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| 19:49 | Quozl | . |
| 19:54 | #startmeeting | |
| 19:54 | meeting | Meeting started Wed Dec 4 19:54:20 2019 UTC. The chair is Quozl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 19:54 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting | |
| 19:54 | samsongoddy | Hello |
| 19:54 | Quozl | #topic waiting for quorum and the hour |
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| 19:55 | Quozl | samsongoddy: llaske: welcome. |
| 19:55 | llaske | Hi all |
| 19:55 | walterbender | hi all |
| 19:55 | Quozl | quorum reached, not waiting for the hour. |
| 19:55 | now waiting, sorry. | |
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| 19:56 | pikurasa | hi |
| 19:57 | Quozl | pikurasa: welcome, we wait for the hour. we also have llaske, samsongoddy, and walterbender. |
| 20:00 | MrBIOS <MrBIOS!~aperez216.52.21.30> has joined #sugar-meeting |
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| 20:00 | MrBIOS | Quozl: ACK :) |
| 20:00 | Claudia_ <Claudia_!~webchat18.27.196.14> has joined #sugar-meeting |
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| 20:00 | Quozl | Claudia_: welcome. |
| 20:00 | We have everyone, let's begin. First ... | |
| 20:00 | Claudia_ | Hello everyoneb |
| 20:00 | Quozl | #topic sugarlabs.org renewal |
| 20:01 | Situation is press coverage of the sale of the .org registrar and _likely_ price rises. | |
| 20:01 | We can't be sure the price will rise, but the costs are small, and the question is really do we expect to last another ten years. Opinions? | |
| 20:02 | MrBIOS | right, but there’s no downside to renewing for a long time, other than the actual cost of doing so right now |
| 20:02 | pikurasa | yes, I expect to last 10 years |
| 20:02 | MrBIOS | we’ve been around for ten years, another ten seems plausible :) |
| 20:02 | llaske | I don't think there is a risk of huge rise |
| 20:02 | walterbender | me too |
| 20:02 | (on both counts) | |
| 20:02 | MrBIOS | llaske: time will tell, private equity firms are notoriously greedy |
| 20:02 | pikurasa | The total price (now) is prob 120, correct? |
| 20:02 | Quozl | Thanks all. MrBIOS: have you a revised motion given the mailing list discussion and this discussion? |
| 20:03 | Claudia_ | I will seat in the background |
| 20:03 | MrBIOS | I do not, one second |
| 20:03 | Claudia_ | I am in a meeting until 3:30 pm |
| 20:03 | llaske | MrBIOS: yes but even +50% will be manageable for us |
| 20:03 | walterbender | we might change focus over time... but I think the core problems we are facing will be around in ten years |
| 20:03 | llaske | Tools could change but I'm agree that problems will be there |
| 20:04 | MrBIOS | pikurasa: it depends on which registrar SFC uses, the exact price/cost |
| 20:05 | Quozl | It would seem we are in agreement to organise a renewal for ten years; can I have a motion? |
| 20:05 | pikurasa | MrBIOS: please give your revised motion |
| 20:05 | MrBIOS | I move that we ask SFC to renew sugarlabs.org for as many years as $120 will get us. |
| 20:05 | pikurasa | I am happy to ask SFC |
| 20:06 | Quozl | Votes? |
| 20:06 | pikurasa | I liked this better: I propose that we immediately direct SFC to renew sugarlabs.org for the |
| 20:06 | maximum allowable duration of ten years, and use the funds they have | |
| 20:06 | allocated for SugarLabs to do so. | |
| 20:06 | Claudia_ | how much is it? |
| 20:06 | pikurasa | ...as I usually provide a link when I communicate with SFC |
| 20:06 | Quozl | SFC tend to resist motions that don't have numbers. |
| 20:07 | pikurasa | Put "up to $200" |
| 20:07 | Quozl | Ok. |
| 20:07 | MrBIOS | sugarlabs.org is registered through May 2020 as of right now, so this would have to happen in the next few months anyways |
