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19:49 | MrBIOS <MrBIOS!~aperez192.171.20.23> has joined #sugar-meeting | |
19:50 | MrBIOS | re |
19:50 | walterbender <walterbender!~walter146.115.133.213> has joined #sugar-meeting | |
19:51 | MrBIOS | walterbender: heya |
19:51 | llaske | hi all |
19:51 | walterbender | hi |
19:52 | MrBIOS | Hi guys! Samson and I are just getting set up in a space we believe will be available for a while. |
19:53 | walterbender | OK |
19:53 | llaske | Nice |
19:54 | samsongoddy <samsongoddy!~samsongod192.171.20.23> has joined #sugar-meeting | |
19:56 | MrBIOS | We had a very successful first meet-up, which rolled to nearly two hours. |
19:56 | in the “open space” rooms you can self-book here | |
19:57 | Samson took some photos and a brief video. | |
19:57 | pikurasa | I will be back in 5 min |
19:57 | MrBIOS | The Education Summit yesterday was great and we met a lot of smart and intelligent folks, and did a “mini sprint” and some networking later in the day. |
19:59 | We are doing another open space after this meeting, whenever that is | |
19:59 | walterbender: any idea if Claudia will be able to attend? | |
20:01 | pikurasa | back |
20:02 | MrBIOS | Quozl: you here? :) |
20:05 | walterbender | no idea |
20:06 | MrBIOS | and James? |
20:06 | walterbender | no idea about that either |
20:06 | didn't hear one way or another from either... | |
20:06 | MrBIOS | sigh |
20:06 | walterbender | but maybe we can get started on a few informational items while we wait? |
20:07 | so as to ensure this is logged... | |
20:07 | #start-meeting | |
20:07 | meeting | Meeting started Fri May 3 20:07:11 2019 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
20:07 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting | |
20:07 | walterbender | I assume Quozl will take over when he arrives |
20:07 | #topic GSoC | |
20:07 | Just a quick update. | |
20:07 | We accepted 9 students for the summer. | |
20:08 | We cannot make any public announcement until May 6 about whom we accepted | |
20:08 | pikurasa | Great |
20:08 | walterbender | but rest assured that it is a talented bunch with strong proposals |
20:08 | samsongoddy | Yeah |
20:08 | MrBIOS | great :) |
20:08 | walterbender | and strong mentorship teams. |
20:08 | samsongoddy | I agree |
20:08 | pikurasa | What about GSo Docs? I do not remember hearing about that... |
20:09 | walterbender | I'll be organizing a weekly -- public -- mentor meeting -- probably on Mondays this year. |
20:09 | and will expect the individual mentor teams to report to the dev list at least 1x per week. | |
20:10 | On the 6th, I will send out an email with the details to the community. | |
20:10 | Thanks to everyone who helped with the org this year, esp. Rahul, who was very attentive to the details. | |
20:10 | #topic GSoD | |
20:10 | Alas, we were not accepted into Google Season of Documentation | |
20:11 | pikurasa | Was there a reason stated? |
20:11 | MrBIOS | we can always try again next year |
20:11 | walterbender | This comes as no surprise, since we had no project ideas on our proposal site. |
20:11 | pikurasa | I see |
20:11 | walterbender | We will do better next year, since we know it is coming. |
20:11 | MrBIOS | I personally believe we have enough spinning plates right now, and the timing just isn’t right |
20:11 | right | |
20:11 | llaske | +1 MrBIOS |
20:12 | walterbender | I for one was caught up in GSoC and lacked the bandwidth to egg on the community. |
20:12 | #topic Kano | |
20:13 | The Kano workshop was a success from what I hear. I am meeting (by Hangouts) with the team next week to talk about next steps. | |
20:13 | MrBIOS | cool, would be great to know how many attendees there were, and get any photos available |
20:13 | walterbender | That will include more school engagement and a longer term series of projects. |
20:13 | I asked that they post to the list with the photos. I will ask again. | |
20:14 | samsongoddy | They did |
20:14 | I shared them with you | |
20:14 | walterbender | I don't know the actual numbers... I think they were modest, but this was just the first step. |
20:14 | Yes, samsongoddy, I saw the photos, but I don't feel comfortable sharing w/o permission | |
20:15 | Esp. picture of children. | |
20:15 | samsongoddy | Yes, that is true |
20:15 | walterbender | But looks like they had fun. Lots of emph. on the more game-like activities in the introductory workshop. |
20:16 | MrBIOS | Quozl: ping double ping |
20:16 | walterbender | Anyway, that is all from me re updates. |
20:16 | pikurasa | was this led by samsongoddy? |
