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#sugar-meeting, 2019-05-03

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Time Nick Message
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19:50 MrBIOS re
19:50 walterbender <walterbender!~walter@> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:51 MrBIOS walterbender: heya
19:51 llaske hi all
19:51 walterbender hi
19:52 MrBIOS Hi guys! Samson and I are just getting set up in a space we believe will be available for a while.
19:53 walterbender OK
19:53 llaske Nice
19:54 samsongoddy <samsongoddy!~samsongod@> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:56 MrBIOS We had a very successful first meet-up, which rolled to nearly two hours.
19:56 in the “open space” rooms you can self-book here
19:57 Samson took some photos and a brief video.
19:57 pikurasa I will be back in 5 min
19:57 MrBIOS The Education Summit yesterday was great and we met a lot of smart and intelligent folks, and did a “mini sprint” and some networking later in the day.
19:59 We are doing another open space after this meeting, whenever that is
19:59 walterbender: any idea if Claudia will be able to attend?
20:01 pikurasa back
20:02 MrBIOS Quozl: you here? :)
20:05 walterbender no idea
20:06 MrBIOS and James?
20:06 walterbender no idea about that either
20:06 didn't hear one way or another from either...
20:06 MrBIOS sigh
20:06 walterbender but maybe we can get started on a few informational items while we wait?
20:07 so as to ensure this is logged...
20:07 #start-meeting
20:07 meeting Meeting started Fri May  3 20:07:11 2019 UTC. The chair is walterbender. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:07 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
20:07 walterbender I assume Quozl will take over when he arrives
20:07 #topic GSoC
20:07 Just a quick update.
20:07 We accepted 9 students for the summer.
20:08 We cannot make any public announcement until May 6 about whom we accepted
20:08 pikurasa Great
20:08 walterbender but rest assured that it is a talented bunch with strong proposals
20:08 samsongoddy Yeah
20:08 MrBIOS great :)
20:08 walterbender and strong mentorship teams.
20:08 samsongoddy I agree
20:08 pikurasa What about GSo Docs? I do not remember hearing about that...
20:09 walterbender I'll be organizing a weekly -- public -- mentor meeting -- probably on Mondays this year.
20:09 and will expect the individual mentor teams to report to the dev list at least 1x per week.
20:10 On the 6th, I will send out an email with the details to the community.
20:10 Thanks to everyone who helped with the org this year, esp. Rahul, who was very attentive to the details.
20:10 #topic GSoD
20:10 Alas, we were not accepted into Google Season of Documentation
20:11 pikurasa Was there a reason stated?
20:11 MrBIOS we can always try again next year
20:11 walterbender This comes as no surprise, since we had no project ideas on our proposal site.
20:11 pikurasa I see
20:11 walterbender We will do better next year, since we know it is coming.
20:11 MrBIOS I personally believe we have enough spinning plates right now, and the timing just isn’t right
20:11 right
20:11 llaske +1 MrBIOS
20:12 walterbender I for one was caught up in GSoC and lacked the bandwidth to egg on the community.
20:12 #topic Kano
20:13 The Kano workshop was a success from what I hear. I am meeting (by Hangouts) with the team next week to talk about next steps.
20:13 MrBIOS cool, would be great to know how many attendees there were, and get any photos available
20:13 walterbender That will include more school engagement and a longer term series of projects.
20:13 I asked that they post to the list with the photos. I will ask again.
20:14 samsongoddy They did
20:14 I shared them with you
20:14 walterbender I don't know the actual numbers... I think they were modest, but this was just the first step.
20:14 Yes, samsongoddy, I saw the photos, but I don't feel comfortable sharing w/o permission
20:15 Esp. picture of children.
20:15 samsongoddy Yes, that is true
20:15 walterbender But looks like they had fun. Lots of emph. on the more game-like activities in the introductory workshop.
20:16 MrBIOS Quozl: ping double ping
20:16 walterbender Anyway, that is all from me re updates.
20:16 pikurasa was this led by samsongoddy?
20:16 samsongoddy I was away from the country
20:16 walterbender MrBIOS, Maybe you can start off the discussion about life post SFC?