| 20:07 | Quozl | Seconding of amended motion? |
| 20:07 | pikurasa | I propose that we immediately direct SFC to renew sugarlabs.org for the maximum allowable duration of ten years, and use the funds--up to $200--they have allocated for SugarLabs to do so. |
| 20:07 | MrBIOS | seconded. |
| 20:07 | Quozl | Votes? |
| 20:07 | walterbender | +1 |
| 20:07 | samsongoddy | +1 |
| 20:07 | llaske | +1 |
| 20:07 | Quozl | +1 |
| 20:08 | Claudia_: ? | |
| 20:08 | pikurasa | assumes we are voting on the (03:07:20 PM) amended motion |
| 20:08 | Quozl | pikurasa: me too. |
| 20:08 | pikurasa | Great. Thanks. |
| 20:08 | Quozl | Carried. Claudia_ must be busy. Next ... |
| 20:08 | #topic reports from project representative | |
| 20:09 | pikurasa: anything to report regarding SFC? | |
| 20:09 | (i'm following standing agenda per wiki). | |
| 20:09 | pikurasa | Quozl: Not much. I asked them to complete the two reimbursements that they began (per my "please weigh in" email to SLOBS) |
| 20:10 | Quozl | pikurasa: thanks. Next ... |
| 20:10 | #topic reports from membership and elections committee | |
| 20:10 | walterbender | rahul has heard nothing from them... ut not unexpected |
| 20:10 | Quozl | I asked for their report on 28th November, but there was no answer. |
| 20:10 | pikurasa | walterbender: I can call Karen... |
| 20:10 | walterbender | samsongoddy, ??? |
| 20:10 | Claudia_ | +1 |
| 20:10 | walterbender | pikurasa, sure |
| 20:10 | pikurasa | Claudia_: thank you |
| 20:10 | Quozl | In particular I asked for plans for this year's election, changes to the list of members this year, and what the committee has done since last report. |
| 20:11 | I propose the committee is not functioning and the board may have to organise the election. | |
| 20:11 | samsongoddy | Ibiam is more in-charge |
| 20:11 | MrBIOS | regardless, we need an answer |
| 20:11 | Quozl | My mail was to memberssugarlabs.org, and the alias was there last I checked. |
| 20:12 | walterbender | can we designate samsongoddy to try to get things moving as the rep from SLOB? |
| 20:12 | samsongoddy | As regards on the election, i am unsure how it will be organised now with the new developement |
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| 20:12 | samsongoddy | I am willing to, walterbender. |
| 20:12 | MrBIOS | the same as always, until/unless we decide to change it. |
| 20:12 | Quozl | samsongoddy: the old organisation must continue to exist in full until it is terminated, to do so otherwise would be a breach of conditions. |
| 20:12 | pikurasa | hi ibiam |
| 20:13 | walterbender | ibiam, please read the log |
| 20:13 | Quozl | MrBIOS: presumably the new organisation will decide on membership conditions and list of members? |
| 20:13 | pikurasa | we are talking about elections |
| 20:13 | MrBIOS | yes, at some future point, presumably significantly further down the road than we are now |
| 20:13 | Quozl | MrBIOS: thanks. |
| 20:13 | ibiam | Hi pikurasa, walterbender: yeah, on it. |
| 20:14 | Quozl | I'm not worried about having a later election, but we are obliged to have one each year. |
| 20:14 | walterbender | yes... |
| 20:14 | Claudia_ | It would be good to think about the board for a new organization... |
| 20:14 | no? | |
| 20:14 | walterbender | and I see no reason to overhaul the process |
| 20:15 | Quozl | I propose we expect a report for next month's meeting, and we may have had an election by then, who knows? |
| 20:15 | pikurasa | walterbender: I agree, it would be simpler to keep things as they are as much as possible |
| 20:16 | walterbender | Quozl, I think we should ask ibiam to come up with a plan and report by email by the 15th |
| 20:16 | not such a big lift | |
| 20:16 | Quozl | Motion: Samson Goddy to be the board liaison for the Membership and Elections Committee. |