20:16 | samsongoddy | I was away from the country |
20:16 | walterbender | MrBIOS, Maybe you can start off the discussion about life post SFC? |
20:16 | Quozl, and Claudia can read the backlog | |
20:17 | MrBIOS | sure. First, can everyone reply in the affirmative that they have rully read the e-mail from Karen at SFC? |
20:17 | samsongoddy | Yes, I did. |
20:17 | walterbender | +1 |
20:17 | pikurasa | yes |
20:17 | llaske | +1 |
20:17 | MrBIOS | ok, thanks |
20:17 | Quozl | morning, failed to set alarm. |
20:17 | MrBIOS | no worries, glad you’re with us |
20:17 | walterbender | Hi Quozl ... |
20:17 | llaske | Hi Quozl |
20:17 | samsongoddy | Hi |
20:18 | pikurasa | 4/25, correct? |
20:18 | walterbender | handing over the baton... |
20:18 | Quozl | i'm not awake enough to have the baton, can you keep it? |
20:18 | pikurasa | (actually, now that I search I see that there is a separate email that I filtered out. REading this other one now...) |
20:18 | MrBIOS | So, it’s clear SFC is done with us, and I think it’s a good time to end our relationship with them as amicably as possible. We must now decide our future. |
20:19 | pikurasa | reads "a new chapter" |
20:19 | llaske | I'm questioning about the form of SugarLabs organisation without SFC |
20:20 | MrBIOS | I am personally in favor of Sugar Labs becoming a stand-alone 501(c)3 non-profit, here in the US. I am willing to put significant time and effort into making this happen, and there is a mechanism for the SFC to transfer the funds held on our behalf to us, if and when we leave. |
20:20 | llaske | It's mentioned here https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs |
20:20 | walterbender | we need to either find a new home or create one. |
20:20 | llaske | that SugarLabs is just a project of SFC |
20:20 | walterbender | a bit of history... |
20:20 | MrBIOS | llaske: correct, and SFC wishes to terminate that agreement |
20:20 | pikurasa | finished |
20:20 | walterbender | when I spun Sugar Labs outside of OLPC in 2008 we needed a home. |
20:20 | llaske | So SugarLabs doesn't exist as an organization today |
20:21 | MrBIOS | correct, we are not a legal entity |
20:21 | walterbender | Eben Moglen is one of the people I went to for advice |
20:21 | MrBIOS | SFC exists to be an umbrella organization for open source projects |
20:21 | walterbender | he steered my to SFC rather than creating a stand-alone entity |
20:21 | we have the option to unilaterally depart at any time as long as it is to a non-profit | |
20:22 | and they have asked us to exercise that option | |
20:22 | MrBIOS | correct, and there is precedence for this with SFC. |
20:22 | other projects have done it | |
20:22 | walterbender | but we are still part of the SFC until we move on... |
20:22 | pikurasa | IMHO, the downside to going our own is the burden of resources (time, money); the upside is autonomy |
20:22 | walterbender | the quesiton is to we try to join another umbrella, e.g., SPI, or another non-profit, e.g., OLPC, or stand alone. |
20:23 | MrBIOS | pikurasa: yes, it’s certainly a double edged sword. |
20:23 | walterbender | same double-edged sword as 2008 |
20:23 | MrBIOS | yes, here we are again, eleven years later. |
20:23 | llaske | May be we could pay to have professional advice on it |
20:23 | pikurasa | Does anyone hear actually know what is involved to create one's own 503c? |
20:23 | walterbender | do you have anyone in mind? |
20:24 | MrBIOS | pikurasa: yes, I have done extensive research prior to this for other reasons |
20:24 | walterbender | I've done it before... |
20:24 | MrBIOS | it’s not complicated |
20:24 | Quozl | continues to listen |
20:24 | walterbender | it is not so much work |
20:24 | but it is not guaranteed | |
20:24 | pikurasa | With the budget that we have already, is there a big burden for our first year? |
20:24 | walterbender | and it is open-ended as to when we become official |
20:24 | MrBIOS | pikurasa: no, it could be done for under a thousand dollars, if need be. |
20:24 | pikurasa | (because I have heard people suggest that it is not so difficult if our revenue is low) |
20:25 | MrBIOS | it can be fast-tracked in a few weeks |
20:25 | walterbender | the accounting burden is minimal given our current burnrate |
20:25 | MrBIOS, the application can be fast-tracked, ye | |
20:25 | but we have not way to ensure that the decision will be fast=tracked | |
20:25 | MrBIOS | correct |
20:25 | walterbender | could take a few months or a few years |
20:26 | pikurasa | Yes, it seems to me that with our current level of activity, there is not so much administrative work, which would give us time to prepare for growth. |
