <ibiam!~myirc@197.210.84.113> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:56 pikurasa adjusting
19:57 Claudia_ Hi everyone
19:57 safe for now... adjusting
19:58 samsongoddy <samsongoddy!~androirc@41.190.2.66> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:59 pro-panda I've been working from home for about 15 days now.
19:59 A country wide lockdown is in place in India till April 14 (as of now)
19:59 pikurasa if they ask us (in Boston) to stay completely shuttered inside I will really struggle to adjust.
19:59 I have heard from friends in India
20:00 ibiam Hi everyone.
20:00 pikurasa hi ibiam
20:00 MrBIOS- yes, I've also been sheltered-in-place for more than a couple of weeks, now.
20:00 ibiam Hi pikurasa.
20:01 pro-panda pikurasa: I left my house just once in the last two weeks, to get groceries ;-)
20:01 srevinsaju12 <srevinsaju12!uid407813@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hpjeawkanuoiltnj> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:02 pikurasa I have three humans in a 500 square foot apartment, one cat
20:02 walks are very helpful
20:03 pro-panda Ah, I see
20:03 pikurasa one of the humans is 2.5 years old
20:03 and needs to move
20:03 srevinsaju <srevinsaju!~manjaro-u@89.148.9.194> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:03 pro-panda Oh nice :-)
20:04 Quozl: ping
20:04 ibiam pikurasa: You can go for walks around the block right?
20:04 Claudia_ good to hear everyone is safe... take care
20:04 pikurasa ibiam: yes
20:04 Claudia_ hi walterbender
20:04 walterbender hi Claudia_
20:05 pro-panda Claudia_: Thanks, you too!
20:05 Claudia_ how are you? your fam?
20:05 MrBIOS- Quozl you with us yet?
20:05 walterbender everyone is well
20:05 Claudia_ your daughter and fam in my mind
20:06 walterbender my son-in-law, daughter-in-law, and daughter are in the front lines
20:06 pikurasa yes, walterbender, many family members on the front lines. Profound gratitude
20:06 walterbender a bit worrisome
20:06 Claudia_ gratitude to all of them
20:07 pro-panda walterbender: I hope they're well. It must be a difficult situation for them, more so than for any of us
20:07 ibiam Hi walterbender.
20:07 walterbender we need to ride out the storm
20:08 wash your hands :P
20:08 Claudia_ yes
20:08 pro-panda Yes ;-)
20:09 pikurasa I hope Quozl is doing okay. Usually he is so prompt...
20:10 Quozl go ahead, be with you in a tick.
20:10 Claudia_ ok
20:11 pro-panda #start-meeting
20:11 meeting Meeting started Wed Apr  1 20:11:17 2020 UTC. The chair is pro-panda. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:11 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
20:11 pro-panda #chair Quozl
20:11 meeting Current chairs: Quozl pro-panda
20:12 Quozl sorry for the delay, i was washing my hands.  ;-)  slept in, unusually overcast, sun did not wake as it normally would.
20:12 pikurasa Quozl: no worries
20:13 Where to start?
20:13 pro-panda has quit IRC
20:14 Quozl pikurasa: you.  any reports as your role as conservancy liaison?
20:14 pikurasa I have not made contact with SFC recently (I suppose I should reach out to them), but nothing to report as liason.
20:14 Quozl #topic reports, conservancy
20:14 pikurasa (nothing)
20:14 Quozl okay, that's easy.  reports from membership and elections committee next.
20:14 #topic reports, membership and elections committee
20:14 ibiam, you're liaison, anything to report?
20:15 ibiam Nothing to report.
20:15 Quozl okay.
20:15 #topic reports, ombudsman
20:16 ombudsman is not here, but i can tell you that bert unsubscribed this week and i said thanks and goodbye.
20:16 pro-panda <pro-panda!9d31cd14@157.49.205.20> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:16 Quozl #topic google code-in
20:16 walterbender we need an ombudsman
20:16 Quozl i've heard that the winners' trips were cancelled due to pandemic.
20:16 ibiam I thought we had one.
20:17 MrBIOS- walterbender what happend to our current/previous one?
20:17 Claudia_ I can imagine how it busy people are... I am extra busy with work and home
20:17 Quozl we have one.
