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#sugar-meeting, 2018-12-09

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15:00 perrie Hi
15:00 samsongoddy and MrBIOS
15:01 MrBIOS hey perrie
15:01 is still coming alive, having some coffee
15:02 it’s early today, and heavy fog, so it makes it even darker
15:02 samsongoddy <samsongoddy!~samsongod@> has joined #sugar-meeting
15:02 perrie hehehe
15:02 samsongoddy Hello
15:02 perrie sorry I couldn't show up yesterday
15:02 MrBIOS no worries
15:02 perrie hi samsongoddy
15:03 samsongoddy I am a bit tired but I am fin
15:03 *fine
15:03 Seems like the meeting bot is back
15:03 MrBIOS: Are we using it?
15:04 perrie dropped a message for you yesterday MrBIOS. to MrBIOS2 I'm guessing you didn't see it
15:04 MrBIOS perrie: I was AFK all day, it’s probably sitting on my desktop downstairs, which I haven’t touched.
15:04 perrie samsongoddy with or without is fine
15:04 I guess
15:05 MrBIOS samsongoddy: we can, either way is fine with me.
15:05 samsongoddy #start-meeting
15:05 meeting Meeting started Sun Dec  9 15:05:15 2018 UTC. The chair is samsongoddy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:05 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
15:06 samsongoddy I was having a quick chat with perrie yesterday that we need to make a better UX of the www-sugarlabs
15:06 Contents plays a very big role on it
15:06 perrie yeah, more like a rearrangement and restructuring of content
15:07 samsongoddy And fine something interesting for the users to play with
15:07 MrBIOS are either of you currently familiar with the Jekyll templating system we are currently using?
15:07 samsongoddy Yes
15:07 I am
15:07 It is good
15:07 MrBIOS ok, good, I am not, but it doesn’t seem that complex
15:07 perrie I am not familiar
15:07 samsongoddy I learnt it the hard way
15:07 lol
15:08 perrie lol
15:08 MrBIOS sometimes that’s the best way
15:08 samsongoddy https://jekyllrb.com/
15:08 perrie yeah MrBIOS
15:08 samsongoddy This is what I propose
15:08 Less contents
15:08 more actions
15:08 Something to interact with
15:08 Make TB and MB more visible
15:09 Like what Scratch.mit.edu
15:09 MrBIOS so, if we want to continue to just use Jekyll for now, check this out http://biasedbit.com/blog/ab-testing-jekyll-ga/
15:09 samsongoddy did with the Scratch
15:09 online
15:09 MrBIOS if both of you ahve not yet reviewed older iterations of the sugar labs website, I urge you to do that, via archive.org
15:10 samsongoddy I have
15:10 I saw the previous one
15:10 perrie I think bulk of our content can be on wiki, that work fine. so the site just goes straight to the point
15:10 me too
15:11 samsongoddy Yes
15:11 MrBIOS yes, keep the site simple, I agree.
15:11 samsongoddy https://scratch.mit.edu/
15:11 Let look at this
15:11 This is something I was thinking we do
15:11 MrBIOS it’s even possible to have the actual static website content be derived from a wiki page
15:12 which may have value for ease of editing, as well as permissions control
15:12 samsongoddy: check out https://github.com/panozzaj/HeapAB
15:13 also, https://medium.com/cacher-app/[…]ript-9f6a1774507e is a decent read
15:13 the Scratch site is good, the only issue I have with it is it does not explain what it is
15:13 samsongoddy So my question is
15:13 MrBIOS you have to already know that, which is bad :)
15:14 samsongoddy What do we do the current site
15:14 While working on the AB testing?
15:14 A/B
15:14 perrie for the a/b testing
15:15 we should have two versions of the sites
15:15 let's say a restructure of this current one
15:15 and a new ui & ux
15:15 maybe same color
15:16 MrBIOS here is what we had at the beginning of 2017: https://web.archive.org/web/20[…]ww.sugarlabs.org/
15:16 perrie then run the test with both
15:16 samsongoddy Yes, MrBIOS we can have something similar
15:17 As it is pretty simple
15:17 MrBIOS I personally think that the landing page content is superior in most ways, and is clear and simple to understand
15:17 we can re-use the images and written copy, there is no problem with that.