20:26 | MrBIOS | walterbender: it’s very, _very_ unikely for it to take that long these days |
20:26 | maybe two or three months, max | |
20:26 | walterbender | the question is, what is our goal for growth. |
20:26 | MrBIOS, that is great | |
20:27 | Quozl | i would further constrain any goal to what we are willing to do. |
20:27 | walterbender | and does out goal for growth impact on this decision |
20:27 | MrBIOS | Quozl: of course |
20:27 | llaske | Is there any question regarding Licence, because licences mention "SugarLabs", so it means SFC today ? |
20:27 | walterbender | the license would transfer to us |
20:27 | pikurasa | llaske: trademark? |
20:27 | MrBIOS | llaske: if you read the SFC agreement, it’s all laid out |
20:27 | that is frankly something you should have read when you became a board member | |
20:28 | Quozl | can't remember everything. |
20:28 | MrBIOS | right, it’s dense |
20:28 | but that agreement is clear | |
20:28 | Quozl | we also stop losing tax to sfc. |
20:28 | llaske | To be honest I thought SugarLabs was an organisation under the umbrella of SFC |
20:28 | walterbender | yes... we get out tithe back |
20:28 | MrBIOS | llaske: we are, but we are not a legal entity, SFC is |
20:28 | llaske | Like OLPC France is an organisation |
20:28 | MrBIOS | llaske: we don’t have the same legal system. |
20:28 | llaske | Ok I got it |
20:29 | pikurasa | Being a legal entity means the entity can accept and make payments, etc |
20:29 | MrBIOS | and be taxed :) |
20:29 | pikurasa | which is autonomy |
20:29 | MrBIOS: yes, we then bow to the government (rather than another org) | |
20:29 | walterbender | In my mind, the significant advantage to not going our own is potential synergy with some other org. |
20:29 | MrBIOS | yes, and we can actually buy commercial books without ideological objections. |
20:29 | walterbender | we never really got synergy with SFC |
20:30 | llaske | I was president of OLPC France organisation. I know :-) |
20:30 | pikurasa | I think walterbender brings up a great point here |
20:30 | llaske | +1 MrBIOS, I don't understand this objection |
20:30 | walterbender | and probably we can get synergy w/o being joined at the hip with others |
20:30 | pikurasa | If there is opportunity for synergy, then it would be worth joining another existing entity |
20:30 | llaske | Is there other equivalent to SFC ? |
20:31 | MrBIOS | llaske: to me, it’s an extremist position, which I find sad, and a perfect example of why we simply do not align sufficiently. |
20:31 | pikurasa | llaske: FSF was mentioned |
20:31 | MrBIOS | the FSF is an option, however Bradley also serves as a member of the FSF Board |
20:31 | walterbender | SPI is prob. closest to SFC |
20:31 | llaske | FSF make sense in my opinion |
20:31 | pikurasa | walterbender: what is SPI? |
20:31 | Quozl | in australia we have a lesser status entity called an association, which i'm very familiar with, which sounds a little like a 503c. what is the burden on the directors? should we be acquiring professional liability insurance for our directing? |
20:31 | MrBIOS | llaske: they are even worse zealots, unfortunately |
20:31 | walterbender | https://www.spi-inc.org/ |
20:31 | software in the public interest | |
20:32 | https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/ | |
20:32 | looks like us | |
20:32 | and I have heard good things | |
20:32 | llaske | MrBIOS, yes you're right. But it's a good message that SugarLabs is FLOSS |
20:32 | MrBIOS | SPI is a viable potential option, however to me, it’s not clear what the benefit of going to SPI actually is |
20:32 | walterbender | I agree... I am very much leaning towards the stand alone model |
20:33 | MrBIOS | llaske: agreed, but I personally think we can advertise that more explicitly, and be closer with the FSF, if we choose to do so, without having them be our fiscal sponsor. |
20:33 | pikurasa | OLPC was another option |
20:33 | MrBIOS | Them objecting to buying a non-free book is quite likely |
20:33 | OLPC is a non-starter to me | |
20:33 | pikurasa | MrBIOS: why? |
20:33 | MrBIOS | Sugar Labs has been independent, and was cleaved off from OLPC for a reason (autonomy) |
20:33 | pikurasa | interested in knowing why |
20:33 | walterbender | and then looking more aggressively for partnerships, such as RPi, Canotical, etc. all of whom have expressed interest in the past. |
20:34 | MrBIOS | pikurasa: with OLPC, there is zero guarantee they will exist in the future. What happens then, if they go under? |
20:34 | walterbender | James can speak to the current OLPC situation. My datapoints are very old |
