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#sugar-meeting, 2019-12-04

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19:49 Quozl .
19:54 #startmeeting
19:54 meeting Meeting started Wed Dec  4 19:54:20 2019 UTC. The chair is Quozl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:54 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
19:54 samsongoddy Hello
19:54 Quozl #topic waiting for quorum and the hour
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19:55 Quozl samsongoddy: llaske: welcome.
19:55 llaske Hi all
19:55 walterbender hi all
19:55 Quozl quorum reached, not waiting for the hour.
19:55 now waiting, sorry.
19:56 pikurasa <pikurasa!~devin@fsf/member/pikurasa> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:56 pikurasa hi
19:57 Quozl pikurasa: welcome, we wait for the hour.  we also have llaske, samsongoddy, and walterbender.
20:00 MrBIOS <MrBIOS!~aperez@> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:00 MrBIOS Quozl: ACK :)
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20:00 Quozl Claudia_: welcome.
20:00 We have everyone, let's begin.  First ...
20:00 Claudia_ Hello everyoneb
20:00 Quozl #topic sugarlabs.org renewal
20:01 Situation is press coverage of the sale of the .org registrar and _likely_ price rises.
20:01 We can't be sure the price will rise, but the costs are small, and the question is really do we expect to last another ten years.  Opinions?
20:02 MrBIOS right, but there’s no downside to renewing for a long time, other than the actual cost of doing so right now
20:02 pikurasa yes, I expect to last 10 years
20:02 MrBIOS we’ve been around for ten years, another ten seems plausible :)
20:02 llaske I don't think there is a risk of huge rise
20:02 walterbender me too
20:02 (on both counts)
20:02 MrBIOS llaske: time will tell, private equity firms are notoriously greedy
20:02 pikurasa The total price (now) is prob 120, correct?
20:02 Quozl Thanks all.  MrBIOS: have you a revised motion given the mailing list discussion and this discussion?
20:03 Claudia_ I will seat in the background
20:03 MrBIOS I do not, one second
20:03 Claudia_ I am in a meeting until 3:30 pm
20:03 llaske MrBIOS: yes but even +50% will be manageable for us
20:03 walterbender we might change focus over time... but I think the core problems we are facing will be around in ten years
20:03 llaske Tools could change but I'm agree that problems will be there
20:04 MrBIOS pikurasa: it depends on which registrar SFC uses, the exact price/cost
20:05 Quozl It would seem we are in agreement to organise a renewal for ten years; can I have a motion?
20:05 pikurasa MrBIOS: please give your revised motion
20:05 MrBIOS I move that we ask SFC to renew sugarlabs.org for as many years as $120 will get us.
20:05 pikurasa I am happy to ask SFC
20:06 Quozl Votes?
20:06 pikurasa I liked this better: I propose that we immediately direct SFC to renew sugarlabs.org for the
20:06 maximum allowable duration of ten years, and use the funds they have
20:06 allocated for SugarLabs to do so.
20:06 Claudia_ how much is it?
20:06 pikurasa ...as I usually provide a link when I communicate with SFC
20:06 Quozl SFC tend to resist motions that don't have numbers.
20:07 pikurasa Put "up to $200"
20:07 Quozl Ok.
20:07 MrBIOS sugarlabs.org is registered through May 2020 as of right now, so this would have to happen in the next few months anyways
20:07 Quozl Seconding of amended motion?
20:07 pikurasa I propose that we immediately direct SFC to renew sugarlabs.org for the maximum allowable duration of ten years, and use the funds--up to $200--they have allocated for SugarLabs to do so.
20:07 MrBIOS seconded.
20:07 Quozl Votes?
20:07 walterbender +1
20:07 samsongoddy +1
20:07 llaske +1
20:07 Quozl +1
20:08 Claudia_: ?
20:08 pikurasa assumes we are voting on the (03:07:20 PM) amended motion
20:08 Quozl pikurasa: me too.
20:08 pikurasa Great. Thanks.
20:08 Quozl Carried.  Claudia_ must be busy.  Next ...
20:08 #topic reports from project representative
20:09 pikurasa: anything to report regarding SFC?
20:09 (i'm following standing agenda per wiki).
20:09 pikurasa Quozl: Not much. I asked them to complete the two reimbursements that they began (per my "please weigh in" email to SLOBS)
20:10 Quozl pikurasa: thanks.  Next ...
20:10 #topic reports from membership and elections committee
20:10 walterbender rahul has heard nothing from them... ut not unexpected
20:10 Quozl I asked for their report on 28th November, but there was no answer.