| 20:16 | walterbender | I think he already is... but seconded |
| 20:16 | Quozl | walterbender: I agree, but we can just let that happen after telling them. |
| 20:16 | walterbender: thanks. wiki out of date, will fix after this motion. | |
| 20:17 | samsongoddy: you okay bing the board's contact point for the committee? | |
| 20:17 | s/bing/being | |
| 20:17 | samsongoddy | Yes |
| 20:17 | MrBIOS | +1 |
| 20:18 | Quozl | llaske: Claudia_: pikurasa: ? votes. (next is project teams, e.g. gci) |
| 20:18 | pikurasa | +1 |
| 20:18 | llaske | +1 |
| 20:18 | Claudia_ | +1 |
| 20:18 | MrBIOS | I have one proposed topic for discussion afterwards, FOSDEM |
| 20:18 | Quozl | Thanks. Carried. ... |
| 20:18 | MrBIOS: noted. | |
| 20:18 | #topic project teams reports, google code-in | |
| 20:18 | llaske | Quozl: you didn't vote? |
| 20:19 | Quozl | llaske: i made the motion, i thought it was kinda assumed. |
| 20:19 | walterbender: please report on gci? | |
| 20:20 | walterbender | 164 students partipating so far |
| 20:20 | 100+ tasks completed | |
| 20:20 | we are starting to get some good work.. | |
| 20:20 | significant Music Blocks commits | |
| 20:20 | Python3 tasks in progress | |
| 20:20 | etc. | |
| 20:21 | some obvious talent emerging | |
| 20:21 | llaske | Already few issues fixed in Sugarizer |
| 20:21 | walterbender | FWIW, it is really nice to have Quozl as a mentor this year |
| 20:21 | makes it much easier to coordinate work on Sugar | |
| 20:21 | MrBIOS | agreed |
| 20:21 | Quozl | from my perspective, up until 12 hours ago, we had no significant work on sugar, but lots of noise and conflicting expectations. i tend to be more interested in merged pull requests than experiments. ;-) |
| 20:22 | walterbender | Quozl, at least 3 Python 3 tasks are active |
| 20:22 | and it is just Day 3 | |
| 20:22 | Quozl | i'm hoping it will give a return on investment, and this will be the test case for my continued involvement. |
| 20:22 | Claudia_ has quit IRC | |
| 20:22 | Quozl | i note claudia has pinged out. |
| 20:22 | llaske | Yes we have lot of "Make a pull request" tasks. Is it really usefull ? |
| 20:22 | walterbender | llaske, I think so |
| 20:22 | Quozl | llaske: i don't think so. |
| 20:23 | MrBIOS | yes, I agree, it’s really not ideal to have people who have _literally never used Sugar before_ trying to bumble through tasks. We need to do a better job of making it clear we expect them to have at least used/tried it before they go do GCI work for us. |
| 20:23 | Quozl | llaske: but then i think the "make a logo we will ignore" is also likewise unwise. |
| 20:23 | walterbender | there I agree |
| 20:23 | ibiam | I agree with walterbender, it's just 3 days and with time we'll get good contributions. |
| 20:23 | Quozl | llaske: we seem to have a lot of mentors who want to push the students to tune their logos, but to what end i don't know ... power trip, perhaps. |
| 20:23 | llaske | "Make a t-shirt" is not interesting too |
| 20:23 | walterbender | the Git task impresses our dev process. |
| 20:24 | the gratuitous and hard to evaluate design tasks do little for anyone | |
| 20:24 | stays away from those tasks | |
| 20:24 | Quozl | walterbender: graphic design, you mean? i don't know why the prefix keeps being dropped; perhaps it is an australian language thing. |
| 20:24 | llaske | The first basic task for Sugarizer is "Complete the development tutorial", I think we should have the equivalent for Sugar instead of just "Make a pull request" |
| 20:24 | Quozl | i'm worried that by staying away from tasks we disagree with, we mislead the students. |
| 20:25 | MrBIOS | llaske: +1 |
| 20:25 | ibiam | MrBIOS: python3 porting tasks makes it clear what's required of them before taking on the task. |