20:34 | MrBIOS | james? Your turn |
20:34 | pikurasa | MrBIOS: that would be unfortunate... for both groups |
20:35 | MrBIOS | pikurasa: I would personally like to see us promote suger much more aggressively outside the context of OLPC |
20:35 | attempts to do so have been made in the past. | |
20:35 | llaske | Quozl, Australian concept of association look similar to the concept of association in France. |
20:35 | samsongoddy | I think it wouldn't be a good idea to join OLPC if we are trying to make Sugar for every device |
20:35 | It is just bad PR | |
20:36 | MrBIOS | there are many, MANY people who see OLPC as a complete failure |
20:36 | hitching our cart to that wagon seems unwise. | |
20:36 | samsongoddy | We are struggling with users outside OLPC because people still think Sugar == OLPC |
20:36 | llaske | +1 samsongoddy MrBIOS |
20:36 | walterbender | OLPC rocks... but there is a perception problem |
20:36 | MrBIOS | I think we all agree there |
20:36 | pikurasa | There is a lot of bad press on OLPC, especially in US |
20:36 | walterbender | I do think we need a Quozl equiv at each potential partner |
20:37 | samsongoddy | We had some here at pycon |
20:37 | walterbender | but this is a different discussion |
20:37 | samsongoddy | I feel what Sugar Labs needs is to be standalone |
20:37 | Quozl | bad press needs good press to push back with, but olpc doesn't have enough people working on that. lately, it's me. ;-) |
20:37 | MrBIOS | correct, we have to agree how to proceed next, urgently. |
20:37 | samsongoddy | It will give us the ability to reboot |
20:38 | walterbender | sang its praises at Open edX |
20:38 | samsongoddy | and grow on our terms |
20:38 | pikurasa | I am fine with the idea of standalone. |
20:38 | MrBIOS | yes, if we think of this as a decade+ long reboot of Sugar Labs, I think we can accomplish great things, including making Rpi3+ available with Sugar by default. |
20:38 | it could even be a revenue stream for us | |
20:38 | samsongoddy | +1 |
20:38 | walterbender | I don't see the down side... if it doesn't work out, we can investigate finding a new partner org |
20:38 | samsongoddy | OSI |
20:38 | pikurasa | And I know how to do my own book-keeping (both fortunately and unfortunately) |
20:39 | walterbender | :) |
20:39 | Quozl | we already have rpi3+ available with sugar, it's called soas. |
20:39 | MrBIOS | Quozl: I am well aware |
20:39 | walterbender | Quozl, yes... but we don't have a champion pushing it in their community |
20:39 | MrBIOS | but it’s not a “complete” solution |
20:39 | it’s not a product | |
20:39 | llaske | I guess as independant organisation we need to create something different that SLOB for governance? |
20:39 | MrBIOS | it’s an amalgamation of components |
20:40 | walterbender | llaske, we will need officers |
20:40 | but we will also need a board | |
20:40 | MrBIOS | llaske: yes, and in the US, three named positions (president, secretary, and treasurer) |
20:40 | walterbender | and a community |
20:40 | MrBIOS | yes, and the community, which we will bring along |
20:40 | davelab6 <davelab6!~webchatrev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting | |
20:40 | llaske | Quozl: and another product called Sugarizer :-) |
20:40 | walterbender | davelab6, welcome |
20:41 | davelab6 | hello |
20:41 | sorry i am 40 mins late lmao | |
20:41 | Quozl | llaske: is there enough synergy between sugarizer and sugar for you to stay with us? |
20:41 | MrBIOS | so, I am willing to be one of those three named individuals, of a potential Sugar Labs 501(c)3. Is anyone else? |
20:41 | llaske | It's a question for all of us :-) |
20:41 | davelab6 | (started reading http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]etings/2019-05-03 now) |
20:42 | walterbender | was about to paste the link for you :P |
20:42 | Quozl | MrBIOS: thanks for looking into this. i'm unwilling to be a 501(c)3 named individual. but i've no other objection to the rest of you forming a 501(c)3 or to contributing to it in some way. |
20:42 | walterbender | I will be willing as well |
20:42 | MrBIOS | Quozl: that’s fine, I figured that would be the case, but that is not really any sort of problem/impediment, you can still serve on a board. |
20:42 | llaske | Same for me Quozl |
20:42 | MrBIOS | same goes for you, llaske :) |
20:43 | pikurasa | Okay, I am now leaning for: "expecting some pain, but we can go standalone and learn along the way." I don't think we will "fail" (gotta' be positive) |
20:43 | Quozl | i'm hard pressed to understand each legal system. ;-) |