20:10 pikurasa walterbender: I can call Karen...
20:10 walterbender samsongoddy, ???
20:10 Claudia_ +1
20:10 walterbender pikurasa, sure
20:10 pikurasa Claudia_: thank you
20:10 Quozl In particular I asked for plans for this year's election, changes to the list of members this year, and what the committee has done since last report.
20:11 I propose the committee is not functioning and the board may have to organise the election.
20:11 samsongoddy Ibiam is more in-charge
20:11 MrBIOS regardless, we need an answer
20:11 Quozl My mail was to members@sugarlabs.org, and the alias was there last I checked.
20:12 walterbender can we designate samsongoddy to try to get things moving as the rep from SLOB?
20:12 samsongoddy As regards on the election, i am unsure how it will be organised now with the new developement
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20:12 samsongoddy I am willing to, walterbender.
20:12 MrBIOS the same as always, until/unless we decide to change it.
20:12 Quozl samsongoddy: the old organisation must continue to exist in full until it is terminated, to do so otherwise would be a breach of conditions.
20:12 pikurasa hi ibiam
20:13 walterbender ibiam, please read the log
20:13 Quozl MrBIOS: presumably the new organisation will decide on membership conditions and list of members?
20:13 pikurasa we are talking about elections
20:13 MrBIOS yes, at some future point, presumably significantly further down the road than we are now
20:13 Quozl MrBIOS: thanks.
20:13 ibiam Hi pikurasa, walterbender: yeah, on it.
20:14 Quozl I'm not worried about having a later election, but we are obliged to have one each year.
20:14 walterbender yes...
20:14 Claudia_ It would be good to think about the board for a new organization...
20:14 no?
20:14 walterbender and I see no reason to overhaul the process
20:15 Quozl I propose we expect a report for next month's meeting, and we may have had an election by then, who knows?
20:15 pikurasa walterbender: I agree, it would be simpler to keep things as they are as much as possible
20:16 walterbender Quozl, I think we should ask ibiam to come up with a plan and report by email by the 15th
20:16 not such a big lift
20:16 Quozl Motion: Samson Goddy to be the board liaison for the Membership and Elections Committee.
20:16 walterbender I think he already is... but seconded
20:16 Quozl walterbender: I agree, but we can just let that happen after telling them.
20:16 walterbender: thanks.  wiki out of date, will fix after this motion.
20:17 samsongoddy: you okay bing the board's contact point for the committee?
20:17 s/bing/being
20:17 samsongoddy Yes
20:17 MrBIOS +1
20:18 Quozl llaske: Claudia_: pikurasa: ? votes.  (next is project teams, e.g. gci)
20:18 pikurasa +1
20:18 llaske +1
20:18 Claudia_ +1
20:18 MrBIOS I have one proposed topic for discussion afterwards, FOSDEM
20:18 Quozl Thanks.  Carried.  ...
20:18 MrBIOS: noted.
20:18 #topic project teams reports, google code-in
20:18 llaske Quozl: you didn't vote?
20:19 Quozl llaske: i made the motion, i thought it was kinda assumed.
20:19 walterbender: please report on gci?
20:20 walterbender 164 students partipating so far
20:20 100+ tasks completed
20:20 we are starting to get some good work..
20:20 significant Music Blocks commits
20:20 Python3 tasks in progress
20:20 etc.
20:21 some obvious talent emerging
20:21 llaske Already few issues fixed in Sugarizer
20:21 walterbender FWIW, it is really nice to have Quozl as a mentor this year
20:21 makes it much easier to coordinate work on Sugar
20:21 MrBIOS agreed
20:21 Quozl from my perspective, up until 12 hours ago, we had no significant work on sugar, but lots of noise and conflicting expectations.  i tend to be more interested in merged pull requests than experiments.  ;-)
20:22 walterbender Quozl, at least 3 Python 3 tasks are active
20:22 and it is just Day 3
20:22 Quozl i'm hoping it will give a return on investment, and this will be the test case for my continued involvement.
20:22 Claudia_ has quit IRC
20:22 Quozl i note claudia has pinged out.
20:22 llaske Yes we have lot of "Make a pull request"  tasks. Is it really usefull ?
20:22 walterbender llaske, I think so
20:22 Quozl llaske: i don't think so.
20:23 MrBIOS yes, I agree, it’s really not ideal to have people who have _literally never used Sugar before_ trying to bumble through tasks.  We need to do a better job of making it clear we expect them to have at least used/tried it before they go do GCI work for us.