| 20:25 | walterbender | Quozl, I spend my time trying to argue with the mentors... |
| 20:25 | llaske | MrBIOS: Is it possible to reborn the Sugar development tutorial? |
| 20:26 | MrBIOS | llaske: I don’t know, as I’m not sure I’ve seen it, but if you can find a link, I would like to review it |
| 20:26 | pikurasa | Quozl: We did have one student, one year, really help out and get a lot out of design: https://musicblocks.net/2017/0[…]for-music-blocks/ |
| 20:26 | llaske | We have also few mentors with 0 task... |
| 20:26 | Quozl | we also have lots of mentors not on irc. |
| 20:26 | i'd like to drop mentors who don't even turn up. | |
| 20:27 | pikurasa | It is a pretty striking before/after, and the student seems proud of the work she did (she wrote the blogpost) |
| 20:27 | MrBIOS | how many mentors do we have, total? |
| 20:27 | and how many haven’t “shown up”? | |
| 20:27 | walterbender: ? | |
| 20:27 | walterbender | 25+ |
| 20:27 | pikurasa | Quozl: at what point do we drop them? Sometimes we do not know which ones will turn out that way... |
| 20:27 | ibiam | walterbender: Quozl's idea seems feasible if after the 3rd week a mentors task interaction count is below a number. |
| 20:27 | walterbender | we can remove the ones who have not interacted at the end of the week |
| 20:27 | pikurasa | By the end of the 2nd week? |
| 20:28 | Quozl | i'd say it is up to walter, and also ibiam, as org admins. |
| 20:28 | pikurasa | Yes, I agree that mentors who are not interacting at all by the 2-3 week should be dropped. |
| 20:28 | Quozl | i don't think the board should do anything other than make sure walter and ibiam can do what they need. the feedback is the thing they need. |
| 20:29 | walterbender | +1 |
| 20:29 | samsongoddy | +1 too |
| 20:29 | MrBIOS | +1 |
| 20:29 | Quozl | 'cause the situation is fluid. |
| 20:29 | moving on shortly. | |
| 20:29 | walterbender | fwiw, 33% of the mentors have not yet interacted with any tasks |
| 20:29 | Quozl | can't imagine what they are mentors for then. ;-} |
| 20:29 | walterbender | one mentor has interacted with 65 tasks :) |
| 20:29 | Quozl | #topic FOSDEM |
| 20:30 | ibiam | MrBIOS: So far 20+ mentors have a task interaction count below 10. |
| 20:30 | walterbender | not sure have a propsoal for FOSDEM yet |
| 20:30 | MrBIOS | I was contacted by Martin Abente Lahaye back on November 27th, and asked if I would be attending FOSDEM in Brussels. He indicated that the CEO of PINE64 was interested in meeting up with Sugar Labs, and that he would be there. |
| 20:30 | Quozl | As I understand it, some of our members plan to attend FOSDEM, so there are opportunities. |
| 20:30 | MrBIOS: "he" is CEO or Martin? | |
| 20:30 | samsongoddy | I might be in Belgium |
| 20:30 | MrBIOS | CEO |
| 20:31 | Quozl | MrBIOS: thanks. |
| 20:31 | samsongoddy | Not Might I will, lol |
| 20:31 | MrBIOS | FOSDEM is Feb 2 |
| 20:32 | I have already booked travel, airfare and a cheap AirBnB, and would appreciate it if someone would move to support reimbursement of my travel expenses, which should be pretty minimal. My flight was cheap. | |
| 20:32 | but if not, I understand. Also, apparently we’re going to have a table there, but it was news to me that that was something that had been asked for, and I have no idea who facilitated it | |
| 20:32 | samsongoddy | I am going to be attending Sustain Summit January will join MrBIOS as we did as Pycon US |
| 20:32 | Quozl | I'd say it is too late under SFC practices to get travel organised by them. So I don't think we can start on a motion binding SFC to pay. |
| 20:33 | pikurasa | MrBIOS: more info... and a number, please |
| 20:33 | "cheap" is not a number | |
| 20:33 | MrBIOS | we can’t ask SFC to pay for this. |
| 20:33 | under $1,200 | |