20:43 | pikurasa | Whatever we do, we need to clue in the community. |
20:43 | MrBIOS | correct |
20:43 | Quozl | what funds are needed to take this option? |
20:43 | pikurasa | And give them some opportunity to petition/feedback (whatever we call it) |
20:43 | MrBIOS | Quozl: probably under $1,000 |
20:43 | davelab6 | "can everyone reply in the affirmative that they have rully read the e-mail from Karen at SFC?" <-- anyone got a link handy, if that email is archived publicly? |
20:43 | MrBIOS | you can form the actual entity, with expedited priority, for $400-500 |
20:43 | Quozl | MrBIOS: does sfc allow these funds to come from sugar labs cache? |
20:44 | MrBIOS | davelab6: I do not belive it is |
20:44 | llaske | MrBIOS oh really ? It's free in France! |
20:44 | Quozl | davelab6: it is not public. |
20:44 | MrBIOS | Quozl: I believe they would, but pikurasa should ask them that directly. |
20:44 | we have not yet engaged with them since Karen sent that e-mail, and we need to | |
20:45 | pikurasa | MrBIOS: it sounds like you have some time and energy to spearhead this. Do you want to do that? |
20:45 | Quozl | if we can't get the funds for this from sfc, are you willing to put the funds up and be reimbursed by the new org once they have fingers on the big pie? |
20:45 | walterbender | davelab6, the gist of the email was that Karen thinks it is time to go our separate ways and wishes us good luck. |
20:45 | MrBIOS | pikurasa: when you say “this” do you mean reaching out to SFC regarding the exit process? |
20:45 | if so, yes | |
20:45 | pikurasa | MrBIOS: Outline a plan and send to SLOBs. Then I can send to community. |
20:45 | walterbender | will chip in. |
20:45 | MrBIOS | Quozl: yes, I am happy to self-finance this if necessary |
20:45 | pikurasa | MrBIOS: I will communicate with SFC |
20:45 | MrBIOS | pikurasa: ok good |
20:45 | pikurasa | I am "Mr Patient" |
20:46 | Quozl | davelab6: the trigger for the mail was my emotional response to walter's private dealings with ibiam, which has since been well explained as didn't think it was necessary to explain, which i'm happy with. |
20:46 | walterbender | I am not sure if we need to hold a community referendum or if we decide this as SLOBs |
20:46 | MrBIOS | I think it will be easier to just charge it to a personal credit card and then ask for reimbursement from the new organization, once funds have transferred, unless anyone has a problem with that. |
20:46 | walterbender | what is your take Quozl ? |
20:46 | pikurasa | walterbender: It seemed like SFC was really tipping the scale--that the conclusion is foregone |
20:46 | Quozl | davelab6: as in sfc queried why ibiam's reimbursement was being paid to walter. |
20:47 | pikurasa | so I did not sense we have much of a "choice" from SFC's POV |
20:47 | MrBIOS | to be clear, no actions will be taken without full board motion/approvals |
20:47 | davelab6 | walterbender: gist understood |
20:47 | walterbender | MrBIOS, Is that enough or do we need a community vote as well? |
20:47 | MrBIOS | IMHO SFC’s reimbursement policies are simply too inflexible, and this seems to have been a problem for years. |
20:48 | walterbender | I am willing to take the blame, not being a patient person. |
20:48 | Quozl | i don't think we can fully and honestly explain the problem with sfc to the community without also explaining our incapacity to coordinate and make decisions openly. ;-) |
20:48 | MrBIOS | Quozl: I generally argree, although I think we’ve been elected to act in the best interest of Sugar Labs |
20:48 | pikurasa | I am happy to create an email to community, but... |
20:49 | davelab6 | MrBIOS: agree their reimbursement model was not a good fit |
20:49 | pikurasa | I would like an outline of a plan, so as to not leave people hanging. |
20:49 | llaske | I think SLOB decision is enough. It's just an administrative issue finally |
20:49 | MrBIOS | unless we intend to remove voting privileges from the membership, which we do not, it’s an administrative concern. |
20:49 | walterbender | I do think we owe the community a chance to comment at least |
20:49 | davelab6 | llaske: agree this is admin stuff, not material |
20:49 | pikurasa | walterbender: agreed |
20:49 | MrBIOS | walterbender: sure, we should explain what is happening, and why, as tersely as possible |
20:50 | Quozl | MrBIOS: would you like to move a motion to form a 503(c)3 with the intent of moving sugar labs resources, infrastructure, and funds into it? |
20:50 | llaske | Just a message on our website relayed to the list will be enough |
20:50 | Quozl | ... our discussion here is also an announcement, don't forget. |