20:23 Quozl llaske: but then i think the "make a logo we will ignore" is also likewise unwise.
20:23 walterbender there I agree
20:23 ibiam I agree with walterbender, it's just 3 days and with time we'll get good contributions.
20:23 Quozl llaske: we seem to have a lot of mentors who want to push the students to tune their logos, but to what end i don't know ... power trip, perhaps.
20:23 llaske "Make a t-shirt" is not interesting too
20:23 walterbender the Git task impresses our dev process.
20:24 the gratuitous and hard to evaluate design tasks do little for anyone
20:24 stays away from those tasks
20:24 Quozl walterbender: graphic design, you mean?  i don't know why the prefix keeps being dropped; perhaps it is an australian language thing.
20:24 llaske The first basic task for Sugarizer is "Complete the development tutorial", I think we should have the equivalent for Sugar instead of just "Make a pull request"
20:24 Quozl i'm worried that by staying away from tasks we disagree with, we mislead the students.
20:25 MrBIOS llaske: +1
20:25 ibiam MrBIOS: python3 porting tasks makes it clear what's required of them before taking on the task.
20:25 walterbender Quozl, I spend my time trying to argue with the mentors...
20:25 llaske MrBIOS: Is it possible to reborn the Sugar development tutorial?
20:26 MrBIOS llaske: I don’t know, as I’m not sure I’ve seen it, but if you can find a link, I would like to review it
20:26 pikurasa Quozl: We did have one student, one year, really help out and get a lot out of design: https://musicblocks.net/2017/0[…]for-music-blocks/
20:26 llaske We have also few mentors with 0 task...
20:26 Quozl we also have lots of mentors not on irc.
20:26 i'd like to drop mentors who don't even turn up.
20:27 pikurasa It is a pretty striking before/after, and the student seems proud of the work she did (she wrote the blogpost)
20:27 MrBIOS how many mentors do we have, total?
20:27 and how many haven’t “shown up”?
20:27 walterbender: ?
20:27 walterbender 25+
20:27 pikurasa Quozl: at what point do we drop them? Sometimes we do not know which ones will turn out that way...
20:27 ibiam walterbender: Quozl's idea seems feasible if after the 3rd week a mentors task interaction count is below a number.
20:27 walterbender we can remove the ones who have not interacted at the end of the week
20:27 pikurasa By the end of the 2nd week?
20:28 Quozl i'd say it is up to walter, and also ibiam, as org admins.
20:28 pikurasa Yes, I agree that mentors who are not interacting at all by the 2-3 week should be dropped.
20:28 Quozl i don't think the board should do anything other than make sure walter and ibiam can do what they need.  the feedback is the thing they need.
20:29 walterbender +1
20:29 samsongoddy +1 too
20:29 MrBIOS +1
20:29 Quozl 'cause the situation is fluid.
20:29 moving on shortly.
20:29 walterbender fwiw, 33% of the mentors have not yet interacted with any tasks
20:29 Quozl can't imagine what they are mentors for then.  ;-}
20:29 walterbender one mentor has interacted with 65 tasks :)
20:29 Quozl #topic FOSDEM
20:30 ibiam MrBIOS: So far 20+ mentors have a task interaction count below 10.
20:30 walterbender not sure have a propsoal for FOSDEM yet
20:30 MrBIOS I was contacted by Martin Abente Lahaye back on November 27th, and asked if I would be attending FOSDEM in Brussels. He indicated that the CEO of PINE64 was interested in meeting up with Sugar Labs, and that he would be there.
20:30 Quozl As I understand it, some of our members plan to attend FOSDEM, so there are opportunities.
20:30 MrBIOS: "he" is CEO or Martin?
20:30 samsongoddy I might be in Belgium
20:30 MrBIOS CEO
20:31 Quozl MrBIOS: thanks.
20:31 samsongoddy Not Might I will, lol
20:31 MrBIOS FOSDEM is Feb 2
20:32 I have already booked travel, airfare and a cheap AirBnB, and would appreciate it if someone would move to support reimbursement of my travel expenses, which should be pretty minimal. My flight was cheap.
20:32 but if not, I understand. Also, apparently we’re going to have a table there, but it was news to me that that was something that had been asked for, and I have no idea who facilitated it
20:32 samsongoddy I am going to be attending Sustain Summit January will join MrBIOS as we did as Pycon US
20:32 Quozl I'd say it is too late under SFC practices to get travel organised by them.  So I don't think we can start on a motion binding SFC to pay.