| 20:33 | pikurasa | MrBIOS: so "up to $1200" |
| 20:33 | MrBIOS | sure, I can cover anything over that myself if necessary |
| 20:34 | pikurasa | MrBIOS: and what is the expected outcome for SLI? |
| 20:34 | Quozl | Who asked for a table and why was the board unaware? |
| 20:34 | pikurasa | (just gotta' ask these questions) |
| 20:34 | samsongoddy | Vipul did apply for a stand |
| 20:34 | walterbender | it was some community members |
| 20:34 | MrBIOS | samsongoddy: it would have been nice if they would have chosen to share that info :) |
| 20:34 | Quozl | Right. Worth encouraging Vipul to coordinate with the board in future. Or at least tell us. |
| 20:34 | pikurasa | Quozl: When we are at the end of our list, I do have one topic to bring up for discussion regarding our 1023. Please add to the list. |
| 20:35 | Quozl | pikurasa: noted. |
| 20:35 | MrBIOS | of course. the expected outcome is additional developer awareness, attempts at recruiting new developers, and to engage with PINE64 folks to see if they have any interest in Sugar as a learning platform. |
| 20:35 | FOSDEM is a free conference, there is no registration. You just show up. | |
| 20:36 | Quozl | By Pine64 you mean Pine Microsystems, Inc? |
| 20:36 | MrBIOS | Quozl: correct |
| 20:37 | pikurasa | The event samsongoddy is attending is separate, correct? |
| 20:37 | MrBIOS | I intend to bring a couple of XO’s and a low end $200 machine to demo Sugar on. |
| 20:37 | pikurasa: I don’t know. | |
| 20:37 | samsongoddy | Yes, the reason I am going to Belgium is for sustain summit. They will be covering my cost, but I am not sure how I can get extra days for FOSSDEM |
| 20:38 | Quozl | Martin tweeted two hours ago about Pinebook. |
| 20:38 | samsongoddy | MrBIOS, how big is the Airbnb? |
| 20:38 | llaske | MrBIOS: I thought to this tutorial: https://archive.flossmanuals.n[…]ar-activities.pdf |
| 20:38 | pikurasa | MrBIOS: You already purchased your ticket, correct? |
| 20:39 | Quozl | llaske: it's out of date, doesn't work properly, and don't know how to fix it except by copy and paste. anyone heard from the author? |
| 20:39 | MrBIOS | pikurasa: correct, I will be going regardless, because I think it’s in the interest of SLI to do so, even if nobody else does. I believe the airfare was under $700 round trip |
| 20:39 | Quozl: he’s proposing we revise it, not use it as-is | |
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| 20:40 | llaske | Quozl: No I don't the manual exist also in HTML here: http://write.flossmanuals.net/[…]ies/introduction/ |
| 20:40 | MrBIOS | pikurasa: $536.53 round trip, via Aer Lingus. |
| 20:41 | Quozl | Thanks all. Are we ready to have a motion regarding FOSDEM travel? |
| 20:42 | pikurasa | As the appointed CFO, I would like to streamline the process for reimbursements, but--as I am responsible for making sure the org does not tank--I ask that you please do not pay for stuff before proposing for a reimbursement. |
| 20:42 | MrBIOS | as a general rule, I completely agree. You can vote no. I’ve chosen to go either way. |
| 20:43 | pikurasa | @others, please advise, does this sound like it is worth the expenditure? I have never attended FOSSDEM, so I have no way to judge. |
| 20:43 | Quozl | I agree, prepayment and asking for reimbursement also creates a decision bias for the board. |
| 20:43 | walterbender | That said, I think we need to get out into the world... |
| 20:43 | samsongoddy | Agreed too |
| 20:44 | walterbender | and the cost is not exorbitant. |
| 20:44 | MrBIOS | I’ve not been to FOSDEM, however it is one of the largest gatherings on earth of FLOSS folks. |
| 20:44 | samsongoddy | It is the largest |
| 20:44 | Quozl | pikurasa: i can't see enough prior return on investment for funding travel for any of the members to conferences, so i'm no longer in favour of further conferences. |