20:17 #topic google summer of code
20:18 pikurasa walterbender: maybe you can report on GSoC?
20:18 Quozl we have plenty of proposals, some of them good.  i've not much to say on them except that it will be a lot of work for our mentors to review them, and that has to happen by 22nd.  with exponential growth on our minds, i'm inclined to leave things to the last moment, just like many of our students did.  ;-)  walter?
20:18 walterbender I have very good MB applicants
20:18 pikurasa gave his input on Music Blocks proposals
20:18 MrBIOS- Quozl it's also possible Google may defer that due date. Perhaps even likely.
20:19 walterbender I will review the others this weekend.
20:19 ibiam +1
20:19 Quozl MrBIOS-: yes, it is possible.  they have adjusted their schedule once already, so that means they are inclined to do it again if they have to.
20:19 ibiam I haven't been able to look at proposals as we've been having power surges here lately.
20:19 MrBIOS- Quozl do you think any of the issues around potential plagiarism is something that should disqualify anyone, at this point?
20:20 pikurasa "potential" ?
20:20 Quozl MrBIOS-: no.  the issue wased i felt was copying of my text in the project idea and links from it.
20:20 Claudia_ It may be good to engage kids more since they are at home
20:20 ibiam pikurasa: there was an issue in the mailing list.
20:20 Quozl s/wased/raised
20:20 pikurasa oh, I see
20:20 Claudia_ just to give perspective... 1.5B learners affected by Covid-19
20:20 pro-panda has quit IRC
20:21 pikurasa Claudia_: I agree
20:21 Claudia_ can we push a bit forward to offer some challenges of our own to encourage engagement?
20:21 MrBIOS- Claudia_, sure, any specific ideas?
20:21 Claudia_ walterbender has been doing some online facilitation... and we can make it more visible
20:22 pikurasa Quozl: I think we are on a new topic
20:23 pro-panda <pro-panda!9d31cd14@157.49.205.20> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:23 walterbender maybe we should look into using jitsi periodically for community meetups
20:23 Quozl the pandemic is an existential priority, so learning naturally slips down the list.  at my school, teachers have reported difficulty creating new lesson plans, and are slipping into making distracting activities.
20:23 (at my school, about 50% of students are present; those who have parents working in essential services, food production etc.)
20:24 pro-panda (Might get dropped off again, the client I'm using seems to be flaky)
20:24 Quozl #topic another topic yet to be defined
20:24 pikurasa Many US schools are completely shut down
20:24 I think this is an important topic: What to do with the present circumstances?
20:24 Claudia_ a few states have schools open
20:25 pikurasa Sugar Labs' role in today's society
20:25 MrBIOS- my wife is a first grade school teacher, it has been a huge adjustment for her, her teaching team (six other first grade teachers at her school) and their students. Schools in California are not expected to open up for in-person instruction for the remainder of the school year, though the formal order hasn't come down from the governor yet.
20:25 The state superintendent of schools has been talking about it, however.
20:25 Quozl well, you can guess my position; while i'm being paid, i'll keep working on sugar, activities, and olpc os.  otherwise i'll be off and leave you guys to it.  as for what sugar labs _can_ do, we can't release relevant activities fast enough at the rate we develop new stuff.
20:25 pikurasa Look, what the schools here are sending out is: "Just use Google Classroom for the time being"
20:26 (I think Sugar is better)
20:27 Quozl i had expected at least a hand washing activity in sugarizer.  ;-}  is lionel here?
20:27 MrBIOS- yes, there is immense pressure on teachers to "just use Google Classroom"
20:27 pikurasa Quozl: ok, but without relevancy, then we are really dead in the water...
20:27 MrBIOS- he's absent, go figure. I don't understand why he's wants to be on the board, honestly.
20:28 ibiam pikurasa: I agree, sugar is better.
20:28 pikurasa walterbender: suggested Jitsi meetups. I have been having success with it with my own teaching. We could use it to start something
20:28 MrBIOS- we all have personal and family responsibilities, but if you are unable to set aside the necessary time on a regular basis to attend, what's the point? Participation shouldn't be optional.
20:29 pikurasa sounds good to me, I assume it's free?
20:29 Claudia_ Quozl: I am sure there is a need for reviewing and providing some support for exisiting activities... so I wonder about producing new ones.. could we focus on ways to engage with existing ones for Covid-19 related...