20:16 Quozl, and Claudia can read the backlog
20:17 MrBIOS sure. First, can everyone reply in the affirmative that they have rully read the e-mail from Karen at SFC?
20:17 samsongoddy Yes, I did.
20:17 walterbender +1
20:17 pikurasa yes
20:17 llaske +1
20:17 MrBIOS ok, thanks
20:17 Quozl morning, failed to set alarm.
20:17 MrBIOS no worries, glad you’re with us
20:17 walterbender Hi Quozl ...
20:17 llaske Hi Quozl
20:17 samsongoddy Hi
20:18 pikurasa 4/25, correct?
20:18 walterbender handing over the baton...
20:18 Quozl i'm not awake enough to have the baton, can you keep it?
20:18 pikurasa (actually, now that I search I see that there is a separate email that I filtered out. REading this other one now...)
20:18 MrBIOS So, it’s clear SFC is done with us, and I think it’s a good time to end our relationship with them as amicably as possible. We must now decide our future.
20:19 pikurasa reads "a new chapter"
20:19 llaske I'm questioning about the form of SugarLabs organisation without SFC
20:20 MrBIOS I am personally in favor of Sugar Labs becoming a stand-alone 501(c)3 non-profit, here in the US. I am willing to put significant time and effort into making this happen, and there is a mechanism for the SFC to transfer the funds held on our behalf to us, if and when we leave.
20:20 llaske It's mentioned here https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs
20:20 walterbender we need to either find a new home or create one.
20:20 llaske that SugarLabs is just a project of SFC
20:20 walterbender a bit of history...
20:20 MrBIOS llaske:  correct, and SFC wishes to terminate that agreement
20:20 pikurasa finished
20:20 walterbender when I spun Sugar Labs outside of OLPC in 2008 we needed a home.
20:20 llaske So SugarLabs doesn't exist as an organization today
20:21 MrBIOS correct, we are not a legal entity
20:21 walterbender Eben Moglen is one of the people I went to for advice
20:21 MrBIOS SFC exists to be an umbrella organization for open source projects
20:21 walterbender he steered my to SFC rather than creating a stand-alone entity
20:21 we have the option to unilaterally depart at any time as long as it is to a non-profit
20:22 and they have asked us to exercise that option
20:22 MrBIOS correct, and there is precedence for this with SFC.
20:22 other projects have done it
20:22 walterbender but we are still part of the SFC until we move on...
20:22 pikurasa IMHO, the downside to going our own is the burden of resources (time, money); the upside is autonomy
20:22 walterbender the quesiton is to we try to join another umbrella, e.g., SPI, or another non-profit, e.g., OLPC, or stand alone.
20:23 MrBIOS pikurasa:  yes, it’s certainly a double edged sword.
20:23 walterbender same double-edged sword as 2008
20:23 MrBIOS yes, here we are again, eleven years later.
20:23 llaske May be we could pay to have professional advice on it
20:23 pikurasa Does anyone hear actually know what is involved to create one's own 503c?
20:23 walterbender do you have anyone in mind?
20:24 MrBIOS pikurasa: yes, I have done extensive research prior to this for other reasons
20:24 walterbender I've done it before...
20:24 MrBIOS it’s not complicated
20:24 Quozl continues to listen
20:24 walterbender it is not so much work
20:24 but it is not guaranteed
20:24 pikurasa With the budget that we have already, is there a big burden for our first year?
20:24 walterbender and it is open-ended as to when we become official
20:24 MrBIOS pikurasa: no, it could be done for under a thousand dollars, if need be.
20:24 pikurasa (because I have heard people suggest that it is not so difficult if our revenue is low)
20:25 MrBIOS it can be fast-tracked in a few weeks
20:25 walterbender the accounting burden is minimal given our current burnrate
20:25 MrBIOS, the application can be fast-tracked, ye
20:25 but we have not way to ensure that the decision will be fast=tracked
20:25 MrBIOS correct
20:25 walterbender could take a few months or a few years
20:26 pikurasa Yes, it seems to me that with our current level of activity, there is not so much administrative work, which would give us time to prepare for growth.
20:26 MrBIOS walterbender: it’s very, _very_ unikely for it to take that long these days
20:26 maybe two or three months, max
20:26 walterbender the question is, what is our goal for growth.