15:17 perrie +1
15:17 MrBIOS and just put it in to the existing templating engine
15:18 we also need to have a page to explain the differences between Sugar and Sugarizer, and what the relationship is
15:18 new visitors will be clueless about this
15:19 also, this page is simple and to the point https://web.archive.org/web/20[…]garlabs.org/more/
15:19 BRB, pouring more coffee
15:20 samsongoddy Perrie so what do you think?
15:20 I think we should start with a new UI/UX
15:20 first
15:21 MrBIOS keep in mind, the data from Google Analytics we have now shows that most visitors are only on the site for one and a half minutes
15:21 samsongoddy Yeah
15:21 That too
15:21 perrie I agree with MrBIOS
15:21 MrBIOS if we can get that to increase, even by just 15-30 seconds, we have something better
15:21 samsongoddy #action
15:21 MrBIOS even if it does not, it will still probably be better, just not necessarily having the desired effect
15:21 samsongoddy So what are the roadmap
15:21 So that we can have a plan
15:22 Since we have something already
15:22 I will do some reading
15:22 Thanks for the links MrBIOS
15:22 MrBIOS yes, check out the links above.
15:22 perrie so we will be working with 2 designs? to take stats of which works better for our audience?
15:22 MrBIOS this tool in particular looks useful for A+B testing, but we need to define the cases we want to test against https://github.com/Alephbet/alephbet
15:23 yes, and it is usually best to try and test small differences, not huge ones
15:23 navigation bar contents, etc
15:23 huge ones can really confuse repeat visitors
15:23 perrie yeah
15:23 MrBIOS there are whole books written on A+B testing, none of which I have read ;)
15:24 perrie lol
15:24 samsongoddy Same here
15:24 MrBIOS but I’ve been around it long enough as a systems administrator that I get the general idea and understand some of the pitfalls
15:24 perrie this is my first try on a/b testing
15:24 samsongoddy Same here
15:25 MrBIOS this is a good and fairly easy read about it and why you might want to use it http://circaedu.com/hemj/under[…]ue-of-ab-testing/
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15:26 MrBIOS since we didn’t have analytics data from before the website re-design, we can’t determine with certainty whether or not visitor time has increased or decreased
15:26 llaske: we missed you at the last SLOB meeting, what happened?
15:26 samsongoddy Well I think people were more interested in the sub domains
15:26 like
15:27 activities.sugarlabs.org
15:27 wiki.sugarlabs.org
15:28 https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/[…]r_support_Android.3F
15:28 Look at this
15:29 I think the new site or improve one should use this
15:29 MrBIOS samsongoddy: for starters, I propose we just set up a git repo clone of www-sugarlabs, and check out this repo in your public_html folder on sunjammer.
15:29 perrie yeah that's same as this: https://web.archive.org/web/20[…]garlabs.org/more/
15:29 MrBIOS then we can make all our changes in the fork
15:30 it’s important to note that there is probably a lot of replication of content between the website and the wiki at this time. We can’t eliminate all of it, since the wiki contains 10+ years of stuff
15:30 but we can chip away at it
15:30 samsongoddy what domain are we going to be using?
15:30 for testing?
15:31 MrBIOS samsongoddy: I will set something up more permanently later, working on that, but for now, we just use your public_html folder on sunjammer
15:31 samsongoddy Okay cool
15:31 MrBIOS so that would be https://people.sugarlabs.org/~samsongoddy/
15:31 samsongoddy Yes, Let me set it up
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15:32 MrBIOS I will have control of DNS and will set up a subdomain later.
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15:36 samsongoddy perrie comments from your side?
15:36 I just forked www-sugarlabs and I am cloning
15:37 perrie no i'm cool. I'll work with you on getting out the new structure of the site
15:39 MrBIOS right now, we have ~1000 sessions per week
15:39 samsongoddy That is low
15:39 MrBIOS and between 130-180 per day
15:39 yep
15:39 but it’s important to understand that that is the existing baseline
15:39 samsongoddy +1
15:39 If we are also working on the site
15:39 perrie yeah
15:39 samsongoddy they should be plan for marketing
15:40 if possible a budget
15:40 To get people to the site
15:40 MrBIOS yes, we can discuss that after the next board is seated
15:40 I think we have to have something we are confident in before we make that sort of decision, though.