20:33 pikurasa MrBIOS: more info... and a number, please
20:33 "cheap" is not a number
20:33 MrBIOS we can’t ask SFC to pay for this.
20:33 under $1,200
20:33 pikurasa MrBIOS: so "up to $1200"
20:33 MrBIOS sure, I can cover anything over that myself if necessary
20:34 pikurasa MrBIOS: and what is the expected outcome for SLI?
20:34 Quozl Who asked for a table and why was the board unaware?
20:34 pikurasa (just gotta' ask these questions)
20:34 samsongoddy Vipul did apply for a stand
20:34 walterbender it was some community members
20:34 MrBIOS samsongoddy: it would have been nice if they would have chosen to share that info :)
20:34 Quozl Right.  Worth encouraging Vipul to coordinate with the board in future.  Or at least tell us.
20:34 pikurasa Quozl: When we are at the end of our list, I do have one topic to bring up for discussion regarding our 1023. Please add to the list.
20:35 Quozl pikurasa: noted.
20:35 MrBIOS of course. the expected outcome is additional developer awareness, attempts at recruiting new developers, and to engage with PINE64 folks to see if they have any interest in Sugar as a learning platform.
20:35 FOSDEM is a free conference, there is no registration. You just show up.
20:36 Quozl By Pine64 you mean Pine Microsystems, Inc?
20:36 MrBIOS Quozl: correct
20:37 pikurasa The event samsongoddy is attending is separate, correct?
20:37 MrBIOS I intend to bring a couple of XO’s and a low end $200 machine to demo Sugar on.
20:37 pikurasa: I don’t know.
20:37 samsongoddy Yes, the reason I am going to Belgium is for sustain summit. They will be covering my cost, but I am not sure how I can get extra days for FOSSDEM
20:38 Quozl Martin tweeted two hours ago about Pinebook.
20:38 samsongoddy MrBIOS, how big is the Airbnb?
20:38 llaske MrBIOS: I thought to this tutorial: https://archive.flossmanuals.n[…]ar-activities.pdf
20:38 pikurasa MrBIOS: You already purchased your ticket, correct?
20:39 Quozl llaske: it's out of date, doesn't work properly, and don't know how to fix it except by copy and paste.  anyone heard from the author?
20:39 MrBIOS pikurasa: correct, I will be going regardless, because I think it’s in the interest of SLI to do so, even if nobody else does. I believe the airfare was under $700 round trip
20:39 Quozl: he’s proposing we revise it, not use it as-is
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20:40 llaske Quozl: No I don't the manual exist also in HTML here: http://write.flossmanuals.net/[…]ies/introduction/
20:40 MrBIOS pikurasa: $536.53 round trip, via Aer Lingus.
20:41 Quozl Thanks all.  Are we ready to have a motion regarding FOSDEM travel?
20:42 pikurasa As the appointed CFO, I would like to streamline the process for reimbursements, but--as I am responsible for making sure the org does not tank--I ask that you please do not pay for stuff before proposing for a reimbursement.
20:42 MrBIOS as a general rule, I completely agree. You can vote no. I’ve chosen to go either way.
20:43 pikurasa @others, please advise, does this sound like it is worth the expenditure? I have never attended FOSSDEM, so I have no way to judge.
20:43 Quozl I agree, prepayment and asking for reimbursement also creates a decision bias for the board.
20:43 walterbender That said, I think we need to get out into the world...
20:43 samsongoddy Agreed too
20:44 walterbender and the cost is not exorbitant.
20:44 MrBIOS I’ve not been to FOSDEM, however it is one of the largest gatherings on earth of FLOSS folks.
20:44 samsongoddy It is the largest
20:44 Quozl pikurasa: i can't see enough prior return on investment for funding travel for any of the members to conferences, so i'm no longer in favour of further conferences.
20:45 llaske Quozl: +1
20:45 Quozl ... but costs for branded give-away materials might be okay.
20:46 Claudia_ walterbender: what are other ways to get out into the world?
20:46 pikurasa I also would appreciate a more holistic proposal -- not just a bit here and there -- when asking for a reimbursement. MrBIOS, can you please concatenate all you have said here from the dollar amount to the deliverables?
20:46 Quozl ... sticker tables are common, and a lot of fun.
20:47 pikurasa I motion that MrBIOS send a detailed proposal via email
20:47 MrBIOS I’m asking for reimbursement of precisely two things, travel and lodging. I intend to cover everything else on my own dime. For those of you who don’t see value in being present, I’m not sure what to tell you.