20:26 MrBIOS, that is great
20:27 Quozl i would further constrain any goal to what we are willing to do.
20:27 walterbender and does out goal for growth impact on this decision
20:27 MrBIOS Quozl: of course
20:27 llaske Is there any question regarding Licence, because licences mention "SugarLabs", so it means SFC today ?
20:27 walterbender the license would transfer to us
20:27 pikurasa llaske: trademark?
20:27 MrBIOS llaske: if you read the SFC agreement, it’s all laid out
20:27 that is frankly something you should have read when you became a board member
20:28 Quozl can't remember everything.
20:28 MrBIOS right, it’s dense
20:28 but that agreement is clear
20:28 Quozl we also stop losing tax to sfc.
20:28 llaske To be honest I thought SugarLabs was an organisation under the umbrella of SFC
20:28 walterbender yes... we get out tithe back
20:28 MrBIOS llaske: we are, but we are not a legal entity, SFC is
20:28 llaske Like OLPC France is an organisation
20:28 MrBIOS llaske: we don’t have the same legal system.
20:28 llaske Ok I got it
20:29 pikurasa Being a legal entity means the entity can accept and make payments, etc
20:29 MrBIOS and be taxed :)
20:29 pikurasa which is autonomy
20:29 MrBIOS: yes, we then bow to the government (rather than another org)
20:29 walterbender In my mind, the significant advantage to not going our own is potential synergy with some other org.
20:29 MrBIOS yes, and we can actually buy commercial books without ideological objections.
20:29 walterbender we never really got synergy with SFC
20:30 llaske I was president of OLPC France organisation. I know :-)
20:30 pikurasa I think walterbender brings up a great point here
20:30 llaske +1 MrBIOS, I don't understand this objection
20:30 walterbender and probably we can get synergy w/o being joined at the hip with others
20:30 pikurasa If there is opportunity for synergy, then it would be worth joining another existing entity
20:30 llaske Is there other equivalent to SFC ?
20:31 MrBIOS llaske: to me, it’s an extremist position, which I find sad, and a perfect example of why we simply do not align sufficiently.
20:31 pikurasa llaske: FSF was mentioned
20:31 MrBIOS the FSF is an option, however Bradley also serves as a member of the FSF Board
20:31 walterbender SPI is prob. closest to SFC
20:31 llaske FSF make sense in my opinion
20:31 pikurasa walterbender: what is SPI?
20:31 Quozl in australia we have a lesser status entity called an association, which i'm very familiar with, which sounds a little like a 503c.  what is the burden on the directors?  should we be acquiring professional liability insurance for our directing?
20:31 MrBIOS llaske: they are even worse zealots, unfortunately
20:31 walterbender https://www.spi-inc.org/
20:31 software in the public interest
20:32 https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/
20:32 looks like us
20:32 and I have heard good things
20:32 llaske MrBIOS, yes you're right. But it's a good message that SugarLabs is FLOSS
20:32 MrBIOS SPI is a viable potential option, however to me, it’s not clear what the benefit of going to SPI actually is
20:32 walterbender I agree... I am very much leaning towards the stand alone model
20:33 MrBIOS llaske: agreed, but I personally think we can advertise that more explicitly, and be closer with the FSF, if we choose to do so, without having them be our fiscal sponsor.
20:33 pikurasa OLPC was another option
20:33 MrBIOS Them objecting to buying a non-free book is quite likely
20:33 OLPC is a non-starter to me
20:33 pikurasa MrBIOS: why?
20:33 MrBIOS Sugar Labs has been independent, and was cleaved off from OLPC for a reason (autonomy)
20:33 pikurasa interested in knowing why
20:33 walterbender and then looking more aggressively for partnerships, such as RPi, Canotical, etc. all of whom have expressed interest in the past.
20:34 MrBIOS pikurasa: with OLPC, there is zero guarantee they will exist in the future. What happens then, if they go under?
20:34 walterbender James can speak to the current OLPC situation. My datapoints are very old
20:34 MrBIOS james? Your turn
20:34 pikurasa MrBIOS: that would be unfortunate... for both groups
20:35 MrBIOS pikurasa: I would personally like to see us promote suger much more aggressively outside the context of OLPC
20:35 attempts to do so have been made in the past.