| 20:45 | llaske | Quozl: +1 |
| 20:45 | Quozl | ... but costs for branded give-away materials might be okay. |
| 20:46 | Claudia_ | walterbender: what are other ways to get out into the world? |
| 20:46 | pikurasa | I also would appreciate a more holistic proposal -- not just a bit here and there -- when asking for a reimbursement. MrBIOS, can you please concatenate all you have said here from the dollar amount to the deliverables? |
| 20:46 | Quozl | ... sticker tables are common, and a lot of fun. |
| 20:47 | pikurasa | I motion that MrBIOS send a detailed proposal via email |
| 20:47 | MrBIOS | I’m asking for reimbursement of precisely two things, travel and lodging. I intend to cover everything else on my own dime. For those of you who don’t see value in being present, I’m not sure what to tell you. |
| 20:47 | maybe if you went yourself you might have a different perspective | |
| 20:48 | I’m fine with no compensation | |
| 20:48 | Quozl | I do go to linux.conf.au, and it is personally valuable, but organisational value usually depends on presenting long form talks, not lightning talks or marketplace tables. |
| 20:49 | ibiam | I agree with MrBIOS there's value as they're people we can talk with and get to spread sugar. |
| 20:49 | Pine64 folks are a good instance. | |
| 20:49 | walterbender | we could try to be opportunisitic and meet up with other learning groups |
| 20:49 | samsongoddy | lightning talks got me money to host conference, so it depends who is talking |
| 20:49 | walterbender | not leave it to chance. |
| 20:49 | MrBIOS | Quozl: at PyCon, they had self-assignable spaces where you could reserve an hour in a given room to discuss any chosen topic. We had several for Sugar. |
| 20:49 | Quozl | And unfortunately, historically, we don't seem to have much buy-in after a conference. Who of you joined Sugar Labs after hearing about it at a conference? |
| 20:50 | MrBIOS | I believe the same concept exists at FOSDEM. |
| 20:50 | walterbender | I'm less interested in who joins than who uses |
| 20:50 | pikurasa | MrBIOS: Please send a more comprehensive proposal, and give us some time to digest this. |
| 20:50 | walterbender | Music Blocks in Japan is from a conference interaction |
| 20:50 | Quozl | At linux.conf.au in January there's an education miniconf that I could talk at, but I don't really have enough to say. I maintained a lot of old Python code. ;-) |
| 20:50 | MrBIOS | walterbender: yep. Also, frankly, it gives us an opportunity to tell the world “WE’RE NOT DEAD” |
| 20:51 | it’s hard work, not some cosy vacation | |
| 20:51 | pikurasa: sure thing, will do | |
| 20:51 | Claudia_ | I think it is important to attend some of the conferences... I don`t know if we have a list of them for a big picture |
| 20:51 | llaske | samsongoddy: you've got a nice business to be paid to attend conference to host conference where you could be paid to attend to other conferences :-) |
| 20:51 | ibiam | Quozl: focusing on sugar as an educational tool than the old python code base would be great. |
| 20:52 | MrBIOS | That brings up another issue, which is unresponsiveness to SLOBS@ e-mails on the part of various board members |
| 20:52 | This concerns me, does it concern anyone else? | |
| 20:52 | samsongoddy | llaske, I don't understand what you just said |
| 20:53 | Quozl | #topic 1023 |
| 20:53 | pikurasa: go ahead on 1023? | |
| 20:53 | MrBIOS | llaske: you’re out of line with that comment, really. |
| 20:53 | pikurasa | Quozl: yes.. |
| 20:53 | Quozl | MrBIOS: i see it as in jest. |
| 20:53 | llaske | MrBIOS: Apologize. Just kidding. |
| 20:54 | pikurasa | I just have one question -- that we never really asked, but needs to be asked: What compensation -- if any -- for the officers of SLI? |