20:29 pikurasa yes as in pizza and speech
20:29 MrBIOS- cool.
20:29 ibiam MrBIOS-: yeah it's open source.
20:29 Quozl i can report an uptick in expressions of interest for laptops, but the main cause of that is the sudden supply chain load, and how the factories have dried up.  olpc might get to sell some old stock, but making new laptops is costly and risky at the moment.
20:29 pikurasa (avoids "beer" cuz I work with kids so much)
20:29 Claudia_ BUT think about ways in which we can provide support long term
20:31 Quozl from my server logs, olpc laptops are not being used as much this month as they were last month, and i'm guessing the main effect is displacement of activity in learning systems and costs of power.
20:31 ibiam Claudia_: An activity that teaches about Covid-19 can be created but modifying an existing activity for Covid-19 wouldn't be great.
20:32 Quozl there are WHO maintained pages in several languages.  at minimum an activity could be a virus logo which redirects to that content for the local language setting or says go talk to your doctor.
20:32 Claudia_ more than activities, I want ideas that engage kids with creating and using activities
20:33 MrBIOS- We don't really have an easy way of distributing such an activity, though, do we?
20:33 Quozl it is risky to make an activity that focuses on pandemic, without being able to distribute updates quickly.
20:33 we could so easily mislead people with old information.
20:33 pikurasa I did not get the impression that is what Claudia_ was saying
20:35 Quozl okay, any suggestions on how to concentrate the discussion?
20:35 Claudia_ pikurasa: I was discouraging the idea of a new activity, but suggesting we focus on what we have...
20:36 I want to acknowledge though the need to provide support and maintenance of Activities in Sugar
20:36 MrBIOS- Claudia_ +1, it is something we have historically neglected, to the detriment of the greater project.
20:36 ibiam MrBIOS-: yes we don't, if we wanted to put the activity on aslo we'll have to write it in python2 and that's not a good idea. Github would be where it'll reside as we don't have a store for python3 activities yet.
20:37 Claudia_ walterbender: we can think about challenges you can share in social media and direct people to turtle art
20:37 Quozl Claudia_: yes, that's true.  i did write to everyone on the board in the past month with some ideas on that.  i didn't get any response from alex or devin though, so i guess i could ask; did they get my private mail?
20:37 Claudia_ blocks
20:38 MrBIOS- I personally would like to suggest we identify a core group of activities, (I propose the so-called Sucrose activities, most of which are already working) and a handful of others, and then determine a way to fix them in an expeditious manner. A month or two.
20:38 Claudia_ Quozl: I did... I responded
20:38 MrBIOS- Quozl what was the subject of the e-mail, I will search for it. I may have missed it.
20:39 pikurasa Quozl: I did not see it. Sorry. I will look again
20:39 Quozl Subject: Confidential: a contractor for Sugar maintenance
20:39 MrBIOS- yeah, I definitely did _not_ see that
20:40 Quozl okay, thanks.  i got busy and didn't keep pushing.  i do think we need to meet more frequently to get anything done, but not sure if middle of a pandemic is going to work for increasing our meeting rate.  ;-}
20:40 MrBIOS- just searched my inbox, nothing, can you forward it again? I will also PM you another e-mail address.
20:40 ibiam MrBIOS-: Are you suggesting we package the core group and handful of activities separately?
20:40 MrBIOS- I agree, we need to meet more frequently.
20:40 ibiam I was going to propose a motion for that today.
20:41 Meet frequently and also use jitsi for some of our meetings.
20:41 pikurasa If anyone wants to try Jitsi (after the meeting), I am in https://meet.jit.si/sugarlabs (recommend Chrome or Chromium)
20:41 Quozl proposed motion; meet every two weeks instead if every month.  (we can change out minds later).
20:42 MrBIOS- seconded
20:42 pikurasa +1
20:42 Quozl s/change out/change our/
20:42 pro-panda +1
20:42 MrBIOS- +1
20:42 ibiam +1
20:43 Claudia_ +1
20:43 walterbender :)
20:43 ibiam Proposed motion: we add jitsi as a mode of meeting that we decide when to use.
20:44 pikurasa Maybe every other meeting is Jitsi?