20:35 llaske Quozl, Australian concept of association look similar to the concept of association in France.
20:35 samsongoddy I think it wouldn't be a good idea to join OLPC if we are trying to make Sugar for every device
20:35 It is just bad PR
20:36 MrBIOS there are many, MANY people who see OLPC as a complete failure
20:36 hitching our cart to that wagon seems unwise.
20:36 samsongoddy We are struggling with users outside OLPC because people still think Sugar == OLPC
20:36 llaske +1 samsongoddy MrBIOS
20:36 walterbender OLPC rocks... but there is a perception problem
20:36 MrBIOS I think we all agree there
20:36 pikurasa There is a lot of bad press on OLPC, especially in US
20:36 walterbender I do think we need a Quozl equiv at each potential partner
20:37 samsongoddy We had some here at pycon
20:37 walterbender but this is a different discussion
20:37 samsongoddy I feel what Sugar Labs needs is to be standalone
20:37 Quozl bad press needs good press to push back with, but olpc doesn't have enough people working on that.  lately, it's me.  ;-)
20:37 MrBIOS correct, we have to agree how to proceed next, urgently.
20:37 samsongoddy It will give us the ability to reboot
20:38 walterbender sang its praises at Open edX
20:38 samsongoddy and grow on our terms
20:38 pikurasa I am fine with the idea of standalone.
20:38 MrBIOS yes, if we think of this as a decade+ long reboot of Sugar Labs, I think we can accomplish great things, including making Rpi3+ available with Sugar by default.
20:38 it could even be a revenue stream for us
20:38 samsongoddy +1
20:38 walterbender I don't see the down side... if it doesn't work out, we can investigate finding a new partner org
20:38 samsongoddy OSI
20:38 pikurasa And I know how to do my own book-keeping (both fortunately and unfortunately)
20:39 walterbender :)
20:39 Quozl we already have rpi3+ available with sugar, it's called soas.
20:39 MrBIOS Quozl: I am well aware
20:39 walterbender Quozl, yes... but we don't have a champion pushing it in their community
20:39 MrBIOS but it’s not a “complete” solution
20:39 it’s not a product
20:39 llaske I guess as independant organisation we need to create something different that SLOB for governance?
20:39 MrBIOS it’s an amalgamation of components
20:40 walterbender llaske, we will need officers
20:40 but we will also need a board
20:40 MrBIOS llaske: yes, and in the US, three named positions (president, secretary, and treasurer)
20:40 walterbender and a community
20:40 MrBIOS yes, and the community, which we will bring along
20:40 davelab6 <davelab6!~webchat@rev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:40 llaske Quozl: and another product called Sugarizer :-)
20:40 walterbender davelab6, welcome
20:41 davelab6 hello
20:41 sorry i am 40 mins late lmao
20:41 Quozl llaske: is there enough synergy between sugarizer and sugar for you to stay with us?
20:41 MrBIOS so, I am willing to be one of those three named individuals, of a potential Sugar Labs 501(c)3. Is anyone else?
20:41 llaske It's a question for all of us :-)
20:41 davelab6 (started reading http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]etings/2019-05-03 now)
20:42 walterbender was about to paste the link for you :P
20:42 Quozl MrBIOS: thanks for looking into this.  i'm unwilling to be a 501(c)3 named individual.  but i've no other objection to the rest of you forming a 501(c)3 or to contributing to it in some way.
20:42 walterbender I will be willing as well
20:42 MrBIOS Quozl: that’s fine, I figured that would be the case, but that is not really any sort of problem/impediment, you can still serve on a board.
20:42 llaske Same for me Quozl
20:42 MrBIOS same goes for you, llaske  :)
20:43 pikurasa Okay, I am now leaning for: "expecting some pain, but we can go standalone and learn along the way." I don't think we will "fail" (gotta' be positive)
20:43 Quozl i'm hard pressed to understand each legal system.  ;-)
20:43 pikurasa Whatever we do, we need to clue in the community.
20:43 MrBIOS correct
20:43 Quozl what funds are needed to take this option?