20:51 | MrBIOS | Quozl: sure. I move that we form a 501(c)3 non-profit organization, with the intent of moving sugar labs resources, infrastructure, and funds to said new organization, with the ultimate goal being termination of the existing agreement between Sugar Labs and the SFC |
20:51 | walterbender | but the meeting agenda did not make it clear that this was being discussed |
20:51 | pikurasa | Quozl: yes, so can we have a plan in place by Monday and announce on list on Monday |
20:51 | ? | |
20:51 | davelab6 | Re "we have the option to unilaterally depart at any time as long as it is to a non-profit" & "there is a mechanism for the SFC to transfer the funds held on our behalf to us, if and when we leave." Hmm. I looked into a project joining Conservancy in the past, and IIRC they don't just require that it be a non-profit that it be a non-profit dedicated to guarding the software freedom of a project. |
20:51 | walterbender | so I fear some good input from the community is lacking |
20:51 | davelab6 | THey dont want to see a project move to a 501c6 and then stop making libre releases, and doing private development and binary only releases |
20:51 | MrBIOS | davelab6: I discussed this face to face with Bradley |
20:51 | when I was at SCaLE | |
20:52 | he was not concerned | |
20:52 | Quozl | walterbender: be chair. |
20:52 | walterbender | I see no conflict with FOSS. It certainly should be in our charter |
20:52 | MrBIOS | davelab6: correct, we don’t want to be a 501(c)6, so it’s a non-issue |
20:52 | walterbender | Let me sum up |
20:52 | pikurasa | Maybe we could motion to communicate our intent to community by end of next week (or so)? |
20:52 | walterbender | (1) MrBIOS will perhaps make a motion |
20:52 | Quozl | walterbender: we have a motion proposed above. |
20:53 | MrBIOS | walterbender: way ahead of you |
20:53 | walterbender | OK. I second that motion |
20:53 | Quozl | yay. |
20:53 | +1 | |
20:53 | MrBIOS | anyone else in favor or against? |
20:53 | walterbender | Quozl, I misread you earlier |
20:53 | +1 from me | |
20:53 | samsongoddy | +1 |
20:53 | pikurasa | +1 |
20:53 | llaske | +1 |
20:54 | MrBIOS | okay, what about Claudia? Walter, can you contact her? |
20:54 | walterbender | I will contact her |
20:54 | MrBIOS | this decision should be unanimous, if possible. |
20:54 | walterbender | and I will help pikurasa compose a letter to the community |
20:54 | and to the SFC | |
20:54 | MrBIOS | great. Can we agree to review that letter on the SLOB mailing list, prior to it being sent out? |
20:54 | walterbender | which we can send out after we get Claudia's vote |
20:55 | pikurasa | walterbender: I appreciate that, especially with shorter timeframe. |
20:55 | walterbender | MrBIOS, yes, of course |
20:55 | llaske | +1 MrBIOS |
20:55 | Quozl | MrBIOS: by the way, thanks for your text message at 6:07am, but it had no effect, my devices are all off when i sleep. |
20:55 | MrBIOS | I figured I’d try :) |
20:56 | llaske | I think there is nothing urgent, if it's not ready this week it could be next week |
20:56 | MrBIOS | We should definitely at least engage with and acknowledge receipt of transmission from the SFC post-haste. |
20:56 | walterbender | pikurasa, let's find a time to talk... my weekend is pretty flexible, |
20:56 | MrBIOS | pikurasa, I assume you will do that and have no problem doing so? |
20:56 | pikurasa | There is a little urgency as we should announce to community soon. |
20:57 | yes, fine to do it. | |
20:57 | walterbender | pikurasa, can we chat by phone right after the meeting? |
20:57 | pikurasa | This weekend is busy for me, so I cannot waste much time and do appreciate help. |
20:57 | davelab6 | MrBIOS: good to hear bradley was not concerned |
20:57 | pikurasa | walterbender: yes |
20:57 | walterbender | anything else we need to discuss? 3 minutes remaining? |
20:57 | samsongoddy | Pycon |
20:58 | walterbender | #topic pycon |
20:58 | MrBIOS | yes, Pycon, briefly. |
20:58 | davelab6 | I expect Conservancy probably wants to see a draft of the SL 501c6 charter, and have ssoftware freedom in there |
20:58 | MrBIOS | We will be having a couple more “open space” meet-ups |
20:58 | samsongoddy | https://photos.app.goo.gl/uG7118XhK72PKmG5A |
20:58 | MrBIOS | davelab6: c3, not c6 |
20:58 | davelab6 | MrBIOS: c3 even better |
20:58 | MrBIOS | but yes. |
20:58 | davelab6 | MrBIOS: agree should be unanimous |
20:59 | Quozl | samsongoddy: did you catch the names of those present? anyone we know? |
20:59 | samsongoddy | some people from OLPC |