20:44 MrBIOS- videoconferencing may be problematic and error prone in the short term, given the stresses placed upon all ISPs, globally.
20:44 samsongoddy has quit IRC
20:44 MrBIOS- We can try that, pikurasa
20:44 Quozl agreed motion 2020-06; meet every two weeks instead of every month.
20:44 pikurasa Because we have such a culture of IRC, and its persist ency is nice (for voting)
20:44 samsongoddy <samsongoddy!~androirc@169.159.127.120> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:45 Claudia_ I never used jitsi, but I imagine it is easy to setup
20:45 Quozl let's try jitsi for the next meeting.  i don't think it needs a formal motion, but all in favour of trying it for that meeting?
20:45 ibiam MrBIOS-: that's why I said we can decide when we want to use it.
20:45 pikurasa +1
20:45 MrBIOS- Quozl I'm in favor
20:45 ibiam I'm in favour.
20:45 Claudia_ =1
20:45 +1
20:45 Quozl pro-panda: ?
20:46 pikurasa Claudia_: it is easy, but I do recommend trying it once before the meeting
20:46 pro-panda +1
20:46 pikurasa An FYI is, for mobile, you need their Jitsi Meet app (for iPhone or Android)
20:47 Quozl i'll install the app after we've closed this meeting, so i can test with others.
20:47 pikurasa (pointing a browser to the site does not work for mobile)
20:47 Claudia_ will do, pikurasa
20:47 pikurasa With a browser, no app is needed
20:47 MrBIOS- I would also like to propose we develop a policy for how to deal with chronically-absentee board members.
20:47 Quozl any other topics?
20:47 pikurasa but Chrome (or FF) needs to be up-to-date
20:47 MrBIOS- this has been a problem several times
20:47 not just during COVID
20:48 ibiam Quozl: Yes, a motion that was agreed on but wasn't implemented.
20:48 https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/[…]isions#2019-01-21
20:48 MrBIOS- anybody willing to second?
20:48 Quozl ibiam: you mean 2020-05?
20:48 pikurasa maybe a 1. yellow card, 2. red card, 3. your out system?
20:48 ibiam MrBIOS-: I agree, you have anything in mind?
20:48 Quozl: 2019-01-21
20:49 MrBIOS- ibiam, I'm less concerned with the exact mechanics at this point, but pikurasa's suggestion is as good as any.
20:50 Quozl we have in our governance some mechanism to deal with absent board members, but if you're talking about lionel, he's only missed this one this year, and we don't know if he had a good reason.  i think we need to give him the benefit of the doubt, and remember that an additional meeting will make this problem less of a problem or make things clearer.
20:51 MrBIOS- Quozl, he has also consistently been absent in the past, and I've pointed it out in writing, before I was a member of the oversight board.
20:51 Quozl we also have quite enough people on the board, and we can operate without him if we have to.
20:52 MrBIOS- Agreed, but obviously that's not ideal.
20:53 Claudia_ he has opinions...
20:53 ibiam Is anyone going to say anything about the topic I just brought up?
20:53 MrBIOS- ibiam, "Proposed motion: we add jitsi as a mode of meeting that we decide when to use."? this, or something else?
20:54 Quozl ibiam: MrBIOS- was slightly first with a real motion, sorry.  MrBIOS-: finished with the topic yet?
20:54 ibiam MrBIOS-: This motion that was agreed on but wasn't implemented.
20:54 (ibiam) https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/[…]isions#2019-01-21
20:55 Claudia_ money for samsom?
20:55 * Samson
20:55 ibiam Quozl: Yeah just noticed.
20:55 Quozl ibiam: do you mean motion 2019-04?
20:55 ibiam Claudia_: yes, the motion was agreed on but Samson says he hasn't received anything.
20:56 Quozl: No I mean, 2019-01-21.
20:56 There's a link above.
20:56 Quozl ibiam: there's no such motion number.  what is the motion number on that date?
20:57 pikurasa Not paid?
20:57 MrBIOS- That was due to internal politics at SFC, if memory serves, are you proposing we reimburse Samson via funds from Sugar Labs, Inc.?
20:57 Quozl https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/[…]isions#2019-01-21
20:57 the hyperlink is supposed to take you to the date in question
20:58 Claudia_ anything we can do?