15:41 samsongoddy Sure
15:41 MrBIOS right now, all of the traffic is presumably 100% organic
15:41 samsongoddy Yes
15:41 they are
15:43 I am uploading to sunjammer
15:43 MrBIOS great
15:44 we need to locate where the old webpage content is
15:44 other than just archive.org
15:44 samsongoddy I think the are in the same repository
15:44 maybe git log
15:45 perrie yeah, should be there
15:45 samsongoddy https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugarlabs.github.io
15:45 Why not use this?
15:45 instead for testing?
15:46 https://sugarlabs.github.io/
15:47 MrBIOS what do you think ?
15:47 MrBIOS so the “new” website went live between November 5th and 8th lf last year.
15:47 samsongoddy I think yes
15:47 MrBIOS if we can make it meet our needs, sure, but it definitely gives us less direct control over things like server side config, since there is none
15:48 samsongoddy Okay let stick with sunjammer
15:48 MrBIOS for instance, one thing you lose is web log access
15:49 it would be helpful to know how many people are visiting the test side, besides those of us working on it
15:49 site
15:49 so it’s been just over 13 months since the new site launched
15:49 samsongoddy Yes, not that old
15:51 MrBIOS according to google analytics, in the last year, our session duration is down 30% over last year
15:51 but that may not be accurate
15:52 okay, yes, I have confirmed we have no anayltics data prior to the launch of the new website
15:52 we may have web logs though
15:53 samsongoddy http://people.sugarlabs.org/samsongoddy/
15:53 I have uploaded to the public_html
15:53 but I can find it
15:53 *can't
15:54 MrBIOS where did you put it, at the filesystem level?
15:54 perrie can't find it either
15:54 samsongoddy samsongoddy@sunjammer:~/public_html
15:54 MrBIOS I see it, if I visit http://people.sugarlabs.org/sa[…]dy/www-sugarlabs/ I get an internal server error
15:54 let me look at the logs
15:58 oh, the page content needs to be generated.
15:58 that content is not actual/pure HTML
15:58 samsongoddy yes
15:58 One minute
15:58 Let me see
15:58 So I will have to upload the version with pure html
16:00 MrBIOS either that, or you simply generate the content with jekyll from the command line
16:01 samsongoddy I don't think I can do that in sunjammer
16:01 Since the server don't have ruby
16:03 MrBIOS we can fix that
16:03 or at least I can
16:04 perrie :)
16:04 MrBIOS there, installed.
16:05 samsongoddy installing budler
16:05 now
16:09 i am uploading the pure html version I generated from my local
16:10 perrie awesome
16:14 MrBIOS samsongoddy: bundle exec jekyll serve --host --incremental;
16:15 if you do that on sunjammer, you’ll be able to access it temporarily at http://sunjammer.sugarlabs.org:4000/
16:15 mine is running there now
16:15 samsongoddy Awesome
16:19 MrBIOS I really don’t like the “Check out the remaining hundreds of activities!” either
16:19 that makes it sound like there used to be way more, which is probably technically true
16:19 but..very bad phrasing
16:20 samsongoddy can you see a folder called sugarlabs on my sunjammer
16:20 that is the pure css
16:20 something we can easily edit
16:20 perrie no
16:20 not seeing the folder
16:21 samsongoddy Yes, because I am not sure why it isn't showing
16:21 at people.sugarlabs.org
16:22 MrBIOS do you have an idea?
16:26 MrBIOS samsongoddy: I honestly do not, but if you manually navigate to that URL, does it work?
16:26 samsongoddy Conversion error: Jekyll::Converters::Scss encountered an error while converting 'assets/css/style.scss':
16:26                    Invalid US-ASCII character "\xE2" on line 5
16:26 jekyll 3.7.4 | Error:  Invalid US-ASCII character "\xE2" on line 5
16:26 MrBIOS I didn’t get that error, oddly
16:27 samsongoddy bundle exec jekyll serve --host --incremental;
16:27 I tried running that
16:27 I got that error
16:27 This file contain the pure website
16:27 http://people.sugarlabs.org/sa[…]ngoddy/sugarlabs/
16:27 which Jekyll on it
16:27 MrBIOS samsongoddy: https://people.sugarlabs.org/~[…]dy/www-sugarlabs/
16:27 ah ok
16:28 try removing everything and checking out again
16:28 it worked fine for me=\
16:28 samsongoddy: it’s a unicode character handling error it seems https://github.com/csswizardry[…]it.css/issues/270
16:29 I am probably using a newer ruby component
16:29 which is why it’s not happening
16:29 samsongoddy Okay seems like yours is working
16:29 http://sunjammer.sugarlabs.org:4000/
16:29 MrBIOS Just add this line to top of config.rb:
16:29 samsongoddy Let use this
16:29 MrBIOS Encoding.default_external = "utf-8"
16:29 do that
16:30 and then re-attempt the failed command, it should work
16:31 samsongoddy Where did you see this file config.rb?