20:59 | MrBIOS | Quozl: we also shared with everyone that the mailing list is the place to be. |
21:00 | samsongoddy | We got some potential contributors |
21:00 | MrBIOS | Yes, there were at least two people who had formerly worked for OLPC, incuding Mel |
21:00 | Quozl | good. |
21:00 | samsongoddy | Jeff is interested in rebooting sugar |
21:00 | MrBIOS | there is still interest :) |
21:00 | and we’re not done yet | |
21:01 | walterbender | Does he still run his python group? |
21:01 | MrBIOS | there are two more days here |
21:01 | samsongoddy | Yes |
21:01 | walterbender | ^Jeff |
21:01 | samsongoddy | He brought the kids |
21:01 | MrBIOS | walterbender: he has students under his wing he is pushing our direction |
21:01 | he brought 13 kids | |
21:01 | walterbender | great... tell him I am in DC all the time and am happy to help with a reboot in person |
21:01 | samsongoddy | It is strange when I call people my age kids |
21:01 | lol | |
21:01 | MrBIOS | cool, we will do so. He was also at the education summit yesterday. |
21:02 | and spoke | |
21:02 | anyways, we have another open space meet up to go see if anyone is showing up for, so we should probably wrap things up | |
21:02 | thank you all for your time, and I hope this begins a new chapter for Sugar Labs. | |
21:02 | Quozl | neat. |
21:03 | samsongoddy | Great conference so far |
21:03 | llaske | Thanks to you |
21:03 | pikurasa | Thank you |
21:03 | MrBIOS | our pleasure :) |
21:03 | samsongoddy has quit IRC | |
21:04 | walterbender | thanks all |
21:04 | ending the meeting | |
21:04 | #end-meeting | |
21:04 | pikurasa | Ok, thanks for the meeting |
21:04 | meeting | Meeting ended Fri May 3 21:04:28 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4) |
21:04 | Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-03T20:07:11.html | |
21:04 | Log: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]19-05-03T20:07:11 | |
21:05 | davelab6 | thanks all |
21:05 | pikurasa has quit IRC | |
21:05 | davelab6 | glad to see the motion happen and get votes |
21:05 | "we can actually buy commercial books without ideological objections" <-- any public links to understand that? | |
21:06 | Quozl | davelab6: no, we have not published bradley's replies. |
21:06 | davelab6: the motion is on our wiki. it's research into children's web site design. | |
21:06 | callaurrea <callaurrea!~webchatrev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting | |
21:07 | davelab6 | okay cool |
21:07 | Quozl | davelab6: briefly, bradley used a term of employment to escape having to comply with our request to purchase. |
21:07 | davelab6 | mmm |
21:07 | MrBIOS: "was cleaved off from OLPC for a reason (autonomy)" well yes but that was a LONNNNGGGGG time ago LOL | |
21:07 | Quozl | davelab6: the term of employment grants any of them the right to not do something if it supports closed source licensing. |
21:08 | davelab6 | What kind of entity is OLPC these days? |
21:08 | its a regular LLC company in Miami? | |
21:08 | 501c6? 501c3? | |
21:08 | MrBIOS | davelab6: c3 |
21:08 | Quozl | davelab6: OLPC, Inc. non-profit. MrBIOS captured the details, and I'm supposed to know, but I don't have them handy. I'm in contact with the directors. |
21:08 | callaurrea | Hi.. the MoE from Japan was at MIT |
21:09 | sorry the meeting run late and I just got to my office | |
21:09 | questions about Music Blocks | |
21:09 | Quozl | callaurrea: we've finished our meeting. some have left. |
21:09 | callaurrea | Quozl: I imagined |
21:09 | was reading log | |
21:09 | Quozl | walterbender: ^ callaurrea. |
21:10 | callaurrea | I did not get the chance to talk to the minister one to one |
21:10 | llaske has quit IRC | |
21:10 | MrBIOS | vote? :D |
21:10 | davelab6 | if OLPC is a c3, joining them seems interesting to me |
21:10 | callaurrea | but in the quesitons I received today in prep there was a question about Music Blocks |
21:10 | davelab6 | my sense is the perception has 3 layers |
21:11 | walterbender | callaurrea, I set email |
21:12 | davelab6 | there is a large (500M people?) global public who remember the Kofi Annan little green machine and "OLPC" and then dont remember anything after that |
21:13 | there is a smaller (25M people?) who not only remember it, but have sense that "it failed" | |
21:13 | callaurrea | walterbender: is this about the 501(c)3 |
21:13 | walterbender | callaurrea, yes... we'd like your vote |
21:13 | davelab6, I discussed this with Quozl | |
21:13 | davelab6 | and then a tiny hardcore, maybe 1M people, who recognize Sugar software is still developed, because they see it in their GNU desktop packaging repos and they have kids or whatever |