20:47 maybe if you went yourself you might have a different perspective
20:48 I’m fine with no compensation
20:48 Quozl I do go to linux.conf.au, and it is personally valuable, but organisational value usually depends on presenting long form talks, not lightning talks or marketplace tables.
20:49 ibiam I agree with MrBIOS there's value as they're people we can talk with and get to spread sugar.
20:49 Pine64 folks are a good instance.
20:49 walterbender we could try to be opportunisitic and meet up with other learning groups
20:49 samsongoddy lightning talks got me money to host conference, so it depends who is talking
20:49 walterbender not leave it to chance.
20:49 MrBIOS Quozl: at PyCon, they had self-assignable spaces where you could reserve an hour in a given room to discuss any chosen topic. We had several for Sugar.
20:49 Quozl And unfortunately, historically, we don't seem to have much buy-in after a conference.  Who of you joined Sugar Labs after hearing about it at a conference?
20:50 MrBIOS I believe the same concept exists at FOSDEM.
20:50 walterbender I'm less interested in who joins than who uses
20:50 pikurasa MrBIOS: Please send a more comprehensive proposal, and give us some time to digest this.
20:50 walterbender Music Blocks in Japan is from a conference interaction
20:50 Quozl At linux.conf.au in January there's an education miniconf that I could talk at, but I don't really have enough to say.  I maintained a lot of old Python code.  ;-)
20:50 MrBIOS walterbender: yep. Also, frankly, it gives us an opportunity to tell the world “WE’RE NOT DEAD”
20:51 it’s hard work, not some cosy vacation
20:51 pikurasa: sure thing, will do
20:51 Claudia_ I think it is important to attend some of the conferences... I don`t know if we have a list of them for a big picture
20:51 llaske samsongoddy: you've got a nice business to be paid to attend conference to host conference where you could be paid to attend to other conferences :-)
20:51 ibiam Quozl: focusing on sugar as an educational tool than the old python code base would be great.
20:52 MrBIOS That brings up another issue, which is unresponsiveness to SLOBS@ e-mails on the part of various board members
20:52 This concerns me, does it concern anyone else?
20:52 samsongoddy llaske, I don't understand what you just said
20:53 Quozl #topic 1023
20:53 pikurasa: go ahead on 1023?
20:53 MrBIOS llaske: you’re out of line with that comment, really.
20:53 pikurasa Quozl: yes..
20:53 Quozl MrBIOS: i see it as in jest.
20:53 llaske MrBIOS: Apologize. Just kidding.
20:54 pikurasa I just have one question -- that we never really asked, but needs to be asked: What compensation -- if any -- for the officers of SLI?
20:54 walterbender wants no compensation
20:54 pikurasa Right now, I just have all zeros, but I made some assumptions
20:55 as historically no one has taken compensation
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20:55 Quozl My opinion is that the organisation will not be able to afford compensation given the known income streams at this time.  But I'm not on SLI board, so all I can do is give my opinion.  No compensation also means you get the dregs of remaining time when the officer is busy with other things.
20:56 pikurasa Quozl: well said
20:56 MrBIOS Agreed.
20:56 pikurasa BTW, my student just showed up and I need to leave soon
20:57 walterbender any action needed re the IRS form?
20:57 Quozl pikurasa: okay, the meeting was forecast to end very shortly.
20:57 pikurasa: do we need a motion from the SLI board?
20:57 pikurasa No, but please think about it.
20:57 Right now, I have all zeros.
20:57 Either way, I will be asking for a budget to work with an accountant
20:58 As I do not want to pretend I am an accountant
20:58 walterbender +1
20:58 pikurasa when SLI has to send in papers to the IRS
20:58 Quozl Okay, thanks all, I move that we close the meeting.
20:58 pikurasa +1
20:58 MrBIOS seconded
20:58 walterbender seconded
20:58 pikurasa Thanks!
20:58 samsongoddy +1
20:58 walterbender +1
20:58 llaske +1
20:58 pikurasa has quit IRC
20:58 walterbender thanks everyone
20:58 Claudia_ +1
20:58 Quozl #endmeeting
20:59 meeting Meeting ended Wed Dec  4 20:58:59 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
20:59 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-04T19:54:20.html
20:59 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]19-12-04T19:54:20
20:59 Quozl MrBIOS: regarding non-response, it's what this meeting is to cover for.