20:58 Quozl MrBIOS-: that's why i'm asking if it is motion 2019-04, 'cause that's the only one i can see.
20:58 MrBIOS- At least in Firefox, it doesn't seem to though. Broken anchor.
20:58 Quozl, I'll copy-paste it here:      pay $890 of unmet costs for trip by Samson Goddy to London for Sustain Summit, Mozfest, and meetings with Scratch and Google Open Source team.
20:58 that was our agreed motion
20:58 Quozl yes, that's motion 2019-04, it says so just before it, on the assumption that this is motion, this became ticket #3530 with the conservancy.
20:59 ibiam pikurasa: yes not paid.
20:59 MrBIOS- correct, I believe they wouldn't pay it because it violated their travel policies?
21:00 Quozl okay, i've reviewed the discussion with conservancy.  the request was denied because it was outside the rules, and the ticket was closed.  samson was notified.
21:00 ibiam MrBIOS-: The board can decide if they want to pay him via funds from Sugar Labs Inc.
21:00 I'm just learning the reason why the request was denied.
21:01 pikurasa ibiam: It is beyond the 90 days
21:01 ibiam Yes it is.
21:01 pikurasa (is what I hear from Quozl)
21:01 Quozl the ticket was handled by bradley m. kuhn.
21:02 last activity on the ticket was feb 14.
21:02 srevinsaju has quit IRC
21:02 MrBIOS- did we lose pro-panda?
21:03 Quozl pro-panda: ?
21:04 MrBIOS- ibiam we would need to understand the legal implications of paying out money for an event that preceeded the creation of the entity that is paying it out. That's my only concern, but it's a big one. I'm otherwise supportive of the proposal, in theory.
21:04 Quozl devin and i have been discussin this via jitsi just now, as prior and current conservancy liaisons.
21:04 MrBIOS- Sugar Labs, Inc. didn't exist as an entity prior to June of 2019.
21:05 pikurasa There are a lot of implications to this that are kind of out of our control
21:05 Quozl the new org can't go against conservancy policy without risking the remainder of the funds being held.
21:05 pro-panda has quit IRC
21:06 MrBIOS- That is a significant concern, as well.
21:06 pikurasa on top of that, we would need to ask an accountant about a reimbursement for travel done so long ago (and before the org started)
21:06 Quozl at heart the problem was that the board, in late 2019 before i joined it, failed to respond to samson, and samson failed to follow up within the 90-day time frame that he was aware of.
21:07 Claudia_ This is such a bad time for trying to get it done... in the middle of the crisis
21:09 MrBIOS- I agree, but a board member made a motion, and we don't get to choose. Is there room for a creative solution here, where perhaps we offer a ~$900 "grant" to Samson for ...something that's not travel?
21:09 it's a sticky wicket.
21:09 pikurasa I will ask the accountant, that is what I can do/
21:09 no guarantees
21:10 ibiam pikurasa: thanks.
21:10 MrBIOS- +1 I think that's all we can do.
21:10 Quozl any other business for the meeting?  we are over time.
21:10 pikurasa next meeting time
21:10 Quozl i propose 15th as next meeting.
21:10 same time of day.
21:10 pikurasa sure
21:10 MrBIOS- works for me
21:10 pikurasa second
21:10 ibiam +1.
21:11 Quozl we lost rahul.
21:11 Claudia_: ?
21:11 ibiam Quozl: send you a PM.
21:11 Sent.
21:11 MrBIOS- Quozl probably network congestion related. His IP is not responsive to ping
21:12 Claudia_ +1
21:12 Quozl okay, agreed.
21:12 i propose we close the meeting now.
21:12 pikurasa second
21:12 I will be on https://meet.jit.si/sugarlabs for about 5-10 more minutes if anyone wants to join
21:12 MrBIOS- +1
21:12 Claudia_ sorry.. I entered a different meeting now
21:12 +1
21:13 ibiam +1.
21:13 Quozl #endmeeting
21:14 meeting Meeting ended Wed Apr  1 21:13:58 2020 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
21:14 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-01T20:11:17.html
21:14 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]20-04-01T20:11:17
21:14 walterbender thanks everyone
21:15 Claudia_ thanks, walterbender
21:16 pikurasa thank you
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22:18 dzho_ is now known as dzho
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