| 20:54 | walterbender | wants no compensation |
| 20:54 | pikurasa | Right now, I just have all zeros, but I made some assumptions |
| 20:55 | as historically no one has taken compensation | |
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| 20:55 | Quozl | My opinion is that the organisation will not be able to afford compensation given the known income streams at this time. But I'm not on SLI board, so all I can do is give my opinion. No compensation also means you get the dregs of remaining time when the officer is busy with other things. |
| 20:56 | pikurasa | Quozl: well said |
| 20:56 | MrBIOS | Agreed. |
| 20:56 | pikurasa | BTW, my student just showed up and I need to leave soon |
| 20:57 | walterbender | any action needed re the IRS form? |
| 20:57 | Quozl | pikurasa: okay, the meeting was forecast to end very shortly. |
| 20:57 | pikurasa: do we need a motion from the SLI board? | |
| 20:57 | pikurasa | No, but please think about it. |
| 20:57 | Right now, I have all zeros. | |
| 20:57 | Either way, I will be asking for a budget to work with an accountant | |
| 20:58 | As I do not want to pretend I am an accountant | |
| 20:58 | walterbender | +1 |
| 20:58 | pikurasa | when SLI has to send in papers to the IRS |
| 20:58 | Quozl | Okay, thanks all, I move that we close the meeting. |
| 20:58 | pikurasa | +1 |
| 20:58 | MrBIOS | seconded |
| 20:58 | walterbender | seconded |
| 20:58 | pikurasa | Thanks! |
| 20:58 | samsongoddy | +1 |
| 20:58 | walterbender | +1 |
| 20:58 | llaske | +1 |
| 20:58 | pikurasa has quit IRC | |
| 20:58 | walterbender | thanks everyone |
| 20:58 | Claudia_ | +1 |
| 20:58 | Quozl | #endmeeting |
| 20:59 | meeting | Meeting ended Wed Dec 4 20:58:59 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
| 20:59 | Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-04T19:54:20.html | |
| 20:59 | Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]19-12-04T19:54:20 | |
| 20:59 | Quozl | MrBIOS: regarding non-response, it's what this meeting is to cover for. |
| 20:59 | MrBIOS | but again, I really would like everyone to consider whether or not it’s okay to ignore motions to slobs@ for weeks |
| 20:59 | FreddieNGCI | before people depart commenting on the logos mentioned earlier I am wondering if we should reduce the instance count? |
| 20:59 | MrBIOS | agreed, we have standing meetings for a reason, but things come up between them |
| 20:59 | Quozl | MrBIOS: technically, by our agreed procedure, the motion expires. |
| 20:59 | FreddieNGCI: yes, i think so. | |
| 21:00 | MrBIOS | I understand the process, I just think it’s irresponsible. |
| 21:00 | Quozl | MrBIOS: and if a motion expires it means there is not sufficient interest. |
| 21:00 | MrBIOS: it's like raising a motion here and nobody saying anything, which has happened. | |
| 21:00 | MrBIOS | yeah, well, I think that’s rude :) |
| 21:00 | Quozl | MrBIOS: board members have a right to be silent, even if it is rude. |
| 21:01 | MrBIOS | of course they do. |
| 21:01 | FreddieNGCI | Quozl the current ones in my list I am not too sure what to say as I do not think many of them are at the required standard. |
| 21:01 | Quozl | FreddieNGCI: to evaluate standard on the ones i approved, i used the task description only, not a "would we use this on sugarlabs.org". |
| 21:02 | FreddieNGCI: so i approved a few logos that were truly pathetic by my own or sugarlabs standards. | |
| 21:02 | walterbender | FreddieNGCI, there is a lot of interest in the logos by some members of the community so I defer even though I don't have much interest in them. But we need to keep high standards for execution of these designs |
| 21:02 | Quozl | walterbender: as long as those high standards are quantifiable in the task description. |