20:43 pikurasa And give them some opportunity to petition/feedback (whatever we call it)
20:43 MrBIOS Quozl: probably under $1,000
20:43 davelab6 "can everyone reply in the affirmative that they have rully read the e-mail from Karen at SFC?" <-- anyone got a link handy, if that email is archived publicly?
20:43 MrBIOS you can form the actual entity, with expedited priority, for $400-500
20:43 Quozl MrBIOS: does sfc allow these funds to come from sugar labs cache?
20:44 MrBIOS davelab6: I do not belive it is
20:44 llaske MrBIOS oh really ? It's free in France!
20:44 Quozl davelab6: it is not public.
20:44 MrBIOS Quozl:  I believe they would, but pikurasa should ask them that directly.
20:44 we have not yet engaged with them since Karen sent that e-mail, and we need to
20:45 pikurasa MrBIOS: it sounds like you have some time and energy to spearhead this. Do you want to do that?
20:45 Quozl if we can't get the funds for this from sfc, are you willing to put the funds up and be reimbursed by the new org once they have fingers on the big pie?
20:45 walterbender davelab6, the gist of the email was that Karen thinks it is time to go our separate ways and wishes us good luck.
20:45 MrBIOS pikurasa: when you say “this” do you mean reaching out to SFC regarding the exit process?
20:45 if so, yes
20:45 pikurasa MrBIOS: Outline a plan and send to SLOBs. Then I can send to community.
20:45 walterbender will chip in.
20:45 MrBIOS Quozl: yes, I am happy to self-finance this if necessary
20:45 pikurasa MrBIOS: I will communicate with SFC
20:45 MrBIOS pikurasa: ok good
20:45 pikurasa I am "Mr Patient"
20:46 Quozl davelab6: the trigger for the mail was my emotional response to walter's private dealings with ibiam, which has since been well explained as didn't think it was necessary to explain, which i'm happy with.
20:46 walterbender I am not sure if we need to hold a community referendum or if we decide this as SLOBs
20:46 MrBIOS I think it will be easier to just charge it to a personal credit card and then ask for reimbursement from the new organization, once funds have transferred, unless anyone has a problem with that.
20:46 walterbender what is your take Quozl ?
20:46 pikurasa walterbender: It seemed like SFC was really tipping the scale--that the conclusion is foregone
20:46 Quozl davelab6: as in sfc queried why ibiam's reimbursement was being paid to walter.
20:47 pikurasa so I did not sense we have much of a "choice" from SFC's POV
20:47 MrBIOS to be clear, no actions will be taken without full board motion/approvals
20:47 davelab6 walterbender: gist understood
20:47 walterbender MrBIOS, Is that enough or do we need a community vote as well?
20:47 MrBIOS IMHO SFC’s reimbursement policies are simply too inflexible, and this seems to have been a problem for years.
20:48 walterbender I am willing to take the blame, not being a patient person.
20:48 Quozl i don't think we can fully and honestly explain the problem with sfc to the community without also explaining our incapacity to coordinate and make decisions openly.  ;-)
20:48 MrBIOS Quozl: I generally argree, although I think we’ve been elected to act in the best interest of Sugar Labs
20:48 pikurasa I am happy to create an email to community, but...
20:49 davelab6 MrBIOS: agree their reimbursement model was not a good fit
20:49 pikurasa I would like an outline of a plan, so as to not leave people hanging.
20:49 llaske I think SLOB decision is enough. It's just an administrative issue finally
20:49 MrBIOS unless we intend to remove voting privileges from the membership, which we do not, it’s an administrative concern.
20:49 walterbender I do think we owe the community a chance to comment at least
20:49 davelab6 llaske: agree this is admin stuff, not material
20:49 pikurasa walterbender: agreed
20:49 MrBIOS walterbender: sure, we should explain what is happening, and why, as tersely as possible
20:50 Quozl MrBIOS: would you like to move a motion to form a 503(c)3 with the intent of moving sugar labs resources, infrastructure, and funds into it?
20:50 llaske Just a message on our website relayed to the list will be enough
20:50 Quozl ... our discussion here is also an announcement, don't forget.
20:51 MrBIOS Quozl:  sure. I move that we form a 501(c)3 non-profit organization, with the intent of moving sugar labs resources, infrastructure, and funds to said new organization, with the ultimate goal being termination of the existing agreement between Sugar Labs and the SFC
20:51 walterbender but the meeting agenda did not make it clear that this was being discussed
20:51 pikurasa Quozl: yes, so can we have a plan in place by Monday and announce on list on Monday
20:51 ?