21:14 | walterbender | and it is not clear that it is in OLPC's interest |
21:14 | davelab6 | and then there's a nucleus which is active sugar community members |
21:14 | MrBIOS | walterbender: Kevin Cole is here with us, of the former DC club |
21:14 | callaurrea | +1 from me |
21:14 | davelab6 | which is like 1k people tops |
21:14 | walterbender | Hi to Kevin |
21:14 | davelab6 | all the people who do GSOC and Github stuff |
21:14 | walterbender | thanks callaurrea |
21:14 | callaurrea | We do have one with friends from Colombia |
21:15 | walterbender | maybe you can send your vote by email to SLOB so it is recorded. |
21:15 | callaurrea | it takes time to get the status (In Mass)... |
21:15 | davelab6 | walterbender: okay then :) |
21:15 | walterbender: my sense is that the OLPC brand is more valuable than the Sugar brand | |
21:15 | walterbender | davelab6, that said, we want them to keep using/promoting/supporting Sugar |
21:15 | callaurrea | I will do that, walterbender |
21:15 | walterbender | davelab6, yes... much more valuable |
21:16 | davelab6 | walterbender: sure, but having them as a top tier downstream is not the same as merging sugar back into olcp |
21:16 | walterbender | and they are paying Quozl to maintain Sugar |
21:16 | which is very important to us. | |
21:16 | davelab6 | walterbender: i would say that since OLPC is a 501c3 and SL is going to become a 501c3, sugar becoming part of olpc again makes sense at a high level, to me |
21:17 | walterbender: everyone loves a old brand being revitalized | |
21:17 | walterbender: | |
21:17 | walterbender | As I said in the meeting, we need to get similar embedded developers in other important communities... most likely volunteers. |
21:18 | davelab6, I will send a note to the Zamoras to let them know what we are up to in any case. | |
21:18 | davelab6 | walterbender: Chuck Taylor high-top sneakers & Converse brand |
21:19 | walterbender: marvel, old spice, nintendo, target... | |
21:19 | so | |
21:19 | that is my #1 recommendation | |
21:19 | walterbender | I had all of those the first time around. |
21:19 | davelab6 | join olpc 501c3 |
21:20 | walterbender: :D | |
21:20 | my #2 is to go it alone | |
21:20 | i think SL community is big enough to sustain that | |
21:20 | and the 'tax' as lionel put it, or a 'tithe' as you said, that is charged by an umbrella may not be worth it compared to the cost of going solo | |
21:21 | walterbender | I don't care about the 10% one way or another. |
21:22 | davelab6 | i think less than 10% of the total revenue goes into admin if SL goes solo |
21:22 | walterbender | noise |
21:22 | davelab6 | sure |
21:22 | i guess my employer has rules on this stuff | |
21:23 | but if i am able, i may be willing to stand for the c3 thing | |
21:23 | i assume there will be a community election | |
21:23 | of candidates | |
21:23 | walterbender | yes... |
21:23 | davelab6 | i am not paying too much attention to email |
21:23 | but i will try to join these meetings and keep tabs on this stuff | |
21:24 | walterbender | thx |
21:24 | davelab6 | from time to time i have an IM chat with samson or MrBIOS |
21:24 | everyone, feel free to ping me if you pass thru NYC :D | |
21:25 | davelab6 has quit IRC | |
21:29 | Quozl | if sfc requires software freedom in charter, that makes olpc much less an opportunity. |
21:36 | callaurrea has quit IRC | |
21:39 | qwebirc31525 <qwebirc31525!27280245gateway/web/freenode/ip.39.40.2.69> has joined #sugar-meeting | |
21:44 | walterbender | Quozl, good point... that was the point originally |
21:44 | Quozl | ... but i never thought it would stop us from buying a book. ;-) |
21:45 | walterbender | Quozl, I will let the Zamoras know what we are doing once it is a bit more clear, as a courtesy |
21:45 | is not going there... | |
21:45 | Quozl | i've primed the most involved of the zamoras. |
21:45 | walterbender | thx |
21:46 | sent everyone a draft of a letter for Devin to send to Karen | |
21:50 | Quozl | we have such enthusiasm to fix this problem, it is most heartening. ;-) |
21:50 | walterbender | hopefully the enthusiasm will become contagious |
21:51 | better to catch Sugar than the measles. | |
21:57 | Quozl | heh. for us down under it's influenza. massive spike early in season. we have no idea if it is just a spike or it will keep growing. i suspect it is heatwave related; more people inside air conditioning. |
21:58 | walterbender: http://blog.laptop.org/2019/05[…]e-way-down-under/ | |
21:58 | walterbender | nice |
22:22 | MrBIOS has quit IRC |
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