20:59 MrBIOS but again, I really would like everyone to consider whether or not it’s okay to ignore motions to slobs@ for weeks
20:59 FreddieNGCI before people depart commenting on the logos mentioned earlier I am wondering if we should reduce the instance count?
20:59 MrBIOS agreed, we have standing meetings for a reason, but things come up between them
20:59 Quozl MrBIOS: technically, by our agreed procedure, the motion expires.
20:59 FreddieNGCI: yes, i think so.
21:00 MrBIOS I understand the process, I just think it’s irresponsible.
21:00 Quozl MrBIOS: and if a motion expires it means there is not sufficient interest.
21:00 MrBIOS: it's like raising a motion here and nobody saying anything, which has happened.
21:00 MrBIOS yeah, well, I think that’s rude :)
21:00 Quozl MrBIOS: board members have a right to be silent, even if it is rude.
21:01 MrBIOS of course they do.
21:01 FreddieNGCI Quozl the current ones in my list I am not too sure what to say as I do not think many of them are at the required standard.
21:01 Quozl FreddieNGCI: to evaluate standard on the ones i approved, i used the task description only, not a "would we use this on sugarlabs.org".
21:02 FreddieNGCI: so i approved a few logos that were truly pathetic by my own or sugarlabs standards.
21:02 walterbender FreddieNGCI, there is a lot of interest in the logos by some members of the community so I defer even though I don't have much interest in them. But we need to keep high standards for execution of these designs
21:02 Quozl walterbender: as long as those high standards are quantifiable in the task description.
21:03 walterbender my concern is that the design tasks seem to sit unreviewed for long periods, which is not fair to the students.
21:03 FreddieNGCI That is a good way of doing it quozl. I will follow that strategy. I just had a look at the task instance and we have 18 claims.
21:03 Quozl walterbender: are any not reviewed in 36 hours?
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21:03 MrBIOS walterbender: I’m happy to assist in reviewing design tasks, but I may not be particularly forgiving
21:03 that said, I will do my best to provide constructive feedback
21:04 walterbender I am hoping Perrie, who just finished up her exams, will have time
21:04 she is qualified to give feedback
21:04 Quozl MrBIOS: haven't seen you on the gci site as a mentor; it's all closed, are you there?
21:04 MrBIOS Quozl: I have an account, yes.
21:04 Quozl walterbender: what is perrie's qualification?  she's done no graphic design for sugar as far as i know, and we do need some here and there.
21:05 walterbender she has done some graphic design work for Music Blocks and lots of other projects. She had proposed changes to Sugar but not ever gotten concensus around her changes
21:07 eohomegrownapps walterbender: regarding mentorship, I'm going to be quite busy over the next week or so with university interviews / olympiads so I won't be able to do much until then - apologies for this
21:07 but I should have more time thereafter
21:08 FreddieNGCI walterbender I just don't feel many of the logos really warrant an approval in my honest opinion as it's great they back it up but some are simply some text coloured and manipulated. It is quite hard to suggest a complete redesign unless its very obvious they have put little work in.
21:08 On a positive note, there has been some good work with Sugarizer :)
21:09 walterbender then they should not be approved
21:09 and there has been some solid work on Music Blocks too
21:09 the bottom line is there is always some noise but the signal comes through pretty clearly
21:09 and the noise is not harmful
21:10 Quozl then i think the task description is unfair, as it does not clearly suggest that people need graphic design skills.
21:10 MrBIOS and it’s reasonable to expect the noise to peak in the beginning ,when the clue-factor is particularly low :)
21:10 FreddieNGCI Yes we are only 2 days in :)
21:10 Quozl people without graphic design skills often think they can make a good logo.
21:10 MrBIOS Quozl: agreed, it’s a problem :P
21:10 Quozl so add a rider to the task description.
21:11 up the front.
21:11 "for students who do a commercial art subject at school", for instance.
21:12 otherwise we'll keep having stuff that is crap.
21:13 MrBIOS I agree that for the graphic design tasks, there should be some requirement for experience, but frankly, for pre-college folks, there aren’t really “commercial art subject” classes.
21:13 so you need to keep in mind the capabilities of the applicants.
21:13 and their ages.
21:14 Quozl how about "you have done an art elective".
21:14 MrBIOS exactly
21:14 something age appropriate. “I have never attempted to create a logo before” isn’t what we want
21:15 Quozl "i've seen some logos" neither.
21:15 FreddieNGCI I agree. Although we now only have 8 instances remaining and 14 students currently working. Out of all of them only 4 have been approved and a lot are just sending back minor redesigns of their current logo which isn't really the point.
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