20:51 davelab6 Re "we have the option to unilaterally depart at any time as long as it is to a non-profit" & "there is a mechanism for the SFC to transfer the funds held on our behalf to us, if and when we leave." Hmm. I looked into a project joining Conservancy in the past, and IIRC they don't just require that it be a non-profit that it be a non-profit dedicated to guarding the software freedom of a project.
20:51 walterbender so I fear some good input from the community is lacking
20:51 davelab6 THey dont want to see a project move to a 501c6 and then stop making libre releases, and doing private development and binary only releases
20:51 MrBIOS davelab6: I discussed this face to face with Bradley
20:51 when I was at SCaLE
20:52 he was not concerned
20:52 Quozl walterbender: be chair.
20:52 walterbender I see no conflict with FOSS. It certainly should be in our charter
20:52 MrBIOS davelab6: correct, we don’t want to be a 501(c)6, so it’s a non-issue
20:52 walterbender Let me sum up
20:52 pikurasa Maybe we could motion to communicate our intent to community by end of next week (or so)?
20:52 walterbender (1) MrBIOS will perhaps make a motion
20:52 Quozl walterbender: we have a motion proposed above.
20:53 MrBIOS walterbender: way ahead of you
20:53 walterbender OK. I second that motion
20:53 Quozl yay.
20:53 +1
20:53 MrBIOS anyone else in favor or against?
20:53 walterbender Quozl, I misread you earlier
20:53 +1 from me
20:53 samsongoddy +1
20:53 pikurasa +1
20:53 llaske +1
20:54 MrBIOS okay, what about Claudia? Walter, can you contact her?
20:54 walterbender I will contact her
20:54 MrBIOS this decision should be unanimous, if possible.
20:54 walterbender and I will help pikurasa compose a letter to the community
20:54 and to the SFC
20:54 MrBIOS great. Can we agree to review that letter on the SLOB mailing list, prior to it being sent out?
20:54 walterbender which we can send out after we get Claudia's vote
20:55 pikurasa walterbender: I appreciate that, especially with shorter timeframe.
20:55 walterbender MrBIOS, yes, of course
20:55 llaske +1 MrBIOS
20:55 Quozl MrBIOS: by the way, thanks for your text message at 6:07am, but it had no effect, my devices are all off when i sleep.
20:55 MrBIOS I figured I’d try :)
20:56 llaske I think there is nothing urgent, if it's not ready this week it could be next week
20:56 MrBIOS We should definitely at least engage with and acknowledge receipt of transmission from the SFC post-haste.
20:56 walterbender pikurasa, let's find a time to talk... my weekend is pretty flexible,
20:56 MrBIOS pikurasa, I assume you will do that and have no problem doing so?
20:56 pikurasa There is a little urgency as we should announce to community soon.
20:57 yes, fine to do it.
20:57 walterbender pikurasa, can we chat by phone right after the meeting?
20:57 pikurasa This weekend is busy for me, so I cannot waste much time and do appreciate help.
20:57 davelab6 MrBIOS: good to hear bradley was not concerned
20:57 pikurasa walterbender: yes
20:57 walterbender anything else we need to discuss? 3 minutes remaining?
20:57 samsongoddy Pycon
20:58 walterbender #topic pycon
20:58 MrBIOS yes, Pycon, briefly.
20:58 davelab6 I expect Conservancy probably wants to see a draft of the SL 501c6 charter, and have ssoftware freedom in there
20:58 MrBIOS We will be having a couple more “open space” meet-ups
20:58 samsongoddy https://photos.app.goo.gl/uG7118XhK72PKmG5A
20:58 MrBIOS davelab6: c3, not c6
20:58 davelab6 MrBIOS: c3 even better
20:58 MrBIOS but yes.
20:58 davelab6 MrBIOS: agree should be unanimous
20:59 Quozl samsongoddy: did you catch the names of those present?  anyone we know?
20:59 samsongoddy some people from OLPC
20:59 MrBIOS Quozl:  we also shared with everyone that the mailing list is the place to be.