16:31 Because I can't find it
16:33 MrBIOS one sec
16:36 samsongoddy: see https://github.com/csswizardry[…]it.css/issues/270
16:36 it doesn’t seem to exist
16:36 I also can’t find the file assets/css/style.scss
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16:37 samsongoddy So what should we do?
16:38 https://people.sugarlabs.org/~[…]ngoddy/sugarlabs/
16:38 Because even the pure html isn't displaying well
16:40 MrBIOS yeah thats just because of the template generation failure
16:40 due to the aforementioned error
16:41 samsongoddy This is might cause issues with the A\B testing
16:41 MrBIOS no, it’s easy to fix
16:43 it’s just a character encoding bug that was fixed in 2015, see issue 270 above
16:44 samsongoddy: just run ‘bundle install’ from your CLI and let it churn
16:45 samsongoddy I need to use sudo
16:45 Following files may not be writable, so sudo is needed:
16:45  /usr/local/bin
16:45  /var/lib/gems/2.3.0
16:45  /var/lib/gems/2.3.0/build_info
16:45  /var/lib/gems/2.3.0/cache
16:45  /var/lib/gems/2.3.0/doc
16:45  /var/lib/gems/2.3.0/extensions
16:45  /var/lib/gems/2.3.0/gems
16:45  /var/lib/gems/2.3.0/specifications
16:48 MrBIOS samsongoddy: I didn’t need to
16:48 log out and back in to sunjammer
16:48 once you do, what’s the output you get when you run "bundle install"
16:48 exactly
16:48 pastebin it
16:56 samsongoddy https://paste.fedoraproject.or[…]is0Umkcmp2nbfVRoQ
16:56 I am still getting same error
16:56 MrBIOS okay, I am going to try testing this as your user
16:58 samsongoddy: I ran “bundle exec jekyll serve --host --incremental &” as your user and it worked fine
16:59 samsongoddy Conversion error: Jekyll::Converters::Scss encountered an error while converting 'assets/css/style.scss':
16:59                    Invalid US-ASCII character "\xE2" on line 5
16:59 jekyll 3.7.4 | Error:  Invalid US-ASCII character "\xE2" on line 5
16:59 Getting this erroe
16:59 MrBIOS show me full context
16:59 just pasting error lines is not really helpful
16:59 pastebin it
17:00 samsongoddy https://paste.fedoraproject.or[…]Cwzmb~Pz4x0FRAwig
17:01 MrBIOS there are two jekyll gems installed
17:01 did you log out and back in by chance?
17:01 you must be using the older gem
17:02 jekyll-3.7.4
17:02 samsongoddy Yes, I did logout and login again
17:03 MrBIOS okay, I just removed the older jekyll gem from sunjammer
17:03 try again
17:05 samsongoddy https://paste.fedoraproject.or[…]FxoimDBpwabA3fT~g
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17:07 MrBIOS it shouldn’t be trying to use jekyll-3.7.4
17:07 that is the problem
17:07 that’s the version with the bug in the style.scss file
17:09 samsongoddy Let me update it
17:10 #end-meeting
17:10 meeting Meeting ended Sun Dec  9 17:10:26 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
17:10 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-09T15:05:15.html
17:10 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]18-12-09T15:05:15
17:10 samsongoddy I will be back in 30 minutes
17:10 MrBIOS ok
17:10 samsongoddy I want to get something to eat
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17:13 MrBIOS no problem
17:24 perrie <perrie!~perrie@> has joined #sugar-meeting
17:25 perrie sorry went off a bit
17:36 MrBIOS no worries
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