| 21:03 | walterbender | my concern is that the design tasks seem to sit unreviewed for long periods, which is not fair to the students. |
| 21:03 | FreddieNGCI | That is a good way of doing it quozl. I will follow that strategy. I just had a look at the task instance and we have 18 claims. |
| 21:03 | Quozl | walterbender: are any not reviewed in 36 hours? |
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| 21:03 | MrBIOS | walterbender: I’m happy to assist in reviewing design tasks, but I may not be particularly forgiving |
| 21:03 | that said, I will do my best to provide constructive feedback | |
| 21:04 | walterbender | I am hoping Perrie, who just finished up her exams, will have time |
| 21:04 | she is qualified to give feedback | |
| 21:04 | Quozl | MrBIOS: haven't seen you on the gci site as a mentor; it's all closed, are you there? |
| 21:04 | MrBIOS | Quozl: I have an account, yes. |
| 21:04 | Quozl | walterbender: what is perrie's qualification? she's done no graphic design for sugar as far as i know, and we do need some here and there. |
| 21:05 | walterbender | she has done some graphic design work for Music Blocks and lots of other projects. She had proposed changes to Sugar but not ever gotten concensus around her changes |
| 21:07 | eohomegrownapps | walterbender: regarding mentorship, I'm going to be quite busy over the next week or so with university interviews / olympiads so I won't be able to do much until then - apologies for this |
| 21:07 | but I should have more time thereafter | |
| 21:08 | FreddieNGCI | walterbender I just don't feel many of the logos really warrant an approval in my honest opinion as it's great they back it up but some are simply some text coloured and manipulated. It is quite hard to suggest a complete redesign unless its very obvious they have put little work in. |
| 21:08 | On a positive note, there has been some good work with Sugarizer :) | |
| 21:09 | walterbender | then they should not be approved |
| 21:09 | and there has been some solid work on Music Blocks too | |
| 21:09 | the bottom line is there is always some noise but the signal comes through pretty clearly | |
| 21:09 | and the noise is not harmful | |
| 21:10 | Quozl | then i think the task description is unfair, as it does not clearly suggest that people need graphic design skills. |
| 21:10 | MrBIOS | and it’s reasonable to expect the noise to peak in the beginning ,when the clue-factor is particularly low :) |
| 21:10 | FreddieNGCI | Yes we are only 2 days in :) |
| 21:10 | Quozl | people without graphic design skills often think they can make a good logo. |
| 21:10 | MrBIOS | Quozl: agreed, it’s a problem :P |
| 21:10 | Quozl | so add a rider to the task description. |
| 21:11 | up the front. | |
| 21:11 | "for students who do a commercial art subject at school", for instance. | |
| 21:12 | otherwise we'll keep having stuff that is crap. | |
| 21:13 | MrBIOS | I agree that for the graphic design tasks, there should be some requirement for experience, but frankly, for pre-college folks, there aren’t really “commercial art subject” classes. |
| 21:13 | so you need to keep in mind the capabilities of the applicants. | |
| 21:13 | and their ages. | |
| 21:14 | Quozl | how about "you have done an art elective". |
| 21:14 | MrBIOS | exactly |
| 21:14 | something age appropriate. “I have never attempted to create a logo before” isn’t what we want | |
| 21:15 | Quozl | "i've seen some logos" neither. |
| 21:15 | FreddieNGCI | I agree. Although we now only have 8 instances remaining and 14 students currently working. Out of all of them only 4 have been approved and a lot are just sending back minor redesigns of their current logo which isn't really the point. |
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