21:00 samsongoddy We got some potential contributors
21:00 MrBIOS Yes, there were at least two people who had formerly worked for OLPC, incuding Mel
21:00 Quozl good.
21:00 samsongoddy Jeff is interested in rebooting sugar
21:00 MrBIOS there is still interest :)
21:00 and we’re not done yet
21:01 walterbender Does he still run his python group?
21:01 MrBIOS there are two more days here
21:01 samsongoddy Yes
21:01 walterbender ^Jeff
21:01 samsongoddy He brought the kids
21:01 MrBIOS walterbender: he has students under his wing he is pushing our direction
21:01 he brought 13 kids
21:01 walterbender great... tell him I am in DC all the time and am happy to help with a reboot in person
21:01 samsongoddy It is strange when I call people my age kids
21:01 lol
21:01 MrBIOS cool, we will do so. He was also at the education summit yesterday.
21:02 and spoke
21:02 anyways, we have another open space meet up to go see if anyone is showing up for, so we should probably wrap things up
21:02 thank you all for your time, and I hope this begins a new chapter for Sugar Labs.
21:02 Quozl neat.
21:03 samsongoddy Great conference so far
21:03 llaske Thanks to you
21:03 pikurasa Thank you
21:03 MrBIOS our pleasure :)
21:03 samsongoddy has quit IRC
21:04 walterbender thanks all
21:04 ending the meeting
21:04 #end-meeting
21:04 pikurasa Ok, thanks for the meeting
21:04 meeting Meeting ended Fri May  3 21:04:28 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
21:04 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-03T20:07:11.html
21:04 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]19-05-03T20:07:11
21:05 davelab6 thanks all
21:05 pikurasa has quit IRC
21:05 davelab6 glad to see the motion happen and get votes
21:05 "we can actually buy commercial books without ideological objections" <-- any public links to understand that?
21:06 Quozl davelab6: no, we have not published bradley's replies.
21:06 davelab6: the motion is on our wiki.  it's research into children's web site design.
21:06 callaurrea <callaurrea!~webchat@rev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
21:07 davelab6 okay cool
21:07 Quozl davelab6: briefly, bradley used a term of employment to escape having to comply with our request to purchase.
21:07 davelab6 mmm
21:07 MrBIOS: "was cleaved off from OLPC for a reason (autonomy)" well yes but that was a LONNNNGGGGG time ago LOL
21:07 Quozl davelab6: the term of employment grants any of them the right to not do something if it supports closed source licensing.
21:08 davelab6 What kind of entity is OLPC these days?
21:08 its a regular LLC company in Miami?
21:08 501c6? 501c3?
21:08 MrBIOS davelab6: c3
21:08 Quozl davelab6: OLPC, Inc.  non-profit.  MrBIOS captured the details, and I'm supposed to know, but I don't have them handy.  I'm in contact with the directors.
21:08 callaurrea Hi.. the MoE from Japan was at MIT
21:09 sorry the meeting run late and I just got to my office
21:09 questions about Music Blocks
21:09 Quozl callaurrea: we've finished our meeting.  some have left.
21:09 callaurrea Quozl: I imagined
21:09 was reading log
21:09 Quozl walterbender: ^ callaurrea.
21:10 callaurrea I did not get the chance to talk to the minister one to one
21:10 llaske has quit IRC
21:10 MrBIOS vote? :D
21:10 davelab6 if OLPC is a c3, joining them seems interesting to me
21:10 callaurrea but in the quesitons I received today in prep there was a question about Music Blocks
21:10 davelab6 my sense is the perception has 3 layers
21:11 walterbender callaurrea, I set email
21:12 davelab6 there is a large (500M people?) global public who remember the Kofi Annan little green machine and "OLPC" and then dont remember anything after that
21:13 there is a smaller (25M people?) who not only remember it, but have sense that "it failed"
21:13 callaurrea walterbender: is this about the 501(c)3
21:13 walterbender callaurrea, yes... we'd like your vote
21:13 davelab6, I discussed this with Quozl
21:13 davelab6 and then a tiny hardcore, maybe 1M people, who recognize Sugar software is still developed, because they see it in their GNU desktop packaging repos and they have kids or whatever
21:14 walterbender and it is not clear that it is in OLPC's interest
21:14 davelab6 and then there's a nucleus which is active sugar community members
21:14 MrBIOS walterbender: Kevin Cole is here with us, of the former DC club
21:14 callaurrea +1 from me
21:14 davelab6 which is like 1k people tops
21:14 walterbender Hi to Kevin
21:14 davelab6 all the people who do GSOC and Github stuff
21:14 walterbender thanks callaurrea
21:14 callaurrea We do have one with friends from Colombia
21:15 walterbender maybe you can send your vote by email to SLOB so it is recorded.
21:15 callaurrea it takes time to get the status (In Mass)...
21:15 davelab6 walterbender: okay then :)
21:15 walterbender: my sense is that the OLPC brand is more valuable than the Sugar brand
21:15 walterbender davelab6, that said, we want them to keep using/promoting/supporting Sugar
21:15 callaurrea I will do that, walterbender
21:15 walterbender davelab6, yes... much more valuable
21:16 davelab6 walterbender: sure, but having them as a top tier downstream is not the same as merging sugar back into olcp
21:16 walterbender and they are paying Quozl to maintain Sugar
21:16 which is very important to us.
21:16 davelab6 walterbender: i would say that since OLPC is a 501c3 and SL is going to become a 501c3, sugar becoming part of olpc again makes sense at a high level, to me
21:17 walterbender: everyone loves a old brand being revitalized
21:17 walterbender: 
21:17 walterbender As I said in the meeting, we need to get similar embedded developers in other important communities... most likely volunteers.
21:18 davelab6, I will send a note to the Zamoras to let them know what we are up to in any case.
21:18 davelab6 walterbender: Chuck Taylor high-top sneakers & Converse brand
21:19 walterbender: marvel, old spice, nintendo, target...
21:19 so
21:19 that is my #1 recommendation
21:19 walterbender I had all of those the first time around.
21:19 davelab6 join olpc 501c3
21:20 walterbender: :D
21:20 my #2 is to go it alone
21:20 i think SL community is big enough to sustain that
21:20 and the 'tax' as lionel put it, or a 'tithe' as you said, that is charged by an umbrella may not be worth it compared to the cost of going solo
21:21 walterbender I don't care about the 10% one way or another.
21:22 davelab6 i think less than 10% of the total revenue goes into admin if SL goes solo
21:22 walterbender noise
21:22 davelab6 sure
21:22 i guess my employer has rules on this stuff
21:23 but if i am able, i may be willing to stand for the c3 thing
21:23 i assume there will be a community election
21:23 of candidates
21:23 walterbender yes...
21:23 davelab6 i am not paying too much attention to email
21:23 but i will try to join these meetings and keep tabs on this stuff
21:24 walterbender thx
21:24 davelab6 from time to time i have an IM chat with samson or MrBIOS
21:24 everyone, feel free to ping me if you pass thru NYC :D
21:25 davelab6 has quit IRC
21:29 Quozl if sfc requires software freedom in charter, that makes olpc much less an opportunity.
21:36 callaurrea has quit IRC
21:39 qwebirc31525 <qwebirc31525!27280245@gateway/web/freenode/ip.> has joined #sugar-meeting
21:44 walterbender Quozl, good point... that was the point originally
21:44 Quozl ... but i never thought it would stop us from buying a book.  ;-)
21:45 walterbender Quozl, I will let the Zamoras know what we are doing once it is a bit more clear, as a courtesy
21:45 is not going there...
21:45 Quozl i've primed the most involved of the zamoras.
21:45 walterbender thx
21:46 sent everyone a draft of a letter for Devin to send to Karen
21:50 Quozl we have such enthusiasm to fix this problem, it is most heartening.  ;-)
21:50 walterbender hopefully the enthusiasm will become contagious
21:51 better to catch Sugar than the measles.
21:57 Quozl heh.  for us down under it's influenza.  massive spike early in season.  we have no idea if it is just a spike or it will keep growing.  i suspect it is heatwave related; more people inside air conditioning.
21:58 walterbender: http://blog.laptop.org/2019/05[…]e-way-down-under/
21:58 walterbender nice
22:22 MrBIOS has quit IRC

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